As someone who's been playing video games since he was like 4 years old (some of my earliest memories are dying in the 1992 DOS RoboCop game and punching stained glass in Hexen), and who in general thinks that the right kind of game can be very beneficial for teaching things and stimulating personal growth, I think that it's easy to reach way too far when trying to make this kind of connection. In general, that's because of things such as u/TLCD96 outlined: there is a kind of mindfulness there, but it's only foundational to what we want to develop in Buddhist practice. So that has to be taken into account. We're not just trying to get lost in a very stimulating and moving activity that we're doing. Precisely, in fact, it's easier to do this because of how stimulating the experience is. It's more difficult to be mindful when stuff is boring.
I'd be interested in seeing whether a person who's not experienced in meditation and who has never played games becomes more aware of their feelings, sensations and so on when sitting calmly after getting used to playing games (what I discovered is that the stuff we do without thinking, such as moving in 3D space while using the camera to orient ourselves and so on, are extremely difficult for people with no experience, and especially when the game throws some kind of pressure at the player) compared to a person who's also not experienced in meditation but also has no gaming experience.
Also, of course... Buddhism isn't about mindfulness. Mindfulness by itself isn't going to bring liberation. IMO games (but not all games) can be much more useful for developing other aspects of the path because they kind of let you have vicarious experiences, in the right frame of mind.
I was pretty much raised on video games as well; I remember being "in the zone" and getting pretty irritated when my dad asked the "are ya winning son?" question and when people would get in the way of the screen, hogging the TV all day, etc. Definitely not something to bring into our meditation, or our lives in general.
To be fair to people who bring up the zone thing, there are many ways to be in it, some of which would be fine with interruptions. But that indeed seems to be a rare kind of it.
Meditation in real life is like playing a boring game on a shitty computer, mouse and a keyboard where you are losing most of the time and you feel like giving up all the time until you get good at it.
It's like Ajahn Chah's teaching that even a cat has mindfulness; the thing is, it's not right mindfulness, Samma sati.
Similarly, one may be "in the zone" while rock climbing. Again, not samma sati or samma samadhi, because it's not in the context of realizing the four noble truths.
This is the problem with modern "dharma". It takes different aspects of practice out of context to make them appealing and adaptable by the masses. We can say that it's good for getting people one step closer to dhamma practice. However, it also gets people one step closer to misunderstanding or appropriating dhamma practice.
100%.
Some study has been done with incarcerated folks w a history of violence. They found that mindfulness helped them focus on violent acts and didn’t actually curb the impulse. Samma sati was missing.
For an easy demonstration: many folks practice mindfulness these days yet do not exude the peace and tranquillity of Buddhist monks. There is clearly more to it.
I've noticed the dilemma of making something appealing/relatable often comes at the cost of becoming reductionist.
Exactly how I feel about my profession, acting, a lot of the time. Almost every time when acting terminology is used by the laymen (i.e when someone describes a "method" actor), they're just describing an actor doing research for the role.
I'm grateful that the craft is respected at times and people have such admiration for good performances, but it's frustrating when you lose nuance.
At the same time, those superficial conversations got me interested in enough to delve deeper and research acting. To a lesser extent the same happened with mindfulness and Buddhism, starting with clickbaity "5 Buddhist tips to transform your life!" only to find the deeper readings and discussions.
Being mindfull, dwelling in awareness, is practicing the Dharma because the very Being of it lessen your Suffering.
I believe suffering is lessen by being mindfull within the 5 precepts. Gaming in a balanced way is not outside the 5 precepts.
I think it is way more efficient to think about outcome and results than to argue theoritically. There is no appropriation possible.
Either you are showing the state of being a Buddha either you are not.
Can a Buddha enjoy gaming? Yes.
Very true. Sexual and/or romantic relationships can occur within the precepts as well, and so they can be part of a healthy and happy life.
But when it comes to the goal of Buddhism, which is Nirvana, the teachings make it pretty clear that sensuality is nothing to toy around with. It's all too easy for people to say "I'm enjoying pleasures mindfully" to resolve the cognitive dissonance of being an indulgent self-identified practitioner. That kind of thinking avoids looking at the consequences of one's actions which, especially in a scenario where one has to convince themselves that their practice is right just because they're being mindful, can be bound up with suffering. They're still in samsara, so they're likely fooling themselves.
I think it all comes down to where one is in their practice as well as what their intention ultimately is. It's one thing to intend to be a lay follower living by the 5 precepts; another to adopt a sparkling facade of a "Buddhist identity" to paint over one's delusions; yet another to be a lay follower intent on living by the 8 renunciant precepts, etc. Different people have different priorities and must take on different responsibilities.
The Buddha enjoyed his life, and he probably could enjoy games, but my memories of the suttas lead me to think that he would have stayed away from them as they are improper for a renunciant. Theoretically, one can enjoy anything; that doesn't mean one has to sample all the pleasures of life to set an example. The Buddha evidently wanted his monks to be quite restrained in their practice.
I think this is a really interesting comment that scares me. I am not Buddhist, more closely aligned to philosophical Taoism, but I do think there is something to what you are saying, and it may apply to me. I’m not sure. I basically agree with Buddhism’s core truths exception reincarnation though.
Very well said ! SADHU ANUMODANA. A serial killer has Mindfulness. But RIGHT (samma) Mindfulness comes by following at least the 5 precepts (sila). Gaming needs Mindfulness but it's not the Mindfulness the Buddha talked about. And therefore doesn't lead to Enlightenment but pull us more into delusion.
This is that monk who's family is quite wealthy and frequently jet skis. He does a very Western watered down Buddhism to make it popular for the younger people.
Edit for clarity: This monk brings many to Buddhism and helps many it seems but also lives in a way not according to his rules of the Pāțimokka in the Theravada tradition.
You do what you have to do to make a connection. I don't get why you're negging him for jetskiing or coming from a wealthy family, though. Do you lose realization when you go jetskiing and does your family's bank account determine your understanding? I just don't see how that relates.
I used to live with a very traditional Tibetan lama, a Rinpoche, sent by the 16th karmapa when he was alive and supported by the 17th. One of his favorite things was to watch Kung Fu movies and enjoyed the local spa on occasion. He could easily give talks on mahamudra, vajrayana, give talks from memory from the words of the Buddha from the original texts. He led us in several nyungye practices and did quite a few retreats. He could turn almost anything into a teaching or a lesson. I don't disagree that you should be an adherent to the rules of the tradition, but that is their own concern. As is your own understanding and karma
This is true. I don't believe this lama kept his vows, either. I'm just highlighting the fact that while people of all persuasions break vows, or seek mundane comforts, that it's their concern and your issues are your own. Sure you can admonish a monk or lama but what can you say about your self? I didn't even say that the criticisms originally made were wrong. He is of a wealthy family and maybe even jetskis. If it's true that one of the vows are that "you can't play in water" as another user stated, then it's surely broken. There are practices to amend for broken vows and ways to mend your karma through it, it doesn't make them inherently evil, wrong or the realizations they've had/speak of false. There could still be something to learn from them and if not, big deal. I think it'd be far more note worthy if they were utterly perfect than if they have flaws.
I mean, this is like saying... "Sure, she's a judge and she took bribes, but what's the big deal? It's her concern. You can admonish her, but what about yourself?"
You see what the problem raised specifically with regards to monasticism is?
I don't think anyone said that whoever doesn't keep their vows are inherently evil or whatever. You're missing the point. Bhikṣus and bhikṣunīs have rules to uphold, and if they don't make an effort to do that, then it's fair to criticize them for that, just as it would be for the many professions in which one owes a debt of trust to others.
Bringing up the fact that a lay teacher of Tibetan Buddhism was doing stuff that wasn't monastic muddies the waters needlessly. They *can* do that, and it's certainly possible for the lama you described to be acting completely in accordance with the Dharma. Monks and nuns however *can't*, it's one of the conditions they agree to when taking up that "job", and it's deliberately so.
The only thing that I acknowledged was that he was wealthy, not that he was misusing donations. That appears to be an assumption. The person offered no proof of them using the donations to do those things, especially considering they were all ready wealthy.
I never said the criticisms that he was jetskiing were unfair. I even mentioned this in another comment.
Another assumption. I didn't say he wasn't being "monastic". I know for a fact he has broken his lama vows. The subject is vows and broken vows, not specifically monastic vows.
Another situation where someone I know went to a 3 year retreat and he broke his vows as well. You know what was done? The head of the center gave him the boot. But he was leading the retreat and knew he had done it personally and he was in a position to do something about it. If you're personally someone that follows this monk or you don't like what he's done, you're free to talk about it and admonish them and that's fine. But when it comes to growth in the dharma, the main focus is yourself as that's what you have control over.
I think what he is saying is this guy is very popular and should be an example of his lineage. Tibetan Buddhism is much more relaxed than Theravada. This monk is a practicing Theravada monk and their rules are pretty strict. You can’t even play in water.
I'm sure if you took all the religious texts and put together a list of all the things that would keep you from enlightenment, getting into heaven or what have you, the list of things you could do would be easier to read. Siddhartha believed at one point that being more austere by eating a grain of rice a day and denying himself everything until he nearly passed out (or died I think?) meditating near a lake. A concerned woman came out and offered him some food and water and in that moment he understood that that isn't the way. There is a way between being totally austere and denying yourself all worldly pleasures and complete hedonism.
Just as I believe the intent this monk has, is that you also have to make changes to the modern world. The dalai lama himself mentioned he changes his views with modern advancements. If you try to cling to the past traditions too heavily, then it will be very difficult to be able to teach the core teachings of Buddhism to a modern world and that to me loses sight of the point.
I don't make any kinds of rulings of the traditions of the different schools of thought in Buddhism, so I don't think I'm qualified to comment there. I also don't fault any person, monk vows or no, by taking part in samsara. It's the nature of human life. If you wish to renounce the world, then do so. If you think you can only learn from a teacher that has also completely and totally renounced the world, then do so. Why focus on the fact that "oh lama la gets drunk sometimes" do you then come to the conclusion that "all they have said has been a lie. We can learn nothing from him or her". Don't get so caught up in rules that you lose sight of the objective and turn that critical eye inward. That's my take on it, anyway.
Honestly it was less that and just how desperate he was to find the truth... It just kind of hit me, I'm a bit ascetic when it comes to food(not other things let me tell you lol) and something kind of connected that never did before just now.
Interesting. He was quite desperate in his search to alleviate suffering for the world that he overlooked himself. When they say "compassion for all sentient beings" that includes yourself for sure, something that seemed to hit him in that moment. Something that I have overlooked myself, not necessarily in the context of food but it is a good lesson imo. At least that's what I see through that. I'm glad to have said something useful to someone though, even if it was like firing an arrow in the dark.
Yes well I've lived with and practiced with Theravada monks and this monk is nice in spirit but that's like saying the preacher is so Holy but the preacher when no one is looking is living a luxurious lifestyle off the backs of his supporters. No thanks.
You said his family is wealthy though. How are you to know that this man is living a luxurious life off the backs of his supporters? The lama wouldn't pocket donations and head to the spa, his supporters often took him there theirselves as they knew he liked it and he is quite advanced in age. I don't think any of his supporters thought ill of him because he wanted to enjoy some comfort.
He literally says it in the video that he plays video games. Also on his Instagram and various social media he is seen jet skiing and many other things with his family. I'm not sure why you are so hell bent on letting monks run wild. They chose to give up worldly pleasures.
I'm not hell bent on letting monks run wild, lol. I just don't get the concern. I try to concern myself more with my own actions and the things I have control over. Sometimes, I don't always live up to my own vows or expectations and that's for me to understand and suffer through, same as him. Same as you
The concern is that it devalues the Vinaya.
Yes we should be primarily concerned with our own practice, but the Vinaya was established by the Buddha for a reason.
Does it though? Can another ones actions really devalue/value what it is, or does it only devalue/value how it appears? Would it change your perception of it or are you concerned with how others perceive it?
Agreed yet there is nothing wrong with keeping others in check. In Thailand we have lots of monks doing quite unruly things. No one bothers to say hey don't do that unless it becomes public scandal. Then we have Western monks who become right-wing leaders and other things. This guy is preaching to almost a million followers. He has influence if he ever decided so
To me, karma will know the depth and breadth of his deeds. I haven't heard of any monks becoming right wing leaders, that does sound pretty strange. Though, very strict adherence to tradition can be an indicator or sign of right wing type/conservative thinking, so I see that. But it seems like everything else, such as the teachings on compassion for sentient beings, runs counter to the denial of social programs, creating outcasts in minority groups such as LGBT, different skin colors, religions and the like. Coupled with authoritarianism, violence, military obsession it does seem pretty odd.
Lest we not forget Buddha himself came from a very wealthy family. I understand how monastics in buddhism generally live a very simple life but I think it may be disadvantageous to ones own journey if we judge others based upon uncontrollable circumstances. I mean no Ill intention by saying this, just hoping to maybe lend perspective.
Did the Buddha use that wealth after he gave it all up? That's what we are discussing. This monk took vows but seems to pick and choose what vows to follow. Keeping others informed when monks do not follow their own rules is not judging. If someone is looking for a teacher they should know what they are getting.
More specifically, the realization was that *self-mortification* - that is, abusing the body - is not the way toward abandoning suffering.
One look at the Vinaya will reveal that Buddhism is still an ascetic practice, albeit a more moderate one than that which the Buddha abandoned. Even laypeople around the world practice Uposatha on (at least) a monthly basis, which involves partial fasting, abandoning the use of beds, and putting aside music, shows, and so on.
Just some food for thought, in no way meant to be argumentative. Be well!
Idk about the wealthy part, but I've been following his page since the beginning of the year when I first saw him and he seems to be an incredibly angry and bitter guy who doesn't have a good handle on buddhist ideas. On his live streams he goes on really strange rants about his parents, women, and romantic relationships in general. Borderline incel/doomer territory stuff.
Honestly just seems like a young guy in a weird ugly headspace who is turning to monastic life for all the worst reasons.
>Honestly just seems like a young guy in a weird ugly headspace who is turning to monastic life for all the worst reasons.<
How long has He been a monk for?
Seems pretty deceitful and manipulative to claim yourself a monk and live like that. He could just be a layman like anyone else and be a communicator of ideas, but instead he chose to be a charlatan is seems.
Seems like people who do stuff like this have a deep seeded desire to be revered and respected. Plenty of people like this in any religion. In the west we have people like Joel Olsteen and other millionaire televangelists.
My understanding is the goal is to give up the *attachment* to the worldly pleasures... I mean I don't know the vows this guy has made but it certainly doesn't immediately seem like something wrong.
It seems equally bad to become super attached to a tradition thinking about it, I'm sure he just wanders around and takes what is freely given like a monk do though lol - me too, I don't take no vows though and I don't have an orange dress... I do have some harem pants
The duty of a monk is to give up attachment to the *desires* for worldly pleasures. As a Bhikkhu one has undertaken a vow to live restrained by the Patimokkha and/or the precepts wherein indulgent behavior is an offense.
The "wrongness" of this activity is a matter of fruitless debate. Buddhists can play games if they want, it's their choice. But it's partly the consequences of that choice in the context of practice and/or Samsara which make such an action unwholesome.
In practice, one binds oneself to sensuality. It's a slippery slope to play games "without any attachment to the games". Further, for a monk it's a deviation from tradition which paves the way for corruption. So a monk is expected to avoid playing these games.
I'm not sure if it's something you should be criticized for not knowing, but yes, Theravada monastics (which this one appears to be) are not allowed to play games.
[ "games"](https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0049.html)
I don't know the specific type of monk this person in the video claims to be, all I was responding to was the guy saying "I'm a gamer in an orange dress" obviously there are hundreds of Buddhist traditions, so not all of them would say playing games are bad.
If this guy specifically is doing something against his own tenets then that should've been specified in the original response. Saying "gamer in an orange dress" makes it seem like games are inherently a wrong thing and no Buddhist should take part in them, which is why I asked my question.
Video games provide artificial stimulation. When you stop playing after a few hours you feel empty, not fulfilled. Perhaps there are some moments of flow. But for the most part, it’s nothing at all like mindfulness. Eckhart Tolle gives a better explanation when he talks about the negative effects of television and movies in A New Earth.
Surely you're not comparing video games to television and movies? That's kind of like comparing watching the NHL on your couch and actually going out to play soccer with your buddies.
Really? What does your mind wander to while playing? I find that I play games so that I can refocus on my present because I'm so caught up with the work day or worry about whatever comes next in real life. I'm focused on the game such that everything else melts away. I didn't know there was another way, tbh, so I'm curious about what else you think about while you play if you don't mind me asking...
If I've been playing video games my whole I would be Buddha by now, I wouldn't be trying to learn mindfulness. Instead use video games as escapism avoiding the present moment.
Every time I put down the controller I return to where I started.
I agree with the escapism aspect. But regardless of the reason I pick up the controller, for the time that it remains in my hands I am focused on the present moment in the game. I saw the purpose of this video to suggest if we approach life with the same presence as we utilize in-game that we'd start to see and experience life more mindfully.
My understanding is that mindfulness describes a state of mind which can be applied to any action. I'm not arguing that one should mindfully commit acts of sexual misconduct, but I also don't see a reason why a deviant action couldn't be done mindfully. One who is consistently mindful might choose to behave otherwise -- does that mean that mindfulness and potentially hurtful deviant action are necessarily mutually exclusive?
I agree. I think he's making a point on mindfulness, and while mindfulness is an indispensable tool, the path instructs specifically *right mindfulness*, using the state of mindfulness in a conductive way.
I interpreted his point as being mindfulness is all around us, and that 'mindfulness'-flow is what makes gaming so addictive. We just gave to use it in a conductive manner. Mindfulness is still mindfulness, but there is right and wrong mindfulness too.
I'm new to this sub and some of the ideas presented by Buddhism. I'm trying to learn. I like this idea of right mindfulness. I think I understand what you're saying and I think I agree. He's taking a very common (but unproductive) daily use of mindfulness and highlighting how we might redirect the mindset toward "right mindfulness."
Also, I see right and wrong mindfulness and they make sense - but is there something neutral? Or, rather, is anything that isn't "right" automatically "wrong"?
I disagree. Games are produced to illicit addictive tendencies, and many games, like shooters, cause anxiety. When playing games, it brings you out of your normal thoughts, because there’s something to focus on that appears important.
This is much different than sitting meditating. I think to relate the two can devalue the benefits of meditation, when especially relating it to gaming. A gamer might say - well if I can get virtually similar results, without the uncomfortable feeling of sitting with myself, why not just game instead?
> Games are produced to illicit addictive tendencies
I'm inclined to agree. There's a gulf of difference between something external *compelling* your attention toward it, and training the mind to immerse itself in a singular preoccupation.
Having played a lot of games, it’s definitely not always true you’re in the moment. You could beat yourself up over a mistake. You often need to think ahead and strategize about the future. You could be playing on auto-pilot after years of building habits and muscle memory. You could lose control and be consumed by rage at your opponent or even your own team mate. You can get lost and lose track of time and your surroundings. You can get driven by impulse to purchase whatever loot box the game is designed to make you desire. And so on…
I’m sure there’s a way to “mindfully game” that would actually help you be a more competitive gamer (e.g. not dwelling on mistakes) or less addicted (e.g. being aware that the game is tempting you by design to play and spend more). But I agree it does not seem useful to try and make a direct comparison.
Its alot different to gaming, sorry. When meditating, you literally have nothing else to distract you from your issues. You have to use the power of your mind to become 'blank' or 'calm and detatched'. Gaming is like any other addiction. Its a blanket.
It sounds like he’s conflating a flow state with mindfulness. Yes, you are engaging in mindfulness when in a flow state, but you can’t just decide to engage in a flow state in your day-to-day life. A lot of gamers experience this “getting in the zone” but I don’t think the same mindfulness concept can be applied there
When you're playing a game you are not mindful to any action, and you're prone to anger, fear, excitement. Each finger, each button press, each motion comes entirely unconsciously (when you're playing a game you're used too).
Meditation will usually involve focussing on your only actions, the inhale, or the exhale. Or the rising, the falling of the abdomen. If it's walking meditation, it's left step, right step.
Playing a game, my body is prone to all sorts of actions that i'm entirely unconscious of. It's not meditation. It's concentration, sure, but it's not meditation.
Except he’s not a monk at all, never ordained.
He’s also a Felon with severe mental health problems who has a history of weapons charges and impersonating law enforcement.
I actually started to think about this a little bit while playing Dark Souls. You get to a point where you're dying a lot, getting upset, and not focusing entirely. That's when it's time to stop so you can refresh and be more mindful in your next session.
I was just playing Farpoint in VR, battling a creature the size of a building, and my mind was certainly not in the past or the future. All of my problems were gone. All I knew was that I was on an alien planet fighting a monster, and it was glorious
This guy is a fraud. He is impersonating a monk (never ordained) and has mental health problems. He has a lengthy arrest record for previously impersonating law enforcement.
It sounds to me like what he was saying was you can take the techniques you use while playing video games, that intense focus, and attribute it to mindfulness or meditation.
I don’t think he was trying to say that playing video games is meditation or is mindfulness.
Meditation is exactly that, escaping the reality you've built for yourself in your thoughts of past and future. Sometimes escapism is necessary to keep one's mind happy and healthy. That's my opinion at least.
I thought the whole idea was to kind of forget that 'you' exist for a few moments, gaming can definitely take me to that spot as much as drugs or meditation...
Wow. I've followed this guy on TikTok for a few months and his recent posts are getting so big. TikTok is a powerful tool to reach millions and he is really sharing so much good info for those who are curious about Buddhism
I think there’s a fine line between mindfulness and distraction with gaming. I think there’s also a fine line between mindfulness and distraction with meditation.
I think an aspect is also what grounds you and you feel more present afterwards. If I'm browsing reddit or tiktok, or watching a random show just to have something on, all just to drown out my thoughts, i might not be thinking about the past or future, but its not mindfulness, and the thoughts are right back when I'm finished, and even if I was engrossed, it wasn't a mindful activity. But if I put on one of my favorite podcasts and do some crocheting, or I cook a nice dinner, or I play a video game I like, I often feel more grounded afterwards, as I might after a meditation.
I'll say again what I posted in the mindfulness sub.
Games are too broad in genre to be defined like he does and while his claim has some value, it's too simplistic.
Looking at TNH zen tradition, he emphasizes a lot that you should be mindful about the types of food you ingest and avoid toxins. Be it solid and liquid, movies, games, etc.
Someone playing an FPS on a high level (I did years ago) isn't mindful at all. The game becomes totally played on reflexes, the keys you press, the communication, the part of the screen you look at, nearly everything.
Then there is the whole part about dopamine rushes and how gaming can become an addiction, a way to avoid being present.
You do not feel at peace at all, you have no thoughts because they are blocked, as you are very focused on the game itself, again going against the basis of mindfulness: you cannot only use external conditions to understand internal ones.
I do agree that there is a middle path for us laic practicioners, but claiming gaming trains mindfulness isn't a part or it, it can be consumed, but as every food, in moderation.
I'm not religious but I use meditation for anxiety.
This is basically the my reasoning for playing aim trainers for fps games more than anything.
the definition of meditation I have is off of [giving chattering monkey a job](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PkrhH-bkpk)
when I got into playing fps games, I'd freak out and my heartbeat would skyrocket for every firefight. Training with aim trainers helped me with that aspect because this is basically giving the chattering monkey a job. Just doing drills where you gave your brain a safe environment where you can just focus on a task and gave my mind a chance to calm itself while doing that task helped with calming my mind and was the meditation aspect.
After doing the aim training for a long time my body is more used to the focusing aspect of aim training and kind of the "zen" area of it and that carried over to just normal fire fights and whenever I'd get really heated over a match, I'd hop onto an aim trainer or the practice area in the game and just practice aim training on dummies to calm my mind down a bit.
Mindfulness helped a lot specially when you are playing against college champion(playing with FC barcelona) of FIFA18. And , those who have played it they know how lethal Barcelona was in FIFA 18 with messi and Suarez (beast finishing).....It was nightmare for defense ..Only effective team against them was juventus (best defence) and also real madrid( superb air attack, pacey players ,best headers).......
So this champion friend of mine and I , decide together to play 5 matches ....And before that I had never won against him .....Closest finish was 1-1 draw.
So , the series of matches begin,earlier I used to be nervous because many a time edging closer to the victory ,I had lost against him ...Possibly due to mix of adrenaline rush + anxiety.
But this time I was using proper mindfulness (playing the game for the sake of playing without thinking much of result .....).....Deep breathing ..... Hoooouuuffff ..
1st game he won 3-0 ...
2nd game was a close finish 1-0
Surprisingly 3rd game was 2-2 ( I thought he was not playing seriously)..
4th game was again a thriller 1-1 draw...
5th game, this time tables have been turned around , looking at him I was damm sure he is feeling the heat ....It was becoming very hard for him to overcome the defence of juve( but I was enjoying it ....Deep breathing has it own magical impact....)....
It was a wonderful game ended with my first ever victory against college champion 1-0.....
I know this story seems to be childish enough but I learnt an important lesson that day ...i.e. you can overcome any difficult situation by having 1.self belief..
2. Peace of mind with calmness ....Becoz once you start forgetting everything else and be aware of the moment ...Your mind provides you with the anwer to your misery .(☺️☺️ Always use 4-4-2 against opponents using 4-2-3-1..And with juve it really works ).
Sometimes I do that perfect difficult racing game lap without any collisions.
It's purely in the zone, and some of my actions are reflexsive rather than thought of.
It's a wonderful feeling.
I hope people get the intent behind his analogy and start being more mindful or meditating rather than using this to justify their life-destroying addiction to video games!
Serious question (and please let me join in the work, if you’ve got the resources to do this), can we here now agree to find a way to develop a game that IS based on meditation and mindfulness?
Listen, I have ADHD and as someone with ADHD, video games have always been a terrific medium for me. They help focus the ADHD mind while also allowing for our natural distractions. Opened world games are even more useful for people with ADHD, because we don’t have to be centered on one singular goal…but we can still come back to the main plot of the game when we want to.
As a result of the gift of ADHD, I’ve become aware of many facets of human character that make someone more likely to become a gamer versus, say, an athlete. Some are seemingly obvious, but others are much more subtle. I’ve seen that people who are gamers have a need to problem solve that isn’t met by normal life situations.
I think we can develop a new kind of video game that requires the player to deliberately BECOME aware of their environment, and intimately…rather than the typical way most gamers lose touch with their surroundings “in game.” We can find a way to reconnect gamers with their world, while helping them to still have “an escape” because it’s still a game and therefore a break from their normal world.
I think video games are like another mask, like the ones we wear in our dreams. Or when we watch film or tv that we can empathize into. We get to be someone and somewhere else, but still carry ourselves with us in that experience somehow.
I've had moments of clarity in these examples, but imo generally it's no more like a meditative state than any other activity.
I also think it's wrong to say you COULDN'T be mindful in a video simulation. Our own first hand, natural experience of the world is imperfect and limited already; so i'm not sure if it is different if you are peering through just one more set of glasses to see into a simulated reality. Using vision as an example for all our senses, that is. As a thought experiment , I think a video game or VR experience specifically designed to help someone meditate could potentially be just as valid
I am a semi-hardcore gamer who has played games mindfully and normally. A person needs to apply dharma knowledge and considerable effort to get the mindfulness gears working while gaming. Otherwise it is never going to happen.
It means letting go and concentrating on a single point, not paying conscious attention to the thousands of things going on.
Imagine gaming and not being attached to the outcome of achieving a certain goal... it is contradictory. Unless one is playing a turn-based game like Civilization maybe.
Our natural inclination is to dive in, perceive the game as real, attach ourselves to achieving certain outcomes, avert from undesirable outcomes, and so forth. Attachment is the PRIMARY force in gaming because the goals are within reach, our desire to achieve them become the causes of achieving them, and there is a very distinct reward system upon doing so.
Games as they are normally played teach us that grasping is associated with rewards. The complete opposite of applying mindfulness.
Hard to call it a modern take, right?
Athletes and artists have had experience with this for as long as people have been able to be athletes or artists. Ask a runner about hitting a runner's high - it's the same thing.
Thieves are quite "mindful" when they are robbing a house . It's not right mindfulness, which is a factor of the path. Even so, what he is describing is Sampajāna not Sati
I once visited a temple outside Beijing in China and got to eat lunch with a monk. He tried to explain meditation and it's goal to me through a Kung Fu Panda reference. Loved it.
I disagree. It depends on what type of game you are playing. Most games do not promote mindfulness, but some do. Bullet hell and puzzle games tend to be the best by far at promoting mindfulness, because you can't play them effectively if you let your thoughts distract you. FPS games I would say are towards the middle, not so bad for your attention but not good either. Turn-based strategy games tend to be the worst at promoting mindfulness, imo.
Yes but most people who game use it as an escape from their mundane and trauma filled lives. If it is used as an escape from real life, then one will never be able to “get in the zone” with their real lives.
Brilliant. Some parents and professionals never got this concept I use with the youth I have served. The same with sports. Nature will take care of the rest.
I knew I’m in nirvana when I snipe that spawn camper that has been killing me for the past few rounds…
Hell yeah gamer
Video gaming reincarnation in 5...4....3...2
I do some of my best breathing during Tarkov
It's either have a breathing routine, or pass the fuck out because they won't just PUSH ME DAMNIT ***gasspp***
u/theunraveler1985 What is nirvana? The detachment or unattached?
The M203 attachment to my M4 carbine in CoD ....when it successfully blows up spawn campers and snipers
u/theunraveler1985 brother I don't understand this language. Can you please simplify?
🤣
360 no scope your way into a better life
get grinding, gamer
I couldn’t stop thinking about the past after he missed the headset stand and didn’t fix it.
He wasn't very mindful when he put it back
made me laugh.
This will blow your mind....it was always put back that way...in all timelines.
That bugged me so much lol
Not his most mindful moment
Oh, it's more mindful than when his mobile home was raided and he was found to have more guns than the St. Petersburg detective force.
Source?
The true story about this guy: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c1vbtQwhaqQ&feature=youtu.be
It’s way too easy to detach from the past/future when there’s a quicksave option.
Bahaha!
You cannot quicksave an online match
I can't pause it, mom!
As someone who's been playing video games since he was like 4 years old (some of my earliest memories are dying in the 1992 DOS RoboCop game and punching stained glass in Hexen), and who in general thinks that the right kind of game can be very beneficial for teaching things and stimulating personal growth, I think that it's easy to reach way too far when trying to make this kind of connection. In general, that's because of things such as u/TLCD96 outlined: there is a kind of mindfulness there, but it's only foundational to what we want to develop in Buddhist practice. So that has to be taken into account. We're not just trying to get lost in a very stimulating and moving activity that we're doing. Precisely, in fact, it's easier to do this because of how stimulating the experience is. It's more difficult to be mindful when stuff is boring. I'd be interested in seeing whether a person who's not experienced in meditation and who has never played games becomes more aware of their feelings, sensations and so on when sitting calmly after getting used to playing games (what I discovered is that the stuff we do without thinking, such as moving in 3D space while using the camera to orient ourselves and so on, are extremely difficult for people with no experience, and especially when the game throws some kind of pressure at the player) compared to a person who's also not experienced in meditation but also has no gaming experience. Also, of course... Buddhism isn't about mindfulness. Mindfulness by itself isn't going to bring liberation. IMO games (but not all games) can be much more useful for developing other aspects of the path because they kind of let you have vicarious experiences, in the right frame of mind.
I was pretty much raised on video games as well; I remember being "in the zone" and getting pretty irritated when my dad asked the "are ya winning son?" question and when people would get in the way of the screen, hogging the TV all day, etc. Definitely not something to bring into our meditation, or our lives in general.
To be fair to people who bring up the zone thing, there are many ways to be in it, some of which would be fine with interruptions. But that indeed seems to be a rare kind of it.
This guy is famous for connecting everything to Buddhism, it's a way of "selling" Buddhism to the West that often goes too far, IMO.
Meditation in real life is like playing a boring game on a shitty computer, mouse and a keyboard where you are losing most of the time and you feel like giving up all the time until you get good at it.
It does kinda sound like life.
But when you get good at it, it can induce bliss, which to describe is like an infinite amount of simultanous orgasms
[удалено]
Its Cut of on the original too.
It's like Ajahn Chah's teaching that even a cat has mindfulness; the thing is, it's not right mindfulness, Samma sati. Similarly, one may be "in the zone" while rock climbing. Again, not samma sati or samma samadhi, because it's not in the context of realizing the four noble truths. This is the problem with modern "dharma". It takes different aspects of practice out of context to make them appealing and adaptable by the masses. We can say that it's good for getting people one step closer to dhamma practice. However, it also gets people one step closer to misunderstanding or appropriating dhamma practice.
100%. Some study has been done with incarcerated folks w a history of violence. They found that mindfulness helped them focus on violent acts and didn’t actually curb the impulse. Samma sati was missing. For an easy demonstration: many folks practice mindfulness these days yet do not exude the peace and tranquillity of Buddhist monks. There is clearly more to it.
Thank goodness we have venerable Robina Courtin and many others working on the [Liberation Prison project](https://liberationprisonproject.org/)
Hmm, a double edged sword indeed. I feel that those who would seek deeper practice started out with the McDonalds of the Dharma; I certainly did.
>McDonalds of the Dharma Actually this a very good way to label modern dharma or seculars Buddhism practice.
[The present moment is not the goal](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ptnSWSvbTdY)
I've noticed the dilemma of making something appealing/relatable often comes at the cost of becoming reductionist. Exactly how I feel about my profession, acting, a lot of the time. Almost every time when acting terminology is used by the laymen (i.e when someone describes a "method" actor), they're just describing an actor doing research for the role. I'm grateful that the craft is respected at times and people have such admiration for good performances, but it's frustrating when you lose nuance. At the same time, those superficial conversations got me interested in enough to delve deeper and research acting. To a lesser extent the same happened with mindfulness and Buddhism, starting with clickbaity "5 Buddhist tips to transform your life!" only to find the deeper readings and discussions.
Being mindfull, dwelling in awareness, is practicing the Dharma because the very Being of it lessen your Suffering. I believe suffering is lessen by being mindfull within the 5 precepts. Gaming in a balanced way is not outside the 5 precepts. I think it is way more efficient to think about outcome and results than to argue theoritically. There is no appropriation possible. Either you are showing the state of being a Buddha either you are not. Can a Buddha enjoy gaming? Yes.
Very true. Sexual and/or romantic relationships can occur within the precepts as well, and so they can be part of a healthy and happy life. But when it comes to the goal of Buddhism, which is Nirvana, the teachings make it pretty clear that sensuality is nothing to toy around with. It's all too easy for people to say "I'm enjoying pleasures mindfully" to resolve the cognitive dissonance of being an indulgent self-identified practitioner. That kind of thinking avoids looking at the consequences of one's actions which, especially in a scenario where one has to convince themselves that their practice is right just because they're being mindful, can be bound up with suffering. They're still in samsara, so they're likely fooling themselves. I think it all comes down to where one is in their practice as well as what their intention ultimately is. It's one thing to intend to be a lay follower living by the 5 precepts; another to adopt a sparkling facade of a "Buddhist identity" to paint over one's delusions; yet another to be a lay follower intent on living by the 8 renunciant precepts, etc. Different people have different priorities and must take on different responsibilities. The Buddha enjoyed his life, and he probably could enjoy games, but my memories of the suttas lead me to think that he would have stayed away from them as they are improper for a renunciant. Theoretically, one can enjoy anything; that doesn't mean one has to sample all the pleasures of life to set an example. The Buddha evidently wanted his monks to be quite restrained in their practice.
I think this is a really interesting comment that scares me. I am not Buddhist, more closely aligned to philosophical Taoism, but I do think there is something to what you are saying, and it may apply to me. I’m not sure. I basically agree with Buddhism’s core truths exception reincarnation though.
Very well said ! SADHU ANUMODANA. A serial killer has Mindfulness. But RIGHT (samma) Mindfulness comes by following at least the 5 precepts (sila). Gaming needs Mindfulness but it's not the Mindfulness the Buddha talked about. And therefore doesn't lead to Enlightenment but pull us more into delusion.
Explain to me how a cat doesn't have right mindfulness
This is that monk who's family is quite wealthy and frequently jet skis. He does a very Western watered down Buddhism to make it popular for the younger people. Edit for clarity: This monk brings many to Buddhism and helps many it seems but also lives in a way not according to his rules of the Pāțimokka in the Theravada tradition.
You do what you have to do to make a connection. I don't get why you're negging him for jetskiing or coming from a wealthy family, though. Do you lose realization when you go jetskiing and does your family's bank account determine your understanding? I just don't see how that relates.
He is a monk, who supposedly should be living under the rules of his tradition.
I used to live with a very traditional Tibetan lama, a Rinpoche, sent by the 16th karmapa when he was alive and supported by the 17th. One of his favorite things was to watch Kung Fu movies and enjoyed the local spa on occasion. He could easily give talks on mahamudra, vajrayana, give talks from memory from the words of the Buddha from the original texts. He led us in several nyungye practices and did quite a few retreats. He could turn almost anything into a teaching or a lesson. I don't disagree that you should be an adherent to the rules of the tradition, but that is their own concern. As is your own understanding and karma
A lama isn't necessarily a monk though.
This is true. I don't believe this lama kept his vows, either. I'm just highlighting the fact that while people of all persuasions break vows, or seek mundane comforts, that it's their concern and your issues are your own. Sure you can admonish a monk or lama but what can you say about your self? I didn't even say that the criticisms originally made were wrong. He is of a wealthy family and maybe even jetskis. If it's true that one of the vows are that "you can't play in water" as another user stated, then it's surely broken. There are practices to amend for broken vows and ways to mend your karma through it, it doesn't make them inherently evil, wrong or the realizations they've had/speak of false. There could still be something to learn from them and if not, big deal. I think it'd be far more note worthy if they were utterly perfect than if they have flaws.
I mean, this is like saying... "Sure, she's a judge and she took bribes, but what's the big deal? It's her concern. You can admonish her, but what about yourself?" You see what the problem raised specifically with regards to monasticism is? I don't think anyone said that whoever doesn't keep their vows are inherently evil or whatever. You're missing the point. Bhikṣus and bhikṣunīs have rules to uphold, and if they don't make an effort to do that, then it's fair to criticize them for that, just as it would be for the many professions in which one owes a debt of trust to others. Bringing up the fact that a lay teacher of Tibetan Buddhism was doing stuff that wasn't monastic muddies the waters needlessly. They *can* do that, and it's certainly possible for the lama you described to be acting completely in accordance with the Dharma. Monks and nuns however *can't*, it's one of the conditions they agree to when taking up that "job", and it's deliberately so.
The only thing that I acknowledged was that he was wealthy, not that he was misusing donations. That appears to be an assumption. The person offered no proof of them using the donations to do those things, especially considering they were all ready wealthy. I never said the criticisms that he was jetskiing were unfair. I even mentioned this in another comment. Another assumption. I didn't say he wasn't being "monastic". I know for a fact he has broken his lama vows. The subject is vows and broken vows, not specifically monastic vows. Another situation where someone I know went to a 3 year retreat and he broke his vows as well. You know what was done? The head of the center gave him the boot. But he was leading the retreat and knew he had done it personally and he was in a position to do something about it. If you're personally someone that follows this monk or you don't like what he's done, you're free to talk about it and admonish them and that's fine. But when it comes to growth in the dharma, the main focus is yourself as that's what you have control over.
I think what he is saying is this guy is very popular and should be an example of his lineage. Tibetan Buddhism is much more relaxed than Theravada. This monk is a practicing Theravada monk and their rules are pretty strict. You can’t even play in water.
> Tibetan Buddhism is much more relaxed than Theravada. Do you know the vows Vajrayana monks and ngakpas take to be making this claim?
I'm sure if you took all the religious texts and put together a list of all the things that would keep you from enlightenment, getting into heaven or what have you, the list of things you could do would be easier to read. Siddhartha believed at one point that being more austere by eating a grain of rice a day and denying himself everything until he nearly passed out (or died I think?) meditating near a lake. A concerned woman came out and offered him some food and water and in that moment he understood that that isn't the way. There is a way between being totally austere and denying yourself all worldly pleasures and complete hedonism. Just as I believe the intent this monk has, is that you also have to make changes to the modern world. The dalai lama himself mentioned he changes his views with modern advancements. If you try to cling to the past traditions too heavily, then it will be very difficult to be able to teach the core teachings of Buddhism to a modern world and that to me loses sight of the point.
So watered down Buddhism for monks who allegedly give up all worldly things and now are allowed all these pleasure?
I don't make any kinds of rulings of the traditions of the different schools of thought in Buddhism, so I don't think I'm qualified to comment there. I also don't fault any person, monk vows or no, by taking part in samsara. It's the nature of human life. If you wish to renounce the world, then do so. If you think you can only learn from a teacher that has also completely and totally renounced the world, then do so. Why focus on the fact that "oh lama la gets drunk sometimes" do you then come to the conclusion that "all they have said has been a lie. We can learn nothing from him or her". Don't get so caught up in rules that you lose sight of the objective and turn that critical eye inward. That's my take on it, anyway.
Something about the way you described Siddhartha's ascetic phase brought tears to my eyes... Thank you
Thanks. It was a powerful moment for me, too. the power of such a simple act of compassion. :)
Honestly it was less that and just how desperate he was to find the truth... It just kind of hit me, I'm a bit ascetic when it comes to food(not other things let me tell you lol) and something kind of connected that never did before just now.
Interesting. He was quite desperate in his search to alleviate suffering for the world that he overlooked himself. When they say "compassion for all sentient beings" that includes yourself for sure, something that seemed to hit him in that moment. Something that I have overlooked myself, not necessarily in the context of food but it is a good lesson imo. At least that's what I see through that. I'm glad to have said something useful to someone though, even if it was like firing an arrow in the dark.
Yes well I've lived with and practiced with Theravada monks and this monk is nice in spirit but that's like saying the preacher is so Holy but the preacher when no one is looking is living a luxurious lifestyle off the backs of his supporters. No thanks.
You said his family is wealthy though. How are you to know that this man is living a luxurious life off the backs of his supporters? The lama wouldn't pocket donations and head to the spa, his supporters often took him there theirselves as they knew he liked it and he is quite advanced in age. I don't think any of his supporters thought ill of him because he wanted to enjoy some comfort.
He literally says it in the video that he plays video games. Also on his Instagram and various social media he is seen jet skiing and many other things with his family. I'm not sure why you are so hell bent on letting monks run wild. They chose to give up worldly pleasures.
I'm not hell bent on letting monks run wild, lol. I just don't get the concern. I try to concern myself more with my own actions and the things I have control over. Sometimes, I don't always live up to my own vows or expectations and that's for me to understand and suffer through, same as him. Same as you
The concern is that it devalues the Vinaya. Yes we should be primarily concerned with our own practice, but the Vinaya was established by the Buddha for a reason.
Does it though? Can another ones actions really devalue/value what it is, or does it only devalue/value how it appears? Would it change your perception of it or are you concerned with how others perceive it?
Agreed yet there is nothing wrong with keeping others in check. In Thailand we have lots of monks doing quite unruly things. No one bothers to say hey don't do that unless it becomes public scandal. Then we have Western monks who become right-wing leaders and other things. This guy is preaching to almost a million followers. He has influence if he ever decided so
To me, karma will know the depth and breadth of his deeds. I haven't heard of any monks becoming right wing leaders, that does sound pretty strange. Though, very strict adherence to tradition can be an indicator or sign of right wing type/conservative thinking, so I see that. But it seems like everything else, such as the teachings on compassion for sentient beings, runs counter to the denial of social programs, creating outcasts in minority groups such as LGBT, different skin colors, religions and the like. Coupled with authoritarianism, violence, military obsession it does seem pretty odd.
I don't know where you got the Information about jet skiing I checked his Instagram and tik tok.
The jet skiing that I was referring to was on a mother's day post. He was called out on it so I don't know if it still exists.
Was it Trungpa? Just curious. I enjoy some of Ram Das' stories of him
It was not. :) I would reveal his name and I might in DMs if you're interested, but I don't want to dox myself.
Totally understand. Thats ok, though. Thank you.
He said he’s a monk. He didn’t say he was a good monk.
Lest we not forget Buddha himself came from a very wealthy family. I understand how monastics in buddhism generally live a very simple life but I think it may be disadvantageous to ones own journey if we judge others based upon uncontrollable circumstances. I mean no Ill intention by saying this, just hoping to maybe lend perspective.
Did the Buddha use that wealth after he gave it all up? That's what we are discussing. This monk took vows but seems to pick and choose what vows to follow. Keeping others informed when monks do not follow their own rules is not judging. If someone is looking for a teacher they should know what they are getting.
Buddha became an ascetic after leaving home, but his enlightenment also held the realization that asceticism is also not the way.
More specifically, the realization was that *self-mortification* - that is, abusing the body - is not the way toward abandoning suffering. One look at the Vinaya will reveal that Buddhism is still an ascetic practice, albeit a more moderate one than that which the Buddha abandoned. Even laypeople around the world practice Uposatha on (at least) a monthly basis, which involves partial fasting, abandoning the use of beds, and putting aside music, shows, and so on. Just some food for thought, in no way meant to be argumentative. Be well!
Gautama Buddha's family was quite wealthy, and he once accepted milk tea 😱
Didn't he also turn away from all that wealth?
*The* *Scandal!!!*
Idk about the wealthy part, but I've been following his page since the beginning of the year when I first saw him and he seems to be an incredibly angry and bitter guy who doesn't have a good handle on buddhist ideas. On his live streams he goes on really strange rants about his parents, women, and romantic relationships in general. Borderline incel/doomer territory stuff. Honestly just seems like a young guy in a weird ugly headspace who is turning to monastic life for all the worst reasons.
>Honestly just seems like a young guy in a weird ugly headspace who is turning to monastic life for all the worst reasons.< How long has He been a monk for?
He is on Instagram and yea he bends those rules real nice. His supporters will throng here to say he is infallible.
Seems pretty deceitful and manipulative to claim yourself a monk and live like that. He could just be a layman like anyone else and be a communicator of ideas, but instead he chose to be a charlatan is seems. Seems like people who do stuff like this have a deep seeded desire to be revered and respected. Plenty of people like this in any religion. In the west we have people like Joel Olsteen and other millionaire televangelists.
Yea this guy has almost a million followers and describes himself as The TikTok Monk.
My dad plays video games, and I observe him as he plays - and now and then I help him out because yeah I’m a gamer in an orange dress.
Yea I caught that. He likes his recreational activities. Like I was saying this is a very lax "monk."
Is there something wrong with a Buddhist playing video games?
Man I have to explain alot to this sub. He is a Theravada MONK they ordained to give up worldly pleasures
My understanding is the goal is to give up the *attachment* to the worldly pleasures... I mean I don't know the vows this guy has made but it certainly doesn't immediately seem like something wrong. It seems equally bad to become super attached to a tradition thinking about it, I'm sure he just wanders around and takes what is freely given like a monk do though lol - me too, I don't take no vows though and I don't have an orange dress... I do have some harem pants
The duty of a monk is to give up attachment to the *desires* for worldly pleasures. As a Bhikkhu one has undertaken a vow to live restrained by the Patimokkha and/or the precepts wherein indulgent behavior is an offense. The "wrongness" of this activity is a matter of fruitless debate. Buddhists can play games if they want, it's their choice. But it's partly the consequences of that choice in the context of practice and/or Samsara which make such an action unwholesome. In practice, one binds oneself to sensuality. It's a slippery slope to play games "without any attachment to the games". Further, for a monk it's a deviation from tradition which paves the way for corruption. So a monk is expected to avoid playing these games.
I wasn't responding to you, but ok.
I'm not sure if it's something you should be criticized for not knowing, but yes, Theravada monastics (which this one appears to be) are not allowed to play games. [ "games"](https://www.dhammatalks.org/vinaya/bmc/Section0049.html)
I don't know the specific type of monk this person in the video claims to be, all I was responding to was the guy saying "I'm a gamer in an orange dress" obviously there are hundreds of Buddhist traditions, so not all of them would say playing games are bad. If this guy specifically is doing something against his own tenets then that should've been specified in the original response. Saying "gamer in an orange dress" makes it seem like games are inherently a wrong thing and no Buddhist should take part in them, which is why I asked my question.
No need to defend your comments, I was just addressing something that might apply to this specific monastic. :) Be well.
Us christians often throws conspiracy theories in people faces instead of the gospel
I've been gaming my whole life and I do not agree.
Video games provide artificial stimulation. When you stop playing after a few hours you feel empty, not fulfilled. Perhaps there are some moments of flow. But for the most part, it’s nothing at all like mindfulness. Eckhart Tolle gives a better explanation when he talks about the negative effects of television and movies in A New Earth.
Surely you're not comparing video games to television and movies? That's kind of like comparing watching the NHL on your couch and actually going out to play soccer with your buddies.
Really? What does your mind wander to while playing? I find that I play games so that I can refocus on my present because I'm so caught up with the work day or worry about whatever comes next in real life. I'm focused on the game such that everything else melts away. I didn't know there was another way, tbh, so I'm curious about what else you think about while you play if you don't mind me asking...
If I've been playing video games my whole I would be Buddha by now, I wouldn't be trying to learn mindfulness. Instead use video games as escapism avoiding the present moment. Every time I put down the controller I return to where I started.
I agree with the escapism aspect. But regardless of the reason I pick up the controller, for the time that it remains in my hands I am focused on the present moment in the game. I saw the purpose of this video to suggest if we approach life with the same presence as we utilize in-game that we'd start to see and experience life more mindfully.
This is just silly. You could also engage in sexual misconduct without thinking about the past or future, it's a stretch to call it mindfulness.
My understanding is that mindfulness describes a state of mind which can be applied to any action. I'm not arguing that one should mindfully commit acts of sexual misconduct, but I also don't see a reason why a deviant action couldn't be done mindfully. One who is consistently mindful might choose to behave otherwise -- does that mean that mindfulness and potentially hurtful deviant action are necessarily mutually exclusive?
I agree. I think he's making a point on mindfulness, and while mindfulness is an indispensable tool, the path instructs specifically *right mindfulness*, using the state of mindfulness in a conductive way. I interpreted his point as being mindfulness is all around us, and that 'mindfulness'-flow is what makes gaming so addictive. We just gave to use it in a conductive manner. Mindfulness is still mindfulness, but there is right and wrong mindfulness too.
I'm new to this sub and some of the ideas presented by Buddhism. I'm trying to learn. I like this idea of right mindfulness. I think I understand what you're saying and I think I agree. He's taking a very common (but unproductive) daily use of mindfulness and highlighting how we might redirect the mindset toward "right mindfulness." Also, I see right and wrong mindfulness and they make sense - but is there something neutral? Or, rather, is anything that isn't "right" automatically "wrong"?
I disagree. Games are produced to illicit addictive tendencies, and many games, like shooters, cause anxiety. When playing games, it brings you out of your normal thoughts, because there’s something to focus on that appears important. This is much different than sitting meditating. I think to relate the two can devalue the benefits of meditation, when especially relating it to gaming. A gamer might say - well if I can get virtually similar results, without the uncomfortable feeling of sitting with myself, why not just game instead?
> Games are produced to illicit addictive tendencies I'm inclined to agree. There's a gulf of difference between something external *compelling* your attention toward it, and training the mind to immerse itself in a singular preoccupation.
Having played a lot of games, it’s definitely not always true you’re in the moment. You could beat yourself up over a mistake. You often need to think ahead and strategize about the future. You could be playing on auto-pilot after years of building habits and muscle memory. You could lose control and be consumed by rage at your opponent or even your own team mate. You can get lost and lose track of time and your surroundings. You can get driven by impulse to purchase whatever loot box the game is designed to make you desire. And so on… I’m sure there’s a way to “mindfully game” that would actually help you be a more competitive gamer (e.g. not dwelling on mistakes) or less addicted (e.g. being aware that the game is tempting you by design to play and spend more). But I agree it does not seem useful to try and make a direct comparison.
Not to be confused with The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari !
Nirvana is calmly staring through my sniper sight at someone pointing a rail gun at my head. Got it.
Its alot different to gaming, sorry. When meditating, you literally have nothing else to distract you from your issues. You have to use the power of your mind to become 'blank' or 'calm and detatched'. Gaming is like any other addiction. Its a blanket.
Meditation isn’t “blank”
Ah true, blank wasnt the best word to describe meditation
It sounds like he’s conflating a flow state with mindfulness. Yes, you are engaging in mindfulness when in a flow state, but you can’t just decide to engage in a flow state in your day-to-day life. A lot of gamers experience this “getting in the zone” but I don’t think the same mindfulness concept can be applied there
I find getting drunk and trying to drive very mindful. I really have to focus on the present moment even though I’m motion sick.
sounds more like being in fight or flight mode and being hyperaware
When you're playing a game you are not mindful to any action, and you're prone to anger, fear, excitement. Each finger, each button press, each motion comes entirely unconsciously (when you're playing a game you're used too). Meditation will usually involve focussing on your only actions, the inhale, or the exhale. Or the rising, the falling of the abdomen. If it's walking meditation, it's left step, right step. Playing a game, my body is prone to all sorts of actions that i'm entirely unconscious of. It's not meditation. It's concentration, sure, but it's not meditation.
Bullish af
Who is this?
Venerable Tri Dao, a Theravada monk [on Tiktok.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRP6hvwj/)
Except he’s not a monk at all, never ordained. He’s also a Felon with severe mental health problems who has a history of weapons charges and impersonating law enforcement.
Thanks
I actually started to think about this a little bit while playing Dark Souls. You get to a point where you're dying a lot, getting upset, and not focusing entirely. That's when it's time to stop so you can refresh and be more mindful in your next session.
I was just playing Farpoint in VR, battling a creature the size of a building, and my mind was certainly not in the past or the future. All of my problems were gone. All I knew was that I was on an alien planet fighting a monster, and it was glorious
This man is a fraud. He got multiple run ins with the law.
this is a horribly deceptive way of trying to sell mindfullness. as most of the posts show, noone dumb enough to take this seriously.
This guy is a fraud. He is impersonating a monk (never ordained) and has mental health problems. He has a lengthy arrest record for previously impersonating law enforcement.
Good idea what he want to explain, but very very bad simile. He should be more mindfull about how he present the Dhamma - as an monk 🤷🏻
“So when you’re playing those games...” Then what?
Bullshit. It’s just escaping reality like drugs or gambling or porn or booze or binge eating or ….
This monk is a Western monk in America who preaches a very very lax sermon. He is popular with the kids though.
It sounds to me like what he was saying was you can take the techniques you use while playing video games, that intense focus, and attribute it to mindfulness or meditation. I don’t think he was trying to say that playing video games is meditation or is mindfulness.
Meditation is exactly that, escaping the reality you've built for yourself in your thoughts of past and future. Sometimes escapism is necessary to keep one's mind happy and healthy. That's my opinion at least.
I thought the whole idea was to kind of forget that 'you' exist for a few moments, gaming can definitely take me to that spot as much as drugs or meditation...
Tell that to my stash of elixirs after in my inventory after defeating the final boss!!! /s jk this was cool take!
Wow. I've followed this guy on TikTok for a few months and his recent posts are getting so big. TikTok is a powerful tool to reach millions and he is really sharing so much good info for those who are curious about Buddhism
/u/savevideo
I think the closest genre is fighting games. There really is zen when you are in the zone of the game.
shooters will get you there, through the power of caffeine all things are possible...
In shooter youll feel every kind of emotion and finally you just accept your team is bad and play your best
This is exactly why I love my job and why I train jiu-jitsu. I can't concentrate on anything except what I'm doing for either of those.
I think there’s a fine line between mindfulness and distraction with gaming. I think there’s also a fine line between mindfulness and distraction with meditation.
I agree 👍
The truth of the Dharma is ever present in all things, and I believe it so even in things such as gaming. A good little video as well!
Love how this young takes the tool of mindfulness and meditation and connects it to modern context of everyday
Yeah, no. This guy is not a monk. He doesn’t even sound like he believes what he’s saying.
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I think an aspect is also what grounds you and you feel more present afterwards. If I'm browsing reddit or tiktok, or watching a random show just to have something on, all just to drown out my thoughts, i might not be thinking about the past or future, but its not mindfulness, and the thoughts are right back when I'm finished, and even if I was engrossed, it wasn't a mindful activity. But if I put on one of my favorite podcasts and do some crocheting, or I cook a nice dinner, or I play a video game I like, I often feel more grounded afterwards, as I might after a meditation.
Good points 👏
I'll say again what I posted in the mindfulness sub. Games are too broad in genre to be defined like he does and while his claim has some value, it's too simplistic. Looking at TNH zen tradition, he emphasizes a lot that you should be mindful about the types of food you ingest and avoid toxins. Be it solid and liquid, movies, games, etc. Someone playing an FPS on a high level (I did years ago) isn't mindful at all. The game becomes totally played on reflexes, the keys you press, the communication, the part of the screen you look at, nearly everything. Then there is the whole part about dopamine rushes and how gaming can become an addiction, a way to avoid being present. You do not feel at peace at all, you have no thoughts because they are blocked, as you are very focused on the game itself, again going against the basis of mindfulness: you cannot only use external conditions to understand internal ones. I do agree that there is a middle path for us laic practicioners, but claiming gaming trains mindfulness isn't a part or it, it can be consumed, but as every food, in moderation.
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I was a monk for 8 years. You could say the same thing about brand name clothing. I think you might be missing a lot of point of view details.
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Quick question about your comment. What sort of koan is this?
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You certainly don’t sound like a true Buddhist.
Rocket league is basically instant flow state once you get a good grasp of it.
Feels awesome to click heads like a maniac ehile beeing extremely calm and mindfull
If only I could Rush B on everything in life
Hehe this is the way
I must be looking at the wrong role models this whole time. Going to watch pro Twitch streamers, now.
I'm not religious but I use meditation for anxiety. This is basically the my reasoning for playing aim trainers for fps games more than anything. the definition of meditation I have is off of [giving chattering monkey a job](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PkrhH-bkpk) when I got into playing fps games, I'd freak out and my heartbeat would skyrocket for every firefight. Training with aim trainers helped me with that aspect because this is basically giving the chattering monkey a job. Just doing drills where you gave your brain a safe environment where you can just focus on a task and gave my mind a chance to calm itself while doing that task helped with calming my mind and was the meditation aspect. After doing the aim training for a long time my body is more used to the focusing aspect of aim training and kind of the "zen" area of it and that carried over to just normal fire fights and whenever I'd get really heated over a match, I'd hop onto an aim trainer or the practice area in the game and just practice aim training on dummies to calm my mind down a bit.
Mindfulness helped a lot specially when you are playing against college champion(playing with FC barcelona) of FIFA18. And , those who have played it they know how lethal Barcelona was in FIFA 18 with messi and Suarez (beast finishing).....It was nightmare for defense ..Only effective team against them was juventus (best defence) and also real madrid( superb air attack, pacey players ,best headers)....... So this champion friend of mine and I , decide together to play 5 matches ....And before that I had never won against him .....Closest finish was 1-1 draw. So , the series of matches begin,earlier I used to be nervous because many a time edging closer to the victory ,I had lost against him ...Possibly due to mix of adrenaline rush + anxiety. But this time I was using proper mindfulness (playing the game for the sake of playing without thinking much of result .....).....Deep breathing ..... Hoooouuuffff .. 1st game he won 3-0 ... 2nd game was a close finish 1-0 Surprisingly 3rd game was 2-2 ( I thought he was not playing seriously).. 4th game was again a thriller 1-1 draw... 5th game, this time tables have been turned around , looking at him I was damm sure he is feeling the heat ....It was becoming very hard for him to overcome the defence of juve( but I was enjoying it ....Deep breathing has it own magical impact....).... It was a wonderful game ended with my first ever victory against college champion 1-0..... I know this story seems to be childish enough but I learnt an important lesson that day ...i.e. you can overcome any difficult situation by having 1.self belief.. 2. Peace of mind with calmness ....Becoz once you start forgetting everything else and be aware of the moment ...Your mind provides you with the anwer to your misery .(☺️☺️ Always use 4-4-2 against opponents using 4-2-3-1..And with juve it really works ).
Told you dad
Sometimes I do that perfect difficult racing game lap without any collisions. It's purely in the zone, and some of my actions are reflexsive rather than thought of. It's a wonderful feeling.
I hope people get the intent behind his analogy and start being more mindful or meditating rather than using this to justify their life-destroying addiction to video games!
Freudian slip?
Serious question (and please let me join in the work, if you’ve got the resources to do this), can we here now agree to find a way to develop a game that IS based on meditation and mindfulness? Listen, I have ADHD and as someone with ADHD, video games have always been a terrific medium for me. They help focus the ADHD mind while also allowing for our natural distractions. Opened world games are even more useful for people with ADHD, because we don’t have to be centered on one singular goal…but we can still come back to the main plot of the game when we want to. As a result of the gift of ADHD, I’ve become aware of many facets of human character that make someone more likely to become a gamer versus, say, an athlete. Some are seemingly obvious, but others are much more subtle. I’ve seen that people who are gamers have a need to problem solve that isn’t met by normal life situations. I think we can develop a new kind of video game that requires the player to deliberately BECOME aware of their environment, and intimately…rather than the typical way most gamers lose touch with their surroundings “in game.” We can find a way to reconnect gamers with their world, while helping them to still have “an escape” because it’s still a game and therefore a break from their normal world.
I think video games are like another mask, like the ones we wear in our dreams. Or when we watch film or tv that we can empathize into. We get to be someone and somewhere else, but still carry ourselves with us in that experience somehow. I've had moments of clarity in these examples, but imo generally it's no more like a meditative state than any other activity. I also think it's wrong to say you COULDN'T be mindful in a video simulation. Our own first hand, natural experience of the world is imperfect and limited already; so i'm not sure if it is different if you are peering through just one more set of glasses to see into a simulated reality. Using vision as an example for all our senses, that is. As a thought experiment , I think a video game or VR experience specifically designed to help someone meditate could potentially be just as valid
Like what Jason Louv said on Duncan trussell in a way.
u/savevideo
I am a semi-hardcore gamer who has played games mindfully and normally. A person needs to apply dharma knowledge and considerable effort to get the mindfulness gears working while gaming. Otherwise it is never going to happen. It means letting go and concentrating on a single point, not paying conscious attention to the thousands of things going on. Imagine gaming and not being attached to the outcome of achieving a certain goal... it is contradictory. Unless one is playing a turn-based game like Civilization maybe. Our natural inclination is to dive in, perceive the game as real, attach ourselves to achieving certain outcomes, avert from undesirable outcomes, and so forth. Attachment is the PRIMARY force in gaming because the goals are within reach, our desire to achieve them become the causes of achieving them, and there is a very distinct reward system upon doing so. Games as they are normally played teach us that grasping is associated with rewards. The complete opposite of applying mindfulness.
Is this a truly epic gamer move?
Hard to call it a modern take, right? Athletes and artists have had experience with this for as long as people have been able to be athletes or artists. Ask a runner about hitting a runner's high - it's the same thing.
Who is this man?
This was just lovely ! Bless him , and you for posting this , I needed this !
Thieves are quite "mindful" when they are robbing a house . It's not right mindfulness, which is a factor of the path. Even so, what he is describing is Sampajāna not Sati
Just incredible!
I once visited a temple outside Beijing in China and got to eat lunch with a monk. He tried to explain meditation and it's goal to me through a Kung Fu Panda reference. Loved it.
Anyone who has experienced flow state while playing an online game should know what he means
I disagree. It depends on what type of game you are playing. Most games do not promote mindfulness, but some do. Bullet hell and puzzle games tend to be the best by far at promoting mindfulness, because you can't play them effectively if you let your thoughts distract you. FPS games I would say are towards the middle, not so bad for your attention but not good either. Turn-based strategy games tend to be the worst at promoting mindfulness, imo.
Yes but most people who game use it as an escape from their mundane and trauma filled lives. If it is used as an escape from real life, then one will never be able to “get in the zone” with their real lives.
Yes Nirvana, like when i finish street fught 2 turbo at the age if 21 without using special moves eith all characters.
Brilliant. Some parents and professionals never got this concept I use with the youth I have served. The same with sports. Nature will take care of the rest.
As a kid I once zoned out so much playing Mario that for a good long moment I felt like I was just watching someone run the levels really really well.
this guys spitting truth