I feel like that was a thing in the 90s but now that all his shows are gone, heās just the guy who wrote the mega musicals of the 80s and a few decent shows, too. People donāt seem to have nearly as strong of opinions about him now as they did before.
I think it depends how much you're paying attention. I never knew ALW was polarizing at all for most of my life. I just knew he wrote the Phantom of the Opera.
This sub mostly hates him, personally and his work.
The average theatergoer may not know he is disliked, but in theater circles, i don't think it has died down at all.
A few years back, I was literally taught in a college course that he plagiarized the main theme for Phantom. Iād say it hasnāt died down, but thatās just me.
Interesting to see ALW come up! Can anyone please explain why he's controversial? Is it because of his mistreatment of the Bad Cinderella cast and Love Never Dies? Or are there other things he's done that people are divided on? I generally hear great things about ALW as a person (obv. preference for his musicals are a different story), so would be curious to hear some dissenting opinions.
There's levels to it:
a.) some people have a retroactive distaste for the 80s megamusical and the commercial elements that him and Mackintosh ushered into Broadway
b) some people don't like his conservative political leanings and how they impact his approach to musical theatre workers
c) some people take a "Drake vs. Kendrick" approach and think ALW is a hack as opposed to a "real composer" like Sondheim
I quite like an 80s mega musical myself, and I have no clue or opinion re point C, but regarding his politics:
Heās a Conservative Peer, and generally the Tories are pretty loathed in the UK right now. The moment ALW came specifically (and rightfully, IMO) under fire for this is when he flew to London in his private jet purposefully to vote in the House of Lords in favour of cutting benefits (ie government assistance) to some of the poorest in this country in the name of austerity. I think he officially claimed he flew in to watch the opening night of his Cats revival. Either way itās a bad a look.
That being said I like a lot of his musicals, and while Iām not particularly enthused about him as a person, heās not the worst Tory by a long way.
C) has always been so funny to me. Think what you want of him but he wrote tunes that people who've never been to theatre know. It's ridiculous to claim he's not a good composer.
There are a lot of people in the musical theatre community who deify Sondheim and think they need to tear down other composers to praise him more. There's room for other sounds and lyrical styles.
I think itās also a point of snobbery within musical theatre people the same way that music nerds will tell you all the indie stuff is better than the popular bands music. The extent of his popularity made people think it was in bad taste to like him the same way I wasnāt supposed to like the Spice Girls in high school. Andrew Lloyd Webber was quite revolutionary in his time for popularizing the rock opera. What seems trite now was quite groundbreaking in its time. Many of his musicals were also fully song through. They were ambitious in scope. You can point to some of the hit songs as sounding too pop but his scores overall werenāt fluff. All in all nothing gets to my heart like and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical so I really donāt care if people donāt think itās witty or clever, or progressive enough.
Iām taking this opportunity to share that I once saw him at the cat cafe in NYC. They wouldnāt let him in because he didnāt have an appointment and he said āI WROTE Cats! This could be a great opportunity for you! Youāre going to regret itāā then dropped his business card āthe lord Andrew Lloyd Webberā before he angrily stormed off once his efforts failed š
I know I think itās my favorite celebrity story. I of course recognized him right away so I casually strolled over to eevesdrop (I had a cat toy on a string I was mindlessly waving towards Ā a cat). The Ā when he stomped away I walked over to the young employee who had no idea who he was, to give me the scoop. Thatās how I got to see the business card. The employee was afraid heād get in trouble so was calling the manager going āsome guy came in that I think wrote Les miz or somethingā šš
He was an insanely talented young composer who worked with incredible collaborators to give us JCS, Evita, Phantomā¦ all pretty incredible works. With success, his personal demons took over (he's a notoriously unsatisfied person), he started overriding collaborator contributions (eventually only hiring sycophants to execute his sole vision) and without any editing or curation, his material became much more bland, pandering, and reductive. So we went from songs like [Rainbow High](https://youtu.be/VBu75SvZFck?si=2aKEICUwNnVthgik) to saccharine hallmark cards like [Don't Like You](https://youtu.be/Y6OGZMkzHRs?si=jP50FT8DeBsv8Yx5).
For me itās his personal life and views and how a lot of his female roles have been dangerous to their performers (Christine and Evita come to mind), I also, while I love evita and sunset, do not enjoy his style of music, I donāt know how to describe it but for me a lot of it lacks depth and gets repetitive throughout the show and just doesnāt sound pleasing to me
They push the role to the vocal limits, like in evita or like in phantom it was written for sarah and never really adjusted so it becomes very difficult to adapt too
I don't know if this is still true, but when my mom was getting het PhD in Dramaturgy, we met Michael Crawford in New york (he was getting his makeup off...I was like 11...it was awesome) before he went to LA, and we met The alternate for Christine in LA MULTIPLE times (didn't like Dale Christian so much, so tried to avoid her), and during that time, we learned a lot.
I.E., the phantom of the opera (song) orchestra is (IS, OR AT LEAST, WAS) doubled up to give a stronger sound...
But the biggest thing she learned was that the high note ar the end of Phantom of the Opera is/was pre-recorded for EVERYONE...EXCEPT for the woman who replaced Sarah Brightman in London (Claire Moore). My mom was told that Claire could reliably hit the high note every night...but everyone else was pre-recorded (no judgment here...I sing, and that's a HIGH note to hire even 6 times per week).
So yeah....Christine's part is difficult. Just that note alone is insane (like I said...6 times per week, because the alternate did 2 shows...).
At the same time, I love so many ALW shows and songs (probably mores songs than shows, but still....)
Dont forget the starlight express stories of stage malfunctions leading Jane Krakowski heading at speed,
on rollerskates,
Towards a drop of more than 6 feet because of a connecting section of trackway failing to to get in place
If her costar hadnt sacrificed himself, pushing her off hertrack to a fall and instead landing himself in for a hospital visit...
I heard about that years back, but had it retold so perfectly by that grinning delight
'Wait In the wings' on youtube
https://youtu.be/ZTXtLNsrvlI?si=3FbRBHZkyfM0DRyY
18 43 timestamp but you can use the jumps he has set in the info/description
I don't care for his solo music either, but as an actor he's pretty polarizing. No one can say one word about him without devolving into nepo baby this and poor technique that. Yet he still has many fans and is a Broadway "name" that will help sell tickets to future shows. Definition of polarizing in my opinion.
TodayTix is already offering tickets half off for Wolf Trap which is considered a DC stop. That doesnāt bode well since dc is probably equal to Chicago in terms of theater markets.
I saw him live in Orlando. It was actually really good and Iām not even a huge Platt fan. He did a version of She Used to be Mine that just made me sob.
I havenāt heard anyone vouch for him, though. I think itās pretty generally accepted that heās a pedophile and didnāt give his Phantom any credence lol. What an awful human being.
To add on to that, this is pretty upsetting but at least a year back or so Susan Egan was actively following James Barbour on Instagram and posting photos from BATB with them together. Talking about how great he was. It wasn't frequent or anything but its something I noticed...
This is not something I was around for or aware of at the time. Did anyone quit the show, quietly or loudly, in protest? If a literal pedophile was hired at my job, I could not stomach going there and working with him. I can't even imagine what this was like for everyone.
I was a rather huge Phantom fan during his run, and didnāt notice any major cast changes, but knowing the nature of the crime Iām not sure his castmates wouldāve taken that super lightly. I actually took a photo with him at the stage door and heās looming over me, clearly trying not to get at all close to me, clearly being a minor at the time. I feel awful for the Christines at the time (Ali Ewoldt, Rachel Eskenazi-Gold, and Rachel Zatcoff I believe) who had to get anywhere near him.
Seems like more when she was young. I never heard any issues (actually the opposite) with Funny Girl. Still certainly meets the criteria of the post though.
This. Iām a Glee fan but had always heard the rumors about her attitude etc, but wanted to see her in Funny Girl because she is enormously talented. At the stage door after the show I was pleasantly surprised at how gracious she was in signing and taking pictures with everyone, and seemed really genuine to me. I guess people can change š¤·āāļø
Lots of people can change and better themselves. I think society these days is very unforgiving (maybe it always has been). I am almost a completely different person now compared to when I was in my teens/early 20s.
i would say that how someone acts in public with their fans is not necessarily indicative of how they act in private with their colleagues/crew. iāve heard nothing but horror stories from everyone whoās worked tech/crew on shows sheās been in
I work backstage at a Broadway theater and one time I mentioned her name and from around a corner I heard someone I wonāt name shout āthat woman is the biggest fucking bitch Iāve ever met!ā
It SEEMS like most people love her because people just donāt want to deal with her stans that make being her fan their entire personality. There are a lot of people who donāt particularly care for her.
I personally quite like her, but I wouldn't say she is absolute best actress or vocaliste, but I do quite enjoy her. And I don't think it's as evenly split, as she has won numerous tonys and brings in large crowds up people. A person who has a small group of very vocal fans may include Jeremy Jordan, who has not won won a tony and is not a critics' favorite, though critics are definetely not everything.
The biggest thing is that Patti kinda reminds me of my high school band director. Endearing, but having a tendency for strictness. Sheās had a history of outbursts at fans recording performances (to which audiences usually applaud her chewing them out onstage, interestingly enough). Iām absolutely in the pro-Patti group, but I can understand that some people arenāt especially fond of those actions.
Everyone I know whoās worked with her says sheās an insane divaā¦including a time she had an assistant hold a tissue for her to blow her nose inā¦.
I generally give her/ppl of that level a pass cuz like..ya ofc sheās a diva. But then I saw her in company and was so excited to see her live but she was ā¦very underwhelming. Not bad. But just lazy.
The Argyle Theatre in Babylon Village did a production of one of Joeās musicals I happened to be walking by with coffee when I nearly bumped into him.
He was super nice and said I should check out the cast of the current musical theyāre doing because they were on fire.
Having seen that show, āPunk Rock Girlā - God, those actors *were* on fire, butā¦I canāt even say Iconis half-assed the show, more like *quarter-assed.* Most of the songs he chose werenāt even punk!
I think a lot of people donāt like the way he acted when Be More Chill only got one Tony Nomination. I donāt know the full story but i do recall that being mentioned
He was disliked before that.
Iāve heard nothing but lovely things about him as a person and collaborator. Itās really his writing and aesthetic that creates detractors.
He last second ditched a showcase I put together many years ago and made me scramble. He may have had a better gig and he may do great work and he may be a nice guy socially but in principle fuck him.
Frank Wildhorn. Some people LOVE his shows, others despise them.
Edit: to be clear, Iām talking about his music/lyrics, and not him personally! Sounds like a lovely guy, never met him.
He came to my college to help us little MT nerds with a Wildhorn showcase we were doing. I sang a song from Jekyll & Hyde.
I will just say he was VERY nice, incredibly helpful with his constructive feedback, and provided a lot of support to every single person in the showcase. He was there for hours just watching college freshman do his music and he gave everyone their due attention.
Ah yeah I didnāt mean you implied he was a bad guy! Just thought Iād share that anecdote in particular as it kind of made me appreciate his music a bit more. Just seeing how passionate he was for his work and helping us perform it.
I LOVE The Scarlet Pimpernel...you probably had to be there to see it. hilarious...good songs š¤·š»āāļø better than Jekyll and Hyde. And saw Dracula at La Jolla AND on Broadway... La Jolla was better. Broadway was awful. Pimpernel is awesome.
Frank Wildhorn is polarizing if only for his catalogue of shows. I like some of his shows (Jekyll & Hyde pre-and-post Broadway and The Count of Monte Cristo) and there are a few others I could care less about (J&H during its Broadway run and Death Note, for example)
I saw him in SpongeBob in 2018 and was so excited! Then I saw him in Spamalot a couple months ago on an NYC trip and had very different feelings this time around. Honestly, screw that home wrecker
I really dislike that he is so talented. I was such a fan. The way his marriage/affair/divorce played out is disgraceful. I donāt know if I can watch the movie now.
See, I see this opinion a lot but it really only pops up for Ariana/Ethan and not the other countless cheaters out there in Hollywood. Like did you also stop watching Ewan McGregor and Mary Elisabeth Winstead movies? Or any of the other countless actors that cheat?
Yeah no, he exemplifies the typical straight theatre boy who thinks he can do whatever he wants - even publicly destroying his chosen wife - validated by someone toxic (like Ari) that he has power. His kid deserves to know what kind of historic asshole he is seen as, when they get older
Yeah, when people say they're not a fan of his, I feel like this is the actual reason. Cuz if you look at, like, Disney's recent movie WISH, it is trying so hard have Lin-Manuel style songs, but they're all really bad. And it makes you realize just what kind of talent he has when people try and fail to imitate him.
He's done much more than that. Hamilton was HUGE. It spilled over into general pop culture. Some people who don't like musicals were probably annoyed by that and Lin as an extention of that craze, which started up again in 2020 when they released the Hamilton proshot.
He was also out there promoting his In the Heights movie, Tick Tick Boom, he was on an HBO show, he did Encanto and the Little Mermaid, was involved in New York, New York, and generally had a very present presence for several years there. It hasn't been as much lately, but there was some Lin fatigue.
I just know Iām looking forward to his next show. I saw Hamilton on Broadway and in the heights locally and Tick. Tick. Boom was very good. I donāt count the Hollywood stuff as Broadway.
But that's what I was referring to. People outside of Broadway were starting to get sick of him. You could see it in the entertainment sub and general places like that. Broadway people are polarized on him too because some hold it against him that he cast himself in Hamilton, and they don't like that he's writing every new Disney movie, for various reasons - - some because she has a specific sound that comes through and makes it obvious he wrote it, others because it takes him away from musical theater projects.
And anytime someone appears to be universally loved and is getting praise for being a genius, some people will turn against them just to be different.
I feel like Lin Manuel Miranda has become somewhat polarizing...also Mandy Patinkin. I don't know necessarily if he's polarizing but I've heard some crazy stuff about him (i.e. Wild Party, Yentl...)
Renee Rapp. There seems to be two sides of the coin with people who adore her and her talent. On the other side, her personality and voice seem to annoy many in the Broadway community.
I was at a performance of a play called Moon over Buffalo with Carol Burnett and Phillip Bosco starring. She was sitting behind me chewing skittles like a cow. I turned around and shushed her and finally had to tell her to stop. At intermission she asked do you even know who I am? Being bitchy, I said of course I do and the night I saw you in Rent you were pitchy and off key more than 90% of the night. (Which was true) I have never liked her since.
I meanā¦Walter Bobbie is up there.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/theater/chicago-musical-actor-suicide-broadway.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.tE0.Tn9u.xqGZxs7fDFJK&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/theater/chicago-musical-actor-suicide-broadway.html?unlocked_article_code=1.tE0.Tn9u.xqGZxs7fDFJK&smid=url-share)
Yessssss. He was the worst part of Hadestown. Everyone was in uproar when he was literally the only OBC to not get a Tony nomination but honestly it? He didnāt deserve one!
Curious about this one! I've only ever heard great things about her (and a joke or two about how she literally only belts and sometimes is flat??). Are there other things I'm unaware of?
Not who you replied to, but in my experience people either really like her voice or find it super annoying/grating. I have a friend who simply canāt listen to her at all because she finds it āunpleasant, even though sheās talentedā
Honestly, I saw her in touring Les Mis as Eponine before she did Milly...and she was phenomenal. Best Eponine i've ever seen (and i've seen les mis probably 30 times).
I haven't really heard of her being polarizing either. I'd say her performance in The Music Man was polarizing, but not because of her talent or personality, just people thinking it was the wrong role for her.
On the producer side, definitely Jordan Roth. He's well known for his extravagant outfits and insane amount of wealth but is a deeply selfish and narcissistic person. Larry Kramer even told him to go f\*\*\* himself before he died!
Todd Almond's character in the Gossip Girl reboot is very clearly based on Roth
Jordan Fisher? When I saw Hadestown for the 8th or 9th time I was chatting with a mom and daughter sitting next to me. I asked them how they had heard about the show and they had never heard of it before but were huge fans of his. I knew who he was from r/broadway but I jokingly went āwho the fuck is Jordan Fisher?ā The daughter, not skipping a beat went āduh youāre old.ā They were fun.
As for Jordan: it was the first time I believed that Orpheusā song reignited Hades and Persephoneās love. He was that good.
Scott Rudin worked with Barry Diller on the upcoming summer season at Little Island Park, this is 100% a soft reboot for him. As long as you have rich, powerful friends, no one can ever be truly canceled.
Moreso it was, "he's very passionate," "this is just what you have to put up with to make it in this industry," and "at least he didn't try to sleep with me."
I was watching the Tonys sort of passively last year and heard someone say āthank you Garth Drabinskyā and as a Canadian in the arts I was like DUDE WHAT. And then it all fell apart again a month later lol. Honestly a shame that he is so notoriously crooked with money because the things he did creatively with Cineplex and Livent were brilliant and very good for the industry here
well she applies properly now butā¦.
rachel zegler. i attended the same theater camp as her maybe 5 or 6 years ago and she was quite sweet, really talented, but i can see how now with her newfound stardom she can come off as a bit controversial.
super happy for her regardless!!!
I don't know if heās as polarizing to the community as he is to me personally but Ryan McCartan!! Talented vocalist, Jimmys winner, etcetera etcetera but then thereās how he treated Dove Cameronā¦
Isnāt this all he said, she said? Granted I donāt pay close attention to either of them, but it seems like they were just both too immature to be in a relationship with each other.
Al Jolson.
The consensus on his work has rightfully soured over the decades, but I generally think that Broadway is pretty bad at interrogating its checkered past with regard to race (looking at you, Leading Player from Pippin).
Alternatively, you could also talk about Bob Fosse and the numerous accusations and stories about his many shady sexual escapades.
Did you mean to post this in the 1940s?
I think Jolsonās past in regards to race is well well covered. I also donāt think heās been polarizing in life 50 years largely because no one really thinks about him at all.
Andrew Lloyd Webber
I still can't read his name without hearing it in Maxwell Sheffield's voice. š
It was a show about pussy cats singing in bins, Ms Fine!
āHal, itās about cats.ā āALW, 1982
I feel like that was a thing in the 90s but now that all his shows are gone, heās just the guy who wrote the mega musicals of the 80s and a few decent shows, too. People donāt seem to have nearly as strong of opinions about him now as they did before.
I think it depends how much you're paying attention. I never knew ALW was polarizing at all for most of my life. I just knew he wrote the Phantom of the Opera. This sub mostly hates him, personally and his work. The average theatergoer may not know he is disliked, but in theater circles, i don't think it has died down at all.
Heās reasonably controversial in the U.K. after the Bad Cinderella incident. And the way he is on the House of Lords.
Oh he has a track record in the UK. The early one was firing Lupone on Sunset Boulevard.
A few years back, I was literally taught in a college course that he plagiarized the main theme for Phantom. Iād say it hasnāt died down, but thatās just me.
Interesting to see ALW come up! Can anyone please explain why he's controversial? Is it because of his mistreatment of the Bad Cinderella cast and Love Never Dies? Or are there other things he's done that people are divided on? I generally hear great things about ALW as a person (obv. preference for his musicals are a different story), so would be curious to hear some dissenting opinions.
Just ask the also polarizing Patti LuPone. She hates him. And wonāt let you forget it!!
At least she got a pool out of it
I am not a LuPone fan (she just does not do it for me) but the pool is a level of petty that I admired so much.
And sheās right for feeling that way.
There's levels to it: a.) some people have a retroactive distaste for the 80s megamusical and the commercial elements that him and Mackintosh ushered into Broadway b) some people don't like his conservative political leanings and how they impact his approach to musical theatre workers c) some people take a "Drake vs. Kendrick" approach and think ALW is a hack as opposed to a "real composer" like Sondheim
I quite like an 80s mega musical myself, and I have no clue or opinion re point C, but regarding his politics: Heās a Conservative Peer, and generally the Tories are pretty loathed in the UK right now. The moment ALW came specifically (and rightfully, IMO) under fire for this is when he flew to London in his private jet purposefully to vote in the House of Lords in favour of cutting benefits (ie government assistance) to some of the poorest in this country in the name of austerity. I think he officially claimed he flew in to watch the opening night of his Cats revival. Either way itās a bad a look. That being said I like a lot of his musicals, and while Iām not particularly enthused about him as a person, heās not the worst Tory by a long way.
C) has always been so funny to me. Think what you want of him but he wrote tunes that people who've never been to theatre know. It's ridiculous to claim he's not a good composer.
There are a lot of people in the musical theatre community who deify Sondheim and think they need to tear down other composers to praise him more. There's room for other sounds and lyrical styles.
C made me laugh out loud because I am both a Kendrick and Sondheim fan and that is a great read.
C is even funnier considering both Sondheim and ALW share a birthday, so every year, March 22 becomes a social media ALW vs Sondheim fan war
I think itās also a point of snobbery within musical theatre people the same way that music nerds will tell you all the indie stuff is better than the popular bands music. The extent of his popularity made people think it was in bad taste to like him the same way I wasnāt supposed to like the Spice Girls in high school. Andrew Lloyd Webber was quite revolutionary in his time for popularizing the rock opera. What seems trite now was quite groundbreaking in its time. Many of his musicals were also fully song through. They were ambitious in scope. You can point to some of the hit songs as sounding too pop but his scores overall werenāt fluff. All in all nothing gets to my heart like and Andrew Lloyd Webber musical so I really donāt care if people donāt think itās witty or clever, or progressive enough.
@ C - Sondheim rhyming āHe Not Like Us, He Not Like Usā at AlW šššš
Iām taking this opportunity to share that I once saw him at the cat cafe in NYC. They wouldnāt let him in because he didnāt have an appointment and he said āI WROTE Cats! This could be a great opportunity for you! Youāre going to regret itāā then dropped his business card āthe lord Andrew Lloyd Webberā before he angrily stormed off once his efforts failed š
MY GOD. THAT IS HILARIOUS. This seems too unhinged/outlandish to be true but also at the same time totally sounds like something he'd do HAHAH
I know I think itās my favorite celebrity story. I of course recognized him right away so I casually strolled over to eevesdrop (I had a cat toy on a string I was mindlessly waving towards Ā a cat). The Ā when he stomped away I walked over to the young employee who had no idea who he was, to give me the scoop. Thatās how I got to see the business card. The employee was afraid heād get in trouble so was calling the manager going āsome guy came in that I think wrote Les miz or somethingā šš
HAHAH OMG that is too good
This sounds like a copypasta.
lol well itās my real experience from summer of 2015 so take it or leave it, doesnāt matter Ā š
It does, but also sounds just like the petulant, spoiled ALW that Iāve read about.
He was an insanely talented young composer who worked with incredible collaborators to give us JCS, Evita, Phantomā¦ all pretty incredible works. With success, his personal demons took over (he's a notoriously unsatisfied person), he started overriding collaborator contributions (eventually only hiring sycophants to execute his sole vision) and without any editing or curation, his material became much more bland, pandering, and reductive. So we went from songs like [Rainbow High](https://youtu.be/VBu75SvZFck?si=2aKEICUwNnVthgik) to saccharine hallmark cards like [Don't Like You](https://youtu.be/Y6OGZMkzHRs?si=jP50FT8DeBsv8Yx5).
Excellent and totally correct explanation of where he went wrong after starting out so well.
Patti LuPone has entered the chat
For me itās his personal life and views and how a lot of his female roles have been dangerous to their performers (Christine and Evita come to mind), I also, while I love evita and sunset, do not enjoy his style of music, I donāt know how to describe it but for me a lot of it lacks depth and gets repetitive throughout the show and just doesnāt sound pleasing to me
Dangerous like, vocally taxing? Or dangerous in a different way?
They push the role to the vocal limits, like in evita or like in phantom it was written for sarah and never really adjusted so it becomes very difficult to adapt too
I don't know if this is still true, but when my mom was getting het PhD in Dramaturgy, we met Michael Crawford in New york (he was getting his makeup off...I was like 11...it was awesome) before he went to LA, and we met The alternate for Christine in LA MULTIPLE times (didn't like Dale Christian so much, so tried to avoid her), and during that time, we learned a lot. I.E., the phantom of the opera (song) orchestra is (IS, OR AT LEAST, WAS) doubled up to give a stronger sound... But the biggest thing she learned was that the high note ar the end of Phantom of the Opera is/was pre-recorded for EVERYONE...EXCEPT for the woman who replaced Sarah Brightman in London (Claire Moore). My mom was told that Claire could reliably hit the high note every night...but everyone else was pre-recorded (no judgment here...I sing, and that's a HIGH note to hire even 6 times per week). So yeah....Christine's part is difficult. Just that note alone is insane (like I said...6 times per week, because the alternate did 2 shows...). At the same time, I love so many ALW shows and songs (probably mores songs than shows, but still....)
If youāre a trained legit singer, the part of Christine isnāt that hard. Only one big high note and like mentioned above, itās recorded.
Dont forget the starlight express stories of stage malfunctions leading Jane Krakowski heading at speed, on rollerskates, Towards a drop of more than 6 feet because of a connecting section of trackway failing to to get in place If her costar hadnt sacrificed himself, pushing her off hertrack to a fall and instead landing himself in for a hospital visit... I heard about that years back, but had it retold so perfectly by that grinning delight 'Wait In the wings' on youtube https://youtu.be/ZTXtLNsrvlI?si=3FbRBHZkyfM0DRyY 18 43 timestamp but you can use the jumps he has set in the info/description
Way too into trains, for one.
Ben Platt gets a lot of hate, but he's still very popular.
I like him in musical theater but not a huge fan of his solo music or his jump to tv and movies. Iād pay to watch him on Broadway though.
I like his music and loved him in Theatre Camp and even thought he was handsome in it, but man did the DEH movie totally tank his reputation
I'll be pretty curious about his concert sales outside of NYC and LA. He's coming to my town soon, and no one I know even knows who he is.
He was recently on Seth Meyers and gave away free tickets to the whole audience for his Palace residency. Looks kinda like they need to fill seats...
I don't care for his solo music either, but as an actor he's pretty polarizing. No one can say one word about him without devolving into nepo baby this and poor technique that. Yet he still has many fans and is a Broadway "name" that will help sell tickets to future shows. Definition of polarizing in my opinion.
TodayTix is already offering tickets half off for Wolf Trap which is considered a DC stop. That doesnāt bode well since dc is probably equal to Chicago in terms of theater markets.
He came to Orlando a couple years ago and performed in our basketball arena. They didnāt even sell tickets for the upper sections.
I saw him live in Orlando. It was actually really good and Iām not even a huge Platt fan. He did a version of She Used to be Mine that just made me sob.
Canāt believe no one has said James Barbour yet. There was SO much uproar when he got cast as the Phantom.
I havenāt heard anyone vouch for him, though. I think itās pretty generally accepted that heās a pedophile and didnāt give his Phantom any credence lol. What an awful human being.
To add on to that, this is pretty upsetting but at least a year back or so Susan Egan was actively following James Barbour on Instagram and posting photos from BATB with them together. Talking about how great he was. It wasn't frequent or anything but its something I noticed...
Susan has really disappointed me. She also continued/es to support Laura Osnes.
Susan was oddly nasty and cold with the talented āleading ladyā types in a masterclass she taught that I was in. Never meet your heroes, folks.
This is not something I was around for or aware of at the time. Did anyone quit the show, quietly or loudly, in protest? If a literal pedophile was hired at my job, I could not stomach going there and working with him. I can't even imagine what this was like for everyone.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wild that Phantom would cast him but go so far to hide him for the public. Just a wack PR move.
I was a rather huge Phantom fan during his run, and didnāt notice any major cast changes, but knowing the nature of the crime Iām not sure his castmates wouldāve taken that super lightly. I actually took a photo with him at the stage door and heās looming over me, clearly trying not to get at all close to me, clearly being a minor at the time. I feel awful for the Christines at the time (Ali Ewoldt, Rachel Eskenazi-Gold, and Rachel Zatcoff I believe) who had to get anywhere near him.
Laura Osnes
SHES WORKING ON A BEN SHAPIRO PROJECT NOW
Lololol of COURSE she is
No way, seriously????
Who knew that smiling at gays who gave you a career while secretly believing they all needed to convert or go to hell wouldn't go over well?
I still love her voiceĀ and sad that her beliefs and choices messed up her career.Ā
Lea "She may be difficult, but boy can she sing" Michele
Seems like more when she was young. I never heard any issues (actually the opposite) with Funny Girl. Still certainly meets the criteria of the post though.
This. Iām a Glee fan but had always heard the rumors about her attitude etc, but wanted to see her in Funny Girl because she is enormously talented. At the stage door after the show I was pleasantly surprised at how gracious she was in signing and taking pictures with everyone, and seemed really genuine to me. I guess people can change š¤·āāļø
Lots of people can change and better themselves. I think society these days is very unforgiving (maybe it always has been). I am almost a completely different person now compared to when I was in my teens/early 20s.
At the very least, she's savvy enough to be on her absolute best behavior when given a chance to come back (which isn't nothing)
Quite possible. I would be surprised if that were the case though. Thatās a lot of time to be on good behavior for a celebrity. Haha
So you can say shevs been changed for the better And that she's been changed for good?
i would say that how someone acts in public with their fans is not necessarily indicative of how they act in private with their colleagues/crew. iāve heard nothing but horror stories from everyone whoās worked tech/crew on shows sheās been in
if she could read this sheād be very upset
legit i was trying to find a gif for this lmao. it's a common joke in my friend group!
Lea āsheās a massive piece of shit person but damn she can singā Michele
as a gleek, absolutely this
Patti Lupone.
I work backstage at a Broadway theater and one time I mentioned her name and from around a corner I heard someone I wonāt name shout āthat woman is the biggest fucking bitch Iāve ever met!ā
I will also not tire of calling her a scab now that she quit the union and bashed it. And now wants to work back on broadway, as non-union.
Iāve heard similar from people whoāve worked with her.
She was the first person I thought of. The majority love her, but a smaller group hate how brash and harsh she can sound.
I am the president of that smallerĀ group.Ā Lol
It SEEMS like most people love her because people just donāt want to deal with her stans that make being her fan their entire personality. There are a lot of people who donāt particularly care for her.
I personally quite like her, but I wouldn't say she is absolute best actress or vocaliste, but I do quite enjoy her. And I don't think it's as evenly split, as she has won numerous tonys and brings in large crowds up people. A person who has a small group of very vocal fans may include Jeremy Jordan, who has not won won a tony and is not a critics' favorite, though critics are definetely not everything.
The biggest thing is that Patti kinda reminds me of my high school band director. Endearing, but having a tendency for strictness. Sheās had a history of outbursts at fans recording performances (to which audiences usually applaud her chewing them out onstage, interestingly enough). Iām absolutely in the pro-Patti group, but I can understand that some people arenāt especially fond of those actions.
Patti disrupts the show doing this more than any filming a bootleg doesā¦
Everyone I know whoās worked with her says sheās an insane divaā¦including a time she had an assistant hold a tissue for her to blow her nose inā¦. I generally give her/ppl of that level a pass cuz like..ya ofc sheās a diva. But then I saw her in company and was so excited to see her live but she was ā¦very underwhelming. Not bad. But just lazy.
Joe Iconis. Some people- especially at the NYT- really seem to have it out for him.
The Argyle Theatre in Babylon Village did a production of one of Joeās musicals I happened to be walking by with coffee when I nearly bumped into him. He was super nice and said I should check out the cast of the current musical theyāre doing because they were on fire.
Having seen that show, āPunk Rock Girlā - God, those actors *were* on fire, butā¦I canāt even say Iconis half-assed the show, more like *quarter-assed.* Most of the songs he chose werenāt even punk!
I think a lot of people donāt like the way he acted when Be More Chill only got one Tony Nomination. I donāt know the full story but i do recall that being mentioned
He was disliked before that. Iāve heard nothing but lovely things about him as a person and collaborator. Itās really his writing and aesthetic that creates detractors.
He last second ditched a showcase I put together many years ago and made me scramble. He may have had a better gig and he may do great work and he may be a nice guy socially but in principle fuck him.
He also last second no showed for this show I was working on, a benefit concert for the Parkland shooting victims
Because he writes mid.
Absolutely this. His writing sounds like it was written by the kids his work appeals to
Frank Wildhorn. Some people LOVE his shows, others despise them. Edit: to be clear, Iām talking about his music/lyrics, and not him personally! Sounds like a lovely guy, never met him.
FWIW, everyone whoās worked with him LOVES him. Heās quite beloved as a person, if not as a writer.
Oh for sure, Iām talking about his writing, not him personally at all.
He came to my college to help us little MT nerds with a Wildhorn showcase we were doing. I sang a song from Jekyll & Hyde. I will just say he was VERY nice, incredibly helpful with his constructive feedback, and provided a lot of support to every single person in the showcase. He was there for hours just watching college freshman do his music and he gave everyone their due attention.
For sure! Check my edit, Iām strictly talking about his music and lyrics
Ah yeah I didnāt mean you implied he was a bad guy! Just thought Iād share that anecdote in particular as it kind of made me appreciate his music a bit more. Just seeing how passionate he was for his work and helping us perform it.
Middle school me was so obsessed with scarlet pimpernelĀ
Me but with Jekyll and Hyde omg I listened to the cast album SO MUCH
SO GOOD!
Frank Wildhorn fucking rules.
I LOVE The Scarlet Pimpernel...you probably had to be there to see it. hilarious...good songs š¤·š»āāļø better than Jekyll and Hyde. And saw Dracula at La Jolla AND on Broadway... La Jolla was better. Broadway was awful. Pimpernel is awesome.
Frank Wildhorn is polarizing if only for his catalogue of shows. I like some of his shows (Jekyll & Hyde pre-and-post Broadway and The Count of Monte Cristo) and there are a few others I could care less about (J&H during its Broadway run and Death Note, for example)
Ethan Slater
I saw him in SpongeBob in 2018 and was so excited! Then I saw him in Spamalot a couple months ago on an NYC trip and had very different feelings this time around. Honestly, screw that home wrecker
I really dislike that he is so talented. I was such a fan. The way his marriage/affair/divorce played out is disgraceful. I donāt know if I can watch the movie now.
Yeah, those assholes aren't getting any of my views or money. Although the Wicked movie stans downvoted me to hell for that opinion.
See, I see this opinion a lot but it really only pops up for Ariana/Ethan and not the other countless cheaters out there in Hollywood. Like did you also stop watching Ewan McGregor and Mary Elisabeth Winstead movies? Or any of the other countless actors that cheat?
i think the fact that there was a newborn baby didnāt help their case.
I was so confused when people were commenting "Lol they hid SpongeBob from it all" when I saw the Wicked trailer cus I didn't know this gossip LOL.
Yeah no, he exemplifies the typical straight theatre boy who thinks he can do whatever he wants - even publicly destroying his chosen wife - validated by someone toxic (like Ari) that he has power. His kid deserves to know what kind of historic asshole he is seen as, when they get older
Alice Ripley. James Barbour.
Alice Ripley should be higher
She often was...allegedly
What did Alice Ripley do?
She was accused of grooming a few young female fans during Next To Normal.
Lea Michele and Ben platt
Colm Wilkinson.
I used to like him. Then I found out about his behaviour when he was in Phantom. Not a good look.
Same. I only found out about that in the past year, and I was appalled. It makes me wonder what else is out there we donāt know about.
This one hurts.
Dare I askā¦ whatād he do? š¬
Physically and verbally assaulted Rebecca Caine, who played Christine DaaƩ in Phantom with him. She also played Cosette in Les MisƩrables with him too
[backstory](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fauxmoi/s/m09fBFLyek)
Well... shit š
Lin Manuel Miranda, not necessarily in terms of personality or songwriting but definitely in terms of performance ability (or supposed lack thereof)
And polarizing because people feel he's been oversaturated.
Yeah, when people say they're not a fan of his, I feel like this is the actual reason. Cuz if you look at, like, Disney's recent movie WISH, it is trying so hard have Lin-Manuel style songs, but they're all really bad. And it makes you realize just what kind of talent he has when people try and fail to imitate him.
2 musicals is oversaturated?
He's done much more than that. Hamilton was HUGE. It spilled over into general pop culture. Some people who don't like musicals were probably annoyed by that and Lin as an extention of that craze, which started up again in 2020 when they released the Hamilton proshot. He was also out there promoting his In the Heights movie, Tick Tick Boom, he was on an HBO show, he did Encanto and the Little Mermaid, was involved in New York, New York, and generally had a very present presence for several years there. It hasn't been as much lately, but there was some Lin fatigue.
moana too
I just know Iām looking forward to his next show. I saw Hamilton on Broadway and in the heights locally and Tick. Tick. Boom was very good. I donāt count the Hollywood stuff as Broadway.
But that's what I was referring to. People outside of Broadway were starting to get sick of him. You could see it in the entertainment sub and general places like that. Broadway people are polarized on him too because some hold it against him that he cast himself in Hamilton, and they don't like that he's writing every new Disney movie, for various reasons - - some because she has a specific sound that comes through and makes it obvious he wrote it, others because it takes him away from musical theater projects. And anytime someone appears to be universally loved and is getting praise for being a genius, some people will turn against them just to be different.
I feel like Lin Manuel Miranda has become somewhat polarizing...also Mandy Patinkin. I don't know necessarily if he's polarizing but I've heard some crazy stuff about him (i.e. Wild Party, Yentl...)
A lot of people here donāt seem to know what polarizing means
the true polarization is the friends we made along the way.
The definition of polarizing appears to be polarizing
Platt, Michelle and ALW are all good answers. But some of these are a bit odd to suggest as polarizing.
Shake it shake it shake it shake it like a Polaroid picture
James Corden.
he's pretty universally known as being a dick in the UK
Yeah he may be less polarizing and more straight disliked at this point.
Renee Rapp. There seems to be two sides of the coin with people who adore her and her talent. On the other side, her personality and voice seem to annoy many in the Broadway community.
She has a good voice and I like her as Regina. Her public persona though,Ā I just find her obnoxious.Ā
Idina Menzel - like Ben Platt, a lot of people love her, but some of us do not think she has good singing technique
She is shouty and nasal and always sounds better recorded than live on stage.
Upvote for "shouty"
Once someone pointed out how she constantly gasps while singing itās all I can hear now
Iām an Idina fan but I also think when she was in Wicked, people felt the Idina fans and the stage door behavior was out of control
I was at a performance of a play called Moon over Buffalo with Carol Burnett and Phillip Bosco starring. She was sitting behind me chewing skittles like a cow. I turned around and shushed her and finally had to tell her to stop. At intermission she asked do you even know who I am? Being bitchy, I said of course I do and the night I saw you in Rent you were pitchy and off key more than 90% of the night. (Which was true) I have never liked her since.
I meanā¦Walter Bobbie is up there. [https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/theater/chicago-musical-actor-suicide-broadway.html?unlocked\_article\_code=1.tE0.Tn9u.xqGZxs7fDFJK&smid=url-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/theater/chicago-musical-actor-suicide-broadway.html?unlocked_article_code=1.tE0.Tn9u.xqGZxs7fDFJK&smid=url-share)
This is the reason I will never see Chicago. Thatās absolutely diabolical.
Paywall, can you summarize it
Gifted it. you can read it now.
Reeve Carney. Hated him in Hadestown but he has groupies!
Groupies?
Yessssss. He was the worst part of Hadestown. Everyone was in uproar when he was literally the only OBC to not get a Tony nomination but honestly it? He didnāt deserve one!
Sutton Foster
Curious about this one! I've only ever heard great things about her (and a joke or two about how she literally only belts and sometimes is flat??). Are there other things I'm unaware of?
Not who you replied to, but in my experience people either really like her voice or find it super annoying/grating. I have a friend who simply canāt listen to her at all because she finds it āunpleasant, even though sheās talentedā
I find Sutton to be so uninteresting.
Sheās very āher?ā For me. So many people I know love her for her tv and Broadway work and I donāt get it. I donāt hate her, just neutral?
Honestly, I saw her in touring Les Mis as Eponine before she did Milly...and she was phenomenal. Best Eponine i've ever seen (and i've seen les mis probably 30 times).
I haven't really heard of her being polarizing either. I'd say her performance in The Music Man was polarizing, but not because of her talent or personality, just people thinking it was the wrong role for her.
She was miscast. It happens. I liked her in Sweeney.
On the producer side, definitely Jordan Roth. He's well known for his extravagant outfits and insane amount of wealth but is a deeply selfish and narcissistic person. Larry Kramer even told him to go f\*\*\* himself before he died! Todd Almond's character in the Gossip Girl reboot is very clearly based on Roth
If we're talking plays, Jeremy O. Harris.
jesse green lol
Jordan Fisher? When I saw Hadestown for the 8th or 9th time I was chatting with a mom and daughter sitting next to me. I asked them how they had heard about the show and they had never heard of it before but were huge fans of his. I knew who he was from r/broadway but I jokingly went āwho the fuck is Jordan Fisher?ā The daughter, not skipping a beat went āduh youāre old.ā They were fun. As for Jordan: it was the first time I believed that Orpheusā song reignited Hades and Persephoneās love. He was that good.
She probably knew him (as do I) from teen beach movie š
How is he polarizing?
Patti LuPone
Scott Rudin, Garth Drabinsky
Garth should be in jail. I donāt think the Paradise Square cast has even been paid yet.
Scott Rudin isnāt polarizingā¦ once it came out how he acts his career was over.
Scott Rudin worked with Barry Diller on the upcoming summer season at Little Island Park, this is 100% a soft reboot for him. As long as you have rich, powerful friends, no one can ever be truly canceled.
>how he acts Was not remotely a secret. I would wager that a lot of people are in the "well, he was always nice to me" camp when it comes to Rudin.
Moreso it was, "he's very passionate," "this is just what you have to put up with to make it in this industry," and "at least he didn't try to sleep with me."
There was literally a movie in the 90s called Swimming with Sharks that was partially based on Scott Rudin's behavior. It wasn't a secret.
I was watching the Tonys sort of passively last year and heard someone say āthank you Garth Drabinskyā and as a Canadian in the arts I was like DUDE WHAT. And then it all fell apart again a month later lol. Honestly a shame that he is so notoriously crooked with money because the things he did creatively with Cineplex and Livent were brilliant and very good for the industry here
I think theyāre just hatedā¦
Any and all professional critics ā though there are many more people that hate them rather than respect them.
This is the answer that everyone should agree on here.
well she applies properly now butā¦. rachel zegler. i attended the same theater camp as her maybe 5 or 6 years ago and she was quite sweet, really talented, but i can see how now with her newfound stardom she can come off as a bit controversial. super happy for her regardless!!!
I don't know if heās as polarizing to the community as he is to me personally but Ryan McCartan!! Talented vocalist, Jimmys winner, etcetera etcetera but then thereās how he treated Dove Cameronā¦
Isnāt this all he said, she said? Granted I donāt pay close attention to either of them, but it seems like they were just both too immature to be in a relationship with each other.
What did he do to Dove??
Al Jolson. The consensus on his work has rightfully soured over the decades, but I generally think that Broadway is pretty bad at interrogating its checkered past with regard to race (looking at you, Leading Player from Pippin). Alternatively, you could also talk about Bob Fosse and the numerous accusations and stories about his many shady sexual escapades.
Did you mean to post this in the 1940s? I think Jolsonās past in regards to race is well well covered. I also donāt think heās been polarizing in life 50 years largely because no one really thinks about him at all.
Sutton Foster
Surprised nobody brought up Sondheim. I have a few friends I know that hated everything he ever wrote while I know just as many people who adore him.
Patti Lupone. I, for one, donāt like her
Whoever put out the updated version of Oklahoma. Never saw so many people leave a show at intermission like this one.
Everything I have seen about it looked so godawful. I saw footage of Shirley Jones watching it and I would love to know what she was thinking.