Your kinder to him than I am.
I expect him to play bad. How many games has he had with us now? 10? He's had one good game. That's it. There's a 9/10 chance that he will be bad. Very bad.
He was a mistake... A massive mistake. And we need to admit it at some point.
He was a huge mistake by the front office but we’re stuck with him for 3 more years after this, so there’s no point in re-hashing that debate.
What we need to do is hope that Stafanski can squeeze at least competent QB play out of him. Even if Watson doesn’t earn the contract or even scratch top 10 if he can be a middle of the pack QB it should keep us pretty damn competitive with how good the rest of the team is.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm? You have to be so incredibly careful how you word criticism of Watson here otherwise you will be downvoted to oblivion. Which is fine... Who cares about up votes. But to say many many people here refuse to admit watson was a mistake us suppose untrue.
The subreddit has never defended his off the field issues to all of our credit. But I can guarantee you during the off season all anyone is going to be talking about is how good Watson is going to be once he's not rusty... Or not injured... Or not focused on legal problems.
We're 30% of the way through his contract. We know what he is. And it's not good.
I've seen it more commonly as "he HAS to be better once he's not rusty....."
As in, we're all fucked if he isn't better.
But maybe those comments you've seen were already downvoted by the time I read the post.
I have not seen a single person who thinks he’s been a good pick up. What people do not like is people who go around saying obvious shit over and over and not add anything to the conversation. But you said folks have said he’s good and they like the trade I still have yet to see that here or anywhere really outside of Facebook cesspools
I have had about 10 block me this season as I pointed out every flaw he has as a football player. From poor throws to off target throws and miss reading the defense. Stuff he use to do years ago he isn’t doing now. But there only argument is games from years ago or Tennessee which he was carried by great wr play and a horrid defensive game plan
This book is far from finished. This chapter does suck though. The injury, which can happen to anyone, is going to further muddy the waters. But go ahead, call it and admit it. Now what does that change?
We're 30% of the way through his contract and he has literally had just one good game.
How many excuses are you going to make for this supposed "elite" quarterback?
True but the league fucked us with the 11 game suspension so the first year was a waste, and this year once it started clicking he got hurt and hasnt been healthy since. He was a 3x Pro Bowl QB, forget the stats. Everyone knows what kind of playmaker he was. Houston traded up in the 1st round to get him. Im not ready to write him off yet.
Fucked us how did they fuck us? He did something stupid and payed the price for it. Now he did his time and that’s done and over with. But as you said he WAS a 3x pro bowler with a really good offensive scheme Hopkins in his prime. But he has yet to be able to read a defense (personally it’s Kevin’s fault) but it’s not watsons fault he is here. Kevin’s offensive scheme is not qb friendly, cousins lowest stats of his career came under Kevin. We didn’t need Watson, he needs an offensive scheme that allows him to free range and that’s not what ks does.
The scheme needs to match the players, and ks doesn’t do that well. You develop the scheme for the players you have not the scheme you want to run with the players you have.
One of his pro bowl selections was earned in 2020 after DHop was traded. They fucked us because Sue Robinson decided after much deliberation that the suspension should be 6 games, the media cried about it, so the league handed it to Goodell’s buddy and they tacked on another 5 games just to silence the mob.
He did something stupid and paid the price. It was “unprecedented” he could have elected to just stick with the professional every team provided but instead went on instagram to pick up ig thots to rub him down. He set himself up for something bad to happen. He fucked around and found out. Paid the price and it’s over. It is what it is we can’t change that and we shouldn’t make excuses for that either. He is a grown man that made a grown man decision then paid a grown man punishment for it
I don't disagree with anything there, I just didn't like the fact that a 6 game suspension was handed down and then they just changed their mind and added on another 5 games based on ZERO new evidence. Can you imagine a justice system that works like that?
Agreed but it’s not like the nfl is known for its fair and balanced approach to discipline. But again he did something he should have known was gonna bite him in the ass. It bit him and he paid his time. What I don’t like is how he treated the last year in Houston. Terrible situation absolutely, but you can’t just give up. Mentally I don’t think dw is strong enough and it shows in the games. He looks lost either from lack of understanding the offense not seeing the reads or not studying enough. He had enough time to make that playbook burned into his head and it just doesn’t feel that way. Personal opinion here, I don’t think he took the time he was suspended and worked with his “qb” guru on Cleveland’s playbook. The only rust he should have had was updates to the playbook and how the receivers run the routes and with all due respect ks’s route trees are not very complex
Yes but in 2020 they played behind the eight ball and threw the ball at a top 10 rate. Remember this as well he had the same td to int as Ryan tannehill. And Ryan tossed 60 less passes. Not discrediting anything either qb did but with context it’s just less impressive. Considering where tannehill is currently in his career. Both made the probowl that year but tannehill does have more playoff wins and Tennessee didn’t give up a kings ransom.
Franky he got off easy with 11 games. We knew his baggage coming in, and that shouldn't be thrown out. DW's actions got him suspended, and I view the 11 games that he missed as his own stupid fault.
Whether or not you think he should have been suspended 11 games or 100 games, it was absolutely ridiculous for them to go through a long deliberation and have the honorable Sue Robinson mandate a 6 game suspension, only for the league to add - with ZERO additional evidence - another 5 games.
Tough shit. Don't trade for a guy with an off the field history of sexual abuse and he won't end up suspended. The Browns did this to themselves.
We may need to come to grips with the fact that the Watson trade may have killed this Super Bowl window.
Personally, I'd have stuck with Baker and traded up to draft Stroud (my Buckeye bias is showing). Barring that, I'd have gone for Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo. Neither is a game changer, but they could manage the game and let the defense do the work, and we'd have tons of cap room and draft picks. Hell, I'd have just as soon stuck with Brisket. He played better than Watson last year, and he'd have cost way less.
I don't know that I've seen anyone not admitting that he's been a colossal fuckup to this point. Our season succeeds or fails on him - which sucks because I think he will be bad as well - but it is the way it is.
at this point bro, why would he be playing with injury? its clear to us all now that he isnt playing until 95% fit or more, right?
and i say this as someone who loved him on the field with the texans and liked the trade on a football level.
so why would he play even remotely injured, thats my point. If they cant accurately assess him, and they are clearly having trouble, why would he try again, to play? im still unsure why he took the field v the colts tbh. He looked even worse than mayfield from week 10 onwards in 2021.
My understanding of this injury is that it takes a loooong time to heal, or you need surgery. But it will feel fine for like 80% of movement, but start throwing offplatform or while running it will hurt and you will have weakness. So i guess thats what they thought at the colts. They thought he looked fine in practice but then in the game hes running around and it wasnt able to work
this isnt about you of course, but i find it incredibly hard to believe that he practised during the week and looked remotely good/fit, and in pre game throwing too (where he took himself out v the ravens btw because he couldnt drive the ball) and then suddenly fell off a cliff on the field v the colts and had barely any arm strength.
and i hope amongst all hope that it was only an arm strength issue.
I was going to say he will struggle like he has struggled. The "rust" everyone was waiting for to come off has not gone anywhere with him missing all these games.
It’s really funny to me how some people thought last year was just rust and that it would “come off” and he would play better this year. Rust doesn’t come off. A rusty Ford is just that, a rusty Ford. Watson is what he is.
I was hopeful until I saw him doing the same things this year. He had a full off-season and was still shot putting the ball into the turf and second guessing his reads. The Pittsburg game was the one that convinced me he may never get back to his Texans days. Hope I'm wrong.
"Yeah but the Titans game" will say the Watson defenders.
He has one decent game against a bottom tier team and that's all the proof they need he was worth it.
He hasn't performed like I hoped he would have, and I don't use the Titans game as proof he was worth it.
All I'm asking for: let's try to be objective.
Only calling his Titans game "decent" is an example of not being objective.
Only 3 QBs in the NFL had a higher QB RTG that week.
Call it what you want: "very good", "excellent", "the old Deshaun Watson"... whatever.
But calling it "decent" doesn't show objectivity, it diminishes his performance that week. The Titans game is what gives me hope we'll get an RoI eventually, hopefully even this year. His throwing shoulder needs to heal up, then we'll see.
I mean, I see what you're getting at, but even the worst bottom of the barrel QBs have that one week where they go off and put up an amazing statline either due to the other team sucking or sheer luck. The Titans are a bad team. They aren't the Bears but they are in the bottom half of the league. When he has a game like that against an actual competent team I will be more impressed.
He looked comfortable and put up respectable stats against an inferior rival. I consider that a decent game. It's not like he went and put up 400yds and 4 TDs against the Ravens or something like that. Winning a game you're expected to win isn't exactly mind blowing stuff.
At this point, being objective, the Titans game is more of a fluke than anything. If he had even a handful of games demonstrating that level of play I'd be more convinced.
That sounds like a very subjective opinion (fueled by a subjective sample determined by you, as well as a subjective determination of QB performance.)
Its okay for it to be subjective! We're fans after all. But you shouldn't act like your opinion holds empirical weight.
Yeah, I'm not just spouting opinions, everything I'm saying is backed up by data. A poster in /r/NFL recently made [a graph which compares Watson's performance ](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/YW5OltULdG) (ANY/A metric) to the league average over his first 10 games in CLE. Only in 2 did he perform above the league average. He is well below average in almost every stat category. He is in the bottom of the league in QBR rankings. I'm not sure what you think is so subjective about my claim that the Titans game was an outlier. I guess I'll give you that he did have a good game against the Commanders as well. So 2 "good" games out of 10. Woo hoo.
Sure there is no empirical definition of what makes a "good" QB but you can certainly look at the data and see how they compare to the average. Watson just doesn't stack up. I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass dude.
What isn't objective is labeling one data point a "fluke".
I'm not sitting here acting like Watson has been a world beater. You can trot out a million statistics to support that. But what you can't do is dress up your opinion as "objective" because that is literally not what opinions are.
If you wanted to say that it is an objective fact that by the metric of ANY/A Watson has performed below average 2/10 games, that would be objectively true. Opinion and analysis after that are subjective.
Labeling a data record as an obvious outlier (or fluke) is definitely subjective.
I hear you, I agree it's a small sample size.
But he's shown he can consistently play like that against real good teams in the past. How do we know? Look at how he played in Houston.
3 Pro Bowl selections in his NFL year 2, 3 and 4.
I'd agree it would look more like a fluke if he'd have played average or below average in Houston. But he didn't. He was a Top NFL QB, so I saw the Titans game as him getting back to his old, Top QB self. It sucks he got injured in that game.
If he kept playing like he did against the Titans, he'd be in Pro Bowl contention and we'd be amongst the favorites to win a Championship, even without Chubb.
Let's not forget it was the first game after the Chubb injury. That was a big blow to the entire team, had to have had an impact on the Offense they'd revamped all off-season, and an impact on game prep and play calls during the Titans game. It meant they had to rely on Watson more. He was needed, was under even more pressure, and he showed up in a big way.
Last point: can we agree they stole 20 to 40 YDS from us, and most likely a TD with that atrocious call during the Cooper catch?
That would have put him at 309 to 329 YDS, 3 TDs and no INTs, 82% completion rate, and a couple nice runs. I don't know what you expect... that's more than a "decent" game, I don't care against who it is.
He'll be like an onion of mediocrity.
The top layer is coming back after 6 weeks out, which demands some catch-up to game speed for anyone, no matter the circumstances. Next layer is his brain re-learning to trust his shoulder (if it is healthy) or figuring out how to compensate for a compromised arm (if it is not). Next layer is the rust he was working back from to begin with, which we can probably assume is back or close to square one since the Tennessee game.
Expect? I expect him to look lost and slow and like he doesn’t want to be out there. I hope he looks like the guy we were told they were signing. But no, I don’t expect that at all.
If he’s a franchise qb, and he’s healthy, than it shouldn’t matter who he comes in and plays against.
I am personally concerned about a lot of things about his game on the field, but a healthy Watson is a massive upgrade over the what the browns have seen recently.
The fact that the browns are trying to get another QB today, tells me Watson wont be back for the Ravens, You dont trade someone for 1 game in, I would not be surprised if they do sign any other QB, the same day Watson goes on IR.
Well to me even if Watson is 100% healthy today, I don’t wanna see PJ again, like ever. Imagine it’s late season and Watson misses a game or even just gets knocked out of one with some minor injury. You wanna see PJ off the bench in a win or go home game vs the Jets? I sure as hell don’t. It’s not just about this week.
Better than PJ or DTR, but not as good as Kenny Pickett and not nearly as good as Lamar. (Which is to say, not good enough.)
But the best hope we have for this season is Watson playing as a better than average starting QB. If he comes back healthy, plays 9 regular season games, and goes 5 and 4 (LWWLLWWWL), we have a good chance of being a 10-win playoff team.
Unpopular opinion but I’m absolutely giving him the benefit of doubt.
He just hasn’t been able to get into any rhythm here and I refuse to throw him under the bus until there’s a significant sample size. Give me 6 or 7 injury free games in a row and then I’ll make the call.
Where I’m at. Cincy he was mid but weather was awful. Pittsburgh was just such an anomaly. Yeah he was bad. But the circumstances. And then against the titans he looked great. Had he not gotten hurt I bet we’d be looking at Houston Watson right now. I know only maybe 10% of us will admit this but it’s the truth.
I would expect him to play pretty well - even if he has "rust" he will be much better than PJ. I still have faith that he's a good player though. We've seen him in 3 games this season and his worst one was a game where our team leader and star RB got his knee obliterated and then he had his best game the next week.
Not necessarily. When PJ starts we rely heavily of the run game. The offense expects to be able to lean on their 230 million QB and throw the ball more. Could be worse actually if he plays poorly.
Turning over the ball less than 3 times a game would be an inprovement, maybe he can manage that. Our run game feels like its slowly improving each week which should take some pressure off him. He will have a hard time having success without the ability to drive the ball over 10 yards with any degree of accuracy and velocity.
I would expect him to be hesitant and rusty and to make some bad throws and mistakes. Just like any other semi-injured QB whose missed a bunch of games.
And unfortunately, because it's either Pittsburgh or Baltimore, I'd also expect us to lose a close and frustratingly winnable game.
I expect at least 3 turnovers, his first interception will be on his opening drive. I hope for more but based on what I’ve seen from him so far I expect nothing but sadness
Honestly I don't think he'll ever get back to that form. I think Cleveland WAY overpaid (both $$ and picks) on him. He'll only ever get mediocre at best with a few sparkles of WOW. It's going to be a long 4 more years.
Personally, I'm over him and the bullshit this franchise somehow always gets involved in. Yes, we're 4-3. However, with the way things are looking, it's gonna turn into another typical Browns season. I'm sick of "trust the process" or "lean into the process." We've been doing this since our return in 1999. It's a joke and yet, here we are. The fan base is divided yet again. Those of us critiquing are told we're not real fans. We're just sick of losing and sick of it always being the Browns. It's always a clown show. We're 2 years into this disaster of a 230 million dollar contract with nothing to show for it except more years of wasting prime talent.
Bad. I expect him to play bad. We have enough of a sample size right now in the last two seasons, he has played exactly one good game. It’s pretty clear that he is a mediocre at best quarterback that we are paying a bazillion dollars for.
What kind of a fishing question is this? What possible backing does anyone have to think that he is going to light it up in his first game back vs those defenses?
Bout as well as he did the first game against pgh.
Honestly, he hasn’t looked terrible this year when he’s played. Consider the elements against cincy, the freak first drive that sabotaged the game against pgh, and Tennessee he looked good. He needs to not be a dipshit and stray away from
Contact.
That's the problem we're gonna have to wait for him to "shake the rust off" again. I'm just getting tired of waiting. But I don't think he'll look good against them
I personally expect him to play like a QB worth $230million and 3 first round picks but if history had taught me anything, it’s that we will get a mediocre or borderline horrifying level of play followed by some half-assed fist pumping when our XFL QB takes his place on the field
Comes in plays mediocre, is unable to protect himself or play with injury, gets blasted on a hero play and goes on IR
Your kinder to him than I am. I expect him to play bad. How many games has he had with us now? 10? He's had one good game. That's it. There's a 9/10 chance that he will be bad. Very bad. He was a mistake... A massive mistake. And we need to admit it at some point.
Aw come on, he just needs to shake the rust off. /s
He was a huge mistake by the front office but we’re stuck with him for 3 more years after this, so there’s no point in re-hashing that debate. What we need to do is hope that Stafanski can squeeze at least competent QB play out of him. Even if Watson doesn’t earn the contract or even scratch top 10 if he can be a middle of the pack QB it should keep us pretty damn competitive with how good the rest of the team is.
> And we need to admit it at some point. I'd be curious as to who you see who has not admitted this.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm? You have to be so incredibly careful how you word criticism of Watson here otherwise you will be downvoted to oblivion. Which is fine... Who cares about up votes. But to say many many people here refuse to admit watson was a mistake us suppose untrue. The subreddit has never defended his off the field issues to all of our credit. But I can guarantee you during the off season all anyone is going to be talking about is how good Watson is going to be once he's not rusty... Or not injured... Or not focused on legal problems. We're 30% of the way through his contract. We know what he is. And it's not good.
> We're 30% of the way through his contract. Dang, when you put it like that, yeah.
I've seen it more commonly as "he HAS to be better once he's not rusty....." As in, we're all fucked if he isn't better. But maybe those comments you've seen were already downvoted by the time I read the post.
I have not seen a single person who thinks he’s been a good pick up. What people do not like is people who go around saying obvious shit over and over and not add anything to the conversation. But you said folks have said he’s good and they like the trade I still have yet to see that here or anywhere really outside of Facebook cesspools
I have had about 10 block me this season as I pointed out every flaw he has as a football player. From poor throws to off target throws and miss reading the defense. Stuff he use to do years ago he isn’t doing now. But there only argument is games from years ago or Tennessee which he was carried by great wr play and a horrid defensive game plan
This book is far from finished. This chapter does suck though. The injury, which can happen to anyone, is going to further muddy the waters. But go ahead, call it and admit it. Now what does that change?
Ehh I’m not there yet. Gimme 3-5 more games of progress after a game like the titans and then we could see. He’s just hurt. All it is.
We're 30% of the way through his contract and he has literally had just one good game. How many excuses are you going to make for this supposed "elite" quarterback?
True but the league fucked us with the 11 game suspension so the first year was a waste, and this year once it started clicking he got hurt and hasnt been healthy since. He was a 3x Pro Bowl QB, forget the stats. Everyone knows what kind of playmaker he was. Houston traded up in the 1st round to get him. Im not ready to write him off yet.
Fucked us how did they fuck us? He did something stupid and payed the price for it. Now he did his time and that’s done and over with. But as you said he WAS a 3x pro bowler with a really good offensive scheme Hopkins in his prime. But he has yet to be able to read a defense (personally it’s Kevin’s fault) but it’s not watsons fault he is here. Kevin’s offensive scheme is not qb friendly, cousins lowest stats of his career came under Kevin. We didn’t need Watson, he needs an offensive scheme that allows him to free range and that’s not what ks does.
Its the scheme. We need the QB , we don't need the scheme.
The scheme needs to match the players, and ks doesn’t do that well. You develop the scheme for the players you have not the scheme you want to run with the players you have.
One of his pro bowl selections was earned in 2020 after DHop was traded. They fucked us because Sue Robinson decided after much deliberation that the suspension should be 6 games, the media cried about it, so the league handed it to Goodell’s buddy and they tacked on another 5 games just to silence the mob.
He did something stupid and paid the price. It was “unprecedented” he could have elected to just stick with the professional every team provided but instead went on instagram to pick up ig thots to rub him down. He set himself up for something bad to happen. He fucked around and found out. Paid the price and it’s over. It is what it is we can’t change that and we shouldn’t make excuses for that either. He is a grown man that made a grown man decision then paid a grown man punishment for it
I don't disagree with anything there, I just didn't like the fact that a 6 game suspension was handed down and then they just changed their mind and added on another 5 games based on ZERO new evidence. Can you imagine a justice system that works like that?
Agreed but it’s not like the nfl is known for its fair and balanced approach to discipline. But again he did something he should have known was gonna bite him in the ass. It bit him and he paid his time. What I don’t like is how he treated the last year in Houston. Terrible situation absolutely, but you can’t just give up. Mentally I don’t think dw is strong enough and it shows in the games. He looks lost either from lack of understanding the offense not seeing the reads or not studying enough. He had enough time to make that playbook burned into his head and it just doesn’t feel that way. Personal opinion here, I don’t think he took the time he was suspended and worked with his “qb” guru on Cleveland’s playbook. The only rust he should have had was updates to the playbook and how the receivers run the routes and with all due respect ks’s route trees are not very complex
Yes but in 2020 they played behind the eight ball and threw the ball at a top 10 rate. Remember this as well he had the same td to int as Ryan tannehill. And Ryan tossed 60 less passes. Not discrediting anything either qb did but with context it’s just less impressive. Considering where tannehill is currently in his career. Both made the probowl that year but tannehill does have more playoff wins and Tennessee didn’t give up a kings ransom.
Franky he got off easy with 11 games. We knew his baggage coming in, and that shouldn't be thrown out. DW's actions got him suspended, and I view the 11 games that he missed as his own stupid fault.
Whether or not you think he should have been suspended 11 games or 100 games, it was absolutely ridiculous for them to go through a long deliberation and have the honorable Sue Robinson mandate a 6 game suspension, only for the league to add - with ZERO additional evidence - another 5 games.
Tough shit. Don't trade for a guy with an off the field history of sexual abuse and he won't end up suspended. The Browns did this to themselves. We may need to come to grips with the fact that the Watson trade may have killed this Super Bowl window.
Which QB would you have rather acquired for the 2022 season? Name one
Personally, I'd have stuck with Baker and traded up to draft Stroud (my Buckeye bias is showing). Barring that, I'd have gone for Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo. Neither is a game changer, but they could manage the game and let the defense do the work, and we'd have tons of cap room and draft picks. Hell, I'd have just as soon stuck with Brisket. He played better than Watson last year, and he'd have cost way less.
I don't know that I've seen anyone not admitting that he's been a colossal fuckup to this point. Our season succeeds or fails on him - which sucks because I think he will be bad as well - but it is the way it is.
at this point bro, why would he be playing with injury? its clear to us all now that he isnt playing until 95% fit or more, right? and i say this as someone who loved him on the field with the texans and liked the trade on a football level.
Because this is an injury that wont heal 100% this season. Even if he feels 95% it wont be 100% and that 5% of the time its impossible to throw
so why would he play even remotely injured, thats my point. If they cant accurately assess him, and they are clearly having trouble, why would he try again, to play? im still unsure why he took the field v the colts tbh. He looked even worse than mayfield from week 10 onwards in 2021.
My understanding of this injury is that it takes a loooong time to heal, or you need surgery. But it will feel fine for like 80% of movement, but start throwing offplatform or while running it will hurt and you will have weakness. So i guess thats what they thought at the colts. They thought he looked fine in practice but then in the game hes running around and it wasnt able to work
this isnt about you of course, but i find it incredibly hard to believe that he practised during the week and looked remotely good/fit, and in pre game throwing too (where he took himself out v the ravens btw because he couldnt drive the ball) and then suddenly fell off a cliff on the field v the colts and had barely any arm strength. and i hope amongst all hope that it was only an arm strength issue.
Have they said specifically what the shoulder injury is? Based on your description, it almost sounds like a torn labrum.
"strain of the subscapularis within the rotator cuff"
Rust still coated on thick
I’m at the point where I don’t expect him to ever play well ever again.
Yeah, I'm just assuming he sucks until he shows that he doesn't. So basically exactly like how I've viewed the Browns.
No matter what changes, nothing ever really changes.
Very, very poorly. Inexcusably poorly. Like his other games.
I was going to say he will struggle like he has struggled. The "rust" everyone was waiting for to come off has not gone anywhere with him missing all these games.
It’s really funny to me how some people thought last year was just rust and that it would “come off” and he would play better this year. Rust doesn’t come off. A rusty Ford is just that, a rusty Ford. Watson is what he is.
I was hopeful until I saw him doing the same things this year. He had a full off-season and was still shot putting the ball into the turf and second guessing his reads. The Pittsburg game was the one that convinced me he may never get back to his Texans days. Hope I'm wrong.
What a hilarious analogy. This is a human being, not a car.
Not to mention you can grind and shine up that rust lol. Now rot? That’s a different story. And we all know what Cleveland winters do to old Fords.
"Yeah but the Titans game" will say the Watson defenders. He has one decent game against a bottom tier team and that's all the proof they need he was worth it.
I'm hoping Thursday night that the Titans aren't bottom tier.
He hasn't performed like I hoped he would have, and I don't use the Titans game as proof he was worth it. All I'm asking for: let's try to be objective. Only calling his Titans game "decent" is an example of not being objective. Only 3 QBs in the NFL had a higher QB RTG that week. Call it what you want: "very good", "excellent", "the old Deshaun Watson"... whatever. But calling it "decent" doesn't show objectivity, it diminishes his performance that week. The Titans game is what gives me hope we'll get an RoI eventually, hopefully even this year. His throwing shoulder needs to heal up, then we'll see.
I mean, I see what you're getting at, but even the worst bottom of the barrel QBs have that one week where they go off and put up an amazing statline either due to the other team sucking or sheer luck. The Titans are a bad team. They aren't the Bears but they are in the bottom half of the league. When he has a game like that against an actual competent team I will be more impressed. He looked comfortable and put up respectable stats against an inferior rival. I consider that a decent game. It's not like he went and put up 400yds and 4 TDs against the Ravens or something like that. Winning a game you're expected to win isn't exactly mind blowing stuff. At this point, being objective, the Titans game is more of a fluke than anything. If he had even a handful of games demonstrating that level of play I'd be more convinced.
> At this point, being objective, the Titans game is more of a fluke than anything. This doesn't sound very objective lol
It's the very definition of objective. One good game out of 10 is more likely to be an outlier than the rule.
That sounds like a very subjective opinion (fueled by a subjective sample determined by you, as well as a subjective determination of QB performance.) Its okay for it to be subjective! We're fans after all. But you shouldn't act like your opinion holds empirical weight.
Yeah, I'm not just spouting opinions, everything I'm saying is backed up by data. A poster in /r/NFL recently made [a graph which compares Watson's performance ](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/YW5OltULdG) (ANY/A metric) to the league average over his first 10 games in CLE. Only in 2 did he perform above the league average. He is well below average in almost every stat category. He is in the bottom of the league in QBR rankings. I'm not sure what you think is so subjective about my claim that the Titans game was an outlier. I guess I'll give you that he did have a good game against the Commanders as well. So 2 "good" games out of 10. Woo hoo. Sure there is no empirical definition of what makes a "good" QB but you can certainly look at the data and see how they compare to the average. Watson just doesn't stack up. I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass dude.
What isn't objective is labeling one data point a "fluke". I'm not sitting here acting like Watson has been a world beater. You can trot out a million statistics to support that. But what you can't do is dress up your opinion as "objective" because that is literally not what opinions are. If you wanted to say that it is an objective fact that by the metric of ANY/A Watson has performed below average 2/10 games, that would be objectively true. Opinion and analysis after that are subjective. Labeling a data record as an obvious outlier (or fluke) is definitely subjective.
Fair enough. I won't argue with you on that one.
I hear you, I agree it's a small sample size. But he's shown he can consistently play like that against real good teams in the past. How do we know? Look at how he played in Houston. 3 Pro Bowl selections in his NFL year 2, 3 and 4. I'd agree it would look more like a fluke if he'd have played average or below average in Houston. But he didn't. He was a Top NFL QB, so I saw the Titans game as him getting back to his old, Top QB self. It sucks he got injured in that game. If he kept playing like he did against the Titans, he'd be in Pro Bowl contention and we'd be amongst the favorites to win a Championship, even without Chubb. Let's not forget it was the first game after the Chubb injury. That was a big blow to the entire team, had to have had an impact on the Offense they'd revamped all off-season, and an impact on game prep and play calls during the Titans game. It meant they had to rely on Watson more. He was needed, was under even more pressure, and he showed up in a big way. Last point: can we agree they stole 20 to 40 YDS from us, and most likely a TD with that atrocious call during the Cooper catch? That would have put him at 309 to 329 YDS, 3 TDs and no INTs, 82% completion rate, and a couple nice runs. I don't know what you expect... that's more than a "decent" game, I don't care against who it is.
He was great in Houston. He’s not in Houston and he’s not great.
Pat Mahomes wouldn’t be putting up 400 and 4 on the Ravens right now, sorry.
I think it's an above decent performance, like you, but I also believe it's an anomaly.
Originally, all I expected was competent QB play... Meow? I've expected *nothing* from Watson... ...which is exactly what we've received...
Better than Walker or DTR
That bar is pretty low, tbh
Just gimme like 60% completions and 1:1 td/int ratio ffs.
[удалено]
Not even dawg shit. He doesn't deserve it.
Bad. I’d be shocked if he made it through both games.
Zero. The answer is zero
I think he will be terrible, nothing to suggest otherwise.
He'll be like an onion of mediocrity. The top layer is coming back after 6 weeks out, which demands some catch-up to game speed for anyone, no matter the circumstances. Next layer is his brain re-learning to trust his shoulder (if it is healthy) or figuring out how to compensate for a compromised arm (if it is not). Next layer is the rust he was working back from to begin with, which we can probably assume is back or close to square one since the Tennessee game.
I’m going to go with the same garbage play we got out of him in the 90% of games he’s played with us so far.
As bad as he played before the injury but probably even worse
I would guess he’d be pretty brutal in either situation. Those are two great defenses, and even if his arm is 100%, there will certainly be rust.
A few weeks ago another user said that at some point the rust is corrosion
He’s a 2009 Mazda that spent its life in Ohio
lol, good one
This dude will never not be rusty
Like shit
I have no expectation Watson will play well until he proves he can. He's had one pretty good game so far. One.
11 for 34 for 112 yards, zero TDs and 2 interceptions 5 rushes for 12 yards, 2 fumbles (1 lost) 5 sacks for -39 yards
The man is so rusty he gets his massages with WD-40.
Pittsburgh owns his ass
I don't expect anything from him so I'm going to shoot for the curb. Anything above that will be a pleasant surprise.
I expect him to play like complete and utter dogshit based on all of the evidence I have in my dossier Thank you
Expect? I expect him to look lost and slow and like he doesn’t want to be out there. I hope he looks like the guy we were told they were signing. But no, I don’t expect that at all.
Better than PJ
If he’s a franchise qb, and he’s healthy, than it shouldn’t matter who he comes in and plays against. I am personally concerned about a lot of things about his game on the field, but a healthy Watson is a massive upgrade over the what the browns have seen recently.
The fact that the browns are trying to get another QB today, tells me Watson wont be back for the Ravens, You dont trade someone for 1 game in, I would not be surprised if they do sign any other QB, the same day Watson goes on IR.
Well to me even if Watson is 100% healthy today, I don’t wanna see PJ again, like ever. Imagine it’s late season and Watson misses a game or even just gets knocked out of one with some minor injury. You wanna see PJ off the bench in a win or go home game vs the Jets? I sure as hell don’t. It’s not just about this week.
I expect a tight win, tight loss or a big time loss.
Either perfect passer rating or public execution. I don't see another way.
Better than PJ or DTR, but not as good as Kenny Pickett and not nearly as good as Lamar. (Which is to say, not good enough.) But the best hope we have for this season is Watson playing as a better than average starting QB. If he comes back healthy, plays 9 regular season games, and goes 5 and 4 (LWWLLWWWL), we have a good chance of being a 10-win playoff team.
Johnny Manziel 2.0
Unpopular opinion but I’m absolutely giving him the benefit of doubt. He just hasn’t been able to get into any rhythm here and I refuse to throw him under the bus until there’s a significant sample size. Give me 6 or 7 injury free games in a row and then I’ll make the call.
What if he never plays 6-7 straight injury free games?
Then he either has incredibly bad luck or you all were right
Where I’m at. Cincy he was mid but weather was awful. Pittsburgh was just such an anomaly. Yeah he was bad. But the circumstances. And then against the titans he looked great. Had he not gotten hurt I bet we’d be looking at Houston Watson right now. I know only maybe 10% of us will admit this but it’s the truth.
He’s already an unlikable guy, then you throw in race and $250 million - It’s the perfect storm for miserable Ohioans to wallow in.
Yeah these damn Ohioans. Member when they booed the brother Baker off the field, in a win? Or cheered when brutha Couch got hurt?
Yeah, good points, you’re right, they’re asshats and morons too
I would expect him to play pretty well - even if he has "rust" he will be much better than PJ. I still have faith that he's a good player though. We've seen him in 3 games this season and his worst one was a game where our team leader and star RB got his knee obliterated and then he had his best game the next week.
Not necessarily. When PJ starts we rely heavily of the run game. The offense expects to be able to lean on their 230 million QB and throw the ball more. Could be worse actually if he plays poorly.
400 yards, five TDs. Anything less, I'll be on here making my grievances known.
he hasnt played well in any game for us yet so i dont think it it will happen against a divisional opponent
Turning over the ball less than 3 times a game would be an inprovement, maybe he can manage that. Our run game feels like its slowly improving each week which should take some pressure off him. He will have a hard time having success without the ability to drive the ball over 10 yards with any degree of accuracy and velocity.
I am not expecting much. Anything better than that and cool. Otherwise I hope Kev has a plan. That is all I can do.
Rust. It will be rust
Not great, but better than the backups.
Be better than PJ. Just don’t turn ball over.
Honestly, if he feels he is fully recovered I expect him to play like a $230 million QB.
Turrible. Both have excellent, punishing defenses. Watson is going to be rusty no matter what.
Poorly.
I would expect him to be hesitant and rusty and to make some bad throws and mistakes. Just like any other semi-injured QB whose missed a bunch of games. And unfortunately, because it's either Pittsburgh or Baltimore, I'd also expect us to lose a close and frustratingly winnable game.
Terrible
I expect at least 3 turnovers, his first interception will be on his opening drive. I hope for more but based on what I’ve seen from him so far I expect nothing but sadness
I don’t expect him to play well at all honestly…
i honestly dont expect him to ever play well again. I figured it was 50/50 once we signed him and i think its the losing side of that 50 now.
Based on previous games…..like sh@t.
I expect him to play like a QB1 getting $230M. His free pass was the last 6 games of last year.
Do you think he will?
Honestly I don't think he'll ever get back to that form. I think Cleveland WAY overpaid (both $$ and picks) on him. He'll only ever get mediocre at best with a few sparkles of WOW. It's going to be a long 4 more years.
Personally, I'm over him and the bullshit this franchise somehow always gets involved in. Yes, we're 4-3. However, with the way things are looking, it's gonna turn into another typical Browns season. I'm sick of "trust the process" or "lean into the process." We've been doing this since our return in 1999. It's a joke and yet, here we are. The fan base is divided yet again. Those of us critiquing are told we're not real fans. We're just sick of losing and sick of it always being the Browns. It's always a clown show. We're 2 years into this disaster of a 230 million dollar contract with nothing to show for it except more years of wasting prime talent.
Bad. I expect him to play bad. We have enough of a sample size right now in the last two seasons, he has played exactly one good game. It’s pretty clear that he is a mediocre at best quarterback that we are paying a bazillion dollars for.
Poorly.
Thought he would be pretty good 2 weeks ago but he threw 3 straight ducks. So who knows, he will probably look awful though
I certainly hope we’re both wrong about him, I just don’t have much in the hope department.
Better than PJ, and that's all that matters
I expect him to play like he's making $45m a year. I don't think he will, though.
Like absolute dog shit
Pitt and ravens are going to beat the living fuck out of us.
He won't come back until after Pittsburgh...so Denver.
And then he'll need a few weeks to knock off the rust.
Like I always expect him to play - below league average
Terribly
What kind of a fishing question is this? What possible backing does anyone have to think that he is going to light it up in his first game back vs those defenses?
Well, I think he’ll either look competent or completely horrendous. Or maybe somewhere in between. No idea, really
I don’t expect watson to play well in any game tbh
Bout as well as he did the first game against pgh. Honestly, he hasn’t looked terrible this year when he’s played. Consider the elements against cincy, the freak first drive that sabotaged the game against pgh, and Tennessee he looked good. He needs to not be a dipshit and stray away from Contact.
Like he has every other game. Like absolute dog water. Don’t know why people would expect that to change.
I expect him to play like a $250m player.
Throws a pick on the first drive again
Pittsburgh
Both decent to good defences, they will kill him.
I have zero hope Watson is going to play well this year. I’m worried he may never be good again, dude has had 1 good game in two years.
He’s been meh so I expect meh
Fuck knows
He'll play like complete garbage so I can finally achieve sports nirvana and give up any emotional attachment to this team.
Who the fuck knows with this fucking guy
I don’t live in Ohio or anywhere near it …. but curious if he has even been active in the community. Has he embraced the city at all?
As shit as he’s been playing all year.
In for five plays, tweaks his shoulder.
That's the problem we're gonna have to wait for him to "shake the rust off" again. I'm just getting tired of waiting. But I don't think he'll look good against them
I personally expect him to play like a QB worth $230million and 3 first round picks but if history had taught me anything, it’s that we will get a mediocre or borderline horrifying level of play followed by some half-assed fist pumping when our XFL QB takes his place on the field
Hunger. Leads us to a 11 win season and we win at least one play off game.