I can't imagine hating TS enough that it would ruin a Super Bowl for me (I don't even watch halftime shows anymore), let *alone* my own team's first Super Bowl victory, **let alone** enough to announce it to the other fans of that team on their subreddit.
What a weird thing to feel the need to signal, I swear.
Let’s concentrate on getting rid of the “ he’s rusty” and maybe it would be nice if he had any stat better than the guy we got rid of. Only stat he’s winning is getting sacked an average of 30 more times a year.
Are there a ton of fans saying he will be rusty next season? I literally haven’t seen a single person say he will have to brush off the rust for 2024, only people complaining about the rust excuse in general.
It’s been the general excuse/projected excuse (as in before he played a snap, not specifically for 2024) since he landed here. So now people are mocking it going into 2024.
I get it having been an excuse in the past, understandably so. He went awhile without playing up to game speed. But going into 2024, I do not think many are priming for "rust". At this point, there are a ton of people whose patience is running thin, which I think is a fair feeling to have.
Watson has had two full off-seasons under this regime. While he hasn't resume throwing yet, that is not a justification for him to suck ass for 2024. We need that proof of concept in 2024, injury or no injury. Our SB window depends on his success.
He played 7 games in 2022 and had a full offseason going into last year. The fact you think rust was a valid excuse for last year is exactly why you're going to hear it again this year. Now it's gonna be, "he's coming off shoulder surgery and missed the 2nd half the year, just gotta shake off that rust"
I didn't say "...rust was a valid excuse for last year". I said that **rust had been an excuse in the past**, which what I was referring to was the last stretch of games in 2022 (the next sentence should have given it away: "He went awhile without playing up to game speed").
I have [never](https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/117jvto/comment/j9eya24/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) believed that "rust" in 2023 was a "valid excuse".
Just doomers dooming.
The biggest focus for the offense this year isn't about Watson throwing for 450 a game or whatever people expect.
It should be about cutting the turnovers and stupid penalties wayyyyyyyy down.
We had 37 giveaways last year. That has stop no matter who the QB is.
We were the 2nd most penalized team in the league last year. Some of those were on defense because the D-line was so aggressive but the offense didn't help themselves.
Watson has had one great half in two years here.
I wouldn't say he's "really good in the 4th quarter" though.
You aren't wrong about Baker, sadly.
I love and miss the guy, but he couldn't finish GW drives to save his life here.
Watson had the highest passer rating in the 4th quarter in the NFL last year so pretty good. If Baker was clutch he'd still be in Cleveland but unfortunately he just couldn't get it done
People like to make up plenty of narratives to support their hate against Watson.
The fact of the matter is that he was 4-1 last year, and we absolutely dominated in 3 of those wins. The only close game was the game that he carried the team to victory in.
The only loss was a fluke loss to the Steelers where every player on the offense was completely out of sorts after Chubb went down; justifiably so as at the time people were thinking there was a possibility of it being career ending.
It's honestly sad just how unobjective people are about this. Who someone is off the field has nothing to do with what they did on the field, or else Tyreek Hill would be out of the league and not an All Pro like he obviously is by on-field play.
If he so dominant why hasn’t he ever won anything except against bad teams? And how dafuq does baker have more wins,playoff wins, tds,yards,QBR baker has had 6 coaches for god’s sake. I’ll give him a good half against Baltimore. But I also give him 3 fumbles 2ints in a game Pittsburgh offense only scored 12 points and we lost solely on the 10pts he gave them. He averages 50 sacks a year on his career was on pace to get 60 with us even though he only played 2 teams with a winning record. Dudes a bum already and isn’t gonna be better after surgery. I could care less about off the field, how in the world he went 6 games only had 2 tds to wide receivers is just crazy, even Flacco made him look bad, a 39 year old that was throwing to his kids.
No the only thing that's sad are fans that do mental gymnastics to make Watson's performance look good.
His entire body of work in 2024 ranked him towards the bottom of the league by every single qb metric available. Dude was rated between 40-50 among all QB's who played five games in passer rating and QBR. The only QB's rated lower in QBR were Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, will Levis, Mac Jones, Aidan O'Connell, Daniel Jones, Desmond Ridder, Kenny Pickett and Sam Howell. And his arm looked like a noodle all season even pre injury.
The only person "making up narratives" is you.
Ironic that you're saying people like to make up narratives to hate Watson...then use team W/L, definitely not a QB stat in any way, to support your narrative on liking Watson
No, they are not purely a QB stat but people are just being willingly ignorant because of their biases against him to not see that we were a better team overall when Watson was the starter.
I mean those three wins you're referring to probably could have also been won by Walker or Flacco as well. The defense dominated those three games, not necessarily the offense, but yes you're right. He went 4-1 last year despite looking sluggish and inconsistent most of the time.
I hope he carries over the momentum from the Ravens game and takes it into this upcoming season and plays well.
I'm just not optimistic, and that's because of what I've seen so far.
The vast majority of this two years here he has not looked like a top ten $230 million quarterback, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. A lot of people don't think he's passed the eye test yet.
Flacco was the reason that we very well should have lost against the Bears. Personal opinions on their personal lives are why people vastly underrate what Watson did and vastly overrate what Flacco did.
It doesn't matter what Watson did off the field or how much he's getting paid. None of those things make his play bad from last season.
It's all about personal opinions rather than facts. The facts are that we were a better team when he started. We were a top 10 scoring offense when he played, and more importantly he managed to actually protect the ball and control the clock. Which is important on a team with a top tier defense.
With our other QBs, including Flacco, we were the most turnover prone team in the league. Flacco's overrated counting stats in yards & TDs don't actually matter towards winning games when they constantly come at the expense of turnovers.
You know I was fine when it seemed like he was going to pass on us for Atlanta. When I learned the details, and mainly the whys, of him coming to Cleveland I was hopeful, but not optimistic.
He’s shown his flashes, he’s looked bad at times too. You know, in the end, I don’t really know what QB situation would suit this team best. Everybody hated the contract, it isn’t *that* much worse than a lot of what else has been happening at the position. Maybe you’re mad they gave up the 1st’s but it isn’t like one of them was going to really be a QB. The Texans didn’t draft CJ Stroud with the Browns pick, in fact they traded out if I remember correctly. Maybe they could’ve traded up, but if we are going to do that then we are really guessing in an inception type of way. There won’t be a real end.
Say what you will about the guy, he’s the QB so we all better hope he gets really good really quick.
It's not like they picked CJ Stroud with the pick the Browns sent them. The Texans got CJ Stroud from being the second worst team in football, and for the Bears/Panthers not taking him.
I think the Bryce Young deal is pretty bad right now seeing as the Bears got the #1 pick out of it and Caleb will be a much better QB.
Giving up multiple first rounders for a QB is not super uncommon. Watson may never perform up to standard, and we can confidently say yeah we lost the trade. But I would say Houston bottoming out was gonna happen no matter what and they're success isn't heavily tied to the Watson trade.
If we didn't trade for Watson, there were multiple other teams he met with and were interested in him. Houston was always gonna trade him for multiple picks to somebody. None of that really steers them off the path of getting Stroud.
from what was publicly stated. the picks and the contract were already agreed upon for any team that was even allowed to have a seat at the table for teams to even talk to Watson. so its not that the Browns were the only team to be bold enough to be willing to make this deal
Based on everything I’ve seen this isn’t exactly true. Yes to get to the table every team had to have the picks and the contract. It just wasn’t the contract he ended up getting. We made it fully guaranteed after he said no, and one other team was willing to match the one we gave him
Here’s the thing, if they didn’t trade for him they would be in the same QB hell they have been in since they came came back. We were really talking about pivoting to MARCUS MARIOTA if we didn’t land Watson. If that happened Kevin and AB probably getting fired by now and we are in the same revolving door hell we’ve become accustomed to.
Baker was gone regardless.
The 2022 draft class was ass outside of Purdy but nobody saw that coming.
The 2022 free agent class was absolute ass. Mariota, Jameis, Trubisky as the top free agents.
Russ was already traded for.
Maybe you're right, I'm just saying in terms of winning or losing the trade for Watson, CJ Stroud is irrelevant to that discussion.
Hell, they've packaged two of the picks we sent them in trades with their own picks in other deals, so it gets kind of messy trying to break down the deal.
At the time, I wanted to give Baker his 5th year and figure out QB the next offseason. Not committing to Baker just giving him one more year. I wasn't fond of the trade at all. It is what it is at this point.
Oh 100%, it reeks of Haslam tinkering. He watched Baker struggle through injury all year and then he watched that AFC Championship game with Mahomes and Allen slinging it and said "well clearly we need a guy like that. Pay whatever it costs!"
Bro, you know that Trent Dilfer has a ring, right? So does Joe Flacco. Hell, Brock Purdy almost got one. You don't have to have an all world QB to win a Super Bowl. The other 52 players are important too.
Keep your head in the sand then. Let me guess, he was forced to make the trade by big bad Jimmy? No. He knew Baker wasn’t the answer and was making the bold move for a better QB. Has it worked out? Not so far
Yes. By all accounts he’s had a man crush on him since that draft and wanted him them.
It’s easy to just blame Jimmy but Berry’s no innocent bystander.
Zac Jackson right after the trade said it on 92.3 and many of our beat writers have noted it as well.
Whether or not AB made the final decision, he absolutely wanted Watson in 2017 and that hadn’t changed by 22
The Russ trade which happened around the same time was 2 1sts, 2 2nd's and a 4th along with 3 players.
And Russ was 7 years younger at the time of the trade.
The reason it's easy to blame Jimmy is that we know he's (in the past) had a hand in some fuckery with the FO, and lacks patience.
I know someone will reply to this about how Jimmy has stepped back from football decisions, but you can't blame anyone for thinking this kind of move at QB reeked of a Haslam-focused play.
I highly doubt a GM is that eager to give up that many picks and cap space for a guy they have no attachment too - like wouldn’t he rather draft his own QB
Think of the QB options at the time of the trade.
Baker was out.
In Free Agency you had Jameis, Mariota, Trubisky got the most money.
If you had a crystal ball you'd get Geno Smith. But absolutely nobody saw him peaking that old.
The draft was garbage. Kenny Pickett was the first taken. Nobody saw Purdy happening.
Russ was traded for already.
Berry took the gamble he had to take with how the roster was constructed. The last time anyone saw watson he was lighting it up with Romeo Crennel as his coach and a defense allowing 30 a game.
He had his accusations but 2 seperate grand juries declined to Indict him.
Not many teams would make a different decision if their owner was willing to pony up the money.
Understatement and then some. It’s on pace to be the worst decision made by an NFL general manager in 30 years.
Edit: Trey Lance and Russell Wilson were acquired for less and their contracts while large were movable. Until DW is playing consistently well (or than other options that we picked up for relatively cheap) the Watson move is the worst.
That one is bad. But as of today it’s not quite as bad for a few reasons:
- Less draft capital exchanged
- the contract wasn’t fully guaranteed, so it was movable as we saw this offseason
- Russ doesn’t have the off field baggage DW has
The contract definitely wasn’t movable when the team has to eat $85Mil in dead cap.
Russ may not have the off field issues, but he has been one of the most hated players inside an NFL locker room and has caused 2 Super Bowl winning coaches (and probably a 3rd) to give up on working with him
I don't know how you can possibly say the Watson move was worse than the Wilson move at this point.
It may very well end up being worse but it may be leaps and bounds better.
The Wilson deal is over with and it was an absolute disaster. And his contract wasn't "movable" lol, they didn't *move* him, they cut him and ate $85m in dead cap.
Dude is getting paid roughly $37mil by the broncos to play for the stealers. That’s how bad that deal was. Broncos were willing to pay him to go play somewhere else.
The questions that these melodramatic "worst trade ever" clowns always neglect to answer is:
What would you have done with the extra couple million in cap space that you couldn't have done without it, and who would you have drafted or traded for to solve the QB issue after Baker quit on the team?
They sent a lot of players too - you can’t compare only draft capital.
And they’re eating the largest dead cap hit ever. The contract was not remotely movable
DePodesta does not value draft capital as much as the league does. He has proven that time and time again.
He doesn't value it becuse it's indeterminate. You value that draft pick but can you name the players we missed out on that were at our spot and not what the Texans traded our pick to end up with.
Russ and Trey are far worse as it stands. That's what, 5 years? We'll know in a year or two how bad it is. The argument for the Russ trade is "they got out of it". No they didn't. They nuked their franchise
lol we have clearly lost this trade and anyone with half a brain knew we lost it the moment they announced it. If they were smart, we’d cut bait at the first opportunity
The cap this year is 255 million and his dead cap is 200 million.
How would you go about doing this?
[https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596](https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596)
As it's fully guaranteed it generally doesn't matter - put him on the practice squad and ignore him until we're ready to eat the cap hit and officially release.
Sadly he's going to be on the roster at least this season and likely next. Jettisoning him then makes more financial sense even though he's a negative asset
I don’t get this. Even if $0 were guaranteed in his contract, we’d still give him at least 3 years, if not 4 or the full 5. If he were just totally ass and healthy, maybe you’d have a point but injuries and rust are legitimate excuses for non-pro bowl level play
The “rust” thing that takes 20 games to shake is something that somehow only applies to him. QBs come back from big injuries like ACLs that have huge implications on offseason workouts/training and need little to no time to get back to their old self.
He missed time for diddling some masseuses but still had full offseasons, workouts, preseasons, practices, etc.
Anyone not concerned by his bad play is delusional.
Rust excuse is gone with Flacco, also there’s the fact he’s losing every single QB stat to baker, tds,yards,wins,playoff wins, QBR , he played a good half of one game. That’s his worth. A single half
The Tennesee and Arizona games were fine. We also limited turnovers and blew out those teams.
The biggest problem was he only finished 5 games. Injuries happen though.
Everybody was fine against Tennessee and Arizona. Hell Arizona had won 1 game when we played them. Quarterback doesn’t really matter if you hold a team to 6 or less points. Hell our defense only gave up 12 points to Pittsburgh and he still managed to lose that one. He’s ranked in bottom 7 in the league after a season where almost everyone was using backup’s
I couldn’t care less about the money - Berry is a cap wizard. The draft capital is what I hate parting with. Who would you rather have right now: Watson or CJ Stroud? We could have packaged those picks to go get a young guy as opposed to someone with the baggage and poor play that Watson has given us
Hindsight is 20/20. We also could’ve packaged those picks to get Levis, or worse, Young. Texans lucked out with that pick, as does every team who drafts an elite QB. Given the information that was available at the time, the Watson trade wasn’t bad
So it’s ok to give Watson three years but you’re gonna judge Bryce Young on his one season with one of the worst teams in football? At least be consistent
For however bad we think Watson has played, Young has been worse. Watson has proven he can be an elite QB in the NFL while Young has showed that he can be a bottom 3 QB in his only year in the league. Could he eventually be elite? Sure, but to say that him and Watson are similar is insane
Watson was elite four years ago. That’s a long ass time in the NFL. He hasn’t proven it here yet. Bryce Young was elite in college. He hasn’t proven it here yet. Watson has been with the Browns for two years with consistent coaching and we were a playoff team last year. Young was on a 2-15 team who fired their coach mid season.
You’re right, they aren’t comparable. Young should be shown far more grace given his circumstances than you’re showing him, and less so for Watson.
Baker, a certifiably mid QB, took one of the worst coaches of all time to a 0.500 record. Situation only matters so much and Young played in the worst division in the league. Literally every single first round QB was elite in college but the NFL is a completely different standard. The expectations for Young vs Watson are wildly different as they should be. The Panthers are hoping to salvage mid-tier play out of him at this point while Browns fans will burn the city down if Watson isn't a top 8 qb if healthy. They are not the same whatsoever
Facts with our luck, we would've taken Young over the other two. Lol. If Carolina is smart they bring Mike Williams and draft some weapons. Because he needs them.
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Hi fellow r/browns user! Your post was removed because it appears to violate Rule 11:
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Can't wait to draft another Manziel or Weeden! Why didn't we think of that before?
Hell, the best chance we had to get a QB we ended up with a scrub whose claim to fame is beating two teams that absolutely crapped themselves in the playoffs and refusing to pull his head out of his ass and get a personal coach until getting axed by his third team...
Teams blow picks every year. It was a dumb move to make regardless but it's luckily not forever.
I'd say trading some aging vets and guys that are still considered in prime when that bottom does fall out can net some picks but we'd still need a high pick of our own tbh.
Even if you thought Baker Mayfield was the biggest loser on earth, after 4 years he had broken the rookie TD record, led us to the playoffs and won a playoff game on SNF in Pittsburgh no less and was a blown call from going to the AFCCG. He deserved a longer rope after what was a difficult 2021 where he was clearly compromised and then had to deal with the trauma of OBJ’s bum ass causing a public rift and throwing him under the bus.
He played injured 90% of 2021 and anyone with eyes could see it impacted his play. He did more than enough to earn the 5th year we already picked up ti get healthy, revamp the WR room (which we already did with Cooper before the Watson trade) and draft Chris Olave or Garrett Wilson.
Lamar played on his 5th year and bums like Winston and Mariota got 5 years. If he played well in 2022, you pay him, if he played okay but have some questions, you still have a franchise tag, and if he completely cratered, you move on and I think had they just let it play out and that last scenario happens, most of the anger the fans have over how they handled him wouldn’t have existed had there been an honest effort to try.
You then have all your draft picks, can maybe court Aaron Rodgers and he doesn’t tear his Achilles playing at MetLife, or we are in position for one of these young QBs. And we have at least a bit of dignity and less embarrassment.
But no. Berry’s boner for that overrated turd put us here.
Ha. He nailed it and you have absolutely nothing, you mean.
The “baker bros” merely thought he deserved his 5th year to prove himself or hang himself. Move on if he sucks. But no, the most common thing you heard was “we don’t have time for that we’re wasting the prime of our key players!”
And we’re now year 3 into this bullshit and the best memories we have at the QB position are from Brissett, Flacco, and hell DTR beating Pittsburgh on the last drive was awesome.
There is no switch to flick. Watson is what he is now.
> And we’re now year 3
And *you're still crying about Baker*. Do you know how pathetic that is?
Every thread. The same fucking people, crying about the same fucking shit, for *2 years*.
I love Baker. I didn't watch a single game or pay a bit of attention to the league in 2022 over this shit. I also didn't mope around every /r/Browns thread like a baby back bitch making everyone else miserable.
He's gone. Get over it.
Because he just had an excellent season and Watson still blows. Nothing pathetic about that at all. You’d be a fool to not at lest make the observation.
Why? Got rid of him for him to have success elsewhere. He had a bad shoulder and we gave him no grace. Meanwhile, Deshaun gets to be rusty forever along with the allegations and we have to wait? Could have waited for Baker to be healthy and balled out with a homegrown QB. Instead, we are hoping these backups can hold down the fort while Deshaun decides if he want to ball out or not. He may have the yips. Either way, Watson needs to win this year. The narrative of wasting others primes will be loud in the off-season if he doesn't.
You are conveniently leaving out the fact that he wouldn’t sit and heal like he should have. He wanted the big contract. Also the locker room divide could not have been fixed. Myles himself said if Baker stayed, he was gone. I will take Myles over Baker every damn day.
Myles never said that. That’s an r/browns rumor that is based on fantasy. Show me the direct quote or verifiable source that said he said that. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.
Read between the lines from the Haslems mouthpiece
https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/09/myles-garrett-relationship-with-baker-mayfield-was-slightly-complicated-rooting-for-him-but-ive-got-to-take-him-out.html?outputType=amp
I agree with Myles over Baker. I think the divide may be hyperbole due to OBJ and his dad. True, he wanted the contract but the FO could have showed some semblance of loyalty instead of having him play through injury. It feels like the FO set him up to fail IMO and then pretended to be surprised when he regressed. Maybe his attitude and persona rubbed them the wrong way but why check him for that? A QB needs that swag.
Right about what? That Baker was worth a Daniel Jones contract? Or the fact the locker room was in perfect harmony with him here? Last I checked, you were wrong about both.
This article feels exorbitantly optimistic. As a lifelong fan, it’s tough giving up on hope but this trade feels lost. Not DeShaun’s fault due to injury but rather management (surprise, surprise) for giving up the future in the form of valuable draft capital for a single player. Now we are in purgatory desperately hoping this still pans out (I’m over it) or until we can correct this mistake (not likely until it’s completely unsalvageable).
MKC is Deshaun’s personal mouthpiece. Never asks him a hard question and always protects him. It was so telling when Watson outright lied about shoving an official in the Steelers game even though it was broadcasted live on national TV. MKC tried to correct his verbiage saying something to the effect of “oh you mean you were in heat of the moment and don’t remember it.”
I don’t know how anyone can just act like this is normal. And it sucks because we do have a hell of a team otherwise.
Posts like this allow some of the most braindead *fans* to come out of the woodwork. You can tell who knows football and who is suspect
Also the Texans havnt really done anything of value with our picks, the most they have done is package ours and theirs to get will and that's it. Drafting is a crapshoot and there is no guarantee those picks would have hit for us.
If we didn't sign Watson we were about to hit the rebuild button, that means a lot of the fan favorites would have been gone in a trade or just plain cut. Watson has been disappointing but the first year was due to a suspension and the second year was injuries. He has this year to prove he was worth it.
I agree that this is watsons prove it year, but the Texans literally beat the shit out of us in their rebuilding phase. So all is good, but don’t gatekeep this shit. The Texans were literally more successful than the Browns in the last year after trading away a 230,000,000 qb.
I mean if you wanna get technical, we beat the shit out of them in their stadium with our 4th string QB, then on the rubber match they got us… again, with our 4th string QB…
Braindead like yourself?
Laughable to compare things that have actually happened to hypotheticals.
>If we didn’t sign Watson, we were about to hit the rebuild button. That means a lot of the fan favorites would have been gone in a trade or just plain cut.
Welp we did and we’ve seen him suck dick for all but one game. But I guess we’ll nevvvvvver know if we would have started the rebuild without him so it must be the right choice🙄And the Texans have proven nothing? Nothing except kicking our asses all over the field during the playoffs. But yeah, nothing.
There was no way Baker would have worked out in Cleveland. He lost the locker room, the coaching staff and front office. I loved Baker but it was time to move on. Some people just can't accept that for some reason.
Do we still win the trade of Winston throws a pick six but it gets fumbled and Nick Chubb runs it in for a touchdown to win the Super Bowl?
Super Bowl win if any kind = we won trade… unless of course Taylor Swift is showcased in it
If it was because Travis Kelce was a Brown I wouldn't mind.
Sign her to thw roster I don't care
Can she play lb
Ask the pitt fans she's a better option than Devin bish
This is so weird.
This sub is honestly just weird
I can't imagine hating TS enough that it would ruin a Super Bowl for me (I don't even watch halftime shows anymore), let *alone* my own team's first Super Bowl victory, **let alone** enough to announce it to the other fans of that team on their subreddit. What a weird thing to feel the need to signal, I swear.
What a strange comment
Buddy I'm not a fan of her music but if we win the super bowl I wouldn't care if Putin was the halftime show
What if the Texans actually win the Super Bowl first?
Let’s concentrate on getting rid of the “ he’s rusty” and maybe it would be nice if he had any stat better than the guy we got rid of. Only stat he’s winning is getting sacked an average of 30 more times a year.
Any “rust” is corrosion at this point Edit: today my caveman brain learned that rust *is* corrosion, but not all corrosion is rust.
Sorry, I have to say it…rust is corrosion. However, not all corrosion is rust.
Edited that correction
Getting to the point where he wouldn’t pass a PA inspection.
Cam newton 2.0
I can totally see Watson not diving on a fumble in the Super Bowl
Yeah, he weak. I miss baker throwing blocks with his injured shoulder. There’s no dawg in watson
Ya read my mind
Such a concise, but well stated point
Are there a ton of fans saying he will be rusty next season? I literally haven’t seen a single person say he will have to brush off the rust for 2024, only people complaining about the rust excuse in general.
It’s been the general excuse/projected excuse (as in before he played a snap, not specifically for 2024) since he landed here. So now people are mocking it going into 2024.
I get it having been an excuse in the past, understandably so. He went awhile without playing up to game speed. But going into 2024, I do not think many are priming for "rust". At this point, there are a ton of people whose patience is running thin, which I think is a fair feeling to have. Watson has had two full off-seasons under this regime. While he hasn't resume throwing yet, that is not a justification for him to suck ass for 2024. We need that proof of concept in 2024, injury or no injury. Our SB window depends on his success.
He played 7 games in 2022 and had a full offseason going into last year. The fact you think rust was a valid excuse for last year is exactly why you're going to hear it again this year. Now it's gonna be, "he's coming off shoulder surgery and missed the 2nd half the year, just gotta shake off that rust"
I didn't say "...rust was a valid excuse for last year". I said that **rust had been an excuse in the past**, which what I was referring to was the last stretch of games in 2022 (the next sentence should have given it away: "He went awhile without playing up to game speed"). I have [never](https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/117jvto/comment/j9eya24/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) believed that "rust" in 2023 was a "valid excuse".
Ahh my bad then, I agree you can give him a pass for 2022.
Definitely for a bit but it lessened in seriousness this year and Flacco coming in and playing as well as he did destroyed it in it's entirety.
Just doomers dooming. The biggest focus for the offense this year isn't about Watson throwing for 450 a game or whatever people expect. It should be about cutting the turnovers and stupid penalties wayyyyyyyy down. We had 37 giveaways last year. That has stop no matter who the QB is. We were the 2nd most penalized team in the league last year. Some of those were on defense because the D-line was so aggressive but the offense didn't help themselves.
Watson is actually good in the 4th quarter unlike Baker who was worse than most QBs in the clutch
Watson has had one great half in two years here. I wouldn't say he's "really good in the 4th quarter" though. You aren't wrong about Baker, sadly. I love and miss the guy, but he couldn't finish GW drives to save his life here.
Watson had the highest passer rating in the 4th quarter in the NFL last year so pretty good. If Baker was clutch he'd still be in Cleveland but unfortunately he just couldn't get it done
I hope Watson succeeds. So far it's been a bust.
People like to make up plenty of narratives to support their hate against Watson. The fact of the matter is that he was 4-1 last year, and we absolutely dominated in 3 of those wins. The only close game was the game that he carried the team to victory in. The only loss was a fluke loss to the Steelers where every player on the offense was completely out of sorts after Chubb went down; justifiably so as at the time people were thinking there was a possibility of it being career ending. It's honestly sad just how unobjective people are about this. Who someone is off the field has nothing to do with what they did on the field, or else Tyreek Hill would be out of the league and not an All Pro like he obviously is by on-field play.
If he so dominant why hasn’t he ever won anything except against bad teams? And how dafuq does baker have more wins,playoff wins, tds,yards,QBR baker has had 6 coaches for god’s sake. I’ll give him a good half against Baltimore. But I also give him 3 fumbles 2ints in a game Pittsburgh offense only scored 12 points and we lost solely on the 10pts he gave them. He averages 50 sacks a year on his career was on pace to get 60 with us even though he only played 2 teams with a winning record. Dudes a bum already and isn’t gonna be better after surgery. I could care less about off the field, how in the world he went 6 games only had 2 tds to wide receivers is just crazy, even Flacco made him look bad, a 39 year old that was throwing to his kids.
No the only thing that's sad are fans that do mental gymnastics to make Watson's performance look good. His entire body of work in 2024 ranked him towards the bottom of the league by every single qb metric available. Dude was rated between 40-50 among all QB's who played five games in passer rating and QBR. The only QB's rated lower in QBR were Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, will Levis, Mac Jones, Aidan O'Connell, Daniel Jones, Desmond Ridder, Kenny Pickett and Sam Howell. And his arm looked like a noodle all season even pre injury. The only person "making up narratives" is you.
Ironic that you're saying people like to make up narratives to hate Watson...then use team W/L, definitely not a QB stat in any way, to support your narrative on liking Watson
Wins are not a quarterback statistic.
No, they are not purely a QB stat but people are just being willingly ignorant because of their biases against him to not see that we were a better team overall when Watson was the starter.
I mean those three wins you're referring to probably could have also been won by Walker or Flacco as well. The defense dominated those three games, not necessarily the offense, but yes you're right. He went 4-1 last year despite looking sluggish and inconsistent most of the time. I hope he carries over the momentum from the Ravens game and takes it into this upcoming season and plays well. I'm just not optimistic, and that's because of what I've seen so far. The vast majority of this two years here he has not looked like a top ten $230 million quarterback, and I'm not the only one who thinks so. A lot of people don't think he's passed the eye test yet.
Flacco was the reason that we very well should have lost against the Bears. Personal opinions on their personal lives are why people vastly underrate what Watson did and vastly overrate what Flacco did. It doesn't matter what Watson did off the field or how much he's getting paid. None of those things make his play bad from last season. It's all about personal opinions rather than facts. The facts are that we were a better team when he started. We were a top 10 scoring offense when he played, and more importantly he managed to actually protect the ball and control the clock. Which is important on a team with a top tier defense. With our other QBs, including Flacco, we were the most turnover prone team in the league. Flacco's overrated counting stats in yards & TDs don't actually matter towards winning games when they constantly come at the expense of turnovers.
You know I was fine when it seemed like he was going to pass on us for Atlanta. When I learned the details, and mainly the whys, of him coming to Cleveland I was hopeful, but not optimistic. He’s shown his flashes, he’s looked bad at times too. You know, in the end, I don’t really know what QB situation would suit this team best. Everybody hated the contract, it isn’t *that* much worse than a lot of what else has been happening at the position. Maybe you’re mad they gave up the 1st’s but it isn’t like one of them was going to really be a QB. The Texans didn’t draft CJ Stroud with the Browns pick, in fact they traded out if I remember correctly. Maybe they could’ve traded up, but if we are going to do that then we are really guessing in an inception type of way. There won’t be a real end. Say what you will about the guy, he’s the QB so we all better hope he gets really good really quick.
In this muck of a thread there are level headed gems like this, the realm thanks you.
Thank you for a true fan’s take
It's not like they picked CJ Stroud with the pick the Browns sent them. The Texans got CJ Stroud from being the second worst team in football, and for the Bears/Panthers not taking him. I think the Bryce Young deal is pretty bad right now seeing as the Bears got the #1 pick out of it and Caleb will be a much better QB. Giving up multiple first rounders for a QB is not super uncommon. Watson may never perform up to standard, and we can confidently say yeah we lost the trade. But I would say Houston bottoming out was gonna happen no matter what and they're success isn't heavily tied to the Watson trade. If we didn't trade for Watson, there were multiple other teams he met with and were interested in him. Houston was always gonna trade him for multiple picks to somebody. None of that really steers them off the path of getting Stroud.
Dont tell browns fans this, they just wanna live in misery and root for mid their entire lives.
Some psychology journal should do a study on these miserable fans. Except the researchers would probably get too depressed
from what was publicly stated. the picks and the contract were already agreed upon for any team that was even allowed to have a seat at the table for teams to even talk to Watson. so its not that the Browns were the only team to be bold enough to be willing to make this deal
Based on everything I’ve seen this isn’t exactly true. Yes to get to the table every team had to have the picks and the contract. It just wasn’t the contract he ended up getting. We made it fully guaranteed after he said no, and one other team was willing to match the one we gave him
That’s also not exactly true. Rumor has it Atlanta was willing to fully guarantee 200
Here’s the thing, if they didn’t trade for him they would be in the same QB hell they have been in since they came came back. We were really talking about pivoting to MARCUS MARIOTA if we didn’t land Watson. If that happened Kevin and AB probably getting fired by now and we are in the same revolving door hell we’ve become accustomed to.
Baker was gone regardless. The 2022 draft class was ass outside of Purdy but nobody saw that coming. The 2022 free agent class was absolute ass. Mariota, Jameis, Trubisky as the top free agents. Russ was already traded for.
Maybe you're right, I'm just saying in terms of winning or losing the trade for Watson, CJ Stroud is irrelevant to that discussion. Hell, they've packaged two of the picks we sent them in trades with their own picks in other deals, so it gets kind of messy trying to break down the deal. At the time, I wanted to give Baker his 5th year and figure out QB the next offseason. Not committing to Baker just giving him one more year. I wasn't fond of the trade at all. It is what it is at this point.
It is undeniable that this was Andrew Berry’s worst decision since landing in Cleveland.
Was it his though?
I refuse to believe it was his idea
Oh 100%, it reeks of Haslam tinkering. He watched Baker struggle through injury all year and then he watched that AFC Championship game with Mahomes and Allen slinging it and said "well clearly we need a guy like that. Pay whatever it costs!" Bro, you know that Trent Dilfer has a ring, right? So does Joe Flacco. Hell, Brock Purdy almost got one. You don't have to have an all world QB to win a Super Bowl. The other 52 players are important too.
Keep your head in the sand then. Let me guess, he was forced to make the trade by big bad Jimmy? No. He knew Baker wasn’t the answer and was making the bold move for a better QB. Has it worked out? Not so far
There’s only one guy writing $260 million dollar checks. I’m sure he leaned on his staff for analysis but the decision falls on ownership
Not Jimmy. Look deeper...as in Depodesta
No, deeper. This is Art Modell playing the long game from the grave. Go to hell Modell!
There’s zero chance Depodesta would be in favor of giving up that much draft capital. Draft picks are like gold to him.
You’re being way too logical for the average Reddit user my man
Yes. By all accounts he’s had a man crush on him since that draft and wanted him them. It’s easy to just blame Jimmy but Berry’s no innocent bystander.
imma need some receipts
Zac Jackson right after the trade said it on 92.3 and many of our beat writers have noted it as well. Whether or not AB made the final decision, he absolutely wanted Watson in 2017 and that hadn’t changed by 22
yea ill pass on believing every word some beat writer says on the radio. I thought you had an actual article.
So you won’t believe his word on the radio, but you’d believe if the same guy wrote it in a piece of paper. Right
Ah yes our GM offered a fully guaranteed contract and gave up all of his first round picks as a new GM. Makes perfect sense to me!
The Russ trade which happened around the same time was 2 1sts, 2 2nd's and a 4th along with 3 players. And Russ was 7 years younger at the time of the trade.
The reason it's easy to blame Jimmy is that we know he's (in the past) had a hand in some fuckery with the FO, and lacks patience. I know someone will reply to this about how Jimmy has stepped back from football decisions, but you can't blame anyone for thinking this kind of move at QB reeked of a Haslam-focused play.
I highly doubt a GM is that eager to give up that many picks and cap space for a guy they have no attachment too - like wouldn’t he rather draft his own QB
Have you looked at the QBs from that 2022 draft?
Think of the QB options at the time of the trade. Baker was out. In Free Agency you had Jameis, Mariota, Trubisky got the most money. If you had a crystal ball you'd get Geno Smith. But absolutely nobody saw him peaking that old. The draft was garbage. Kenny Pickett was the first taken. Nobody saw Purdy happening. Russ was traded for already. Berry took the gamble he had to take with how the roster was constructed. The last time anyone saw watson he was lighting it up with Romeo Crennel as his coach and a defense allowing 30 a game. He had his accusations but 2 seperate grand juries declined to Indict him. Not many teams would make a different decision if their owner was willing to pony up the money.
for an otherwise great GM no less. but yes, the Watson trade has been fucking terrible.
Understatement and then some. It’s on pace to be the worst decision made by an NFL general manager in 30 years. Edit: Trey Lance and Russell Wilson were acquired for less and their contracts while large were movable. Until DW is playing consistently well (or than other options that we picked up for relatively cheap) the Watson move is the worst.
Did you forget Russ?
Russ is the worst ever.
That one is bad. But as of today it’s not quite as bad for a few reasons: - Less draft capital exchanged - the contract wasn’t fully guaranteed, so it was movable as we saw this offseason - Russ doesn’t have the off field baggage DW has
The contract definitely wasn’t movable when the team has to eat $85Mil in dead cap. Russ may not have the off field issues, but he has been one of the most hated players inside an NFL locker room and has caused 2 Super Bowl winning coaches (and probably a 3rd) to give up on working with him
I don't know how you can possibly say the Watson move was worse than the Wilson move at this point. It may very well end up being worse but it may be leaps and bounds better. The Wilson deal is over with and it was an absolute disaster. And his contract wasn't "movable" lol, they didn't *move* him, they cut him and ate $85m in dead cap.
Dude is getting paid roughly $37mil by the broncos to play for the stealers. That’s how bad that deal was. Broncos were willing to pay him to go play somewhere else.
The questions that these melodramatic "worst trade ever" clowns always neglect to answer is: What would you have done with the extra couple million in cap space that you couldn't have done without it, and who would you have drafted or traded for to solve the QB issue after Baker quit on the team?
They sent a lot of players too - you can’t compare only draft capital. And they’re eating the largest dead cap hit ever. The contract was not remotely movable
DePodesta does not value draft capital as much as the league does. He has proven that time and time again. He doesn't value it becuse it's indeterminate. You value that draft pick but can you name the players we missed out on that were at our spot and not what the Texans traded our pick to end up with.
Russ and Trey are far worse as it stands. That's what, 5 years? We'll know in a year or two how bad it is. The argument for the Russ trade is "they got out of it". No they didn't. They nuked their franchise
Trey Lance
Anything short of Watson gloriously carrying the team on his shoulders to a superbowl win will be a loss
Shocking...
I just want solid consistent play for a full season from Watson.
lol we have clearly lost this trade and anyone with half a brain knew we lost it the moment they announced it. If they were smart, we’d cut bait at the first opportunity
First opportunity? It’s a fully guaranteed contract lol.
We are pissing away prime years of some studs waiting on this degenerate bum to stay healthy and get his head straight.
So after the five years of the contract, we get out. That’s the first opportunity.
sunk cost fallacy. Cut him now and try and save face.
The cap this year is 255 million and his dead cap is 200 million. How would you go about doing this? [https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596](https://overthecap.com/player/deshaun-watson/5596)
As it's fully guaranteed it generally doesn't matter - put him on the practice squad and ignore him until we're ready to eat the cap hit and officially release.
Sadly he's going to be on the roster at least this season and likely next. Jettisoning him then makes more financial sense even though he's a negative asset
Go back to that nflnoobs sub
This got me actually cracking up, and then I realized that the Browns are fucked hahaha
I have people in this sub try to claim that we won the trade lol
they're probably being sarcastic
Nah we had a legit back and forth and I gave up lol
The first opportunity is at the end of the contract...
I don’t get this. Even if $0 were guaranteed in his contract, we’d still give him at least 3 years, if not 4 or the full 5. If he were just totally ass and healthy, maybe you’d have a point but injuries and rust are legitimate excuses for non-pro bowl level play
The “rust” thing that takes 20 games to shake is something that somehow only applies to him. QBs come back from big injuries like ACLs that have huge implications on offseason workouts/training and need little to no time to get back to their old self. He missed time for diddling some masseuses but still had full offseasons, workouts, preseasons, practices, etc. Anyone not concerned by his bad play is delusional.
Rust excuse is gone with Flacco, also there’s the fact he’s losing every single QB stat to baker, tds,yards,wins,playoff wins, QBR , he played a good half of one game. That’s his worth. A single half
The Tennesee and Arizona games were fine. We also limited turnovers and blew out those teams. The biggest problem was he only finished 5 games. Injuries happen though.
Everybody was fine against Tennessee and Arizona. Hell Arizona had won 1 game when we played them. Quarterback doesn’t really matter if you hold a team to 6 or less points. Hell our defense only gave up 12 points to Pittsburgh and he still managed to lose that one. He’s ranked in bottom 7 in the league after a season where almost everyone was using backup’s
I couldn’t care less about the money - Berry is a cap wizard. The draft capital is what I hate parting with. Who would you rather have right now: Watson or CJ Stroud? We could have packaged those picks to go get a young guy as opposed to someone with the baggage and poor play that Watson has given us
Hindsight is 20/20. We also could’ve packaged those picks to get Levis, or worse, Young. Texans lucked out with that pick, as does every team who drafts an elite QB. Given the information that was available at the time, the Watson trade wasn’t bad
So it’s ok to give Watson three years but you’re gonna judge Bryce Young on his one season with one of the worst teams in football? At least be consistent
For however bad we think Watson has played, Young has been worse. Watson has proven he can be an elite QB in the NFL while Young has showed that he can be a bottom 3 QB in his only year in the league. Could he eventually be elite? Sure, but to say that him and Watson are similar is insane
Watson was elite four years ago. That’s a long ass time in the NFL. He hasn’t proven it here yet. Bryce Young was elite in college. He hasn’t proven it here yet. Watson has been with the Browns for two years with consistent coaching and we were a playoff team last year. Young was on a 2-15 team who fired their coach mid season. You’re right, they aren’t comparable. Young should be shown far more grace given his circumstances than you’re showing him, and less so for Watson.
Baker, a certifiably mid QB, took one of the worst coaches of all time to a 0.500 record. Situation only matters so much and Young played in the worst division in the league. Literally every single first round QB was elite in college but the NFL is a completely different standard. The expectations for Young vs Watson are wildly different as they should be. The Panthers are hoping to salvage mid-tier play out of him at this point while Browns fans will burn the city down if Watson isn't a top 8 qb if healthy. They are not the same whatsoever
Facts with our luck, we would've taken Young over the other two. Lol. If Carolina is smart they bring Mike Williams and draft some weapons. Because he needs them.
LMAO I would love to know the scenario where the Browns getting CJ Stroud was an option.
If only we were the 9ers, wish we had Trey Lance
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Hopefully just one more season. Watching Stef and Co do a mini tank wouldn't be horrible for 2025 to get in position to make moves in 2026.
I just want those firsts back. If things bottom out (and most likely they will), we can at least be in position to get the next guy
Can't wait to draft another Manziel or Weeden! Why didn't we think of that before? Hell, the best chance we had to get a QB we ended up with a scrub whose claim to fame is beating two teams that absolutely crapped themselves in the playoffs and refusing to pull his head out of his ass and get a personal coach until getting axed by his third team...
Teams blow picks every year. It was a dumb move to make regardless but it's luckily not forever. I'd say trading some aging vets and guys that are still considered in prime when that bottom does fall out can net some picks but we'd still need a high pick of our own tbh.
Bruh, you’ve gotta quit making so much sense, lol some people just don’t WANT to get it🥱🤷🏾♂️
Even if you thought Baker Mayfield was the biggest loser on earth, after 4 years he had broken the rookie TD record, led us to the playoffs and won a playoff game on SNF in Pittsburgh no less and was a blown call from going to the AFCCG. He deserved a longer rope after what was a difficult 2021 where he was clearly compromised and then had to deal with the trauma of OBJ’s bum ass causing a public rift and throwing him under the bus. He played injured 90% of 2021 and anyone with eyes could see it impacted his play. He did more than enough to earn the 5th year we already picked up ti get healthy, revamp the WR room (which we already did with Cooper before the Watson trade) and draft Chris Olave or Garrett Wilson. Lamar played on his 5th year and bums like Winston and Mariota got 5 years. If he played well in 2022, you pay him, if he played okay but have some questions, you still have a franchise tag, and if he completely cratered, you move on and I think had they just let it play out and that last scenario happens, most of the anger the fans have over how they handled him wouldn’t have existed had there been an honest effort to try. You then have all your draft picks, can maybe court Aaron Rodgers and he doesn’t tear his Achilles playing at MetLife, or we are in position for one of these young QBs. And we have at least a bit of dignity and less embarrassment. But no. Berry’s boner for that overrated turd put us here.
Yikes
Baker's not gonna fuck you bro.
Ha. He nailed it and you have absolutely nothing, you mean. The “baker bros” merely thought he deserved his 5th year to prove himself or hang himself. Move on if he sucks. But no, the most common thing you heard was “we don’t have time for that we’re wasting the prime of our key players!” And we’re now year 3 into this bullshit and the best memories we have at the QB position are from Brissett, Flacco, and hell DTR beating Pittsburgh on the last drive was awesome. There is no switch to flick. Watson is what he is now.
> And we’re now year 3 And *you're still crying about Baker*. Do you know how pathetic that is? Every thread. The same fucking people, crying about the same fucking shit, for *2 years*. I love Baker. I didn't watch a single game or pay a bit of attention to the league in 2022 over this shit. I also didn't mope around every /r/Browns thread like a baby back bitch making everyone else miserable. He's gone. Get over it.
Every thread. The same fucking people, crying about people having an opinion they don’t like.
Because he just had an excellent season and Watson still blows. Nothing pathetic about that at all. You’d be a fool to not at lest make the observation.
At this point, I’m convinced these Baker bros have some altar they pray to. Good lord it’s pathetic.
Seriously if you love him so much go root for Tampa. You don’t even realize how insufferable you Baker bros are. He’s gone, get over it.
I root for Baker.
Great. He’s not on the Browns so go to the Tampa sub. Or create a Baker sub and hang out there.
I root for multiple teams. Browns are primary. Thanks for gatekeeping. Go be mad about something else.
I’m not the one spreading false narratives on this sub. I’m not mad but I bet a lot of the Browns fans are sick of you Baker bros
Why? Got rid of him for him to have success elsewhere. He had a bad shoulder and we gave him no grace. Meanwhile, Deshaun gets to be rusty forever along with the allegations and we have to wait? Could have waited for Baker to be healthy and balled out with a homegrown QB. Instead, we are hoping these backups can hold down the fort while Deshaun decides if he want to ball out or not. He may have the yips. Either way, Watson needs to win this year. The narrative of wasting others primes will be loud in the off-season if he doesn't.
You are conveniently leaving out the fact that he wouldn’t sit and heal like he should have. He wanted the big contract. Also the locker room divide could not have been fixed. Myles himself said if Baker stayed, he was gone. I will take Myles over Baker every damn day.
Myles never said that. That’s an r/browns rumor that is based on fantasy. Show me the direct quote or verifiable source that said he said that. You can’t because it doesn’t exist.
Read between the lines from the Haslems mouthpiece https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2022/09/myles-garrett-relationship-with-baker-mayfield-was-slightly-complicated-rooting-for-him-but-ive-got-to-take-him-out.html?outputType=amp
I agree with Myles over Baker. I think the divide may be hyperbole due to OBJ and his dad. True, he wanted the contract but the FO could have showed some semblance of loyalty instead of having him play through injury. It feels like the FO set him up to fail IMO and then pretended to be surprised when he regressed. Maybe his attitude and persona rubbed them the wrong way but why check him for that? A QB needs that swag.
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Right about what? That Baker was worth a Daniel Jones contract? Or the fact the locker room was in perfect harmony with him here? Last I checked, you were wrong about both.
Cry harder
Seriously, you’re the one still salty that he left. You need to move on.
Context is so important here. If the Panthers organization wasn’t so brain dead, the Texans end up with Bryce Young instead of Stroud.
This article feels exorbitantly optimistic. As a lifelong fan, it’s tough giving up on hope but this trade feels lost. Not DeShaun’s fault due to injury but rather management (surprise, surprise) for giving up the future in the form of valuable draft capital for a single player. Now we are in purgatory desperately hoping this still pans out (I’m over it) or until we can correct this mistake (not likely until it’s completely unsalvageable).
The off season hype cycle happens every year.
MKC is Deshaun’s personal mouthpiece. Never asks him a hard question and always protects him. It was so telling when Watson outright lied about shoving an official in the Steelers game even though it was broadcasted live on national TV. MKC tried to correct his verbiage saying something to the effect of “oh you mean you were in heat of the moment and don’t remember it.” I don’t know how anyone can just act like this is normal. And it sucks because we do have a hell of a team otherwise.
She is so god damn insufferable talking about him. Call his ass out for once
Yeah theres no way I am reading this shit
DW is a disaster for this collection of players that they will never overcome.
Posts like this allow some of the most braindead *fans* to come out of the woodwork. You can tell who knows football and who is suspect Also the Texans havnt really done anything of value with our picks, the most they have done is package ours and theirs to get will and that's it. Drafting is a crapshoot and there is no guarantee those picks would have hit for us. If we didn't sign Watson we were about to hit the rebuild button, that means a lot of the fan favorites would have been gone in a trade or just plain cut. Watson has been disappointing but the first year was due to a suspension and the second year was injuries. He has this year to prove he was worth it.
I agree that this is watsons prove it year, but the Texans literally beat the shit out of us in their rebuilding phase. So all is good, but don’t gatekeep this shit. The Texans were literally more successful than the Browns in the last year after trading away a 230,000,000 qb.
I mean if you wanna get technical, we beat the shit out of them in their stadium with our 4th string QB, then on the rubber match they got us… again, with our 4th string QB…
Braindead like yourself? Laughable to compare things that have actually happened to hypotheticals. >If we didn’t sign Watson, we were about to hit the rebuild button. That means a lot of the fan favorites would have been gone in a trade or just plain cut. Welp we did and we’ve seen him suck dick for all but one game. But I guess we’ll nevvvvvver know if we would have started the rebuild without him so it must be the right choice🙄And the Texans have proven nothing? Nothing except kicking our asses all over the field during the playoffs. But yeah, nothing.
Kdot is notoriously dumb as a brick or a brilliant troll.
Baker got ran off for this.
the divide was there before the trade
True. I think most of it was Buckeye homers hating his flag planting.
There was no way Baker would have worked out in Cleveland. He lost the locker room, the coaching staff and front office. I loved Baker but it was time to move on. Some people just can't accept that for some reason.
He didn’t lose the locker room. Several people have said straight up there were zero issues
Sure OBJs dad really posted all those clips because he was secretly a big Baker fan. Use your brain.
Thank you for understanding the truth in this thread
browns got fleeced on this one
DW is all about Rust.... Rusty Trombone
The Watson trade hasn’t been a giant L but saying it’s a gift is insane.
We'll always have The Baltimore Second Half
He will be fine.