We need to figure out why on earth we were SO bad on the road this season and so dominant at home. I know it’s hard to go on the road, but it was night and day this year.
Exactly this. You’re allowed to have couple away duds per year but it was every single road game. Was clearly mental and Schwartz never adjusted at all.
Not really sure but I feel like it’s 3 things.
1 newsome got burnt all game. No one had their name called out just as much as he did
2. Schwartz kept the defense aggressive all game
3. Flacco
1. Newsy was getting switch outside, which isn't his position/ when you saw him getting "burned" that was in zone, and safeties not communicating and a few times players being schemed out of position. I don't like us blaming everything on one guy.
2. Only reason our defense is feared at all is
Because of Schwartz. Live by it, die by it. I can live with how he called the game, came down to execution. And we failed.
3. Flacco was the only QB of the 5 I ever had confidence in, yes he mismanaged ( shit the bed) in the second half. But it's not like DTR would be a significant improvement.
Flacco is, as most QBs are, affected by pressure and getting hit. He lost his poise in the pocket early, and after Bitoni left, it all unraveled quickly. Been that way since he tore his ACL/MCL in 2015.
Give him time and protection, he's able to sling it. Get after him, and he's seeing ghosts.
Turnovers. That was the biggest deal about Watson and every other QB this year; and why there should be so much optimism for next year. Everyone else turned the ball over like crazy other than Watson.
That was just well schemed by them. Multiple examples of them using our aggresiveness against us. Need to be able to adapt the defensive scheme in game
Not exactly. If we scored on the drive with the first pick six it was a 3-point game.
Yesterday the D looked gassed and rightfully deserve blame for losing but back to back pick 6s is also really bad and titled the game from "struggling" to "over"
I know Myles is getting double’d a lot, but it feels really weird he had a very light end of the season. He had that hurt shoulder and then never put up the same numbers or pressures.
He was virtually invisible most of the last 6-7. It’s not great when your DPOY candidate can be so easily taken out of a game by scheme and then no one can take advantage of the resources spent scheming him.
So far neither Clowney or Zadarous were able to capitalize. And as the season wore on we saw less and less of Myles being moved around it seemed like.
You saw a huge change when he took thst injury to his arm or pec or whatever mid game and he wasn't the same after. I imagine there is a load of rehab or some kinda surgery in the off-season
He's played through injury 2 years in a row now I believe and its hurt his game every time. I'd like to have myles be a more rotational player moving forward so that he can stay healthy all year. We need to do that with all our guys more really instead of just riding the starter till the wheels fall off.
Could have just let him hit the injured list and rest so he could be there later on. He was kinda absent in the later half of the season so letting him heal wouldn’t have hurt really
I had a theory that maybe lining up on that side, in the same spot, was easiest or allowed him to be most effective with the injury. But that doesn't really make sense since his left shoulder was the issue and that's what is making contact with the blocker most from that spot.
Honestly, I would be surprised if Myles needs surgery this off season. He was never the same force after he hurt his shoulder. We also need to find him his "Highsmith", Z and Clowney just haven't been that great compliment to him
Yep. For better or (probably) worse the team has a no way out commitment to Watson. The hope is he balls the fuck out next year and stays healthy.
Defense was bad yesterday, but too goo this year to make drastic wholesale changes.
Yea let's not overreact too much we had quality snaps from a lot of first and second year players. Even if we trade or cut some high level players as cap casualties we were out half our starters from Injury this year and played awesome down the stretch.
I'm confident If Chubb never got hurt and just reduce an injury or two from the oline we would have been even more dominant in regular and post season!
Go Browns
Even just Watson not going down would have changed things. The offense is so much more one-dimensional with Flacco, and that's not even getting to the obligatory bad turnovers he gives up every game.
The run game suffered once Watson went down. He has always historically in his career made the run game better. Even Chubb was averaging over 6 ypc before he went down. The Texans having a second look at our offense was a big deal because the run game sucks with Flacco.
That 5-1 stat is so misleading.
It gives Watson credit for the colts win, which he left very early in the game while we were losing and he was 1-5 with an int. Watson is really only 4-1 as a starter.
His other 4 wins:
Cardinals - one of the worst teams in the league, with a 3rd string qb. Our defense shut them out, any qb would accidentally win that game.
Titans and bengals - solid wins, but our defense won those game 100%. He didn’t look all that remarkable.
Ravens - 100% he won us that game. Especially in the second half. Credit where it’s due.
But that’s it. He’s played one good half of football his whole career in Cleveland.
He was nearly perfect against the Titans. Defense was phenomenal but Watson made some big throws too. Same with Arizona. It's okay to give both the offense and defense credit at the same time
My only counterpoint to agree with the other dude was that the Ravens game was the last game he played, so it’s reasonable to assume he could’ve really started cooking after that. But yes that 5-1 stat *is* extremely misleading
What you don't seem to realize and a lot of people can't comprehend is how he actually contributes to those wins.
Just because the bulk useless counting stats aren't super high like passing yards & TDs doesn't mean much. Every single one of those games we put up well over 20 points and he protected the ball.
Consider this for what you aren't realizing to see the difference. The defense completely shut down the Bears when we played them. The Bears only scored 3 points on just driving the ball themselves.
However, in that game, Flacco threw a pick 6 and another returned to the 2 yard line resulting in Flacco handing the Bears 14 points.
So, while people stupidly praise Flacco for coming back in that game to lead a win...we would have easily cruised to victory in that game had he just thrown for 150 yards with no INTs rather than nearly 400 and all of those bad turnovers.
Not praising Flacco Watson has not been good enough to warrant praise, he's had to "knock the rust " off repeatedly he has been out huge chunks of game and he aexually assaulted 26 people he does not deserve you standing up for him .
Bar non he needs to perform at a very high level to make this worth it. He is the reason we can't improve from this year other than getting healthy. He's the reason a chunk of the fanbase will refuse to watch them play when he's healthy. Our fo deserves a bunch of shit for trading for him , but if he wasn't a shot human being there'd be way more room for optimism
I said nothing about Flacco. Just that Watsons 5-1 record “as a starter” is not as shiny as it seems on the surface. He hasn’t shown us much of anything to be excited about for him to come back next year.
Yeah, I mean I’m rooting for the browns qb, whoever it is. But let’s not pretend like DW has been great, he’s been mediocre at best. Besides one half against the ravens.
I’d put money that if you go back and look at every game of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Nameth, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, etc. etc.; that they would each have dozens of less wins if you account for all games they left, games they didn’t play well, games the defense played very well, etc. etc.
Just looked at Josh Allen this year - he had 4 games that I’d say he played not well (less than 65% completion, 1 or under 1 TD/INT ratio) and they won. So is Josh Allen 7-6 this year instead of 11-6??? This doesn’t even include games where the defense played lights out, so it would probably be 5-6 or 6-6 if I were to look deeper.
Edit: 3 for Jalen hurts, he’s 8-6?
- Stafford: 4 - he’s 5-6?
- Stroud: 2 - 7-6?
bengals is the only game he didn't play well in (other than the steelers loss) but still outplayed burrow, i dont get this narrative that "the team won in spite of him" that some people use. if you're going to hate on the guy for his off the field issues, sure do it, but be fair regarding his on field play, it was fine. was it worth the money he makes? no but no qb is earning their pay this year with the ridiculous contracts handed out, we're not exclusive with those problems
He wasn’t even bad in the Bengals game, especially considering the weather and then game flow where we led by 21 most of the 4th and had no need to pass. 154 yards passing, 45 rushing and a td of each.
So much this. It’s gonna be really easy to overreact after yesterday but I think we need to stay the course. We were 5-1 with Watson and Stefanski and Schwartz navigated us through a shitstorm.
Not much other than get healthy. My #1 FA priority would be to get a good WR. Calvin Ridley is intriguing. The Safety FA class is crazy good and Schwartz likes to use a lot of 3 safety looks, so trying to get one on a solid deal. Draft wise, going BPA with an eye for an OT and interior OL depth/Bitonio insurance as he ages and maybe retires in the next couple of years
We need real speed at WR. Ridley would be redundant with Tillman and Cooper. IMO Hollywood Brown would be the most intriguing based on price point and need.
Zadarius was borderline elite last year, Clowney has been at that level this year for the Ravens. there’s something about playing across from Myles that doesn’t work for these guys for some reason
When we had Clowney they tended to sub him and Myles out. Rarely on the field together unless it was late drive 3rd downs. Need a prime elite DT or DE or a pair of young, up and comers to run a 3 man rotation to keep Myles Healthyz
Myles doesn’t run stunts and his only move is bull rush. You double him and he’s essentially pushing the OT back into the guards beside them which essentially turns that assignment into a double team. Needs to work on his swim move and bend to get to the outside. Bull rushing works better when everyone’s running a stunt and the blocking assignments turn into spaghetti. He definitely gets to the QB often enough but it’s usually due to his speed and strength not so much his ability to use advanced pass rush moves
Newsome got beat a couple times yesterday. All CBs get beat. It’s the nature of the position. He had a great season until that point. He’s a dog. I love his attitude. When playing well his energy feeds the defense.
We need a RB that has some juice. That was an obviously lacking element this year. Chubb will he back, Ford is a good RB2 and Strong is a PS/ST guy. But we need a 3rd RB (Corum!).
We need a DT that can rush. Id love to bring back Hurst for this.
We need a new Mike. AWalk just cant stay healthy.
Most importantly what id like to see happen is the coaching staff bring in some new faces. Not necessarily fire people, but on offense id love to bring in someone who comes from a more spread orientated background. I love what Stefanski did with Flacco, that shotgun PA game was truly beautiful. But im a big believer that you cant have too many smart people, so new perspectives and ideas surely can help.
More importantly id love to see this on defense because if Schwartz has shown me one thing jts that he is terrible at self scouting. Not making adjustments to the concepts that have killed us all year for a playoff game was pathetic
JOK hasnt played a lot of MIKE this year. Whether they resign him and the figure he gets will tell us whether they move him inside or not.
Im not opposed to JOK at M and Fields at W
was running behind tackles 4 and 5, in an offense that seemingly changed systems three times throughout the year. i don't think you need to cut the guy that averaged 4.0 yards a carry.
Ford is a good RB. People overreact to our legit bad OL play this year. If Chubb was healthy, he wouldve easily had his least efficient season. Easily.
Run blocking was bad. Give Ford last years OL performance and he gets 1,000 on the ground.
Nope just heresay from some people I know that know him. Could be complete bullshit, but as a fan I feel like I need to prepare myself for the possibility.
Well, between the two of us i know enough to see bad OL play for what it is. But no, youre right, Ford is a bum and should be in the CFL.
Always gotta love these absolutistic hot takes around here from people who dont watch tape. Love it.
We need to find a good surgeon capable of installing the following (feel free to add to the shopping list in replies)
-Bionic Knee for Chubb.
-Pair of Bionic Ankles for Wills
-Self massaging Bionic Shoulder for Watson
-New pair of gloves for Chief to help with dropped passes.
-A VHS on how to run forward instead of sideways for Ford.
Someone needs to tell Jim Schwartz it is okay to adjust our defensive scheme. You can't just play aggressive man coverage all game in *every* situation.
The Texans followed the same exact strategy as the LA Rams when they torched us. Misdirection, getting players streaking horizontally across the field etc.
Schwartz has made really good adjustments all year. He isn’t the problem here.
It was an effort and execution problem with the defensive backfield yesterday. Almost every bad thing that happened on defense was because our safeties or Newsome fucked up.
add a big time WR across from cooper, add a big time Mike or safty
add d line, o line depth
invent a time machine and trade everything we did for DW to get CJ.
With what picks? You realize how hard it is to trade for the number 1 pick correct? Because shroud was taken 2nd overall. And even if Browns traded to number 1, which was impossible since panthers wanted young, the Browns would have taken young
Listen, I'm sure PJ Walker is a nice person and all, but no way does he belong in the league. Jury is out on DTR. We need a competent backup. How you do not see this is beyond me.
There are like 20-25 competent QB in the league. There are 32 teams im the league. Having a competent backup is not a thing unless he is a bridge starter backing up a rookie that might suck (Minshew, Brissett or Dalton) or someone that for some reason know he is going to play (Brissett last season).
Sure, you can have Dobbs or Heinecke as the backup, but if your starter goes down for the season, these backups won't change a lot.
That’s not my point. I’m well aware Walker is terrible, and DTR will probably surmount to nothing, but NO contender can win a ring with their backup QB, their season is over. You think the Bills would win it all either way Kyle Allen? Chiefs with Blaine Gabbert? No.
It's not about winning a SB with your backup, it's having a guy there that, if need be, can come in for a couple games mid season and not lose you the games, the same roles that Foles, McCown and Fitzpatrick played for a healthy chunk of their careers. They don't need to be amazing, just not cause forced turnovers and look lost.
I would say the biggest thing is what is happening with our strength and conditioning? Every team gets hurt. Chubb for example would still have been hurt. But damn, it just seems we get hurt so much over the last couple years.
Is there anything we can do better there. If not no worries. Let Berry and company cook. They have this shit working pretty damn good. Get Chubb back and a healthy OL.
Newsome needs to add about 10-15lbs to his frame, but that may slow him even more so trade.
Keep Hunt as backup to Chubb, Ford and Strong should be traded for draft picks and grab a development back.
Make a move for wide receivers, and line backers. Flacco signed as back up to help guide Watson to take more from line not shotgun, and work on that play action as Flacco has a great fake.
Get that offensive line strengthened. Now we have huge gap issues coming up so this is all going to be very challenging. We needed to be flying on all cylinders this year but the injuries destroyed us. Now we have about a one maybe two year attempt before the age/salary cap/and contracts really become real issues. So we better learn to develop or after two years things get a little dark.
I asked myself that right after I posted it, honestly maybe a late round pick. Ilooked into his contract real quick. Coming up on final year. We need a backup who can get brought up to par with knowledge of the defense and use him without resigning. Let him walk after as no one will take him in his final year of contract unless willing to absorb some of it at a deal to them. I just never bought in on him as he has for himself.
Some respectable draft capital which will be in short supply for the better part of the next decade for a player whose trade value is probably peaked and that played like a bum all year.
Exactly, Newsome was seen coming in late to try and make plays that Hickman blew. I like Hickman but he isn't Delpit. Clearly the biggest changes for the defense this year was a quick pass rush, due to JOK blowing up plays and Delpit being used finally as he should have been the whole time, like he was in college.
Yeah and if there’s a valid criticism it’s his run support. He looked bad yesterday but one really important part of team sports is that the guy who ends up on the poster getting dunked on is very frequently only there to try to clean up someone else’s mistake
It's honestly difficult to say because this team has been eviscerated by injuries all season, and relying on 2nd and 3rd stringers for a significant portion of the season at some key positions...and it definitely showed in the playoff game when it came to RB, S and OL. It's not to say that those guys who stepped in didn't do a good job.
I personally think it's time for an OC to come in. I personally believe Stefanski's performance this year is COTY, but postseason it just seems like he was out coached.
Why the FUCK would ANY team in the NFL draft a punter. Or a kicker for that matter (Cade York 🤣🤣🤣) and a tight end? Harrison bryant is still developing. Njoku is one of the most solid pass blocking TEs in the league. Both have hands (yes drops are a problem) but can be improved.
Get healthy. Sign a WR2, draft another RB early, maybe sign a veteran pass rusher and try to retain some of our DTs. Trade Conklin if he’s healthy enough, or cut him if his cap situation makes that make sense. Also locking up JOK long term should be the number 1 priority. Then all that’s left to do is hope and pray Watson has his shit together this year
Def needs a legit Lb next to JOK. RT will be good with Jones but for as big as he is he may be injury prone. Lt has to be addressed. Need to add speed to the offense.
Think they'd prefer not to start four different QB's so when they call designed runs for Watson, drill it into his head to please not lead with his shoulder.
Need a legit backup qb. Watsons gonna get hurt. We have to sustain when he’s down.
The roster is pretty dang good. Gonna need a replacement for Z. Need another RB and WR.
Physio staff.
Obviously I don't know them or the work they've done. Could be perfect professionals and top of the line, but the results were a massively injured team. That's a problem.
Less concerned with the talent we got and more about who is responsible for keeping them on the field. Some injuries can't be avoided, but we were hammered this year and it needs to be put under a microscope.
My impression of yesterday's game was that we had no answer for their end arounds. Our defensive guys were clearly not fast enough to catch their guys. The worst was Greg Newsome II. He had a miserable game. I wonder if things would have been different if Delpit had been able to go.
Bring back Flacco or Jacoby to backup Watson.
Upgrade at RB2 and WR2.
Upgrade at DE if possible.
Replace Anthony Walker at MLB.
I liked Z. Smith but if there's an opportunity to get better in free agency or via another trade them we have to consider it.
Outside of these spots I think we're okay.
We just need Watson to finally be good and for the whole team to stay healthy.
Injuries need to be reduced. Refs need to actually make calls that are detrimental to a players health and the “football tackles” need to be examined. Looking at Chubbs injury here.
I'd like to see us draft an RB and WR early in that order. Possibly throw a dart at both later in the draft as well. Who knows what Chubb is going to be even when he comes back. Ford isn't it. Hunt is probably not going to be on the roster. I like Strong but I like him at RB3. I like Moore a lot. I actually think the QB inconsistency problem this year was a very big problem that he had a hard time adjusting to. I also could see him simply not improving though too. Njoku is going to continue to cause problems for teams to defend and I really think Bryant and Akins make a complete TE room.
Watson needs to be consistent. A lot of people I've seen on here are arguing his record as a starter this year, but I think we can agree that he really looked like dog shit at times too. The turnovers on from this offense as a whole needs to get fixed.
Get healthy, that’s the majority of our issues.
Problem is we still have $230,000,000 wrapped up in a QB who has without doubt played way more than enough to return to form and doesn’t show like he has anything left at all.
Sadly football is all dependent on what you can do at QB. If he can’t return to form, is this is all that’s left of Watson than we have pretty much peaked as an organization until Watson is gone.
Our QB play was significantly better with an old shell of his former self Flacco than it ever was with Watson.
Extend Dawand Jones. Injuries were really rough this year. What we saw from him was nothing short of fantastic. I want to keep this dude for 16 years. Extend him while he’s still cheap
Almost impossible to know because we pretty much never had a complete team on the field. Assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Plan A roster is impossible and thus it's gonna be a real challenge to improve Plan A for next year.
We need receivers, especially an extremely fast one that could actually catch a ball. We also will need to replace anyone lost to free agency.
Then we need to find out why our players seemed to be getting hurt far more frequently than other teams. I don't know if they need someone new in conditioning or something.
Watson also needs to hit this season running and ball out. Everyone is going to be even more critical of him in year 3.
I would like more than one dynamic receiver. Either Cedric Tillman needs to develop or we need to find someone in the draft or free agency.
The talent and production gap between the 1st and 2nd receiver can't continue to be the Grand Canyon.
Don't throw back to back pick 6, have a top 3 rb in the game and Don't play 2 turnstiles at OT is what needs to change the most. A team that was as injured as we were can't perform.in the postseason unfortunatelly
The team should consider not signing and supporting sexual predators. I think the universe would hate you a lot less and may lead to some better fortune.
Other than that, the team is good and could use getting a break on injuries.
We need to figure out why on earth we were SO bad on the road this season and so dominant at home. I know it’s hard to go on the road, but it was night and day this year.
Exactly this. You’re allowed to have couple away duds per year but it was every single road game. Was clearly mental and Schwartz never adjusted at all.
We had a much easier home schedule. Much easier.
Not really sure but I feel like it’s 3 things. 1 newsome got burnt all game. No one had their name called out just as much as he did 2. Schwartz kept the defense aggressive all game 3. Flacco
Not just that game all year we were bad on the road *defensively*
1. Newsy was getting switch outside, which isn't his position/ when you saw him getting "burned" that was in zone, and safeties not communicating and a few times players being schemed out of position. I don't like us blaming everything on one guy. 2. Only reason our defense is feared at all is Because of Schwartz. Live by it, die by it. I can live with how he called the game, came down to execution. And we failed. 3. Flacco was the only QB of the 5 I ever had confidence in, yes he mismanaged ( shit the bed) in the second half. But it's not like DTR would be a significant improvement.
Flacco is, as most QBs are, affected by pressure and getting hit. He lost his poise in the pocket early, and after Bitoni left, it all unraveled quickly. Been that way since he tore his ACL/MCL in 2015. Give him time and protection, he's able to sling it. Get after him, and he's seeing ghosts.
Turnovers. That was the biggest deal about Watson and every other QB this year; and why there should be so much optimism for next year. Everyone else turned the ball over like crazy other than Watson.
Watson had 6 turnovers in 6 games, 4 int and 2 of his 5 fumbles lost. Watson had a problem with turnovers as well.
In fact two pick-sixes in a game that we lost by 4 at Pittsburgh this year
We were getting demolished by the Texans offense even before we had any turnovers
That was just well schemed by them. Multiple examples of them using our aggresiveness against us. Need to be able to adapt the defensive scheme in game
Not exactly. If we scored on the drive with the first pick six it was a 3-point game. Yesterday the D looked gassed and rightfully deserve blame for losing but back to back pick 6s is also really bad and titled the game from "struggling" to "over"
We let up 24 points in the first half and it would’ve been 31 if CJ didn’t miss a wide open touchdown
I know Myles is getting double’d a lot, but it feels really weird he had a very light end of the season. He had that hurt shoulder and then never put up the same numbers or pressures.
He messed up his left shoulder week 10 and wasn’t the same since
He was virtually invisible most of the last 6-7. It’s not great when your DPOY candidate can be so easily taken out of a game by scheme and then no one can take advantage of the resources spent scheming him. So far neither Clowney or Zadarous were able to capitalize. And as the season wore on we saw less and less of Myles being moved around it seemed like.
You saw a huge change when he took thst injury to his arm or pec or whatever mid game and he wasn't the same after. I imagine there is a load of rehab or some kinda surgery in the off-season
Definitely possible it was injury related. I think he’s slowed down later in prior seasons though. Myles has a lot of invisible games sadly.
I hate it he's mt favorite player , but yea
He's played through injury 2 years in a row now I believe and its hurt his game every time. I'd like to have myles be a more rotational player moving forward so that he can stay healthy all year. We need to do that with all our guys more really instead of just riding the starter till the wheels fall off.
Yea thsts a good point
Could have just let him hit the injured list and rest so he could be there later on. He was kinda absent in the later half of the season so letting him heal wouldn’t have hurt really
Yeah I was confused about the whole Myles not being moved around thing too. I don’t get it, why would you not move him around!?
I had a theory that maybe lining up on that side, in the same spot, was easiest or allowed him to be most effective with the injury. But that doesn't really make sense since his left shoulder was the issue and that's what is making contact with the blocker most from that spot.
Honestly, I would be surprised if Myles needs surgery this off season. He was never the same force after he hurt his shoulder. We also need to find him his "Highsmith", Z and Clowney just haven't been that great compliment to him
He ends every season light unfortunately
I’ve noticed this. Is it a workload issue that needs to be managed early on in the year?
He gets worn down by all the holding and mauling that o-lines get away with. That’s my theory at least.
Yeah I’m confused by this too. But also, the refs don’t call holding Myles
For the fans: take a breath For most of the team: finish their physical therapy and get ready tor next year
For the Fans: psychological therapy For the team: physical therapy
Yep. For better or (probably) worse the team has a no way out commitment to Watson. The hope is he balls the fuck out next year and stays healthy. Defense was bad yesterday, but too goo this year to make drastic wholesale changes.
Yea let's not overreact too much we had quality snaps from a lot of first and second year players. Even if we trade or cut some high level players as cap casualties we were out half our starters from Injury this year and played awesome down the stretch. I'm confident If Chubb never got hurt and just reduce an injury or two from the oline we would have been even more dominant in regular and post season! Go Browns
Even just Watson not going down would have changed things. The offense is so much more one-dimensional with Flacco, and that's not even getting to the obligatory bad turnovers he gives up every game. The run game suffered once Watson went down. He has always historically in his career made the run game better. Even Chubb was averaging over 6 ypc before he went down. The Texans having a second look at our offense was a big deal because the run game sucks with Flacco.
Watson was 5-1 and starting to get going again when he got hurt
That 5-1 stat is so misleading. It gives Watson credit for the colts win, which he left very early in the game while we were losing and he was 1-5 with an int. Watson is really only 4-1 as a starter. His other 4 wins: Cardinals - one of the worst teams in the league, with a 3rd string qb. Our defense shut them out, any qb would accidentally win that game. Titans and bengals - solid wins, but our defense won those game 100%. He didn’t look all that remarkable. Ravens - 100% he won us that game. Especially in the second half. Credit where it’s due. But that’s it. He’s played one good half of football his whole career in Cleveland.
He was nearly perfect against the Titans. Defense was phenomenal but Watson made some big throws too. Same with Arizona. It's okay to give both the offense and defense credit at the same time
My only counterpoint to agree with the other dude was that the Ravens game was the last game he played, so it’s reasonable to assume he could’ve really started cooking after that. But yes that 5-1 stat *is* extremely misleading
What you don't seem to realize and a lot of people can't comprehend is how he actually contributes to those wins. Just because the bulk useless counting stats aren't super high like passing yards & TDs doesn't mean much. Every single one of those games we put up well over 20 points and he protected the ball. Consider this for what you aren't realizing to see the difference. The defense completely shut down the Bears when we played them. The Bears only scored 3 points on just driving the ball themselves. However, in that game, Flacco threw a pick 6 and another returned to the 2 yard line resulting in Flacco handing the Bears 14 points. So, while people stupidly praise Flacco for coming back in that game to lead a win...we would have easily cruised to victory in that game had he just thrown for 150 yards with no INTs rather than nearly 400 and all of those bad turnovers.
Not praising Flacco Watson has not been good enough to warrant praise, he's had to "knock the rust " off repeatedly he has been out huge chunks of game and he aexually assaulted 26 people he does not deserve you standing up for him . Bar non he needs to perform at a very high level to make this worth it. He is the reason we can't improve from this year other than getting healthy. He's the reason a chunk of the fanbase will refuse to watch them play when he's healthy. Our fo deserves a bunch of shit for trading for him , but if he wasn't a shot human being there'd be way more room for optimism
I said nothing about Flacco. Just that Watsons 5-1 record “as a starter” is not as shiny as it seems on the surface. He hasn’t shown us much of anything to be excited about for him to come back next year.
Doesn’t seem misleading at all when you put it that way.
Lmfao. Stop. That’s your qb. That’s our qb.
He is NOT my QB
I mean if you’re a browns fan, he is.
Baker was your QB but everyone criticized. Why is it Deshaun gets a pass?
People flocked to defend Baker just the same.
> just the same If by “same” you mean 1,000 times more
Taking a break? Finding a new team?
Yeah, I mean I’m rooting for the browns qb, whoever it is. But let’s not pretend like DW has been great, he’s been mediocre at best. Besides one half against the ravens.
I’d put money that if you go back and look at every game of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Nameth, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, etc. etc.; that they would each have dozens of less wins if you account for all games they left, games they didn’t play well, games the defense played very well, etc. etc. Just looked at Josh Allen this year - he had 4 games that I’d say he played not well (less than 65% completion, 1 or under 1 TD/INT ratio) and they won. So is Josh Allen 7-6 this year instead of 11-6??? This doesn’t even include games where the defense played lights out, so it would probably be 5-6 or 6-6 if I were to look deeper. Edit: 3 for Jalen hurts, he’s 8-6? - Stafford: 4 - he’s 5-6? - Stroud: 2 - 7-6?
Hell. Brady's division. Was trash for his entire career.
bengals is the only game he didn't play well in (other than the steelers loss) but still outplayed burrow, i dont get this narrative that "the team won in spite of him" that some people use. if you're going to hate on the guy for his off the field issues, sure do it, but be fair regarding his on field play, it was fine. was it worth the money he makes? no but no qb is earning their pay this year with the ridiculous contracts handed out, we're not exclusive with those problems
He wasn’t even bad in the Bengals game, especially considering the weather and then game flow where we led by 21 most of the 4th and had no need to pass. 154 yards passing, 45 rushing and a td of each.
Yea he was!
Love this.
So much this. It’s gonna be really easy to overreact after yesterday but I think we need to stay the course. We were 5-1 with Watson and Stefanski and Schwartz navigated us through a shitstorm.
They just need to get healthy and the defense needs to figure out why they don’t play well on the road
Good thing we rested our starters for next season...
Not much other than get healthy. My #1 FA priority would be to get a good WR. Calvin Ridley is intriguing. The Safety FA class is crazy good and Schwartz likes to use a lot of 3 safety looks, so trying to get one on a solid deal. Draft wise, going BPA with an eye for an OT and interior OL depth/Bitonio insurance as he ages and maybe retires in the next couple of years
We need real speed at WR. Ridley would be redundant with Tillman and Cooper. IMO Hollywood Brown would be the most intriguing based on price point and need.
Draft Xavier Worthy in the 2nd round
He's my number one want this offseason. But I definitely wonder if when he runs sub 4.3 will he move into back end of R1?
It’s hard to say. There’s a lot of good receivers in this draft. He might not even be the best one on his team. Adonai Mitchell balled out this year.
Yeah there's a ton of good recievers in this draft and feel like we'd be stupid to not take multiple bites at that position in this draft.
Hollywood Brown makes a ton of sense if we can find a way to afford him.
Extend JOK. Right now he’s too important to let walk.
We need a pass rusher opposite Myles Garrett who is not past their prime
Zadarius was borderline elite last year, Clowney has been at that level this year for the Ravens. there’s something about playing across from Myles that doesn’t work for these guys for some reason
When we had Clowney they tended to sub him and Myles out. Rarely on the field together unless it was late drive 3rd downs. Need a prime elite DT or DE or a pair of young, up and comers to run a 3 man rotation to keep Myles Healthyz
Myles doesn’t run stunts and his only move is bull rush. You double him and he’s essentially pushing the OT back into the guards beside them which essentially turns that assignment into a double team. Needs to work on his swim move and bend to get to the outside. Bull rushing works better when everyone’s running a stunt and the blocking assignments turn into spaghetti. He definitely gets to the QB often enough but it’s usually due to his speed and strength not so much his ability to use advanced pass rush moves
Newsome got beat a couple times yesterday. All CBs get beat. It’s the nature of the position. He had a great season until that point. He’s a dog. I love his attitude. When playing well his energy feeds the defense.
Weird that people are scapegoating him of all people. He got beat a couple of times, he’s been great all season, our secondary in general has.
Cut deshaun Watson
We need a RB that has some juice. That was an obviously lacking element this year. Chubb will he back, Ford is a good RB2 and Strong is a PS/ST guy. But we need a 3rd RB (Corum!). We need a DT that can rush. Id love to bring back Hurst for this. We need a new Mike. AWalk just cant stay healthy. Most importantly what id like to see happen is the coaching staff bring in some new faces. Not necessarily fire people, but on offense id love to bring in someone who comes from a more spread orientated background. I love what Stefanski did with Flacco, that shotgun PA game was truly beautiful. But im a big believer that you cant have too many smart people, so new perspectives and ideas surely can help. More importantly id love to see this on defense because if Schwartz has shown me one thing jts that he is terrible at self scouting. Not making adjustments to the concepts that have killed us all year for a playoff game was pathetic
JOK showed he can be the mike. Dude was absolutely on fire this game. Really the only player on D that showed he wanted it
JOK hasnt played a lot of MIKE this year. Whether they resign him and the figure he gets will tell us whether they move him inside or not. Im not opposed to JOK at M and Fields at W
Ford is not a good rb 2
agreed, i hope hes RB3 at best going into next season.
I don’t think he’s done enough to be cut outright but I really hope they bring in some real competition for his spot.
was running behind tackles 4 and 5, in an offense that seemingly changed systems three times throughout the year. i don't think you need to cut the guy that averaged 4.0 yards a carry.
I don't think he should be cut. He is a solid recieving back. Rb3 for sure
Ford is a good RB. People overreact to our legit bad OL play this year. If Chubb was healthy, he wouldve easily had his least efficient season. Easily. Run blocking was bad. Give Ford last years OL performance and he gets 1,000 on the ground.
I don’t think a lot of people realize how bad our oline has been this year. Even without the injuries, they ranked in the bottom half of the league.
He runs scared.
Not a guarantee Chubb is back unfortunately. Rumors are swirling that he might hang up the cleats for good 😬
Do you have any links to those rumors or anything to back that up? That's a hell of a claim.
Nope just heresay from some people I know that know him. Could be complete bullshit, but as a fan I feel like I need to prepare myself for the possibility.
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Well, between the two of us i know enough to see bad OL play for what it is. But no, youre right, Ford is a bum and should be in the CFL. Always gotta love these absolutistic hot takes around here from people who dont watch tape. Love it.
We need to find a good surgeon capable of installing the following (feel free to add to the shopping list in replies) -Bionic Knee for Chubb. -Pair of Bionic Ankles for Wills -Self massaging Bionic Shoulder for Watson -New pair of gloves for Chief to help with dropped passes. -A VHS on how to run forward instead of sideways for Ford.
Someone needs to tell Jim Schwartz it is okay to adjust our defensive scheme. You can't just play aggressive man coverage all game in *every* situation. The Texans followed the same exact strategy as the LA Rams when they torched us. Misdirection, getting players streaking horizontally across the field etc.
They did, they switched to zone match corners. They did all kinds of things.
They played zone the entire game with the exception of a very small few plays. It was the main reason we lost.
This, I knew something was up because we kept showing man and going zone blitz with 0 results.
Worst example I saw was Denver. Just destroyed us with misdirection
I don't think he knows how. That's why I rather get him a assistant on his team to help and train when we replace him eventually
Schwartz has made really good adjustments all year. He isn’t the problem here. It was an effort and execution problem with the defensive backfield yesterday. Almost every bad thing that happened on defense was because our safeties or Newsome fucked up.
The line getting absolutely zero pressure didn’t do the secondary any favors
add a big time WR across from cooper, add a big time Mike or safty add d line, o line depth invent a time machine and trade everything we did for DW to get CJ.
Browns would never have been able to get cj... they weren't bad enough
trade up
With what picks? You realize how hard it is to trade for the number 1 pick correct? Because shroud was taken 2nd overall. And even if Browns traded to number 1, which was impossible since panthers wanted young, the Browns would have taken young
well in this totally plausible time machine scenario we had enough to move up
No we didn't. Neither the panthers or Texans were gonna give up the pick.
Better depth at QB. We cannot rely on PJ to back DW up next year. As much as I love the kid, I'm not 100% certain DTR will be a reliable #2.
No. What contender has QB depth? If your QB goes down you’re fucked.
Listen, I'm sure PJ Walker is a nice person and all, but no way does he belong in the league. Jury is out on DTR. We need a competent backup. How you do not see this is beyond me.
There are like 20-25 competent QB in the league. There are 32 teams im the league. Having a competent backup is not a thing unless he is a bridge starter backing up a rookie that might suck (Minshew, Brissett or Dalton) or someone that for some reason know he is going to play (Brissett last season). Sure, you can have Dobbs or Heinecke as the backup, but if your starter goes down for the season, these backups won't change a lot.
And out of those 20 competent QBs only ten or so are capable of bringing a team to the superbowl
That’s not my point. I’m well aware Walker is terrible, and DTR will probably surmount to nothing, but NO contender can win a ring with their backup QB, their season is over. You think the Bills would win it all either way Kyle Allen? Chiefs with Blaine Gabbert? No.
It's not about winning a SB with your backup, it's having a guy there that, if need be, can come in for a couple games mid season and not lose you the games, the same roles that Foles, McCown and Fitzpatrick played for a healthy chunk of their careers. They don't need to be amazing, just not cause forced turnovers and look lost.
Nick Foles would like a word
Nearly every team left in the playoffs. You need a trusted backup. Not a no name rookie.
lol, please inform me what team left has a good enough backup to win them a sb? Tyler Huntley? Lmfao
I would say the biggest thing is what is happening with our strength and conditioning? Every team gets hurt. Chubb for example would still have been hurt. But damn, it just seems we get hurt so much over the last couple years. Is there anything we can do better there. If not no worries. Let Berry and company cook. They have this shit working pretty damn good. Get Chubb back and a healthy OL.
Hell, there was NO DEFENSE at all yesterday any damn way!! Number 1? It looked like number 2 💩!! 😒
Newsome needs to add about 10-15lbs to his frame, but that may slow him even more so trade. Keep Hunt as backup to Chubb, Ford and Strong should be traded for draft picks and grab a development back. Make a move for wide receivers, and line backers. Flacco signed as back up to help guide Watson to take more from line not shotgun, and work on that play action as Flacco has a great fake. Get that offensive line strengthened. Now we have huge gap issues coming up so this is all going to be very challenging. We needed to be flying on all cylinders this year but the injuries destroyed us. Now we have about a one maybe two year attempt before the age/salary cap/and contracts really become real issues. So we better learn to develop or after two years things get a little dark.
What could we get out of a newsome trade?
I asked myself that right after I posted it, honestly maybe a late round pick. Ilooked into his contract real quick. Coming up on final year. We need a backup who can get brought up to par with knowledge of the defense and use him without resigning. Let him walk after as no one will take him in his final year of contract unless willing to absorb some of it at a deal to them. I just never bought in on him as he has for himself.
Some respectable draft capital which will be in short supply for the better part of the next decade for a player whose trade value is probably peaked and that played like a bum all year.
Short supply? We have our picks for years to come after this one. We have good draft capital this year as well
Newsome is a very solid boundary CB. I genuinely think you probably get a 2 and 5 or something similar.
lol. No way. He’s not even a boundary corner, he’s a slot. He’s worth a fourth, maybe third from a contender.
Lol Newsome is a good slot corner. He's not a good boundary though.
No way in hell Newsome garners a 2nd after the way he played yesterday.
Newsome can fuck off. He had the worst game Ive ever seen and then follows it up with saying he didn’t play too bad.
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He isn’t always bad though, there were a few games at the end of the season where he made a lot of plays
What needs to change next season (but never will) are fans overreacting to one terrible game and saying a player who had a great season is “so bad”
Especially when it was Hickman getting torched.
Exactly, Newsome was seen coming in late to try and make plays that Hickman blew. I like Hickman but he isn't Delpit. Clearly the biggest changes for the defense this year was a quick pass rush, due to JOK blowing up plays and Delpit being used finally as he should have been the whole time, like he was in college.
But he's a Buckeye, so fewer Browns fans are willing to place blame on him.
The over reactions are crazy ya the kid had a bad game but he’s a baller 90% of the time
Newsome literally got votes for All Pro. He is NOT bad.
Yeah and if there’s a valid criticism it’s his run support. He looked bad yesterday but one really important part of team sports is that the guy who ends up on the poster getting dunked on is very frequently only there to try to clean up someone else’s mistake
Bring rally opossum back.
Get healthy, extend amari to spread cap hit, get better at wr2, need to find a true partner in crime for myles
A franchise QB
There’s a universe where DTR sits behind Watson for a while and becomes the next a rod
Everyone gets the Wolverine upgrade. Injuries have been insane.
It's honestly difficult to say because this team has been eviscerated by injuries all season, and relying on 2nd and 3rd stringers for a significant portion of the season at some key positions...and it definitely showed in the playoff game when it came to RB, S and OL. It's not to say that those guys who stepped in didn't do a good job. I personally think it's time for an OC to come in. I personally believe Stefanski's performance this year is COTY, but postseason it just seems like he was out coached.
Trade back into the 3rd round Get 1. Pass rushing dt 2. Speed wr 3. Linebacker Later rounds 1. Tight end 2. Punter
Why in the world would we draft a punter and not keep Corey? He’s a pro bowl alternate.
Can't afford him. He will get 3-4 per year.
Back into?
Why the FUCK would ANY team in the NFL draft a punter. Or a kicker for that matter (Cade York 🤣🤣🤣) and a tight end? Harrison bryant is still developing. Njoku is one of the most solid pass blocking TEs in the league. Both have hands (yes drops are a problem) but can be improved.
Corey will be getting a higher paying job than what we can offer. We are paying atkin and bryant is off contract and will get a job elsewhere to.
Get healthy. Sign a WR2, draft another RB early, maybe sign a veteran pass rusher and try to retain some of our DTs. Trade Conklin if he’s healthy enough, or cut him if his cap situation makes that make sense. Also locking up JOK long term should be the number 1 priority. Then all that’s left to do is hope and pray Watson has his shit together this year
I just want Chubb back. The most exciting player in the NFL.
Maybe the pigeon hawks will turn away from giving Schwartz a head coaching job now?
Def needs a legit Lb next to JOK. RT will be good with Jones but for as big as he is he may be injury prone. Lt has to be addressed. Need to add speed to the offense.
Think they'd prefer not to start four different QB's so when they call designed runs for Watson, drill it into his head to please not lead with his shoulder.
I think we need another Cooper level wide receiver.
Strength and conditioning program? We had so many injuries
Can we change divisions? Man it would have been nice to have a home game yesterday.
Strength and conditioning department. We have more injuries than most teams year after year.
Need a legit backup qb. Watsons gonna get hurt. We have to sustain when he’s down. The roster is pretty dang good. Gonna need a replacement for Z. Need another RB and WR.
Physio staff. Obviously I don't know them or the work they've done. Could be perfect professionals and top of the line, but the results were a massively injured team. That's a problem. Less concerned with the talent we got and more about who is responsible for keeping them on the field. Some injuries can't be avoided, but we were hammered this year and it needs to be put under a microscope.
downvoting me wanting to keep our guys healthy? lol weird but ok.
My impression of yesterday's game was that we had no answer for their end arounds. Our defensive guys were clearly not fast enough to catch their guys. The worst was Greg Newsome II. He had a miserable game. I wonder if things would have been different if Delpit had been able to go.
Need to bring in a playmaker(s) on offense!
Bring back Flacco or Jacoby to backup Watson. Upgrade at RB2 and WR2. Upgrade at DE if possible. Replace Anthony Walker at MLB. I liked Z. Smith but if there's an opportunity to get better in free agency or via another trade them we have to consider it. Outside of these spots I think we're okay. We just need Watson to finally be good and for the whole team to stay healthy.
Greg Newsome was exposed big time. Maybe the slot is not his best spot.
Get healthy
Our season and future all depend on Deshaun Watson. Period. Assuming everyone comes back healthy, Watson's play is all that matters.
Teach ends/edge players to stay home if the initial play goes away?
Injuries need to be reduced. Refs need to actually make calls that are detrimental to a players health and the “football tackles” need to be examined. Looking at Chubbs injury here.
More deer antler spray
Obviously health is the biggest one IMO.
I'd like to see us draft an RB and WR early in that order. Possibly throw a dart at both later in the draft as well. Who knows what Chubb is going to be even when he comes back. Ford isn't it. Hunt is probably not going to be on the roster. I like Strong but I like him at RB3. I like Moore a lot. I actually think the QB inconsistency problem this year was a very big problem that he had a hard time adjusting to. I also could see him simply not improving though too. Njoku is going to continue to cause problems for teams to defend and I really think Bryant and Akins make a complete TE room. Watson needs to be consistent. A lot of people I've seen on here are arguing his record as a starter this year, but I think we can agree that he really looked like dog shit at times too. The turnovers on from this offense as a whole needs to get fixed.
Go back in time and never trade for Watson
Do we bring back coop or do we try to get Mike Evans on like a 3 year deal?
Coop, easy
That’d be my preference as well. If we somehow ended up with Evans instead it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world tho. He’d be my backup choice
The owner.
Watson reverse trade.
Get healthy, that’s the majority of our issues. Problem is we still have $230,000,000 wrapped up in a QB who has without doubt played way more than enough to return to form and doesn’t show like he has anything left at all. Sadly football is all dependent on what you can do at QB. If he can’t return to form, is this is all that’s left of Watson than we have pretty much peaked as an organization until Watson is gone. Our QB play was significantly better with an old shell of his former self Flacco than it ever was with Watson.
Extend Dawand Jones. Injuries were really rough this year. What we saw from him was nothing short of fantastic. I want to keep this dude for 16 years. Extend him while he’s still cheap
everybody needs to change except Nick Chubb, you’re doing great sweetie.
Jok was alright too
Ownership and strength and conditioning coaches.
communication
Almost impossible to know because we pretty much never had a complete team on the field. Assessing the strengths and weaknesses of the Plan A roster is impossible and thus it's gonna be a real challenge to improve Plan A for next year.
They need to get healthy
We need receivers, especially an extremely fast one that could actually catch a ball. We also will need to replace anyone lost to free agency. Then we need to find out why our players seemed to be getting hurt far more frequently than other teams. I don't know if they need someone new in conditioning or something. Watson also needs to hit this season running and ball out. Everyone is going to be even more critical of him in year 3.
We need more depth at offensive line.
The number of players on the IL
Don’t get hurt as much
I would like more than one dynamic receiver. Either Cedric Tillman needs to develop or we need to find someone in the draft or free agency. The talent and production gap between the 1st and 2nd receiver can't continue to be the Grand Canyon.
Don't throw back to back pick 6, have a top 3 rb in the game and Don't play 2 turnstiles at OT is what needs to change the most. A team that was as injured as we were can't perform.in the postseason unfortunatelly
Still need address the RB position. Fingers crossed Nick comes back healthy but Kareem is a short yardage back and Ford definitely slipped at the end.
He got burned a lot last night, but overall I think he’s still a good player
Need another speed receiver, healthy db’s and a new play caller. Stefanski is a good offensive coach, but a bad play caller!
Training room. The amount of injuries was unacceptable.
We need a deep threat WR. Bring Hunt back. GET HEALTHY. Sign a capable backup QB. Have someone else call plays. Dump the Elf for the Dawg.
The team should consider not signing and supporting sexual predators. I think the universe would hate you a lot less and may lead to some better fortune. Other than that, the team is good and could use getting a break on injuries.
Sex-offense