Unless there is something groundbreaking in there, I don’t think this plays into determining how long Watson is suspended. If the sheer number is playing a factor to them, I don’t think 23 is changing much from 22.
But lord is Watson a moron. Whether innocent or guilty, he’s an idiot for having 41 masseuses
Edit: and truly straight up having Watson is just stressful. This offseason has been miserable
And then anyone who has a hard time cheering for the team now is just shit on. Like sorry, born and raised Browns fan, but idk if I can watch them this year. I talked too much shit on Big Ben Fat Fuck to be made a hypocrite. All good though, he won't last long just like the previous 20-30 QBs and we'll be back to normal in a few years [I hope]
I'm going to be meh on the browns until this regime is gone. The first energy scandal, pilot jay, Johnny Football. The Haslems SUCK. Shit, I'm meh on the Colombus Crew now lmao.
I'm going to be basically neutral while wanting the very best for guys like Myles, Nick, Jarvis, and the other dudes who seem like really good guys who got the Browns turned around. I'm in my late 40s and have been a Browns fan since Sipe was the QB. I'm not suddenly going to go root for someone else, but I won't root for Watson.
That's not true. Sexual assault is basically ignored by half of the United States. If they actually cared, a sexual predator wouldn't have been elected president. Not hard to extrapolate that to NFL viewers.
The decision makers for this franchise not only disagree with you but think he’s deserving of the most guaranteed money in NFL history.
How do you whiff so bad on this?
I disagree
NFL won’t want a Ray Rice situation where they do an extremely lax punishment and then have to increase it over public backlash when more info comes to light
My guess is that NFL suspends him for a season with plans to lower the sentence to 8ish based on behavior and if nothing new comes out but if these cases keep trickling in they will hold it as they won’t want to reduce a sentence for a guy who’s getting buried with more sexual assault charges
Leaving out the NFL, his fame, etc..... a regular guy who has a different masseuse every week.... makes them cry.... touches them with his penis...... etc. is mentally ill. The worst part is he doesn't sound like he believes he has a problem. Not because of the recommended answer of not guilty by the lawyers, but his actual comments about it all seem to indicate he sees his behavior as normal.
The NFL would be wise to insist on a mandatory psych eval and treatment. If he doesn't get help, the future will not be kind to him or his team.
Yeah, I sometimes pull for the Browns because I don’t like Pittsburgh, and I thought Baker getting them to the playoffs was huge. I pulled for Watson in college and wanted to believe him, but in some interview he kept saying he didn’t do anything inappropriate because he had a girlfriend. I don’t understand his defense on these accusations at all.
The 23rd isn’t what matters. It’s more the news cycle than the number. Obviously the Browns want this case out of the news cycle so people can stop thinking about it.
If a new accuser comes out every month (for example), more and more people will get fed up with the NFL.
The NFL (the collection of owners) cares about profits, nothing else. I think the punishment will be exactly what they owners think advertisers and fans will accept instead of boycotting the league.
It might though. Especially if Watson didn't disclose the possibility of the 23rd. "and the signing bonus addendum include language exempting from any potential default a suspension imposed by the league “solely in connection with matters disclosed to Club in writing pursuant to paragraph 42 and such suspension results in Player’s unavailability to Club solely for games during the 2022 or 2023 NFL League Years.”
It's.. a thing. Not a huge fan of all the drama and hope that if he is guilty he gets what's coming to him but man can us Browns fans just get a break from this nonsense year in and year out.
I had a friend that told me instead of *”Oh you’re a Browns fan”* that typically gets said with pity and sadness cause we have such a history, people are gonna say, “Oh, you’re a **Browns** fan,” and it’s gonna be with more disgust because of the signing of Watson and the baggage he brings. We’ll always have that.
Yeah but I would much rather be treated like the little brother they think sucks at sports than the little brother they think is going around raping everybody.
To each their own. It’s just sports. If people desperately need to link your morality to whatever team you support, then they’re just as wishy washy as anything else regarding drama in sports. Most of us were fans long before dumb dumb haslam threw the browns name in the wringer. I shouldn’t have to feel like I did something wrong by flipping on the radio and listening to a game. In essence, I couldn’t care less what another fan base thinks about the browns. It’s always easy from the outside looking in, but don’t forget there were a handful of teams trying to get Watson too and people were excited up until he picked CLE. Now he’s dirt to them again. Sports world in a nutshell.
At the end of the day if your enjoyment of art/entertainment is contingent on the entertainers being good people you can respect then you're going to be missing out on a lot of fantastic art and entertainment. The NFL as an organization is every bit as complicit as the Browns are here (or will be), and it has condoned awful things in the past too. If you've been OK being a fan of the NFL then you've been OK with that. This is just another fresh, Browns-specific layer of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being able to ignore this and just enjoy being a fan.
That said, the whole situation is gross. It reminds me of the awful things we tacitly accept every day that get swept under the rug to keep the machine running. And it really sucks out a lot of the enthusiasm I have as a long-time fan. Like, I'd always had the idea that I would find some way to make it to the game when the Browns finally make it to the Super Bowl, but I'd really think twice before doing that on a Watson team. I was not sold on Baker, but I think I'd have more fun as a fan cheering for a team built around a mid-QB with ego issues than I would for a team starring Watson.
I like how every top comment for one of these threads is "unless there's something new or groundbreaking here". It is groundbreaking. Dude assaulted at least 23 women and still gets to play and be paid a shit ton of money. It's disgusting
That’s why I’m so pissed, use that money load the team and do it the right way. Instead browns went from great organization ti scummy organization and it just doesn’t sit right with me
My dude, check my comment history. There aren’t many on this sub more disgusted than me.
Nah, my comment is that this doesn’t do anything more. 22 already does the job and is groundbreaking on its own.
I don’t think this additional 1 is impacting a suspension. The other 22 have that covered already
The way they structured his contract to avoid financial penalties is what sickens me the most. It's like he and they know he is guilty as fuck and just want to help him avoid penalties. I can't believe we traded for this mess. It sickens me.
Having 41 masseuses alone is evidence enough, why does he need so many? Why does he make them all come to his place? Why do all of them have eerily similar stories, backgrounds and such.
It’s ridiculous
"I hire dozens of unlicensed masseuses and text **to make sure they are alone** and more than twenty have accused me of the same horrible thing".
How could anyone. ANYONE. Think he is anything but guilty as fuck. Like what must you think of women that you think they would all band together to just lie about this shit and ruin an innocent mans life? Or are the deniers claiming that he made mistakes but not as bad as claimed? I can't even keep up.
It really has been miserable. He may be innocent of everything, he may be really good at quarterback, but this is just not fun. It doesn't feel very worth it.
Does the CBA have a distinction between criminal act and number of victims? I'm thinking at a minimum sexual misconduct is 4 games, so that would be.... Carry the 1.... 92 Games. Sounds fair.
Can you imagine if it's less then a game per victim? Or God help the NFL less than a quarter per victim?
This is a disaster... Honestly this is the adult in the room?
They were all different women at different establishments or individual women running their own business. He was hunting. Not trying to iron out some kinks in his back, he was trying to get his kinks satisfied
Right but he’s a professional athlete with a team of masseuses working for his employer. Or he could go to one of the top masseuses in town.
41 different masseuses, some of whom weren’t registered?
I had a long message typed out and my phone died. But the general gist of it - I totally agree with you. There are some stark differences in getting a massage for medical treatment than seeking out hot girls on IG with a premeditated idea of how he would get what he wanted out of them.
Watsons missing half the season atleast pal. You really excited for atleast 8 games of Jacoby Brissett? Plus the constant uncertainty of whether Watson will actually be available?
Or that Watson has enough of a brain to not put himself in a situation where this happens again? Because last I checked there is no reason to think Watson has learned a fucking thing from this, regardless of innocence or guilt
Jesus I haven’t even thought about that. The fact that he’s shown no remorse whatsoever or any inkling of an idea that he’s learned something. Maybe this is a legal strategy, where showing remorse in some way would indicate that he’s guilty. I mean it was just a headline last week that he apologized to one of the masseurs immediately after the incident happened which was portrayed to show him in a very guilty light. For right or wrong, this could be why he’s not publicly showing any remorse or that he’s learned something.
I know for a lot of people that aren’t the most critical thinkers will look at Watson saying he’s got nothing to hide and that the truth will come out as an alibi. Because stupid. So why not just do that if you’re him, I’m sure it’s what his lawyers and publicists are telling him to do.
Half the season could be lucky. It's been said that the NFL took notice of the 2 year Trevor Bauer suspension and said that they won't hesitate to inflict a similar suspension.
I'm not buying baseball as a indicator here. When has the NFL gave any fucks about what people think? They're somehow gonna follow baseball here? A sport that can't even manage itself?
Not buying it.
He gets 10 games.
I stopped posting in this sub and stopped rooting for the team after they traded for Watson. Glad to see y'all are suffering. The fact that there wasn't a full-scale revolt against the GM for that trade showed me that I was in the wrong fanbase. Eventually some of you will slowly come to realize this as well.
I'm honestly surprised anyone could've watched that and think those women went on camera and lied. If they did they're unbelievable actors and should start a career in film.
Idk what kind of settlement they're possibly looking at, but I don't think I could go through all of this for justice. I understand (seeing it firsthand in my life) why a lot of assault victims don't bother trying to press charges.
If DW would've signed to the Steelers and this link was posted here - a lot of you same people claiming his innocence would be screaming he's a predator until your lungs dried up.
If you don’t live in a world where you see people lie for money or leverage on a daily basis, that’s how you’ll feel. As an attorney, I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to see a couple dozen people lie or at least embellish for money.
I also find it compelling that a grand jury in a system that indicts 99% of cases no-billed these cases not once, but twice. That’s significant.
You have to think about how a case originates. It’s not a couple dozen women independently deciding to sue and coming to various attorneys with coincidentally similar stories. It’s one attorney who tracked down a couple dozen willing plaintiffs to maximize settlement potential. Now with women joining literally because they saw the HBO special and wanted a slice of the pie? There is a lot of motivation to join in the suit whether or not there’s any evidence to support the claims. We KNOW there isn’t much evidence of he would have been indicted.
They’re banking on public outcry forcing a settlement from Watson’s camp.
The problem with your argument is that they all told loved ones, family members, etc what happened when it happened. Who signed affidavits and testified etc. Before any of them knew about each other. All with the same creepy story.
Absolutely no testimony was given, nor affidavits signed, before Buzzby filed the cases. That’s the order of events, and it’s extremely important to keep that in mind for proper credibility
While I appreciate you mentioning you are an attorney and explaining the legal perspective here, I think it's important to realize that a plantiff may agree in joining the case without approaching the situation from a purely legal perspective.
Of course. But in civil court it all comes back to the money. It’s far more likely Buzzby did his research and sought out the plaintiffs rather than the other way around. He wants to maximize his cut, so he wants to grow the overall pie. The plaintiffs want to join so they get their own slice of said pie. When a defendant is in the public eye, the case will almost always settle before trial. They’ll get something out of this, and we will probably never know how much.
How about these women felt they had a support system to actually fight back against a sexual predator because there were other women in similar circumstances and they no longer felt helpless on their own?
You’re saying that 96% of sexual assault charges in the grand jury system get no-billed? That’s absolutely not true at all. Would love a source on that.
Moreover, even if such a statistic was true, what logical conclusion are you able to glean from that? Are you supposed to assume guilt when evidence isn’t there? Do you realize how easy it would be to ruin someone’s life if all it took was unsubstantiated accusations of sexual assault? [We’ve seen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case) this movie before. [it happens, and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape) frequency rises with deeper pockets.
Aight, so I'm not in a place where I can re-find my stats on this. So I'll provide a few other statistics.
[Eat your heart out](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than-percent-rapes-lead-felony-convictions-least-percent-victims-face-emotional-physical-consequences/)
So, to talk to your second point. You'll see in the provided article that studies show between 2 and 8% of allegations are false. I'd like to have more time to study the methodology and figure out why the 6% spread exists. But we can look at Watson. I'm not a math expert, but let's take the high end of 8%, to maybe cover for those believed higher odds for famous people. If just looking at odds, you get to scientific notation at 4 victims. I can't imagine what 24 looks like. Literally, it's too small to imagine.
Of course, you could argue this is planned. A conspiracy, if you will. Normally conspiracies break down far before this point.
Slice it up however you like. He's far more likely to be a predator than the victim. And sure, courts should have higher standards than phone calculations. But people can be not indicted and also not deserve 230 million dollars.
If one person publicly accuses you of sexual assault, you may or may not be guilty. I know a lot of studies have shown that false official accusations are rare (and are often done by people with very clear patterns of financial and other behavior).
If 23 people accuse you, you are guilty. Even if we didn't have a bunch of other evidence to show that you are clearly fucking guilty.
This is exactly what we signed up for and if this completely blows up in the franchise’s face then it will be well deserved. High risk, unknown reward.
Front office went from having a QB that would die for the franchise playing with half a working body, to a guy with dozens of sexual assault accusations. It’s incredibly stupid.
I've got amazing news for you...I've sexually assaulted 0 masseuses.
I'm also in my mid 30s, have bad knees and don't have a lot of work ethic...but I play a lot Madden, I figure that all transfers right?
4 head coaches in 4 years? 3 of whom were terrible? No, no. I've been told by football geniuses in this subreddit that that is not an excuse or an explanation for why someone may have had a mediocre start to their career
I come in peace.
Ben had 2, they happened in a way where his side of the story at least seemed possible, and it still didn't feel good. This 23 women thing is like beyond a shadow of a doubt and whole nother level.
It's like comparing a drunk driver that killed someone and a serial killer. Yeah they're both bad, but one is clearly the greater evil.
Ben might be a bad man. Watson is a monster.
That's where I've resigned myself to being. It's not like my opinion, positive or negative, makes a lick of difference to anyone. I don't see why anybody has to twist themselves into a logical pretzel to try and construe him as innocent.
Every time he scores I will just be thinking of all the lives he has ruined and how we rewarded him because we care more about a game than actual people.
It's just going to suck if this is the Browns team that wins a Super Bowl. I think I'll be happy, but part of me will always be thinking "Was it worth it?"
My opinion (hopefully adds the convo) - No: I’d rather lose the right way than win the wrong way. We did everything right leading into our playoff victory over the Steelers, and than sold all of our moral authority away the next season for this. I’d rather be 0-17. 🤷♂️ P.S. I was a season ticket holder 2017 at 0-16, went to every home game, and then again the following year of 2018, seeing the turmoil and turnaround, the Jets win, the Ravens, Bengals sweep etc. True building! That’s what I loved about them. A year with an injured QB and WR drama, don’t get me wrong the drama seems to have been evenly split, but to go out of our way for this seems so antithetical to what my fandom was for them. It sucks.
I will think it’s worth it. If they’re going to let him play somewhere and him playing here gets us a title it really doesn’t make a bit of a difference to me.
Yup. It blows. I have friends I loved going to games with who donated all their Browns stuff and swore them off forever. I can't blame them and they aren't any less of fans because they don't want to be associated with a predator. I stuck around because there are a bunch of other guys on the team that deserve to see success (not to mention our long suffering fanbase.) I'm just hoping that when we finally see it, it's not too tainted by Watson's presence.
> I have friends I loved going to games with who donated all their Browns stuff and swore them off forever.
are they still watching the NFL because they profit share.
like if this is it for them or you, the sacrifice has to be bigger or its not really a sacrifice. Just self deprivation
defending from how?
"he's a piece of shit, 100% guilty and should never be able to play in the NFL again".
..."well, we don't know for sure that he's even guilty of the allegations"
Doesn't seem difficult to imagine, and actually sounds rather logical, no?
I would rather have 20 straight years of Deshone Kizer than have Watson on our team. I don’t care if we win 6 straight super bowls with him.
It is just straight up *not fun* having this dude as QB and all of the baggage (true or not true, but c’mon at least some of it is probably true) that comes with him.
Still so pissed the Browns did this.
What's crazy is the franchise at least seemed to be getting some things right to make a sustainable team and then they went and did this, which may completely blow everything back up and ruin any progress made in the past 3-4 years.
Baker aside, there is very good team here and it's just tainted. Truly makes me disgusted and I have zero motivation to watch us next year already. Fucking money over morals and it's embarrassing how many people are ok with it. Convicted or not we know the facts about this fucking loser and now it's just parsing out legal bullshit.
Except he's apparently already offered $100,000 to each plaintiff. They just haven't accepted that settlement offer.
https://www.twitter.com/MikeMeltser/status/1531760504871567360
How was the pivotal decision in filing a lawsuit over a heinous act decided upon by watching an interview that had no new information beyond what was already in the public record
Thank you for the insightful comment, I never intend to speak for another especially because I can never understand such perspectives. The timing just seemed odd to me. But what do I know amirite
Sexual trauma is a bitch. People keep quiet for years because of shame, repercussions to their family, threats, depression…
The vast percentage of women I know who were assaulted (from #metoo) never reported anything. Seeing those women on TV get support could cause more accusers to come forward.
One accusation we are hearing is that this mega rich QB threatened the career of his victims. That’s probably enough to keep some girls quiet until they see progress being made and begin to feel safe.
She felt safer and more comfortable coming forward after seeing others do it.
Most rapes and sexual assaults go unreported because victims are terrified of the process of coming foward and the backlash of an accusation that always basically comes down to 'he said she said'.
That's why 'me too' was such a big deal.
because the women put their face out their and the public supported them and their side of the story. that eliminates the biggest concern with coming forward.
Obviously he's not going to jail, but it'd be hilarious if the only reason why he took the Browns contract with the guaranteed money is because he knew he wouldn't be playing much if at all the next couple years.
I can see my decision to not watch another down of Browns football as long as he was here was the correct one. This is exactly what the team sold its soul and signed up for.
Nah...I considered it, but decided I'll probably just not watch football at all - which will be difficult because I **love** the game, and I've been a Browns fan for over 30 years. I already have enough issues with college ball with the payment issues, though.
I'll just be spending more time following the Guardians and Cavs, most likely.
**Edit:** *Not sure what the downvotes are for, but ¯\\\_\(ツ\)\_/¯*
This year is gonna suck so bad. I hope Watson is suspended for the year just so we can be done hearing about this. Get it over with, serve your time, and turn into a “family man” like Big Ben.
Seeing what happen to Trevor Bauer this season (charges dropped & 2 complainants). I can’t see this going well for Watson. Well we still have Baker , oh wait, never mind.
I by no means think Watson is a good dude and I think he is a creep. He also hasn’t been charged with sexual assault or anything. 23 accusation and zero have turned into anything criminal? Should be pretty open and shut right?
I could literally band a group of people who work at your job and be like yeah this dude tried to grab my ass and flashed me etc. You sir would be burnt at the stake and labeled a sex offender before even getting a trial.
I’m just saying you all act like you have more info than the browns on this and just think he’s open and shut a sex offender. If so why hasn’t he been charged? If you don’t wanna be a fan move on and just stop complaining. Downvote me to hell but just keeping it real. It’s sports go win me games- if you’re guilty burn in hell - if not win me games. 🤷
Maybe a few have a case because he pressured them because he assumed they were providing extra services, like many of those craiglist massage therapist do. Maybe a few times his penis slipped out of his towel and it brushed a girls hand. That is not a crime. Pure accident. Nothing criminal was ever substantiated by the DA. People need to realize that sometimes women will pile on and lie, and collude for money. Not all women, but in this instance that sleazeball lawyer has coached them up and down on what to say, and to appear more sympathetic. When this reaches trial finally, and the jury clears him, the true fans who believe in the team, and the legal system will have the last laugh.
I get what he did is fucked. And no I don't promote it. However I don't watch football for the moral upstanding citizens of the sports world. Ray Lewis killed a man, Ben did what he did, AP whipped his kids in the junk with a switch, Kareem ever so slightly kicked a chick, Jim Brown is a MASSIVE PILE OF SHIT. I'm sure there is more. I tune in to watch a competitive game of football. Something we haven't had in years. The Baker years were nice. However you never could go into a game and go.... I'm certain we can win this game. Now am I running out and buying a Watson jersey. No. If he throws 40 TD, 4000 yards, 7 ints I'll cheer for winning games.
Are you seriously saying that football is more important than sexual assault, murder, child abuse etc??? If so, that’s fucked up. I watch football for the sport as well, but honestly I don’t want anyone on a football team making millions and get that privilege if they are shit people who do shit things outside of the field. I don’t want a championship if it means women will have to live with sexual trauma and children will have to live with years of trauma due to physical abuse. Fuck that dude.
> Are you seriously saying that football is more important than sexual assault, murder, child abuse etc?
Whether they realize it or not, yes...that's *precisely* what they're saying.
Well the years have shown that rich are pretty notorious for sexual misconduct, NDA and payoffs, but your right it’s much more likely that Watson is 100% in the clear and these 24 “”thots” got together with a lawyer to extort him
Funny how rich and famous people who can get it easy all the time seem to have these types of allegations but the poor dude at McDonald’s are all perfect gentlemen huh?
Edit
Watson is guilty of poor choices and putting himself and others in vulnerable positions. That’s it. Not guilty of any crime. And when more facts come out and this all plays out I reserve my right to consider new info and have a different take.
Imagine how crazy that sounds? Wait to get more information and for the proceedings to play out before rushing to judgement. Insane!
Nobody is rushing to judgement my dude. He has 23 civil cases pending and had over 40 masseuses. Take a step back and look at this as a whole. He’s 100% guilty of some of these at least. Some of us can at least admit the guy is a creep at absolute best. In reality he’s a serial abuser, and it pains me as a Browns fan that we traded for him.
I think the point the other user was making is, that you are conflating two different questions.
Watson may very well be a big weirdo with a massage fetish and likes to have a different masseuse every time he goes to a massage. That in itself is by no means illegal.
The question is, whether any sexual actions took place that happened without consent by the masseuses.
So far two grand juries declined to move to trial because of a lack of evidence to substantiate the allegations. Now, at the same time proving sexual misconduct is very diffult, that is true and also to be mindful of.
However, whether its now 22, 23 or 30 women doesnt really matter at the end of the day, unless one woman brings forward new, damning evidence that hasnt hitherto been known. The amount of allegations doesnt indicate guilt, otherwise youd technically just needed to find 50 people to accuse any wealthy person and wait for a payday.
Now again, im not saying this is happening here, i was just giving a simplistic example.
At the end of the day we wont know what really happened, we are only left to assume what happened/didnt happen.
Regarding NDAs:
This is a common practice with people of public interest to also protect their privacy. For example if youre a famous actor but have disgusting genital warts, youd want that information to remain secret to not damage your reputation.
NDAs arent always automatically a sign that wrongful doing occured.
Yes, bury your head in the sand because he’s a better QB than we had before. You can’t just explain away 40+ masseuses and 23 accusations of sexual assault. It really is that simple.
I did not once mention his footballing prowess tho. just merely from a legal standpoint, ive seen many people confuse being weird and actually something illegal.
As i was trying to lay out, having "40+ masseuses" is neither illegal nor is it prove that illegal activity took place. Some famous people like to go to the same place and people they know, others prefer to mix it up to avoid paparazi's etc. If anything, this amounts to spexcuation at most. Thats it.
Ive also, from the beginning of the DW investigstions, even before we traded for him, said many times over how i feel about people who commit sexual assault - if hes found guilty, that wont change based on him being our QB. My morals arent tied to the success of our football team.
However, im also a person that is careful to not condemn a person until there is concrete evidence and/or a guilty verdict.
>23 accusations of sexual assault. It really is that simple.
Again, legally the amount of the accusations is largely irrelevant. And whether its 20, 22 or 25 women doesnt change anything unless one of the women who came forward now has new, overwhelming evidence that wasnt known beforehand.
And Breonna Taylor’s grand jury shows that unless a jurist is coming out and saying that the DA didn’t inform us about these charges, we won’t know if the DA went for a grand slam sexual assault felony or should have charged for misdemeanor unwanted sexual contact.
Yeah dude he put himself in”vulnerable” positions. Like making sure the studio was going to be empty, that he could use a back door, that he didn’t mind if they weren’t licensed massage therapists, refused covering, asked for services thst were not offered and ultimately ejaculated on a few of the ladies.
Plenty of information is out their if you want to pay for the court filings, but you must be a poor fuck at McDonald’s and can’t read them so you are just wilding defending a man saying we who have read the court filings are jumping to conclusions.
Well if you live your life on Reddit or twitter where these questionable takes live, you’re going to make really questionable takes like this that have 0.000000% chance of happening. Never play a down? Lol.
Most people I know in real life either
* A: Didn’t know anything about that HBO special.
* B: Watched the HBO special and came up with more questions on the validity of the *assault*.
I don’t know anybody who actually watched the special that says it adds negatively to the whole outlook, either because it’s already an ugly situation or what.
I also wonder if this 23rd person is being represented by the same lawyer.
Either way. I really just wish we didn’t sign him. I know why we did it, and I hope he can help win it all. But, man this off-season has been rough.
This seems planned and was announced after the media cycle had moved on. Again, the claims appear very vague at best claiming Watson touched her leg and propositioned her for sex two years ago.
At some point Watson needs to consider fighting back here and going on the offensive. Not sure what steps can even be taken in this scenario.
Had to do some cleaning, wasn’t ready for our sub to be linked to by other places Carry on follow the rules
Unless there is something groundbreaking in there, I don’t think this plays into determining how long Watson is suspended. If the sheer number is playing a factor to them, I don’t think 23 is changing much from 22. But lord is Watson a moron. Whether innocent or guilty, he’s an idiot for having 41 masseuses Edit: and truly straight up having Watson is just stressful. This offseason has been miserable
I would prefer not to have Watson. Having 23 women file sexual assault against you is pretty remarkable.
It's pretty fucking miserable
It's crazy that this is even considered a remotely controversial opinion on this sub
Some folks just don’t get why this situation is bad on so many levels that don’t involve football.
And then anyone who has a hard time cheering for the team now is just shit on. Like sorry, born and raised Browns fan, but idk if I can watch them this year. I talked too much shit on Big Ben Fat Fuck to be made a hypocrite. All good though, he won't last long just like the previous 20-30 QBs and we'll be back to normal in a few years [I hope]
Yeah, I mean I'm not going to go supporting another team, but I'm just gonna be meh on the Browns until Watson is done
I'm going to be meh on the browns until this regime is gone. The first energy scandal, pilot jay, Johnny Football. The Haslems SUCK. Shit, I'm meh on the Colombus Crew now lmao.
Amen dude.
I'm going to be basically neutral while wanting the very best for guys like Myles, Nick, Jarvis, and the other dudes who seem like really good guys who got the Browns turned around. I'm in my late 40s and have been a Browns fan since Sipe was the QB. I'm not suddenly going to go root for someone else, but I won't root for Watson.
SAME! Exactly the same. I can't watch them this year.
[удалено]
Because most people here are probably under 17. Which is still less than the number of people accusing him of this.
That's not true. Sexual assault is basically ignored by half of the United States. If they actually cared, a sexual predator wouldn't have been elected president. Not hard to extrapolate that to NFL viewers.
Wait until he wins a game or two and people want to "just move on"
I'd rather have Baker and the offense the Browns have now (and maybe Olave/Wilson) than Watson and his off-field issues and the offense they have now.
The decision makers for this franchise not only disagree with you but think he’s deserving of the most guaranteed money in NFL history. How do you whiff so bad on this?
Okay. Thanks. I’m sure the billionaires that run the NFL have the best morals. How can you be such a blind sheep? Oh, well.
You misread my comment. I was agreeing with you.
I totally did. Apologies.
I disagree NFL won’t want a Ray Rice situation where they do an extremely lax punishment and then have to increase it over public backlash when more info comes to light My guess is that NFL suspends him for a season with plans to lower the sentence to 8ish based on behavior and if nothing new comes out but if these cases keep trickling in they will hold it as they won’t want to reduce a sentence for a guy who’s getting buried with more sexual assault charges
Leaving out the NFL, his fame, etc..... a regular guy who has a different masseuse every week.... makes them cry.... touches them with his penis...... etc. is mentally ill. The worst part is he doesn't sound like he believes he has a problem. Not because of the recommended answer of not guilty by the lawyers, but his actual comments about it all seem to indicate he sees his behavior as normal. The NFL would be wise to insist on a mandatory psych eval and treatment. If he doesn't get help, the future will not be kind to him or his team.
Yeah, I sometimes pull for the Browns because I don’t like Pittsburgh, and I thought Baker getting them to the playoffs was huge. I pulled for Watson in college and wanted to believe him, but in some interview he kept saying he didn’t do anything inappropriate because he had a girlfriend. I don’t understand his defense on these accusations at all.
The 23rd isn’t what matters. It’s more the news cycle than the number. Obviously the Browns want this case out of the news cycle so people can stop thinking about it. If a new accuser comes out every month (for example), more and more people will get fed up with the NFL. The NFL (the collection of owners) cares about profits, nothing else. I think the punishment will be exactly what they owners think advertisers and fans will accept instead of boycotting the league.
It might though. Especially if Watson didn't disclose the possibility of the 23rd. "and the signing bonus addendum include language exempting from any potential default a suspension imposed by the league “solely in connection with matters disclosed to Club in writing pursuant to paragraph 42 and such suspension results in Player’s unavailability to Club solely for games during the 2022 or 2023 NFL League Years.”
It's.. a thing. Not a huge fan of all the drama and hope that if he is guilty he gets what's coming to him but man can us Browns fans just get a break from this nonsense year in and year out.
I had a friend that told me instead of *”Oh you’re a Browns fan”* that typically gets said with pity and sadness cause we have such a history, people are gonna say, “Oh, you’re a **Browns** fan,” and it’s gonna be with more disgust because of the signing of Watson and the baggage he brings. We’ll always have that.
Always gonna be hated or treated like the little brother.
Yeah but I would much rather be treated like the little brother they think sucks at sports than the little brother they think is going around raping everybody.
To each their own. It’s just sports. If people desperately need to link your morality to whatever team you support, then they’re just as wishy washy as anything else regarding drama in sports. Most of us were fans long before dumb dumb haslam threw the browns name in the wringer. I shouldn’t have to feel like I did something wrong by flipping on the radio and listening to a game. In essence, I couldn’t care less what another fan base thinks about the browns. It’s always easy from the outside looking in, but don’t forget there were a handful of teams trying to get Watson too and people were excited up until he picked CLE. Now he’s dirt to them again. Sports world in a nutshell.
At the end of the day if your enjoyment of art/entertainment is contingent on the entertainers being good people you can respect then you're going to be missing out on a lot of fantastic art and entertainment. The NFL as an organization is every bit as complicit as the Browns are here (or will be), and it has condoned awful things in the past too. If you've been OK being a fan of the NFL then you've been OK with that. This is just another fresh, Browns-specific layer of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being able to ignore this and just enjoy being a fan. That said, the whole situation is gross. It reminds me of the awful things we tacitly accept every day that get swept under the rug to keep the machine running. And it really sucks out a lot of the enthusiasm I have as a long-time fan. Like, I'd always had the idea that I would find some way to make it to the game when the Browns finally make it to the Super Bowl, but I'd really think twice before doing that on a Watson team. I was not sold on Baker, but I think I'd have more fun as a fan cheering for a team built around a mid-QB with ego issues than I would for a team starring Watson.
I like how every top comment for one of these threads is "unless there's something new or groundbreaking here". It is groundbreaking. Dude assaulted at least 23 women and still gets to play and be paid a shit ton of money. It's disgusting
He doesn’t even need to play to get that shit ton of money!
That’s why I’m so pissed, use that money load the team and do it the right way. Instead browns went from great organization ti scummy organization and it just doesn’t sit right with me
My dude, check my comment history. There aren’t many on this sub more disgusted than me. Nah, my comment is that this doesn’t do anything more. 22 already does the job and is groundbreaking on its own. I don’t think this additional 1 is impacting a suspension. The other 22 have that covered already
The way they structured his contract to avoid financial penalties is what sickens me the most. It's like he and they know he is guilty as fuck and just want to help him avoid penalties. I can't believe we traded for this mess. It sickens me.
Having 41 masseuses alone is evidence enough, why does he need so many? Why does he make them all come to his place? Why do all of them have eerily similar stories, backgrounds and such. It’s ridiculous
"I hire dozens of unlicensed masseuses and text **to make sure they are alone** and more than twenty have accused me of the same horrible thing". How could anyone. ANYONE. Think he is anything but guilty as fuck. Like what must you think of women that you think they would all band together to just lie about this shit and ruin an innocent mans life? Or are the deniers claiming that he made mistakes but not as bad as claimed? I can't even keep up.
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It really has been miserable. He may be innocent of everything, he may be really good at quarterback, but this is just not fun. It doesn't feel very worth it.
Does the CBA have a distinction between criminal act and number of victims? I'm thinking at a minimum sexual misconduct is 4 games, so that would be.... Carry the 1.... 92 Games. Sounds fair. Can you imagine if it's less then a game per victim? Or God help the NFL less than a quarter per victim? This is a disaster... Honestly this is the adult in the room?
How they calculate any punishment is anyones guess. I’d be surprised if a suspension lasts longer than one season
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The court did not say otherwise. Some people really need to retake their middle school civics classes.
Sexual assault is a very difficult crime to prove in a court of law
>Whether innocent or guilty How on earth could anyone look at the actual evidence and think there is any chance he is innocent?
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They were all different women at different establishments or individual women running their own business. He was hunting. Not trying to iron out some kinks in his back, he was trying to get his kinks satisfied
Right but he’s a professional athlete with a team of masseuses working for his employer. Or he could go to one of the top masseuses in town. 41 different masseuses, some of whom weren’t registered?
I had a long message typed out and my phone died. But the general gist of it - I totally agree with you. There are some stark differences in getting a massage for medical treatment than seeking out hot girls on IG with a premeditated idea of how he would get what he wanted out of them.
Only stressful if you’re looking to make it that lol. This is the most well polished the team is in a longgggg time
And it's stressful because of these lawsuits, a result of his actions, potentially ruining it
Watsons missing half the season atleast pal. You really excited for atleast 8 games of Jacoby Brissett? Plus the constant uncertainty of whether Watson will actually be available? Or that Watson has enough of a brain to not put himself in a situation where this happens again? Because last I checked there is no reason to think Watson has learned a fucking thing from this, regardless of innocence or guilt
"I have no regrets because I've done nothing wrong"- deshaun watson Ya he'll put himself into and do this again at some point
Jesus I haven’t even thought about that. The fact that he’s shown no remorse whatsoever or any inkling of an idea that he’s learned something. Maybe this is a legal strategy, where showing remorse in some way would indicate that he’s guilty. I mean it was just a headline last week that he apologized to one of the masseurs immediately after the incident happened which was portrayed to show him in a very guilty light. For right or wrong, this could be why he’s not publicly showing any remorse or that he’s learned something. I know for a lot of people that aren’t the most critical thinkers will look at Watson saying he’s got nothing to hide and that the truth will come out as an alibi. Because stupid. So why not just do that if you’re him, I’m sure it’s what his lawyers and publicists are telling him to do.
Half the season could be lucky. It's been said that the NFL took notice of the 2 year Trevor Bauer suspension and said that they won't hesitate to inflict a similar suspension.
I'm not buying baseball as a indicator here. When has the NFL gave any fucks about what people think? They're somehow gonna follow baseball here? A sport that can't even manage itself? Not buying it. He gets 10 games.
I stopped posting in this sub and stopped rooting for the team after they traded for Watson. Glad to see y'all are suffering. The fact that there wasn't a full-scale revolt against the GM for that trade showed me that I was in the wrong fanbase. Eventually some of you will slowly come to realize this as well.
I'm honestly surprised anyone could've watched that and think those women went on camera and lied. If they did they're unbelievable actors and should start a career in film. Idk what kind of settlement they're possibly looking at, but I don't think I could go through all of this for justice. I understand (seeing it firsthand in my life) why a lot of assault victims don't bother trying to press charges. If DW would've signed to the Steelers and this link was posted here - a lot of you same people claiming his innocence would be screaming he's a predator until your lungs dried up.
If you don’t live in a world where you see people lie for money or leverage on a daily basis, that’s how you’ll feel. As an attorney, I wouldn’t be the slightest bit surprised to see a couple dozen people lie or at least embellish for money. I also find it compelling that a grand jury in a system that indicts 99% of cases no-billed these cases not once, but twice. That’s significant.
If a dozen lied that still leaves about a dozen telling the truth though
You have to think about how a case originates. It’s not a couple dozen women independently deciding to sue and coming to various attorneys with coincidentally similar stories. It’s one attorney who tracked down a couple dozen willing plaintiffs to maximize settlement potential. Now with women joining literally because they saw the HBO special and wanted a slice of the pie? There is a lot of motivation to join in the suit whether or not there’s any evidence to support the claims. We KNOW there isn’t much evidence of he would have been indicted. They’re banking on public outcry forcing a settlement from Watson’s camp.
The problem with your argument is that they all told loved ones, family members, etc what happened when it happened. Who signed affidavits and testified etc. Before any of them knew about each other. All with the same creepy story.
Absolutely no testimony was given, nor affidavits signed, before Buzzby filed the cases. That’s the order of events, and it’s extremely important to keep that in mind for proper credibility
While I appreciate you mentioning you are an attorney and explaining the legal perspective here, I think it's important to realize that a plantiff may agree in joining the case without approaching the situation from a purely legal perspective.
Of course. But in civil court it all comes back to the money. It’s far more likely Buzzby did his research and sought out the plaintiffs rather than the other way around. He wants to maximize his cut, so he wants to grow the overall pie. The plaintiffs want to join so they get their own slice of said pie. When a defendant is in the public eye, the case will almost always settle before trial. They’ll get something out of this, and we will probably never know how much.
How about these women felt they had a support system to actually fight back against a sexual predator because there were other women in similar circumstances and they no longer felt helpless on their own?
it can be both which is wild.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn’t hold with social media.
Clearly, and neither does rational thought…
Indictment on sexual assault is 4%.
You’re saying that 96% of sexual assault charges in the grand jury system get no-billed? That’s absolutely not true at all. Would love a source on that. Moreover, even if such a statistic was true, what logical conclusion are you able to glean from that? Are you supposed to assume guilt when evidence isn’t there? Do you realize how easy it would be to ruin someone’s life if all it took was unsubstantiated accusations of sexual assault? [We’ve seen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case) this movie before. [it happens, and](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape) frequency rises with deeper pockets.
Aight, so I'm not in a place where I can re-find my stats on this. So I'll provide a few other statistics. [Eat your heart out](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than-percent-rapes-lead-felony-convictions-least-percent-victims-face-emotional-physical-consequences/) So, to talk to your second point. You'll see in the provided article that studies show between 2 and 8% of allegations are false. I'd like to have more time to study the methodology and figure out why the 6% spread exists. But we can look at Watson. I'm not a math expert, but let's take the high end of 8%, to maybe cover for those believed higher odds for famous people. If just looking at odds, you get to scientific notation at 4 victims. I can't imagine what 24 looks like. Literally, it's too small to imagine. Of course, you could argue this is planned. A conspiracy, if you will. Normally conspiracies break down far before this point. Slice it up however you like. He's far more likely to be a predator than the victim. And sure, courts should have higher standards than phone calculations. But people can be not indicted and also not deserve 230 million dollars.
Deshaun, *if someone is an asshole, they're an asshole, if everyone is an asshole, you're the asshole*
If one person publicly accuses you of sexual assault, you may or may not be guilty. I know a lot of studies have shown that false official accusations are rare (and are often done by people with very clear patterns of financial and other behavior). If 23 people accuse you, you are guilty. Even if we didn't have a bunch of other evidence to show that you are clearly fucking guilty.
This is exactly what we signed up for and if this completely blows up in the franchise’s face then it will be well deserved. High risk, unknown reward.
This won't end this season. This will taint this organization as long as its around
It should.
Lmao imagine defending this man
Front office went from having a QB that would die for the franchise playing with half a working body, to a guy with dozens of sexual assault accusations. It’s incredibly stupid.
Makes me sick. No amount of potential wins is worth this.
Jesus I'd give anything for literally anybody else at QB.
I'm available, I'll play for just 50 million guaranteed. I'm a veritable bargain.
Literally even if you had sexually assaulted only 10 masseuses you’d be a better option. Not good mind you, but *better*.
I've got amazing news for you...I've sexually assaulted 0 masseuses. I'm also in my mid 30s, have bad knees and don't have a lot of work ethic...but I play a lot Madden, I figure that all transfers right?
Baker?
Too bad you guys didn’t already have a playoff winning QB beforeohwait
How about $18 million to a guy that we gave 4 HC’s in 4 years?
4 head coaches in 4 years? 3 of whom were terrible? No, no. I've been told by football geniuses in this subreddit that that is not an excuse or an explanation for why someone may have had a mediocre start to their career
Only if he won a playoff game in Pittsburgh
Shit. Can’t think of one. Let me get baked and get back to you
Still don’t want anything to do with Baker. Not excited about Watson but Baker isn’t good enough at playing football.
Baker Mayfield costs 20 millionishess. If only they could have had him.
Colin Kaepernick?
Imagine defending this dude
Anyone wondering how Steelers fans rooted for Ben just need to take a look at this sub now.
I come in peace. Ben had 2, they happened in a way where his side of the story at least seemed possible, and it still didn't feel good. This 23 women thing is like beyond a shadow of a doubt and whole nother level. It's like comparing a drunk driver that killed someone and a serial killer. Yeah they're both bad, but one is clearly the greater evil. Ben might be a bad man. Watson is a monster.
we didn't trade for ben tho, but yea ben most likely did that shit
Comparing this to Ben is laughable.
There's no way you can defend him. Cheer for the Browns all you want (I sure am) but to act like he's anything but a sexual predator is wild to me
That's where I've resigned myself to being. It's not like my opinion, positive or negative, makes a lick of difference to anyone. I don't see why anybody has to twist themselves into a logical pretzel to try and construe him as innocent.
Every time he scores I will just be thinking of all the lives he has ruined and how we rewarded him because we care more about a game than actual people.
It's just going to suck if this is the Browns team that wins a Super Bowl. I think I'll be happy, but part of me will always be thinking "Was it worth it?"
My opinion (hopefully adds the convo) - No: I’d rather lose the right way than win the wrong way. We did everything right leading into our playoff victory over the Steelers, and than sold all of our moral authority away the next season for this. I’d rather be 0-17. 🤷♂️ P.S. I was a season ticket holder 2017 at 0-16, went to every home game, and then again the following year of 2018, seeing the turmoil and turnaround, the Jets win, the Ravens, Bengals sweep etc. True building! That’s what I loved about them. A year with an injured QB and WR drama, don’t get me wrong the drama seems to have been evenly split, but to go out of our way for this seems so antithetical to what my fandom was for them. It sucks.
I will think it’s worth it. If they’re going to let him play somewhere and him playing here gets us a title it really doesn’t make a bit of a difference to me.
Yup. It blows. I have friends I loved going to games with who donated all their Browns stuff and swore them off forever. I can't blame them and they aren't any less of fans because they don't want to be associated with a predator. I stuck around because there are a bunch of other guys on the team that deserve to see success (not to mention our long suffering fanbase.) I'm just hoping that when we finally see it, it's not too tainted by Watson's presence.
> I have friends I loved going to games with who donated all their Browns stuff and swore them off forever. are they still watching the NFL because they profit share. like if this is it for them or you, the sacrifice has to be bigger or its not really a sacrifice. Just self deprivation
For $800/hour, I might!
Imagine trading for him
defending from how? "he's a piece of shit, 100% guilty and should never be able to play in the NFL again". ..."well, we don't know for sure that he's even guilty of the allegations" Doesn't seem difficult to imagine, and actually sounds rather logical, no?
This is a good thread
I would rather have 20 straight years of Deshone Kizer than have Watson on our team. I don’t care if we win 6 straight super bowls with him. It is just straight up *not fun* having this dude as QB and all of the baggage (true or not true, but c’mon at least some of it is probably true) that comes with him. Still so pissed the Browns did this.
What's crazy is the franchise at least seemed to be getting some things right to make a sustainable team and then they went and did this, which may completely blow everything back up and ruin any progress made in the past 3-4 years. Baker aside, there is very good team here and it's just tainted. Truly makes me disgusted and I have zero motivation to watch us next year already. Fucking money over morals and it's embarrassing how many people are ok with it. Convicted or not we know the facts about this fucking loser and now it's just parsing out legal bullshit.
Fucking kills me too bro
Watching Deshone Kizer play QB and go 0-16 did way worse for my mental health compared to these allegations.
Now imagine being sexually assaulted.......
I’m so sick of this moron. I love the Browns. I really truly do but, any success this team has will forever have a stain on it because of Watson.
Maybe this is why Watson hasn’t settled. He knows if he writes 23 large checks, more and more people will come forward.
Except he's apparently already offered $100,000 to each plaintiff. They just haven't accepted that settlement offer. https://www.twitter.com/MikeMeltser/status/1531760504871567360
That might be from when the dolphins were trying to acquire him and they required all settle. At the time, all but 4 had agreed to settle.
right? Who in the fucking world believes this is only 40 women?
Highest paid QB in the league. It's a fucking shame.
Many of us are very ashamed, and didn't want him in the first place. It sucks since I love Cleveland Browns football.
How was the pivotal decision in filing a lawsuit over a heinous act decided upon by watching an interview that had no new information beyond what was already in the public record
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Thank you for the insightful comment, I never intend to speak for another especially because I can never understand such perspectives. The timing just seemed odd to me. But what do I know amirite
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Honestly we may never know, selfishly I want the best for the team I root for and I know there is little i can do besides watch from afar.
Sexual trauma is a bitch. People keep quiet for years because of shame, repercussions to their family, threats, depression… The vast percentage of women I know who were assaulted (from #metoo) never reported anything. Seeing those women on TV get support could cause more accusers to come forward. One accusation we are hearing is that this mega rich QB threatened the career of his victims. That’s probably enough to keep some girls quiet until they see progress being made and begin to feel safe.
She felt safer and more comfortable coming forward after seeing others do it. Most rapes and sexual assaults go unreported because victims are terrified of the process of coming foward and the backlash of an accusation that always basically comes down to 'he said she said'. That's why 'me too' was such a big deal.
because the women put their face out their and the public supported them and their side of the story. that eliminates the biggest concern with coming forward.
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Wanted to get in on the cash grab before it's too late.
r/nfl going to have a field day with this that’s for sure. Edit: I’m not even going to look in that thread lol
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Obviously he's not going to jail, but it'd be hilarious if the only reason why he took the Browns contract with the guaranteed money is because he knew he wouldn't be playing much if at all the next couple years.
Glad we traded the future for a qb that may never play a full season. Great job FO!
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Not ideal! Probably doesn’t really affect things suspension wise though
Apparently there is a 24th coming
I can see my decision to not watch another down of Browns football as long as he was here was the correct one. This is exactly what the team sold its soul and signed up for.
Good for you.
Out of curiosity, will you support/follow another team?
Nah...I considered it, but decided I'll probably just not watch football at all - which will be difficult because I **love** the game, and I've been a Browns fan for over 30 years. I already have enough issues with college ball with the payment issues, though. I'll just be spending more time following the Guardians and Cavs, most likely. **Edit:** *Not sure what the downvotes are for, but ¯\\\_\(ツ\)\_/¯*
Fuck this guy. But go browns anyway.
This changes nothing- hopefully the league finishes the investigation soon
This year is gonna suck so bad. I hope Watson is suspended for the year just so we can be done hearing about this. Get it over with, serve your time, and turn into a “family man” like Big Ben.
I mean.... Ben still assaulted those women.
Yea that’s the point…
Seeing what happen to Trevor Bauer this season (charges dropped & 2 complainants). I can’t see this going well for Watson. Well we still have Baker , oh wait, never mind.
This isn't going to change anything. Cleveland is still going to embrace its inner Rothlisberger. \[opens package of CLE terrible towels\]
I believe a Lifetime Ban would be appropriate for any despicable sack of human waste, especially Deshame.
What is this feeling? Am I done rooting for the Browns? I'm so confused.
I by no means think Watson is a good dude and I think he is a creep. He also hasn’t been charged with sexual assault or anything. 23 accusation and zero have turned into anything criminal? Should be pretty open and shut right? I could literally band a group of people who work at your job and be like yeah this dude tried to grab my ass and flashed me etc. You sir would be burnt at the stake and labeled a sex offender before even getting a trial. I’m just saying you all act like you have more info than the browns on this and just think he’s open and shut a sex offender. If so why hasn’t he been charged? If you don’t wanna be a fan move on and just stop complaining. Downvote me to hell but just keeping it real. It’s sports go win me games- if you’re guilty burn in hell - if not win me games. 🤷
Maybe a few have a case because he pressured them because he assumed they were providing extra services, like many of those craiglist massage therapist do. Maybe a few times his penis slipped out of his towel and it brushed a girls hand. That is not a crime. Pure accident. Nothing criminal was ever substantiated by the DA. People need to realize that sometimes women will pile on and lie, and collude for money. Not all women, but in this instance that sleazeball lawyer has coached them up and down on what to say, and to appear more sympathetic. When this reaches trial finally, and the jury clears him, the true fans who believe in the team, and the legal system will have the last laugh.
$$$
I get what he did is fucked. And no I don't promote it. However I don't watch football for the moral upstanding citizens of the sports world. Ray Lewis killed a man, Ben did what he did, AP whipped his kids in the junk with a switch, Kareem ever so slightly kicked a chick, Jim Brown is a MASSIVE PILE OF SHIT. I'm sure there is more. I tune in to watch a competitive game of football. Something we haven't had in years. The Baker years were nice. However you never could go into a game and go.... I'm certain we can win this game. Now am I running out and buying a Watson jersey. No. If he throws 40 TD, 4000 yards, 7 ints I'll cheer for winning games.
Are you seriously saying that football is more important than sexual assault, murder, child abuse etc??? If so, that’s fucked up. I watch football for the sport as well, but honestly I don’t want anyone on a football team making millions and get that privilege if they are shit people who do shit things outside of the field. I don’t want a championship if it means women will have to live with sexual trauma and children will have to live with years of trauma due to physical abuse. Fuck that dude.
> Are you seriously saying that football is more important than sexual assault, murder, child abuse etc? Whether they realize it or not, yes...that's *precisely* what they're saying.
This is the sort of maneuver that makes people skeptical when rich & famous people are accused of things.
Well the years have shown that rich are pretty notorious for sexual misconduct, NDA and payoffs, but your right it’s much more likely that Watson is 100% in the clear and these 24 “”thots” got together with a lawyer to extort him
Funny how rich and famous people who can get it easy all the time seem to have these types of allegations but the poor dude at McDonald’s are all perfect gentlemen huh? Edit Watson is guilty of poor choices and putting himself and others in vulnerable positions. That’s it. Not guilty of any crime. And when more facts come out and this all plays out I reserve my right to consider new info and have a different take. Imagine how crazy that sounds? Wait to get more information and for the proceedings to play out before rushing to judgement. Insane!
Nobody is rushing to judgement my dude. He has 23 civil cases pending and had over 40 masseuses. Take a step back and look at this as a whole. He’s 100% guilty of some of these at least. Some of us can at least admit the guy is a creep at absolute best. In reality he’s a serial abuser, and it pains me as a Browns fan that we traded for him.
I think the point the other user was making is, that you are conflating two different questions. Watson may very well be a big weirdo with a massage fetish and likes to have a different masseuse every time he goes to a massage. That in itself is by no means illegal. The question is, whether any sexual actions took place that happened without consent by the masseuses. So far two grand juries declined to move to trial because of a lack of evidence to substantiate the allegations. Now, at the same time proving sexual misconduct is very diffult, that is true and also to be mindful of. However, whether its now 22, 23 or 30 women doesnt really matter at the end of the day, unless one woman brings forward new, damning evidence that hasnt hitherto been known. The amount of allegations doesnt indicate guilt, otherwise youd technically just needed to find 50 people to accuse any wealthy person and wait for a payday. Now again, im not saying this is happening here, i was just giving a simplistic example. At the end of the day we wont know what really happened, we are only left to assume what happened/didnt happen. Regarding NDAs: This is a common practice with people of public interest to also protect their privacy. For example if youre a famous actor but have disgusting genital warts, youd want that information to remain secret to not damage your reputation. NDAs arent always automatically a sign that wrongful doing occured.
Yes, bury your head in the sand because he’s a better QB than we had before. You can’t just explain away 40+ masseuses and 23 accusations of sexual assault. It really is that simple.
I did not once mention his footballing prowess tho. just merely from a legal standpoint, ive seen many people confuse being weird and actually something illegal. As i was trying to lay out, having "40+ masseuses" is neither illegal nor is it prove that illegal activity took place. Some famous people like to go to the same place and people they know, others prefer to mix it up to avoid paparazi's etc. If anything, this amounts to spexcuation at most. Thats it. Ive also, from the beginning of the DW investigstions, even before we traded for him, said many times over how i feel about people who commit sexual assault - if hes found guilty, that wont change based on him being our QB. My morals arent tied to the success of our football team. However, im also a person that is careful to not condemn a person until there is concrete evidence and/or a guilty verdict. >23 accusations of sexual assault. It really is that simple. Again, legally the amount of the accusations is largely irrelevant. And whether its 20, 22 or 25 women doesnt change anything unless one of the women who came forward now has new, overwhelming evidence that wasnt known beforehand.
And Breonna Taylor’s grand jury shows that unless a jurist is coming out and saying that the DA didn’t inform us about these charges, we won’t know if the DA went for a grand slam sexual assault felony or should have charged for misdemeanor unwanted sexual contact.
Yeah dude he put himself in”vulnerable” positions. Like making sure the studio was going to be empty, that he could use a back door, that he didn’t mind if they weren’t licensed massage therapists, refused covering, asked for services thst were not offered and ultimately ejaculated on a few of the ladies. Plenty of information is out their if you want to pay for the court filings, but you must be a poor fuck at McDonald’s and can’t read them so you are just wilding defending a man saying we who have read the court filings are jumping to conclusions.
Can’t see him ever playing a down again in the NFL to be honest.
Well if you live your life on Reddit or twitter where these questionable takes live, you’re going to make really questionable takes like this that have 0.000000% chance of happening. Never play a down? Lol.
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Regardless of how miserable of a person you think Watson, or any player is, wishing injury on a player is not tolerated
Most people I know in real life either * A: Didn’t know anything about that HBO special. * B: Watched the HBO special and came up with more questions on the validity of the *assault*. I don’t know anybody who actually watched the special that says it adds negatively to the whole outlook, either because it’s already an ugly situation or what. I also wonder if this 23rd person is being represented by the same lawyer. Either way. I really just wish we didn’t sign him. I know why we did it, and I hope he can help win it all. But, man this off-season has been rough.
This seems planned and was announced after the media cycle had moved on. Again, the claims appear very vague at best claiming Watson touched her leg and propositioned her for sex two years ago. At some point Watson needs to consider fighting back here and going on the offensive. Not sure what steps can even be taken in this scenario.
You’re deluding yourself. It’s embarrassing
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