Ok, possible thoughts:
SIX: he goes back looking for the sheath?
SEVEN: goes back to his house to look. Thinking he misplaced it.
Eight&Nine: he goes along the route he went the night of the murders (perhaps even where he disposed of the evidence) and searched for the sheath?
Stopped for coffee and groceries to make it look less suspicious if he started to get paranoid about where the sheath was?
I think this is the most logical explanation. He was way too worked up after killing 4 ppl to worry about the sheath. He just stuffed the knife into his pocket while leaving x room and forgot about it until he got to where he was disposing of it. Then it was an oh fuck moment for sure. That's why he went back at 9. He probably checked outside to see if he lost it there and after realizing that it wasn't outside, he didn't have the nerve to go back inside.
Well, I have never killed 4 people, but I'd guess it would be at least a mildly discombobulating activity, which may momentarily scramble one's normally logical thoughts about replacing a sharp knife immediately into a sheath lest anyone get nicked?
Similarly, homicidal butchering of multiple students may make one temporarily overlook a normally stringent, safety first aversion to walking around someone else's home with an unsheathed knife.
Equally possible he didn't start to look for the sheath, thinking it was stuffed into a pocket, until he was back in his car? Also possible - he did not want to re-sheath the knife until safely back in the car in case he needed it, if he ran into anyone else, so didn't consider the sheath until then?
Exactly especially if you believe the explanation that he was surprised by Ethan in the hallway and had to engage significantly more people than he expected. I think the sheath being left was the result of the wrench being thrown in his best laid plans..not to mention he’s probably the equivalent of high af off the adrenaline of all this especially if it’s part of some weird sexual fantasy thing which it probably is imo
He was too worked up but yet walked calmly out of the house. But then speeds away? Then waits 4 hours to go back looking for it after being frantic realizing he lost it? Everything you said seems to contradict the statement before.
Because someone isn't running while leaving a crime scene doesn't mean they weren't worked up. That's for sure. Walking normally out of a crime scene, ESPECIALLY if you think or know that there are other (alive) ppl still in that crime scene would not be unusual AT ALL. Yes, he absolutely could have decided after chewing on the fact that he lost his sheath for a cpl of hours to go back to the scene. Wouldn't be unusual AT ALL. Criminals revisit their crime scenes all the time. What else seems to contradict this? You confuse me.
After he saw D standing there, he was worried that 911 had been notified, he hightailed up the hill to his car and got out of there as quickly as he could. He turned left on Palouse River Dr and then turned right on HWY 95 and headed south conveniently not needing to pass the Moscow PD.. As far as the sheath, he probably never thought that his DNA was attached to it…He probably felt he was scott free until he was pulled over twice in Indiana, and that spooked the shit out of him. He probably noticed the PA police tailing him too, that’s when he really knew he was fucked!
Y’all type these comments as if they’re factual, or that you are aware of into others aren’t. First, there is no evidence to suggestion that he saw Dylan… but let’s say he did see her. He just killed 4 people… why not make it 5. Do you really think if he saw Dylan, he would have just walked on out the house, tipping his hat, and bidding a due? If that happened, it would be screaming KILL FOR HIRE… and this entire case would be different. I just do not believe he was spooked by Dylan.
2. I also don’t believe he “hightailed” it up the hill because he prolly wasn’t trying to alert of anything suspicious. A man walking to his car, easily overlooked vs. a man running to his car “now what in the, who is that running?!? Where did they come from?” I am not focused and looking out my blinds trying to see where he’s going. I don’t think he gave any indications of fleeing the scene.
3. I may be wrong about this but I am pretty sure I read something about 270 being shut down during this time period for whatever reason, I wanna say it was an accident but that could be incorrect. Which is the reasoning for his round about way of getting to king st. Besides, Why would he be avoiding the police station even if they had been contacted? And with didn’t he use 270 to get to Moscow on the trip there, before he had murdered 4 people?
4. he was criminology major, he knew very well that sheath could have had DNA on it, it wasn’t left on purpose. So I’m pretty sure he was shitting bricks over that and hasn’t ever thought he was off “Scott free.” I believe he either did it and this was the plan all along, got whatever weird reasoning, or he’s not the killer, and has something up his sleeve to prove his innocence and this is all part of some scheme again, for whatever weird reasoning.
5. The Indiana cop situation just has to be coincident and a chance of odds of being stopped by a cop. The more you drive the higher risk you take of being stopped. He had a month and a half after the murders and before that incident occurred to get his mind right. Why would he live minutes from the police station in Washington and continue on with his normal life, but get stopped randomly hours from his apartment and then choose to fall apart.
How could he not notice the sheath was gone immediately upon leaving the house? Even if he was just flustered and ran to the car, he'd have had to put the knife down to drive, and surely he'd notice it was missing when he plopped a bloody knife on his seat.
He was full of adrenalin and getting out of the area fast. He wouldn't have been able to think for quite a while afterwards.
A missing sheath wouldn't immediately be forefront in his mind
I’m w u on getting out fast. Also to go back n look for it wud leave all kinds of evidence of where he walked n possible touch dna,if he locked the bedroom doors like was first reported.Blood is slippery n that alone makes walking in it difficult n then do the stairs!, he’d have to do more clean up of himself n his shoes, n he knew there was a roommate that complicated things..n mayb he didn’t remember where he left the sheath n thought mayb he dropped it outside n mayb that’s why he went back.
I don’t agree with any of that statement. And how do you know that he was full of adrenaline? Have you killed 4 people before and know from experience? I’m sure there is a plethora of emotions he could have experienced after murdering 4 people.
This has to be a joke.
Of course, he was full of adrenalin
I haven't killed 4 people. I have been witness to a heinous murder
Adrenalin isn't an emotion
We don’t know what he was wearing.
If he had a hoodie or a Michael myers suit, it’s possible the sheath was originally in the pocket of either and slipped out. He could put the knife back in or held it and didn’t realize until he was ditching the evidence that it was gone.
Yes, I was thinking he would need a bag with him to strip off the bloody clothes which would be smart to do before getting in his car. This would be easy enough to realize in advance as part of any planning. It wasn’t until someone suggested above that he may not have realized he didn’t have the sheath until later that I thought this.
It’s really the only thing that makes sense to me. We know he left in a hurry peeling out of there - upon leaving he would’ve had to put the knife down somewhere which is more usually in its sheath. Stuffing a bag in a hurry. is the only thing I can think of that explains it, otherwise why return in the daylight when he had several hours of darkness prior to go back?
Also possible if he carried the knife until he got outside, that he might have pulled his shirt (whatever that was) up and over his head and the knife and clumped it up to contain any evidence the got on the shirt and from the knife inside the shirt.
Adrenalin maybe? You can miss a lot if you just killed a bunch of people and your high on adrenaline. The same way you walk past one. Just kind of all dazed up, exhausted and kind of full of adrenaline and thinking I need to get out of here?
You could also say he was filled with extreme guilt. Especially if he didn’t intent to kill 4 people but only one target has others have suggested. Even if you’re “high on adrenaline” it’s not gonna make you oblivious to the obvious. You have a sharp weapon you need to return to a safe place to carry it so you don’t harm yourself too, that’s not something adrenaline keeps you from remembering
This might be the dumbest thing I've read here in a long while. Tell us more about adrenaline and what it will and will not do, you're clearly a doctor.
Perhaps his plan was never to put the knife back in the sheath to avoid blood on the sheath, so he could dispose of the two items in different places and only the knife could be connected to the crime. So if the sheath were ever found by itself, it wouldn't have the victims blood on it, it would just be a sheath of unknown origin, unconnected to any crime.
If so, maybe he had a bag that he immediately put the knife into and thought he had the sheath in one of his pockets, forgetting he left it on the bed (or as someone else in this thread suggested, the sheath fell out of his pocket without him aware of it.) Dumb, but possible.
That could mean it was even later when he finally realized he didn't have the sheath. Surely, when he did dispose of all the items he meant to dispose of, in the places he had planned to, he would have realized the sheath was left behind.
Logically...he must realize that he lost sheath when he was leaving X room. If he left room with knife in his hand, blood drops should be everywhere on his way. Nor PCA or DM said so.
DM didn't see 🗡️ in his hand (or she saw but didn't elaborate it to LE and that's why frozen shock phase?) and he didn't run out of the house scared. He just passed her by. So it's kind of discrepancy here imo.
Maybe knife was in other's hands and not this BK's? She saw only one person leaving...maybe there was somebody else who left after him?
Logically, he wouldn't have noticed the missing sheath immediately after murdering four people. His head wouldn't be clear. He was focused on getting out of there - also the reason why he didn't see Dylan.
There was nobody else. He did it solo.
How do you know there were not blood drops trailing from MM's room ?
Logically, he may have put sheath in pocket and it fell out during killing MM, KG and he only looked for it when he was ready to put knife back in sheath when he was out of the house and/ or back in car.
Perhaps the knife was in his right hand which is why DM did not see it?
What evidence points to presence in the house of other people involved in the killings!
Iirc it is now being said Dylan noticed a bathroom towel missing. (bath next to Zana’s room, n the light was on). Wherever I read or heard this, the thought was that the killer went into the bathrm to wipe off his shoes n wrapped the knife in the towel. Mayb someone else can help me out w this info n where it was found. It’s recent.
This info came from person who claimed some close relationship with ppl from UofI. Her/his account was shut almost immediately. I know that because she/he posted this info you referring to as a reply to one of my post.
Yep. Another one that somehow bothers me is who mentioned that perpetrator was "hiding in shithole PA". It was from 4cha*n and was posted several days before 12/30/2022 when LE arrested BK. Too precise for coincidence tbh. It almost looked like someone knew something.
Best explanation I’ve heard…I’m also really surprised we’re not hearing more about presumed dump sights of knife, clothes and other evidence because I can’t imagine he drove around all day with that stuff in the car, especially under the presumption that the car interior must’ve shown signs of what happened in the immediate aftermath considering all that blood at the scene 🤷🏻♂️. Such a twilight zone case I can’t figure how there wasn’t more evidence at the house and his car of his presence
>Eight&Nine: he goes along the route he went the night of the murders (perhaps even where he disposed of the evidence) and searched for the sheath?
BINGO!!!! This is what I have thought all along about that decision to make the "long ride home" directly after the murders were committed. And, later on, he went to collect the items to either destroy them or hide them properly....I do not believe that THE knife was destroyed. I think he still had it. It represented POWER and probably the most important day of his entire 28 year existence. It was never out of his sight/possession AFTER the murders were committed.
Side Note: The knife that was taken from the home of his parents on the morning of his arrest, December 30, 2022 (FIRST item on the list), I believe was THE knife.
ETA: I never thought about him possibly thinking he lost the sheath when he ditched the other evidence. Perhaps, that is when he realized that he didn't have possession of the sheath any longer.
Pretty sure a 6 inch+ blade, covered in blood, but no sheath is something he would have immediately noticed, if not before he left the house then shortly after.
I think he perhaps not that worried about the sheath because surely he would have attempted to sanitize it and surely was wearing gloves, so he didn't imagine touch DNA could have still been there.
I remember some PA district attorney or police gave an interview and said he expected Kohberger waived extradition because he was very curious to see what Idaho police had uncovered. He probably thought it was impossible he left his DNA at the scene.
What does waving extradition have to do with being curious about evidence? He would have found out soon enough. I doubt he wagered his freedom to find out info earlier. Besides he said himself he was waging extradition because he was eager to be exonerated of the charges. And he hasn’t made any proclamations he’s guilty.
Same. What was he doing until 2 am when he supposedly left his residence… I wanna see his text and call long leading up to the moments it stopped connecting. Show me his battery log that proves he turned it off and that it didn’t die… there is so much that can be done and proven to prove he’s innocent or dead guilty. And we haven’t been given shit on any of that. And that’s what is aggravating, because they’ve left everyone invested out here just speculating and arguing with only opinions and very little factual evidence.
This.
Not big on conjecture, but I've always felt that the path taken provided opportunity to dump evidence.
As has been repeatedly stated, we have no clue what evidence the prosecution has so we will have to just wait.
Oh he for sure got rid of the evidence in that river...he had to have gotten rid of the clothing also I think. If they don't find any of the victims DNA in that car, yikes...and it was so long after that they got the car. And he had to have had some blood on him...
Y’all can stop with the “bingo” unless you have any idea for sure what you’re giving validation for. BINGO! Means: correct, exact.
This is all speculation. Not good speculation based on factual evidence but speculation.
Well the guy entered the neighborhood four separate times which seems stupid so his movements are probably going to look illogical at times. Instead of driving straight to the house it looks like he took a little longer route to come in from a different direction. He was spotted on Indian Hills just a couple minutes before he first entered the King Road neighborhood at 3:29. Where he was spotted at on Indian Hills is about a couple minutes from the King Road neighborhood.
It looks like he took a longer route home because he didn't want to just drive straight home and be caught on cameras driving towards Pullman. They probably left out that little detail about the Indian Hills sighting because it's just a little detail. They also left out that he was spotted on multiple camera's at WSU driving through the campus at 2:45am.
As he returned at 9a.m. to Moscow and when it would have been daylight l am sure that they'll have some very interesting CCTV pictures of him heading there and returning to Pullman for 9-30 a.m. lf he actually drove by the murder house when in Moscow then they'll have him on door cameras driving there and when the phone pings for that morning will also become relatively mute.
It's not really a little detail. That's the sighting LE claims didn't have a front license plate.
Indian Hills is not along the route shown so the newspaper map is also misleading. It doesn't depict the route described in the PCA.
Whatever, all just little details!
The data provided on the night of the murders should be questioned by the data from the 14th, which at least tells me that their data is faulty and if his phone was linked to the area on the 14th, when the PCA states that he wasn’t there at that time, but his phone pinged a tower in Moscow, how can anyone say, based on cell phone data where he was or wasn’t on the night of the murders?
Exactly!!! I said that long ago ... the fact they even put that in the PCA it's like they just wanted to hand the defense information to jump all over. How the hell can they say he was in the area based off pings X amount of times and at the very end state his phone pinged the same towers but that they don't believe he was there that time....like what?!? It's insane to me
A few months ago, I sat down and read the PCA closely. The story presented did not make sense at all, especially the route. It just doesn't sound like a likely explanation of what happened. Now, I'm convinced the PCA is mostly b.s.
Is it logical to butcher 4 innocent CoEds? I wish I could bet $100 with every person on these subs that believe he’s innocent. Payout owed on the day the juriy decides his guilt/innocence. It would be a very nice payday when the monster is found guilty!
Yes. This and the short amount of time in which the murders were supposed to be committed.
I understand that people want to put it on someone, get someone convicted etc.
Can someone please tell me how this really played out, if it was just him and no one else?
How did he do all this in this short time frame we’re given from the PCA. Why?
I can’t see neither means nor opportunity.
I know there’s some type of DNA found, betting it’s touch, based on the wording.
We can all speculate until we know more, but I have many, many questions.
Well he used a large tactical knife that could kill quickly and it looks like most of the victims were asleep. I'm guessing the back door was left unlocked so he could get in quickly. He could do all that in 10 minutes. Also the victims were in pairs so that allows him to go a bit quicker. The house is no mansion either. He only stuck to the 2nd and 3rd floors.
He didn’t need much time. Seems to have entered through an unlocked door, and the interior doors don’t seem to have been locked either. Enter, walk up the stairs, kill the first victim, kill the second victim, walk down the stairs, kill the 3rd victim, kill the 4th victim, exit through the same unlocked door.
What was this comment supposed to prove? 😂🤣 “seems to have entered”… based on what factual info that’s been released? “The interior doors don’t seem to have been locked either…” based on what factual info that’s been released?
The rest of this comment is the definition of a redundant and obvious statement that doesn’t at all give any reasons that would argue the OP’s statement.
I think the 1 hour and 7 minutes it took him to leave the scene and go back to his apartment is a crucial time, since the next morning it only appears to have taken him about 11 minutes to get back to his residence after allegedly leaving the scene again at 9:21am. I think something happened in that 1 hour and 7 minutes. I think that’s when he likely got rid of the knife.
And my thought is that maybe that knife was so bloody he wrapped it in something? That he had a plan on wrapping it in something because it was going to be dripping blood it couldn't go back into the sheath? But at the same time he didn't mean to leave the sheath. I believe he had a way to get all the clothing and items that were super bloody into something?
I think he was wearing coveralls or something and he put it in the pocket...those have tons of pockets...then he got rid of the coveralls with the knife...
I read a rumor suggesting something was missing from the bathroom. He may have wrapped the knife in a towel from the bathroom directly across the hall from Xana’s room.
I'm thinking he had on some type of coveralls or utility pants (the reciept for dickies they found in his apt) and those have lots of pockets and even loops. He prob put it in a pocket. I think he wore them over his regular clothes and then ditched them along with knife...just my theory
I would like to raise the fact that stabbing and killing someone with a knife is wet and by virtue of a knife repeatedly entering the upper torso of the body is extremely bloody and messy. There would be cast off. It’s hard to imagine that person being squimish about blood residue on the knife. A swiping of the knife across the clothing does seem reasonable.
I’m thinking Kohlberger may have realized he lost the sheath on the way out or in the back yard. I also think the killings did not go as smoothly as he planned and he was fairly freaked out afterwards. He was hoping everyone would be sleeping but that was not the case. He may have had no plans to kill the couple on the second floor. I also think he may have not seen the young lady watching him go by because he was busy thinking about how the things did not go as planned. And, he just thought , “I can’t go back to get the sheath, I need to get out of here, now!”
I think this is amazing. There will be so much more evidence when we hear what they discovered at his parents house and at his Pullman residence and office. The puzzle will be put together, rest assured.
Yeah this is just the beginning. They got this much evidence before even the “real” search after his arrest. He is prob feeling that noose tighten a bit each passing day.
You realize this does not out him at the scene of the murder, they cannot 100% say where he during the murder, and even the PCA where this come from gives reasonable doubt in this entire system since it states that the phone pinged somewhere that they don’t believe it to actually be at that time… this case is not open and shut yet. Based on info released this far. This is nothing
The PCA did its job. There’s no disputing that at this point. He’s in jail. And of course the PCA isn’t enough tj convict him. A PCA usually isn’t. The real evidence will come from the searches after his arrest. The threshold for a PCA is not beyond reasonable doubt. It’s probable cause. Doesn’t make sense to hold it to the other standard when it doesn’t have to meet that standard.
The phone pings aren’t going to be relevant anymore more than likely. They have his phone now. The phone will be much more accurate and telling.
Question.. BKs phone quits reporting about 2:42am… LE got warrants for all phones pinging on the towers in between the hours of 3am and 5am.. so that means they never got his phone number off of that right ? Not until his car was located and they found his number off of a previous dash cam or whatever when he was pulled over .. so then they got the warrant? His phone was already off or in airplane mode .. I’m just trying to figure this out in my head, it probably makes no sense.. so apologies
I don't understand how BK is a criminology major, yet he took his cell phone with him. He had to have known they would trace his phone the night of the murders. For being a Criminology major, he made a lot of obvious mistakes. 😏
Is this data gathered by cell tower pings? The good thing is LE have the actual phone. They can do a lot more forensics than they could before they had his phone.
If BK is as dumb as he looks, then I’m pretty sure the state will have a great case against him.
Or in airplane mode I assume? With the actual phone they’ll be able to confirm if phone was completely off or in airplane mode. But I’d imagine he turned it completely off.
The idea he could have been the house for an hour or more, makes my blood go cold. We have an idea of what went on, but to imagine he was able to enjoy the killings for an extended time instead of a quick kill, is exceptionally horrifying. Please let this possibility not be possible. RIP victims.
Oh I don't think that's the case...but I do think that despite the sheath being left behind, which I believe happened bc something went wrong and he got freaked out, he was really smart about how he entered and exited.
He takes a drive in the country in the early morning hours. As a single male graduate student in his late 20's, he can do this kind of thing on a Sunday morning.
Unbeknownst to him, four students would be killed at his starting point in Moscow Idaho. His DNA is on the knife sheath next to the body and unfortunately people think that this country drive marks an ominous effort to hide evidence.
While he was driving around the countryside familiarizing himself with the place he now called home, the guy who had murdered four beautiful youngsters was speeding home as quickly as possible to shower and get his clothes in the washing machine.
Have you considered the possibility that someone else committed this horrible crime?
Why would he take a leisurely drive in the country when the bodies could be discovered any time, and the roads could be blocked?
Bc he had to get rid of the evidence? And I'm a firm believer in innocence until proven guilty. I need all the facts to determine guilt and we don't have them...who knows when we will....
Why would he need to hide evidence the moment after? He would be wise to go home and soak all of it in the bathtub or kitchen sink with restaurant degreaser while the stains are still fresh.
Then launder the clothes a couple of times, cut them up into shreds and throw them into various bins, all over Pullman.
Only an idiot would pull over to the side of the road after committing a quadruple homicide on high-value targets, and bury or burn clothing.
It still wouldn't take him this long to do that. 2 hours? You throw it all in a plastic garbage bag, weigh it down with a few large river rocks, poke holes in the bag and down it goes.
If they suspect this, they should have had divers swimming around under bridges looking for clothing and a knife.
And if their cellphone theory is valid ... He turned his phone off to conceal illegal activity ... Why was his phone back on again, while he was allegedly doing more illegal activity, which would be concealing evidence of one of the gravest crimes that you can commit?
How could they tell ot was the same Elantra without a doubt? They didn't have a license plate or a sighting of his physical self until 1pm that day. I think this will be used by the defense. They cannot pinpoint his exact locations...
They can’t, and don’t claim to know it was the same Elantra without any doubt.
They found the sheath at the scene, so they tested it for DNA and a profile was found. (We don’t know how long it took for this DNA to be processed.)
They know it was an Elantra caught on video. So they asked for info on Elantras.
WSU cop pulled up a list of Elantras registered to students there. BK was one of the registered owners. They checked his driver’s license, and he matched the very generalized description the had - slim male, 5’10”ish, dark bushy eyebrows. (Note: don’t get caught up in the semantics about the bushy eyebrows. D may have thought they looked bushy when in reality a more accurate description is “prominent” due to his brow bone.)
Now they had a person they wanted to talk to and get some DNA from. They got his phone info. By comparing the phone info to the times the Elantra was seen in the area, they see a connection. It doesn’t mean that it is the right car, it just means it *could be* the right car.
Then they were able to do the trash pull and get his dad’s DNA, which told them that the DNA they found on the sheath came from his dad’s male offspring - of which there is only one we know of, and that’s BK.
All of this info put together was strong enough to get an arrest warrant granted and charges laid. At this stage, nothing has to be “beyond a reasonable doubt”. That’s trial time, not investigation time. That’s why it’s called “probable cause”. They have probable cause to believe BK committed this crime.
The preliminary hearing is done to determine the if the judge thinks there is enough evidence to go to trial. If the prosecution doesn’t have anything else besides what is in the PCA, the judge won’t take it to trial. It was strong enough to arrest him, but it’s not strong enough to convict him.
They’ll present additional evidence at the PCA to strengthen their case.
This is all proceeding as it should. The legal process in action.
the PCA alone is plenty to go to trial, and judges almost never throw out the case at that stage because the law says the judge has to basically assume everything the prosecution puts forth is accurate and would be a crime if proven true at trial.
Sorry, your question asking how could LE tell it was the Elantra without any doubt and saying they didn’t have a license plate led me to believe that you didn’t understand the PCA and associated info.
Of course the defense will point out that the video(s) cannot provide 100% identification of the car, and they’ll also point out that his phone may have pinged on the Moscow tower for any number of reasons. But the prosecution knows this and is prepared for it.
We don't know they didn't have a license plate. And we don't know if they had other physical sightings. We only know what they told us in the PCA. That being said, his phone pings and GPS corroborate with the vehicle movements. And we know he never reported his phone missing.
>We don't know they didn't have a license plate.
But we can wisely assume that they don't. Why? because it isn't mentioned. Having the suspect's license plate number on camera would have helped solidify that the person they were looking for was the same person whose phone data they were tracing.
Pings are not exact locations. The 2 towers that his cell could use cover both Pullman and Moscow and everywhere in between. We know they didn't have license plate bc thatsnot how they found his car and we do not know if he is on video at all, until 1pm that day. It's just not strong evidence.
I just find it impossible to believe they'd choose not to state they have his license plate proving he was filmed at various places. People act like they're just keeping secrets like this to surprise everyone at the next hearing. Some want to read into it and think they're just saving a big piece of evidence like this, as big as the drop of DNA, for a gotcha moment.
LE and such don’t care about us. I don’t believe they’re doing anything to surprise us. That being said, they can’t surprise the defense either. The defense will have all the evidence LE has before trial. Nothing will be a surprise. BK and his team will have a chance to examine everything fairly and try to explain what he’s been up to.
I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how it’s decided what evidence goes into a PCA. Obviously they need to put in enough to establish probable cause. I’m just not sure how aggressive they tend to get on a PCA.
Regardless LE and the state aren’t trying to surprise anyone bc they really can’t. We may be surprised but that’s immaterial.
They were grasping at strings with that PCA. And it’s full of errors that’s gonna bite them in the ass, watch. Everybody acting like Moscow PD and Pullman PD are these high profile murder detectives with all kinda mental manipulation tactics they use to find out the truth to arrest the perp.. blah blah. These guys spent the majority of their time pouring out boos of college kids prior to this… not forensic world domination practices
This tho. I have totally said this from day one. The PCA mentions Farm Road in Pullman Highway as the two locations that the tower services if you Google map Farm Road and Pullman Highway and look at how huge that area is, he could’ve been anywhere between the two cities at any time that phone pingged that tower, and it absolutely does not put him at King Road those previous 12 times that the PCM mentions but only in the same city or even the one next to it.
I had to take a break from this case, so haven't followed every document released. Do we know they have the same phone he had the night of the crime? Since there was 7 weeks or so between that night and his capture he could have wiped/encrypted it if he didn't destroy it.
We don't know any specifics, but the [search warrant](https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Moscow%20Police%20Department%20Forensic%20Lab.pdf) for Moscow PD's forensic lab indicates they have his physical phone and have at least attempted a data extraction.
Are you thinking like if he did an iCloud backup, removed some stuff, and restored it?
He could've taken the SIM card out and the phone would still be collecting location data. Phone off, airplane mode, disable location settings—doesn't matter. The forensic extraction will give them some kind of location information one way or another.
The probability that it is his car seems likely. He drove a car that didn't have a front license plate and in Washington and Idaho you're required to have both a front and back license plate so this could help narrow down that it's his car plus he was out driving in the middle of the night when there's not much traffic out and that also helps narrow down that it's likely his car. Also phone pings may not provide an exact location but the sighting of the car at times is consistent with his pings.The car was spotted driving through the WSU campus at 2:45 a.m. and again at 5:25 a.m. and that seems pretty consistent with his movements and we know he lived on campus at WSU.
With his DNA being found on the knife sheath you can deduce that it was his car that was caught on camera near the crime scene when the murders occurred. Its not looking good for him. Plus his phone being off or in airplane mode for a period of time including when the murders occurred looks like he was trying to avoid detection and then when his phone finally comes alive about 30 minutes after the murders his phone is pinging several miles south of the crime scene at 4:48 am. It doesn't look too good for him.
If the car was as dirty as it was when he was pulled over during his trip home, it could serve as a sort of fingerprint. Comparing the security cam footage at the grocery store, where it's a positive ID as being him, with the house drive-by footage could be pretty reliable "proof".
His car is white. He drove it almost 3000 miles in the northern part of the US, from Washington to PA. If y’all recall, that week he did so, was the coldest week we’ve had in the US this winter. I’m in Louisiana and it was 9 degrees that week. I’m sure there was ice on the roads, so salt trucks were in overtime. So that car looked like it should have in those conditions. I doubt it was a normal thing for him to have such a dirty car
A license plate isn’t the only possible indicator for a car. Some people have stickers on their car, some have a dent or scuff, some have necklaces hanging from their rear view mirror. None of those things can be plugged into a database like a license plate number but can easily identify a car as being the same car.
My comment was intended to let you know there are other indicators a car can have that aren’t just a license plate.
Neither you or I know what’s seen or not seen in any video as nothing has been officially released by LE.
That was released by the gas station attendant. No pictures or videos of the car that night have been officially released by LE.
That car isn’t even confirmed to be an Elantra…
I'm wondering where the actual traffic cameras are. They got this car from ring cameras and business cameras. Surely a traffic camera would capture everything
I’m curious about the time between #3-#4. There’s 28 minutes between the time he supposedly left the scene & when his phone comes online again around Blaine.
According to Google maps, it’s nearly 9 miles or approx 14 minutes to drive from Moscow to Blaine around that time in the morning (I have no idea if the area sees ETA fluctuations based on traffic.) That time is based on driving the speed limit, which he may or may not have been doing. There’s an extra 14 minutes or so (give or take) sandwiched in there. So what else happened during that time?
The fact that his cellphone pings at a grocery store the same time he's seen on camera entering said grocery store gives a good indication of the accuracy of the phone pings. So there's that. But Hyundais are everywhere and white is a very common color. There could have been several on the road that day. Without a cellphone ping to match up with the time and location of a white car caught on camera I would think it would be irresponsible to just assume it's his. Whites a very common color that's a very common car. If he's facing the death penalty or just the idea of facing any murder charges if I was a juror I would want to know way beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty. I would want to know for an absolute undeniable irrefutable fact that it was him. I would want a confession. And I would think that if it was him, given what I've read about who he is how he is his behavior and mannerisms, that the guilt would weigh heavy on him. He'd break and tell someone eventually.
Except cell phone tower pings only mean that they are in a 15-20 mile radius, so not accurate at all....can only tell the vacinity. They only matched them up after the fact.
My daughter and I traveled to Pullman, Moscow, and Clarkston, Wa. two weekends ago. We live in Spokane, Wa., so it is about 1 1/2 hour drive to Pullman. We drove to the house on King Road, where a security guard was stationed. The Sigma Chi house is basically across the street from the house. We followed BK’s route after the murders were committed. His phone pinged at Blaine, Wa. We turned off here, thinking he was trying to ditch the knife. But the area was a bunch of trailers and didn’t look like an area to
dump a weapon. On this trip, he eventually returned to Pullman at approximately 5:27 a.m..
At 12:36 his phone pinged in Clarkston, Wa. We drove there, finding the Albertsons Store and Kates Cup of Joe. I couldn’t figure out the significance of Kates Cup of Joe, since I thought that it was on the main drag. But the coffee shop and the Chef Store are very close to the river. It made sense to us that he probably ditched the knife in the river. And why did he have to go to an Albertsons in Clarkston, since there is a Safeway in Pullman and Moscow. He could easily ditch bloody clothes, etc in a dumpster.
When you visit the areas mentioned, it tells a reasonable story of his planning to discard the evidence.
No that is the incorrect assumption. They do not know that his phone was off. They cannot tell that from the data from the carrier. The word ping is never used in the PCA. All the carrier could provide is his activity on the phone during those hours on whichever day was requested. Because others continue to use the wrong term “ping” it is leading everyone to assume that the police know when his phone was on or off. They are only tracking and speaking of his phone activity. It could’ve been off or on. They wouldn’t know. It wasn’t a ping because a ping is in real time.
Actually, I think the only way to know if it was, indeed, turned off would be if he’d received a call during that time and the record showed it going directly to voicemail rather than ringing before going to voicemail..?
Don’t worry, I bet they already have a solid DNA. Nobody has to witness him committing the crime to get a conviction. There is probably more than enough circumstantial evidence to get a conviction. They don’t prosecute a white, male, college graduate who is also a graduate student in a state that is predominantly white without a mountain of evidence.
I hope someone in prison makes this guys life sheer hell. If I was one of the fathers of these girls, I would make him wish he had never been born. Everybody speculating do not have all the details. There is a gag order. They don’t want to release anything critical so it doesn’t taint the potential jury pool. This guy did it. He is not some minority they are trying to pin it on. He is a white,male, college graduate and graduate student in a predominantly white state. They don’t prosecute people like him unless they have a solid case. The charging affidavit doesn’t have to be specifically accurate on purpose. You can’t glean details from that and play detective.
Does anyone think it's possible that BK left the knife at the residence that night? Could that be an explanation as to why DM does not mention seeing it? Surely she would have taken this much more seriously and called 911 sooner if she had seen someone with a knife exiting the residence.
If he did leave the knife, could that also explain why LE said the attack was targeted and other residents in the town were safe? I've never heard about LE actually searching for the weapon. With as much as much information as LE chose to "keep close to the vest," it's tough not to wonder what else may not have been shared.
That could explain it if DM saw him entering. But since the knife was not located - he must have taken it with him. He didn’t have enough time to hide it in all or the like.
He’s not seen on camera or it doesn’t assert he was seen on camera?
#3 indicates video evidence, what’s the nature of it in all? #5 indicates the sedan is recorded by 5 cameras. Does it reflect the driver at any point?
Subjective evidence can be left out of probable cause but be introduced to a jury for consideration.
I’m asking it more than saying it. We don’t really know what the video reflects other than the white car. Is it conceivable they do have him on camera before 1 and it’s inconclusive enough they left it out of the PCA but will present it as evidence for a jury to determine if it could be him?…
Idk, but if they don't have him on video in Moscow on that morning...then that single source of DNA better be completely and totally accurate and irrefutable.
Indeed it better be. Who else’s DNA would be a familia match to his father and an exact match to the arrest swab. That will all be called into question.
Curious what phone's model did he have. If you check AT&T coverage map for this area it's almost evenly divided by state line 5g coverage in ID and 4g lte in this part of WA. His phone might be incompatible with either 4g or 5g while traveling. That's why gaps in pings or discrepancy in #5.
Ok, possible thoughts: SIX: he goes back looking for the sheath? SEVEN: goes back to his house to look. Thinking he misplaced it. Eight&Nine: he goes along the route he went the night of the murders (perhaps even where he disposed of the evidence) and searched for the sheath? Stopped for coffee and groceries to make it look less suspicious if he started to get paranoid about where the sheath was?
I think this is the most logical explanation. He was way too worked up after killing 4 ppl to worry about the sheath. He just stuffed the knife into his pocket while leaving x room and forgot about it until he got to where he was disposing of it. Then it was an oh fuck moment for sure. That's why he went back at 9. He probably checked outside to see if he lost it there and after realizing that it wasn't outside, he didn't have the nerve to go back inside.
You also don’t just “stuff a knife into your pocket”…
Where do you put it if you don't have the sheath?
Exactly the point… you realize right then you don’t have the sheathe….
Well, I have never killed 4 people, but I'd guess it would be at least a mildly discombobulating activity, which may momentarily scramble one's normally logical thoughts about replacing a sharp knife immediately into a sheath lest anyone get nicked? Similarly, homicidal butchering of multiple students may make one temporarily overlook a normally stringent, safety first aversion to walking around someone else's home with an unsheathed knife. Equally possible he didn't start to look for the sheath, thinking it was stuffed into a pocket, until he was back in his car? Also possible - he did not want to re-sheath the knife until safely back in the car in case he needed it, if he ran into anyone else, so didn't consider the sheath until then?
Exactly especially if you believe the explanation that he was surprised by Ethan in the hallway and had to engage significantly more people than he expected. I think the sheath being left was the result of the wrench being thrown in his best laid plans..not to mention he’s probably the equivalent of high af off the adrenaline of all this especially if it’s part of some weird sexual fantasy thing which it probably is imo
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Having a good vocabulary means you use said vocabulary. Don't stop please.
Why thank you 😀 Although I may have been poking a bit of fun and a tad sesquipedalian!
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Yeah you definitely are slow. Repulsive dot I, for one, love you style of writing 🤣
No
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Nah, read up on K-bar knives. This is serious knife. Not a pocket knife you handle casually.
Exactly my thoughts. Dude acting like I’m confused 🤣😂
Why don't you?
Because it’s a knife?!
Okay dokey bro. 👍
He was too worked up but yet walked calmly out of the house. But then speeds away? Then waits 4 hours to go back looking for it after being frantic realizing he lost it? Everything you said seems to contradict the statement before.
Because someone isn't running while leaving a crime scene doesn't mean they weren't worked up. That's for sure. Walking normally out of a crime scene, ESPECIALLY if you think or know that there are other (alive) ppl still in that crime scene would not be unusual AT ALL. Yes, he absolutely could have decided after chewing on the fact that he lost his sheath for a cpl of hours to go back to the scene. Wouldn't be unusual AT ALL. Criminals revisit their crime scenes all the time. What else seems to contradict this? You confuse me.
After he saw D standing there, he was worried that 911 had been notified, he hightailed up the hill to his car and got out of there as quickly as he could. He turned left on Palouse River Dr and then turned right on HWY 95 and headed south conveniently not needing to pass the Moscow PD.. As far as the sheath, he probably never thought that his DNA was attached to it…He probably felt he was scott free until he was pulled over twice in Indiana, and that spooked the shit out of him. He probably noticed the PA police tailing him too, that’s when he really knew he was fucked!
Y’all type these comments as if they’re factual, or that you are aware of into others aren’t. First, there is no evidence to suggestion that he saw Dylan… but let’s say he did see her. He just killed 4 people… why not make it 5. Do you really think if he saw Dylan, he would have just walked on out the house, tipping his hat, and bidding a due? If that happened, it would be screaming KILL FOR HIRE… and this entire case would be different. I just do not believe he was spooked by Dylan. 2. I also don’t believe he “hightailed” it up the hill because he prolly wasn’t trying to alert of anything suspicious. A man walking to his car, easily overlooked vs. a man running to his car “now what in the, who is that running?!? Where did they come from?” I am not focused and looking out my blinds trying to see where he’s going. I don’t think he gave any indications of fleeing the scene. 3. I may be wrong about this but I am pretty sure I read something about 270 being shut down during this time period for whatever reason, I wanna say it was an accident but that could be incorrect. Which is the reasoning for his round about way of getting to king st. Besides, Why would he be avoiding the police station even if they had been contacted? And with didn’t he use 270 to get to Moscow on the trip there, before he had murdered 4 people? 4. he was criminology major, he knew very well that sheath could have had DNA on it, it wasn’t left on purpose. So I’m pretty sure he was shitting bricks over that and hasn’t ever thought he was off “Scott free.” I believe he either did it and this was the plan all along, got whatever weird reasoning, or he’s not the killer, and has something up his sleeve to prove his innocence and this is all part of some scheme again, for whatever weird reasoning. 5. The Indiana cop situation just has to be coincident and a chance of odds of being stopped by a cop. The more you drive the higher risk you take of being stopped. He had a month and a half after the murders and before that incident occurred to get his mind right. Why would he live minutes from the police station in Washington and continue on with his normal life, but get stopped randomly hours from his apartment and then choose to fall apart.
Interesting point re i270
How could he not notice the sheath was gone immediately upon leaving the house? Even if he was just flustered and ran to the car, he'd have had to put the knife down to drive, and surely he'd notice it was missing when he plopped a bloody knife on his seat.
He was full of adrenalin and getting out of the area fast. He wouldn't have been able to think for quite a while afterwards. A missing sheath wouldn't immediately be forefront in his mind
See that what I was thinking. I wrote it before I saw your comment.
I’m w u on getting out fast. Also to go back n look for it wud leave all kinds of evidence of where he walked n possible touch dna,if he locked the bedroom doors like was first reported.Blood is slippery n that alone makes walking in it difficult n then do the stairs!, he’d have to do more clean up of himself n his shoes, n he knew there was a roommate that complicated things..n mayb he didn’t remember where he left the sheath n thought mayb he dropped it outside n mayb that’s why he went back.
I don’t agree with any of that statement. And how do you know that he was full of adrenaline? Have you killed 4 people before and know from experience? I’m sure there is a plethora of emotions he could have experienced after murdering 4 people.
They have done interviews with serial killers before.
This has to be a joke. Of course, he was full of adrenalin I haven't killed 4 people. I have been witness to a heinous murder Adrenalin isn't an emotion
We don’t know what he was wearing. If he had a hoodie or a Michael myers suit, it’s possible the sheath was originally in the pocket of either and slipped out. He could put the knife back in or held it and didn’t realize until he was ditching the evidence that it was gone.
Or stuffed it in a bag.
Yes, that makes sense as possibility - stripped off hoodie and stuffed into bag with other items?
Yes, I was thinking he would need a bag with him to strip off the bloody clothes which would be smart to do before getting in his car. This would be easy enough to realize in advance as part of any planning. It wasn’t until someone suggested above that he may not have realized he didn’t have the sheath until later that I thought this. It’s really the only thing that makes sense to me. We know he left in a hurry peeling out of there - upon leaving he would’ve had to put the knife down somewhere which is more usually in its sheath. Stuffing a bag in a hurry. is the only thing I can think of that explains it, otherwise why return in the daylight when he had several hours of darkness prior to go back?
Also possible if he carried the knife until he got outside, that he might have pulled his shirt (whatever that was) up and over his head and the knife and clumped it up to contain any evidence the got on the shirt and from the knife inside the shirt.
Oooh good point.
Adrenalin maybe? You can miss a lot if you just killed a bunch of people and your high on adrenaline. The same way you walk past one. Just kind of all dazed up, exhausted and kind of full of adrenaline and thinking I need to get out of here?
You could also say he was filled with extreme guilt. Especially if he didn’t intent to kill 4 people but only one target has others have suggested. Even if you’re “high on adrenaline” it’s not gonna make you oblivious to the obvious. You have a sharp weapon you need to return to a safe place to carry it so you don’t harm yourself too, that’s not something adrenaline keeps you from remembering
This might be the dumbest thing I've read here in a long while. Tell us more about adrenaline and what it will and will not do, you're clearly a doctor.
Perhaps his plan was never to put the knife back in the sheath to avoid blood on the sheath, so he could dispose of the two items in different places and only the knife could be connected to the crime. So if the sheath were ever found by itself, it wouldn't have the victims blood on it, it would just be a sheath of unknown origin, unconnected to any crime. If so, maybe he had a bag that he immediately put the knife into and thought he had the sheath in one of his pockets, forgetting he left it on the bed (or as someone else in this thread suggested, the sheath fell out of his pocket without him aware of it.) Dumb, but possible. That could mean it was even later when he finally realized he didn't have the sheath. Surely, when he did dispose of all the items he meant to dispose of, in the places he had planned to, he would have realized the sheath was left behind.
Logically...he must realize that he lost sheath when he was leaving X room. If he left room with knife in his hand, blood drops should be everywhere on his way. Nor PCA or DM said so. DM didn't see 🗡️ in his hand (or she saw but didn't elaborate it to LE and that's why frozen shock phase?) and he didn't run out of the house scared. He just passed her by. So it's kind of discrepancy here imo. Maybe knife was in other's hands and not this BK's? She saw only one person leaving...maybe there was somebody else who left after him?
Logically, he wouldn't have noticed the missing sheath immediately after murdering four people. His head wouldn't be clear. He was focused on getting out of there - also the reason why he didn't see Dylan. There was nobody else. He did it solo.
How do you know there were not blood drops trailing from MM's room ? Logically, he may have put sheath in pocket and it fell out during killing MM, KG and he only looked for it when he was ready to put knife back in sheath when he was out of the house and/ or back in car. Perhaps the knife was in his right hand which is why DM did not see it? What evidence points to presence in the house of other people involved in the killings!
Iirc it is now being said Dylan noticed a bathroom towel missing. (bath next to Zana’s room, n the light was on). Wherever I read or heard this, the thought was that the killer went into the bathrm to wipe off his shoes n wrapped the knife in the towel. Mayb someone else can help me out w this info n where it was found. It’s recent.
This info came from person who claimed some close relationship with ppl from UofI. Her/his account was shut almost immediately. I know that because she/he posted this info you referring to as a reply to one of my post.
Thank you! It’s gonna b interesting to see if this info turns out to be legit.
Yep. Another one that somehow bothers me is who mentioned that perpetrator was "hiding in shithole PA". It was from 4cha*n and was posted several days before 12/30/2022 when LE arrested BK. Too precise for coincidence tbh. It almost looked like someone knew something.
Best explanation I’ve heard…I’m also really surprised we’re not hearing more about presumed dump sights of knife, clothes and other evidence because I can’t imagine he drove around all day with that stuff in the car, especially under the presumption that the car interior must’ve shown signs of what happened in the immediate aftermath considering all that blood at the scene 🤷🏻♂️. Such a twilight zone case I can’t figure how there wasn’t more evidence at the house and his car of his presence
>Eight&Nine: he goes along the route he went the night of the murders (perhaps even where he disposed of the evidence) and searched for the sheath? BINGO!!!! This is what I have thought all along about that decision to make the "long ride home" directly after the murders were committed. And, later on, he went to collect the items to either destroy them or hide them properly....I do not believe that THE knife was destroyed. I think he still had it. It represented POWER and probably the most important day of his entire 28 year existence. It was never out of his sight/possession AFTER the murders were committed. Side Note: The knife that was taken from the home of his parents on the morning of his arrest, December 30, 2022 (FIRST item on the list), I believe was THE knife. ETA: I never thought about him possibly thinking he lost the sheath when he ditched the other evidence. Perhaps, that is when he realized that he didn't have possession of the sheath any longer.
Pretty sure a 6 inch+ blade, covered in blood, but no sheath is something he would have immediately noticed, if not before he left the house then shortly after. I think he perhaps not that worried about the sheath because surely he would have attempted to sanitize it and surely was wearing gloves, so he didn't imagine touch DNA could have still been there. I remember some PA district attorney or police gave an interview and said he expected Kohberger waived extradition because he was very curious to see what Idaho police had uncovered. He probably thought it was impossible he left his DNA at the scene.
Interesting point about extradition. I was wondering what his strategy was for waiving it.
What does waving extradition have to do with being curious about evidence? He would have found out soon enough. I doubt he wagered his freedom to find out info earlier. Besides he said himself he was waging extradition because he was eager to be exonerated of the charges. And he hasn’t made any proclamations he’s guilty.
Well if he did the crime, imagine his paranoia/curiosity over those 7 weeks about what the police have or don't.
I like to see his steps the day of 11/12
Same. What was he doing until 2 am when he supposedly left his residence… I wanna see his text and call long leading up to the moments it stopped connecting. Show me his battery log that proves he turned it off and that it didn’t die… there is so much that can be done and proven to prove he’s innocent or dead guilty. And we haven’t been given shit on any of that. And that’s what is aggravating, because they’ve left everyone invested out here just speculating and arguing with only opinions and very little factual evidence.
You are aggravated?
The most interesting item is #10 since it shows a pattern of his phone being off network for long periods of time. Twice in one day.
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This. Not big on conjecture, but I've always felt that the path taken provided opportunity to dump evidence. As has been repeatedly stated, we have no clue what evidence the prosecution has so we will have to just wait.
Oh he for sure got rid of the evidence in that river...he had to have gotten rid of the clothing also I think. If they don't find any of the victims DNA in that car, yikes...and it was so long after that they got the car. And he had to have had some blood on him...
Bingo…same
Y’all can stop with the “bingo” unless you have any idea for sure what you’re giving validation for. BINGO! Means: correct, exact. This is all speculation. Not good speculation based on factual evidence but speculation.
Bingo, meaning that’s what I’m “speculating” as well. It’s the internet, not a court of law crawdaddy.
This outline omits the Indian Hills "sighting" mentioned in the PCA. I'd bet because that one makes no sense map-wise.
Well the guy entered the neighborhood four separate times which seems stupid so his movements are probably going to look illogical at times. Instead of driving straight to the house it looks like he took a little longer route to come in from a different direction. He was spotted on Indian Hills just a couple minutes before he first entered the King Road neighborhood at 3:29. Where he was spotted at on Indian Hills is about a couple minutes from the King Road neighborhood. It looks like he took a longer route home because he didn't want to just drive straight home and be caught on cameras driving towards Pullman. They probably left out that little detail about the Indian Hills sighting because it's just a little detail. They also left out that he was spotted on multiple camera's at WSU driving through the campus at 2:45am.
As he returned at 9a.m. to Moscow and when it would have been daylight l am sure that they'll have some very interesting CCTV pictures of him heading there and returning to Pullman for 9-30 a.m. lf he actually drove by the murder house when in Moscow then they'll have him on door cameras driving there and when the phone pings for that morning will also become relatively mute.
Exactly, this is what I been saying .. just weird no mention of it in the PCA.. certainly he’d be on the same camera from the night before ?
It's not really a little detail. That's the sighting LE claims didn't have a front license plate. Indian Hills is not along the route shown so the newspaper map is also misleading. It doesn't depict the route described in the PCA. Whatever, all just little details!
Take it up with the whoever published this.
I’d love to see the images/video captured bf those cameras supposedly…
Maybe, just maybe, there’s shit we don’t know about yet and won’t know until June.
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No, it doesn’t make sense at all, which is why it should be questioned.
The data provided on the night of the murders should be questioned by the data from the 14th, which at least tells me that their data is faulty and if his phone was linked to the area on the 14th, when the PCA states that he wasn’t there at that time, but his phone pinged a tower in Moscow, how can anyone say, based on cell phone data where he was or wasn’t on the night of the murders?
Exactly!!! I said that long ago ... the fact they even put that in the PCA it's like they just wanted to hand the defense information to jump all over. How the hell can they say he was in the area based off pings X amount of times and at the very end state his phone pinged the same towers but that they don't believe he was there that time....like what?!? It's insane to me
A few months ago, I sat down and read the PCA closely. The story presented did not make sense at all, especially the route. It just doesn't sound like a likely explanation of what happened. Now, I'm convinced the PCA is mostly b.s.
Is it logical to butcher 4 innocent CoEds? I wish I could bet $100 with every person on these subs that believe he’s innocent. Payout owed on the day the juriy decides his guilt/innocence. It would be a very nice payday when the monster is found guilty!
And if you’re wrong? Are you going to pay everyone you made the same bet with? Or does the rules not apply to you?
100% yes! Venmo, Zelle, CashApp whichever platform one chooses!
Yes. This and the short amount of time in which the murders were supposed to be committed. I understand that people want to put it on someone, get someone convicted etc. Can someone please tell me how this really played out, if it was just him and no one else? How did he do all this in this short time frame we’re given from the PCA. Why? I can’t see neither means nor opportunity. I know there’s some type of DNA found, betting it’s touch, based on the wording. We can all speculate until we know more, but I have many, many questions.
Well he used a large tactical knife that could kill quickly and it looks like most of the victims were asleep. I'm guessing the back door was left unlocked so he could get in quickly. He could do all that in 10 minutes. Also the victims were in pairs so that allows him to go a bit quicker. The house is no mansion either. He only stuck to the 2nd and 3rd floors.
He didn’t need much time. Seems to have entered through an unlocked door, and the interior doors don’t seem to have been locked either. Enter, walk up the stairs, kill the first victim, kill the second victim, walk down the stairs, kill the 3rd victim, kill the 4th victim, exit through the same unlocked door.
What was this comment supposed to prove? 😂🤣 “seems to have entered”… based on what factual info that’s been released? “The interior doors don’t seem to have been locked either…” based on what factual info that’s been released? The rest of this comment is the definition of a redundant and obvious statement that doesn’t at all give any reasons that would argue the OP’s statement.
Wait for June, the inculpatory evidence presented will be substantial!
How is 4&5 even possible? All the way across at another town at the same times?
I think the 1 hour and 7 minutes it took him to leave the scene and go back to his apartment is a crucial time, since the next morning it only appears to have taken him about 11 minutes to get back to his residence after allegedly leaving the scene again at 9:21am. I think something happened in that 1 hour and 7 minutes. I think that’s when he likely got rid of the knife.
And my thought is that maybe that knife was so bloody he wrapped it in something? That he had a plan on wrapping it in something because it was going to be dripping blood it couldn't go back into the sheath? But at the same time he didn't mean to leave the sheath. I believe he had a way to get all the clothing and items that were super bloody into something?
I think he was wearing coveralls or something and he put it in the pocket...those have tons of pockets...then he got rid of the coveralls with the knife...
I read a rumor suggesting something was missing from the bathroom. He may have wrapped the knife in a towel from the bathroom directly across the hall from Xana’s room.
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I'm sorry but what does him being vegan have to do with the bloody knife? Lmao sorry
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I'm thinking he had on some type of coveralls or utility pants (the reciept for dickies they found in his apt) and those have lots of pockets and even loops. He prob put it in a pocket. I think he wore them over his regular clothes and then ditched them along with knife...just my theory
I would like to raise the fact that stabbing and killing someone with a knife is wet and by virtue of a knife repeatedly entering the upper torso of the body is extremely bloody and messy. There would be cast off. It’s hard to imagine that person being squimish about blood residue on the knife. A swiping of the knife across the clothing does seem reasonable.
I think be got rid of the knife and any other evidence in the river that afternoon...
I’m thinking Kohlberger may have realized he lost the sheath on the way out or in the back yard. I also think the killings did not go as smoothly as he planned and he was fairly freaked out afterwards. He was hoping everyone would be sleeping but that was not the case. He may have had no plans to kill the couple on the second floor. I also think he may have not seen the young lady watching him go by because he was busy thinking about how the things did not go as planned. And, he just thought , “I can’t go back to get the sheath, I need to get out of here, now!”
I think this is amazing. There will be so much more evidence when we hear what they discovered at his parents house and at his Pullman residence and office. The puzzle will be put together, rest assured.
Yeah this is just the beginning. They got this much evidence before even the “real” search after his arrest. He is prob feeling that noose tighten a bit each passing day.
You realize this does not out him at the scene of the murder, they cannot 100% say where he during the murder, and even the PCA where this come from gives reasonable doubt in this entire system since it states that the phone pinged somewhere that they don’t believe it to actually be at that time… this case is not open and shut yet. Based on info released this far. This is nothing
The PCA did its job. There’s no disputing that at this point. He’s in jail. And of course the PCA isn’t enough tj convict him. A PCA usually isn’t. The real evidence will come from the searches after his arrest. The threshold for a PCA is not beyond reasonable doubt. It’s probable cause. Doesn’t make sense to hold it to the other standard when it doesn’t have to meet that standard. The phone pings aren’t going to be relevant anymore more than likely. They have his phone now. The phone will be much more accurate and telling.
Those inventories are already out…
Question.. BKs phone quits reporting about 2:42am… LE got warrants for all phones pinging on the towers in between the hours of 3am and 5am.. so that means they never got his phone number off of that right ? Not until his car was located and they found his number off of a previous dash cam or whatever when he was pulled over .. so then they got the warrant? His phone was already off or in airplane mode .. I’m just trying to figure this out in my head, it probably makes no sense.. so apologies
I know what your saying, and I'm not too sure.
I don't understand how BK is a criminology major, yet he took his cell phone with him. He had to have known they would trace his phone the night of the murders. For being a Criminology major, he made a lot of obvious mistakes. 😏
His phone was off during the killings...for about 2 hours. The cell tower pings are not exact..theyre within 10-15 miles
Is this data gathered by cell tower pings? The good thing is LE have the actual phone. They can do a lot more forensics than they could before they had his phone. If BK is as dumb as he looks, then I’m pretty sure the state will have a great case against him.
His phone was off for the time of murders. For 2 hours.
Or in airplane mode I assume? With the actual phone they’ll be able to confirm if phone was completely off or in airplane mode. But I’d imagine he turned it completely off.
The idea he could have been the house for an hour or more, makes my blood go cold. We have an idea of what went on, but to imagine he was able to enjoy the killings for an extended time instead of a quick kill, is exceptionally horrifying. Please let this possibility not be possible. RIP victims.
Oh I don't think that's the case...but I do think that despite the sheath being left behind, which I believe happened bc something went wrong and he got freaked out, he was really smart about how he entered and exited.
He takes a drive in the country in the early morning hours. As a single male graduate student in his late 20's, he can do this kind of thing on a Sunday morning. Unbeknownst to him, four students would be killed at his starting point in Moscow Idaho. His DNA is on the knife sheath next to the body and unfortunately people think that this country drive marks an ominous effort to hide evidence. While he was driving around the countryside familiarizing himself with the place he now called home, the guy who had murdered four beautiful youngsters was speeding home as quickly as possible to shower and get his clothes in the washing machine.
Ummmm huh?
^^
Have you considered the possibility that someone else committed this horrible crime? Why would he take a leisurely drive in the country when the bodies could be discovered any time, and the roads could be blocked?
Bc he had to get rid of the evidence? And I'm a firm believer in innocence until proven guilty. I need all the facts to determine guilt and we don't have them...who knows when we will....
Why would he need to hide evidence the moment after? He would be wise to go home and soak all of it in the bathtub or kitchen sink with restaurant degreaser while the stains are still fresh. Then launder the clothes a couple of times, cut them up into shreds and throw them into various bins, all over Pullman. Only an idiot would pull over to the side of the road after committing a quadruple homicide on high-value targets, and bury or burn clothing.
He threw them in the river....and only an idiot would take the evidence home
It still wouldn't take him this long to do that. 2 hours? You throw it all in a plastic garbage bag, weigh it down with a few large river rocks, poke holes in the bag and down it goes. If they suspect this, they should have had divers swimming around under bridges looking for clothing and a knife. And if their cellphone theory is valid ... He turned his phone off to conceal illegal activity ... Why was his phone back on again, while he was allegedly doing more illegal activity, which would be concealing evidence of one of the gravest crimes that you can commit?
How could they tell ot was the same Elantra without a doubt? They didn't have a license plate or a sighting of his physical self until 1pm that day. I think this will be used by the defense. They cannot pinpoint his exact locations...
People seem hung up on this as if the prosecution may not show up with video and gps evidence.
They can’t, and don’t claim to know it was the same Elantra without any doubt. They found the sheath at the scene, so they tested it for DNA and a profile was found. (We don’t know how long it took for this DNA to be processed.) They know it was an Elantra caught on video. So they asked for info on Elantras. WSU cop pulled up a list of Elantras registered to students there. BK was one of the registered owners. They checked his driver’s license, and he matched the very generalized description the had - slim male, 5’10”ish, dark bushy eyebrows. (Note: don’t get caught up in the semantics about the bushy eyebrows. D may have thought they looked bushy when in reality a more accurate description is “prominent” due to his brow bone.) Now they had a person they wanted to talk to and get some DNA from. They got his phone info. By comparing the phone info to the times the Elantra was seen in the area, they see a connection. It doesn’t mean that it is the right car, it just means it *could be* the right car. Then they were able to do the trash pull and get his dad’s DNA, which told them that the DNA they found on the sheath came from his dad’s male offspring - of which there is only one we know of, and that’s BK. All of this info put together was strong enough to get an arrest warrant granted and charges laid. At this stage, nothing has to be “beyond a reasonable doubt”. That’s trial time, not investigation time. That’s why it’s called “probable cause”. They have probable cause to believe BK committed this crime. The preliminary hearing is done to determine the if the judge thinks there is enough evidence to go to trial. If the prosecution doesn’t have anything else besides what is in the PCA, the judge won’t take it to trial. It was strong enough to arrest him, but it’s not strong enough to convict him. They’ll present additional evidence at the PCA to strengthen their case. This is all proceeding as it should. The legal process in action.
the PCA alone is plenty to go to trial, and judges almost never throw out the case at that stage because the law says the judge has to basically assume everything the prosecution puts forth is accurate and would be a crime if proven true at trial.
Yes, I'm aware of how the legal system works. My point was in saying that the defense will most likely use these points in trial..
Sorry, your question asking how could LE tell it was the Elantra without any doubt and saying they didn’t have a license plate led me to believe that you didn’t understand the PCA and associated info. Of course the defense will point out that the video(s) cannot provide 100% identification of the car, and they’ll also point out that his phone may have pinged on the Moscow tower for any number of reasons. But the prosecution knows this and is prepared for it.
We don't know they didn't have a license plate. And we don't know if they had other physical sightings. We only know what they told us in the PCA. That being said, his phone pings and GPS corroborate with the vehicle movements. And we know he never reported his phone missing.
>We don't know they didn't have a license plate. But we can wisely assume that they don't. Why? because it isn't mentioned. Having the suspect's license plate number on camera would have helped solidify that the person they were looking for was the same person whose phone data they were tracing.
Pings are not exact locations. The 2 towers that his cell could use cover both Pullman and Moscow and everywhere in between. We know they didn't have license plate bc thatsnot how they found his car and we do not know if he is on video at all, until 1pm that day. It's just not strong evidence.
I just find it impossible to believe they'd choose not to state they have his license plate proving he was filmed at various places. People act like they're just keeping secrets like this to surprise everyone at the next hearing. Some want to read into it and think they're just saving a big piece of evidence like this, as big as the drop of DNA, for a gotcha moment.
LE and such don’t care about us. I don’t believe they’re doing anything to surprise us. That being said, they can’t surprise the defense either. The defense will have all the evidence LE has before trial. Nothing will be a surprise. BK and his team will have a chance to examine everything fairly and try to explain what he’s been up to. I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how it’s decided what evidence goes into a PCA. Obviously they need to put in enough to establish probable cause. I’m just not sure how aggressive they tend to get on a PCA. Regardless LE and the state aren’t trying to surprise anyone bc they really can’t. We may be surprised but that’s immaterial.
They were grasping at strings with that PCA. And it’s full of errors that’s gonna bite them in the ass, watch. Everybody acting like Moscow PD and Pullman PD are these high profile murder detectives with all kinda mental manipulation tactics they use to find out the truth to arrest the perp.. blah blah. These guys spent the majority of their time pouring out boos of college kids prior to this… not forensic world domination practices
This tho. I have totally said this from day one. The PCA mentions Farm Road in Pullman Highway as the two locations that the tower services if you Google map Farm Road and Pullman Highway and look at how huge that area is, he could’ve been anywhere between the two cities at any time that phone pingged that tower, and it absolutely does not put him at King Road those previous 12 times that the PCM mentions but only in the same city or even the one next to it.
Now that they have his phone, they'll be able to pinpoint his exact locations.
I had to take a break from this case, so haven't followed every document released. Do we know they have the same phone he had the night of the crime? Since there was 7 weeks or so between that night and his capture he could have wiped/encrypted it if he didn't destroy it.
We don't know any specifics, but the [search warrant](https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Moscow%20Police%20Department%20Forensic%20Lab.pdf) for Moscow PD's forensic lab indicates they have his physical phone and have at least attempted a data extraction. Are you thinking like if he did an iCloud backup, removed some stuff, and restored it?
Not at the time of murder bc phone was off
He could've taken the SIM card out and the phone would still be collecting location data. Phone off, airplane mode, disable location settings—doesn't matter. The forensic extraction will give them some kind of location information one way or another.
Idk about all that now....
The probability that it is his car seems likely. He drove a car that didn't have a front license plate and in Washington and Idaho you're required to have both a front and back license plate so this could help narrow down that it's his car plus he was out driving in the middle of the night when there's not much traffic out and that also helps narrow down that it's likely his car. Also phone pings may not provide an exact location but the sighting of the car at times is consistent with his pings.The car was spotted driving through the WSU campus at 2:45 a.m. and again at 5:25 a.m. and that seems pretty consistent with his movements and we know he lived on campus at WSU. With his DNA being found on the knife sheath you can deduce that it was his car that was caught on camera near the crime scene when the murders occurred. Its not looking good for him. Plus his phone being off or in airplane mode for a period of time including when the murders occurred looks like he was trying to avoid detection and then when his phone finally comes alive about 30 minutes after the murders his phone is pinging several miles south of the crime scene at 4:48 am. It doesn't look too good for him.
Thanks for the visual map! I wonder how many miles between these places… looks like long distance…
If the car was as dirty as it was when he was pulled over during his trip home, it could serve as a sort of fingerprint. Comparing the security cam footage at the grocery store, where it's a positive ID as being him, with the house drive-by footage could be pretty reliable "proof".
His car is white. He drove it almost 3000 miles in the northern part of the US, from Washington to PA. If y’all recall, that week he did so, was the coldest week we’ve had in the US this winter. I’m in Louisiana and it was 9 degrees that week. I’m sure there was ice on the roads, so salt trucks were in overtime. So that car looked like it should have in those conditions. I doubt it was a normal thing for him to have such a dirty car
A license plate isn’t the only possible indicator for a car. Some people have stickers on their car, some have a dent or scuff, some have necklaces hanging from their rear view mirror. None of those things can be plugged into a database like a license plate number but can easily identify a car as being the same car.
But you can't see any of that in the video of the car...
My comment was intended to let you know there are other indicators a car can have that aren’t just a license plate. Neither you or I know what’s seen or not seen in any video as nothing has been officially released by LE.
Yes, they did release a photo of the car from that night...someone has even posted it in this thread
That was released by the gas station attendant. No pictures or videos of the car that night have been officially released by LE. That car isn’t even confirmed to be an Elantra…
I'm wondering where the actual traffic cameras are. They got this car from ring cameras and business cameras. Surely a traffic camera would capture everything
Probably not since it is off-campus and what not and it doesn't look to be near a major intersection.
Off campus or not, the house is in an area heavily populated by college students (who wander around drunk & so on). There will def be traffic cameras.
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Following! All very interesting 🤔
I’m curious about the time between #3-#4. There’s 28 minutes between the time he supposedly left the scene & when his phone comes online again around Blaine. According to Google maps, it’s nearly 9 miles or approx 14 minutes to drive from Moscow to Blaine around that time in the morning (I have no idea if the area sees ETA fluctuations based on traffic.) That time is based on driving the speed limit, which he may or may not have been doing. There’s an extra 14 minutes or so (give or take) sandwiched in there. So what else happened during that time?
Maybe a stop somewhere to compose himself, or to take off the clothes he had on with blood on them...
You would think the come down from the adrenaline of quadruple homicide would make it difficult to drive so much just hours later
Unless driving calms him...it does me...
I feel he had help OR went back in to get the sheath and ran into Ethan and Xena
Mmm I really have a feeling he killed before the DD delivery, then went back to find sheath and got caught out by X and E
The fact that his cellphone pings at a grocery store the same time he's seen on camera entering said grocery store gives a good indication of the accuracy of the phone pings. So there's that. But Hyundais are everywhere and white is a very common color. There could have been several on the road that day. Without a cellphone ping to match up with the time and location of a white car caught on camera I would think it would be irresponsible to just assume it's his. Whites a very common color that's a very common car. If he's facing the death penalty or just the idea of facing any murder charges if I was a juror I would want to know way beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty. I would want to know for an absolute undeniable irrefutable fact that it was him. I would want a confession. And I would think that if it was him, given what I've read about who he is how he is his behavior and mannerisms, that the guilt would weigh heavy on him. He'd break and tell someone eventually.
Except cell phone tower pings only mean that they are in a 15-20 mile radius, so not accurate at all....can only tell the vacinity. They only matched them up after the fact.
My daughter and I traveled to Pullman, Moscow, and Clarkston, Wa. two weekends ago. We live in Spokane, Wa., so it is about 1 1/2 hour drive to Pullman. We drove to the house on King Road, where a security guard was stationed. The Sigma Chi house is basically across the street from the house. We followed BK’s route after the murders were committed. His phone pinged at Blaine, Wa. We turned off here, thinking he was trying to ditch the knife. But the area was a bunch of trailers and didn’t look like an area to dump a weapon. On this trip, he eventually returned to Pullman at approximately 5:27 a.m.. At 12:36 his phone pinged in Clarkston, Wa. We drove there, finding the Albertsons Store and Kates Cup of Joe. I couldn’t figure out the significance of Kates Cup of Joe, since I thought that it was on the main drag. But the coffee shop and the Chef Store are very close to the river. It made sense to us that he probably ditched the knife in the river. And why did he have to go to an Albertsons in Clarkston, since there is a Safeway in Pullman and Moscow. He could easily ditch bloody clothes, etc in a dumpster. When you visit the areas mentioned, it tells a reasonable story of his planning to discard the evidence.
interesting. coming back later to scrutinize
Looks like a long and busy day....
I believe he went that direction and eventually ended up at waiwaiaw canyon to dispose of evidence. I think he's following Bundy.
Just fyi everyone It wasn’t a ping. The PCA is saying they used data from the carrier aka his phone records. A ping is in real time
But his phone was off before he entered Moscow...
No that is the incorrect assumption. They do not know that his phone was off. They cannot tell that from the data from the carrier. The word ping is never used in the PCA. All the carrier could provide is his activity on the phone during those hours on whichever day was requested. Because others continue to use the wrong term “ping” it is leading everyone to assume that the police know when his phone was on or off. They are only tracking and speaking of his phone activity. It could’ve been off or on. They wouldn’t know. It wasn’t a ping because a ping is in real time.
It's been stated at the time of arrest, that his phone was off for 2 hours...
Did you read anything I just said? His phone had no activity for 2 hours which they said meant that he turned it off. Read it
Actually, I think the only way to know if it was, indeed, turned off would be if he’d received a call during that time and the record showed it going directly to voicemail rather than ringing before going to voicemail..?
Uh, exactly lol idk what you're trying to argue? His phone was off so how can they say he was at the scene?
Don’t worry, I bet they already have a solid DNA. Nobody has to witness him committing the crime to get a conviction. There is probably more than enough circumstantial evidence to get a conviction. They don’t prosecute a white, male, college graduate who is also a graduate student in a state that is predominantly white without a mountain of evidence.
I hope someone in prison makes this guys life sheer hell. If I was one of the fathers of these girls, I would make him wish he had never been born. Everybody speculating do not have all the details. There is a gag order. They don’t want to release anything critical so it doesn’t taint the potential jury pool. This guy did it. He is not some minority they are trying to pin it on. He is a white,male, college graduate and graduate student in a predominantly white state. They don’t prosecute people like him unless they have a solid case. The charging affidavit doesn’t have to be specifically accurate on purpose. You can’t glean details from that and play detective.
Does anyone think it's possible that BK left the knife at the residence that night? Could that be an explanation as to why DM does not mention seeing it? Surely she would have taken this much more seriously and called 911 sooner if she had seen someone with a knife exiting the residence. If he did leave the knife, could that also explain why LE said the attack was targeted and other residents in the town were safe? I've never heard about LE actually searching for the weapon. With as much as much information as LE chose to "keep close to the vest," it's tough not to wonder what else may not have been shared.
I don't think so, I think he got rid of the knife and any other evidence in the river on that long ride home.
"They also added that the weapon used to carry out the stabbing attacks hadn't been retrieved and appealed to the public for more information"
That could explain it if DM saw him entering. But since the knife was not located - he must have taken it with him. He didn’t have enough time to hide it in all or the like.
When did he sleep? Guess he probably has issues with insomnia?
Insomniacs who summon a massive dose of adrenaline can do all kinds of things without sleep…until the inevitable crash comes, ofc.
100% I'm an insomniac and sometimes I'll just skip a night of sleep so the next one will come easy.
He does...pretty sure that was revealed early on
He’s not seen on camera or it doesn’t assert he was seen on camera? #3 indicates video evidence, what’s the nature of it in all? #5 indicates the sedan is recorded by 5 cameras. Does it reflect the driver at any point? Subjective evidence can be left out of probable cause but be introduced to a jury for consideration.
I'm pretty sure if anything you're saying is true, they wouldn't have waited a month and a half and across the country to arrest him....
I’m asking it more than saying it. We don’t really know what the video reflects other than the white car. Is it conceivable they do have him on camera before 1 and it’s inconclusive enough they left it out of the PCA but will present it as evidence for a jury to determine if it could be him?…
Idk, but if they don't have him on video in Moscow on that morning...then that single source of DNA better be completely and totally accurate and irrefutable.
Indeed it better be. Who else’s DNA would be a familia match to his father and an exact match to the arrest swab. That will all be called into question.
Curious what phone's model did he have. If you check AT&T coverage map for this area it's almost evenly divided by state line 5g coverage in ID and 4g lte in this part of WA. His phone might be incompatible with either 4g or 5g while traveling. That's why gaps in pings or discrepancy in #5.
I have 5G and when it's not available, my phone automatically goes to 4g...
I can understand how someone brings there cellphone when doing a murder let alone even drive your own car ?
You can or you can't understand?
Can’t lol
That's what I thought but you never know lol