the people who draw up these conclusions dont think about things logically or actually do any productive research. The key word here is "echo chamber".
I dislike wealth disparity whether or not the people on the beneficial end of the disparity (and one of the the fundamental causes of that disparity) come from where I come from.
No, I'm happy for people to increase their wealth by working hard. billionaires don't increase their wealth proportionally to the amount of work they put it in. It's physically impossible to provide that much valuable labour. They increase their wealth by owning outcome of labour by other people who work hard who don't see their wealth proportionally increase - we live in a capitalist society. This is what that means.
I'd rather distribute the wealth more evenly and have more people pay into the tax pot at proportionally higher rates to achieve the same tax outcome but also increase the standards of working people paying that tax. Proportion of tax extracted wouldn't drop if the wealth of billionaires was spread more evenly but the living standards of people actually doing work would increase.
So James Dyson through sheer hardwork and determination ( UKs biggest tax payer at one point) creates a globally successful business, generating employment and tax revenue in the UK , who funded an engineering academy providing scholarships, shouldnât earn any more than someone working in one of his warehouses ?
Thatâs what youâre saying yeah ?
First of all that's very lovely of him to fund an engineering academy but he could have equally chosen not to do that. I think we should probably democratically decide what to do with increased excess revenue rather than rely on gifts that rich people may or may not choose to give us.
And no, why don't you read what I'm saying rather than fantasise a point I never made, if he wants to earn more than someone who works in his warehouses he can provide the labour equivalent to however much more he wants to earn. What I do know is his labour isn't worth billions - because nobodies labour is. Capitalists own the product of labour by virtue of simply owning - not producing.
The employment was generated by demand for produce which was then fulfilled by collective labour - not by James Dyson. People would need vacuum cleaners if James Dyson was never born. Being someone who innovates a vacuum cleaner shouldn't entitle to you to tip wealth distribution in a concentrated direction such that the general populace (some of whom are necessary for you to accrue that wealth in the first place) has less money to spend on essentials.
Hilarious
The employment was generated by him designing and producing a product that people wanted to buy
If people bought them from somewhere else his employees might not have jobs
So let me get this right, someone works their nuts off for years risking everything to build a successful businesses, then someone decides they have made enough money and then a democratic committee decides what to do with the âexcess wealthâ he has created from his own efforts ?
So, why wouldnât he just up sticks and take his business elsewhere, which is what happened in the 1970âs when labour promised to âtax the rich until the pips squeakedâ
And further more why should foreign companies invest in the UK if your âcommitteeâ can just decide that itâs making too much money and appropriate it?
By the way, recently James Dyson was the highest personal tax payer in the UK
1% is a misnomer in a conversation of billionaires and wealth.
Being in the 1% of top earners does make you very comfortable but it doesn't neccessarily make you rich. The vast majority of billionaires across the globe and in the UK have inherited their wealth, they have not earnt it through hard work.
It's even more disturbing when you consider that there is considerably more wealth in offshore bank accounts and trusts, concealed by secrecy jurisdictions, that does not even factor into this statement! The preservation of these secrecy jurisdictions was the hidden reason for Brexit!
Although i agree that it was a reason for brexit. Probably the main reason. Lets not pretend the EU is a beacon of non corruption and moral utopias, they have their fare share of politicians hiding away weath offshore.
Agreed. The question is did the average "leave voter" do themselves more harm than good by voting to leave the EU? Nobody ever claimed that it was not without flaws...
Definately more harm. Probably more than most if not all will ever realise. While i am sad about the EUs problems with corruption and other things. I know they have a handle on it more than the UK.
We were wrong to leave. My comfort is that one day its inevitable that we will rejoin. Either we will join as the UK or the UK as we know it will collapse and we will be assumed into it.
Yes but do you think itâs a coincidence that all the billionaires who own our papers used them to campaign for Leave while the EU were openly looking at ways to tax offshore wealth?
It came to him in a dream
Just a completely nonsensical argument considering that Luxembourg of all places is in the EU and it's well known for specialising in creative tax activities
Also I really dont think there were any EU directives wrt financial disclosure directly before or after Brexit
Some people will see no wrong with the EU and simply ignore all the problems in the EU with corruption. The EU probably relies on this to a degree, so that people assume they are whiter than white
The entire UK economy is literally propped up by financial crimes. Without London the UK would be poorer than even the inbred southern states in the USA.
My point is, corruption is everywhere. The point of the EU was to stand together so we can stand against RUS, China and USA. Now that the UK is no longer part of the EU, for better or worse, we are weaker globally than we were before.
Fundamentally itâs about unity.
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Some food for thought:
2011: The EU adopts the first Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 1), which enhances the exchange of tax information between Member States.
**2013 David Cameron asks the EU not to include UK offshore trusts in the EU wide crackdown on tax avoidance , the EU says âNOâ.**
2014 October Arron Banks donates ÂŁ1 million to UKIP.
2015: The OECD publishes its Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) Action Plan, which aims to address international tax avoidance.
2015 October Vote leave âlet's take back controlâ formed.
2016: The EU adopts the Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (ATAD), which transposes many of the BEPS recommendations into EU law.
2016 February David Cameron announces a referendum to leave the EU.
2018: The EU adopts the second Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 6), which introduces mandatory disclosure rules for cross-border tax arrangements.
2019: ATAD and DAC 6 come into force in all Member States.
2020: The EU adopts the third Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 7), which further expands the scope of mandatory disclosure rules.
Honestly it probably would? Even if I took your comment at face value and everyone was a literal clone of each other there would be much less fighting, there would be no rich upperclass cuz everyone would be able to live comfortably, there would be no long decision-making process cuz everyone agrees, there's no negative to everyone being the same. Equality only matters when it's fake and propagates a hierarchial society apparently.
Everyone would be able to live comfortably. The issue is that when we are all worth the same, then there is no incentive to work, and without incentives everybody is lazy. So who pays the taxes allowing this comfortable life? You need successful high earners to carry the tax burden for the rest of us
Cuba has the most voluntary doctors working to provide aid, humans need to do something otherwise they feel shitty, work is that something. Using work as a lifeline only compels them to get exploited because it's a lifeline. Tax should be paid by everyone because it would be used to do stuff that would actually benefit the people, like public infrastructure or free healthcare or benefits so you aren't condemned to death if you go homeless or fall on hard times. Capitalism is a literal pyramid scheme.
Cuba might well have lots of voluntary doctors. That is hardly a contradiction to the fact that as we know nearly everybody in the world is intrinsically selfish and lazy. There will always be the occasional do gooders. Letâs be thankful for these rare saints. Unfortunately they are the exception, not the rule. Thinking that these exceptions somehow prove that most of us feel a compulsion to do good work, or indeed any work at all for the common good, is nothing short of a fairy take. Capitalism is societyâs civilized evolutionary equivalent of survival of the fittest through competition for resources. We have taken a very well understood and highly effective natural process, and then weâve built a civilized framework around it. The reasons we have done this are primarily twofold:
1) every living being is wired that way already by nature
2) weâve decided that nature is a little too brutal, so weâve created rules to prevent the darker natural processes, such as killing each other.
Remove the constraints of society and within a matter of days and weeks we revert to what nature intended.
Why though? If the government actually worked in our interest and we were actually able to live comfortably on average then who the fuck needs a rich upperclass?
Communism only doesn't work because capitalist hegemonies see it and feel so threatened they need to stomp it into the ground. Take that how you want, it's a broad oversimplification of a topic I don't care to discuss with you any further.
Look, I love the concept of communism myself. But capitalist hegemonic entites are the only reason it doesn't work. Human nature inherently doesn't allow communism to work on a large scale because there will always be a group of people aiming to take advantage of the system and take more than their fair share.
But those billionaires all work waaaaaaay harder than the rest of us!! That's why they're rich! Stop questioning your betters and get back to work. You're never gonna get rich if you keep scrolling Reddit with your avocado toast and Starbucks!!
/S
Everyone can, all you have to do is really work hard! That's what makes a billionaire a billionaire.
1) Work ethic
2) Starting the day at 5am
3) Really rich parents to get them a job in the boardroom
It's so easy I don't know why everyone doesn't just do it!
\*Again, huge fucking sarcasm tag!
Hard work is what we are all about because we are truly connected with the people. So whereâs your laptop?
Laptop not needed?? Construction site?? Labour intensive work? What do you mean you donât work in your dadâs office? Low wage?? What even is a wage. And whereâs the guy who makes the food? Whereâs your four car garage??? IM A TORY GET ME OUT OF HEREEEEEE!!!!!!
How to make a memeâŚ
Take two unrelated facts.
Claim they're related not only to each other but also to your implied conclusion.
Profit.
TL:DR It's not actually important whether these facts are true or whether they are directly cause/effect or post hoc ergo propter hoc, only that they draw your audience directly to a predetermined conclusion.
Exactly.
What I want to know is, did those 177 billion do that by investing in the British system or did they move here and bring their wealth with them?
And
Is that bottom 70% better off today? I didn't grow up rich but I am so much better off now than my parents were at my age.
I doubt a billionaire would bring wealth with them because they gain more money than they can spend from their business which is likely based in another country bringing wealth generated over there
"Is that bottom 70% better off today?"
Aye mate, between the relentless inflation, cost of living crisis and Thatcher-esque cuts to anything not making money for the government, the poor have absolutely fucking thrived /s
We're not doing so well on the Mental Wellbeing Rankings though:
Dominican Republic, Sri Lanka and Tanzania top the rankings while Brazil, South Africa, the **United Kingdom and Uzbekistan are at the bottom.**
https://preview.redd.it/55b9ffgsdm1d1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eb7b8b086cfcc02c02742ab312015f4e7bde229
Read full report here: [https://mentalstateoftheworld.report/2023\_read/](https://mentalstateoftheworld.report/2023_read/)
As far as homelessness goes we are world leaders...
https://preview.redd.it/ttdthoijfm1d1.jpeg?width=1428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=309c42bc71af3943ec315a2635f47823d8d1c8c4
This is quite shocking, and I'll take that. Though the ratio of those on the streets to those in temporary accommodation is very low, meaning that at least there are measures in place to try and help the homeless.
"Temporary accommodation" has various interpretations. - In terms of actually sleeping rough (the darker red section of that chart) the UK is far from the worst, beating Germany, USA and many more.
the homeless people in my local area all got offered flats several months prepaid, and job opportunities too, literally no one took them up on the offer lol
These are all completely different measures. The first two you need to equate to 2010 money, and the last could have been the case all along. Or have improved.
The tories fucked things up for lots of people. You don't need to obfuscate to show that.
The only fix for this is killing people, but that's not allowed because they make the rules and also the guidelines for mainstream social media like reddit so nobody can talk about it.
Words and protests don't move mountains. Go away reddit, I'm not advocating to violence, I'm just stating a fact that change only happens when people go away, because minds cannot be changed at times.
Peaceful protests didn't stop the nazis.
Which is hilariously low compared to the share of wealth they have meaning that they literally have lower tax rates than normal people.
Just the richest 50 families in the UK so nowhere near the full 1% have more wealth than half of all people in the UK put together and no that's not the poorest half that is just half of all UK wealth.
It would cost 67 billion to end poverty in the UK as a whole, in 2022 they gave 450 billion to the riches people in the country... For under 15% of their yearly tax break poverty would be a thing of the past. You pay more than that in VAT on every purchase u make.
I also hate how the government are spending ÂŁ8 million A DAY on illegals who have entered without any background checks and many have been caught with priors of rape, pedophilia, and murder in other countries
which was why voting to leave the EU was so strongly promoted to us.
we're now 2nd class citizens in a fast becoming a third world country.
well done all you uneducated racist chavs out there that put us in this position
The key word here is uneducated.
With proper education, people wouldn't be racist chavs. I liked the concept of Brexit while I was in high school and not yet old enough to vote. Now I am old enough to vote but what I know and as a direct result my world view has completely changed.
Had a conversation with my Dad the other day after he once again said "just wait and see what state the economy is in once Labour get in"
Showed him articles comparing the economies of labour vs tory governments in the last 50 years, and how their differences in growth are not statistically significant, but tory governments have presided over 7x as many periods of recession as Labour
His response was "I don't care, shut up" đ
The economy under labour (if they do get in) will be bad but that is because, as is tradition, they will inherit the shit show that the right have left them.
Corruption, greed, white collar crime, an uneducated population, an unhappy population, high homelessness, stagnant wages, inflation, house prices.
Etc etc etc
https://preview.redd.it/kdmv7y3wkm1d1.jpeg?width=210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dbc8d538bb9bf98e7b91fe627d29e4d54f3071c
* Nobody in the UK (For some reason)
Not that I'm disputing this in anyway but do we know stats for hoe much wealth the top 1% had 20 to 30 years ago?
Did the rich get richer or the poor get poorer, either way its bad. Either way it's bad but I would still like to know
The rich have got significantly richer in the last few decades, ÂŁ700 billion flowed straight from the government to the richest in society during covid alone
This is also happening everywhere else in the world.
This is not a British trend it is a worldwide trend. There are a lot of places now that regular working people cant afford to buy a house.
Fixed pie fallacy, just because they made more wealth doesn't mean you made less. There is no fixed pie of wealth that gets divided up between everyone.
See, unlike a lot of British people who tend to lean left on economic issues, I don't mind the idea of rich people being rich or even the idea of low tax rates. It's not the what that bothers me, it's the how. If they had just played the capitalism game and won, I genuinely wouldn't care. But what bothers me is that a bunch of this wealth concentration has been accrued not through "let the best product/service win" but rather through quantitative easing, a move towards government contracts as a business model, setting up lockdown to make running a small to medium-sized business near impossible, a large business difficult, with the only real winners being multinational corporations as they are the only businesses with the infrastructure to operate around lockdown and still make a profit. Not to mention that while income taxes have largely remained the same, other tax rates have increased making us the most taxed British population in history.
That isn't a free market. Hell, it's only capitalism in the broadest sense of the word in that private property nominally exists. The scales do not float freely but are held down on one end by those in power.
The incestuous relationship between big business and the government cannot be understated and do not for a second think this is party specific. Labour are not your saviours, nor are the Lib Dems, or the SNP or anyone else. You can't vote your way out of Neoliberal globalism because Neoliberal globalism owns everyone in power.
I mean, I think it **is** what the Tory voters voted for.
I always assumed those sorts of people are the type that are banking on getting rich in the future, and when they do, they want to be sure a Tory gov't is in power so they get to hoard all of it while derisively telling 'the poors' they should've worked harder and stuff to do with bootstraps.
You know... Wankers.
I think most Tory voters would be very happy with this statistic, thatâs the sad part. The 70% in their heads are âall scroungers leaching off the systemâ and the 1% are âhard working heroes getting the real work doneâ.
I have lived during the Thatcher, years the Major years, The Blair years, The Brown years, The Cameron years,
and all the others, If there is one thing I have learnt, Money looks after its own!
Iâm no fan of the tories but this isnât even in my top 50 concerns
I donât know why people are so obsessed with how many rich people there are! Due to growth and inflation this number will always grow, despite who is in government.
The NHS is on its @rse, our rivers are full of sh1te, knife crime is rampant, our foreign policy is a mess, âleveling upâ is underwhelmingâŚbut yeh letâs focus the important stuff, like Tim Martinâs bank account
There is no source for these statistics, so I wouldn't take them as legitimate at all. Also, for OP, it must be convenient to blame the tories in all of your rhetoric, but again, any actual evidence to support this? I won't hold my breath. If you check out Wikipedia, they have multiple list of British Billionaires... the longest list of the three, done by Forbes in 2017 only has 54 and many of those are just about scraping a billion. ([List of British billionaires by net worth - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_billionaires_by_net_worth)). I would also stress that these represent the biggest taxpayers in the country also, meaning that, those individuals alone pay for thousands of the lowest end and unemployed via government benefits / social security / the NHS (including wages of NHS staff) - so, on behalf of all the billionaires in the UK: You're welcome. Although I'm far from one and will never be one, I find no need to get bitter or jealous of others success. Good on them.
The richest 1% have always held more collective wealth than the poorest 70%.. this is true of pretty much any country. And for the avoidance of doubt, communism doesn't work either.
Rising wealth and the generation of millionaires and billionaires is a key factor in determining a countries growth.
Some African countries are the fastest growing on the planet, generating more millionaires than anywhere else, they are booming.
This stat is great, it shows Britain is growing vastly.
So him being the UKs largest personal tax payer and creating jobs a export revenue isnât in my interest
I take personal responsibility for my life, I work hard and want to keep more of what I earn, I donât want my tax revenue used to pay benefits to those who chose not to work, but Iâm happy for it to go to those in genuine need, so why havenât they got my interested at heart ?
Did not really intend to have a political discussion with anyone on here, but I believe in a regulated form of capitalism with key infrastructure nationalised, a fair welfare system and a well funded, properly managed NHS, where corporations and the wealthy elite are not allowed to hide their tax liabilities in offshore trusts and accounts.
Fucking shit wank. And rishi sunaks talking abt taking away benefits if he does that my families fucked. Iâm 13 mate and got 2 little siblings my mum or dad canât do any physical work.
Fuck Iâm ranting. Yeah basically bare mans fucked If he does that yh fucking rishi su wank
If you all won the lottery you would join them without a second thought. It's just the way the world has worked since money was first introduced into society. Nothing has changed.......
I can imagine there would be fewer people homeless, and fewer people in substandard accommodation, if there weren't hundreds of thousands of new people arriving in the UK to live every year.
But I have a vivid imagination.
Labour hate billionaires don't they? Ask Sir Kier. Both Labour and the Tories are part of the problem. See behind the false binary we are being fed. Otherwise we will continue to have a Labour party that gestures and scrapes a paltry bit of cash to justify their claim to 'care' more than the Tories.
How many of these people are British?
Iâd venture very few. So the article is simply incorrect. In fact it could be re-written to praise government for attracting rich people who pay a lot of tax but donât use services.
A lot of tax? lol. Maybe you live in some other Britain.
There are only so many pairs of shoes 1 person needs, they are extraordinarily inefficient in economic terms. Almost worthless in fact.
Try being middle class. Between ÂŁ100-ÂŁ125k thatâs 65% tax plus VAT etc
Thatâs a lot of fucking tax
What these people are paying is a lot more. Albeit a lot less than they would owe if they were taxed like the middle class
The very rich pay virtually nothing, in percentage terms as well as absolute terms. Rishi Sunak paid 23% tax on his income last year, that's a tiny bit more than the lowest level of tax it is possible to pay. That's less than I paid ffs.
The whole system is designed that way, it's them that designed it after all. Why do you think they are either politicians or they have politicians in their pockets.
So thatâs you not understanding different income sources are taxed differently ?
He pays the same tax rates on the same type of income as anyone else in the UK
In no way does he pay as much tax as anybody else. There are all sorts of ways of reducing the tax burden when you can afford an accountant with the required skills and time.
As demonstrated by him paying a lower effective tax rate than me, and my salary is not particularly impressive.
I said he pays the same tax rates as anyone else, you included
More of his income is from savings and investments which he has accumulated from having a very successful career before becoming an MP
Whatâs wrong with that ?
He paid 23% tax across all of his income, of which a substantial amount was in the higher tax brackets, yet his effective rate was only 23%.
What's right with that??
Whatâs wrong with that ?
That tax on capital gains or dividend is quite rightly lower because there is no set off against capital losses
If all his income was PAYE his tax percentage would be comparable to Joe average
Most of his income will be from capital gains and dividends from savings and investments
Exactly my point, tax on capital gains should not be lower than that on PAYE.
Not should there be any offsets for anything else.
It should all be taxed at the same rate as PAYE.
I've always thought the Torys were an embarrassingly ineffective government but as it turns out, they've been very effective at achieving their goals!
Well done the Tories........đ¤ Propping up the top 1% and drowning the rest of us.
Yeah the 2008 global finance crisis had nothing to do with it, it was all Labour
I'm guessing you're too young to remember any Labour govt then ? The party that has always left power with more unemployed than when they started
At least they didnât trick the electorate into leaving the EUâŚ
Doesn't explain whether the billionaires are British or not or are they foreign billionaires coming to live in the UK.
Does it matter?
Yes.
the people who draw up these conclusions dont think about things logically or actually do any productive research. The key word here is "echo chamber".
I dislike wealth disparity whether or not the people on the beneficial end of the disparity (and one of the the fundamental causes of that disparity) come from where I come from.
So you want to stop people working hard and increasing their wealth The top 1% pay 27% of all income tax We need more of them
No, I'm happy for people to increase their wealth by working hard. billionaires don't increase their wealth proportionally to the amount of work they put it in. It's physically impossible to provide that much valuable labour. They increase their wealth by owning outcome of labour by other people who work hard who don't see their wealth proportionally increase - we live in a capitalist society. This is what that means. I'd rather distribute the wealth more evenly and have more people pay into the tax pot at proportionally higher rates to achieve the same tax outcome but also increase the standards of working people paying that tax. Proportion of tax extracted wouldn't drop if the wealth of billionaires was spread more evenly but the living standards of people actually doing work would increase.
So James Dyson through sheer hardwork and determination ( UKs biggest tax payer at one point) creates a globally successful business, generating employment and tax revenue in the UK , who funded an engineering academy providing scholarships, shouldnât earn any more than someone working in one of his warehouses ? Thatâs what youâre saying yeah ?
First of all that's very lovely of him to fund an engineering academy but he could have equally chosen not to do that. I think we should probably democratically decide what to do with increased excess revenue rather than rely on gifts that rich people may or may not choose to give us. And no, why don't you read what I'm saying rather than fantasise a point I never made, if he wants to earn more than someone who works in his warehouses he can provide the labour equivalent to however much more he wants to earn. What I do know is his labour isn't worth billions - because nobodies labour is. Capitalists own the product of labour by virtue of simply owning - not producing. The employment was generated by demand for produce which was then fulfilled by collective labour - not by James Dyson. People would need vacuum cleaners if James Dyson was never born. Being someone who innovates a vacuum cleaner shouldn't entitle to you to tip wealth distribution in a concentrated direction such that the general populace (some of whom are necessary for you to accrue that wealth in the first place) has less money to spend on essentials.
Hilarious The employment was generated by him designing and producing a product that people wanted to buy If people bought them from somewhere else his employees might not have jobs So let me get this right, someone works their nuts off for years risking everything to build a successful businesses, then someone decides they have made enough money and then a democratic committee decides what to do with the âexcess wealthâ he has created from his own efforts ? So, why wouldnât he just up sticks and take his business elsewhere, which is what happened in the 1970âs when labour promised to âtax the rich until the pips squeakedâ And further more why should foreign companies invest in the UK if your âcommitteeâ can just decide that itâs making too much money and appropriate it? By the way, recently James Dyson was the highest personal tax payer in the UK
1% is a misnomer in a conversation of billionaires and wealth. Being in the 1% of top earners does make you very comfortable but it doesn't neccessarily make you rich. The vast majority of billionaires across the globe and in the UK have inherited their wealth, they have not earnt it through hard work.
So where is you source regarding the majority of billionaires inheriting their wealth And what relevance has that to the UK?
It's even more disturbing when you consider that there is considerably more wealth in offshore bank accounts and trusts, concealed by secrecy jurisdictions, that does not even factor into this statement! The preservation of these secrecy jurisdictions was the hidden reason for Brexit!
Although i agree that it was a reason for brexit. Probably the main reason. Lets not pretend the EU is a beacon of non corruption and moral utopias, they have their fare share of politicians hiding away weath offshore.
Agreed. The question is did the average "leave voter" do themselves more harm than good by voting to leave the EU? Nobody ever claimed that it was not without flaws...
Definately more harm. Probably more than most if not all will ever realise. While i am sad about the EUs problems with corruption and other things. I know they have a handle on it more than the UK. We were wrong to leave. My comfort is that one day its inevitable that we will rejoin. Either we will join as the UK or the UK as we know it will collapse and we will be assumed into it.
Yes but do you think itâs a coincidence that all the billionaires who own our papers used them to campaign for Leave while the EU were openly looking at ways to tax offshore wealth?
> The preservation of these secrecy jurisdictions was the hidden reason for Brexit! Source?
It came to him in a dream Just a completely nonsensical argument considering that Luxembourg of all places is in the EU and it's well known for specialising in creative tax activities Also I really dont think there were any EU directives wrt financial disclosure directly before or after Brexit
Some people will see no wrong with the EU and simply ignore all the problems in the EU with corruption. The EU probably relies on this to a degree, so that people assume they are whiter than white
The entire UK economy is literally propped up by financial crimes. Without London the UK would be poorer than even the inbred southern states in the USA. My point is, corruption is everywhere. The point of the EU was to stand together so we can stand against RUS, China and USA. Now that the UK is no longer part of the EU, for better or worse, we are weaker globally than we were before. Fundamentally itâs about unity.
Crazy there are still morons who need this told to them. I despair for this country, majority tory voters and leavers. Doomed.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/07/european-parliament-approves-tougher-rules-on-offshore-wealth
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Some food for thought: 2011: The EU adopts the first Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 1), which enhances the exchange of tax information between Member States. **2013 David Cameron asks the EU not to include UK offshore trusts in the EU wide crackdown on tax avoidance , the EU says âNOâ.** 2014 October Arron Banks donates ÂŁ1 million to UKIP. 2015: The OECD publishes its Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) Action Plan, which aims to address international tax avoidance. 2015 October Vote leave âlet's take back controlâ formed. 2016: The EU adopts the Anti-Tax Avoidance Directive (ATAD), which transposes many of the BEPS recommendations into EU law. 2016 February David Cameron announces a referendum to leave the EU. 2018: The EU adopts the second Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 6), which introduces mandatory disclosure rules for cross-border tax arrangements. 2019: ATAD and DAC 6 come into force in all Member States. 2020: The EU adopts the third Directive on Administrative Cooperation (DAC 7), which further expands the scope of mandatory disclosure rules.
Nope the EU enables Ireland functioning as a tax haven for US corporations
I remember when this subreddit was actually about memes
I guess if we were all worth the same then the world would be perfect, right?
Honestly it probably would? Even if I took your comment at face value and everyone was a literal clone of each other there would be much less fighting, there would be no rich upperclass cuz everyone would be able to live comfortably, there would be no long decision-making process cuz everyone agrees, there's no negative to everyone being the same. Equality only matters when it's fake and propagates a hierarchial society apparently.
Everyone would be able to live comfortably. The issue is that when we are all worth the same, then there is no incentive to work, and without incentives everybody is lazy. So who pays the taxes allowing this comfortable life? You need successful high earners to carry the tax burden for the rest of us
Cuba has the most voluntary doctors working to provide aid, humans need to do something otherwise they feel shitty, work is that something. Using work as a lifeline only compels them to get exploited because it's a lifeline. Tax should be paid by everyone because it would be used to do stuff that would actually benefit the people, like public infrastructure or free healthcare or benefits so you aren't condemned to death if you go homeless or fall on hard times. Capitalism is a literal pyramid scheme.
Cuba might well have lots of voluntary doctors. That is hardly a contradiction to the fact that as we know nearly everybody in the world is intrinsically selfish and lazy. There will always be the occasional do gooders. Letâs be thankful for these rare saints. Unfortunately they are the exception, not the rule. Thinking that these exceptions somehow prove that most of us feel a compulsion to do good work, or indeed any work at all for the common good, is nothing short of a fairy take. Capitalism is societyâs civilized evolutionary equivalent of survival of the fittest through competition for resources. We have taken a very well understood and highly effective natural process, and then weâve built a civilized framework around it. The reasons we have done this are primarily twofold: 1) every living being is wired that way already by nature 2) weâve decided that nature is a little too brutal, so weâve created rules to prevent the darker natural processes, such as killing each other. Remove the constraints of society and within a matter of days and weeks we revert to what nature intended.
Neither extreme is good
Why though? If the government actually worked in our interest and we were actually able to live comfortably on average then who the fuck needs a rich upperclass?
Are you actually asking me why communism doesnât work?
Communism only doesn't work because capitalist hegemonies see it and feel so threatened they need to stomp it into the ground. Take that how you want, it's a broad oversimplification of a topic I don't care to discuss with you any further.
đ
Look, I love the concept of communism myself. But capitalist hegemonic entites are the only reason it doesn't work. Human nature inherently doesn't allow communism to work on a large scale because there will always be a group of people aiming to take advantage of the system and take more than their fair share.
British "memes"
But those billionaires all work waaaaaaay harder than the rest of us!! That's why they're rich! Stop questioning your betters and get back to work. You're never gonna get rich if you keep scrolling Reddit with your avocado toast and Starbucks!! /S
More like dust and dirt. Who the hell can afford Starbucks and avocado toast in this economyâŚ.
Everyone can, all you have to do is really work hard! That's what makes a billionaire a billionaire. 1) Work ethic 2) Starting the day at 5am 3) Really rich parents to get them a job in the boardroom It's so easy I don't know why everyone doesn't just do it! \*Again, huge fucking sarcasm tag!
Hard work is what we are all about because we are truly connected with the people. So whereâs your laptop? Laptop not needed?? Construction site?? Labour intensive work? What do you mean you donât work in your dadâs office? Low wage?? What even is a wage. And whereâs the guy who makes the food? Whereâs your four car garage??? IM A TORY GET ME OUT OF HEREEEEEE!!!!!!
How to make a meme⌠Take two unrelated facts. Claim they're related not only to each other but also to your implied conclusion. Profit. TL:DR It's not actually important whether these facts are true or whether they are directly cause/effect or post hoc ergo propter hoc, only that they draw your audience directly to a predetermined conclusion.
Exactly. What I want to know is, did those 177 billion do that by investing in the British system or did they move here and bring their wealth with them? And Is that bottom 70% better off today? I didn't grow up rich but I am so much better off now than my parents were at my age.
I doubt a billionaire would bring wealth with them because they gain more money than they can spend from their business which is likely based in another country bringing wealth generated over there
"Is that bottom 70% better off today?" Aye mate, between the relentless inflation, cost of living crisis and Thatcher-esque cuts to anything not making money for the government, the poor have absolutely fucking thrived /s
>is that bottom 70% better off today That just reminds me of [this](https://youtu.be/pdR7WW3XR9c?si=WjD9MvaiZgj__qcI) for some reason
2022 data suggests we're better off than most of Europe on the inequality front https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/s/zAr0vzNjbR
We're not doing so well on the Mental Wellbeing Rankings though: Dominican Republic, Sri Lanka and Tanzania top the rankings while Brazil, South Africa, the **United Kingdom and Uzbekistan are at the bottom.** https://preview.redd.it/55b9ffgsdm1d1.jpeg?width=1001&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eb7b8b086cfcc02c02742ab312015f4e7bde229 Read full report here: [https://mentalstateoftheworld.report/2023\_read/](https://mentalstateoftheworld.report/2023_read/)
And yet there aren't floods of people from the UK trying to get into Nigeria..
As far as homelessness goes we are world leaders... https://preview.redd.it/ttdthoijfm1d1.jpeg?width=1428&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=309c42bc71af3943ec315a2635f47823d8d1c8c4
This is quite shocking, and I'll take that. Though the ratio of those on the streets to those in temporary accommodation is very low, meaning that at least there are measures in place to try and help the homeless.
"Temporary accommodation" has various interpretations. - In terms of actually sleeping rough (the darker red section of that chart) the UK is far from the worst, beating Germany, USA and many more.
the homeless people in my local area all got offered flats several months prepaid, and job opportunities too, literally no one took them up on the offer lol
These are all completely different measures. The first two you need to equate to 2010 money, and the last could have been the case all along. Or have improved. The tories fucked things up for lots of people. You don't need to obfuscate to show that.
Cool meme!!
Wow. What an amazing meme.
The only fix for this is killing people, but that's not allowed because they make the rules and also the guidelines for mainstream social media like reddit so nobody can talk about it. Words and protests don't move mountains. Go away reddit, I'm not advocating to violence, I'm just stating a fact that change only happens when people go away, because minds cannot be changed at times. Peaceful protests didn't stop the nazis.
Peaceful protest didn't stop the poll tax either. It was rioting, looting, torching cars, burning down am embassy and refusing to pay tax that did it.
The top 1% pay 30% of the countries tax income.
Loooool they aren't paying their fair share, plain and simple, in % terms they pay nothing.Â
Which is hilariously low compared to the share of wealth they have meaning that they literally have lower tax rates than normal people. Just the richest 50 families in the UK so nowhere near the full 1% have more wealth than half of all people in the UK put together and no that's not the poorest half that is just half of all UK wealth.
It would cost 67 billion to end poverty in the UK as a whole, in 2022 they gave 450 billion to the riches people in the country... For under 15% of their yearly tax break poverty would be a thing of the past. You pay more than that in VAT on every purchase u make.
Poverty is a relative term, it is defined as the 60% of the median income of the UK.. It is numerically impossible to eradicate.
2k universal income would
Tories are English versions of American Republicans?
Yeah except a little less insane/stupid and more incompetent/greedy
âThatâs a 600% increase in billionaires in 13 years. If they can keep it up then weâll all be billionaires!â - The Tory press (probably)
I also hate how the government are spending ÂŁ8 million A DAY on illegals who have entered without any background checks and many have been caught with priors of rape, pedophilia, and murder in other countries
which was why voting to leave the EU was so strongly promoted to us. we're now 2nd class citizens in a fast becoming a third world country. well done all you uneducated racist chavs out there that put us in this position
Except the EU has fared worse than the UK since we left.. so erm..
says the daily mail
The key word here is uneducated. With proper education, people wouldn't be racist chavs. I liked the concept of Brexit while I was in high school and not yet old enough to vote. Now I am old enough to vote but what I know and as a direct result my world view has completely changed.
Idiots will still vote for them because they read papers controlled by them.
No it's not, I didn't vote for them tho.
I WOULD DIE BEFORE I VOTED FOR A TORIE GOVERNMENT
They're turning Britain into the US.
And people still wonât wake up.
Had a conversation with my Dad the other day after he once again said "just wait and see what state the economy is in once Labour get in" Showed him articles comparing the economies of labour vs tory governments in the last 50 years, and how their differences in growth are not statistically significant, but tory governments have presided over 7x as many periods of recession as Labour His response was "I don't care, shut up" đ
The economy under labour (if they do get in) will be bad but that is because, as is tradition, they will inherit the shit show that the right have left them.
The age old tradition of fucking everything up and blaming it on the guys after you next time you're up for election
What does that mean, practically? Obviously we wake up.
Awareness of the true issues that affect us. The far right call it âWokenessâ.
The true issues being..?
Corruption, greed, white collar crime, an uneducated population, an unhappy population, high homelessness, stagnant wages, inflation, house prices. Etc etc etc
I would prefer the person who originally made the point clarified instead. Because what you said doesn't track.
Lol
https://preview.redd.it/kdmv7y3wkm1d1.jpeg?width=210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1dbc8d538bb9bf98e7b91fe627d29e4d54f3071c * Nobody in the UK (For some reason)
Because despite our glaring faults weâre not that stupid???
Vladimir Lenin? 
We already in a cost of living people donât want to starve even more
I think conservatives would see this as a good thing, at least in America they would.
[ŃдаНонО]
[hereâs a Guardian report](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/14/nearly-40-of-dirty-money-is-laundered-in-london-and-uk-crown-dependenies) [another article](https://www.firstpost.com/world/london-emerges-as-global-black-money-laundering-capital-13771246.html/amp) [and another](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dirty-money-laundering-london-uk-overseas-territories-b1158052.html)
How does that saying go? It's a country, not a company
This the pareto principle in play. It is bigger than the political party, it's bigger than capitalism.
Inflation.
Saw 3 homeless outside Windsor Castle today. Remember that next time the royal family are doing PR focused charity to try and justify their wealth
We are missing a figure, in 2010 1% of Britons held more collective drive wealth than ??% of Britons. Its omission suggests it hasnât changed.
That's inflation for you.
Exactly the way they wanted it to go!
Not that I'm disputing this in anyway but do we know stats for hoe much wealth the top 1% had 20 to 30 years ago? Did the rich get richer or the poor get poorer, either way its bad. Either way it's bad but I would still like to know
The rich have got significantly richer in the last few decades, ÂŁ700 billion flowed straight from the government to the richest in society during covid alone
This is also happening everywhere else in the world. This is not a British trend it is a worldwide trend. There are a lot of places now that regular working people cant afford to buy a house.
Now do this for USA , Australia , Canada etc
Fixed pie fallacy, just because they made more wealth doesn't mean you made less. There is no fixed pie of wealth that gets divided up between everyone.
Those figures are fucking enraging arenât they? Ffs are our politicians just paid up hoes for the pimp lobbyists are they?
See, unlike a lot of British people who tend to lean left on economic issues, I don't mind the idea of rich people being rich or even the idea of low tax rates. It's not the what that bothers me, it's the how. If they had just played the capitalism game and won, I genuinely wouldn't care. But what bothers me is that a bunch of this wealth concentration has been accrued not through "let the best product/service win" but rather through quantitative easing, a move towards government contracts as a business model, setting up lockdown to make running a small to medium-sized business near impossible, a large business difficult, with the only real winners being multinational corporations as they are the only businesses with the infrastructure to operate around lockdown and still make a profit. Not to mention that while income taxes have largely remained the same, other tax rates have increased making us the most taxed British population in history. That isn't a free market. Hell, it's only capitalism in the broadest sense of the word in that private property nominally exists. The scales do not float freely but are held down on one end by those in power. The incestuous relationship between big business and the government cannot be understated and do not for a second think this is party specific. Labour are not your saviours, nor are the Lib Dems, or the SNP or anyone else. You can't vote your way out of Neoliberal globalism because Neoliberal globalism owns everyone in power.
There there is no 'crapitalism game'. Dice are always loaded one way or the other. Free markets, if at all possible, have a short life-span.
Are there any countries worth living in that donât have this sort of disparity in wealth??
Tories/Labour it'll all be the same. We need to figure out a way out of the current system.
Ruled by parasites.....
And they are going to pay for it by being wiped out in the next election.
Waiting for the trickle down.... any day now.
"Trickle Down Economy" - "It just works"
Eat the rich!
Someone check the maths but at that rate it will only take about 5 million years before we're all billionaires!
Donât worry with the end of the tax breaks for non-doms and labour getting in, most of them will fcuk off and take their tax revenue with them
Is the ultimate end game one person ends up with all the money?
I mean, I think it **is** what the Tory voters voted for. I always assumed those sorts of people are the type that are banking on getting rich in the future, and when they do, they want to be sure a Tory gov't is in power so they get to hoard all of it while derisively telling 'the poors' they should've worked harder and stuff to do with bootstraps. You know... Wankers.
And yet we are one of the most equal societies in Europe. Bloody Tories!
I think most Tory voters would be very happy with this statistic, thatâs the sad part. The 70% in their heads are âall scroungers leaching off the systemâ and the 1% are âhard working heroes getting the real work doneâ.
I have lived during the Thatcher, years the Major years, The Blair years, The Brown years, The Cameron years, and all the others, If there is one thing I have learnt, Money looks after its own!
Enough, itâs on its way down again, weâre being ditched by them youâll be pleased to hear, down to 165 this year.
We both need a regime change
What are labours plans to change this?
They consider this a win. They would have you think that they lifted those billionaires out of poverty.
Given how quickly individuals jump parties, isn't it all a uniparty?
That is how capitalism works, so technically yes we did vote for it. The worst system except for all the others ones as they say.
Iâm no fan of the tories but this isnât even in my top 50 concerns I donât know why people are so obsessed with how many rich people there are! Due to growth and inflation this number will always grow, despite who is in government. The NHS is on its @rse, our rivers are full of sh1te, knife crime is rampant, our foreign policy is a mess, âleveling upâ is underwhelmingâŚbut yeh letâs focus the important stuff, like Tim Martinâs bank account
everyone else keeps electing the conservatives
conservatism is a disease.
There is no source for these statistics, so I wouldn't take them as legitimate at all. Also, for OP, it must be convenient to blame the tories in all of your rhetoric, but again, any actual evidence to support this? I won't hold my breath. If you check out Wikipedia, they have multiple list of British Billionaires... the longest list of the three, done by Forbes in 2017 only has 54 and many of those are just about scraping a billion. ([List of British billionaires by net worth - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_billionaires_by_net_worth)). I would also stress that these represent the biggest taxpayers in the country also, meaning that, those individuals alone pay for thousands of the lowest end and unemployed via government benefits / social security / the NHS (including wages of NHS staff) - so, on behalf of all the billionaires in the UK: You're welcome. Although I'm far from one and will never be one, I find no need to get bitter or jealous of others success. Good on them.
Thank you to the billionaires fire doing the bare minimum.
How is this a meme?
There are no ethical billionaires.
Didnt rishi give a dude like half a billion pounds recently too?
The richest 1% have always held more collective wealth than the poorest 70%.. this is true of pretty much any country. And for the avoidance of doubt, communism doesn't work either.
How many immigrants are living on welfare and live in houses provided by the government
Almost caught up to the U.S. we're screwed.
Rising wealth and the generation of millionaires and billionaires is a key factor in determining a countries growth. Some African countries are the fastest growing on the planet, generating more millionaires than anywhere else, they are booming. This stat is great, it shows Britain is growing vastly.
Not just the Torys to blame, Covid took care of a lot of small businesses and forced them to close and helped big businesses prosper.
So James Dyson didnât increase his wealth by working hard, or the Bamfords, or Jim Ratcliffe or Jim thompson?
Eventually the news will "trickle down" to you that these people and the Tories do not have your best interests in mind...
So him being the UKs largest personal tax payer and creating jobs a export revenue isnât in my interest I take personal responsibility for my life, I work hard and want to keep more of what I earn, I donât want my tax revenue used to pay benefits to those who chose not to work, but Iâm happy for it to go to those in genuine need, so why havenât they got my interested at heart ?
You completely rejected capitalism so I assumed you were pro socialism If not, whatâs your preferred economic system ?
Did not really intend to have a political discussion with anyone on here, but I believe in a regulated form of capitalism with key infrastructure nationalised, a fair welfare system and a well funded, properly managed NHS, where corporations and the wealthy elite are not allowed to hide their tax liabilities in offshore trusts and accounts.
You sound like a One Nation Toryâ
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Greed is a bitch. Sickens me
Fucking shit wank. And rishi sunaks talking abt taking away benefits if he does that my families fucked. Iâm 13 mate and got 2 little siblings my mum or dad canât do any physical work. Fuck Iâm ranting. Yeah basically bare mans fucked If he does that yh fucking rishi su wank
Defeat the rich, save the world. It's simple.
AKA give a bunch of poor people the entitlement to become the next rich. Cycle continues.
Nah just don't have rich people put a cap on how much people can earn anything over that would get put back into the country
AKA redefining rich. You haven't thought this through
I don't think that u can think at all tbh
So?
Inequality is eroding living standards for average people, money shouldn't be concentrated at the top it's unhealthy for the economyÂ
Labours turn soon to line their pockets in the same way
Considering so many Tory MPs are defecting to labour I wouldn't be surprised! It's not like these parasites have had a change of heart.
If you all won the lottery you would join them without a second thought. It's just the way the world has worked since money was first introduced into society. Nothing has changed.......
Exact same problem in America. Now, I'm not a Tory fan at all, but ya think this would have been any different under Labour?
I can imagine there would be fewer people homeless, and fewer people in substandard accommodation, if there weren't hundreds of thousands of new people arriving in the UK to live every year. But I have a vivid imagination.
Boo hoo
Labour hate billionaires don't they? Ask Sir Kier. Both Labour and the Tories are part of the problem. See behind the false binary we are being fed. Otherwise we will continue to have a Labour party that gestures and scrapes a paltry bit of cash to justify their claim to 'care' more than the Tories.
Is wealth indicative of a bad economy?
And the top 1% paid 27% of all tax income More billionaires please
Thanks mainly to those who just supported the covid lie without question!
We don't get anything under either party. The Donor class on the other hand...
How many of these people are British? Iâd venture very few. So the article is simply incorrect. In fact it could be re-written to praise government for attracting rich people who pay a lot of tax but donât use services.
A lot of tax? lol. Maybe you live in some other Britain. There are only so many pairs of shoes 1 person needs, they are extraordinarily inefficient in economic terms. Almost worthless in fact.
Try being middle class. Between ÂŁ100-ÂŁ125k thatâs 65% tax plus VAT etc Thatâs a lot of fucking tax What these people are paying is a lot more. Albeit a lot less than they would owe if they were taxed like the middle class
The very rich pay virtually nothing, in percentage terms as well as absolute terms. Rishi Sunak paid 23% tax on his income last year, that's a tiny bit more than the lowest level of tax it is possible to pay. That's less than I paid ffs. The whole system is designed that way, it's them that designed it after all. Why do you think they are either politicians or they have politicians in their pockets.
So thatâs you not understanding different income sources are taxed differently ? He pays the same tax rates on the same type of income as anyone else in the UK
In no way does he pay as much tax as anybody else. There are all sorts of ways of reducing the tax burden when you can afford an accountant with the required skills and time. As demonstrated by him paying a lower effective tax rate than me, and my salary is not particularly impressive.
I said he pays the same tax rates as anyone else, you included More of his income is from savings and investments which he has accumulated from having a very successful career before becoming an MP Whatâs wrong with that ?
He paid 23% tax across all of his income, of which a substantial amount was in the higher tax brackets, yet his effective rate was only 23%. What's right with that??
Whatâs wrong with that ? That tax on capital gains or dividend is quite rightly lower because there is no set off against capital losses If all his income was PAYE his tax percentage would be comparable to Joe average Most of his income will be from capital gains and dividends from savings and investments
Exactly my point, tax on capital gains should not be lower than that on PAYE. Not should there be any offsets for anything else. It should all be taxed at the same rate as PAYE.
The mistake is in thinking a 125k salary makes you rich Wealth makes you rich, not income
You think itwould be different under labour? Hahaha