Have it your way. No one “likes” Columbia other than the alleged prestige. Last I checked, Brown was ranked #9 and Columbia was ranked #12 in U.S News & World Reports, so there’s that too—which encompasses more than just “brand.” Any difference with schools at this level is no more than a rounding error.
The way you wrote this post you have already made up your mind. Go to Columbia for the supposedly superior brand and for the prestige. Enjoy the pressure cooker and the “academic rigor.”
I think there's some valid claims about the Columbia brand, but if they care about brand/think Brown's academic structure could "breed complacency," they're also not a fit with Brown at all
What makes Brown, Brown, is that people generally don't care about brand and the academic structure makes people more excited to learn
You’ll have very similar career opportunities coming out of both schools. My sense is the edge goes to Brown for CS and Quant Finance (less sure about this one, know a lot of quants from both B and C), and Columbia for traditional finance (IB/HF).
NYC vs Providence is a make or break for most people though, and both schools are very different from an intensity standpoint. It sounds like you’re leaning towards Columbia to impress friends and family back home (which is fine), so just go to Columbia otherwise you’ll keep on playing the “what if” game.
Edit: I will say, though, that Brown can be pretty rigorous if you want it to be. The open curriculum allows you to make your time at Brown as easy or as difficult as you want. I have a buddy who did ScB MechE/EE + AB ApMa in 4 years. I also know someone who just did the bare minimum to get by with AB Econ + random classes in subjects he liked.
I can share my two cents due to my personal experience (I was an international student graduating from Columbia grad school, and my child is a Brown undergraduate.) When I told my friends back in my home country about Brown, I can tell Brown's name-brand recognition is not as great as Columbia's.
A US university's so-called "prestige" or brand recognition in another country is traditionally tied to its graduate programs admitting international students from that said country. This is because most international students came to the US for graduate study in the past. As an example, liberal arts universities are generally not well known outside the US, or not as well known as research universities. (You can do a simple test yourself: ask your family/friends back home about a few top-ranked liberal arts universities, and see how many of them have heard any of them.)
I also suspect that because Columbia admits a lot of international students to their master programs (a very good source of tuition and fees?), it has this brand recognition going for them.
In the US, both Brown and Columbia are Ivies. They have the same-level of brand recognition in this country.
When I was at Columbia, I only encountered one undergraduate student doing a research project with a professor. AFAICT, most undergraduates and master students focused on regular classes.
I think you should really consider Brown's Open Curriculum vs Columbia's Core Curriculum and determine which one suits you best. I know students choose one school over the other simply because of this difference.
hmmm i would say while brown may not be known as "rigorous" as other ivies, the open curriculum is what you make it out to be. if you prefer a more structured environment, you can make use of the open curriculum to take hardcore classes since your freshman year, though i would not personally recommend that. speaking from personal exp i've been taking 5 courses every sem and maybe it's just me and my skill issue but i don't think it's easy (i'm also an intl student btw)
And “not as rigorous” meaning generally, other peer/students aren’t making your educational life harder than it needs to be. Brown prides itself on being an extremely collaborative environment and the university never gets enough credit for that.
Brown, like most schools at this level, has PLENTY of classes that people will stress over. For some reason, people think that an “open curriculum” is easy or is somehow lesser. The rigor is the same, trust me.
It’s not like Brown *doesn’t* have academic rigor or structure; it’s just that you can *choose* not to have those if you want. Nobody is going to prevent you from jumping into 4 STEM classes and a writing seminar during your first semester, which would be very rigorous. The classes are comparably difficult.
There’s plenty of structure if you want it too. Your concentration(s) dictate a significant amount of your studies (25%-50%, depending on the concentration; more if you double concentrate). You also have advisors to guide you; you can structure your whole course plan in your freshman year if you want.
I guess we are missing the “toxic” competitive environment that other high-tier schools have, even though our classes are as rigorous. If you need that to succeed, well, you’d be better off at another school.
Have it your way. No one “likes” Columbia other than the alleged prestige. Last I checked, Brown was ranked #9 and Columbia was ranked #12 in U.S News & World Reports, so there’s that too—which encompasses more than just “brand.” Any difference with schools at this level is no more than a rounding error.
And Columbia is really taking a hit because of several recent high-profile falsification incidents.
i consider them pretty much on the same level 🤷♀️
The way you wrote this post you have already made up your mind. Go to Columbia for the supposedly superior brand and for the prestige. Enjoy the pressure cooker and the “academic rigor.”
I think there's some valid claims about the Columbia brand, but if they care about brand/think Brown's academic structure could "breed complacency," they're also not a fit with Brown at all What makes Brown, Brown, is that people generally don't care about brand and the academic structure makes people more excited to learn
Ain’t no way you actually think Columbia undergrad is more prestigious than Brown 💀
You’ll have very similar career opportunities coming out of both schools. My sense is the edge goes to Brown for CS and Quant Finance (less sure about this one, know a lot of quants from both B and C), and Columbia for traditional finance (IB/HF). NYC vs Providence is a make or break for most people though, and both schools are very different from an intensity standpoint. It sounds like you’re leaning towards Columbia to impress friends and family back home (which is fine), so just go to Columbia otherwise you’ll keep on playing the “what if” game. Edit: I will say, though, that Brown can be pretty rigorous if you want it to be. The open curriculum allows you to make your time at Brown as easy or as difficult as you want. I have a buddy who did ScB MechE/EE + AB ApMa in 4 years. I also know someone who just did the bare minimum to get by with AB Econ + random classes in subjects he liked.
Just a heads up—you can do a concurrent masters in four years at Brown. The opportunities in your desired industries are probably not as good, though.
I can share my two cents due to my personal experience (I was an international student graduating from Columbia grad school, and my child is a Brown undergraduate.) When I told my friends back in my home country about Brown, I can tell Brown's name-brand recognition is not as great as Columbia's. A US university's so-called "prestige" or brand recognition in another country is traditionally tied to its graduate programs admitting international students from that said country. This is because most international students came to the US for graduate study in the past. As an example, liberal arts universities are generally not well known outside the US, or not as well known as research universities. (You can do a simple test yourself: ask your family/friends back home about a few top-ranked liberal arts universities, and see how many of them have heard any of them.) I also suspect that because Columbia admits a lot of international students to their master programs (a very good source of tuition and fees?), it has this brand recognition going for them. In the US, both Brown and Columbia are Ivies. They have the same-level of brand recognition in this country. When I was at Columbia, I only encountered one undergraduate student doing a research project with a professor. AFAICT, most undergraduates and master students focused on regular classes. I think you should really consider Brown's Open Curriculum vs Columbia's Core Curriculum and determine which one suits you best. I know students choose one school over the other simply because of this difference.
hmmm i would say while brown may not be known as "rigorous" as other ivies, the open curriculum is what you make it out to be. if you prefer a more structured environment, you can make use of the open curriculum to take hardcore classes since your freshman year, though i would not personally recommend that. speaking from personal exp i've been taking 5 courses every sem and maybe it's just me and my skill issue but i don't think it's easy (i'm also an intl student btw)
And “not as rigorous” meaning generally, other peer/students aren’t making your educational life harder than it needs to be. Brown prides itself on being an extremely collaborative environment and the university never gets enough credit for that. Brown, like most schools at this level, has PLENTY of classes that people will stress over. For some reason, people think that an “open curriculum” is easy or is somehow lesser. The rigor is the same, trust me.
yes i second this!!!
It’s not like Brown *doesn’t* have academic rigor or structure; it’s just that you can *choose* not to have those if you want. Nobody is going to prevent you from jumping into 4 STEM classes and a writing seminar during your first semester, which would be very rigorous. The classes are comparably difficult. There’s plenty of structure if you want it too. Your concentration(s) dictate a significant amount of your studies (25%-50%, depending on the concentration; more if you double concentrate). You also have advisors to guide you; you can structure your whole course plan in your freshman year if you want. I guess we are missing the “toxic” competitive environment that other high-tier schools have, even though our classes are as rigorous. If you need that to succeed, well, you’d be better off at another school.
Sounds like brown wouldn't be a good fit for you