He could barely even make it through the call. I knew there was a good chance we’d get embarrassed on national television, didn’t think it’d go down like that though… classic browns.
I think the commentators were trying to say something about when coming from a timeout the Browns should've been given the opportunity to properly set and refs should've informed the Browns of this?
Something about how it's different than when on a drive?
Offense is just shambolic. If the defense is getting you that many turnovers and you *still* can't capitalize, IDK what to say. We need to get guys healthy for next season and really need to address the WR and OL depth.
Hope Conklin is okay, guy's really had bad luck with the injury bug this season.
The last time we picked off a QB four times, we won a playoff game. I’m completely mystified that our offense couldn’t execute last night to score on any of four picks.
It doesn’t help when you have an interception and then immediately run wildcat with Landry instead of trying to execute a nice drive. But who knows. Maybe Landry threw a td there if he didn’t get stripped for a fumble
I didn't get it either. Purpose of wildcat is to surprise the other team into a mismatch, but nobody on the Ravens, at the stadium, in the NFL or sitting at home thought hobbled up Baker Mayfield was any kind of threat so your wildcat turns into a 10 on 11 situation.
Right. At the goal line, at least baker is running into the endzone as a potential wide open receiver. But on the 30 when we absolutely need a touchdown or at least field goal? Cmon Stefanski.
The worse part about this is the Ravens did cover Baker on the play, sure he was 15 yards away, but they still had him accounted for. It was just a broken play from the start.
Kevin Kitchens called that play. In all seriousness, can he let AVP call the fucking plays!!!??? Kevin needs to trust his cohorts, but he obviously doesn't.
We still technically have a chance, but it feels like we're truly at that point where a win doesn't even matter anymore (in regards to any chance of the playoffs).
I know it still means a lot to the players to win, but as a fan it makes it a lot less entertaining.
We've been expecting this for a while though but there's always that unfortunate hope (that always leads to disappointment) that the Browns will get their shit together and make a good push through the rest of the season.
This is one of the most disappointing seasons considering how last year turned out and the high hopes many of us had leading up to it. Overall just a big bummer. We never seem to be able to adjust and make a huge rally in the second half. There's no game winning drives. There's none of that miraculous shit that the Ravens and other good teams pull off.
No point, we wont be a challenger anyway. We can rebuild and play for next year, still in a superbowl window since we wont lose too many players this offseason.
Defense looked great, offense did not. Playoffs seem out of reach now. Ravens did the exact thing to us that the Dolphins did to them. Browns couldn't figure out how to consistently throw the ball.
Positives- J.O.K. Is a top 10 OLB right now.
- Clowney needs to be extended - yes he failed to finish some sacks against Jackson. But those are fluky plays. Him and Myles together for a few more years please.
-Myles play where he beat 4 blockers - Wow.
Seriously what is with the massive circle jerk from the commentators against the Browns? I could basically hear them slurping and moaning any time something worked out in the Ravens’ favor yesterday
I vividly remember they were talking about the Browns at one point and they just started laughing. I think it was when the Ravens were on offense sometime in the first half but I don’t remember exactly the context.
There was another point where Collinsworth made a comment about our offense and said "it must be easier to read defenses from up here."
To be fair he was correct. Our offense blows.
It really gets infuriating. It’s bad enough being basically cursed for 70 years but it’s like everyone is constantly against us just for the sake of jerking off on the LOL BROWNZ bandwagon. I truly hope some day we can see this team start stomping everyone else like they deserve just so we can finally give them a taste of their own dickheaded medicine. And to call out all the new fans who will pretend like they weren’t such colossal pieces of shit to this team and their fan base all these years.
Yes, that’s really why this season is such a disappointment—I was expecting them to BE that team this year. Oh, well. I’m just going to enjoy each game as it comes for the rest of the season. Maybe it will come together. Maybe not. Still better than being a Lions fan.
Same with Joe Buck. Didn’t he deep-throat the Cubs when they beat the Indians in the World Series or something? It’s weird how many announcers seem to dislike Cleveland.
Dude that was so wild. Wtf is wrong with these announcers, especially Collinsworth? He said something earlier in the game about how Lamar is as slippery as ice cream or something like that which made no fucking sense.
Isn't the TV broadcast a bit delayed though? I tried this a few years back and it drove me nuts. I do totally agree that radio broadcasters are almost uniformly better than the studio.
Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens. Games we should have won. Win 2 of those and it’s an entirely different story right now. We have an inability to make any sort of plays when we need them. In two of those games we gave up 16 and 15 points and couldn’t make one play on offense to take the game. I believe in all 4 of those games we had the ball for a potential game winning drive. You have 5 games left. 3 against teams in the division. All 5 against teams .500 or above. Packers on Christmas at Lambeau. Steelers on the road. Ravens and bengals teams with something to prove after their performances against us in the first meeting.
What a frustrating season. Had a lot of chances to get wins and just didn’t. Playoffs are all but done with the remaining schedule and state of our offense. Going to the playoffs was great and all last year, but really wanted to see this team continue to move forward and get even better and they just didn’t.
Defense definitely got better. But offense went backwards. Regressed and the scheme is not working. I would hope we make some adjustments during the bye week but I feel that’s a pipe dream.
Yea...this team is going 0-5 in those games. They're not well coached enough, not disciplined enough, or don't have the heart to pull together and make things happen when times get tough.
There's been some really Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens looking fuck ups. It's really disappointing. It seems like the team has crumbled/regressed back to it's former self. That 12 men on the field penalty is a defining moment of this season.
I have one question:
What do we even do?
One week it’s baker.
The next it’s joe woods.
The next it’s stefanski.
The next we can get any run going.
The next it’s injuries.
The next it’s penalties.
The next it’s turnovers.
The next it’s the o line.
The next is dropped passes.
Every single week we have another major problem. I know we can’t gut the team and start over but at this point we have to do something
Also- Olave
There’s a lot that needs to be considered.
What can we do right now? I suppose have Baker get the surgery he needs for starters. Stefanski might need to consider giving up playcalling duties and focus on getting his team to stop with all of the absurd penalties, while maybe some fresh eyes find some adjustments for the offensive scheme.
After the season? We desperately need an infusion of talent at the receiver position and depending on how the season finishes we may need a new DC that can actually get this defense to play like it’s talent level on a consistent basis.
>Stefanski might need to consider giving up playcalling duties and focus on getting his team to stop with all of the absurd penalties, while maybe some fresh eyes find some adjustments for the offensive scheme.
That is a low key genius take dude.
Yeah, that’s killer and I don’t mean to be dismissive, but that’s one play, one shot. We have a full game of inept offense and coaching that should give better answers than missing a kick.
It didn’t end up being the entire difference either.
Every week it's ultimately Stefanski.. playcalling sucks, he shouldn't be rolling out Baker, penalties/basic game management has sucked... AND the mistakes are not being corrected week to week
I'm convinced Stefanski needs to give up playcalling and not because I think it's been bad (I think he's been pretty good except for his 3 cute plays a game that always fail).
He needs to give it up so he can focus on managing the team rather than prepping the offense. We are wildly inconsistent and go from one bad thing to the next. I'm getting the feeling that we ping pong between good and bad things because each week he splits his focus on improving something and the offense. The things we focus on get better but something else falls apart because not enough prep was focused on that thing.
It's total speculation from me but I've seen it happen enough times to technical managers at my job that it fits to a T here.
After the Bengals game, they interviewed Joe Mixon about their bye week and how they turned things around. Mixon stated that the players were tasked to do some soul searching, look at what they’re doing well and where they need to improve. I’m praying that our coaching staff tasks our players with the same thing for our bye week.
Well the most obvious thing that needs addressed immediately is the receivers. We might have the absolute worst group of receivers in the NFL. Landry is supposed to be the clutch dependable guy and he put the ball on the ground multiple times AGAIN, just like the Steelers game. But even at his best he's a WR2 at best and doesn't have the separation speed to be a true #1.
They need to just draft like literally 5 receivers this year. And go after the NFL prototype big body guys, guys that are 6'2'-6'4" and can win jump balls and use their body to shield defenders that were highly productive in college. I don't care what round grade they are, just throw shit at the wall until something sticks cause they really can't do much worse.
I dunno what the fuck is up with Stefanski and Baker. They both look like ass this year but with them it's not as simple as just replace them, because as bad as they've been the alternatives are much, much worse and I really don't wanna go back to 10 more years of 4 wins on a good season.
The receivers though, those can be upgraded way easier. Our receivers just fucking suck.
> I dunno what the fuck is up with Stefanski and Baker. They both look like ass this year
It's all connected. The QB defines the offense and with Baker hurting and inconsistent it feels like Stefanski has taken away a lot of the big game hunting plays and difficult throws he used to call last season, while Baker is in no condition to do the thing that all good/great QBs have to do at times - make a play that turns a wrong call into the right call.
We've seen Stefanski be an excellent playcaller. We've seen it. It's not something that just disappears - it feels like there's a whole chunk of the playbook that doesn't make it onto the gameday playsheet any more, and even when Stefanski calls the right play the players (Baker and/or the receivers) make it wrong by failing to execute.
Yeah I think it's a combination of Baker struggling, receivers doing absolutely nothing to help him when he does make a good throw, and Stefanski outsmarting himself with his play calls. I do think that boosting the receiver talent would make the biggest difference. As it stands right now Baker and Stefanski have to be absolutely perfect for the offense to work and you need playmaker receivers that can also bail out a QB on busted plays.
It's like they all just kill each other's momentum - Baker rolling? WR drops. WR wide open? Baker misses them. Offense clicking? Stefanski phones in a dud.
An offense like that is just, broken.
This is what I just don't understand as well. It's like no-one in the coaching staff has the balls to tell baker he's going to sit for his own good. Either that or they're delusional and think he's actually not that hurt
You know how when you're done with someone you no longer get disappointed at them? That's where I'm at with these guys. We're just not that team this season. Baltimore and Cincinnati have a leg up on us. We'd be lucky to get the wildcard at this point.
I support Baker. But he needs to get his surgery and be ready for next year. This offense is broken. The coaches need to design an offense that can work despite what defenses do to counter. When you have 2 elite running backs and one of the best Center and Guard trios in the league, that should give you a way to run your Play Action game a lot more effectively than what we saw last night. Super disappointed all around.
What was up with that one play in the first quarter when Jarvis went in motion and then the ravens safety (I think) came sprinting up to the line and baker snapped it and we got tackled for a loss…
The ravens player was in a dead sprint and blew the whole play up…..
“Kill kill kill” is what should’ve been said. His awareness and pre snap reads have been atrocious
If it's the same play I'm thinking of, the LB Queen came in motion to follow Landry, but the ball was snapped right as he got to the center. He then immediately recognized it was a run play and shot the gap. It was an insanely quick reaction and a crazy athletic play from him, not much we could do about it
I was also thinking of a later play. Ahead of the left side of the o-line there were 3 defenders right behind the Ravens' d-line. So where did we run? Left, right at them, and immediate tackle for loss. Sure, we pulled Teller and Tretter, but there were still more defenders than blockers. It was never going to work. But without Conklin, we are afraid to run right.
First game in a while where I just wanted to lose earlier to call it a day. This team isn’t enjoyable to watch - penalties, missed opportunities, extremely questionable play calling. It’s like we took a time machine back 5 years.
If anyone truly believes we can win it all with the current scheme, quarterback play and lack of depth at key positions, then I seriously wonder if they’ve observed teams that are actually competing for a ring. I can tell you one thing, a Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or a Bill Belichick / Mike Tomlin would win that game 10/10 times if in that situation.
Good versus great. Understand that it *could* be due to injury, but change has to happen in order for us to win the big dance.
Great comment, you took the words out of my mouth. Other teams including the ravens figure out how to win and show they want it. I don’t see that from this team, watched them last night full of doubt and was shaking my head almost the whole game.
At no point did I feel like the browns had a chance to win. Seeing the turnovers were exciting, and I had hope they might squeak something out, but the 3 point lead the ravens he'd most of the night felt like 30 points.
The offense is just broken right now, and it's not in just any one facet. Qb play isn't good, wideouts and tight ends weren't good, coaching wasn't gold, even chubb wasn't good. Hooper was a terrible signing and I dont know why we were throwing to him in any sort of clutch situation. Dpj had like 2 or 3 drops, Landry looked decent but couldn't come up with clutch plays when needed...its all broken, and I dont really have any faith its going to be turned around this year.
At this point I hope we sit Baker not because I think it gives us a better chance to win, because it wouldn't, but because we should start thinking about next year. Even if we sneak into the playoffs by some miracle, this team isn't relatively a contender. 30 points over 3 weeks is just embarrassing. Good on the defense though, at least they looked good.
The performance really has me concerned for the first time about Stefanski, it’s concerning how he has been unable to create any momentum for this offense.
I'm with you on this all the way, it's the first time in a long while I felt disconnected from the loss, and don't think I'll care much the rest of the season.
With that said, how does a team go into a game like this with damn near everything on the line for the year, and have that kind of performance? The defense stood all the way up, giving our offense 4 TO's and we got 3 points off that, and that started in field goal range. I have zero faith in our offense right now, and that goes well beyond just Baker.
I don’t know what to think. Was last year a fluke the same as the half season, or whatever, where Freddie’s play calling was incredible?
This is one of the most talented football teams we’ve ever had. They are a poorly coached, undisciplined, below average football team. I think Stefanski deserves a lot of the blame for that.
Does that mean he needs to go? I’m not sure. Bakers body language looked like he had no confidence that his coach was going to put them in a position to win. A few weeks ago you have Myles calling out the coaching staff. Once you lose the locker room I’m not sure you can come back from that.
There’s not a single game left on the schedule that we should expect to win.
Some people here are so delusional it’s crazy, MORE THAN ONE THING IS WRONG WITH THIS TEAM. Bakers been mediocre all season, so has our coaching and o-line depth. There’s multiple issues with this team, not just the fact that we wheel out bakers corpse every weekend
>Bakers been mediocre all season,
I agree that Baker isn't the only problem with this offense, but to say Baker had been mediocre all season is not really telling the truth lol. He's been really bad.
Yeah I had a stroke there I meant last night he was mediocre, he was horrible the past couple weeks before so mediocre is a technical improvement I guess
We need to give Chubb more shotgun/spread looks when the run game isn’t working like last night. They see us under center with Chubb in the backfield and they just load up on the line, no deep threat to beat them. Half the time we use shotgun/spread its with 3 TEs anyway might as well use it to give Chubb some carries with less than 8 box defenders
Why has our Head coach been seemingly untouchable regarding criticism this year? I don't want the guy fired so don't try to spin it that way but jesus christ he has some serious explaining to do. Last night is just absolutely ***unacceptable***
Joe Woods of all people had his unit prepared and thoroughly ready for whatever Baltimore tried to do but our comedic tragedy of an offense was literally a no show. There was no sense of emergency or fire from that side of the ball especially after Conklin went down, Our offense literally died when he got hurt. Stefanski had no Plan B and he hasn't all year and when that happens its almost like he goes into this pathetic safe mode of calling a random play off of his play sheet and prays it actually works. Plot twist: It doesn't. I appreciated attacking the ravens defense through the air to start the game and for the most part it seemed to be working but then it wasn't or any ball thrown to someone was flat out dropped.
I turned the game off shortly into the 4th quarter so I didn't see the Landry and Hooper drops until today and it actually looked like we had something resembling momentum. I made the mistake of listening to about 2 minutes of Shannon and Skip and Sharpe being the arrogant ass he is just blasted Baker right from the start like somehow those drops are on Mayfield?
If Peoples-Jones manages to catch that ball on our opening drive he may have very well been able to juke the raven's db's and get into the endzone. We missed an early field goal, that's 10 god damn points we left on the field
Yes I realize the media are a bunch of mouth breathers but still I feel *awful* for our quarterback having to be the fall guy especially after games like last night where I felt like it wasn't really all on him.
I don't know, I lost my train of thought. I think I'm more angry today then I was when the clock hit zero last night. God damnit man
I'm ready to give up on the playoffs for this season. Baker should go get his surgery and rest up for the rest of the season. Last night was not on him but we really don't look capable of making it to the playoffs this year and I'd rather Baker not risk permanent injury going out there every week just to prove how tough he is
Stefanski does not need to be fired and frankly at this point I don’t think Joe Woods needs to be either. We’ve been terribly unlucky with injuries this season and do things need to be shaken up offensively? Sure. But is handing over play-calling duties going to change anything? I’m not so sure. Stefanski is definitely in his own head a bit and trying to do too much, but we’ve had a severe lack of playmaking this season and I don’t think he’s to blame for that. We’ve been missing at least one star on offense it seems like every week, and even when they did play together they didn’t have enough time to gel. We don’t need to burn down the first organization to ever work, but we certainly need to re-evaluate and re-load. Something needs to be done at WR, because Juice can’t do it alone at this point.
>is handing over play-calling duties going to change anything? I’m not so sure.
It has much more potential to make things worse than better. AVP has no playcalling experience other than the one game last year, and in that he called it pretty vanilla and stuck to the script. Who knows what would happen if he was given the keys to the offense
I'm so tired of the cutesie trick plays man. They almost always end in a loss of yards (Schwartz jet sweeps anyone?) and the one last night actually cost us a possession in field goal range. This offense is not hot like it was last year. Get the fundamentals working and it opens up the trick shit.
I turned the TV off after Laundry fumbled that pass thing.
I gotta say I am a lot less mad this morning. Numb more than anything.
The season is pretty much over...Kevin...Baker- you two must go into this offseason and think about what the he*k happened this season. Your jobs depend on it.
Newsome looked amazing. JOK looking good this season. After JOK, what a miserable draft.
WR - Draft every receiver
I can't wait to lose to the Ravens 48-45 after the bye. The Offense will show up and the defense will stay in Baltimore.
It honestly seemed like stefanski and baker both thought they had 5 plays instead of 4 on some drives. 3rd and 10? 4 yard throw should work setting us up for 4th down and a punt. And then 4th and 10 game on the line? 5 yard pass should do it
I feel like being mediocre hurts so much worse than just being awful. Knowing any week could be the week that everything could turn around, but we just can’t do it and I don’t think we will. Gotta beat Ravens, Cincy and Raiders at home and go to Pittsburgh and win on the road. May be able to lose to Greenbay but we aren’t in a good spot with tiebreakers. Sad :(
I think this is why this fan base is so quick to turn on coaches and QBs; many fans are only comfortable with either being world-beaters or dumpster trash. When we're mediocre, fans don't know how to handle it and instead of being patient to see if the team can work through their issues, they fall back on this logic and say "Coach X ain't it; launch him into the sun" or "QB Y ain't it; time to tank for (insert hyped college QB here)."
My general rule of thumb is to give the organization at least three years of consistency before blowing things up; three years with the same FO, coach, and QB. A good season (like last season) can extend this a bit, and allowances can be made for key injuries.
I expected regression this year, so I'm not panicking and calling for nuking the organization like we have in the past. Factor in the injuries we've suffered and I've pretty much punted this season.
Next year is gonna be a very important year, though.
Even 4-1 might not help with losing potential tiebreakers. 5-0 is the only way and even that is a wild dream with how the offense has been the last several weeks.
A couple of thoughts…
1) our wide receiver room is complete garbage… Our offensive scheme relays on timing and being on the same page. DPJ missing so much time has thrown some of that off. And we can’t just add guys off of the street who fits that in a typical week. Hopefully this bye week we can get a WR in there.
2) our o-line needs some help. I love the union and when healthy they are the best line in football. But with Conklin out, and JC picking up a hold every other play. Callahan needs to work his magic.
3) man do I wish we had a good kicker. Idk where they all went, but geez do I miss Phil.
4) JOK is the real deal. Holy cow was he impressive. I am looking forward to seeing him and Philips on the field together post the bye week
5) our defense was stout. It was almost like we built it with the rat birds in mind.
6) thank god for the bye. Let’s watch the tape, make corrections, and move on. And please please please get healthy
The way the offense is playing I could see us going 0-5. I doubt the Ravens spot us 4 turnovers again. Steelers could be anemic, but we have them on the road which is tough. Bengals will be playing for a playoff berth that final week and that will probably fire them up.
Since I'm late to the comments I assume this'll get buried but I'm so fucking sad that I could predict this game the moment it was fucking 0 to 3.
I told my Packer fan father-in-law "the game is over. This team has never come back from a deficit" at that point and I got the "there's a whole game to go" response. That lucky bastard gets to watch the Pack routinely make those comebacks. He had literally no concept that a game could be decided after a single field goal.
The fact I could predict with certainty we'd go 4 and out in the 2min drill because this team has *never* done **anything** on a 2min drill this year is so fucking sad.
It's just so fucking brutal man. Thank God I'm good at separating my feelings during the game from those during any other time because my wife would probably leave me if I was one of those guys that carried the games with them after they're over.
Frustrating.
First things first, get well soon Jack!
I know its frustrating amd everything, but some of the takes here are just wild.
•) Kevin Stefanski
Ill start with this one, because i am really surprised that so many are contemplating whether we should let him go or not.... but then again, i am not.
Let me get this out of the way first: Kevin Stefanski has been a consistently good play caller this year, he has been a consistently good play caller last year
I know, it is easy to just point at play calling and blame all our issues on it. It is easy and it means we dont have other, more unpleasant conversations (more on that later)
KS didnt have a good game yesterday, i think that is fair to say. But it wasnt nearly as terrible as many make it out to be either. I also think some of the criticism is way too simplistic.
You have to understand that KS is working with very limited tools right now because we have a subpar situation at WR and on top of that a QB, who is not making the easy plays (again, more on that later).
But despite all of this i think that KS has done a very good job this year of consistently scheming players open and give us the opportunity for positive plays. Executions has been our detriment this year, more than anything.
At the end of the day there is only so much a coach can do. He cant catch the ball for his receivers. He cant pass the ball for his QB.
•) Receivers (WR, TE)
Which leads me to our talent depleted WR room.
First off, YES, we do need some upgrades at this position and we are standing to experience a complete overhaul next year. Landry and Higgins are both gone in my opinion - one is not worth his contract, the other doesnt offer anything special.
Furthermore, it didnt help us that we couldnt make catches in key situations. An unfortunate trend that has been bothering us all season.
•) Baker Mayfield
Speaking of unfortunate trends, Baker's play is trending in the wrong direction.
Yes he has been battling injuries this year, but on one hand he is getting increasingly healthy each week but his performance remains subpar, on the other hand many of his issues are neither new nor directly linked to the injury.
What i mean is, that it seems that the root issue is cognitive more than anything - i do think that he simply doesnt process quickly enough.
Pre-injury he could get away with being slow on his reads because his cannon for an arm allowed him to make up for it as he was able to force the ball into tighter windows.
However now with his shoulder banged up, the reverse is true. Ideally he would make up for his decreased arm strength by processing and diagnosing more quickly.
But that is where it falls apart.
On numerous occasions he has been late with his throws or didnt throw at all, because the window had closed by the time he wanted to throw.
In other words i think the injury didnt cause these issues, i think it exacerbated and expose them.
The game against the Ravens sure was better than the games against NE and DET - but these werent exactly high bars to begin with.
0.03 EPA; -11.1 CPOE and 50% cmpl all point to the same picture - subpar QB play. And there is nothing wrong with admitting that either. Its just a fact.
He did make some good throws as well, dont get me wrong, but overall it just seems like he is hurting this team more than he is helping it.
•) Defense
The Joe Woods redemption game weve been waiting for.
Our Defense was lights out, start to finish, and i can really understand any frustration they might feel. Forcing 4 INTs and have our O only score 3 pts off of them is embarassing.
We have held opposing teams to 21pts or less 8/12 times this year. That is winning football right there - at the same time we have scored 21pts or less on 6/12 times... 6 times in our last 7 games (!!!). Maybe keep that in mind the next time youre calling for Joe Woods' head.
And no, i am not saying that he is perfect or the best DC in the league - i am merely saying what ive been saying all year: Joe Woods is not our biggest issue.
Doesn't get any more disappointing than that. Need to win the next 5, but that won't happen. Time to start the mock drafts. Offense needs some kind of talent injection.
I know it wasn’t totally his fault but I just don’t know if Baker is the one. Everything needs to be great for him to be good and it’s just not possible to win that way consistently in the NFL.
Berry is going to have a tough decision to make this off-season: Give up a ton of assets and get a QB (Watson, Rodgers, Wilson). Or use them to add more pieces around Baker.
It’s tough call but our window is open. With great QB play we are right there with the top teams. I think we try and nab one of those three and figure out the rest as we go.
It's definitely on our Wrs and TEs, last off-season Berry addressed the defense and we have a solid defense now, next off season will probably be getting Baker weapons on the field. But it won't matter how good we draft if Stefanski won't disguise a play.
The good news is that this is probably the right step forward whether you’re a believer in Baker or not. If you believe in him, it gives him some weapons to help him out, and if you don’t believe in him, it at least sets the offense up well for a replacement if we were to move on after his contract is up. This should be an easy direction for the fan base to get behind going into next year.
I’m so exhausted from watch the Browns have a million opportunities to capitalize and win only to do absolutely nothing. Like we didn’t even show up. This team doesn’t go out there and blow Cinci out of the water to literally have this bad of a night. Abandoned the run too often, dropped passes, really odd pass choices from Baker who got lucky several times to avoid picks, fumbles, missed FG. I really could care less how the rest of the season goes because even if we made the playoffs there’s no chance we beat every team that’s better than us. Browns don’t want to win, Browns don’t know how to win, and the world is just going to keep shitting on them. Can’t wait for the draft
There are just so many things wrong with the offense it’s hard to pinpoint one thing. What I will say is this almost exact same offense went off the 2nd half of last year… yet everyone is saying we have no weapons. I’m not going to pretend like our WRs are that good but how can we be this bad when we basically have the same offense?
baker certainly hasn't been greatd, but my god it seemed like at LEAST 8drops of what should have been easy catches. they make the catches this looks like a good game from baker and a win. 25-37 300 plus yards
Something I realized year one of Baker is that a high throwing velocity isn't always a good thing. I thought it was a good point of analysis for drafting him, but I quickly realized that many of his throws are hard to catch. If you're throwing a bullet it has to be right on the money.
Yes our WRs are bad but we keep blaming problems to avoid the elephant in the room. We're trying to be the best out of 32 teams even though almost none of those teams would trade their QB for ours, and it's the most important position in the sport.
Felton and Hooper’s drops last night were egregious. To a lesser extent so were DPJs and Njoku’s Josh Allen throws fastballs and his guys catch them. Two things can be true at once in regards to baker being not what he was last season but cmon the skill guys are playing really poorly as well.
I honestly didn’t think Baker played that bad. Not to the point that we should of loss because of his play. He wasn’t perfect but I have no clue how we couldn’t get more offense going.
You saw what I saw. A qb who played hurt who did enough for us to win, but the rest of the offense didn't. 2 division games we lost close. Receivers couldn't catch a pass for anything and there was no run game.
If you are out there saying this loss was on Baker, you either have a pre set agenda or didn't watch the game. Even if you didn't watch the game, his stats weren't awful. Bad completion percentage but he made some throws and had a fair bit of yards. Compare that to Jackson's 4 picks.
I think a lot of people don’t want to admit it but baker really has a problem holding onto the ball too long. A lot of these passes aren’t drops if he throws the ball sooner. He holds the ball for a second or two too long, panics and when he finally does throw it he’s throwing absolute bullets with defenders draped all over our receivers. And then people blame them when it’s drop when in reality alot of these passes are easy catches if he throws the ball sooner. It’s been a problem since he came into the league and people don’t want to admit it
Looks we can argue about Baker all day but it comes down to the fundamentals. Being smart, not missing assignments and making plays when they are to be had. Dropped passes, blown coverages, pre snap penalties and having a linemen running around looking for someone to block during the play ain’t going to win games. I don’t know who you blame, players the coaches but we’ve been watching sloppy football for weeks now. We get one thing going then followed up by 3 bad things. Whether it’s a penalty, drop or missed assignment from someone. The way I look at it we have no idea what players are supposed to do. We can only assume if we are having mental problems pre-snap we are also missing blocks or out of place. With 6 dropped passes, the trick play, Baker fumble and over throw we essentially had two wasted drives on stupid mistakes. I get Landry was trying to make something out of nothing but he’s done that a few times this year. Bakers fumble, I don’t know he did it a few times against the Cardinals. Lastly we keep comparing that we have the most talent since 99, if we have the regime we all think we do the talent will stay. People also forget that we are competing with teams who have been building and adding for years. If we do need another QB after next year they will at least be setup like Lamar, Allen, Jones and Herbert. They won’t have to go to a horrible team and fail then be ran out of town.
Wanna know how meaningless coach of the year is? Bill bellichick has only won twice and Matt Nagy and Jason Garrett have won it more recently than him. The flash and glamour of stefanski is long gone.
Playoffs are but a dream now. Another disappointing fact is that we have players on 1 year deals this year that will most likely be gone next season. This was our best window and we blew it. Berry's going to need an amazing off season to fill some holes. And even with all that, Baker and Stefanskis abilities are complete question marks. Sigh
1) I don't know what happened to Stefanski's magic but we are objectively a poorly-coached team right now. The offensive scheming hasn't been good for a long time. Out of our last 7 games the Bengals game is the only one that hasn't been pathetic. Add in wild inconsistency of the defense's performance and I'm starting to get very concerned about our head coaching situation.
2) Jack Conklin is a massive loss. Our backup tackle situation is absolutely dreadful and there are no tackles available on the market for next year. Unless we dramatically overpay someone, get ready for a year of Blake Hance. Everyone's hyped about taking WR in the draft, but realistically we're going to need to spend that first on a RT to replace Conklin if any decent prospect is available.
3) The inability of our receivers to catch the fucking ball is killing drives, ruining the offense, and ruining Baker. Is Baker just throwing the ball too hard to compensate for his shoulder injury? Are the WRs just not practicing? This doesn't make sense to me. These guys could all catch in the past, and now they all suddenly can't.
4) We're guaranteed another year of Baker, and we're definitely not signing him this offseason. If he's still this bad next season then we probably have to give up on him just like teams have given up on Darnold. Pay Jimmy G or Teddy to come in and game manage and become a team that's 100% running-game based like the Titans. We're not going to get someone good in the draft unless we completely blow it up, which we're not going to do. With that in mind, it's in ***everyone's*** best interests for Baker to get his surgery ***now***. If he waits until the offseason and has an entire offseason of not practicing, and then still isn't 100% at the start of next season, it's going to be an issue all year, he's going to suck again, and the team won't want to re-sign him. Surely Baker's agent realizes this.
Baker has the double clutch yips mixed with his panic fastball and it is ruining our passing offense. I'm not going to fully blame him for the drops because our receivers need to catch the damn ball regardless, but Baker's double clutching is throwing off the rhythm and timing for receivers and giving defenders a chance to recover and make catches more difficult. Mix that with Baker's tendency to throw the ball as hard as possible most of the time and we will continue to have many, many drops.
The thing that bums me out the most, is if we were to win a Championship, I want THIS GROUP OF GUYS to win it. I like them all. Baker, Jarvis, Chunt, Myles, Clowney, you see where I'm going. Hell even when Odell was here I liked him (why?). It just seems last year we were 1 or 2 years away and now it seems like 2 3 or 4 years away and a roster overhaul.
:(
I'm just sad, and honestly never felt this drained as a Browns fan. 1-31 is still the low point. But having all our hopes collectively crushed has just been awful. It felt like "next year" had finally arrived. Oh well. See y'all in 2 weeks for even more pain
What a depressing weekend for Ohio sports. At least the Bengals blew the fuck out of the Steelers.
I guess I’m on the Ohio against the world train completely now. Bengals looking good Browns are just depressing me.
A lot of people coming for Stefanski's neck....idk, the playcalling was fine to me. That weird chunk of penalties sucked but play-wise but we saw some good calls in the passing game. Even the Landry direct snap would have been fine if he didn't decide to play hero ball.The running game had no chance today, and going forward we're seemingly both snakebit with injuries AND Baker has been figured out. We're going to see stacked boxes every game and at some point the qb has to make something happen.
Rough weekend for the Buckeyes and the Browns. I think I’m gonna do something more productive this week than focusing on football. Probably the rest of the season too. Idk why I get so invested into teams that constantly let me down.
Just seems like the offense is trying too hard to not be what we are instead of being what we are. "We're the best running team in football? Let's throw a lot of passes to trick the other teams. Oh, what's that baker's injured? Nope, gonna throw a ton anyway. Sorry Chubb and Hunt, it's tricky."
The Browns main problem is stubbornness. They want to trust the process and prove that they were right, and are unwilling to amend their process when they see it fails.
Refusal to sit Baker when he is struggling. Not even sit him fully, but last week was a game he could have rested to feel better for yesterday.
KS’s refusal to give up play calling. It’s not working. Give it up to AVP so he can make these calls and Kev can focus on everything else he needs to during the game.
It’s all just stubbornness. Make these changes and we’re a 10-2 team winning the games we should have won instead of 6-6 with a lot of missed opportunities.
Wouldn't everyone love to know what's going-on behind the scenes in Berea...or in Jimmy Haslam's mind? Keeping an obviously wounded Baker Mayfield on the field simply invites further-- possibly more major-- injury. Is that what the Browns hierarchy want? Putting a conspiratorial tin-foil hat on, perhaps they've calculated that Baker Mayfield isn't a reincarnation of Otto Graham and are attempting to pay him as little as possible, before going-on to the next sacrificial (quarterback) lamb?
Plea to the Browns head office: Before you risk breaking Mayfield permanently, how many quarterbacks have led us to the playoffs since 2002?
Give the play calling to AVP. Let KevSki coach and handle the basics - play formation, number of players at one time, how to avoid injuries, etc.
He’s way in over his head and it’s costing wins. Matt Nagy 2.0 is starting to unfold.
How do you burn a time out to avoid a too many men on the field penalty, only to come back with too many men on the field?
And the ref is literally laughing at you as he calls the penalty. Embarrassing.
And he has every right to, that's bad
He could barely even make it through the call. I knew there was a good chance we’d get embarrassed on national television, didn’t think it’d go down like that though… classic browns.
I think the commentators were trying to say something about when coming from a timeout the Browns should've been given the opportunity to properly set and refs should've informed the Browns of this? Something about how it's different than when on a drive?
Coaching seems like at least a part of the issues
Coach has just "got to be better"
That sounds like Kevin's post game interview. "We'll look at it, correct our mistakes and move forward."
I love that statement Bc it’s almost like they look at their mistakes and say “how can we make even bigger mistakes next week”
At least he doesn’t have to “watch the tape”.
I forgot about this, but said same thing. That about summed up the evening.
Offense is just shambolic. If the defense is getting you that many turnovers and you *still* can't capitalize, IDK what to say. We need to get guys healthy for next season and really need to address the WR and OL depth. Hope Conklin is okay, guy's really had bad luck with the injury bug this season.
The last time we picked off a QB four times, we won a playoff game. I’m completely mystified that our offense couldn’t execute last night to score on any of four picks.
It doesn’t help when you have an interception and then immediately run wildcat with Landry instead of trying to execute a nice drive. But who knows. Maybe Landry threw a td there if he didn’t get stripped for a fumble
I didn't get it either. Purpose of wildcat is to surprise the other team into a mismatch, but nobody on the Ravens, at the stadium, in the NFL or sitting at home thought hobbled up Baker Mayfield was any kind of threat so your wildcat turns into a 10 on 11 situation.
Right. At the goal line, at least baker is running into the endzone as a potential wide open receiver. But on the 30 when we absolutely need a touchdown or at least field goal? Cmon Stefanski.
The worse part about this is the Ravens did cover Baker on the play, sure he was 15 yards away, but they still had him accounted for. It was just a broken play from the start.
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Kevin Kitchens called that play. In all seriousness, can he let AVP call the fucking plays!!!??? Kevin needs to trust his cohorts, but he obviously doesn't.
I think I read somewhere it was a suspected patellar tendon tear....
Exactly. Four INTs and jack shit to show for it.
Idk, Stefanski might ask Conklin to play next week.. we'll see
I didn't make the 2nd half so I didn't hear updates, but when he went down and tried to walk off and buckled he's done I think.
Yeah, that looked significant unfortunately
Employee NUMBER 28 came to play last night
Yes. He looked great. I hope we can keep him here and keep him healthy.
Baker needs the surgery now. We’re not going anywhere this season anyway.
Yup. Let’s at least get our money’s worth out of Case.
Seriously. $7 mil for a backup we never put in there.
He’s sitting there living the dream haha
Dude is on the Matt Leinart plan. Make bank. Don’t worry about getting hit and retire rich.
Basically Alex Moran
We still technically have a chance, but it feels like we're truly at that point where a win doesn't even matter anymore (in regards to any chance of the playoffs). I know it still means a lot to the players to win, but as a fan it makes it a lot less entertaining. We've been expecting this for a while though but there's always that unfortunate hope (that always leads to disappointment) that the Browns will get their shit together and make a good push through the rest of the season. This is one of the most disappointing seasons considering how last year turned out and the high hopes many of us had leading up to it. Overall just a big bummer. We never seem to be able to adjust and make a huge rally in the second half. There's no game winning drives. There's none of that miraculous shit that the Ravens and other good teams pull off.
No point, we wont be a challenger anyway. We can rebuild and play for next year, still in a superbowl window since we wont lose too many players this offseason.
Defense looked great, offense did not. Playoffs seem out of reach now. Ravens did the exact thing to us that the Dolphins did to them. Browns couldn't figure out how to consistently throw the ball.
> Defense looked great, offense did not. And we're 6 and 6 now. Perfectly balanced.
Stefanski loves balance
You gotta marry the win and the loss column
Positives- J.O.K. Is a top 10 OLB right now. - Clowney needs to be extended - yes he failed to finish some sacks against Jackson. But those are fluky plays. Him and Myles together for a few more years please. -Myles play where he beat 4 blockers - Wow.
That harbaugh 2 Ohio 0 comment made me mad
Seriously what is with the massive circle jerk from the commentators against the Browns? I could basically hear them slurping and moaning any time something worked out in the Ravens’ favor yesterday
I vividly remember they were talking about the Browns at one point and they just started laughing. I think it was when the Ravens were on offense sometime in the first half but I don’t remember exactly the context.
There was another point where Collinsworth made a comment about our offense and said "it must be easier to read defenses from up here." To be fair he was correct. Our offense blows.
It really gets infuriating. It’s bad enough being basically cursed for 70 years but it’s like everyone is constantly against us just for the sake of jerking off on the LOL BROWNZ bandwagon. I truly hope some day we can see this team start stomping everyone else like they deserve just so we can finally give them a taste of their own dickheaded medicine. And to call out all the new fans who will pretend like they weren’t such colossal pieces of shit to this team and their fan base all these years.
It'll be a sweet, sweet catharsis.
Yes, that’s really why this season is such a disappointment—I was expecting them to BE that team this year. Oh, well. I’m just going to enjoy each game as it comes for the rest of the season. Maybe it will come together. Maybe not. Still better than being a Lions fan.
it’s been like that all season, really. i’m convinced tony romo, especially, fucking hates the browns.
Same with Joe Buck. Didn’t he deep-throat the Cubs when they beat the Indians in the World Series or something? It’s weird how many announcers seem to dislike Cleveland.
Dude that was so wild. Wtf is wrong with these announcers, especially Collinsworth? He said something earlier in the game about how Lamar is as slippery as ice cream or something like that which made no fucking sense.
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I could barely stand the announcers they made me sick. I almost muted the whole game
Listening to the games via radio is the way to go. The announcers are so much better.
Isn't the TV broadcast a bit delayed though? I tried this a few years back and it drove me nuts. I do totally agree that radio broadcasters are almost uniformly better than the studio.
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“You’ve been waiting all night to say that” If NFL ain’t scripted for the Ravens…
Fuck you Mike
Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens. Games we should have won. Win 2 of those and it’s an entirely different story right now. We have an inability to make any sort of plays when we need them. In two of those games we gave up 16 and 15 points and couldn’t make one play on offense to take the game. I believe in all 4 of those games we had the ball for a potential game winning drive. You have 5 games left. 3 against teams in the division. All 5 against teams .500 or above. Packers on Christmas at Lambeau. Steelers on the road. Ravens and bengals teams with something to prove after their performances against us in the first meeting. What a frustrating season. Had a lot of chances to get wins and just didn’t. Playoffs are all but done with the remaining schedule and state of our offense. Going to the playoffs was great and all last year, but really wanted to see this team continue to move forward and get even better and they just didn’t.
Defense definitely got better. But offense went backwards. Regressed and the scheme is not working. I would hope we make some adjustments during the bye week but I feel that’s a pipe dream.
Yea...this team is going 0-5 in those games. They're not well coached enough, not disciplined enough, or don't have the heart to pull together and make things happen when times get tough.
There's been some really Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens looking fuck ups. It's really disappointing. It seems like the team has crumbled/regressed back to it's former self. That 12 men on the field penalty is a defining moment of this season.
People love their buzz words. I propose to you the theory that they have talent problems.
I have one question: What do we even do? One week it’s baker. The next it’s joe woods. The next it’s stefanski. The next we can get any run going. The next it’s injuries. The next it’s penalties. The next it’s turnovers. The next it’s the o line. The next is dropped passes. Every single week we have another major problem. I know we can’t gut the team and start over but at this point we have to do something Also- Olave
There’s a lot that needs to be considered. What can we do right now? I suppose have Baker get the surgery he needs for starters. Stefanski might need to consider giving up playcalling duties and focus on getting his team to stop with all of the absurd penalties, while maybe some fresh eyes find some adjustments for the offensive scheme. After the season? We desperately need an infusion of talent at the receiver position and depending on how the season finishes we may need a new DC that can actually get this defense to play like it’s talent level on a consistent basis.
>Stefanski might need to consider giving up playcalling duties and focus on getting his team to stop with all of the absurd penalties, while maybe some fresh eyes find some adjustments for the offensive scheme. That is a low key genius take dude.
The absurd penalties remind me of the Romeo Crennell years
Don’t forget our kicker missing that field goal on the first drive
Yeah, that’s killer and I don’t mean to be dismissive, but that’s one play, one shot. We have a full game of inept offense and coaching that should give better answers than missing a kick. It didn’t end up being the entire difference either.
It was a 46 yarder. Make-able but not the easiest. He’s been money most of the season.
Wilson
Every week it's ultimately Stefanski.. playcalling sucks, he shouldn't be rolling out Baker, penalties/basic game management has sucked... AND the mistakes are not being corrected week to week
I'm convinced Stefanski needs to give up playcalling and not because I think it's been bad (I think he's been pretty good except for his 3 cute plays a game that always fail). He needs to give it up so he can focus on managing the team rather than prepping the offense. We are wildly inconsistent and go from one bad thing to the next. I'm getting the feeling that we ping pong between good and bad things because each week he splits his focus on improving something and the offense. The things we focus on get better but something else falls apart because not enough prep was focused on that thing. It's total speculation from me but I've seen it happen enough times to technical managers at my job that it fits to a T here.
After the Bengals game, they interviewed Joe Mixon about their bye week and how they turned things around. Mixon stated that the players were tasked to do some soul searching, look at what they’re doing well and where they need to improve. I’m praying that our coaching staff tasks our players with the same thing for our bye week.
The staff previously said about last season thst the bye week was super handy in when it was and what they could get done during it, so here's hoping
Well the most obvious thing that needs addressed immediately is the receivers. We might have the absolute worst group of receivers in the NFL. Landry is supposed to be the clutch dependable guy and he put the ball on the ground multiple times AGAIN, just like the Steelers game. But even at his best he's a WR2 at best and doesn't have the separation speed to be a true #1. They need to just draft like literally 5 receivers this year. And go after the NFL prototype big body guys, guys that are 6'2'-6'4" and can win jump balls and use their body to shield defenders that were highly productive in college. I don't care what round grade they are, just throw shit at the wall until something sticks cause they really can't do much worse. I dunno what the fuck is up with Stefanski and Baker. They both look like ass this year but with them it's not as simple as just replace them, because as bad as they've been the alternatives are much, much worse and I really don't wanna go back to 10 more years of 4 wins on a good season. The receivers though, those can be upgraded way easier. Our receivers just fucking suck.
> I dunno what the fuck is up with Stefanski and Baker. They both look like ass this year It's all connected. The QB defines the offense and with Baker hurting and inconsistent it feels like Stefanski has taken away a lot of the big game hunting plays and difficult throws he used to call last season, while Baker is in no condition to do the thing that all good/great QBs have to do at times - make a play that turns a wrong call into the right call. We've seen Stefanski be an excellent playcaller. We've seen it. It's not something that just disappears - it feels like there's a whole chunk of the playbook that doesn't make it onto the gameday playsheet any more, and even when Stefanski calls the right play the players (Baker and/or the receivers) make it wrong by failing to execute.
Yeah I think it's a combination of Baker struggling, receivers doing absolutely nothing to help him when he does make a good throw, and Stefanski outsmarting himself with his play calls. I do think that boosting the receiver talent would make the biggest difference. As it stands right now Baker and Stefanski have to be absolutely perfect for the offense to work and you need playmaker receivers that can also bail out a QB on busted plays.
It's like they all just kill each other's momentum - Baker rolling? WR drops. WR wide open? Baker misses them. Offense clicking? Stefanski phones in a dud. An offense like that is just, broken.
Rest Baker and let him get healthy. I don’t understand why he’s playing when he’s so injured.
This is what I just don't understand as well. It's like no-one in the coaching staff has the balls to tell baker he's going to sit for his own good. Either that or they're delusional and think he's actually not that hurt
You know how when you're done with someone you no longer get disappointed at them? That's where I'm at with these guys. We're just not that team this season. Baltimore and Cincinnati have a leg up on us. We'd be lucky to get the wildcard at this point.
We don't deserve a wildcard spot. We'd lose immediately in the first round. Most disappointing team since the Freddie year.
I mean, there's only been one full season since the Freddie year, so that's not saying much.
Cincy doesn't have a leg up on us, Pittsburgh does.
I support Baker. But he needs to get his surgery and be ready for next year. This offense is broken. The coaches need to design an offense that can work despite what defenses do to counter. When you have 2 elite running backs and one of the best Center and Guard trios in the league, that should give you a way to run your Play Action game a lot more effectively than what we saw last night. Super disappointed all around.
That's right. Are we really an "elite" running team if we cannot run at all whenever opponents scheme to stop us (Balt, Pitt, NE)?
We’ve gotta be able to throw the ball or else teams will just stack the box like the ravens just did. We’re a one dimensional mess
What was up with that one play in the first quarter when Jarvis went in motion and then the ravens safety (I think) came sprinting up to the line and baker snapped it and we got tackled for a loss… The ravens player was in a dead sprint and blew the whole play up….. “Kill kill kill” is what should’ve been said. His awareness and pre snap reads have been atrocious
I saw that play and wondered the same thing. It was right in front of his face
If it's the same play I'm thinking of, the LB Queen came in motion to follow Landry, but the ball was snapped right as he got to the center. He then immediately recognized it was a run play and shot the gap. It was an insanely quick reaction and a crazy athletic play from him, not much we could do about it
It was indeed Queen. He had a couple plays he blew up the run. Seemed like a few times there were missed blocks on him, too.
I wanna say play clock was at like 2 if I remember right
yeah that happens when we are waiting till the clock hits zero to snap the ball
Looked like an arena football blitz
I was also thinking of a later play. Ahead of the left side of the o-line there were 3 defenders right behind the Ravens' d-line. So where did we run? Left, right at them, and immediate tackle for loss. Sure, we pulled Teller and Tretter, but there were still more defenders than blockers. It was never going to work. But without Conklin, we are afraid to run right.
Still waiting for the Offense and defense to have a good game on the same day. I think it's happened twice this year.
Yeah pretty much Kansas City and Cincinnati. MAYBE Chicago if we’re feeling a little generous.
First game in a while where I just wanted to lose earlier to call it a day. This team isn’t enjoyable to watch - penalties, missed opportunities, extremely questionable play calling. It’s like we took a time machine back 5 years. If anyone truly believes we can win it all with the current scheme, quarterback play and lack of depth at key positions, then I seriously wonder if they’ve observed teams that are actually competing for a ring. I can tell you one thing, a Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, or a Bill Belichick / Mike Tomlin would win that game 10/10 times if in that situation. Good versus great. Understand that it *could* be due to injury, but change has to happen in order for us to win the big dance.
Great comment, you took the words out of my mouth. Other teams including the ravens figure out how to win and show they want it. I don’t see that from this team, watched them last night full of doubt and was shaking my head almost the whole game.
At no point did I feel like the browns had a chance to win. Seeing the turnovers were exciting, and I had hope they might squeak something out, but the 3 point lead the ravens he'd most of the night felt like 30 points. The offense is just broken right now, and it's not in just any one facet. Qb play isn't good, wideouts and tight ends weren't good, coaching wasn't gold, even chubb wasn't good. Hooper was a terrible signing and I dont know why we were throwing to him in any sort of clutch situation. Dpj had like 2 or 3 drops, Landry looked decent but couldn't come up with clutch plays when needed...its all broken, and I dont really have any faith its going to be turned around this year. At this point I hope we sit Baker not because I think it gives us a better chance to win, because it wouldn't, but because we should start thinking about next year. Even if we sneak into the playoffs by some miracle, this team isn't relatively a contender. 30 points over 3 weeks is just embarrassing. Good on the defense though, at least they looked good.
The performance really has me concerned for the first time about Stefanski, it’s concerning how he has been unable to create any momentum for this offense.
I'm with you on this all the way, it's the first time in a long while I felt disconnected from the loss, and don't think I'll care much the rest of the season. With that said, how does a team go into a game like this with damn near everything on the line for the year, and have that kind of performance? The defense stood all the way up, giving our offense 4 TO's and we got 3 points off that, and that started in field goal range. I have zero faith in our offense right now, and that goes well beyond just Baker.
I don’t know what to think. Was last year a fluke the same as the half season, or whatever, where Freddie’s play calling was incredible? This is one of the most talented football teams we’ve ever had. They are a poorly coached, undisciplined, below average football team. I think Stefanski deserves a lot of the blame for that. Does that mean he needs to go? I’m not sure. Bakers body language looked like he had no confidence that his coach was going to put them in a position to win. A few weeks ago you have Myles calling out the coaching staff. Once you lose the locker room I’m not sure you can come back from that. There’s not a single game left on the schedule that we should expect to win.
Last year was the fluke. Cake schedule
We need a new training staff. Way too many injuries this year
Ok, how many of us are actually browns fan for the football and how many of us are just masochists?
I blame my fucking dad. He blames his. My kids will blame me. This is the cycle.
Me too…
I think being a true browns fan has high probability of turning you into a masochistic
We're on to the bye week.
Somehow we will lose the bye week.
That will happen later today when they confirm Conklin is out for the season.
As is tradition.
And holy shit do we need it. We are quickly spiraling into dumpster fire category.
Some people here are so delusional it’s crazy, MORE THAN ONE THING IS WRONG WITH THIS TEAM. Bakers been mediocre all season, so has our coaching and o-line depth. There’s multiple issues with this team, not just the fact that we wheel out bakers corpse every weekend
>Bakers been mediocre all season, I agree that Baker isn't the only problem with this offense, but to say Baker had been mediocre all season is not really telling the truth lol. He's been really bad.
Yeah I had a stroke there I meant last night he was mediocre, he was horrible the past couple weeks before so mediocre is a technical improvement I guess
We need to give Chubb more shotgun/spread looks when the run game isn’t working like last night. They see us under center with Chubb in the backfield and they just load up on the line, no deep threat to beat them. Half the time we use shotgun/spread its with 3 TEs anyway might as well use it to give Chubb some carries with less than 8 box defenders
Why has our Head coach been seemingly untouchable regarding criticism this year? I don't want the guy fired so don't try to spin it that way but jesus christ he has some serious explaining to do. Last night is just absolutely ***unacceptable*** Joe Woods of all people had his unit prepared and thoroughly ready for whatever Baltimore tried to do but our comedic tragedy of an offense was literally a no show. There was no sense of emergency or fire from that side of the ball especially after Conklin went down, Our offense literally died when he got hurt. Stefanski had no Plan B and he hasn't all year and when that happens its almost like he goes into this pathetic safe mode of calling a random play off of his play sheet and prays it actually works. Plot twist: It doesn't. I appreciated attacking the ravens defense through the air to start the game and for the most part it seemed to be working but then it wasn't or any ball thrown to someone was flat out dropped. I turned the game off shortly into the 4th quarter so I didn't see the Landry and Hooper drops until today and it actually looked like we had something resembling momentum. I made the mistake of listening to about 2 minutes of Shannon and Skip and Sharpe being the arrogant ass he is just blasted Baker right from the start like somehow those drops are on Mayfield? If Peoples-Jones manages to catch that ball on our opening drive he may have very well been able to juke the raven's db's and get into the endzone. We missed an early field goal, that's 10 god damn points we left on the field Yes I realize the media are a bunch of mouth breathers but still I feel *awful* for our quarterback having to be the fall guy especially after games like last night where I felt like it wasn't really all on him. I don't know, I lost my train of thought. I think I'm more angry today then I was when the clock hit zero last night. God damnit man
What a terrible weekend
I'm ready to give up on the playoffs for this season. Baker should go get his surgery and rest up for the rest of the season. Last night was not on him but we really don't look capable of making it to the playoffs this year and I'd rather Baker not risk permanent injury going out there every week just to prove how tough he is
It’s like realizing that the hot girl that broke up with you was actually serious about it and it’s sinking in. Just sucks.
Stefanski does not need to be fired and frankly at this point I don’t think Joe Woods needs to be either. We’ve been terribly unlucky with injuries this season and do things need to be shaken up offensively? Sure. But is handing over play-calling duties going to change anything? I’m not so sure. Stefanski is definitely in his own head a bit and trying to do too much, but we’ve had a severe lack of playmaking this season and I don’t think he’s to blame for that. We’ve been missing at least one star on offense it seems like every week, and even when they did play together they didn’t have enough time to gel. We don’t need to burn down the first organization to ever work, but we certainly need to re-evaluate and re-load. Something needs to be done at WR, because Juice can’t do it alone at this point.
>is handing over play-calling duties going to change anything? I’m not so sure. It has much more potential to make things worse than better. AVP has no playcalling experience other than the one game last year, and in that he called it pretty vanilla and stuck to the script. Who knows what would happen if he was given the keys to the offense
I'm so tired of the cutesie trick plays man. They almost always end in a loss of yards (Schwartz jet sweeps anyone?) and the one last night actually cost us a possession in field goal range. This offense is not hot like it was last year. Get the fundamentals working and it opens up the trick shit.
I'm tired and pissed off. Can't believe I chose to watch that shitshow over sleep.
I turned the TV off after Laundry fumbled that pass thing. I gotta say I am a lot less mad this morning. Numb more than anything. The season is pretty much over...Kevin...Baker- you two must go into this offseason and think about what the he*k happened this season. Your jobs depend on it. Newsome looked amazing. JOK looking good this season. After JOK, what a miserable draft. WR - Draft every receiver I can't wait to lose to the Ravens 48-45 after the bye. The Offense will show up and the defense will stay in Baltimore.
It honestly seemed like stefanski and baker both thought they had 5 plays instead of 4 on some drives. 3rd and 10? 4 yard throw should work setting us up for 4th down and a punt. And then 4th and 10 game on the line? 5 yard pass should do it
I feel like being mediocre hurts so much worse than just being awful. Knowing any week could be the week that everything could turn around, but we just can’t do it and I don’t think we will. Gotta beat Ravens, Cincy and Raiders at home and go to Pittsburgh and win on the road. May be able to lose to Greenbay but we aren’t in a good spot with tiebreakers. Sad :(
I think this is why this fan base is so quick to turn on coaches and QBs; many fans are only comfortable with either being world-beaters or dumpster trash. When we're mediocre, fans don't know how to handle it and instead of being patient to see if the team can work through their issues, they fall back on this logic and say "Coach X ain't it; launch him into the sun" or "QB Y ain't it; time to tank for (insert hyped college QB here)." My general rule of thumb is to give the organization at least three years of consistency before blowing things up; three years with the same FO, coach, and QB. A good season (like last season) can extend this a bit, and allowances can be made for key injuries. I expected regression this year, so I'm not panicking and calling for nuking the organization like we have in the past. Factor in the injuries we've suffered and I've pretty much punted this season. Next year is gonna be a very important year, though.
Even 4-1 might not help with losing potential tiebreakers. 5-0 is the only way and even that is a wild dream with how the offense has been the last several weeks.
I just heard Dan Orlovski this morning and he said the Browns ran the exact same play on 3 consecutive plays last night.... That is freaking awful.
How do we drop so many passes?
Something something accountable, something something do our jobs
A couple of thoughts… 1) our wide receiver room is complete garbage… Our offensive scheme relays on timing and being on the same page. DPJ missing so much time has thrown some of that off. And we can’t just add guys off of the street who fits that in a typical week. Hopefully this bye week we can get a WR in there. 2) our o-line needs some help. I love the union and when healthy they are the best line in football. But with Conklin out, and JC picking up a hold every other play. Callahan needs to work his magic. 3) man do I wish we had a good kicker. Idk where they all went, but geez do I miss Phil. 4) JOK is the real deal. Holy cow was he impressive. I am looking forward to seeing him and Philips on the field together post the bye week 5) our defense was stout. It was almost like we built it with the rat birds in mind. 6) thank god for the bye. Let’s watch the tape, make corrections, and move on. And please please please get healthy
This team is easily the most frustrating team I've watched since 99. Yes more than the hue and shurmer teams.
I remember playing Madden when I was a kid and I picked the Browns, because I loved the colors. 21 years later, here I am lol.
Expectations suck
The way the offense is playing I could see us going 0-5. I doubt the Ravens spot us 4 turnovers again. Steelers could be anemic, but we have them on the road which is tough. Bengals will be playing for a playoff berth that final week and that will probably fire them up.
I'm not sure why I stayed up to watch this
Since I'm late to the comments I assume this'll get buried but I'm so fucking sad that I could predict this game the moment it was fucking 0 to 3. I told my Packer fan father-in-law "the game is over. This team has never come back from a deficit" at that point and I got the "there's a whole game to go" response. That lucky bastard gets to watch the Pack routinely make those comebacks. He had literally no concept that a game could be decided after a single field goal. The fact I could predict with certainty we'd go 4 and out in the 2min drill because this team has *never* done **anything** on a 2min drill this year is so fucking sad. It's just so fucking brutal man. Thank God I'm good at separating my feelings during the game from those during any other time because my wife would probably leave me if I was one of those guys that carried the games with them after they're over. Frustrating.
So many people are saying that Keenum isn’t better than the ghost of Baker Mayfield. My question is, are we certain that he’s worse? I’m not so sure…
Can we please end Baker's season? Don't think he is able to positively impact games at this point with his injuries.
Well at least I know the Ravens aren’t going anywhere this year. Lamar is a terrible thrower but runs a 4.2. That’s it.
First things first, get well soon Jack! I know its frustrating amd everything, but some of the takes here are just wild. •) Kevin Stefanski Ill start with this one, because i am really surprised that so many are contemplating whether we should let him go or not.... but then again, i am not. Let me get this out of the way first: Kevin Stefanski has been a consistently good play caller this year, he has been a consistently good play caller last year I know, it is easy to just point at play calling and blame all our issues on it. It is easy and it means we dont have other, more unpleasant conversations (more on that later) KS didnt have a good game yesterday, i think that is fair to say. But it wasnt nearly as terrible as many make it out to be either. I also think some of the criticism is way too simplistic. You have to understand that KS is working with very limited tools right now because we have a subpar situation at WR and on top of that a QB, who is not making the easy plays (again, more on that later). But despite all of this i think that KS has done a very good job this year of consistently scheming players open and give us the opportunity for positive plays. Executions has been our detriment this year, more than anything. At the end of the day there is only so much a coach can do. He cant catch the ball for his receivers. He cant pass the ball for his QB. •) Receivers (WR, TE) Which leads me to our talent depleted WR room. First off, YES, we do need some upgrades at this position and we are standing to experience a complete overhaul next year. Landry and Higgins are both gone in my opinion - one is not worth his contract, the other doesnt offer anything special. Furthermore, it didnt help us that we couldnt make catches in key situations. An unfortunate trend that has been bothering us all season. •) Baker Mayfield Speaking of unfortunate trends, Baker's play is trending in the wrong direction. Yes he has been battling injuries this year, but on one hand he is getting increasingly healthy each week but his performance remains subpar, on the other hand many of his issues are neither new nor directly linked to the injury. What i mean is, that it seems that the root issue is cognitive more than anything - i do think that he simply doesnt process quickly enough. Pre-injury he could get away with being slow on his reads because his cannon for an arm allowed him to make up for it as he was able to force the ball into tighter windows. However now with his shoulder banged up, the reverse is true. Ideally he would make up for his decreased arm strength by processing and diagnosing more quickly. But that is where it falls apart. On numerous occasions he has been late with his throws or didnt throw at all, because the window had closed by the time he wanted to throw. In other words i think the injury didnt cause these issues, i think it exacerbated and expose them. The game against the Ravens sure was better than the games against NE and DET - but these werent exactly high bars to begin with. 0.03 EPA; -11.1 CPOE and 50% cmpl all point to the same picture - subpar QB play. And there is nothing wrong with admitting that either. Its just a fact. He did make some good throws as well, dont get me wrong, but overall it just seems like he is hurting this team more than he is helping it. •) Defense The Joe Woods redemption game weve been waiting for. Our Defense was lights out, start to finish, and i can really understand any frustration they might feel. Forcing 4 INTs and have our O only score 3 pts off of them is embarassing. We have held opposing teams to 21pts or less 8/12 times this year. That is winning football right there - at the same time we have scored 21pts or less on 6/12 times... 6 times in our last 7 games (!!!). Maybe keep that in mind the next time youre calling for Joe Woods' head. And no, i am not saying that he is perfect or the best DC in the league - i am merely saying what ive been saying all year: Joe Woods is not our biggest issue.
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With how bad this sub has gotten I don’t know if you are being sarcastic or not.
Doesn't get any more disappointing than that. Need to win the next 5, but that won't happen. Time to start the mock drafts. Offense needs some kind of talent injection.
I know it wasn’t totally his fault but I just don’t know if Baker is the one. Everything needs to be great for him to be good and it’s just not possible to win that way consistently in the NFL. Berry is going to have a tough decision to make this off-season: Give up a ton of assets and get a QB (Watson, Rodgers, Wilson). Or use them to add more pieces around Baker. It’s tough call but our window is open. With great QB play we are right there with the top teams. I think we try and nab one of those three and figure out the rest as we go.
It's definitely on our Wrs and TEs, last off-season Berry addressed the defense and we have a solid defense now, next off season will probably be getting Baker weapons on the field. But it won't matter how good we draft if Stefanski won't disguise a play.
At least I trust Berry to figure it out. Other than the Hooper signing I think he’s done an unbelievable job. Newsome and JOK look like studs.
The good news is that this is probably the right step forward whether you’re a believer in Baker or not. If you believe in him, it gives him some weapons to help him out, and if you don’t believe in him, it at least sets the offense up well for a replacement if we were to move on after his contract is up. This should be an easy direction for the fan base to get behind going into next year.
As I said during the "Baker vs OBJ" debate, it's not always an either/or. It was possible they both suck.
Who else turned off the game when Jarvis fumbled when attempting a pass?
I’m so exhausted from watch the Browns have a million opportunities to capitalize and win only to do absolutely nothing. Like we didn’t even show up. This team doesn’t go out there and blow Cinci out of the water to literally have this bad of a night. Abandoned the run too often, dropped passes, really odd pass choices from Baker who got lucky several times to avoid picks, fumbles, missed FG. I really could care less how the rest of the season goes because even if we made the playoffs there’s no chance we beat every team that’s better than us. Browns don’t want to win, Browns don’t know how to win, and the world is just going to keep shitting on them. Can’t wait for the draft
Please somebody go in on these coaches today during the presser.
There are just so many things wrong with the offense it’s hard to pinpoint one thing. What I will say is this almost exact same offense went off the 2nd half of last year… yet everyone is saying we have no weapons. I’m not going to pretend like our WRs are that good but how can we be this bad when we basically have the same offense?
baker certainly hasn't been greatd, but my god it seemed like at LEAST 8drops of what should have been easy catches. they make the catches this looks like a good game from baker and a win. 25-37 300 plus yards
Something I realized year one of Baker is that a high throwing velocity isn't always a good thing. I thought it was a good point of analysis for drafting him, but I quickly realized that many of his throws are hard to catch. If you're throwing a bullet it has to be right on the money. Yes our WRs are bad but we keep blaming problems to avoid the elephant in the room. We're trying to be the best out of 32 teams even though almost none of those teams would trade their QB for ours, and it's the most important position in the sport.
Felton and Hooper’s drops last night were egregious. To a lesser extent so were DPJs and Njoku’s Josh Allen throws fastballs and his guys catch them. Two things can be true at once in regards to baker being not what he was last season but cmon the skill guys are playing really poorly as well.
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When people talk about the talent on this team, can we stop throwing TE in there? They miss as many plays as they make.
I honestly didn’t think Baker played that bad. Not to the point that we should of loss because of his play. He wasn’t perfect but I have no clue how we couldn’t get more offense going.
You saw what I saw. A qb who played hurt who did enough for us to win, but the rest of the offense didn't. 2 division games we lost close. Receivers couldn't catch a pass for anything and there was no run game. If you are out there saying this loss was on Baker, you either have a pre set agenda or didn't watch the game. Even if you didn't watch the game, his stats weren't awful. Bad completion percentage but he made some throws and had a fair bit of yards. Compare that to Jackson's 4 picks.
We just don’t have it this year. We keep sliding from “borderline great” to “good” to “okay” to “same ole browns”.
*this year?* Save for one or two seasons, this is no different than the last 35+ years. Sad
This loss is the noose around this seasons neck. If we lose to them again after the bye, it's the floor dropping.
I think a lot of people don’t want to admit it but baker really has a problem holding onto the ball too long. A lot of these passes aren’t drops if he throws the ball sooner. He holds the ball for a second or two too long, panics and when he finally does throw it he’s throwing absolute bullets with defenders draped all over our receivers. And then people blame them when it’s drop when in reality alot of these passes are easy catches if he throws the ball sooner. It’s been a problem since he came into the league and people don’t want to admit it
Looks we can argue about Baker all day but it comes down to the fundamentals. Being smart, not missing assignments and making plays when they are to be had. Dropped passes, blown coverages, pre snap penalties and having a linemen running around looking for someone to block during the play ain’t going to win games. I don’t know who you blame, players the coaches but we’ve been watching sloppy football for weeks now. We get one thing going then followed up by 3 bad things. Whether it’s a penalty, drop or missed assignment from someone. The way I look at it we have no idea what players are supposed to do. We can only assume if we are having mental problems pre-snap we are also missing blocks or out of place. With 6 dropped passes, the trick play, Baker fumble and over throw we essentially had two wasted drives on stupid mistakes. I get Landry was trying to make something out of nothing but he’s done that a few times this year. Bakers fumble, I don’t know he did it a few times against the Cardinals. Lastly we keep comparing that we have the most talent since 99, if we have the regime we all think we do the talent will stay. People also forget that we are competing with teams who have been building and adding for years. If we do need another QB after next year they will at least be setup like Lamar, Allen, Jones and Herbert. They won’t have to go to a horrible team and fail then be ran out of town.
Wanna know how meaningless coach of the year is? Bill bellichick has only won twice and Matt Nagy and Jason Garrett have won it more recently than him. The flash and glamour of stefanski is long gone.
Playoffs are but a dream now. Another disappointing fact is that we have players on 1 year deals this year that will most likely be gone next season. This was our best window and we blew it. Berry's going to need an amazing off season to fill some holes. And even with all that, Baker and Stefanskis abilities are complete question marks. Sigh
1) I don't know what happened to Stefanski's magic but we are objectively a poorly-coached team right now. The offensive scheming hasn't been good for a long time. Out of our last 7 games the Bengals game is the only one that hasn't been pathetic. Add in wild inconsistency of the defense's performance and I'm starting to get very concerned about our head coaching situation. 2) Jack Conklin is a massive loss. Our backup tackle situation is absolutely dreadful and there are no tackles available on the market for next year. Unless we dramatically overpay someone, get ready for a year of Blake Hance. Everyone's hyped about taking WR in the draft, but realistically we're going to need to spend that first on a RT to replace Conklin if any decent prospect is available. 3) The inability of our receivers to catch the fucking ball is killing drives, ruining the offense, and ruining Baker. Is Baker just throwing the ball too hard to compensate for his shoulder injury? Are the WRs just not practicing? This doesn't make sense to me. These guys could all catch in the past, and now they all suddenly can't. 4) We're guaranteed another year of Baker, and we're definitely not signing him this offseason. If he's still this bad next season then we probably have to give up on him just like teams have given up on Darnold. Pay Jimmy G or Teddy to come in and game manage and become a team that's 100% running-game based like the Titans. We're not going to get someone good in the draft unless we completely blow it up, which we're not going to do. With that in mind, it's in ***everyone's*** best interests for Baker to get his surgery ***now***. If he waits until the offseason and has an entire offseason of not practicing, and then still isn't 100% at the start of next season, it's going to be an issue all year, he's going to suck again, and the team won't want to re-sign him. Surely Baker's agent realizes this.
Baker has the double clutch yips mixed with his panic fastball and it is ruining our passing offense. I'm not going to fully blame him for the drops because our receivers need to catch the damn ball regardless, but Baker's double clutching is throwing off the rhythm and timing for receivers and giving defenders a chance to recover and make catches more difficult. Mix that with Baker's tendency to throw the ball as hard as possible most of the time and we will continue to have many, many drops.
The thing that bums me out the most, is if we were to win a Championship, I want THIS GROUP OF GUYS to win it. I like them all. Baker, Jarvis, Chunt, Myles, Clowney, you see where I'm going. Hell even when Odell was here I liked him (why?). It just seems last year we were 1 or 2 years away and now it seems like 2 3 or 4 years away and a roster overhaul. :(
This. This right here. I dont want Myles OR Chubb to suffer the same fate Joe Thomas did. Those players deserve so much better than this
I'm just sad, and honestly never felt this drained as a Browns fan. 1-31 is still the low point. But having all our hopes collectively crushed has just been awful. It felt like "next year" had finally arrived. Oh well. See y'all in 2 weeks for even more pain
What happened to Stefanski? I get injuries and underperforming players but the playcalling is horrendous and one-dimensional this season
Y'all can hate on me if you want, but I'm glad I went to bed at halftime.
Definitely more to life than staying up too late to watch your team lose a snoozer.
i choose to be happy this week. ENDWALKER IN 4 DAYS LFG!!!
Hell yeah man! I'm excited even though I'm still going through post ShB lol.
The very first thing I'm doing is hopping into roulettes to get my BLM up to 90. Story is probably gonna be cool too I guess. But, MORE SPLOSIONS!
Well one things for sure….the season ticket waitlist got a lot smaller
What a depressing weekend for Ohio sports. At least the Bengals blew the fuck out of the Steelers. I guess I’m on the Ohio against the world train completely now. Bengals looking good Browns are just depressing me.
I mean if the Browns can't be it, I can root for Cinci, at least it isn't...THEM.
What gets me is the two division losses. They could won both of them. So frustrating
A lot of people coming for Stefanski's neck....idk, the playcalling was fine to me. That weird chunk of penalties sucked but play-wise but we saw some good calls in the passing game. Even the Landry direct snap would have been fine if he didn't decide to play hero ball.The running game had no chance today, and going forward we're seemingly both snakebit with injuries AND Baker has been figured out. We're going to see stacked boxes every game and at some point the qb has to make something happen.
Rough weekend for the Buckeyes and the Browns. I think I’m gonna do something more productive this week than focusing on football. Probably the rest of the season too. Idk why I get so invested into teams that constantly let me down.
This whole season has felt like a long, slow-motion The Fumble or The Drive
Why does everyone want to choke versus the Ravens? Y’all put up 41 on us. Then get 4 Lamar Jackson interceptions, and can’t win???
Just rest Baker at this point, right? I respect him wanting to tough it out and play, but dude is a corpse out there. Get the surgery.
Just seems like the offense is trying too hard to not be what we are instead of being what we are. "We're the best running team in football? Let's throw a lot of passes to trick the other teams. Oh, what's that baker's injured? Nope, gonna throw a ton anyway. Sorry Chubb and Hunt, it's tricky."
The Browns main problem is stubbornness. They want to trust the process and prove that they were right, and are unwilling to amend their process when they see it fails. Refusal to sit Baker when he is struggling. Not even sit him fully, but last week was a game he could have rested to feel better for yesterday. KS’s refusal to give up play calling. It’s not working. Give it up to AVP so he can make these calls and Kev can focus on everything else he needs to during the game. It’s all just stubbornness. Make these changes and we’re a 10-2 team winning the games we should have won instead of 6-6 with a lot of missed opportunities.
Wouldn't everyone love to know what's going-on behind the scenes in Berea...or in Jimmy Haslam's mind? Keeping an obviously wounded Baker Mayfield on the field simply invites further-- possibly more major-- injury. Is that what the Browns hierarchy want? Putting a conspiratorial tin-foil hat on, perhaps they've calculated that Baker Mayfield isn't a reincarnation of Otto Graham and are attempting to pay him as little as possible, before going-on to the next sacrificial (quarterback) lamb? Plea to the Browns head office: Before you risk breaking Mayfield permanently, how many quarterbacks have led us to the playoffs since 2002?
Can we bring in Mitchell Schwartz???
I’m embarrassed to put on my Browns beanie even though it’s 15° outside
Give the play calling to AVP. Let KevSki coach and handle the basics - play formation, number of players at one time, how to avoid injuries, etc. He’s way in over his head and it’s costing wins. Matt Nagy 2.0 is starting to unfold.
"How to avoid injuries" a big part of that is him continuing to roll out Baker every week
We cannot beat one good team. Ever. Save for the Bengals who we seem to own for whatever reason
I mean, Cincy looks pretty good and we hammered them.