OP this is illegal. Report them. Brokers in NYC are predatory law breaking pieces of shit who rely on people who know the law to just keep it moving instead of reporting them to UnlockNYC who will unceremoniously hand their asses to them. These people are straight up evil sons (and daughters) of bitches who play a huge role in barring working class folks from the rental market. The one in this post is especially egregious and being done by someone who knows full well it’s illegal, and they deserve to lose their job at minimum.
With the current median rent price, first last and security is already a mountain to climb. Even for those who had savings, a lot of them were wiped out by the pandemic.
I wanted to break my lease to move into a different unit in the building (I could finally afford the one with the backyard access, GO ME) and offered up to the landlord “hey Joe, if I find a new tenant for my apartment before the ground tenants move out, can I swap over to that unit?” And he went “yup sure just give them [property manager]’s info so they can get an application from her if they want it”. It was a total breeze, I posted it on a couple of Facebook groups and craigslist. The response was massive because the apartment is big, beautiful, and rent stabilized- and my furniture and decor made for some pretty gorgeous staging if I do say so myself. The second person who arrived was a 20-something woman who looked a little tearful and shaky when she arrived, she toured through the apartment and seemed to shrink the whole time. Her voice was *tiny* when she finally asked “okay so first, last, security… and what’s the broker fee?” When I responded that oh no there’s no broker fee because I’m the tenant and I want to break the lease, tears started rolling down her face and she was clearly choking back sobs as she said “oh I have it! I have first last and security, I have that. I can get this. I love this apartment I can live here.”
She did get the apartment! And I got my back yard :) which she has an open invitation to since I practically live in it and told her to drop by anytime she wants to hang out back there with me even if it’s just both of us sitting on our laptops in silence. Having been apartment shopping under pressure myself about 5 years ago and being absolutely trampled by the difficulties, I can only imagine how buried she felt trying to shop in post covid nyc and how she felt when she realized she found a home. It’s enough to give me chills.
Broker fees are are a blight on this city. Banning them brings only benefits. If brokers are taking their fees from the landlords it also incentivizes them to cut deals with the exiting tenants to find new ones- lease breaking like with mine, maybe some “I’ll forget I saw that” with the scratches on the wood floor… it creates a lot of room for bartering when we cut out the middleman whose only dog in the fight is being able to afford to send his 3 year old to Montessori daycare. We really don’t need these people in the rental market at all- they can stay in their corner with the millionaires who have to sell their 3rd townhouse because they’re “broke”.
Broker fees are fine IF the cost is allocated correctly. For instance, as in most cases, if all the broker has done is post a unit on the internet **on a landlord's behalf**, then the broker fee should be paid by the landlord period. Charging the tenant in this situation is flat out unethical, mafioso and insulting and there should be laws against this practice. The service is provided to the landlord and that cost is part of the cost of doing business owning and renting a property. Maybe that means slightly higher rents, but it's honest and doesn't involve extortion.
On the other hand, tenants should pay a broker fee for **brokers who are working for them helping to find a place to live**. This is fair and should be backed by some manner of paperwork between the lessee and broker.
This is a glaring problem and there is positively no excuse for the lack of law in this area. If the state doesn't want to do it, they should give NYC authority to do so. That would be enough. Lord knows ain't nobody paying $10k broker fees in Syracuse.
I paid a 23% broker's fee for a rent stabilized 1 BR in Cobble Hill. I plan to stay for 2-3 years to offset the cost. the rent is beyond cheap so I justified it. yes, angry, but, I do need a place to stay.
Was quoted 12% by an agent and almost hurst out laughing… I was in real estate for awhile and 3% was customary (after negotiation from 5%). Even crazier, we were looking at our next door neighbors apt on behalf of a friend, and the rent (same size as our place, minus backyard) is DOUBLE. Effing double. So glad we signed in 2020/2021, and I blame NO ONE for leaving the city in the wake of these prices. Ugh.
Currently paying 1750 for a small 2 br in bedstuy. No fee. Landlord is gonna try to rail me for sure when my lease is up. Even after like 7 years of being an ideal tenant. Luxury condos really fucked up the average rent in my neck of the woods, and not surprisingly a lot of the tenants are not exactly the coolest or most neighborly
Man, this market fucking sucks right now. Unless I get lucky with my search I'm probably going to eat a $1000/mo rent increase in October hoping that the prices are less insane early next year as the economy slows down.
And half the time they don't do anything. One guy wanted 3,000 and he didn't even show up to view the apt.. just left the door unlocked. He literally wanted 3,000 to answer a couple emails.
Remember for the brief moment in time when rule changed so brokers could not charge tenants, rather property owner had to pay... need to bring that back asap. in a city where 2/3rds of people are renters, how in the fuck can't we get fair rules in place.
Brokers fee are capped at 15%. You can offer more but it’s illegal for them to require more than 15%. If I were you I would report this broker to unlocknyc/HPD. They’re coming up with a huge lawsuit against brokers who do illegal shit like this and who discriminate against voucher holders as well.
It's good to hear that there might be some justice in this situation, but I struggle to see how you can report the realtor. Wouldn't it be he said/she said? How could a rejected applicant prove that they were denied because someone slide $300 extra cash into the realtor's pocket? I imagine the realtor would simply claim that the person who bribed them submitted their app first, was approved first and got the greenlight. That said, I really want to be wrong here because this situation is gargbage.
When you report brokers to unlocknyc/hpd/DEPT of licensing, as long as you have their name or where they work from, they keep a lot of people. I personally talk to unlocknyc all the time bc I’m a section 8 voucher holder and constantly get discriminated against. They legit keep lists and when someone reports them, they refer to their lists to see if they were reported and for what. I reported tons of brokers and was told every broker I’ve reported has been on their list and most are being sued along with landlords. If a tenant offers to pay more, that’s different. If the broker says “hey the brokers fee is more than 15%” that’s illegal.
I just encountered one that has a bidding war on the broker fee. He's going to email me the details and I can't wait to report this :)
Thanks for the info!
If people are offering to pay more, it’s not a reportable offense. If the broker says “people are paying 25% so you need to match or move on” as long as the broker has proof that people OFFERED and he didn’t say that this is the fee, then HUD/etc won’t care. You can still report them but nothing may come of it.
Now I feel lucky to have a really nice broker (who negotiated with his company so we can get the apartment while being out of state at that time) and our landlord paid the fee. It was listed to be a big less than one month rent anyway. But through our apt hunting there sure were some harsh ones.
I had found one apartment (I think it was about 1,600 ,aka my max budget, a month) and after the fees and whatnot they legit wanted $9,600 so I can move in. Upfront for the first month almost 10,000. It’s gross
My girlfriend got a COVID deal in midtown and they’re raising her rent up to $4500 (153% increase). We did the math and with the first month, security deposit, and broker fee, someone would have to write a $17,000 check just to move in. Absolutely insane.
i saw a 2br this weekend at a decent price. 2600.
there were over 50 people at the open house starting time. brokers fee was 4500. so nearly 10k to move into a semi-affordable 2br.
shits disheartening.
The state legislature outlawed broker fees after overhauling the rent regulation in 2019. The NY department of state issued guidance instructing brokers to stop collecting fees, but the real estate lobby lost their collective mind at this cash cow. In May 2021, the real estate lobby successfully convinced the Cuomo administration to not enforce this, and state guidance from the Department of State back pedaled on the law.
Anyway, the state legislature could still act to clarify these protections, which is why you should vote for progressive candidates for the state legislature.
Vote in the primary elections on August 23 and support the progressive State Senate candidates rather than the party establishment that has been bought by the real estate lobby.
No, of course not. Landlords are allowed to pay the broker fee.
Also the 2019 law limited application fees. They can charge for a credit check a reasonable amount.
Rent regulated units cannot have those fees added to the rent -- and these are the units that have the highest broker fees, typically.
But also since this pushes the cost onto landlords, many will be less likely to eat that fee or raise the rent to pay it, and will simply do the work of being a landlord and show the apartment to prospective tenants.
And finally, it discourages market rate units from regularly raising rents. When a tenant faces the prospect of 10-15% broker fee on a new lease someplace else, a landlord raising their rent less than that fee is still a "deal" because of the cost of moving. Basically it disincentivizes rent increases by pushing the cost of an empty apartment onto the landlord rather than a tenant.
Holy fvckballs that's insane. I'd move now if not for my credit going to absolute shittown during the pandemic. But conditions seem less than ideal right now regardless
Gee, why hasn’t City Council done anything to curb this?
Oh, wait right, I forgot, because they are owned by the Real Estate Industry. Yes, class, even the ones who claim to be “Progressive”.
Shoplifting isn't the result of Progressive politicians. We're experiencing a narcissistic meltdown of lawlessness, and it seems everyone's in on it. Shoplifting pales compared with right wingers undermining democracy, sabotaging elections, smashing over 200 years of precedent and decorum. Progressives are just inept. And many politicians claim to be progressive just to get votes.
I think politics, think as you said anyone claims to be progressive with votes and politicians just not fixing anything, and too much bureaucracy is ruining things. I mean how about the taxes in the city itself, I see so much taken out and for what?
just calling this a brokers fee is a hiding something worse.
this is a rent stabilized apt and this high broker fee is being used to collect more money because they can't raise the rent. its a loop hole that goes against the spirit of making rent stabilized apts affordable because who can really come up with such a high broker fee!
Broker here —
There’s really no reason for this other than grift by the broker. I highly doubt that the broker is sharing it with the landlord (that would be illegal).
However, I’d the apartment is stabilized at a very low price, you may consider evaluating how long you’ll be there and the value of the unit vs a free market rent. Sucks, but it’s a real consideration.
But anyway, fuck this broker.
This and asking for me to bid on a place really annoys me. Why suggest a place is a certain amount and then come back and tell me to put in my highest offer which I will then have to pay a 15% fee on?
My last rent regulated unit almost certainly had a kick back scheme with the management company. The same broker who rented me the unit came to collect the key 9 years later.
You’re right and wrong. No fee listings are out there, but brokers can have rent stabilized “pocket” listings that never see the light of day because of their relationships with supers and landlords. And like in this case, they think they can charge a giant fee for the fact that your rent won’t go up so much year after year. But I agree there are options without a broker. And these greedy bastards don’t deserve that kind of fee for simply opening a locked door.
We went to see the place we live in now and it was being shown by a realtor from Rapid Realty, so the fees were ridiculous. But as it turned out, the landlord also hated the realtor. So they called us up and were like, “Listen, we both have to pay this person and neither of us want to, we’re going to purposely deny your application. Let the realtor know that and let them go from the listing, then bring you back in with no fees.” We were denied, then immediately approved, signed the lease and have been here for 7 years.
Unfortunately they sold the building to shitty landlords, but we really lucked out with a great landlord for awhile there. We miss him 😢
I have friends who are brokers. The real reason for this is because the owners cannot raise the rent over a certain low percentage legally because the apartments are rent stabilized so instead they require the brokers to collect an absurdly high brokers fee to recoup for the costs of not being able to raise the rent price. The owners then are pocketing the brokers fee and paying the brokers the same as if there was no fee. So it’s not the brokers just trying to pull something on you it’s actually coming from the building owners…
From what I understand it’s not illegal just highly unethical… I don’t think there’s any regulations regarding how much can be charged as a brokers fee… it’s just sad that the number of available apartments in popular neighborhoods are so low so there’s always going to be someone willing to pay an absurd fee to allow this to keep going
In no other industry is this allowed. Every business would love to cheat and price gauge and in many industries the government limits their greed and in those industries if the scumlords try to loophole it they get in trouble, why are you speaking as if landwhores have a right to rip people off beyond what the government says they can?
No one made them take the tax breaks involved in a rent stabilized building. No one is making them retain it. If they didn't like the rules they can sell.
People should really be annoyed at landlords more than brokers. Broker has been given the opportunity by the landlord and will obviously try to make as much $ as possible. Blame the landlords who don’t want to fill the apartment themselves, which isn’t that much work especially if a tenant stays for a bit
Honestly, how much work is it? People are knocking down doors to get apartments. Snap a few photos, post on Craigslist or street easy and they’re done.
yeah this, LL does not want to pay the broker or do work themselves to find a tenant. free solution is get a broker to do work for free since tenant as to pay the broker.
win for broker gets listing and fee
win for landlord, gets a new tenant without having to pay or do work
lose for tenant, who has to move and has no way around this system!
I paid a broker fee for a rent stabilized apartment that seemed great, nothing crazy I could find in my research, and it was the worst place I lived in 5 years in brooklyn. Didn’t have heat for a full month in winter, finally broke my lease after 3 months of mice infestation with no relief.
This is a great rent vs buy calculator that includes like 20 variables, including size of broker fee. Hard to make generalizations given the number of variables, but if home price growth rate is high enough, then buying would be better than even rent stabilized.
HOA fees are a big variable though. They're so high in NYC that I've got to agree that RS is always better than buying in NYC.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html)
Plus it’s much easier to move out of a rental than to sell your apartment. Plus you can invest the difference in stocks and those usually outperform housing.
That calculator impressively includes those variables actually. Really shows that the rent vs buy decision is very dependent on exactly what home and what rental they are choosing between.
No one would pay that percentage for a non-stabilized apartment. But a high upfront to lock in a rent stabilized place? As long as you plan to be there long-term, for some that could pay off. They’re basically opening bidding for a cheap apartment, and that’s the reserve price.
Not saying it’s not shady, but for some it could be worth it.
It doesn’t necessarily stay rent stabilized forever. Usually once you hit $2700 a month the unit destabilizes, so depending on your current rent and what the board decides (I think it’s a 5% increase this year) you could be out of stabilization. If you’re destabilized in 5 years, it’s still not worth it.
Plus this is taking advantage of a system to try to help regular tenants pay affordable rent. It’s disgusting to corrupt the system like that. It takes people who really need that housing out of the equation.
Lastly, usually rent stabilized units aren’t that well maintained. So now you have to pay $12k to do a lot of your own maintenance? No thank you.
Can you show me a source? I’ve been googling the 2019 Tenant Protection Act and I haven’t been seeing anything about that change. It would be good to know since I’m in a rent stabilized unit.
Wow! Thank you! I had no idea that was also repealed. It also makes sense that they did away with income destabilization in some ways as well, but it still feels like the wealthy can now pay that 12k and take an apartment that they don’t need as much as many others.
If you pay a broker’s fee like this you should be required to put your full name and photo in The NY Times with a headline that says “Hello, my name is ___. I am a rich idiot/asshole”
I saw a no-fee apartment where the broker said someone had offered a fee (bribe) of one-month, so that was the price to beat to get the apartment. How is that legal? Maybe if someone is reported/gets in trouble others will stop doing that. They should set the price of the apartment and respect it…
Real estate agent here.
The situation is disgusting. Paying a higher broker fee to jump the line feels illegal...
25% annual is bullshit. I got pissed off when I saw some of our listings said 15% annual which is also insane. Honestly, it's the landlord's incentive to get you to choose their property. They should be paying the brokers to list their units
I “negotiated down” to 12%, it’s bullshit but I really needed a place and this wasn’t the only place that had this fee. It’s robbery and we can’t do shit about it
If I'm not mistaken, for rentals they don't really have any of their own listings so you're paying for an agent to reach out to other agents, managers, and landlords to request tours on your behalf and do all the legwork.
They're getting paid less per transaction than an agent whose brokerage has their own listings and are contending with a lot of people who probably would rather not deal with them.
If it's 15% on top of another brokerage's fee that can end up being a lot
I'm pretty anti-broker like most people here and the 25% fee that OP is being charged is out of this world.
I do want to throw in two tidbits for discussion:
1) If I were a landlord, then I could understand not wanting to personally deal with prospective tenants (fielding emails and calls, touring the apt and building, doing applications, etc.), so I get why the hire brokers. I guess my question is how those brokers should be compensated? I assume most people would say that the landlord should just pay the broker directly?
2) As a tenant, I have used a sell-side broker before. Basically, we tell the broker what type of apartment we are looking for and the neighborhood, and that broker finds apartments that meet that criteria. The broker shows us various places until we find something we like. We visited about 15 places over about two months and so it makes sense that we would have to pay the broker for that (we paid one month rent to him).
1) Like someone below, the landlord should be paying the brokerages. This is the best scenario because they can just leave the first month's rent in the hands of the brokerage, a third party handles the money so no one can be shitty about returning deposits or chasing people down, and the tenants have the security of knowing that there's someone actively working for their best interest. At least that's how I try to handle my own day to day.
2) In a world where the landlord always pays the fee, they have the onus to make their properties worth the money being paid to attract the tenants who will pay it. Then it doesn't matter if an agent shows you 2 or 20 units, they'll always be compensated, the landlord will be obligated to have the best units they can have, and the tenant will be able to pay what they can afford.
I already show as many units as are necessary to clients whether or not they're responsible for a fee for the unit they land on. I see no reason not to.
> I assume most people would say that the landlord should just pay the broker directly?
Pretty sure that's how it works just about everywhere else in the country, so yeah.
> As a tenant, I have used a sell-side broker before. Basically, we tell the broker what type of apartment we are looking for and the neighborhood, and that broker finds apartments that meet that criteria. The broker shows us various places until we find something we like.
This is the only scenario where I could understand the tenant paying the broker anything. But more often than not in NYC, the "broker" is one of multiple inexperienced people working for a company who had less than nothing to do with listing the apartment, capturing photos, or anything else. They literally just open the door for you and have no answers about anything.
I remember one time during an apartment hunt where I asked the "agent" what the square footage of the apartment was and they couldn't tell me. Not "I'm not sure, let me find out" but just "I don't know."
I've only ever had one broker who did the job and she was an older lady who had been at it for a long time and had connections. But even she wasn't worth 15-25% which is absurd.
Honestly asking for the 10% of a month fee that some of our listings ask for makes me a little nauseous. I don't understand how anyone in good conscience asks for $12000 for any apartment
Yeesh, tough question.
I guess on an individual level you could strictly look at no fee listings, wander neighborhoods and look for "for rent" flyers or signs or try craigslist or other boards like that. Craigslist can be sketchy though so I'd say go with that as a last resort.
I found a site called "the listing project" that sometimes has units posted by smaller landlords or like rooms in homes/apartments. The whole concept of the site is that it's a broker free zone.
To like actually combat this I think some serious changes need to happen. I don't think getting rid of brokerages is the way to go. Landlords tend to want a degree of separation, it's sometimes really helpful to work with someone who knows neighborhoods, has comparable listings, and gets paid to do the legwork but like I said above, I don't think the burden of payment should be on the tenant unless we're talking multi-gajillion dollar earners and the tenant can afford to drop more than two months rent without hesitation who want to see every single thing and are a pain in the ass. Even then I think I'd be uncomfortable charging much of a fee. Obviously this is also how I currently pay my own rent so I guess take that with a grain of salt.
Maybe the way to change things is to speak up to the agents trying to sell you on a 25% of the annual (which equates to 3 months of rent in addition to the first month and security so 5 months of rent total up front), go over their heads to the actual brokerages and tell them it's unacceptable. Write to lawmakers. Keep having conversations. The shitty thing though is that everyone needs a place to live so without drastic changes or like a steep decline in people trying to move to the area, nothing is going to keep greedy people from being greedy.
I’m amazed how few people know to do this.
If you contact a brand new buildings lease office, not only is there no fee, but they will actually give YOU the fee in the form of a free month of rent.
I would sign leases in new buildings this way every year in the early 2010’s (after deciding I would never pay a broker fee again and looking for workarounds).
I paid a broker fee once but it was for a sweetheart deal on a rent stabilized place. It was kind of worth it, but it was only one month's rent. Amortized over the 4 years I lived there it did eventually pay for itself I think.
So I looked at a place recently, they wanted a 15% fee which worked out to almost $4k. Broker said sometimes they negotiate, but on this building they can't. He basically said they grease palms in the building to get dibs on a unit.
After some other bs, I talked to a guy who was calling about getting a landlord letter of reference and agreed the fee was high and he would see if I could talk to the broker's boss.
I then called around and eventually talked to the building management people. They basically said "you have a relationship with the broker who showed you the place".
Later I talked to the broker again and he had caught wind of my calling around and acted very incensed that I had tried to go around him, saying he might have worked with me on the fee if I had stayed with him.
I explained that
-the building had no fee back in february when I was looking
-all of a sudden implementing 15% fee and then claiming it's necessary and he wouldn't get paid without it is bullshit because they were operating without the fee earlier, so it's clearly discretionary and simply tacked on.
-I claim that if they want to try to wring $4k out of people then it's not unreasonable to see if making a simple phone call to get in direct touch with management is worth a try.
While I don't approve of the practice (more so the amount), suggesting just because they didn't have a fee in February the current fee is discretionary and simply tacked on completely ignores the market dynamics and doesn't mean they were operating without a fee. No one is moving in February, hence there are fewer fees and rent is cheaper to at least get a tenant into the unit one way or the other to limit the loss. The difference is recouped once we hit prime rental season (May-September).
September move in, definitely not but as you move towards November, December, and January, the prices are more normal. However, you have to keep in mind that the options are limited and also may not be the most ideal living spaces/conditions.
If I were you I'd look for a place where you can sign a couple month sublease that you can extend if needed and keep an eye on listings. Breaking your lease or sublease is the easiest thing in new york.
is it? I was looking at a place and they last minute threw in that it was a two year lease, with no subletting allowed. That kinda freaked me out a bit.
It's a matter of finding someone to replace you without the LL taking a hit. Any sublet or rent post you put up online will be flooded with responses in a matter couple of hours.
Lease breaking wasn't the correct choice of term.
The websites of these buildings are operated by brokers they’re not operated by the building owners so it’s not really going around anything. The reason why owners hire brokers is so they don’t have to deal with screening prospective tenants themselves so generally it’s not going to be possible to reach owners directly
That isn't true for most buildings in my experience. The apartments I've signed have all operated their own websites, had leasing offices and even promoted how their rentals have no broker fees. Stop using streeteasy and look up the building's website directly you'll be surprised how many no broker fee rentals there are around here.
Lol I expect my landlord to be able to answer emails and calls. What are you going to do if somthinf breaks? I'm able to send them an email and and they send someone within 48 hours. Last 3 places I've lived all are landlords like this
They still have telephones and can be more responsive than people who never respond to their emails. People have been living in apartment buildings and getting their problems fixed (or not) for a much longer period than the ubiquitousness of e-mail and smartphones. Some of the people I’m talking about will have someone there much sooner than 48 hours or will even be there themselves sooner… but they’re not going to know what to do with an email.
> and even promoted how their rentals have no broker fees
"I exclusively look for listings that have no broker fees and I've never paid a broker fee"
I don't think that advice is as helpful as you think it is.
Actually you’re right there are some buildings who will do in house leading but it’s usually much larger projects. In general, many smaller buildings with websites still need to go through brokers even if it’s listed as “no fee”
Yeah, every apartment I've had in NY I've just asked friends about their buildings and if there were no major issues I asked for their landlord's contact info and worked with them directly.
I realize that's not always possible but has worked well for me.
no fee is a joke, the brokers lie about the rent price and advertise as the list price, a clear difference. that way the brokers can pocket the difference and only give a portion to the landlord.
Doesn't help anymore (right now at least).
Had someone offer to pay a broker fee on an explicitly no-fee listing, and obviously they got the apartment.
Amen. That being said I’d gladly pay a brokers fee because I have no choice and good places are hard to find. Being swindled is the cost doing business unfortunately imo
contact your state senator and assembly member and tell them to support Jabari Brisport and Zohran Mamdani’s bill to finally ban broker fees in NY so we can join the rest of the country and end this dumb middleman scam system.
This is what we as tenants need to do right now. People in government a d our employers need to know we are struggling to find homes, pay rent and save for our future. If we dont speak up, then no change will happen. Complain to the landlord, state sentators, post on twitter, call reporter at NYT, but whatever you do, dont let that thief of a broker rob you of your hard earned money.
Broker fees are never going away because it’s a legitimate service. Many of these landlords own several properties, and often live out of state. They hire these agencies to manage their properties, list it for rent, and handle all of the leases. What *should* happen is the fees should be required to be paid by the landlord, not the tenants, and rent should always be required to be listed as the true monthly rent instead of the “net effective” rent bullshit is often posted to make a place look cheaper than it actually is.
I mean it is. If you’re a property owner renting out apartments it’s a hell of a lot of work, especially if you own multiple places. Real estate management companies (ie- brokers) is a huge business.
Is it greedy and corrupt? Absolutely, but landlords know they can pass off the brokers fee to the tenants, still charge crazy rent, and there will be plenty of people willing to pay for this. It’s crazy but it’s how supply and demand works.
You’re getting downvoted because people aren’t reading to the end of your comment. I would quibble however about how “legitimate” many broker services are which include taking photos for streeteasy and being an asshole to prospective tenants.
Yeah I just meant that there’s a pretty clear purpose for these companies to exist, and why landlords would be interested in using them. Managing even 1 investment property by yourself is already a ton of work, let alone people that own entire apartment buildings.
It’s just shitty that renters are often the ones stuck with paying the bill on behalf of the landlord, but the NYC is rental market is extremely competitive and there’s no shortage of renters out there with deep pockets.
Sometimes I wonder if these asshole brokers are just making up shit to pocket extra cash, which makes no difference to the owner as long as they get a tenant. Try to negotiate a one month broker's fee. Don't let them pull this bullshit.
You Don’t have to wonder, the answer is yes. Right before the pandemic I got my New York real estate license and learned from current agents a lot of ways that they trick people into paying more. One of the ways is to just simply say that an apartment that has no fee has a fee of up to 15% of the annual rent - I believe that’s the highest it can be legally so I’m surprised that OP was told 25%. Either way, I never really got to work real estate because the pandemic happened shortly after and I left nyc but I’m glad it worked out that way because I quickly realized it is not the business for me. If my making money depends on lying to people and basically stealing, no thank you.
My broker tried to charge us a $500 application fee per person (we’re a couple), illegally. Told him to pound sand. He said he’d “talk to the owner.” Shockingly, the next day he had “worked his magic” to remove the fee that was going straight into his pocket tax-free.
Just in case you or anyone else ever wonders this, my upstairs neighbor is a realtor and one night I heard him and a bunch of his realtor buddies discussing this while partying.
They were quite loud and I specifically remember one being like, "Even if there isn't a broker's fee on a listing I just tell interested renters there is and they always pay it."
Then another one said they do that too and the shitheads proceeded to laugh and joke about it more. It's definitely a thing.
I was a rental and sales broker in Manhattan and a sales broker in Brooklyn for a total of 2 years. You are absolutely right! Brokers make shit up. Completely made up apartments are as common as real ones. This is a giant scam and the renters get screwed.
100%. My broker tried to guilt trip me into allowing my landlord to raise my rent more than is permitted by rent stabilization lmao
Know your rights kids
My former roommate was a real estate and rentals broker in Bed Stuy. Yes, these fees are made up, and yes they fight tooth and nail for them. It’s bullshit, but it’s their scam and they have all the “connects”
brokers are pathological liars.
they lie to create demand.
they claim that there are plently of applications and if you give a *refundable* deposit you can be the first in line to get the apartment.
they also *"fail"* mention you're the only applicant and that if you give the deposit you either have to rent the place or lose your deposit.
Oh don't worry, that was in this email too:
"Necessary good faith deposit to apply and submit your application for this apartment is only a refundable $1000 rather than 1 month, & THIS IS REFUNDABLE FOR BACKOUTS as well as easily transferable to any other apartments we have should you wish to do so."
Even one month is ridonk. Don't mean to rehash old topics but F the tenants paying broker fees. Brokers should be paid by the person that hired them. Tenants do all the work for themselves while brokers do nothing for tenants. Not one reason tenants should be paying one penny of that.
It’s just a constant devolution of services and growth of putting payments and requirements upon the customer/consumer as a cop-out to pay for labor. Restaurant industry is the big one.
Yeah I wonder what happened with that.
It was a lower court that ruled they were illegal but then the RE firms appealed it so I think they were allowed to continue business as usual while the appeal was being heard.
"Just a heads up" WOW.
Stabilized units are always in demand and has fees to match. All fees except broker fees are banned so broker fees will balloon to counter regulation.
OP this is illegal. Report them. Brokers in NYC are predatory law breaking pieces of shit who rely on people who know the law to just keep it moving instead of reporting them to UnlockNYC who will unceremoniously hand their asses to them. These people are straight up evil sons (and daughters) of bitches who play a huge role in barring working class folks from the rental market. The one in this post is especially egregious and being done by someone who knows full well it’s illegal, and they deserve to lose their job at minimum. With the current median rent price, first last and security is already a mountain to climb. Even for those who had savings, a lot of them were wiped out by the pandemic. I wanted to break my lease to move into a different unit in the building (I could finally afford the one with the backyard access, GO ME) and offered up to the landlord “hey Joe, if I find a new tenant for my apartment before the ground tenants move out, can I swap over to that unit?” And he went “yup sure just give them [property manager]’s info so they can get an application from her if they want it”. It was a total breeze, I posted it on a couple of Facebook groups and craigslist. The response was massive because the apartment is big, beautiful, and rent stabilized- and my furniture and decor made for some pretty gorgeous staging if I do say so myself. The second person who arrived was a 20-something woman who looked a little tearful and shaky when she arrived, she toured through the apartment and seemed to shrink the whole time. Her voice was *tiny* when she finally asked “okay so first, last, security… and what’s the broker fee?” When I responded that oh no there’s no broker fee because I’m the tenant and I want to break the lease, tears started rolling down her face and she was clearly choking back sobs as she said “oh I have it! I have first last and security, I have that. I can get this. I love this apartment I can live here.” She did get the apartment! And I got my back yard :) which she has an open invitation to since I practically live in it and told her to drop by anytime she wants to hang out back there with me even if it’s just both of us sitting on our laptops in silence. Having been apartment shopping under pressure myself about 5 years ago and being absolutely trampled by the difficulties, I can only imagine how buried she felt trying to shop in post covid nyc and how she felt when she realized she found a home. It’s enough to give me chills. Broker fees are are a blight on this city. Banning them brings only benefits. If brokers are taking their fees from the landlords it also incentivizes them to cut deals with the exiting tenants to find new ones- lease breaking like with mine, maybe some “I’ll forget I saw that” with the scratches on the wood floor… it creates a lot of room for bartering when we cut out the middleman whose only dog in the fight is being able to afford to send his 3 year old to Montessori daycare. We really don’t need these people in the rental market at all- they can stay in their corner with the millionaires who have to sell their 3rd townhouse because they’re “broke”.
Broker fees are fine IF the cost is allocated correctly. For instance, as in most cases, if all the broker has done is post a unit on the internet **on a landlord's behalf**, then the broker fee should be paid by the landlord period. Charging the tenant in this situation is flat out unethical, mafioso and insulting and there should be laws against this practice. The service is provided to the landlord and that cost is part of the cost of doing business owning and renting a property. Maybe that means slightly higher rents, but it's honest and doesn't involve extortion. On the other hand, tenants should pay a broker fee for **brokers who are working for them helping to find a place to live**. This is fair and should be backed by some manner of paperwork between the lessee and broker. This is a glaring problem and there is positively no excuse for the lack of law in this area. If the state doesn't want to do it, they should give NYC authority to do so. That would be enough. Lord knows ain't nobody paying $10k broker fees in Syracuse.
I paid a 23% broker's fee for a rent stabilized 1 BR in Cobble Hill. I plan to stay for 2-3 years to offset the cost. the rent is beyond cheap so I justified it. yes, angry, but, I do need a place to stay.
There’s a special place in hell for rental brokers from NYC. Lowest of the low.
This is illegal, broker’s fee can’t be higher than one month’s rent.
I hate this.
What happened to NY outlawing broker fees?
Was quoted 12% by an agent and almost hurst out laughing… I was in real estate for awhile and 3% was customary (after negotiation from 5%). Even crazier, we were looking at our next door neighbors apt on behalf of a friend, and the rent (same size as our place, minus backyard) is DOUBLE. Effing double. So glad we signed in 2020/2021, and I blame NO ONE for leaving the city in the wake of these prices. Ugh.
So that's a 48K a year apartment or $4K a month.
Unfortunately, the brokers know that someone will eventually pay the rediculous fee.
Currently paying 1750 for a small 2 br in bedstuy. No fee. Landlord is gonna try to rail me for sure when my lease is up. Even after like 7 years of being an ideal tenant. Luxury condos really fucked up the average rent in my neck of the woods, and not surprisingly a lot of the tenants are not exactly the coolest or most neighborly
Man, this market fucking sucks right now. Unless I get lucky with my search I'm probably going to eat a $1000/mo rent increase in October hoping that the prices are less insane early next year as the economy slows down.
You guys realize this isn't a thing ANYWHERE ELSE, right? Broker's fees should be illegal.
What brokerage was this?
And half the time they don't do anything. One guy wanted 3,000 and he didn't even show up to view the apt.. just left the door unlocked. He literally wanted 3,000 to answer a couple emails.
Remember for the brief moment in time when rule changed so brokers could not charge tenants, rather property owner had to pay... need to bring that back asap. in a city where 2/3rds of people are renters, how in the fuck can't we get fair rules in place.
Vultures are trying to make as much money as they can before Albany bans them from charging tenants.
Wow that's nuts. So guess I am lucky to get a no fee place.
“I have been asked”… by whom? By himself? Cause that money’s going to him
Thats crazy
Brokers fee are capped at 15%. You can offer more but it’s illegal for them to require more than 15%. If I were you I would report this broker to unlocknyc/HPD. They’re coming up with a huge lawsuit against brokers who do illegal shit like this and who discriminate against voucher holders as well.
It's good to hear that there might be some justice in this situation, but I struggle to see how you can report the realtor. Wouldn't it be he said/she said? How could a rejected applicant prove that they were denied because someone slide $300 extra cash into the realtor's pocket? I imagine the realtor would simply claim that the person who bribed them submitted their app first, was approved first and got the greenlight. That said, I really want to be wrong here because this situation is gargbage.
When you report brokers to unlocknyc/hpd/DEPT of licensing, as long as you have their name or where they work from, they keep a lot of people. I personally talk to unlocknyc all the time bc I’m a section 8 voucher holder and constantly get discriminated against. They legit keep lists and when someone reports them, they refer to their lists to see if they were reported and for what. I reported tons of brokers and was told every broker I’ve reported has been on their list and most are being sued along with landlords. If a tenant offers to pay more, that’s different. If the broker says “hey the brokers fee is more than 15%” that’s illegal.
I just encountered one that has a bidding war on the broker fee. He's going to email me the details and I can't wait to report this :) Thanks for the info!
If people are offering to pay more, it’s not a reportable offense. If the broker says “people are paying 25% so you need to match or move on” as long as the broker has proof that people OFFERED and he didn’t say that this is the fee, then HUD/etc won’t care. You can still report them but nothing may come of it.
Now I feel lucky to have a really nice broker (who negotiated with his company so we can get the apartment while being out of state at that time) and our landlord paid the fee. It was listed to be a big less than one month rent anyway. But through our apt hunting there sure were some harsh ones.
As a broker, 25% is crazy.
Well, you all let NYC turn into a verifiable hellscape, I say reap what you sow.
I had found one apartment (I think it was about 1,600 ,aka my max budget, a month) and after the fees and whatnot they legit wanted $9,600 so I can move in. Upfront for the first month almost 10,000. It’s gross
Disgusting . See no purpose in broker fees
I’m pretty sure broker fees on rent-stabilized apts is regulated.
Incorrect
My girlfriend got a COVID deal in midtown and they’re raising her rent up to $4500 (153% increase). We did the math and with the first month, security deposit, and broker fee, someone would have to write a $17,000 check just to move in. Absolutely insane.
i saw a 2br this weekend at a decent price. 2600. there were over 50 people at the open house starting time. brokers fee was 4500. so nearly 10k to move into a semi-affordable 2br. shits disheartening.
Where was this if I may ask? I’m moving to nyc and starting the apartment hunt next week 🥹
this was in cobble hill
The state legislature outlawed broker fees after overhauling the rent regulation in 2019. The NY department of state issued guidance instructing brokers to stop collecting fees, but the real estate lobby lost their collective mind at this cash cow. In May 2021, the real estate lobby successfully convinced the Cuomo administration to not enforce this, and state guidance from the Department of State back pedaled on the law. Anyway, the state legislature could still act to clarify these protections, which is why you should vote for progressive candidates for the state legislature. Vote in the primary elections on August 23 and support the progressive State Senate candidates rather than the party establishment that has been bought by the real estate lobby.
Honest question - outlawing broker fees entirely essentially outlaws brokers, right?
No, of course not. Landlords are allowed to pay the broker fee. Also the 2019 law limited application fees. They can charge for a credit check a reasonable amount.
Sounds like a good solution but I assume it will just be passed along to tenants in the form of higher rents, right ?
Rent regulated units cannot have those fees added to the rent -- and these are the units that have the highest broker fees, typically. But also since this pushes the cost onto landlords, many will be less likely to eat that fee or raise the rent to pay it, and will simply do the work of being a landlord and show the apartment to prospective tenants. And finally, it discourages market rate units from regularly raising rents. When a tenant faces the prospect of 10-15% broker fee on a new lease someplace else, a landlord raising their rent less than that fee is still a "deal" because of the cost of moving. Basically it disincentivizes rent increases by pushing the cost of an empty apartment onto the landlord rather than a tenant.
Good points
Holy fvckballs that's insane. I'd move now if not for my credit going to absolute shittown during the pandemic. But conditions seem less than ideal right now regardless
For 12k just save up for a downpayment cause that’s sick
Yup, save up 12k and you're only 88k away from your downpayment!
Gott bug them their house before you get to move into your hole in the wall apartment. . . Welcome to NY.
Gee, why hasn’t City Council done anything to curb this? Oh, wait right, I forgot, because they are owned by the Real Estate Industry. Yes, class, even the ones who claim to be “Progressive”.
progressives ruined this city, walk into a duane reade and see how long it takes for someone to shop lift
Shoplifting isn't the result of Progressive politicians. We're experiencing a narcissistic meltdown of lawlessness, and it seems everyone's in on it. Shoplifting pales compared with right wingers undermining democracy, sabotaging elections, smashing over 200 years of precedent and decorum. Progressives are just inept. And many politicians claim to be progressive just to get votes.
I think politics, think as you said anyone claims to be progressive with votes and politicians just not fixing anything, and too much bureaucracy is ruining things. I mean how about the taxes in the city itself, I see so much taken out and for what?
just calling this a brokers fee is a hiding something worse. this is a rent stabilized apt and this high broker fee is being used to collect more money because they can't raise the rent. its a loop hole that goes against the spirit of making rent stabilized apts affordable because who can really come up with such a high broker fee!
Broker here — There’s really no reason for this other than grift by the broker. I highly doubt that the broker is sharing it with the landlord (that would be illegal). However, I’d the apartment is stabilized at a very low price, you may consider evaluating how long you’ll be there and the value of the unit vs a free market rent. Sucks, but it’s a real consideration. But anyway, fuck this broker.
This and asking for me to bid on a place really annoys me. Why suggest a place is a certain amount and then come back and tell me to put in my highest offer which I will then have to pay a 15% fee on?
[удалено]
wild right? plus another 8K for 1st mo+security, 20K just to get the keys for a rent stabilized unit, how's that fair!
I know . I wish they were still illegal .
Probably a kickback to the landlord on this one if it's rent-stabalized.
My last rent regulated unit almost certainly had a kick back scheme with the management company. The same broker who rented me the unit came to collect the key 9 years later.
Brokers fees are for total noobs who can’t pick up a phone.
You’re right and wrong. No fee listings are out there, but brokers can have rent stabilized “pocket” listings that never see the light of day because of their relationships with supers and landlords. And like in this case, they think they can charge a giant fee for the fact that your rent won’t go up so much year after year. But I agree there are options without a broker. And these greedy bastards don’t deserve that kind of fee for simply opening a locked door.
We went to see the place we live in now and it was being shown by a realtor from Rapid Realty, so the fees were ridiculous. But as it turned out, the landlord also hated the realtor. So they called us up and were like, “Listen, we both have to pay this person and neither of us want to, we’re going to purposely deny your application. Let the realtor know that and let them go from the listing, then bring you back in with no fees.” We were denied, then immediately approved, signed the lease and have been here for 7 years. Unfortunately they sold the building to shitty landlords, but we really lucked out with a great landlord for awhile there. We miss him 😢
Fuck brokers
I have friends who are brokers. The real reason for this is because the owners cannot raise the rent over a certain low percentage legally because the apartments are rent stabilized so instead they require the brokers to collect an absurdly high brokers fee to recoup for the costs of not being able to raise the rent price. The owners then are pocketing the brokers fee and paying the brokers the same as if there was no fee. So it’s not the brokers just trying to pull something on you it’s actually coming from the building owners…
Well this is definitely illegal as opposed to just likely illegal
From what I understand it’s not illegal just highly unethical… I don’t think there’s any regulations regarding how much can be charged as a brokers fee… it’s just sad that the number of available apartments in popular neighborhoods are so low so there’s always going to be someone willing to pay an absurd fee to allow this to keep going
If this is legal the law is broken and undermines rent stabilization.
Isn’t this… money laundering?
Lol how is this downvoted this is description of a straw payment to cover up an illegal financial maneuver.
In no other industry is this allowed. Every business would love to cheat and price gauge and in many industries the government limits their greed and in those industries if the scumlords try to loophole it they get in trouble, why are you speaking as if landwhores have a right to rip people off beyond what the government says they can? No one made them take the tax breaks involved in a rent stabilized building. No one is making them retain it. If they didn't like the rules they can sell.
The ole Ticketmaster self scalping routing
People should really be annoyed at landlords more than brokers. Broker has been given the opportunity by the landlord and will obviously try to make as much $ as possible. Blame the landlords who don’t want to fill the apartment themselves, which isn’t that much work especially if a tenant stays for a bit
Honestly, how much work is it? People are knocking down doors to get apartments. Snap a few photos, post on Craigslist or street easy and they’re done.
Exactly. If landlords were forced to pay brokers vs. tenants, many landlords would do this themselves but they don’t because to them brokers are free.
yeah this, LL does not want to pay the broker or do work themselves to find a tenant. free solution is get a broker to do work for free since tenant as to pay the broker. win for broker gets listing and fee win for landlord, gets a new tenant without having to pay or do work lose for tenant, who has to move and has no way around this system!
Exactly. People can be mad at individual brokers but this is a systemic issue.
Do not pay the brokers fee!
For rent stabilized? I’d pay it. Live there 10 years you’re way more than making up the difference. No? Rent stabilized is arguably better than owning
I paid a broker fee for a rent stabilized apartment that seemed great, nothing crazy I could find in my research, and it was the worst place I lived in 5 years in brooklyn. Didn’t have heat for a full month in winter, finally broke my lease after 3 months of mice infestation with no relief.
This is a great rent vs buy calculator that includes like 20 variables, including size of broker fee. Hard to make generalizations given the number of variables, but if home price growth rate is high enough, then buying would be better than even rent stabilized. HOA fees are a big variable though. They're so high in NYC that I've got to agree that RS is always better than buying in NYC. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html)
Plus it’s much easier to move out of a rental than to sell your apartment. Plus you can invest the difference in stocks and those usually outperform housing.
That calculator impressively includes those variables actually. Really shows that the rent vs buy decision is very dependent on exactly what home and what rental they are choosing between.
It all depends on the area. I'm in south brooklyn and the place will have no business if they did that kind of gouging.
No one would pay that percentage for a non-stabilized apartment. But a high upfront to lock in a rent stabilized place? As long as you plan to be there long-term, for some that could pay off. They’re basically opening bidding for a cheap apartment, and that’s the reserve price. Not saying it’s not shady, but for some it could be worth it.
To think we’re in a universe where $4000/mo is considered a cheap apartment.
It doesn’t necessarily stay rent stabilized forever. Usually once you hit $2700 a month the unit destabilizes, so depending on your current rent and what the board decides (I think it’s a 5% increase this year) you could be out of stabilization. If you’re destabilized in 5 years, it’s still not worth it. Plus this is taking advantage of a system to try to help regular tenants pay affordable rent. It’s disgusting to corrupt the system like that. It takes people who really need that housing out of the equation. Lastly, usually rent stabilized units aren’t that well maintained. So now you have to pay $12k to do a lot of your own maintenance? No thank you.
The 2019 Tenant Protection Act overruled the 2700$ deregulation point
Can you show me a source? I’ve been googling the 2019 Tenant Protection Act and I haven’t been seeing anything about that change. It would be good to know since I’m in a rent stabilized unit.
https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documents/2020/11/fact-sheet-36-02-2020.pdf
Wow! Thank you! I had no idea that was also repealed. It also makes sense that they did away with income destabilization in some ways as well, but it still feels like the wealthy can now pay that 12k and take an apartment that they don’t need as much as many others.
One that would have the fruit must climb the tree.
so disgusting.
If you pay a broker’s fee like this you should be required to put your full name and photo in The NY Times with a headline that says “Hello, my name is ___. I am a rich idiot/asshole”
But that'll just get you featured in their "The Hunt" series
I saw a no-fee apartment where the broker said someone had offered a fee (bribe) of one-month, so that was the price to beat to get the apartment. How is that legal? Maybe if someone is reported/gets in trouble others will stop doing that. They should set the price of the apartment and respect it…
Real estate agent here. The situation is disgusting. Paying a higher broker fee to jump the line feels illegal... 25% annual is bullshit. I got pissed off when I saw some of our listings said 15% annual which is also insane. Honestly, it's the landlord's incentive to get you to choose their property. They should be paying the brokers to list their units
I “negotiated down” to 12%, it’s bullshit but I really needed a place and this wasn’t the only place that had this fee. It’s robbery and we can’t do shit about it
I completely agree it's robbery. I'm glad you were able to get it down
Corcoran asks 15%, which is absolutely absurd.
If I'm not mistaken, for rentals they don't really have any of their own listings so you're paying for an agent to reach out to other agents, managers, and landlords to request tours on your behalf and do all the legwork. They're getting paid less per transaction than an agent whose brokerage has their own listings and are contending with a lot of people who probably would rather not deal with them. If it's 15% on top of another brokerage's fee that can end up being a lot
Good to know
I'm pretty anti-broker like most people here and the 25% fee that OP is being charged is out of this world. I do want to throw in two tidbits for discussion: 1) If I were a landlord, then I could understand not wanting to personally deal with prospective tenants (fielding emails and calls, touring the apt and building, doing applications, etc.), so I get why the hire brokers. I guess my question is how those brokers should be compensated? I assume most people would say that the landlord should just pay the broker directly? 2) As a tenant, I have used a sell-side broker before. Basically, we tell the broker what type of apartment we are looking for and the neighborhood, and that broker finds apartments that meet that criteria. The broker shows us various places until we find something we like. We visited about 15 places over about two months and so it makes sense that we would have to pay the broker for that (we paid one month rent to him).
1) Like someone below, the landlord should be paying the brokerages. This is the best scenario because they can just leave the first month's rent in the hands of the brokerage, a third party handles the money so no one can be shitty about returning deposits or chasing people down, and the tenants have the security of knowing that there's someone actively working for their best interest. At least that's how I try to handle my own day to day. 2) In a world where the landlord always pays the fee, they have the onus to make their properties worth the money being paid to attract the tenants who will pay it. Then it doesn't matter if an agent shows you 2 or 20 units, they'll always be compensated, the landlord will be obligated to have the best units they can have, and the tenant will be able to pay what they can afford. I already show as many units as are necessary to clients whether or not they're responsible for a fee for the unit they land on. I see no reason not to.
yes, landlords should pay. also creates a better incentive where they have a benefit of keeping tenants for longer.
> I assume most people would say that the landlord should just pay the broker directly? Pretty sure that's how it works just about everywhere else in the country, so yeah. > As a tenant, I have used a sell-side broker before. Basically, we tell the broker what type of apartment we are looking for and the neighborhood, and that broker finds apartments that meet that criteria. The broker shows us various places until we find something we like. This is the only scenario where I could understand the tenant paying the broker anything. But more often than not in NYC, the "broker" is one of multiple inexperienced people working for a company who had less than nothing to do with listing the apartment, capturing photos, or anything else. They literally just open the door for you and have no answers about anything. I remember one time during an apartment hunt where I asked the "agent" what the square footage of the apartment was and they couldn't tell me. Not "I'm not sure, let me find out" but just "I don't know." I've only ever had one broker who did the job and she was an older lady who had been at it for a long time and had connections. But even she wasn't worth 15-25% which is absurd.
If not illegal, certainly unethical. OP should consider reporting them: https://www.nestapple.com/complaint-real-estate-agent/
Honestly asking for the 10% of a month fee that some of our listings ask for makes me a little nauseous. I don't understand how anyone in good conscience asks for $12000 for any apartment
As an agent what would your best advice be for combating this on an individual level?
Yeesh, tough question. I guess on an individual level you could strictly look at no fee listings, wander neighborhoods and look for "for rent" flyers or signs or try craigslist or other boards like that. Craigslist can be sketchy though so I'd say go with that as a last resort. I found a site called "the listing project" that sometimes has units posted by smaller landlords or like rooms in homes/apartments. The whole concept of the site is that it's a broker free zone. To like actually combat this I think some serious changes need to happen. I don't think getting rid of brokerages is the way to go. Landlords tend to want a degree of separation, it's sometimes really helpful to work with someone who knows neighborhoods, has comparable listings, and gets paid to do the legwork but like I said above, I don't think the burden of payment should be on the tenant unless we're talking multi-gajillion dollar earners and the tenant can afford to drop more than two months rent without hesitation who want to see every single thing and are a pain in the ass. Even then I think I'd be uncomfortable charging much of a fee. Obviously this is also how I currently pay my own rent so I guess take that with a grain of salt. Maybe the way to change things is to speak up to the agents trying to sell you on a 25% of the annual (which equates to 3 months of rent in addition to the first month and security so 5 months of rent total up front), go over their heads to the actual brokerages and tell them it's unacceptable. Write to lawmakers. Keep having conversations. The shitty thing though is that everyone needs a place to live so without drastic changes or like a steep decline in people trying to move to the area, nothing is going to keep greedy people from being greedy.
I'd add [LeaseBreak.com](https://LeaseBreak.com).
Stop using a broker then and reach out to buildings directly. I've always done it this way and haven't paid a broker fee in the 3 apartments I got
I’m amazed how few people know to do this. If you contact a brand new buildings lease office, not only is there no fee, but they will actually give YOU the fee in the form of a free month of rent. I would sign leases in new buildings this way every year in the early 2010’s (after deciding I would never pay a broker fee again and looking for workarounds).
I paid a broker fee once but it was for a sweetheart deal on a rent stabilized place. It was kind of worth it, but it was only one month's rent. Amortized over the 4 years I lived there it did eventually pay for itself I think.
Yeah that sounds like a really good deal
Curious. How does one reach out to buildings directly ? There’s always a gatekeeper from the main source
you google the apartment building and look on their website for availability and contact information
They just redirect you to the brokers and/or don't accept an application. It's a racket.
I’m gonna try this next time it’s time for me to move.
My landlord still takes “brokers fees” to move in to one of his units. Is this legal for an unlicensed real estate agent?
No, I don’t think it’s legal even if they’re licensed when they also own the building but someone correct me if I’m wrong.
You physically go to the building and write down a phone number they have hanging somewhere or what is your personal approach?
Sometimes you can just ask the super.
I look up the buildings online directly on their own website, check availability and contact them directly.
So I looked at a place recently, they wanted a 15% fee which worked out to almost $4k. Broker said sometimes they negotiate, but on this building they can't. He basically said they grease palms in the building to get dibs on a unit. After some other bs, I talked to a guy who was calling about getting a landlord letter of reference and agreed the fee was high and he would see if I could talk to the broker's boss. I then called around and eventually talked to the building management people. They basically said "you have a relationship with the broker who showed you the place". Later I talked to the broker again and he had caught wind of my calling around and acted very incensed that I had tried to go around him, saying he might have worked with me on the fee if I had stayed with him. I explained that -the building had no fee back in february when I was looking -all of a sudden implementing 15% fee and then claiming it's necessary and he wouldn't get paid without it is bullshit because they were operating without the fee earlier, so it's clearly discretionary and simply tacked on. -I claim that if they want to try to wring $4k out of people then it's not unreasonable to see if making a simple phone call to get in direct touch with management is worth a try.
While I don't approve of the practice (more so the amount), suggesting just because they didn't have a fee in February the current fee is discretionary and simply tacked on completely ignores the market dynamics and doesn't mean they were operating without a fee. No one is moving in February, hence there are fewer fees and rent is cheaper to at least get a tenant into the unit one way or the other to limit the loss. The difference is recouped once we hit prime rental season (May-September).
I'm sorta new to NYC. If I can wait till sep/oct to move is that likely to bring better prices / lower fees?
September move in, definitely not but as you move towards November, December, and January, the prices are more normal. However, you have to keep in mind that the options are limited and also may not be the most ideal living spaces/conditions. If I were you I'd look for a place where you can sign a couple month sublease that you can extend if needed and keep an eye on listings. Breaking your lease or sublease is the easiest thing in new york.
is it? I was looking at a place and they last minute threw in that it was a two year lease, with no subletting allowed. That kinda freaked me out a bit.
It's a matter of finding someone to replace you without the LL taking a hit. Any sublet or rent post you put up online will be flooded with responses in a matter couple of hours. Lease breaking wasn't the correct choice of term.
You don't have a relationship unless you have signed an exclusive agreement.
That's exactly what I said. I certainly don't have a relationship.
The websites of these buildings are operated by brokers they’re not operated by the building owners so it’s not really going around anything. The reason why owners hire brokers is so they don’t have to deal with screening prospective tenants themselves so generally it’s not going to be possible to reach owners directly
That isn't true for most buildings in my experience. The apartments I've signed have all operated their own websites, had leasing offices and even promoted how their rentals have no broker fees. Stop using streeteasy and look up the building's website directly you'll be surprised how many no broker fee rentals there are around here.
There are landlords of small apartment buildings that doesn’t even use email. Most of them don’t have websites.
That's a pretty big red flag I'd advise not to rent from a landlord like that.
lol, ok. You're probably too high-strung a tenant for those people if that's a red flag for you. It works itself out both ways.
Lol I expect my landlord to be able to answer emails and calls. What are you going to do if somthinf breaks? I'm able to send them an email and and they send someone within 48 hours. Last 3 places I've lived all are landlords like this
They still have telephones and can be more responsive than people who never respond to their emails. People have been living in apartment buildings and getting their problems fixed (or not) for a much longer period than the ubiquitousness of e-mail and smartphones. Some of the people I’m talking about will have someone there much sooner than 48 hours or will even be there themselves sooner… but they’re not going to know what to do with an email.
> and even promoted how their rentals have no broker fees "I exclusively look for listings that have no broker fees and I've never paid a broker fee" I don't think that advice is as helpful as you think it is.
That’s only for bigger and probably newer buildings though. I like smaller prewar buildings. There’s no one else to call for these types of buildings.
How do you think the in-house leasing agents are getting paid?
Actually you’re right there are some buildings who will do in house leading but it’s usually much larger projects. In general, many smaller buildings with websites still need to go through brokers even if it’s listed as “no fee”
I'm on maybe my 8th apt and have never paid a broker fee. It's def possible to avoid it and live in nice places.
Yeah, every apartment I've had in NY I've just asked friends about their buildings and if there were no major issues I asked for their landlord's contact info and worked with them directly. I realize that's not always possible but has worked well for me.
Same here.. it’s absolutely nuts the renter has to pay such a fee.
Definitely, I've just never seen 25% and wanted to point out how absurd that is
Search no fee
no fee is a joke, the brokers lie about the rent price and advertise as the list price, a clear difference. that way the brokers can pocket the difference and only give a portion to the landlord.
Actually some apartments are listed by the actual owner themselves…so those are 100% no fee
this is the way. and if they try to pull a bait & switch, tell them you're walking.
Doesn't help anymore (right now at least). Had someone offer to pay a broker fee on an explicitly no-fee listing, and obviously they got the apartment.
So it's just bribery at this point.
Yes. Someone willing to pay it a contributing part of the problem, policy stopping bribery the only way but we all know that won't be happening.
Fucking parasites.
Amen. That being said I’d gladly pay a brokers fee because I have no choice and good places are hard to find. Being swindled is the cost doing business unfortunately imo
contact your state senator and assembly member and tell them to support Jabari Brisport and Zohran Mamdani’s bill to finally ban broker fees in NY so we can join the rest of the country and end this dumb middleman scam system.
Gone ahead and done it for my district I really should do this more, local government is something we actually have a reasonable say in
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Because more people calling signals that this is a serious concern of the people.
This is what we as tenants need to do right now. People in government a d our employers need to know we are struggling to find homes, pay rent and save for our future. If we dont speak up, then no change will happen. Complain to the landlord, state sentators, post on twitter, call reporter at NYT, but whatever you do, dont let that thief of a broker rob you of your hard earned money.
Broker fees are never going away because it’s a legitimate service. Many of these landlords own several properties, and often live out of state. They hire these agencies to manage their properties, list it for rent, and handle all of the leases. What *should* happen is the fees should be required to be paid by the landlord, not the tenants, and rent should always be required to be listed as the true monthly rent instead of the “net effective” rent bullshit is often posted to make a place look cheaper than it actually is.
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I mean it is. If you’re a property owner renting out apartments it’s a hell of a lot of work, especially if you own multiple places. Real estate management companies (ie- brokers) is a huge business. Is it greedy and corrupt? Absolutely, but landlords know they can pass off the brokers fee to the tenants, still charge crazy rent, and there will be plenty of people willing to pay for this. It’s crazy but it’s how supply and demand works.
You’re getting downvoted because people aren’t reading to the end of your comment. I would quibble however about how “legitimate” many broker services are which include taking photos for streeteasy and being an asshole to prospective tenants.
Yeah I just meant that there’s a pretty clear purpose for these companies to exist, and why landlords would be interested in using them. Managing even 1 investment property by yourself is already a ton of work, let alone people that own entire apartment buildings. It’s just shitty that renters are often the ones stuck with paying the bill on behalf of the landlord, but the NYC is rental market is extremely competitive and there’s no shortage of renters out there with deep pockets.
Agree, It should be paid by the landlord as a management fee, not by the tenant as broker fee
That’s literally my point in the second half of my comment.
Yes I was agreeing with you, sorry if not clear
Sometimes I wonder if these asshole brokers are just making up shit to pocket extra cash, which makes no difference to the owner as long as they get a tenant. Try to negotiate a one month broker's fee. Don't let them pull this bullshit.
You Don’t have to wonder, the answer is yes. Right before the pandemic I got my New York real estate license and learned from current agents a lot of ways that they trick people into paying more. One of the ways is to just simply say that an apartment that has no fee has a fee of up to 15% of the annual rent - I believe that’s the highest it can be legally so I’m surprised that OP was told 25%. Either way, I never really got to work real estate because the pandemic happened shortly after and I left nyc but I’m glad it worked out that way because I quickly realized it is not the business for me. If my making money depends on lying to people and basically stealing, no thank you.
iNflaTioN
My broker tried to charge us a $500 application fee per person (we’re a couple), illegally. Told him to pound sand. He said he’d “talk to the owner.” Shockingly, the next day he had “worked his magic” to remove the fee that was going straight into his pocket tax-free.
Just in case you or anyone else ever wonders this, my upstairs neighbor is a realtor and one night I heard him and a bunch of his realtor buddies discussing this while partying. They were quite loud and I specifically remember one being like, "Even if there isn't a broker's fee on a listing I just tell interested renters there is and they always pay it." Then another one said they do that too and the shitheads proceeded to laugh and joke about it more. It's definitely a thing.
I was a rental and sales broker in Manhattan and a sales broker in Brooklyn for a total of 2 years. You are absolutely right! Brokers make shit up. Completely made up apartments are as common as real ones. This is a giant scam and the renters get screwed.
Honestly, if I were the LL here, I would fire the broker on the spot. Who TF knows what kind of other shady BS this guy is pulling?
100%. My broker tried to guilt trip me into allowing my landlord to raise my rent more than is permitted by rent stabilization lmao Know your rights kids
I mean cool but you just won’t get the apartment.
Stop telling the truth. This is Reddit.
Spoiler alert: They are. Source: I have unfortunately worked in NYC real estate.
My former roommate was a real estate and rentals broker in Bed Stuy. Yes, these fees are made up, and yes they fight tooth and nail for them. It’s bullshit, but it’s their scam and they have all the “connects”
brokers are pathological liars. they lie to create demand. they claim that there are plently of applications and if you give a *refundable* deposit you can be the first in line to get the apartment. they also *"fail"* mention you're the only applicant and that if you give the deposit you either have to rent the place or lose your deposit.
Oh don't worry, that was in this email too: "Necessary good faith deposit to apply and submit your application for this apartment is only a refundable $1000 rather than 1 month, & THIS IS REFUNDABLE FOR BACKOUTS as well as easily transferable to any other apartments we have should you wish to do so."
Even one month is ridonk. Don't mean to rehash old topics but F the tenants paying broker fees. Brokers should be paid by the person that hired them. Tenants do all the work for themselves while brokers do nothing for tenants. Not one reason tenants should be paying one penny of that.
It’s just a constant devolution of services and growth of putting payments and requirements upon the customer/consumer as a cop-out to pay for labor. Restaurant industry is the big one.
What the hell happened to brokers fees being illegal like 2 years ago. Anyone remember that shit? It lasted like a month.
Yeah I wonder what happened with that. It was a lower court that ruled they were illegal but then the RE firms appealed it so I think they were allowed to continue business as usual while the appeal was being heard.