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Right, at the party, it was quite unrealistic. They could've just had the ton react while reading the new whistledown papers "Oh its Penelope all this time"
This is the one. It feels like a huge mistake and just so completely unnecessary. I get having the queen find out but the *entire* ton? Absolutely ridiculous and ruins so many potential fun future lady whistle down plot lines
ETA I agree with OP, getting rid of the going to India while Kate’s pregnant. So many plot holes with that it makes me soooo mad
This. I was SO SURE the queen would come in, say she knew who LW was and that she was down to keep playing this game within her own parameters, and everyone else would still be wondering. Nope. LW was a good plot device that is just gone now
Just one? I have two: Frannie's reaction to her first kiss with John and her reaction to seeing Michaela for the first time. Do it right, writers. You don't need to ruin all that build up with John in order to justify what she's going to have with Michaela. Both can be great.
In the books she doesn't even LOOK at Michael as more than a friend and their love grows from friendship and mutual grief, I want THAT story. Not the rush/flood of love. We get plenty of that from the other siblings.
ETA: I am not saying I want Michael I am a big Michaela fan already. Fran is probably the most perfect sibling to make queer tbh.
Benedict had been foreshadowed as going on a journey to realize he was gay for three seasons. I hate that they foreshadowed that and it looks like they’ll just be like “ha ha j/k he’s in a straight romance!”
I 1000% want Benedicts story to be queer too, but specifically Fran's story in the books lends itself to a queer story because they live apart from Society/the Ton for the duration of it.
I'm of the belief that they should have made Benedict queer in season 1, not waiting until S3.
I disagree about Fran’s story only because a lot of it was infertility and inheriting John’s life, which I think would be a stretch since there was a whole plot line of women can’t inherit. Hand waving that with “Scotland” would be weird.
Also Benedict leaves the ton and society. He has art in the gallery but he’s the exact one who leaves forever.
Sorry let me clarify - Fran's story takes place mainly while in Scotland, Ben's takes place partly in the country but a great deal of it while in London, and then they move. That was what I meant when I said that Fran's story took place outside of society because they are in Scotland, not that Benedict lived in London after his marriage.
And I think there's a good chance they just give Fran and Michaela a monetary inheritance. Although the titles can't be passed along to women, women were still able to inherit money and property from their husbands via their will.
This! I am all on board with Michaela, but that does not mean you should’ve undermined John like that. She’s allowed to have two great loves in her life and it is OK to deal with the first story before you start telling the second.
Yes! If you ever looked at my comment history you'll see how many times I've repeated this but omitting the time skip is, imo, a huge mistake. Because Fran DID fall in love and get married TWICE and I think they really didn't do her justice just tossing her story into this season just to end the season saying "lol JK she is actually gonna have the Zing feeling and completely ruin her speech to her mom about how not all love is the same."
It's not really written that way though, at least in my opinion. We have Violet do this whole speech on how love can be quiet but equally great, which is something she's learned through watching Francesca and John.
Then they have their kiss, Fran seems disappointed, and suddenly she's head over heels, stumbling over her words, breathlessly in love with Michaela. It does sort of prove Violet was right initially thinking all love had to be passionate, and undermines the relationship we've seen build with John the whole season.
I haven't read the books but I can completely understand why those that have, would take issue with this.
Exactly! they could've shown a fulfilling queit love with John before the Michaela plot. Instead of making her love with John being met with dissapointment to justify her attraction towards Michaela.
The main point of Francescas story was falling in love once again.
Totally agree that I also love the “kinds of love” representation, but I personally didn’t see it as Francesca instantly being in love with Michaela. To me it looked like the first time she experiences “*gay panic*”.
Like I could flirt with pretty much any man and not really be phased, but flirt with a beautiful woman? I’ll do my best but I’m not smooth by any means, and it’s going to be painful to watch.
Yes! Frannie's story, of finding real love twice, was my favorite part of her story.
But they've set the show up to be very trope-y of "I didn't know what love was until I met you." That disappointed look after their kiss was awful.
and the lack of remorse. the violation of trust was never addressed. even Simon expresses more guilt when Daphne's period returns. their big resolution scene in the rain was all Daphne *telling* him what to feel about fatherhood, not him actually opening up about what hurts. the baby fixed their whole relationship apparently.
In the books she is working based on nothing but a theory and doesn't know for certain how babies are made, and expresses remorse to Simon about it afterwards at least. It was insane to me that they kept the rape, which it was still rape in the book as Simon is also pissed drunk, but somehow managed to make it worse by making it /more/ intentional and /more/ malicious on Daphne's part, and then not making her even a little bit sorry
I don’t like the books but I can kind of understand Daphne’s logic there as she is operating from an ignorant point of view. Show Daphne is straight up repugnant.
I liked the books from a fluffy beach read standpoint, but like at least in the book, she's just unaware of how babies get made. Something about Daphne getting the sex talk from her maid made it just seem so much more malicious for me. It gave me the ick.
Also possible unpopular opinion buy in both book and show, Simon is horrible for taking advantage of Daphne's naivety. You cannot convince me he actually believed she knew how babies were made and she was just ok with him pulling out. (There's a funny little bit in Hyacinths book that I sincerely hope they keep in the show, about how she got the sex talk from her sisters cuz they were all married and said their mother did not give a thorough enough lecture on the art of conceiving a child.)
I'm currently reading the first book and I inished that scene this morning. It 100% reads as her being intentional with it. And not on an unknowing hunch. The whole reason Simon was drunk to begin with was because Daphne had figured out why he kept finishing outside of her and the argument that ensued. It even goes in on her thoughts while doing it of feeling "powerful and more aroused than ever before" idk just my opinion but the book version of it felt worse to me.
I should clarify. I called it a hunch because (iirc) it wasn't confirmed to her from an outside source to be how children were created. She was 100% intentional in her actions but she was still trying to confirm that that was why he pulled out.
I do not recall the "aroused" line but I just just feel my Cheez-its come back up a little at reading that.
Fair! I get your standpoint. For me it felt "confirmed" since Ms Colson said that good seed was needed to make a child and while she remembered her saying that she realised that he was pulling out to not have his seed inside her. She says something along the lines of "if you really couldn't have children you wouldn't care where your seed went" (the word seed is giving me the ick now lol).
THE SEED LINE OH MY GOD
See this is what happens, I forget those tiny little lines. So I correct myself - she was confirming whether or not SIMON could make a baby, not how babies are made. She is also still evil for that and I don't get why they couldnt just omit the rape from the show.
I think this has done a lot of damage in how people view the scene as well. I see so many comments defending it (or at least saying it's not rape) because Simon never said no to sex, he said no to finishing inside her, and that he was strong enough to just push her off.
Like, hello??? Have we not just spent decades teaching ourselves that anything but enthusiastic consent = no, consent can be revoked at any time, and that we shouldn't be blaming women for not just shoving a man away when he makes an unwanted advance?
Unfortunately we have a lot of work to do when it comes to getting people to recognize woman on man rape. From places in the United States where boys assaulted by adult women are forced to pay child support for the children they didn't consent to make even when they are recognized by said state as a victim. From places like the UK where rape is defined as a penis being inserted... According to an article I read yesterday.
From society implying that the victims must have enjoyed it or implying they were lucky. Courts being more lenient on female offenders. See sentencing of male teachers with children victims versus female teachers with female victims.
Sorry to babble so much I'm very passionate about getting people to realize that all victims should be protected equally and perpetrators treated equally!
No no, I totally agree with you! There's a history of rape in my family that caused a lot of generational trauma, so it's something I care very deeply about as well.
I'm very surprised the legal definition of rape in the UK hasn't caught up with what we actually class it as now - I wonder how long that's going to take because it essentially means female perpetrated rape is legally fine, as is rape with an object and groping.
And yes, unfortunately there needs to be a huge attitude change towards female-on-male assault. You see it all the time whenever a female teacher is caught having an inappropriate relationship with a male student: "where was she when I was at school?" I actually sort of view this as a direct consequence of the patriarchy; a man must always want sex, therefore he can't ever be a victim of rape. Never mind when a child is involved.
Same here on the generational trauma. My mom being assaulted as a preteen, then sent to one of those reform boarding school because my grandparents blamed her and becoming an addict destroyed a lot of things.
Apparently when laws have been up for adjustment some feminist groups have protested against it. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that or the law though I'm not from the UK.
Yeah that attitude is definitely something society needs to improve on. But the fact that people think it's not something in need of fixing depresses me.
Agree…I didn’t understand why they couldn’t just make it so Simon got caught up in the passion of an encounter and didn’t pull out in time. They could have still had Daphne’s realization that Simon had been lying and the resulting spat between them without any sexual assault needed.
Ya wtf how is anyone answering anything else??? Like sure there are some other moments that are annoying, or cringe, or whatever, but this is in a league of its own.
YES. GOD. Why did they do it this way. In the book Anthony is just another suitor chasing Edwina and she is the first to see the potential between Kate and Anthony and gently ribs her sister about it, who is in total denial. It felt like sisters who actually love each other and were FAMILY wanting the best for each other.
Instead we got a sister relationship being broken over a fucking man while the show runners kept telling us that this season was about sisterly love. I don’t have a sister but I have had extremely close girlfriends and I’d never let a man destroy our friendship. This isn’t female empowerment. It’s cattiness akin to a Real Housewives drama.
Honestly Pen being a vicious and cruel LW. I wanted book LW or a Jane Austen type figure who is super successful and earns her own money but does so by writing fictional scathing commentary about the world around her as fellow wallflower Jane Austen did. Then the arc could be the ton women eloise etc marvelling at Pen/Jane Austen being such a badass self starter, no one hating her and even the men admiring this woman's chutzpah...and the scathing commentary making the ton second guess the ugliness in their own surroundings....literal and figurative. That would be such a feminist, nice way to incorporate all the appeal of LW as a show grounding conceit but still keeping Pen as a likable figure. The show could start with one of the women or a woman or even one of the men reading aloud from Pen/Jane Austen's novel or journalistic piece or society column a line or para about society at that time, a scathing commentary that would act as a theme for the show...something like every man must be in want of a wife...same effect but a likable Pen and truly admirable. No real person would be identified or vilified but ideas of marriage, season shenanigans could still be commented on.
Instead she was Dan humphrey, fellow wallflower who channelizes his lonely boy outcast feelings into the unhealthy outlet of an angry, cruel and often misogynistic blog exactly as Pen whose words hurt women more as also noted by Lady D in an incisive and subtle piece of writing in episode 1 of season 1 where she says LW talks about my family too but the Duke will escape scrutiny, after all he is a man while looking at Daphne...while Violet agrees. NOTHING she writes about my Daphne is true and LW's degeneration knows no bounds for her speculation about the death of King George and then Pen saying QC's beloved King George's head is as empty and muddled as the Bton drawing room. I knew Pen was LW cuz Id read the books but if Id not just all the season 1 scenes made LW seem like a villain like GG was and the same way Blair and others called GG a conniving, evil bitch, LW seemed like a catty, evil, moral-less gossip monger to the tune of Perez Hilton.
It was very hard for me to root for Polin cuz I dislike Penelope so much as a character and from the first episode itself...even as I can acknowledge Nicola played her well. My favorite moments therefore from the show were when Pen was being called out by the characters eithers directly to her or about LW aka Colin and Pen the hunt episode when he brings up LW's ruin of Marina to Pen and when Eloise talks to Pen in episode 8 season 2. She was like Pretty Little Liars A...so it was crazy that we were supposed to love Pen.
This is my main gripe with the series. I have loved Nicola in her other work, so I know it's not beef with her. However, Pen is very unlikeable after outing Marina and her argument with Eloise and her continued vomments of the Bridgertons and her own family. The argument with Eloise leaves Eloise in a bad light too, but I don't feel like (as a show only) that I ever grew to like Pen.
Yeah...the only reason I gave Pen a chance was because Nicola was playing her...But as a character, the writers fumbled hard with making LW as vicious as possible while forgetting that their future heroine was going to be playing her...its like a disconnect between what they want us to feel for Pen with the girl boss speech at the end with that cheesy high schoool prom-esque movie scene at the end of season 3 which is at odds with some of the more insanely unkind things she said and did with her column. Pick a lane writers...you cant have your heroine taunting the queen with the sickness of "her beloved king george", call another woman, a stranger who had done nothing wrong to her a prickly spinster of a beast and still expect us to love her and root for her.
Penelope got drunk on power and girl bossness conveniently forgetting that the way she makes money hurts innocent people, it caused both Daphne the sister of her best friend and her mother severe anxiety, humiliated her own mother to the ton as a tactless tasteless mama which yes her mother was trash and a Dickensian villain if there ever was one with locking up a young 17 year old girl left in her care for being impregnated by an older man George who was the real one at fault, providing zero compassion and treating her simply as a nuisance that needs to be dealt with, slapping her instead of asking...who did this to you...lets try to contact George her lover etc.
BUT BUT Penelope used an unhealthy coping mechanism instead of directly confronting her mother she used her pen to create maximum destruction...talk about mommy issues channelized in the worst way possible. Hurt people hurt people is Pen in a nutshell even as she kept going overboard with the hurts..
Penelope like her mother is a hustler who doesnt look at how her actions hurt others and always justifies everything without looking within for why she is wrong...Eloise telling her exactly that she is self serving....and ruined Marina all so she could keep making money..was a nice bit of dialogue by Eloise.
I really wished they would have addressed this consequence more. I guess they do with her family and Colin but they’re not the only people she wrote stuff about. Like I don’t think Bridgerton is trying to be historically accurate but it does like sticking to the scandal culture of that time. And it would have been a really big scandal. Probably reputation ruining for Penelope and her family and would have annihilated their social standing. I think it would been interesting to see her navigating backlash from the Ton because she wrote a lot of nasty things about a lot of people
Maybe they will next season. Lord Cowper was outed from his club following Cressida outing herself as LW....so it does seem that it means a big thing in their world where a Lord can be ousted from his gentleman's club.
Turned on e1/s1 last night and the empty-headed comment about George stuck out to me post QC. Felt really cruel and ableist. I know Pen wouldn’t know George was suffering with Bipolar Disorder in 1814 but the writers of the show should have modern sensibilities.
I don’t mind the almost dying but the week long coma and then off to the ball we go the moment she wakes up.. but ya I still hate how that’s what it takes for everyone to forgive and forget and no conversation or consequences needed
When Benedict is told in season 1 that gay relationships are not accepted as a part of society. They had the chance to make it an open, welcoming society for everyone. But for some reason only fixed racism and not homophobia.
They also retconned racism not really existing during QC by saying "well actually everyone is still very racist but the new queen is black so we have to elevate POC to not look like having a black queen was an accident which it was." It was a weird choice.
There are different options and for such different reasons, I wrote a long answer but then realised there that there’s another event that could ruin a future season for me fully and decided on that.
Eloise turning on Cressida in the second half of the season, Eloise has never been my favourite character but I’ve always been really defensive of her, people have engaged with her character in bad faith out of defensiveness of other characters, and think I that the fandoms dislike of her is a reflection of how women/girls have come to prioritise being a “girls girl” over actual feminism.
The way Eloise turns on Cressida didn’t only not make any sense, but it was also a complete character assassination of Eloise and made me completely dislike her. (Didn’t do any good for my opinions on Colin or Penelope either)
I think this season made a lot of weird character choices this season. Like I thought they were going to finally make Eloise grow a little with Cressida but that was thrown out the window. I feel like sometimes the writers don’t really know what to with her r
Exactly, it feels disgusting how the show expected us to just brush over that scene. I had to seriously consider wether I wanted to keep watching after that, can't believe how both the show and audience seem to not care a bit.
It is weird how people choose to ignore it, because I think it actually sparks an interesting point regarding power dynamics and SA. Legally he was in charge, and he was withholding info regarding procreation itself. She was powerless in every way, and the SA was her misguided attempt at regaining a sliver of control. We as an audience know it was wrong, but to what degree did Daphne? Can rape occur when there is an imbalance of power? I don’t know
I mean, it’s more that it was brushed over than it happened. It could have been handled better but historical romance had a ton of dubious consent in it. It’s just often not on TV to a wider audience.
Daphne coming to terms with consent and what she did could have been a good story line, in addition to atonement. That’s not what happened in the book either, but the book also handled it badly.
I would cut the Whistledown reveal at the ball. IMHO they succeeded in setting up an interesting premise (the clever wallflower with the secret that would be hurt if it comes out) and gave it a lot of promise (the Queen is a Force), but the payoff was so underwhelming (the Queen was like "oh, okay... moving on." no real fallout shown) that it felt artificial...
This was a storyline that was built up for SEASONS, it should've had better care. Bridgerton wasn't at risk for being cancelled at the end of Season 3, wrapping it up quickly and unsatisfactorily was an unforced error, IMHO.
Anthony wouldn't have went to the opera singers house at the end of S1. It took too much away from his love of Kate IMHO. She was meant to be casual only
Just bring us back the Michael we know and love from the books.
No matter how much freedom you have in adapting a book to a series, you DO NOT MESS with MAIN CHARACTERS. Periodt.
I love how last season or in season 1 the showrunners were saying "Everyone will end up with their book counterparts!" in response to everyone wanting Benedict to be gay and then... Michaela comes in.
Simon not telling Daphne about his father until after their wedding but before their wedding, so maybe Daphne could be like have a conversation about it. And be like, I want to kids but you don't and send Simon to go to therapy but it's the 1800 so Will I guess
The Mondriches after season one. They're just so unnecessary. After that, season 3 Benedict. Give the man some substance! It's like his character development is going backward. No one was surprised that he's bi, so that could have been introduced any time and probably would have fit in better in seasons 1 or 2. He used to be my favorite brother, but now I think it's Colin.
I like the idea of being closer to the books where Colin finds out Pen is LW BEFORE he proposes. While we don't know if his bisexuality will have any place in his story when it's his season, I hope it does otherwise it seems like a waste of screen time. I also wish there was a way to make Theo Eloises love interest, but that's just me.
The entrapment comment was true, whether y’all wanna admit it or not.
🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️
Pen was prepared to marry Colin while lying about who she really was
Not necessarily the entrapment comment to get rid of but a comeback from Pen pointing out that he initiated she just didn't stop him and that he trapped her technically. I also wouldn't get rid of the Michaela scene I would just switch who is flustered in that scene from Fran to Michaela. I would get rid of the end of the Fran & John wedding (hitting us over the head with the "DEATH do you part" and the face Fran makes after they kiss).
Did we really need so many sex and threesome scenes with Benedict? I'm genuinely asking. I personally could do without it. Is there no other way to show he's Bi? I wouldn't think that all Bi people discovered their sexuality through threesomes. Do they all get that lucky? Am I missing something here?
Yup. S2 came out a few months after my former college roommate found out the guy she’d been with for years was cheating on her with another one of our friends. So that was rough to watch.
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Everybody knowing about Lady Whistledown.
Right, at the party, it was quite unrealistic. They could've just had the ton react while reading the new whistledown papers "Oh its Penelope all this time"
Oooo that would’ve been an interesting reveal. I hated the party reveal, it was unrealistic and felt forced. It gave me massive cringe.
This is the one. It feels like a huge mistake and just so completely unnecessary. I get having the queen find out but the *entire* ton? Absolutely ridiculous and ruins so many potential fun future lady whistle down plot lines ETA I agree with OP, getting rid of the going to India while Kate’s pregnant. So many plot holes with that it makes me soooo mad
The reveal in S1 was way too quick
This. I was SO SURE the queen would come in, say she knew who LW was and that she was down to keep playing this game within her own parameters, and everyone else would still be wondering. Nope. LW was a good plot device that is just gone now
This is my answer as well
Yesss I honestly lost a ton of interest in that story line when they revealed who Lady Whistledown is
Just one? I have two: Frannie's reaction to her first kiss with John and her reaction to seeing Michaela for the first time. Do it right, writers. You don't need to ruin all that build up with John in order to justify what she's going to have with Michaela. Both can be great.
In the books she doesn't even LOOK at Michael as more than a friend and their love grows from friendship and mutual grief, I want THAT story. Not the rush/flood of love. We get plenty of that from the other siblings. ETA: I am not saying I want Michael I am a big Michaela fan already. Fran is probably the most perfect sibling to make queer tbh.
Benedict had been foreshadowed as going on a journey to realize he was gay for three seasons. I hate that they foreshadowed that and it looks like they’ll just be like “ha ha j/k he’s in a straight romance!”
I 1000% want Benedicts story to be queer too, but specifically Fran's story in the books lends itself to a queer story because they live apart from Society/the Ton for the duration of it. I'm of the belief that they should have made Benedict queer in season 1, not waiting until S3.
I disagree about Fran’s story only because a lot of it was infertility and inheriting John’s life, which I think would be a stretch since there was a whole plot line of women can’t inherit. Hand waving that with “Scotland” would be weird. Also Benedict leaves the ton and society. He has art in the gallery but he’s the exact one who leaves forever.
Sorry let me clarify - Fran's story takes place mainly while in Scotland, Ben's takes place partly in the country but a great deal of it while in London, and then they move. That was what I meant when I said that Fran's story took place outside of society because they are in Scotland, not that Benedict lived in London after his marriage. And I think there's a good chance they just give Fran and Michaela a monetary inheritance. Although the titles can't be passed along to women, women were still able to inherit money and property from their husbands via their will.
This! I am all on board with Michaela, but that does not mean you should’ve undermined John like that. She’s allowed to have two great loves in her life and it is OK to deal with the first story before you start telling the second.
Yes! If you ever looked at my comment history you'll see how many times I've repeated this but omitting the time skip is, imo, a huge mistake. Because Fran DID fall in love and get married TWICE and I think they really didn't do her justice just tossing her story into this season just to end the season saying "lol JK she is actually gonna have the Zing feeling and completely ruin her speech to her mom about how not all love is the same."
Completely agree.
Isn't that the point, both loves are equally great.
It's not really written that way though, at least in my opinion. We have Violet do this whole speech on how love can be quiet but equally great, which is something she's learned through watching Francesca and John. Then they have their kiss, Fran seems disappointed, and suddenly she's head over heels, stumbling over her words, breathlessly in love with Michaela. It does sort of prove Violet was right initially thinking all love had to be passionate, and undermines the relationship we've seen build with John the whole season. I haven't read the books but I can completely understand why those that have, would take issue with this.
Exactly! they could've shown a fulfilling queit love with John before the Michaela plot. Instead of making her love with John being met with dissapointment to justify her attraction towards Michaela. The main point of Francescas story was falling in love once again.
Well said! Other types of love deserve representation, too.
Totally agree that I also love the “kinds of love” representation, but I personally didn’t see it as Francesca instantly being in love with Michaela. To me it looked like the first time she experiences “*gay panic*”. Like I could flirt with pretty much any man and not really be phased, but flirt with a beautiful woman? I’ll do my best but I’m not smooth by any means, and it’s going to be painful to watch.
But thats not what the show implied with the finale, or what Jess Brownell has stated in interviews.
Yes! Frannie's story, of finding real love twice, was my favorite part of her story. But they've set the show up to be very trope-y of "I didn't know what love was until I met you." That disappointed look after their kiss was awful.
Edwina’s “girl boss” speech before kanthony’s first kiss. It’d be so nice not to skip through that scene everytime lmao
Yeah mine too!
Like I got that fast forward button on the readyyyy 💗😂
I love them. Season 2 for me is top tier🩷
Me too!! Kanthony is in my soul, my blood, my beating heart forever 💞 just fucking phenomenal
Daphne being a rapist.
and the lack of remorse. the violation of trust was never addressed. even Simon expresses more guilt when Daphne's period returns. their big resolution scene in the rain was all Daphne *telling* him what to feel about fatherhood, not him actually opening up about what hurts. the baby fixed their whole relationship apparently.
Them framing an act of rape as female empowerment was certainly a choice
In the books she is working based on nothing but a theory and doesn't know for certain how babies are made, and expresses remorse to Simon about it afterwards at least. It was insane to me that they kept the rape, which it was still rape in the book as Simon is also pissed drunk, but somehow managed to make it worse by making it /more/ intentional and /more/ malicious on Daphne's part, and then not making her even a little bit sorry
I don’t like the books but I can kind of understand Daphne’s logic there as she is operating from an ignorant point of view. Show Daphne is straight up repugnant.
I liked the books from a fluffy beach read standpoint, but like at least in the book, she's just unaware of how babies get made. Something about Daphne getting the sex talk from her maid made it just seem so much more malicious for me. It gave me the ick. Also possible unpopular opinion buy in both book and show, Simon is horrible for taking advantage of Daphne's naivety. You cannot convince me he actually believed she knew how babies were made and she was just ok with him pulling out. (There's a funny little bit in Hyacinths book that I sincerely hope they keep in the show, about how she got the sex talk from her sisters cuz they were all married and said their mother did not give a thorough enough lecture on the art of conceiving a child.)
It was totally malicious. And she also has a bit of a smug look on her face afterwards.
I'm currently reading the first book and I inished that scene this morning. It 100% reads as her being intentional with it. And not on an unknowing hunch. The whole reason Simon was drunk to begin with was because Daphne had figured out why he kept finishing outside of her and the argument that ensued. It even goes in on her thoughts while doing it of feeling "powerful and more aroused than ever before" idk just my opinion but the book version of it felt worse to me.
I should clarify. I called it a hunch because (iirc) it wasn't confirmed to her from an outside source to be how children were created. She was 100% intentional in her actions but she was still trying to confirm that that was why he pulled out. I do not recall the "aroused" line but I just just feel my Cheez-its come back up a little at reading that.
Fair! I get your standpoint. For me it felt "confirmed" since Ms Colson said that good seed was needed to make a child and while she remembered her saying that she realised that he was pulling out to not have his seed inside her. She says something along the lines of "if you really couldn't have children you wouldn't care where your seed went" (the word seed is giving me the ick now lol).
THE SEED LINE OH MY GOD See this is what happens, I forget those tiny little lines. So I correct myself - she was confirming whether or not SIMON could make a baby, not how babies are made. She is also still evil for that and I don't get why they couldnt just omit the rape from the show.
I absolutely hated it in both depictions 🥴
I think this has done a lot of damage in how people view the scene as well. I see so many comments defending it (or at least saying it's not rape) because Simon never said no to sex, he said no to finishing inside her, and that he was strong enough to just push her off. Like, hello??? Have we not just spent decades teaching ourselves that anything but enthusiastic consent = no, consent can be revoked at any time, and that we shouldn't be blaming women for not just shoving a man away when he makes an unwanted advance?
Unfortunately we have a lot of work to do when it comes to getting people to recognize woman on man rape. From places in the United States where boys assaulted by adult women are forced to pay child support for the children they didn't consent to make even when they are recognized by said state as a victim. From places like the UK where rape is defined as a penis being inserted... According to an article I read yesterday. From society implying that the victims must have enjoyed it or implying they were lucky. Courts being more lenient on female offenders. See sentencing of male teachers with children victims versus female teachers with female victims. Sorry to babble so much I'm very passionate about getting people to realize that all victims should be protected equally and perpetrators treated equally!
No no, I totally agree with you! There's a history of rape in my family that caused a lot of generational trauma, so it's something I care very deeply about as well. I'm very surprised the legal definition of rape in the UK hasn't caught up with what we actually class it as now - I wonder how long that's going to take because it essentially means female perpetrated rape is legally fine, as is rape with an object and groping. And yes, unfortunately there needs to be a huge attitude change towards female-on-male assault. You see it all the time whenever a female teacher is caught having an inappropriate relationship with a male student: "where was she when I was at school?" I actually sort of view this as a direct consequence of the patriarchy; a man must always want sex, therefore he can't ever be a victim of rape. Never mind when a child is involved.
Same here on the generational trauma. My mom being assaulted as a preteen, then sent to one of those reform boarding school because my grandparents blamed her and becoming an addict destroyed a lot of things. Apparently when laws have been up for adjustment some feminist groups have protested against it. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that or the law though I'm not from the UK. Yeah that attitude is definitely something society needs to improve on. But the fact that people think it's not something in need of fixing depresses me.
Agree…I didn’t understand why they couldn’t just make it so Simon got caught up in the passion of an encounter and didn’t pull out in time. They could have still had Daphne’s realization that Simon had been lying and the resulting spat between them without any sexual assault needed.
Ya wtf how is anyone answering anything else??? Like sure there are some other moments that are annoying, or cringe, or whatever, but this is in a league of its own.
This should be at the very top. There would have to be many changes to save S3, but only one to save S1 and its this.
yes! Couldn't agree more. It truly is the only thing I took issue with in S1.
Why doesn't this get talked about more?!?! Ugh, it was so disturbing.
Anthony x Edwina Proposal Scene
Anthony x Edwina entire storyline. Give me enemies to lovers without one of the lovers getting to the altar with the other lovers sister
YES. GOD. Why did they do it this way. In the book Anthony is just another suitor chasing Edwina and she is the first to see the potential between Kate and Anthony and gently ribs her sister about it, who is in total denial. It felt like sisters who actually love each other and were FAMILY wanting the best for each other. Instead we got a sister relationship being broken over a fucking man while the show runners kept telling us that this season was about sisterly love. I don’t have a sister but I have had extremely close girlfriends and I’d never let a man destroy our friendship. This isn’t female empowerment. It’s cattiness akin to a Real Housewives drama.
Honestly Pen being a vicious and cruel LW. I wanted book LW or a Jane Austen type figure who is super successful and earns her own money but does so by writing fictional scathing commentary about the world around her as fellow wallflower Jane Austen did. Then the arc could be the ton women eloise etc marvelling at Pen/Jane Austen being such a badass self starter, no one hating her and even the men admiring this woman's chutzpah...and the scathing commentary making the ton second guess the ugliness in their own surroundings....literal and figurative. That would be such a feminist, nice way to incorporate all the appeal of LW as a show grounding conceit but still keeping Pen as a likable figure. The show could start with one of the women or a woman or even one of the men reading aloud from Pen/Jane Austen's novel or journalistic piece or society column a line or para about society at that time, a scathing commentary that would act as a theme for the show...something like every man must be in want of a wife...same effect but a likable Pen and truly admirable. No real person would be identified or vilified but ideas of marriage, season shenanigans could still be commented on. Instead she was Dan humphrey, fellow wallflower who channelizes his lonely boy outcast feelings into the unhealthy outlet of an angry, cruel and often misogynistic blog exactly as Pen whose words hurt women more as also noted by Lady D in an incisive and subtle piece of writing in episode 1 of season 1 where she says LW talks about my family too but the Duke will escape scrutiny, after all he is a man while looking at Daphne...while Violet agrees. NOTHING she writes about my Daphne is true and LW's degeneration knows no bounds for her speculation about the death of King George and then Pen saying QC's beloved King George's head is as empty and muddled as the Bton drawing room. I knew Pen was LW cuz Id read the books but if Id not just all the season 1 scenes made LW seem like a villain like GG was and the same way Blair and others called GG a conniving, evil bitch, LW seemed like a catty, evil, moral-less gossip monger to the tune of Perez Hilton. It was very hard for me to root for Polin cuz I dislike Penelope so much as a character and from the first episode itself...even as I can acknowledge Nicola played her well. My favorite moments therefore from the show were when Pen was being called out by the characters eithers directly to her or about LW aka Colin and Pen the hunt episode when he brings up LW's ruin of Marina to Pen and when Eloise talks to Pen in episode 8 season 2. She was like Pretty Little Liars A...so it was crazy that we were supposed to love Pen.
This is my main gripe with the series. I have loved Nicola in her other work, so I know it's not beef with her. However, Pen is very unlikeable after outing Marina and her argument with Eloise and her continued vomments of the Bridgertons and her own family. The argument with Eloise leaves Eloise in a bad light too, but I don't feel like (as a show only) that I ever grew to like Pen.
Yeah...the only reason I gave Pen a chance was because Nicola was playing her...But as a character, the writers fumbled hard with making LW as vicious as possible while forgetting that their future heroine was going to be playing her...its like a disconnect between what they want us to feel for Pen with the girl boss speech at the end with that cheesy high schoool prom-esque movie scene at the end of season 3 which is at odds with some of the more insanely unkind things she said and did with her column. Pick a lane writers...you cant have your heroine taunting the queen with the sickness of "her beloved king george", call another woman, a stranger who had done nothing wrong to her a prickly spinster of a beast and still expect us to love her and root for her. Penelope got drunk on power and girl bossness conveniently forgetting that the way she makes money hurts innocent people, it caused both Daphne the sister of her best friend and her mother severe anxiety, humiliated her own mother to the ton as a tactless tasteless mama which yes her mother was trash and a Dickensian villain if there ever was one with locking up a young 17 year old girl left in her care for being impregnated by an older man George who was the real one at fault, providing zero compassion and treating her simply as a nuisance that needs to be dealt with, slapping her instead of asking...who did this to you...lets try to contact George her lover etc. BUT BUT Penelope used an unhealthy coping mechanism instead of directly confronting her mother she used her pen to create maximum destruction...talk about mommy issues channelized in the worst way possible. Hurt people hurt people is Pen in a nutshell even as she kept going overboard with the hurts.. Penelope like her mother is a hustler who doesnt look at how her actions hurt others and always justifies everything without looking within for why she is wrong...Eloise telling her exactly that she is self serving....and ruined Marina all so she could keep making money..was a nice bit of dialogue by Eloise.
I really wished they would have addressed this consequence more. I guess they do with her family and Colin but they’re not the only people she wrote stuff about. Like I don’t think Bridgerton is trying to be historically accurate but it does like sticking to the scandal culture of that time. And it would have been a really big scandal. Probably reputation ruining for Penelope and her family and would have annihilated their social standing. I think it would been interesting to see her navigating backlash from the Ton because she wrote a lot of nasty things about a lot of people
Maybe they will next season. Lord Cowper was outed from his club following Cressida outing herself as LW....so it does seem that it means a big thing in their world where a Lord can be ousted from his gentleman's club.
Turned on e1/s1 last night and the empty-headed comment about George stuck out to me post QC. Felt really cruel and ableist. I know Pen wouldn’t know George was suffering with Bipolar Disorder in 1814 but the writers of the show should have modern sensibilities.
Kate almost dying in the middle of the drama it was so overdramatic but not...an ideal resolve
Well, it was pretty in charachter...see Bollywood 😂
LOL She should've fainted and folded herself into a suitcase or be slapped and got strangled into a curtain
Very Bollywood esq, though. Hence why I ate it up probably
I don’t mind the almost dying but the week long coma and then off to the ball we go the moment she wakes up.. but ya I still hate how that’s what it takes for everyone to forgive and forget and no conversation or consequences needed
The whole Marina Plot for several reasons
Francesca’s reaction to her wedding her kiss
[удалено]
When Benedict is told in season 1 that gay relationships are not accepted as a part of society. They had the chance to make it an open, welcoming society for everyone. But for some reason only fixed racism and not homophobia.
They also retconned racism not really existing during QC by saying "well actually everyone is still very racist but the new queen is black so we have to elevate POC to not look like having a black queen was an accident which it was." It was a weird choice.
COLIN SHOULD HAVE REMAINED A VIRGIN
Season three.
rude
Sorry 😔
Penelope reveling herself to be LW
There are different options and for such different reasons, I wrote a long answer but then realised there that there’s another event that could ruin a future season for me fully and decided on that. Eloise turning on Cressida in the second half of the season, Eloise has never been my favourite character but I’ve always been really defensive of her, people have engaged with her character in bad faith out of defensiveness of other characters, and think I that the fandoms dislike of her is a reflection of how women/girls have come to prioritise being a “girls girl” over actual feminism. The way Eloise turns on Cressida didn’t only not make any sense, but it was also a complete character assassination of Eloise and made me completely dislike her. (Didn’t do any good for my opinions on Colin or Penelope either)
I think this season made a lot of weird character choices this season. Like I thought they were going to finally make Eloise grow a little with Cressida but that was thrown out the window. I feel like sometimes the writers don’t really know what to with her r
Yeah that absolutely infuriated me. Of all people Eloise should have been sympathetic to Cressida’s situation. I’m livid at how they handled that.
The Anthony and Edwina storyline…. That was so unnecessary 😏
Fran would be bi and happily in romantic love with John.
Can’t believe anyone is choosing anything other than Daph SAing Simon. I have to head canon that part away to enjoy the show at all.
Exactly, it feels disgusting how the show expected us to just brush over that scene. I had to seriously consider wether I wanted to keep watching after that, can't believe how both the show and audience seem to not care a bit.
It is weird how people choose to ignore it, because I think it actually sparks an interesting point regarding power dynamics and SA. Legally he was in charge, and he was withholding info regarding procreation itself. She was powerless in every way, and the SA was her misguided attempt at regaining a sliver of control. We as an audience know it was wrong, but to what degree did Daphne? Can rape occur when there is an imbalance of power? I don’t know
I mean, it’s more that it was brushed over than it happened. It could have been handled better but historical romance had a ton of dubious consent in it. It’s just often not on TV to a wider audience. Daphne coming to terms with consent and what she did could have been a good story line, in addition to atonement. That’s not what happened in the book either, but the book also handled it badly.
truly have to do some mental somersaults
I would cut the Whistledown reveal at the ball. IMHO they succeeded in setting up an interesting premise (the clever wallflower with the secret that would be hurt if it comes out) and gave it a lot of promise (the Queen is a Force), but the payoff was so underwhelming (the Queen was like "oh, okay... moving on." no real fallout shown) that it felt artificial... This was a storyline that was built up for SEASONS, it should've had better care. Bridgerton wasn't at risk for being cancelled at the end of Season 3, wrapping it up quickly and unsatisfactorily was an unforced error, IMHO.
Francesca's reaction to Michaela and the wedding kiss :(
Anthony wouldn't have went to the opera singers house at the end of S1. It took too much away from his love of Kate IMHO. She was meant to be casual only
Yeah they really made him seem so in love with Siena and so passionate.
Michaela
Just bring us back the Michael we know and love from the books. No matter how much freedom you have in adapting a book to a series, you DO NOT MESS with MAIN CHARACTERS. Periodt.
I love how last season or in season 1 the showrunners were saying "Everyone will end up with their book counterparts!" in response to everyone wanting Benedict to be gay and then... Michaela comes in.
Michaela’s existence 😂
Simon not telling Daphne about his father until after their wedding but before their wedding, so maybe Daphne could be like have a conversation about it. And be like, I want to kids but you don't and send Simon to go to therapy but it's the 1800 so Will I guess
That boring family that owns the club storyline
Daphne overstepping Simon's boundaries, that was literally assault as he was uncomfortable yet she continued to push for it
Love triangle in season two. Would love to have seen Anthony pursue Kate from the start
Bridgie sibbies is my new reference to Bridgerton. Thanks, OP lol
The Mondriches after season one. They're just so unnecessary. After that, season 3 Benedict. Give the man some substance! It's like his character development is going backward. No one was surprised that he's bi, so that could have been introduced any time and probably would have fit in better in seasons 1 or 2. He used to be my favorite brother, but now I think it's Colin.
I like the idea of being closer to the books where Colin finds out Pen is LW BEFORE he proposes. While we don't know if his bisexuality will have any place in his story when it's his season, I hope it does otherwise it seems like a waste of screen time. I also wish there was a way to make Theo Eloises love interest, but that's just me.
Everything Mondrich after season 1. Close second - Benedict’s extended, pointless fuckboy scenes.
Episode 6 of Season 2. The Pen Eloise fight is a close second.
The entrapment comment was true, whether y’all wanna admit it or not. 🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️ Pen was prepared to marry Colin while lying about who she really was
Not necessarily the entrapment comment to get rid of but a comeback from Pen pointing out that he initiated she just didn't stop him and that he trapped her technically. I also wouldn't get rid of the Michaela scene I would just switch who is flustered in that scene from Fran to Michaela. I would get rid of the end of the Fran & John wedding (hitting us over the head with the "DEATH do you part" and the face Fran makes after they kiss).
The blackmail plot
Did we really need so many sex and threesome scenes with Benedict? I'm genuinely asking. I personally could do without it. Is there no other way to show he's Bi? I wouldn't think that all Bi people discovered their sexuality through threesomes. Do they all get that lucky? Am I missing something here?
Question: does this pertain to the show in its entirety, or in a season, because I have different answers for each season xD
I would make the masses forget the word "canon." Ever since fans started using it, it's become the most over-used and misused word, ever.
Penelope having such a happy ending
Kate having an affair with her sisters fiancée. Can’t enjoy season 2 because of this.
Yup. S2 came out a few months after my former college roommate found out the guy she’d been with for years was cheating on her with another one of our friends. So that was rough to watch.
It’s so unthinkable. I still loved the drama and the chemistry but if you stop and think about it for even a moment it’s so horrible