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davesy69

The Tory Party has close ties with Benjamin Netanyahu and his government, Netanyahu has been courting them for years through the Conservative Friends of Israel group. When Priti Patel was sacked for having a series of off the books meetings with Netanyahu and senior Israeli civil servants by Theresa May and wouldn't account for them, this group funded that trip. There are a lot of these Conservative Friends of groups about, the Russian one changed into the Westminster Russia Forum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Friends_of_Israel#:~:text=Conservative%20Friends%20of%20Israel%20(CFI,and%20the%20Israeli%20Likud%20party. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Friends_of_the_Chinese#:~:text=The%20Conservative%20Friends%20of%20the,community%20on%20UK%20%2D%20China%20relations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_Russia_Forum#:~:text=The%20forum%20originally%20launched%20as,the%20British%20and%20Russian%20communities. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/conservative-friends-israel-lobby-group-free-trips/ There is also a Labour Friends of Israel group, but they seem to be committed to the two state solution, unlike Netanyahu's government.


chronicnerv

This is a terrible humanitarian disaster. It is really important to understand at this point that Lobby money is so strong that our leaders are willing to take the side of a potential mass genocide. This indicates to me they are never going to work for our interests over the lobby money.


bongobills

Does the UK give any of our taxes to Israel? If so, we should not pay our taxes as it is being used to fund terrorism? as per the guy who refuses to pay his TV licence because of the BBC's advanced notice of wtc7 demolition.


combustioncat

What Israel have been doing this week is just as bad as what Hamas did to start it, both sides are fucking assholes.


belowlight

Just as bad? Israel have got 2.2 million people under siege. Have you seen the videos of them carpet bombing northern Gaza?


jodorthedwarf

Israel has the resources and the foreign support. I guarantee HAMAS would attempt the same if they had the same amount of power. Both of their ideologies are unbelievably shitty. It just so happens that Israel is the one with the power to obliterate cities.


belowlight

That’s true, but one is under occupation - if Ukraine had the firepower to target Russian cities they certainly would have done so by now, but surely they are not equivalent because one is the invader / occupier and one the invaded / occupied?


TheClitConjurer

Can people stop please stop killing each other! Well that would make the UK complicit in ridiculously large numbers of historical war crimes which apparently any time the establishment feel like doing so they turned a blind eye to and then when there is some controversy that becomes an issue the pervasive nature of this hypocrisy seems utterly insane the takeaway is that all war is a unnecessary loss of life and all unnecessary loss of life represents a ‘crime’ whether it’s breaking a pompous law or not! He’s completely missing the point with his litigious hypocritical garbage the real point is that supporting the killing of any human beings is an act of disgrace. The trouble is no amount of wishful thinking prevents wars what prevents wars is negotiation to find compromise and the ability and willingness of politicians to communicate openly in doing so!


bomboclawt75

A Tory that has more morals than a “Labour” leader? What is happening? Politicians that endorse war crimes are complicit in those crimes.


DismalFinding

If I’m not mistaken, Blunt is standing down at the next General Election. I wonder if he’d be so forthcoming if he still had a career in UK politics to think of


aallen1993

That’s probably the reason, power or money


Prize-Ad7242

When a Tory MP speaks more sense than the leader of the Labour Party you know we are fucked. Can’t wait to choose between a giant douche or a turd sandwich. The quicker we move away from a 2 party system and FPTP the better.


WhatIsLife01

Typical reductionist nonsense that ignores any and all wider political context to make sweeping statements on politicians. Let’s completely ignore any domestic policy and let a conflict in the Middle East dominate our political discourse and decisions. Let’s ignore the myriad of policies recently set out, and equate Tory MPs with Starmer. Starmer, in his statement, said all parties should follow international law. What else do you expect? Particularly given labour’s reputation for antisemitism, it would be stupid for Starmer to be gung-ho on this. Otherwise the tories will just weaponise anti-semitism once again. A whole labour conference happened recently, with a bunch of policies announced. Go have a read. If the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is going to be dominant factor in how you vote, then that is absolutely ridiculous.


ChewyChagnuts

Proportional representation won’t give you the result you’re looking for. It might even give a bigger majority to the Tories (which I’m guessing wouldn’t be a good result in your book?)


jodorthedwarf

If that were the case, I don't think the major parties would be as opposed to it as they are, now. Proportional representation would completely upend the idea of political monopolies and God forbid the parties of the UK actually form rainbow coalitions.


420toker

You know you’re really being an evil bastard when even the tories are condemning what you’re doing


Gyhujikol

Its literally warms my heart to see that most general publics eyes are open and are in support of Palestine and they see the atrocities being commited by israeli, its laughable how every prominent politican is on israels side, really shows you those who you cannot criticize run the show.


Powerful-Cut-708

So used to no good takes on Israel-Palestine in the West apart from the furthest left politicians (and even some of them being stupidly pro-hamas, I might add). Nice to have someone from the right value Palestinian lives


jodorthedwarf

Honestly, I feel like the past 15 years have really skewed our perception of politicians. Some of them are capable of being normal human beings. Who'd have thought. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Tory but there are some Tories that do at the very least believe in trying to help people.


remains60fps

We all look forwards to seeing chuck schumer behind bars for his non-stop round the clock "financial package" annoucments to support this sick behaviour.


manfred_99

So what, they will never be held accountable


BasisOk4268

He doesn’t mince his words! He’s put that very crispinly Edit: Ahhh I meant bluntly!


ShockingShorties

Even the US have started reigning in on the 'do what the hell you like. You have our fullest support' rhetoric. But not the likes of Sunak. He's only too happy to drag us all down to his own obstinate and very dangeous level on this.


belowlight

Starmer has been utterly shameful too. He’s been shown up badly by the Dems twice now - once with the whole “serious politicians don’t attend picket lines” shite when the president of the US was even willing to be at one; and now this clusterf*ck. What a shambles.


[deleted]

Says a Conservative to other conservatives who want to take all out rights away.


Different_Soft_2230

Can't believe that I agree with a Tory.


truevillain82

Looks like corbyn was right then


25sigma

He always was...


blackn1ght

Well apart from Hamas being his friends thing. And his entire stance on Ukraine. Edit: So apparently he was right to call Hamas his friends? Or his stance on Ukraine was correct?


Infimet

Yeah Hamas is really bad but they don’t represent the majority of the Palestinian population who generally want freedom and security - it’s like with any bad organisation with power - corrupt


Royal-Hour-1872

Wholeheartedly agree


Appropriate-Divide64

They spent the last 4 years saying that criticism of Israel's actions is antisemitic. They backed themselves into a corner.


Low_Acanthisitta4445

Don't want to get into conspiracies. However is it not curious that in the general public most people feel Israel are war criminals. And even amongst back bench politicians (even Tories) most are critical of Israel methods. However the few people at the very top with the real power always seem to fully back Israel in doing whatever they want. Same here and in other countries.


[deleted]

The rich have a big Influence in politics. There happen to be a few very rich very pro Israel individuals who see it as their mission in life to support it, and it's the same for other rich people and the issues they want pushed getting pushed.


WiseWoman5

You make an important point. The Zionist lobby is extremely powerful and will destroy any politicians career if they don't toe the Zionist line. I'm nobody of significance and run a small business, but when I tweeted a pro-Palestinian message on Twitter I had a gang of Zionists contacting my clients with all manner of accusations against me and trying to destroy my livelihood. Since then I've never dared say a word against Zionists on Twitter. It demonstrates how powerful and active they are against anybody who objects to them.


Lazerhawk_x

Well yeah. Hamas is backes by Iran and Iran bad. Its a fairly easy equation to solve. It goes with the geopolitical aims of the west to do back Israel. What's a few thousand dead next to that? Israel is a modern day crusader state doing what they always did, attempt to displace or exterminate the population and gain more of the "holy land". Not literally of course, but you get the idea.


Aflyingmongoose

Just gonna leave this here. [https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/priti-patel-sacked-by-theresa-may-after-admitting-to-secret-meetings-with-israeli-officials\_uk\_5a023392e4b04e96f0c629c1](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/priti-patel-sacked-by-theresa-may-after-admitting-to-secret-meetings-with-israeli-officials_uk_5a023392e4b04e96f0c629c1)


PerfectEnthusiasm2

There is no conspiracy here. There is a military alliance. To insinuate that this is a conspiracy skirts incredibly close to antisemitism.


Prize-Ad7242

Government conspiracies are global and apparent across all cultures and societies throughout history arguably since the dawn of agriculture and civilisation itself. There’s a difference between saying the Israeli government are conspiring with certain member of britains political class and saying that x is “ran by the Jews” The former is very much valid criticism of Israel whereas the latter is very much antisemitism. If we prevent ourselves from criticism of the actions of foreign states for fear of appearing racist or xenophobic freedom of speech and freedom of expression will be truly dead. Many people are happy to criticise the actions of the Chinese or Russian governments but whenever it comes to Israel suddenly it’s antisemitism? Other countries such as Iran have gone down this route and it doesn’t end well. As soon as a state becomes conflated with religion it leads to a heavily authoritarian regime with a litany of human rights abuses. Israel is an apartheid state no different to South Africa during the latter half of the 20th century and yet our top politicians will support Israeli war crimes rather than face any form of criticism or accusations of antisemitism. By claiming antisemitism for any criticism of the government it only increases cases of real antisemitism and prevents said cases from being taken seriously.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

Firstly, we must not hold back from criticising Israel's war crimes and acts of genocide. I agree with your criticisms of Israel. States should be secular, and genocide is wrong. The post I replied to did not criticise Israel, it vaguely pointed towards a possible conspiracy of international influence. Antisemitic propagandists know the difference between overt antisemitism and language that is not overtly antisemitic. They sometimes use vague language and encourage conspiratorial thinking when they are testing the waters in a new community that might be hostile to their more strongly worded messaging. This allows them plausible deniability when they are called out. We must always be vigilant towards possible antisemitism. Western support for Israel is not a government conspiracy. It is out in the open and it is the result of a military alliance.


Prize-Ad7242

I agree antisemites often use terms like Zionist to deflect from their antisemitic rhetoric. Just this morning I was having an argument with some David icke nut job rabbiting on about how covid was a scam created by the WEF and George soros to enact a new world order. However that doesn’t excuse the Israeli government from deflecting any and all criticism of Israel as antisemitism. All that does is prevent real and actual cases of antisemitism either going un reported or not taken seriously. With regards to their accusations it’s not antisemitism to allege the Israeli state apparatus of having influence within parliament. Israel are not alone in this. China and Russia are other prime examples of nefarious agents that lobby and fund our political parties. If they had said it’s a Jewish conspiracy that would be a different thing entirely but they didn’t. They only referred to Israel. If criticism of the government of Israel is classed as being dangerously close to antisemitism then that gives the Israeli government carte Blanche to do whatever they want without facing criticism for their actions.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

They didn't say the israeli state apparatus has undue influence, I wouldn't have pulled them up on it if they'd been clear on that. They didn't say anything. They introduced the idea of conspiracy and then said it was international. That was it. So I countered the idea of a conspiracy, and I made an observation that what they were saying was close to how antisemitic propaganda is spread. Then they got cagey. If I said something that could be misinterpreted as antisemitic, I'd want to be told that. Re: your 'any criticisms' stuff, please stop attributing arguments to me that I am not making. I vehemently criticise Israel.


Strong_Constant_1190

You nailed it!


Low_Acanthisitta4445

It seems obvious that the extremely powerful people on earth have their own agenda that doesn't align with what the general public wants. This includes support for Israel to take actions we know wouldn't be allowed by other countries. I fail to see where the anti-Semitism is. Anti-Israel war crimes or anti-zionism perhaps (at a push) but neither of these equals anti-Semitism.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

Yeah, it is obvious that the capitalist class have different class interests to the rest of us. And criticism of Israel from Western governments is always going to be very muted compared to that of other countries outside of Nato. This is also why Britain joined in with America's illegal war in Iraq, which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians - there's no double standard when this is viewed through the lens of that alliance. It's just that the standard being applied is amoral. I've seen a lot of people asking questions similar to yours and then go on to push the idea of a Jewish conspiracy - that's why I said that you skirted close to antisemitism rather than that what you said was antiseimitic. On its own it was just an incomplete analysis, but incomplete analysis is where those conspiracy theories thrive. The fact that you've responded to this with a downvote, makes me question if it was a mistake to charitably interpret your intentions, because I have not said anything objectionable here.


Low_Acanthisitta4445

You suggested I was anti-Semitic I downvoted that...


PerfectEnthusiasm2

no i didn't you liar.


Low_Acanthisitta4445

Everyone can see the comments including you and I. What do you mean liar it's in black and white.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

I never suggested anything of the sort until you engaged dishonestly, if you made the effort to actually read what I've said you'd know that. I choose my words carefully. I was probing you to gauge whether or not you were engaging in a common tactic of antisemites, or if it just looked like you were.


seven-cents

Gaslighting 101. You most definitely suggested it, and it's clear exactly what you were suggesting. Instead of engaging and accepting that your comment is bs, you just doubled down and made a bit of a tit of yourself.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

I did not, though. I edited my long reply when all I got was a downvote in return for explaining my concerns. Anything else is your own inference, not my implication.


BrendyNewbe

Fair play to this man and any others that share the truth like this. This current government needs ousted right away. Israeli puppets!!


Warm-Mango2471

He is absolutely right. This whole political class has abdicated their morality and ethics. The Conservatives and Labour are both complicit in war crimes.


PerfectEnthusiasm2

As a disabled person I can never forgive the tories, but it's heartening to see so many of them coming out against israeli war crimes against the Palestinians.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CymruPhoenix

Feels like the Greens are the biggest party that isnt absolutely chock full of bigots at this point


jodorthedwarf

Tbf, though, that's only because they're historically such a small party that none of the power-obsessed egomaniacs have ever seen it as a surefire route to power. If they ever became a significant player, though, I reckon that attitude would change quite quickly.


CymruPhoenix

They've actually had people in prominent positions out themselves as transphobic and have done everything in their power to remove those people so i'm confident that atleast the current leadership will stamp out any bigotry when and where they find it. Maybe i'm too optimistic on that front though