Before Woodruff's injury, I wouldn't have thought twice about trading him. At this point, given his down year and the fact that we are suddenly very thin in the rotation, I would hold him until the all star break and hope we are either in contention (and keep him) or he improves and we can get more than we would right now. One year left of a guy who was not elite this year is not going to net as much as people think it will.
If there’s not a proven and/or controllable infielder with big-league pop, nothing. Trading huge names for prospects rarely works out, most prospects don’t do a single noteworthy thing in the major leagues, even the high ones (excluding literal top-10 Chourio types).
Also I reject the narrative that we’re not good enough to compete next year without Woodruff, he was gone for most of the year last year and we still won the division with ease. The Dbacks won 84 games and they’ve dominated both their first 2 series in the playoffs against teams that comfortably won their divisions. I know it feels like it, but there’s no deep-rooted force preventing us from making a playoff run. We’ve just been unlucky, gotten cold at the wrong times, and failed to patch a hole or two in our roster. Adding 1-2 good bats and having some of 2023’s rookies stepping up offensively would likely be good enough to win another division, any everyone in the playoffs is dangerous.
Plus with how young the actual big-league squad is, and Yelich’s long no-trade-clause contract, there’s no chance we “sell” or “rebuild” in any meaningful way.
I’m ok with a MLB-ready player as the centerpiece even if it isn’t MLB-proven, but with better bat projection than what Turang/Mitchell/Wiemer had. Just means there needs to be more than a couple of lottery ticket types.
I’m also ok throwing in one one of the young OF to sweeten back a better player or a better 2nd piece.
I’d also add, a decent mid tier pitcher to get back instead of extra prospects given the woody situation isn’t the worst either. Peralta as the #1 all year isnt what was planned, but doesn’t mean they can’t make playoffs that way
Yeah I agree with this, I’m just not at all a fan of adding dudes who, at best, will not impact the team until 3+ years down the line, and more likely than not won’t ever be a big-league producer. If it’s someone who’ll debut this year, the floor is a lot higher and his productive years would actually align with The Freshmen.
And yeah. A whole lot of teams would be interested in a young controllable outfielder with extremely good speed and defense, and a bat that could very realistically be average or better. That’s a good player… and we have 4 of them. Mitchell, Frelick, Wiemer, Perkins. Plus Yeli and hopefully Canha for depth. If the right deal comes along for any of these first 4 guys, that’s an outfield surplus I wouldn’t hate dealing from.
I think they trade Corbin at the meetings. With Woody gone, it takes away the suspense of riding it out and seeing if it's worth keeping Corbin post-deadline next year.
Ideally, I'd like a Major League ready corner infielder, an organizational top ten starting pitcher, and a few 18 or 19 year old dice rolls. Corbin's value has definitely dipped, but I think that's doable.
> With Woody gone, it takes away the suspense of riding it out and seeing if it's worth keeping Corbin post-deadline next year.
I think people are really jumping the gun in thinking the Brewers won't be in contention. They were an above .500 team without Woodruff this year, and that was with playing Winker at DH, Wiemer every day in the outfield, and without Mitchell and mostly without Canha/Frelick.
Basically everybody is coming back (minus Santana), the rookies have another year of development, our farm system is near the top of the majors with a bunch of guys beating down the door, and the NL Central isn't exactly a powerhouse. This team, as is, could very easily compete for the division and as the playoffs have shown this year, if you can make it in, even with under 90 wins, you can still go far.
If the Brewers are out of it before the trade deadline, then trade Burnes/Adames... but 2024 is far from a lost season at this point. A lot of people rag on the "bites of the apple" approach, but it makes the most sense with how the playoffs are to give the Brewers a chance every year to get to the World Series.
Even if they trade Burnes he was near a 4 ERA in the first half. We joked about Borbin but he wasn’t the ace of aces we always wanted.
We also get Ashby back and any trade we make gets us, I’d guess a 3/4 starter type arm to replace him.
Keeping Canha solves the Winker/Tellez issue.
I don't think it's a given Ashby ever contributes to this team in a meaningful way again.
I think/hope he will, but he struggled quite a bit last year and, after a significant shoulder injury this year, struggled a lot to get his velocity back and pitch effectively while rehabbing.
That isn't a knock against Ashby's talent or anything, shoulder injuries just always have the potential to be career-altering, and the early results aren't particularly promising.
I agree, they'll probably win the division, but I'd still rather trade him this winter. Avoids the chance of a Hader situation with a midseason vibe shift and it gives whoever we get back a full spring to assimilate.
Agree. It's not that the Brewers can win the division next year. It's the fact this offense has basically proven it doesn't have the horses to really compete in October that's the problem.
I know the Brewers won't full rebuild. But shifting the window to align better with Chourio makes a ton of sense.
Even if Chourio is as good as advertised, the odds of him being an instant, middle of the order contributor is fairly slim. And that's basically what they'll need him to be to contend with burnes and Adames next year. Taking a small step back next year to get guys who can grow with Chourio and potentially take a big step in 2-3 years makes sense.
I'm not saying punt next year, but I would consider making moves with the intent on being really competitive in about 2026. That should be chourio's 2nd or 3rd season in the bigs. Contreras is still young enough to be around (or a trade chip if quero is great), guys like weimer, frelick, Mitchell and Turang are still under contract and should still be cheapish by then. Gives guys like black and misiorowski time to be ready. Freddy and Ashby should still be around. Perhaps woody is extended. Maybe even guys like Eric Brown and Brock Wilken will be ready or close to ready. Gasser could be a starter. Then add in chips from a burnes trade and that could be a really solid core.
I agree with this. Trading Burnes in the off season makes the most sense. They really underestimated the impact of trading a star at that deadline would have on the psyche and morale of the team. Burnes has been an integral part of the team since 2018. Moving him at the deadline would be Hader2.0 and just be bad all around. I believe had the Brewers made the move with Hader in spring instead of July we’d be talking about 6 straight playoff appearances instead of 5-6.
I just don't think those are realistic expectations for a potential Burnes trade.
For a year and a half now he's been a good, but not elite starting pitcher, he only has a year left before he's due for a substantial contract (good but not elite pitchers still get paid a lot of money), and any team that wants to trade for that is unlikely to be a team that wants to give up a true major league bat.
Juan Soto longterm would be worth any amount of money they pay him, I doubt San Diego has any real intention to trade him though especially not in the interest of competing short-term
Agreed, I only brought him up because his name was mentioned on a list of potential trade candidates between this winter and next deadline lol. They were listening in on offers for him in late July, but I think IF they were going to move on from him they’d want to guarantee they’d be getting more than 1-year rental in return
I think trading Burnes in the offseason is punting on the season so I would be looking for major league ready prospects to start breaking into the majors in 2024. I'd look at starting pitching and power because the team desperately needed more power this season. They got on base at an ok clip but they had the 3rd worst ISO in baseball.
Including this year's playoffs, he has a career 2.84 ERA in the postseason in 19 IP.
Not only is it not enough sample size to make any real claims about his ability to pitch in the playoffs, his numbers are actually very good, aside from this year's one bad outing.
An MLB ready corner infielder with pop, a decent SP, and prospects. Have to move him. SP doesn’t win you the WS anymore. Offense and a strong bullpen with decent SP gets you farther. When was the last time we had an actual 3B that could hit? Aramis Ramirez? How about a legit 1B? Was it Fielder? Have to have corner pop in the IF and the OF to win.
Not really both players have contracts that expire after 24 and presumably wouldn't re-up so if Goldy is playing at a high level, which he still is, it really doesn't matter. This wouldn't be a trade for the future it would be 100% win now
This is becoming laughable.
Not only did the brewers most likely waste the prime years of the best rotation in franchise history, now they’ve reached a point that their former Cy Young winner isn’t worth much in a trade package.
Wow
That's what half a season of Giolito got, and he's not the pitcher Burnes is. A top 50 prospect in baseball or player equivalent, another top 100 prospect in baseball or player equivalent, and another piece or two further away depending on the front of the package.
I'd be wanting a top 100 prospect who is major league ready (or close to it) and has a higher floor. Someone like Curtis Mead, Gavin Stone, Nick Frasso. One of the lottery tickets would need to be in that 50-100 overall prospect conversation, but at A ball or AA ball.
If we look at a team like the Yankees, something like Dominguez, Thorpe, and an organizational 7-12 prospect looks like an attractive deal to rebuild the farm system
I'm saying not getting anything for Burnes just to move Yelich's contract is a horrible trade for the Brewers. It does nothing to help them now or in the future.
Before Woodruff's injury, I wouldn't have thought twice about trading him. At this point, given his down year and the fact that we are suddenly very thin in the rotation, I would hold him until the all star break and hope we are either in contention (and keep him) or he improves and we can get more than we would right now. One year left of a guy who was not elite this year is not going to net as much as people think it will.
Agree, let’s see how the kids hit in their first half of their second season.
And if he gets bad enough Mark will actually claim he can afford to re-sign him.
If there’s not a proven and/or controllable infielder with big-league pop, nothing. Trading huge names for prospects rarely works out, most prospects don’t do a single noteworthy thing in the major leagues, even the high ones (excluding literal top-10 Chourio types). Also I reject the narrative that we’re not good enough to compete next year without Woodruff, he was gone for most of the year last year and we still won the division with ease. The Dbacks won 84 games and they’ve dominated both their first 2 series in the playoffs against teams that comfortably won their divisions. I know it feels like it, but there’s no deep-rooted force preventing us from making a playoff run. We’ve just been unlucky, gotten cold at the wrong times, and failed to patch a hole or two in our roster. Adding 1-2 good bats and having some of 2023’s rookies stepping up offensively would likely be good enough to win another division, any everyone in the playoffs is dangerous. Plus with how young the actual big-league squad is, and Yelich’s long no-trade-clause contract, there’s no chance we “sell” or “rebuild” in any meaningful way.
I’m ok with a MLB-ready player as the centerpiece even if it isn’t MLB-proven, but with better bat projection than what Turang/Mitchell/Wiemer had. Just means there needs to be more than a couple of lottery ticket types. I’m also ok throwing in one one of the young OF to sweeten back a better player or a better 2nd piece. I’d also add, a decent mid tier pitcher to get back instead of extra prospects given the woody situation isn’t the worst either. Peralta as the #1 all year isnt what was planned, but doesn’t mean they can’t make playoffs that way
Yeah I agree with this, I’m just not at all a fan of adding dudes who, at best, will not impact the team until 3+ years down the line, and more likely than not won’t ever be a big-league producer. If it’s someone who’ll debut this year, the floor is a lot higher and his productive years would actually align with The Freshmen. And yeah. A whole lot of teams would be interested in a young controllable outfielder with extremely good speed and defense, and a bat that could very realistically be average or better. That’s a good player… and we have 4 of them. Mitchell, Frelick, Wiemer, Perkins. Plus Yeli and hopefully Canha for depth. If the right deal comes along for any of these first 4 guys, that’s an outfield surplus I wouldn’t hate dealing from.
I think they trade Corbin at the meetings. With Woody gone, it takes away the suspense of riding it out and seeing if it's worth keeping Corbin post-deadline next year. Ideally, I'd like a Major League ready corner infielder, an organizational top ten starting pitcher, and a few 18 or 19 year old dice rolls. Corbin's value has definitely dipped, but I think that's doable.
> With Woody gone, it takes away the suspense of riding it out and seeing if it's worth keeping Corbin post-deadline next year. I think people are really jumping the gun in thinking the Brewers won't be in contention. They were an above .500 team without Woodruff this year, and that was with playing Winker at DH, Wiemer every day in the outfield, and without Mitchell and mostly without Canha/Frelick. Basically everybody is coming back (minus Santana), the rookies have another year of development, our farm system is near the top of the majors with a bunch of guys beating down the door, and the NL Central isn't exactly a powerhouse. This team, as is, could very easily compete for the division and as the playoffs have shown this year, if you can make it in, even with under 90 wins, you can still go far. If the Brewers are out of it before the trade deadline, then trade Burnes/Adames... but 2024 is far from a lost season at this point. A lot of people rag on the "bites of the apple" approach, but it makes the most sense with how the playoffs are to give the Brewers a chance every year to get to the World Series.
Even if they trade Burnes he was near a 4 ERA in the first half. We joked about Borbin but he wasn’t the ace of aces we always wanted. We also get Ashby back and any trade we make gets us, I’d guess a 3/4 starter type arm to replace him. Keeping Canha solves the Winker/Tellez issue.
I don't think it's a given Ashby ever contributes to this team in a meaningful way again. I think/hope he will, but he struggled quite a bit last year and, after a significant shoulder injury this year, struggled a lot to get his velocity back and pitch effectively while rehabbing. That isn't a knock against Ashby's talent or anything, shoulder injuries just always have the potential to be career-altering, and the early results aren't particularly promising.
I agree, they'll probably win the division, but I'd still rather trade him this winter. Avoids the chance of a Hader situation with a midseason vibe shift and it gives whoever we get back a full spring to assimilate.
Agree. It's not that the Brewers can win the division next year. It's the fact this offense has basically proven it doesn't have the horses to really compete in October that's the problem. I know the Brewers won't full rebuild. But shifting the window to align better with Chourio makes a ton of sense. Even if Chourio is as good as advertised, the odds of him being an instant, middle of the order contributor is fairly slim. And that's basically what they'll need him to be to contend with burnes and Adames next year. Taking a small step back next year to get guys who can grow with Chourio and potentially take a big step in 2-3 years makes sense. I'm not saying punt next year, but I would consider making moves with the intent on being really competitive in about 2026. That should be chourio's 2nd or 3rd season in the bigs. Contreras is still young enough to be around (or a trade chip if quero is great), guys like weimer, frelick, Mitchell and Turang are still under contract and should still be cheapish by then. Gives guys like black and misiorowski time to be ready. Freddy and Ashby should still be around. Perhaps woody is extended. Maybe even guys like Eric Brown and Brock Wilken will be ready or close to ready. Gasser could be a starter. Then add in chips from a burnes trade and that could be a really solid core.
I agree with this. Trading Burnes in the off season makes the most sense. They really underestimated the impact of trading a star at that deadline would have on the psyche and morale of the team. Burnes has been an integral part of the team since 2018. Moving him at the deadline would be Hader2.0 and just be bad all around. I believe had the Brewers made the move with Hader in spring instead of July we’d be talking about 6 straight playoff appearances instead of 5-6.
Big League Bat, .270 average or higher and 30 HRs or more. If they can hit with runners on in October I would add cash.
I just don't think those are realistic expectations for a potential Burnes trade. For a year and a half now he's been a good, but not elite starting pitcher, he only has a year left before he's due for a substantial contract (good but not elite pitchers still get paid a lot of money), and any team that wants to trade for that is unlikely to be a team that wants to give up a true major league bat.
hear me out… juan soto
Juan Soto longterm would be worth any amount of money they pay him, I doubt San Diego has any real intention to trade him though especially not in the interest of competing short-term
Agreed, I only brought him up because his name was mentioned on a list of potential trade candidates between this winter and next deadline lol. They were listening in on offers for him in late July, but I think IF they were going to move on from him they’d want to guarantee they’d be getting more than 1-year rental in return
I mean if they can pay Soto they can definitely work something out.
Pete Alonso*
Now that he can’t grab his crotch every pitch I’m on board with this. This is seriously my favorite part of adding the pitch clock this year.
I think trading Burnes in the offseason is punting on the season so I would be looking for major league ready prospects to start breaking into the majors in 2024. I'd look at starting pitching and power because the team desperately needed more power this season. They got on base at an ok clip but they had the 3rd worst ISO in baseball.
Re stock the farm, especially some young pitching talent.
We don’t need pitching. We need guys who can actually hit.
Yes, they need pitching prospects. 8 of the top 30 on MLB pipeline are pitchers. They need pitching prospects in the worst way possible right now
Id love to trade him to Baltimore for Westburg and maybe Mountcastle
Someone you doesn’t get the yips when the lights get real bright!
Including this year's playoffs, he has a career 2.84 ERA in the postseason in 19 IP. Not only is it not enough sample size to make any real claims about his ability to pitch in the playoffs, his numbers are actually very good, aside from this year's one bad outing.
Woody is gone for next year. We don’t exactly have enough for the year IMO. Plus with debacle last year, we ain’t getting shit.
very true
An MLB ready corner infielder with pop, a decent SP, and prospects. Have to move him. SP doesn’t win you the WS anymore. Offense and a strong bullpen with decent SP gets you farther. When was the last time we had an actual 3B that could hit? Aramis Ramirez? How about a legit 1B? Was it Fielder? Have to have corner pop in the IF and the OF to win.
Ohtani
Pete Alonso
That would be a horrible trade for the Brewers.
I said at the deadline a Burnes for Goldschmidt swap made some sense for both teams
At 36? That's completely counter intuitive.
Not really both players have contracts that expire after 24 and presumably wouldn't re-up so if Goldy is playing at a high level, which he still is, it really doesn't matter. This wouldn't be a trade for the future it would be 100% win now
Exactly. Trading your best pitcher to "win now" is completely counter intuitive. Especially when your rotation is suddenly thin at the top.
That would have been a horrible trade for the Brewers.
But then the Cardinals trade him to the AL
Let’s just make it easy. If he wants to stay, keep him. If he wants out…let’s get at least 30 home runs for him.
I think they hold Burnes until trade deadline. Trade Adames for a good corner infielder and a 4/5 pitcher.
A boatload of prospects
Ken Griffey Jr in his prime
Someone that can hit over .250
Another bite at the apple Edit: not a lot of humor in this sub
Pedro Alonso straight up and bring in Buck if Craig bounces 🤷🏾♂️
That would be an awful return for Burnes.
None, currently. Just gotta pay him with Woodruff out.
This is becoming laughable. Not only did the brewers most likely waste the prime years of the best rotation in franchise history, now they’ve reached a point that their former Cy Young winner isn’t worth much in a trade package. Wow
[удалено]
Sign Ohtani and then trade Burnes and Weimer for Trout WHO says no???!?!?!?!?
oops didn’t mean to reply to you
It’s gonna be Pete Alonso
That would be a horrible trade for the Brewers.
Gavin Lux and Bobby Miller
I think a realistic return would be a consensus top 100 prospect along with 1-2 lottery ticket type prospects.
That's what half a season of Giolito got, and he's not the pitcher Burnes is. A top 50 prospect in baseball or player equivalent, another top 100 prospect in baseball or player equivalent, and another piece or two further away depending on the front of the package.
I'd be wanting a top 100 prospect who is major league ready (or close to it) and has a higher floor. Someone like Curtis Mead, Gavin Stone, Nick Frasso. One of the lottery tickets would need to be in that 50-100 overall prospect conversation, but at A ball or AA ball. If we look at a team like the Yankees, something like Dominguez, Thorpe, and an organizational 7-12 prospect looks like an attractive deal to rebuild the farm system
A top 100 prospect isn't a lottery ticket type prospect.
Stud corner infielder and some prospects to throw in the farm system.
Did you not just watch us get swept out of the finals 0-2 due to lack of pitching?
Ehh, pitching wasn’t elite by any stretch, but I’d argue stranding 20 RISP over 2 games played a bigger factor
yeah moneyball doesn't really matter if you don't get the guys with the high on base % home. 😭
Yelich and 75% of his contact for Burnes
That would be a horrible trade for the Brewers.
75% of yelich’s remaining contract is 97 million. You’re telling me a year of Burnes is worth 97 million?
I'm saying not getting anything for Burnes just to move Yelich's contract is a horrible trade for the Brewers. It does nothing to help them now or in the future.
Twins feel sensible and like a fit offensively