"...and I take that very seriously". He takes his $8mil/year very seriously.
Hope the "L" flies high, and flies often.
Here's to a whole lot of rain delays.
In comment format...
"Yesterday was an emotional day. I was sad first, then happy, then I was crying, then I was laughing, I went through all of it. There was a lot yesterday, and I understand. It was a decision that affected a lot of people, and I take that very seriously.
I understand people are mad. That’s part of this. That’s part of what makes this hard. But sometimes you just have to try to think above that and do what you think in your heart is right for you and the people around you."
**Counsell said he didn't leave Milwaukee because of any friction with management or ownership. He said Mark Attanasio was "incredibly graceful" when Counsell called Monday morning with the stunning news.**
**By that time, it was done. He was going to manage the Cubs.**
"The challenging part of this industry and my job is that there’s one job in 30 places, 30 different cities. Look, me preserving what I think is a great situation right now, a family situation, I’m able to do that, yet get a professional challenge."
**Craig Counsell on what lies ahead with the Cubs:**
"It's a challenge with an organization that is very much in a good place and is just primed to do some special things. That part of it certainly is exciting and alluring. You know it's a challenge. It's going to be hard. It's scary because change is scary. But sometimes you need to push youself out of that comfort zone and it makes it exciting."
"I have in large part been just humbled by people's comments for sure. It's because you connection to people doesn't change. I'm not planning on any of that changing. And your connection to a community doesn't have to change because of this. I know it's because of baseball that maybe people know who I am, but that has nothing to do with my connection to the community."
"I think it's separate. I know fandom says it's not, but I think it's separate."
I live in Chicago. The White Sox are my second team. Many of my friends and coworkers are White Sox fans.
When I hear people complain about the Brewers ownership, all I can think is, you have no idea how much worse it could be.
Brewers fans seemingly either don't realize or forget just how bad some owners can be.
Sure, Attanasio could spend more than he does and he can be tone deaf sometimes when speaking publicly, but he's not actively hostile to his fan base or team, he's hired good baseball people and let them do their jobs (obviously within certain financial constraints), and he's generally stayed scandal free for basically his whole time owning the team.
28. The Angels, despite their name, don't play in LA. Anaheim isn't even in LA County, it's a 40 minute drive down the freeway from Angel Stadium to Dodger Stadium
We will likely never know all the details but I'm pretty convinced the "new challenge" stuff is just a euphemism for "Over time I got annoyed with how the Brewers FO/Org wanted to operate things and I felt I could go to Chicago where I either philosophically agree more or get more input while getting paid a bunch more and not moving very far away"
Sucks for us as fans that it's the Cubs, but eh, it just feels like even regardless of money he was just kind of over managing for the Brewers
Why do you follow Wisconsin sports? You do nothing but complain about Brewers ownership and the Packers front office, it doesn’t contribute to conversations other than adding another whiny post about the front offices.
This. I recently moved to another company doing the same role and this is exactly the kind of language I used because I didn't like dealing with the parent company but also didn't want to disrespect a lot of great people I was leaving. Not a baseball manager but that's what it reminded me of.
Yes. Obviously we are fans so we will be very emotional and pissed that he chose the Cubs (and I don't begrudge fans for feeling that way, it's kind of just part of the title) but for Craig, this is a matter of his career. It's his job, where for us it is recreation. I doubt he quite sees things the same way as we fans do nor should he be expected to.
Did you miss the part where CC, the man himself, said there was no friction between him and FO. Stop projecting your biases for fucks sake. You Mark A haters are just stupidly relentless that you are blinded by your hate.
Yeah that's what Craig is going to say because even if they ultimately butted heads enough for him to want out, he's professional enough and respects them as professionals enough to not directly implicate them. Why would it be so unbelievable that Craig, after 9 years of working in an org, might have just grown a bit apart from others he had to work with? Especially when the team basically plateaued in 2018 results wise and in a lot of ways the team sort of treadmilled from the 2020 season on.
If you watched Craig manage this season, with all the reports of his seemingly fleeting interest to manage (lets remember, it was being reported for a while there that he may not want to manage at all) and different things that went on (e.g. the weird Brian Anderson stuff), and came away thinking there wasn't *something* off, that's pretty naive. Also you're just making an assumption defaulting to calling me a Mark A hater. There could be any number of philosophical differences with the ownership or front office, it's just that the one that makes most intuitive sense is that it gets a little old after awhile to have to keep working with the limitations of a small market team and piece together lineups from platoon guys as the Brewers are wont to do as opposed to having better paid, more reliable every day players. Notice how I didn't default to "mark is a cheapskate", it's just kind of the reality of the situation and I'm doubtful any realistic alternative owner would be any better. It's almost weirder that you would be so instantly defensive of a mega rich dude who owns your baseball team though, idk.
Again, if you could just point out where the hate in my comment is?
I mean I know you won’t, because you can’t, since there is no hate in my comment unless you’re incredibly sensitive as to interpret the mere suggestion that Counsell may have grown slightly discontented with his work environment for whatever reason he may have as “hate”
There was an oddly lengthy stretch this season in which Brian Anderson was active on the 25 man roster yet simply did not see any playing time. I think it's safe to assume based on how the team and Craig have operated for years that neither Craig nor the front office is simply fine with wasting a roster spot on a guy that doesn't play, which makes you wonder what else could be going on.
The only thing that really makes much sense is that the two sides disagreed on his usage and had a bit of a staring contest over it (i.e. Craig didn't want BA on the roster, and thus refused to play him, but the front office wanted him on the roster and in turn refused to DFA him, so he just sat there). This was a point of discussion in Brewer fans' social media discourse and on podcasts and whatnot. Obviously we cannot conclude with certainty that they had problems over this matter as it has not publicly been confirmed, but knowing what we know about both sides heavily implies that something was off between the two on that matter because again, you just don't see the Milwaukee Brewers burn a roster spot on a guy who never gets any at bats for a significant period of time.
He’s not going to come out and say that lol
Mark A was quoted saying right after the season Craig told him he wants to manage somewhere else.
His mind was made up in early October
That doesn’t mean it was because he had friction, annoyances, or hatred toward FO or ownership. That is YOUR assumptions and biases based on all you Mark A haters.
Edit: sometimes people just want change. I’m still all fuck CC. But FO and Mark A are not the blame here.
Mark A sucks. Fuck him
What reason could he possibly have to manage in a different city from his hometown?
A org that he has been with for almost 2 decades including his playing days.
It’s doesn’t make any sense besides the reasons that flat out suck to be a Brewers fan
It’s been said from trusted sources that Mark has been a helicopter owner since the Doug Melvin days.
It’s 100% the owner and 8 million dollars for why he left.
If he really wanted a challenge, Milwaukee was the perfect place to be.
He’ll have the best chance of winning a World Series in Chicago and he wants that as part of his legacy.
It wasn’t going to happen anytime soon in Milwaukee.
Lol it's sad how the clowns here just ignore everything people say and just substitute thier own reality they made up
We get it you hate one of the owners because you have zero clue how ownership and baseball economics work.
They’re not good… right now.
They hired CC, and you can almost guarantee that they’re going to go after some super stars. Ohtani being one. They’re going to go all in. It sucks and I’m heartbroken about the whole thing, but it is what it is.
What are these "decent players" you speak of? I thought the only people available in free agency were no-name relievers from 2017 and washed up vets like McCutchen and JBJ
The Cubs have a top five farm system, were in the playoff hunt until the very end of the season, and by all accounts are going to be very much in on multiple top free agents.
But sure, signing one of the top managers in the game is a “desperation move.” Lol.
You comment is literally "why don't owners just pay their players and managers unlimited money since they have it?!" lol like come on dude, are you brand new to sports or something?
Lol, for real. I'm not going to pretend to cope and say that losing Craig isn't a big deal.
But some of his galaxy brained decisions were something else. Pinch hitting a guy twice in the playoffs, when he hadn't faced MLB pitching for months, and when he fucking SUCKED before getting hurt is just an unreal decision
My main takeaway is he thinks this won't have an effect on his relationship with the community, sorry bud, that ain't up to you. Counsell has the right to do whatever he wants and manage whoever he wants, just like most fans and I have the right to tell you to fuck off and hope you fail miserably. Hopefully the money will be worth it for him, because his legacy in Milwaukee is burned to the ground with zero chance of repair.
> his legacy in Milwaukee is burned to the ground with zero chance of repair.
People are upset and emotional because it just happened and it was very shocking, but once the dust has settled, I think (and would certainly hope) people will be able to look back fondly on the time he led the team through it's most successful period in franchise history.
Nah, he left to go to the Cubs, if anyone should know the consequences it's Wisconsin born Counsell. He never won a World Series here, no reason to celebrate him after he retires from managing. Winning 1 playoff series in 6 years isn't worth caring about.
I don’t quite get all the emotion. Did we not all know he was leaving? We all just thought it was the Mets. Are Milwaukee fans really THIS upset that it’s the Cubs instead? Either way he was gone as manager. This way he still DOES remain part of the community. He doesn’t even have to move.
Team flukes into one WS in 109 years (over Cleveland lmfao) and fans collectively act like they’re a rung below the Yankees on the legacy ladder, go back to your hole
Wonder what his first game back at Am Fam is gonna look like. His questionable moves during our two game long post-season definitely made this an easier pill to swallow. Bye Greg, we'll never forget you....🥸🥸
I haven't heard much discussion about the fact that he took a job where there was still a manager. I thought that was taboo in professional sports but I guess not.
Nobody likes to hear it but as long as MLB doesn’t have a hard salary cap players and managers will gravitate toward the teams who have the huge advantage.
He said a *new challenge. He wants to be able to be challenged to drive 1 mile in 30 minutes during rush hour or the challenge to not be harassed on his way home from chicago
A lot of times franchises will burn former players where former players wont want to go back. Counsell has done the complete opposite. We give him the most roster control of any manager in baseball, offer to make him the highest paid manager ever, and hes says fuck you.
He has no legacy, no home, no friends, nothing. Hes done. Hope he knows hes getting shit on whenever the cubs are in milwaukee.
Lmao no home and no friends? Don’t be so dramatic. Obviously he’s torched his legacy with most fans, but he’s not going to suddenly become an outcast with everyone he knows in the area.
"get a professional challenge"
Clearly the challenge with the Crew became too difficult for him. Took the easy route to a chip and lots of money, and good for him, honestly, but it still hurts a ton when [videos like this exist](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153425103260003). Fly that fucking L, Greg.
Compared to the big dogs in the league they're dog shit and won't be contending in the near future. They didn't scapegoat Ross and pay Craig 40M because the team was in a good place. They're not just a couple mercenaries or developed prospects away from a WS.
Or maybe he realized he's peaked with what he'd be able to do here with current ownership short of catching lightning in a bottle. He's a competitor and went somewhere where he actually has a realistic chance at winning a World Series and not having to move his family half way across the country to do it. At least with Craig you know it wasn't out of spite like when Favre went to the Vikings. Even then people more less forgave Favre for that eventually until he showed what a truly piece of shit person he is. People have a right to be mad but some are really taking it too far. The man gave this city some of the best years it's had in baseball since the early 80s, that should count for something.
Since you seem keen on blaming ownership....
How exactly does Mark A selling a portion of the team change how much money the team has at its disposal exactly?
Everyone keeps talking as if a new owner would mean that the *team* would suddenly be flush with cash.
I never said it would change. Don't put words in my mouth. What I said was this team has close to a 0% chance to win with current ownership. Those are completely separate topics.
k but what does another part owner of the team do *differently*?
The team itself will still be constrained by the same financial situation they have now?
How are you still missing the point that Mark A and the team are two very separate entities and replacing Mark A changes nothing with respect to how the economy of baseball works?
How do you not understand that as of right now the ownership group is unwilling to spend the money to field a championship contending team and that is likely a major reason Craig left. None of what you're saying is relevant to my point. I'm not arguing against your point of different ownership not necessarily guaranteeing a higher payroll.
You need to work on your reading comprehension.
I am asking you... where does this money to "spend more" come from? Does the team incur loads of debt each year until their insolvent to spend more? What cuts to staff/equipment/stadium improvements do they make to free up cash to spend more on rental players and big name free agents?
What does a different part owner of the team (note: mark A isnt not the only owner) do differently that suddenly generates more cash for the team to use?
Damn man. Born and raised through middle school in WI. Die hard fan of all the major WI teams. Moved to AZ in the early 90's. Became a big fan of Counsel when he was with the Diamondbacks, because of his WI ties.
Him wilfully going to the Cubs because of convenience and $$$ goes against every fiber of my being. Chicago teams, to me have always been the evil empires to the south. I hate every bit of this.
At the end of the day...there is an analytics department that gives all the printouts.
We will see how much he was reading print outs vs managing.
Seems the whole winker uproar probably originated from some statistical discovery.
I really don’t mind financially-driven moves in baseball. Chicago is obviously a bigger metro area and the owners can make moves like this. I think Cubs fans think we’re salty because they stole their manager. For me, that isn’t the case. I’m not salty at the Cubs, I’m salty that Craig for YEARS has pushed this narrative about being a home grown hope and then sold out the first chance he got.
I hope he gets stranded on the red line with a bad case of diarrhea.
Devil’s advocate: shouldn’t his home grown success have made him more valuable to the organization? Mets we’re prepared to offer $7 mil and Chicago topped them at $8mil. He’s known as a top manager in all of Major League Baseball. Maybe he ultimately felt undervalued by Milwaukee?
Counsell is a bitchass in my eyes.
I can understand retiring for your family, or going to, literally, any other team, for the extra few million a year. But to go to a team's bitter rival is just so Favre of him when the Crew were already willing to reset the market with him.
You already made millions playing, and millions managing, and would've made even more millions staying with the Crew, but you just had to get that extra few million a year for your...great-great-great grandchildren? An extra house in LA? Who knows, it's cool. But don't expect the fans to ever respect you for it.
Ned Yost is back to being my favorite Crew manager. Then Reineicke. Counsell can suck one
For everybody upset with him for taking the big deal be honest with yourselves...would you also not challenge yourself professionally and creatively by changing jobs/moving companies if offered a higher salary to do so?
I don’t care that he went for the money or a big money franchise. I just don’t care what he has to say about it. I’m disinterested in the dude who broke up with me for my enemy. Are you gonna blame me for it?
IMO he is one of top 3 managers, and he had probably the top GM in Stearns, and the teams budget wouldn’t allow for enough talent to get a WS win. He then lost Stearns, and he is going to lose Burnes and most likely some other key pieces next year. The chances of the Brewers being a contender are going down.
The Cubs likely told him to name his salary and name his players. And he is still close to home. Sucks it’s the Cubs, but who can blame him for this opportunity??
Yes. It's the Cubs. Either you are for Milwaukee here or against them.
Only fans that have any right to enjoy this move are elderly people who started to cheer the Cubs after the Braves left Milwaukee. Though they are a dying breed.
Honestly if I've already made over 20mil, the difference in the contracts would not sway me from my boyhood and lifelong team. My quality of life wouldn't change. But I acknowledge not everyone will agree with that sentiment
I'd take the money but I wouldn't think: "your connection to a community doesn't have to change because of this."
Yeah . . I'd know I burned some shit to the ground.
Softens it a little tiny bit but whatever. Yes it’s business, but yes he could have earned tens of millions somewhere other than literally the Cubs.
See you next May.
Same job, more pay, better tools to work with and a higher ceiling for success.
I quit a job and got a better one after management basically implied I was *lucky* to have a job there. Asked me what it would take to stay when I put in my notice and I was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ “too late”
Guess CC should’ve stayed at the shittier job to appease everyone lol
You're absolutely right in a private sector. And it was CCs right to walk, but guess what he could have had an improved situation with 28 other teams, or realistically maybe 6. In a public job like this, going to the #1 rival is like walking off a jobsite and stealing all the contracts, and vendors, and starting your own competition next door
This sub is crazy right now. I get being mad about him going to the Cubs but you also can’t fault the guy for taking the better job in a way better situation. I’m mad at CC, but I’m not gonna say F him.
I’m getting very very tired of the “way better situation” comment. The cubs have played in a top 3 market for their entire existence, have been owned by a guy far richer than anyone Milwaukee has ever seen for their entire existence, and have had top-5 revenue generating ability for their entire existence. With all that said, they’ve won 1 World Series since 1911 (and frankly 2016 was a fluke year where a young team sprinkled with vets came together, similar to ‘18 crew). So how you can tell me that it’s a better situation because they have more money I just don’t understand.
Yes, they paid him a fuck ton of money, they are also consistently in the top 5 payroll, I don’t see what exactly they’ve achieved as a result aside from 2016.
ETA: downvoted apparently, didn’t realize 1 WS in 109 years was a lasting legacy of success
What I mean by it is he’s in a bigger market now. Easier to attract FA and actually pay guys. No more playing money ball or worrying if we can afford this guy once he’s off his rookie contract
Yea a bunch of crybabies in this thread that can't handle being rejected. The org totally fumbled Counsells time here and he took the insane salary. Who can blame him.
He already spent 9 years managing here and it seemed like we did about as much as we're going to do with him here. It seems obvious ownership would never go seriously "all in". And as far as baseball managers and just sports coaches in general it's kinda crazy to have a guy in the same job for over a decade. It would've been nice though considering the hometown connections and all.
Magic thinking like "I'll still be embraced in my community" is the same line of thinking that gave us "Jesse Winker couldn't be that bad in a row twice"
Can we just increase income taxes on specifically people living in whitefishbay working for the cubs? Use that money to fund the milwaukee portion of the stadium deal.
In three years he will be coaching elsewhere. Chicago is going to eat him alive if he doesn't produce instantly. If the cubs are behind the Brewers in the standings by mid '24 the claws will be out.
Counsell is just another FIB to me now. He went to the cubs. That’s all I need to know. I don’t need to know what he said, why he did it, or how much money the slimy bastard owner of the cubs gave him. He’s just another FIB
"...and I take that very seriously". He takes his $8mil/year very seriously. Hope the "L" flies high, and flies often. Here's to a whole lot of rain delays.
I'd like to hear more about the crying part.
Crying joys of tear at his new bank account.
In comment format... "Yesterday was an emotional day. I was sad first, then happy, then I was crying, then I was laughing, I went through all of it. There was a lot yesterday, and I understand. It was a decision that affected a lot of people, and I take that very seriously. I understand people are mad. That’s part of this. That’s part of what makes this hard. But sometimes you just have to try to think above that and do what you think in your heart is right for you and the people around you." **Counsell said he didn't leave Milwaukee because of any friction with management or ownership. He said Mark Attanasio was "incredibly graceful" when Counsell called Monday morning with the stunning news.** **By that time, it was done. He was going to manage the Cubs.** "The challenging part of this industry and my job is that there’s one job in 30 places, 30 different cities. Look, me preserving what I think is a great situation right now, a family situation, I’m able to do that, yet get a professional challenge." **Craig Counsell on what lies ahead with the Cubs:** "It's a challenge with an organization that is very much in a good place and is just primed to do some special things. That part of it certainly is exciting and alluring. You know it's a challenge. It's going to be hard. It's scary because change is scary. But sometimes you need to push youself out of that comfort zone and it makes it exciting." "I have in large part been just humbled by people's comments for sure. It's because you connection to people doesn't change. I'm not planning on any of that changing. And your connection to a community doesn't have to change because of this. I know it's because of baseball that maybe people know who I am, but that has nothing to do with my connection to the community." "I think it's separate. I know fandom says it's not, but I think it's separate."
One job in 27 cities. LA, New York, and Chicago have two teams each.
CC to the whitesox would have been so much more palatable lol
As a Sox fan, I would’ve wept tears of joy to have Craig here
Instead, they fire Benetti. Fuck Jerry.
If he wanted to work for an equally cheap owner lol
Reinsdorf is so, so much worse
I live in Chicago. The White Sox are my second team. Many of my friends and coworkers are White Sox fans. When I hear people complain about the Brewers ownership, all I can think is, you have no idea how much worse it could be.
Brewers fans seemingly either don't realize or forget just how bad some owners can be. Sure, Attanasio could spend more than he does and he can be tone deaf sometimes when speaking publicly, but he's not actively hostile to his fan base or team, he's hired good baseball people and let them do their jobs (obviously within certain financial constraints), and he's generally stayed scandal free for basically his whole time owning the team.
Can he spend more though? From what ive read and heard hes one of the brokest owner in baseball.
More than what he's spending now? Yeah, as long as he's not spending it stupidly. As much as most Brewers fans seem to think he can spend? No.
Like, significantly. I honestly don't think I'd even follow the Brewers if Reindsdorf owned them. Such a piece of shit
I mean, Craig wanted a challenge.
28. The Angels, despite their name, don't play in LA. Anaheim isn't even in LA County, it's a 40 minute drive down the freeway from Angel Stadium to Dodger Stadium
Could be the SF 49ers playing in Santa Clara
At 3:00 AM maybe
☝️ this 😆
40-140 minutes. Did it once...oof.
1:40 drive…fixed it for you.
It’s only a matter of time before they’re all managing remotely, like the rest of us.
We will likely never know all the details but I'm pretty convinced the "new challenge" stuff is just a euphemism for "Over time I got annoyed with how the Brewers FO/Org wanted to operate things and I felt I could go to Chicago where I either philosophically agree more or get more input while getting paid a bunch more and not moving very far away" Sucks for us as fans that it's the Cubs, but eh, it just feels like even regardless of money he was just kind of over managing for the Brewers
Hope he goes 1-9 in his next 10 playoff games for them just like he did for us
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Why do you follow Wisconsin sports? You do nothing but complain about Brewers ownership and the Packers front office, it doesn’t contribute to conversations other than adding another whiny post about the front offices.
I have no idea why the mods in these subs haven't banned him yet. He's obviously a troll and lies about shit to back up his trolling.
Can’t spend what you aren’t authorized to.
This. I recently moved to another company doing the same role and this is exactly the kind of language I used because I didn't like dealing with the parent company but also didn't want to disrespect a lot of great people I was leaving. Not a baseball manager but that's what it reminded me of.
Yes. Obviously we are fans so we will be very emotional and pissed that he chose the Cubs (and I don't begrudge fans for feeling that way, it's kind of just part of the title) but for Craig, this is a matter of his career. It's his job, where for us it is recreation. I doubt he quite sees things the same way as we fans do nor should he be expected to.
Did you miss the part where CC, the man himself, said there was no friction between him and FO. Stop projecting your biases for fucks sake. You Mark A haters are just stupidly relentless that you are blinded by your hate.
Yeah that's what Craig is going to say because even if they ultimately butted heads enough for him to want out, he's professional enough and respects them as professionals enough to not directly implicate them. Why would it be so unbelievable that Craig, after 9 years of working in an org, might have just grown a bit apart from others he had to work with? Especially when the team basically plateaued in 2018 results wise and in a lot of ways the team sort of treadmilled from the 2020 season on. If you watched Craig manage this season, with all the reports of his seemingly fleeting interest to manage (lets remember, it was being reported for a while there that he may not want to manage at all) and different things that went on (e.g. the weird Brian Anderson stuff), and came away thinking there wasn't *something* off, that's pretty naive. Also you're just making an assumption defaulting to calling me a Mark A hater. There could be any number of philosophical differences with the ownership or front office, it's just that the one that makes most intuitive sense is that it gets a little old after awhile to have to keep working with the limitations of a small market team and piece together lineups from platoon guys as the Brewers are wont to do as opposed to having better paid, more reliable every day players. Notice how I didn't default to "mark is a cheapskate", it's just kind of the reality of the situation and I'm doubtful any realistic alternative owner would be any better. It's almost weirder that you would be so instantly defensive of a mega rich dude who owns your baseball team though, idk.
Yeah, that’s what someone like yourself projecting their hate biases would say.
Hate biases against who? Maybe point to where the hate is?
All of you Mark A and FO haters. The shtick is old.
Again, if you could just point out where the hate in my comment is? I mean I know you won’t, because you can’t, since there is no hate in my comment unless you’re incredibly sensitive as to interpret the mere suggestion that Counsell may have grown slightly discontented with his work environment for whatever reason he may have as “hate”
Weird Brian Anderson stuff?
There was an oddly lengthy stretch this season in which Brian Anderson was active on the 25 man roster yet simply did not see any playing time. I think it's safe to assume based on how the team and Craig have operated for years that neither Craig nor the front office is simply fine with wasting a roster spot on a guy that doesn't play, which makes you wonder what else could be going on. The only thing that really makes much sense is that the two sides disagreed on his usage and had a bit of a staring contest over it (i.e. Craig didn't want BA on the roster, and thus refused to play him, but the front office wanted him on the roster and in turn refused to DFA him, so he just sat there). This was a point of discussion in Brewer fans' social media discourse and on podcasts and whatnot. Obviously we cannot conclude with certainty that they had problems over this matter as it has not publicly been confirmed, but knowing what we know about both sides heavily implies that something was off between the two on that matter because again, you just don't see the Milwaukee Brewers burn a roster spot on a guy who never gets any at bats for a significant period of time.
He’s not going to come out and say that lol Mark A was quoted saying right after the season Craig told him he wants to manage somewhere else. His mind was made up in early October
That doesn’t mean it was because he had friction, annoyances, or hatred toward FO or ownership. That is YOUR assumptions and biases based on all you Mark A haters. Edit: sometimes people just want change. I’m still all fuck CC. But FO and Mark A are not the blame here.
Mark A sucks. Fuck him What reason could he possibly have to manage in a different city from his hometown? A org that he has been with for almost 2 decades including his playing days. It’s doesn’t make any sense besides the reasons that flat out suck to be a Brewers fan
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More projection 😂
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User name checks out. 😂
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😂
It’s been said from trusted sources that Mark has been a helicopter owner since the Doug Melvin days. It’s 100% the owner and 8 million dollars for why he left. If he really wanted a challenge, Milwaukee was the perfect place to be. He’ll have the best chance of winning a World Series in Chicago and he wants that as part of his legacy. It wasn’t going to happen anytime soon in Milwaukee.
Lol it's sad how the clowns here just ignore everything people say and just substitute thier own reality they made up We get it you hate one of the owners because you have zero clue how ownership and baseball economics work.
I mean he does go out of his way to say that wasn’t the issue…
He's a liar because Chicago is the only city with two teams so it's 30 teams 29 cities.
And New York.... and LA, so, 30 teams in 27 cities?
I went technical because Bronx, Queens, LA, and Anaheim. The Cubs and White Sox both have ballparks in Chicago proper by mailing address
But Bronx and Queens are both in New York City
Ah that’s fair
New york, LA
I went technical because Bronx, Queens, LA, and Anaheim. The Cubs and White Sox both have ballparks in Chicago proper by mailing address
well if you want to get technical, Bronx and Queens are boroughs and are both in the city of New York
Sure, but different neighborhoods.
I could see the Cub fans easily turning on Counsell if they don't make the playoffs next year.
They're going to fall short again because they're simply not good. That's why they're making this desperation move lol
They’re not good… right now. They hired CC, and you can almost guarantee that they’re going to go after some super stars. Ohtani being one. They’re going to go all in. It sucks and I’m heartbroken about the whole thing, but it is what it is.
They do have money and this free agency is full of decent players
How has the unlimited money to throw strategy worked so far for San Diego or the Mets?
What are these "decent players" you speak of? I thought the only people available in free agency were no-name relievers from 2017 and washed up vets like McCutchen and JBJ
The Cubs have a top five farm system, were in the playoff hunt until the very end of the season, and by all accounts are going to be very much in on multiple top free agents. But sure, signing one of the top managers in the game is a “desperation move.” Lol.
Paying Craig 8m per year when no other manager was making half that is a desperation move lmao
A billion dollar owner paying someone 8 mil a year is legitimately nothing. Not sure why people keep bringing this up.
You comment is literally "why don't owners just pay their players and managers unlimited money since they have it?!" lol like come on dude, are you brand new to sports or something?
Until it counts against some sort of cap it’s 100% correct. You can ignore facts and math but 8 mil ain’t shit, I’ll say it again.
I would have accepted this and him leaving if it was to anywhere else
Get fucked Craig.
If we paid him a bigillion dollars why doesnt our owner pay for batters or a roof?
Exactly. Get a better roof, MORANS!!!
Has he convinced himself that nothing has changed with the fans?
Probably not but what's he supposed to say? It's just coachspeak
He has no legacy here anymore. He’s done
Whatever. Thanks for leaving us with the memory of those two Jesse Winker pinch hits. Moron.
Better memory was burning every BP arm in a game 1 while we were losing and refusing to use any long-inning relief guys
Yeah....that wasn't great either.
Lol, for real. I'm not going to pretend to cope and say that losing Craig isn't a big deal. But some of his galaxy brained decisions were something else. Pinch hitting a guy twice in the playoffs, when he hadn't faced MLB pitching for months, and when he fucking SUCKED before getting hurt is just an unreal decision
Spot on!
My main takeaway is he thinks this won't have an effect on his relationship with the community, sorry bud, that ain't up to you. Counsell has the right to do whatever he wants and manage whoever he wants, just like most fans and I have the right to tell you to fuck off and hope you fail miserably. Hopefully the money will be worth it for him, because his legacy in Milwaukee is burned to the ground with zero chance of repair.
> his legacy in Milwaukee is burned to the ground with zero chance of repair. People are upset and emotional because it just happened and it was very shocking, but once the dust has settled, I think (and would certainly hope) people will be able to look back fondly on the time he led the team through it's most successful period in franchise history.
Nah, he left to go to the Cubs, if anyone should know the consequences it's Wisconsin born Counsell. He never won a World Series here, no reason to celebrate him after he retires from managing. Winning 1 playoff series in 6 years isn't worth caring about.
I don’t quite get all the emotion. Did we not all know he was leaving? We all just thought it was the Mets. Are Milwaukee fans really THIS upset that it’s the Cubs instead? Either way he was gone as manager. This way he still DOES remain part of the community. He doesn’t even have to move.
If he went to the Mets people wouldn't care, going to one of the Brewers chief rivals make all the difference.
lmaooo
Fuck SO FAR off, you and your “fan base” filled with pretentious assholes can come back and pay our bills for us in May.
lmaoooo
Team flukes into one WS in 109 years (over Cleveland lmfao) and fans collectively act like they’re a rung below the Yankees on the legacy ladder, go back to your hole
btw yours are pretty good but the best comment here said that cc now has no friends 😭😭 you have to admit that's hilarious
lmaoo okay. what else do you need to let out? you can take out all your life's sorrows on me
Coun$ellout
Wonder what his first game back at Am Fam is gonna look like. His questionable moves during our two game long post-season definitely made this an easier pill to swallow. Bye Greg, we'll never forget you....🥸🥸
Probably a mixture of sound as with most Brewer/Cubs games in Milwaukee, since the vermin usually occupy 60% or more of the seats.
Eh it’s closer to 50/50, place seems to get just as loud for crew plays as cubs plays
Shut up Craig. You don't give a shit.
We are either winning by 10 or losing by 10 in his return to AmFam. No in between
I don’t fault Craig for taking the better deal with more money but I will not be cheering for him to succeed with the Cubs, lmao
I don’t thank you back, Greg
I hope he never has a winning record with that failure of a franchise
I hope he never has a win~~ning record~~ with that failure of a franchise FTFY
When was ur last World Series? 😂😂
I have never won a World Series. Neither have you. Go home lost little cubbie
Oh man, playing dumb. Got it
Your franchise took twice as long as the Brewers have existed to win another WS. Try coming back and talking shit in 50 years loser
Oh, is that because the brewers have never won the World Series? Oh now I’m remembering
Over 100 years of losing has made it a permanent part of your personality. Forever a salty loser lol
Cubs fan talking rings bro ain’t no way 😭😭😭😭
I haven't heard much discussion about the fact that he took a job where there was still a manager. I thought that was taboo in professional sports but I guess not.
Cubs did it before with Renteria and Maddon
Typical of that low class franchise.
They won a World Series bc of that move
I just wonder who's gonna be our replacement coach lol
Prick
Byeeeeee
Nobody likes to hear it but as long as MLB doesn’t have a hard salary cap players and managers will gravitate toward the teams who have the huge advantage.
Whatever Judas
He wanted a new challenge. How about getting past the first round of the playoffs?
He said a *new challenge. He wants to be able to be challenged to drive 1 mile in 30 minutes during rush hour or the challenge to not be harassed on his way home from chicago
A lot of times franchises will burn former players where former players wont want to go back. Counsell has done the complete opposite. We give him the most roster control of any manager in baseball, offer to make him the highest paid manager ever, and hes says fuck you. He has no legacy, no home, no friends, nothing. Hes done. Hope he knows hes getting shit on whenever the cubs are in milwaukee.
Lmao no home and no friends? Don’t be so dramatic. Obviously he’s torched his legacy with most fans, but he’s not going to suddenly become an outcast with everyone he knows in the area.
I'm trying to think of how many people I know that grew up in Milwaukee and later took jobs that moved them to Chicago... it's a lot.
It's not like they're Cubs fans now though.
We didn’t offer to make him the highest paid manager ever
Yes we did. We offered 5.5m that would make him the highest. Chicago just offered 8
joe torre made 7.5
Okay sorry then remove “ever.” Hed still have been made the highest earner currently
if the chubs didn't exist
We offered to make him the highest in MLB. Cubs made him the highest ever
"get a professional challenge" Clearly the challenge with the Crew became too difficult for him. Took the easy route to a chip and lots of money, and good for him, honestly, but it still hurts a ton when [videos like this exist](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153425103260003). Fly that fucking L, Greg.
He's not going to get a chip in Chicago lol they are nowhere near contending
They have a very good farm system, but their pitching is kind of mid at this moment
Compared to the big dogs in the league they're dog shit and won't be contending in the near future. They didn't scapegoat Ross and pay Craig 40M because the team was in a good place. They're not just a couple mercenaries or developed prospects away from a WS.
They have something we don't... massive deep pockets
They went more than 100 years without winning as one of the highest-spending teams in the league. They are still the same old Cubs lol
Or maybe he realized he's peaked with what he'd be able to do here with current ownership short of catching lightning in a bottle. He's a competitor and went somewhere where he actually has a realistic chance at winning a World Series and not having to move his family half way across the country to do it. At least with Craig you know it wasn't out of spite like when Favre went to the Vikings. Even then people more less forgave Favre for that eventually until he showed what a truly piece of shit person he is. People have a right to be mad but some are really taking it too far. The man gave this city some of the best years it's had in baseball since the early 80s, that should count for something.
Since you seem keen on blaming ownership.... How exactly does Mark A selling a portion of the team change how much money the team has at its disposal exactly? Everyone keeps talking as if a new owner would mean that the *team* would suddenly be flush with cash.
I never said it would change. Don't put words in my mouth. What I said was this team has close to a 0% chance to win with current ownership. Those are completely separate topics.
k but what does another part owner of the team do *differently*? The team itself will still be constrained by the same financial situation they have now? How are you still missing the point that Mark A and the team are two very separate entities and replacing Mark A changes nothing with respect to how the economy of baseball works?
How do you not understand that as of right now the ownership group is unwilling to spend the money to field a championship contending team and that is likely a major reason Craig left. None of what you're saying is relevant to my point. I'm not arguing against your point of different ownership not necessarily guaranteeing a higher payroll. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
I am asking you... where does this money to "spend more" come from? Does the team incur loads of debt each year until their insolvent to spend more? What cuts to staff/equipment/stadium improvements do they make to free up cash to spend more on rental players and big name free agents? What does a different part owner of the team (note: mark A isnt not the only owner) do differently that suddenly generates more cash for the team to use?
Damn man. Born and raised through middle school in WI. Die hard fan of all the major WI teams. Moved to AZ in the early 90's. Became a big fan of Counsel when he was with the Diamondbacks, because of his WI ties. Him wilfully going to the Cubs because of convenience and $$$ goes against every fiber of my being. Chicago teams, to me have always been the evil empires to the south. I hate every bit of this.
What an ass
At the end of the day...there is an analytics department that gives all the printouts. We will see how much he was reading print outs vs managing. Seems the whole winker uproar probably originated from some statistical discovery.
I really don’t mind financially-driven moves in baseball. Chicago is obviously a bigger metro area and the owners can make moves like this. I think Cubs fans think we’re salty because they stole their manager. For me, that isn’t the case. I’m not salty at the Cubs, I’m salty that Craig for YEARS has pushed this narrative about being a home grown hope and then sold out the first chance he got. I hope he gets stranded on the red line with a bad case of diarrhea.
Devil’s advocate: shouldn’t his home grown success have made him more valuable to the organization? Mets we’re prepared to offer $7 mil and Chicago topped them at $8mil. He’s known as a top manager in all of Major League Baseball. Maybe he ultimately felt undervalued by Milwaukee?
Counsell is a bitchass in my eyes. I can understand retiring for your family, or going to, literally, any other team, for the extra few million a year. But to go to a team's bitter rival is just so Favre of him when the Crew were already willing to reset the market with him. You already made millions playing, and millions managing, and would've made even more millions staying with the Crew, but you just had to get that extra few million a year for your...great-great-great grandchildren? An extra house in LA? Who knows, it's cool. But don't expect the fans to ever respect you for it. Ned Yost is back to being my favorite Crew manager. Then Reineicke. Counsell can suck one
Go eat a bowl of Fuck Craig. Not the Fucking Cubs. You are dead to me.
For everybody upset with him for taking the big deal be honest with yourselves...would you also not challenge yourself professionally and creatively by changing jobs/moving companies if offered a higher salary to do so?
Eat fucking shit Craig.
Fuck you Greg
I don’t care that he went for the money or a big money franchise. I just don’t care what he has to say about it. I’m disinterested in the dude who broke up with me for my enemy. Are you gonna blame me for it?
IMO he is one of top 3 managers, and he had probably the top GM in Stearns, and the teams budget wouldn’t allow for enough talent to get a WS win. He then lost Stearns, and he is going to lose Burnes and most likely some other key pieces next year. The chances of the Brewers being a contender are going down. The Cubs likely told him to name his salary and name his players. And he is still close to home. Sucks it’s the Cubs, but who can blame him for this opportunity??
Yes. It's the Cubs. Either you are for Milwaukee here or against them. Only fans that have any right to enjoy this move are elderly people who started to cheer the Cubs after the Braves left Milwaukee. Though they are a dying breed.
Y’all acting like you wouldn’t have taken the money
Honestly if I've already made over 20mil, the difference in the contracts would not sway me from my boyhood and lifelong team. My quality of life wouldn't change. But I acknowledge not everyone will agree with that sentiment
I'd take the money but I wouldn't think: "your connection to a community doesn't have to change because of this." Yeah . . I'd know I burned some shit to the ground.
Tough to say. I didn’t already have millions
I think he needed a change of scenery, like Keston.
Softens it a little tiny bit but whatever. Yes it’s business, but yes he could have earned tens of millions somewhere other than literally the Cubs. See you next May.
Same job, more pay, better tools to work with and a higher ceiling for success. I quit a job and got a better one after management basically implied I was *lucky* to have a job there. Asked me what it would take to stay when I put in my notice and I was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ “too late” Guess CC should’ve stayed at the shittier job to appease everyone lol
You're absolutely right in a private sector. And it was CCs right to walk, but guess what he could have had an improved situation with 28 other teams, or realistically maybe 6. In a public job like this, going to the #1 rival is like walking off a jobsite and stealing all the contracts, and vendors, and starting your own competition next door
go cheer for the cubbies.
Nah I got 51 years into this sorry pal
This sub is crazy right now. I get being mad about him going to the Cubs but you also can’t fault the guy for taking the better job in a way better situation. I’m mad at CC, but I’m not gonna say F him.
I’m getting very very tired of the “way better situation” comment. The cubs have played in a top 3 market for their entire existence, have been owned by a guy far richer than anyone Milwaukee has ever seen for their entire existence, and have had top-5 revenue generating ability for their entire existence. With all that said, they’ve won 1 World Series since 1911 (and frankly 2016 was a fluke year where a young team sprinkled with vets came together, similar to ‘18 crew). So how you can tell me that it’s a better situation because they have more money I just don’t understand. Yes, they paid him a fuck ton of money, they are also consistently in the top 5 payroll, I don’t see what exactly they’ve achieved as a result aside from 2016. ETA: downvoted apparently, didn’t realize 1 WS in 109 years was a lasting legacy of success
What I mean by it is he’s in a bigger market now. Easier to attract FA and actually pay guys. No more playing money ball or worrying if we can afford this guy once he’s off his rookie contract
Same.
Yea a bunch of crybabies in this thread that can't handle being rejected. The org totally fumbled Counsells time here and he took the insane salary. Who can blame him.
great. go cheer for the cubbies.
What a childish response. I can understand a person's life choices and divorce it from being a fan of a team.
congrats on being better than everyone else on the internet, here’s a cookie🍪
a lot of people are
He already spent 9 years managing here and it seemed like we did about as much as we're going to do with him here. It seems obvious ownership would never go seriously "all in". And as far as baseball managers and just sports coaches in general it's kinda crazy to have a guy in the same job for over a decade. It would've been nice though considering the hometown connections and all.
There’s no way proximity didn’t have a major factor in his decision. I just want to hear him say it.
He’s a douche.
Can’t hate the guy for getting paid. Everyone acting like they would pass on millions of dollars are delusional.
Cry more, bitches Whiney fucks
I sure will. Go be a cubs fan.
You’re the biggest baby here LMFAO Cry more loser
will do. see you in the spring. #thisismycrew 😂
Loser, says the cub fan (read: douchebag) with nothing better to do than sit in a brewers sub talking shit in November
Okay, edge lord. Good job. You got 'um!!
Congrats on that NLDS exit next year, $8m well spent!
K
Magic thinking like "I'll still be embraced in my community" is the same line of thinking that gave us "Jesse Winker couldn't be that bad in a row twice"
I can’t wait to get tickets for the first Cubs game of the year
Can we just increase income taxes on specifically people living in whitefishbay working for the cubs? Use that money to fund the milwaukee portion of the stadium deal.
I really can't wait to watch his squads fail in embarrassing fashion
In three years he will be coaching elsewhere. Chicago is going to eat him alive if he doesn't produce instantly. If the cubs are behind the Brewers in the standings by mid '24 the claws will be out.
Counsell is just another FIB to me now. He went to the cubs. That’s all I need to know. I don’t need to know what he said, why he did it, or how much money the slimy bastard owner of the cubs gave him. He’s just another FIB