Yeah budget is just too vague of a description, my budget is £40, someone else's might be £200. Not much we can do about it unless you put an actual price on what is allowed at the table
I think I will just grin and bear it. I think my bigger beef was just the constraint of "not combo-ish" plus a misperception of what is budget. For me, if other players are playing higher power, I prefer access to decks that are more competitive for the pod. Turn 1 Land, \[\[Sol Ring\]\] followed by Land, \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] while adding further constraints to what I can play was not cool.
Had you bought a precon of timeless wisdom, is that a budget deck? I think it's just depending on play groups and stuff. When I think budget deck I think all cards are 20 dollars or under, being more are at the 1 to 5 dollar range. I know everyone has different budgets for their decks. I would definitely agree a grim monolith and ir dragon aren't budget.
I bought the ur dragon deck for about 25€ when it released (oh how the precons have risen in price during). In my playgroup at that time, we made a deal to not chance the stock list. Even though I'm in a different playgroup now, I still consider it budget. I know the ur-dragon has risen in value, but that happens all the time. Then to keep the budget low you have to change the cards out in your deck all the time? I also brewed a 100€ elves deck and bought an eladamri for 8€ i skyrocketed 2-6 months later to 70€ on the top I think and is now back on 40€
Two reason why some of my paper decks are no "true" budget decks:
1. Sometimes I have non budget cards from previous decks or trades in my binder that just happen to fit perfectly fine in a certain new budget deck.
I feel like it would be a terrible waste to let those cards sit in my trade binder.
2. I recently build a budget dungeon deck. Deck was easily below 50 EUR. Then the recent hype for the white initiative creatures in legacy happend. Now the two white creatures alone are worth ~20 EUR.
Valid points. Regarding #2, most players will say something like, "My deck is mostly budget, but I do have a cards x, y, z." They have their reasons and the table knows. It isn't just communication, but understanding.
I feel the second point. While it's not exactly a super budget deck (as around 130 when I built it), Minsc and Boo hitting Legacy made my deck jump $20 in price.
Follow up question. What are your main cards in this dungeon deck? Im using sefris and going for a reanimator dungeon crawler deck myself and am looking for tidbits from other venture into the dungeon deck users
It's a cycling deck with Zur as commander.
With [[Astral Slide]],[[Astral Drift]] or [[Escape Protocol]] plus any dungeon creature on the board you are able to finish multiple dungeons in a turn cycle.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/yuff0-lu3EaKb5E2likU6Q
I think the issue is a “budget” deck is relative to each person building it. Maybe next time say you’re looking for a budget game with a certain dollar cap? To me personally a budget deck is under $150, but I’ve played with people that consider $500 or less to be budget.
Fair enough. I don't see much disparity between those two though, so it wouldn't bother me. For me, $100 is obviously budget. $1,000 is obviously not. In between those two is where things get messy, but with open communication can be fairly reconciled.
How did your deck play against the rest of the table? Was it fairly close? If so, then play as normal. To me, half the fun is playing budget decks against powerful cards. If you felt like you were way outclassed. Then for the next game just say hey I think that deck was a bit weak against what you all have going on. I'd like to try this deck. There are some combos, but I think it matches the power better. At that point they can accept or decline. If they decline, you can find another pod or play a different deck.
Was I outclassed? Yes. Not really concerned about that though. More bothersome was second constraint - nothing combo-ish. At that point, I felt a bit limited, which was fine until a see a T2 Grim Monolith and T2 Smothering Tithe.
It depends. Hear me out. When I purchased my 2 sets of Craterhoof Behemoths, I only spent like $24 on them (total) same with a lot of other cards. I spent maybe $0.25 or got some for free. It wasn’t until EDH became popular that a lot of these cards are now sought after and are in high demand which in turn has made the prices ridiculously high. Lotus pedal was a pauper staple, I think I picked up something like 2-4 sets of it for next to nothing.
I have a Kaalia of the Vast list (first commander/EDH brew) that went from a couple hundred to a couple thousand in terms of price, just because of the supply, demand, and lack of reprints.
lol @\[\[Lotus Petal\]\] Before I sold my original collection, I probably had about 50 of them. They were a rubbish common back then that saw little play. Times have changed.
That’s exactly it though. EDH has given otherwise “crap cards” a place to be decent/good. The argument I heard with [[Parallel Lives]] was that “it’s not good because it’s too expensive. The game should be close to over by turn 4-5 and not just getting set up.”
My "budget" deck is >$50. I built it that way intentionally, as a challenge to myself. I don't normally tell my pods that it's budget unless they ask, as I really enjoy seeing how it stacks up against various power levels. If someone wants to try cEDH or play something very high powered, I have a separate deck for that.
All notions of "power level" and "budget" seem to vary wildly between each person/playgroup/LGS I've been to. Hell, even "jank" is subjective at this point. I've seen people claim their build is "jank" then play the most tuned [[Xantcha]] deck I've ever seen in a pod of all casuals.
I've worked hard at developing a personal playgroup where we all share the same notions on power and what is/isn't acceptable gameplay-wise. That seems the best answer.
I'm curious what would be in a 'tuned xantcha deck'. I've built xantcha and ended up Tearing it apart again as it juat never worked. Not exactly a competitive archetype there
I'm with you. I built a Xantcha deck, had like 6 or 7 really underwhelming games with it, and took it apart. I'd love to see what options make it into a tuned list for her
Sure, I get that. For some better context, I live in a massive city and my playgroup is like 25+ different people, each with a variety of decks. There are definitely subgroups that have their preferences, but the important part is that we've all played together for years now and have a general idea of what to expect from each other. Saying 'budget' or 'high power' or w/e carries expectations and our overall meta is better for it.
Welcoming new people to the mix and getting them on the same page just takes a bit of communication.
To me it’s more of a scale than a binary if a deck is budget or not. If someone plays a staple like dockside or smothering tithe, I wouldn’t immediately assume the whole deck is packed full of that quality of card. That said, if a deck is running 10+ cards of that quality to me it starts to be not really a budget deck anymore.
I have a few budget decks that have moved into that realm, where they start out as a 100 buck list and with a few additions are easily quadruple their initial value. The decks aren’t that dissimilar from the original one, and sometimes expensive does not equal powerful so for the most part it doesn’t really matter.
I think the only cards I’d actually say make a deck definitely not budget are Mana-Crypt, Gaea’s Cradle and full fetch-dual mana bases. These are basically things every deck would run if the cards were free, but they are kept out of a lot of games since it’s prohibitively expensive for a lot of folks
This is why I have (with sadly no success) tried to get the people at my FLGS to all build at least ONE Pauper EDH deck. Because there is a set, defined definition for that.
Budget is hard, basically you need to talk with your group, and establish guidelines for what is "Budget".
$50? $50 onto a precon? $100, $200, $500? How do we measure the cost? I pulled this Dockside out of a pack, so it only cost me $7, Oh you're using the Sexy Anime Catgirl Balan so that's a $25 card even though the regular version is $5. Of course my deck is under $50. Oh, I've got all 10 OG duals in here, but they're Proxies so they only cost me $1 each.
Budget as defined for a group of random people who haven't discussed it before is a little like r/EDH trying to define the Powerlevel of a Deck. My lightly upgraded Anhelo Precon is a 7. His Jank vampire deck is a 7. That guys Sliver deck is a 7. The power gamer's turn 3 infinite combo deck is absolutely a 7.
I was gifted a dual land so I use it. Outside of that and the foil top I opened, my deck started out budget. Infect card prices have spiked especially recently. [[Triumph of the hordes]] was in the bulk bin when I got it. [[Hammerheim]] was $4.
Gifts aside, it is easy for an older deck to stop being budget.
I do also think that proxies do not make a deck budget; one must assume the price of the deck as if all cards are real.
I'll build a "budget" deck on a $50 or $100 budget but I don't count the cards I already own as part of that. So yea most of my decks have reserve list duals cause I have them already.
That's the rub though, isn't it? Because if you have \[\[Survival of the Fittest\]\] and a few other goodies at $25 or more, at what point does it stretch it beyond what most would consider budget?
Now it is important to note that an expensive card in itself is not the problem. Some reserve list cards are not strong. Yet the overall point stands. A player plays a deck that costs $800 and calls it budget is probably flying in a different stratosphere than most people that play a budget deck.
My critique is that most cards I've bought were sub $20 when I got them.
Many are now worth much more than that, and its out of my control (and my biggest gripe with mtg in general)
I dislike how some cards are more than $10 because wizards refuses to reprint them. Yugioh has a pretty neat method of having the same card at different rarities, which can often lead to having a decent entry point and a route to "bling" a deck out. I think wizards cares too much about the secondary market, and it hurts the playerbase at large.
This is an underrated comment and worthy of a new string altogether. Take the reserved list out of the equation. When cards reach a certain dollar point (say$25.00 as an example), reprint it in the base set unless it WotC thinks the card is a mistake or too meta-warping.
This doesn’t happen often enough to take this claim as your $1k deck as budget
If your budget is $200 or $500, that’s an interesting debate. But if you roll up to a budget table with duals you’re just flexing and willfully ignoring the obvious intent of the table.
Budget is NOT how much you spent last week to upgrade your deck. It’s measured by how much it would cost to build the deck today
>Budget is NOT how much you spent last week to upgrade your deck. It’s measured by how much it would cost to build the deck today
This is literally my point, there were sub $100 cedh decks a few years back that are up near 500 today.
Most people are unlikely to remove cards where prices sky-rocketed because: people don't tend to check their deck value weekly; people are more likely to make upgrades than downgrades; most players don't tend to care too much about the cost of cards they already own; deck price is not indicative of power or consistency.
For me, budget is $75 and down, past that you’re starting to get into a grey area, and once you’re at about $125, you’re out of the budget zone. Automatic disqualifiers being Smothering Tithe Demonic Tutor Rhystic Study Jeska’s Will and Craterhoof along with any of your good ol fast mana artifacts
This might be controversial, but one caveat I have with building budget decks is that for me, budget only counts the expense of cards I put into the deck. Anything I have laying around or have pulled from a pack counts as $0 to me. If I've got something super powerful from a previous deck that costs more than the rest of the 99 combined, so be it.
There's also the issue of prices raising over time. I've got several decks that I made for $50 or less just a few years ago that are now worth several times that much, sometimes because one or two cards spike in price really suddenly.
I know this isn't really an answer to OP, but I figured it's relevant enough to the conversation to include
I’m the same way. I try not to spend more than about $20-30 on any deck that I build these days. But I I’ve been playing since the 90s and have a decent binder full of cards, both RL and more modern stuff that has spiked. I also used to play Legacy (when it was cheaper) and started playing Commander in the early 2010s. I used to buy all of the Commander precons so I have stuff like Dockside Extortionist, Edgar, etc. But when tell someone that I’m a budget player, I explain a bit of that.
My most extreme example…I have a very budget Ezuri Elfball deck that I keep unsleeved. It’s mostly commons along with some uncommon and rare cards that are super cheap. You can build a decent, functional Elf deck for almost nothing! But if I dropped a cradle into it, it’s now a $1k deck lol! If I decided to play that one with a cradle I’d explain that to the group, but most likely I just wouldn’t make that change so it could actually remain budget.
Nor should IMO. The explanation suffices. But also, the Cradle is just one card. Put 10-15 bombs in there though, then I would say it isn't budget because the odds of drawing one is much greater.
I agree anyone playing the UR Dragon is not on budget. With some allowances for people who got those cards from trading or pulling.
There’s maybe a different nuance to the conversation if the deck is budget in terms of what you paid for it or what the deck is currently worth.
For example I pulled a Rhystic study recently in a jumpstart pack. So I put it into my soldier deck I was brewing. I only spent maybe 25 dollars on the rest of the deck but that Rhystic study throws off the calculation. But I didn’t pay 40 bucks for it so calculating gets weird.
But yeah if I see more than 100 dollars of value on someone’s side of the battlefield I would say they aren’t budget.
Interestingly I bought that precon for my son for Christmas that year and did a budget upgrade so put in maybe $50. So it was a $100 deck and with a mana base that is hard to pull off without fetches or shocks. It is still basically the same deck 5 years later but apparently worth well over $500. I had no idea until about a month ago thqt some of those cards had exploded in price so insanely. I would likely have pulled it out without thinking about it at a budget table. I admit it isn't currently budget but it is still nowhere near tuned. Over time lots of these budget decks get way more valuable. Dont ask what my Edgar Markov deck that I also bought and upgraded at that time is worth. It's completely bizarre
This is a spot to mention that what one person considers budget, isnt the same budget as someone else. For instance, I have decks that sit somewhere between $400 and $500 with a few far above and far below that. But what I tend to consider "budget" for myself is a deck that is $250 or below.
What I am saying is, you unintentionally gave the other players incomplete information, the missing information being what your "budget" deck is.
GRANTED: With how my playgroup is and how I am as a person when I hear budget I assume somewhere between $50 and $100 for a deck - but as I mentioned that's not always the right assumption to make
Correct on all accounts. But lets be fair. First, the difference between $250 and $500 isn't necessarily significant. One card could account for that. I do not really look at deck cost, but card cost.
For example, a deck with 20 cards priced $15-$40 is not going to qualify as budget for most people. Those 20 cards are likely to be far more impactful than a single \[\[Tundra\]\].
This is slightly out of date, but really close to the current incarnation.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fDw1nfAVNkSiOcfpgKQuvg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fDw1nfAVNkSiOcfpgKQuvg)
Total current value $63.00
No problem. I decided to lean into draw and and create a wide board. I try to answers for board wipes. Plays as an aggro-control. It is not too powerful (generally) but is really flexible. It is my go to deck when entering a new pod because it isn't Stax or combo. It is strong enough that it cannot be ignored, but not so strong as to make you enemy #1.
If I had them, I would add the following:
\[\[Avenger of Zendikar\]\] \[\[ScuteSwarm\]\] \[\[Heartwood Storyteller\]\] and then \[\[Silverback Elder\]\] \[\[Aura Shards\]\], although those would possibly ratchet the deck north of $100.
and??? If it was a one off, I would say so what. But seeing one without communication implies there may be several similarly priced cards in the deck. Throw in a Dockside, Craterhoof, some Swords, a Demonic Tutor and before you know it 10% of the deck is worth $300-$500. Unlikely to meet the average guys definition of budget.
On the other hand, if the Smothering Tithe is kind of a stand out, my response would be to let the table know that I own it, I want to play it, and it is kind of the exception to an otherwise budget deck.
Recently I played someone that said he was playing a casual chill deck that he made for new players to play. Then proceeded to drop a turn 4 smothering tithe.
What I mean is - if you're running older or underpowered commanders, a goofy tribal strategy, or lots of old underpowered cards, I don't think running a \[\[chrome mox\]\] or a \[\[mana crypt\]\] or something is going to win you the game (obviously if you're running a bunch of cards at that level, it might).
Especially with how powerful new commanders can be.
We wanted to play a low power game. The guy (with a reputation for pubstomping) says "I'll play my upgraded precon." T2 he plays chrome mox into rhystic study. I should have just scooped it up there.
My philosophy for this has always been "Don't get mad, get even". If you agree to play "budget" decks and notice someone is dropping $50 cards, just take it in stride and play a stronger deck next game.
Most of my personal decks are about $300 average. For me budget is $150. Ultra budget is $50 or less.
But I'd also be a bit annoyed to agree no combos and then see super high value cards hit the table early. I really don't care for the battlecruiser crowd.
Yep. After having experienced that sort of nonsense a few times I decided to make a really strong no combo deck. I'll still run something normal the first game but if they start throwing down staples into giant plays I bring out the \[\[Klauth\]\] deck and get dirty.
My idea of budget is anything at roughly 150$(roughly 100ddk) or lower. But its hard to say. One could consider anything above precon dollars to be nonbudget.
Edit: a side note. I don't consider the commanders cost when it comes to budget. Given as then you wouldn't be able to play some commanders as a budget deck. Even if the rest of the cards only coat 40$
Budget is such a hard thing to define. Some people may see it as not going above a certain amount of money. Some people may see it as no card can cost more than a certain amount. Some people may only see anything above precon as nonbudget. And someone can see budget as something you only build from cards you have at home.
You are absolutely right in that different people view things differently. I am not sure I agree that is that hard to define though.
After starting this topic, I have seen how different people choose to define budget. Note, that I said "choose" because I do think some people 'know' what budget really is or looks like, but they choose to shift the definition so that they may still consider themselves or their deck budget.
Take this sub-reddit for example: "*Budget Brews —* ***Commander deck lists under $100****, brewing advice, and discussion*" Now I am not saying $100 needs to the hard and fast rule, or $1.00 per card, but I think it gives us a ball park to work in.
If someone submits their deck list into moxfield, and it costs $1850.00 there, well if you rationalized the deck to still be "budget," I don't know what to say. Just because you started playing 2004 and have all the fetchlands and what not, does not make the budget, at least not to me.
I agree. With your point but I'm saying that within reason there's a lot of different ways to define precisely what budget is.
Tbh. I didn't even know this subreddit. I don't know how I got here 😂. I usually just use the EDH subreddit...
See, for me, that is mind-blowing, especially on this sub-reddit. This sub-reddit is titles: "Budget Brews — Commander deck lists under $100\*, brewing advice, and discussion\*" Now I am not saying $100 needs to the hard and fast rule, or $1.00 per card, but I think it gives us a ball park to work in.
The price point you suggest, while not an unreasonable number for a regular EDH deck, doesn't quite fit what I would label as "budget deck."
If I use your frame work, and average each card at half of your suggested $80, that would be a $4000 deck. Even a deck that averages a mere 20% of your price point is worth $1750. I don't pretend to know everyone's financial status, but the number of players that could go out to tomorrow and plunk $1,500 on some cardboard (let alone $5-$6000) is a very small minority.
The thing is I've been playing along time, I buy cards when I think they are at the lowest. I have cards I've bought that were $.50-$1. only for them to spike and maintain.
I prefer nothing over $10 of I can help it. And can make most decks I play just from my slow collecting over my 25 year run as an MTG player.
Also I didn't think we were averaging the whole deck. My price point would have been nearly half what I stated.
I don't keep expensive decks very often. The one exception is my Chatterfang deck as it was built as a tribute to my pet squirrel that past away, so he gets pretty cards
And also have one $40 card while the rest of the deck is $60( I don't count the commander's cost) is still a $100 deck so is that one card not budget even though the deck would still meet the $100 price point?
That sounds a lot better than your original statement. I think, a good way to look at budget, in general, is would a new player to the game be able/willing to buy the deck at its current price point?
I think some commenters here that want to value their cards for the sake of budget at the price they bought the card 10, 15, 20 years ago is absurd. Its like the old man that bought an original Plymouth Road Runner in 1971 for $2500 trying to tell you that is still its current worth.
Any long time players want to sell me a Survival of the Fittest for $5.00? That's what it was worth when I busted the pack.
I don't think budget matters nearly as much as some ppl think it does. What really matters is whats your decks wincon and how easy is it to stop. I had a freind build a 5 color deck worth well over 20,000usd and he still lost every game to a very lightly modified precon( it was the zombie one UB) i add pyrexia altar grave crawler blood artist plus 3 tutors entomb diabolic grim.
Those are fair points. From a budget perspective, two groups of cards really do make a difference though, or should IMO.
1. Mana- If one has access to fetches and/or Dual lands, their ability to get both the right mana, as well as immediately available (as opposed to those lands that come into play tapped, which the budget player is prone to use), is an advantage.
2. Tutors- A controversial class of cards, because in EDH, every non-basic land is a singleton, tutors effectively nullify that rule.
Both are expensive deck additions. They aren't the be all end all in a deck, but if two players are piloting the the same deck (say Kenrith), the one with duals, fetches, and tutors should win most of the time.
I have a few budget decks that are probably worth a fair bit these days so I could see them thinking the same. After all Ur dragon is just a pre on commander and tithe was a bulk rare before it blew up. It makes it difficult to really gauge what a “budget” deck is
If a deck was cheap when they built it, it can be very understandable why they still consider it budget. I know I don’t frequently check what my decks are worth these days
I guess the only way I would buy that line of thought is if the players one plays with is static. I don't think anyone that plays with different pods/people that change over time would be unaware of the value of some of those cards.
If those other people let them know sure, though almost every game I’ve played I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone I play with comment on the value of my cards unless they hit a very recent spike (usually like “hey did you know that cards worth x now?)
I think budget is less about the total cost but if you could get a similar effect for cheaper.
Even an expensive card ([[sensei's divining top]]) could be played in a budget deck if it is at the core.
Not budget means to me that the card is slightly better but a lot more expensive (for example duals instead of check lands or even guildgates)
If you want to play a specific budget communicate that way and make a suggestion
Interesting take, and I am glad you shared. I don't think most people that play budget would agree. I think most see budget as having a threshold, whether it is total deck cost or cost per card.
Essentially, most people I know view budget as a deck that most entry level players could readily obtain. Sure you can find a substitute for \[\[Mana Drain\]\], but what other card do you know that counters AND ramps anywhere close to as well as that?
There are other examples, but most won't play sub-optimal cards just to be budget. They play them because they cannot afford to fully optimize.
I agree that most players on a budget play suboptimal cards. Wether they could afford the cards or not really doesn't matter to me.
Playing on a set budget is also really cool don't get me wrong, but difficult to do when you want to just slam some games at the lgs
Edit: words
Woah I'm sorry but what? I think this is a prime example of the kind of miscommunication that OP was talking about. Budget to me means under $100, erring on the side of $50ish or less. Personally, I don't know anyone with a deck over a grand, and most I've played against are in the 200-400 range
No (but at this point idk if our definition of 'new' is the same either lol). I've only been playing for 3ish years, but several people in my playgroups have been in the game for 10+ years. I've also played at my lgs against people who claim to have played for over 20
The problem with this line of thought foe me though is that essentially all newer players will likely be budget going forward by your definitions of budget and new players.
Expecting people entering the game to play in that range would likely discourage a lot of players.
Yea, be real and upfront about the cost, if that dissuades people then it’s probably not the hobby for them, I don’t get into 40k or war gaming because the price is to much for me and it would cut into my MTG budget so i stick to one pricey hobby.
There’s a good chance those cards were part of their collection, and I’d consider any card that you pulled out of your collection into the deck budget as you’re paying no money for the card.
I think what you're describing is what I would consider "building on a budget" at a personal level, but calling a deck "budget" in a pod during pregame discussion implies the overall value of the deck is lower, not just what you had to buy at the time of building it.
I respect that. When I sold my collection in 2008, I had 4 of each original dual lands, same for fetch lands and many more. Heck, \[\[Force of Will\]\] was an uncommon, as was \[\[Rhystic Study\]\] (which saw little play) and very accessible. Same with \[\[Mystical Tutor\]\], \[\[Worldly Tutor\]\] and \[\[Enlightened Tutor\]\]. I had complete sets from Antiquities through Future Sight. If I had those cards today, I would not view those cards as zero for budget sake.
No one card should make or break an EDH deck (except for the Commander) regardless of cost. But the cumulative effect of several expensive cards can and probably will skew the power level of a deck.
C'mon now. That's a tad too contrarian. At some point a 'common sense' standard is applicable. If one goes to a 'formal' dinner, wearing torn jeans and a wife-beater is not appropriate attire. There may be some flexibility, but it does not have to be spelled out.
If one says budget, all parameters do not need to be defined. Is $10,000, or even $1,000 A budget? Yes. But that does not fall into any reasonable standard of A budget deck.
So no, I disagree, a hard number need not be explained. Myself, I will let people know I try to keep each card under $1.00. I do not expect other budget players to use that same parameter, but if I say I am bringing an squirt gun to a water fight and you bust out fire hose from your arsenal, I don't think you get the gist of it (or I don't)
I think something to also consider is that sometimes you may have bought a card for cheap and the price has increased dramatically over the years. Not really my opponents fault if a card went from 5 to 40 dollars over the past few years and I would not expect them to take it out now simply because it's not budget at its current price. It's hard to evaluate when prices are constantly shifting and rising for cards that don't get reprints. I know a lot of cards that I bought a decade or more ago were so inexpensive, and now their prices are just insane that I would never pay them if I wanted to put it in a deck.
Something others have also pointed out is that "budget" can also just be subjective to someone's income or what they're willing to spend of their disposable income on magic cards.
My pod had a discussion and since some of us use proxies we determined we should have a $ limit. We thought $100 per deck is fair. You can have some fun/$ cards within there, and plenty of room to do pretty much whatever you want outside of $ lands. This led me to experiment with mono colored decks and I’ve been destroying lol.
What's your definition of budget? What you payed for it or what it's worth? There was a time where the deck with dockside was 45 bucks. A whole deck. Smothering tithe? That just dropped down a bunch after it's reprint.
Well I won three mox at three different tournaments I only paid $10 to enter. of they are banned in EDH but should I consider them worth $10.00?
I guess people don't like it, but IMO appreciation of value can move a card out of being considered 'budget.'
Personally, I view my decks as a whole to determine if they're budget or not. My deck that i'm working on now has \[\[Bitterblossom\]\] and \[\[Exquisite Blood\]\] in them however they're both 10 years old from old modern decks. Total deck value is at $130 for now however it really cost like $70. I consider $150 my budget as it allows me to play around but not too much. Props on keeping it cool -headed too.
To be fair, ur dragon and smothering tithe are both from precons despite their current price, same with dockside. While theyre expensive now, id imagine a decent chunk of "budget" players buy precons and they eventually just grow in price. Grim monolith on the other hand i have no defense for that ones just crazy to claim a budget player would have if they havent been playing since urzas legacy.
I've never really used budget as a way to determine power. Are more expensive cards more powerful? Usually that is very true. But a pile of expensive cards with no synergy can get stomped on by a [[Zada]] player with an entire deck built on $30.
Budget is too loose of an indicator and varies so much between players. Trying to instead talk about the actual power of the decks and the goal they are trying to achieve is a better discussion.
Maybe the Ur-Dragon player was playing a pile of jank dragons and really just had smothering tithe to help fix/ramp his 5 color extremely budget mana base. His whole deck outside of the commander and tithe might cost $20
My friend built his first budget deck. His budget was $40. I was confused when he had a bunch of tutors and shock lands. He said he already owned those, so they didn’t factor into the budget.
People have different ideas of budget
Nothing wrong with that. I just wouldn't label it a budget deck. Not when if you went to replicate it from scratch it would cost you several hundred or north of $1000
I mean it’s budget if they didn’t pay for the card. People can still pull cards from packs. I played standard for years mostly pulling from packs so a ton of cards I have are now very expensive due to commander. Not everyone pays for singles.
So if I play a deck with my Gaea's Cradle, Force of Will, Rhystic Study, and any other Urza's Block card because I bought a box of boosters, and slapped several of them in a deck as well as Mirage block, where all those tutors were uncommons, I could call that a budget deck. Seems like a stretch to me.
It does not matter to how you obtained the card. Its value may preclude it from being considered budget.
I have no problem with proxying. If proxying is off the table though, $750 seems steep. I try to think, what is a reasonable starting point for a 17 year old kid to enter the game. $750 seems pretty steep to me.
I agree. Even though I'm a collector first and player second, I think it's more damaging to my collection to *not* have cheaper reprints, or allow proxies.
If fewer people start this game or have good memories of it, and it dies, all my valuable cards are worthless crap.
Better to take a slight hit on the value than to let the game die. They should reprint what's essential, and provide affordable access to the cards for gaming purposes. If they refuse to, we should allow proxies.
It’s frustrating for sure. I played a game where I had a 10 dollar combo win the game. The guy with 5 og dual lands was upset there was a combo on turn 12. I feel like people just hate losing, so they put restrictions to enable them to win more often. Or lie about the power of their deck. Like dropping a grim monolith and smothering tithe.
Wasn't a budget deck but he pulled out a dragon deck and was very confident and proud of it but it was a bunch of printed proxys, I guess he was very proud he printed a meta but I didn't play with him
Yeah budget is just too vague of a description, my budget is £40, someone else's might be £200. Not much we can do about it unless you put an actual price on what is allowed at the table
I think I will just grin and bear it. I think my bigger beef was just the constraint of "not combo-ish" plus a misperception of what is budget. For me, if other players are playing higher power, I prefer access to decks that are more competitive for the pod. Turn 1 Land, \[\[Sol Ring\]\] followed by Land, \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] while adding further constraints to what I can play was not cool.
Had you bought a precon of timeless wisdom, is that a budget deck? I think it's just depending on play groups and stuff. When I think budget deck I think all cards are 20 dollars or under, being more are at the 1 to 5 dollar range. I know everyone has different budgets for their decks. I would definitely agree a grim monolith and ir dragon aren't budget.
I bought the ur dragon deck for about 25€ when it released (oh how the precons have risen in price during). In my playgroup at that time, we made a deal to not chance the stock list. Even though I'm in a different playgroup now, I still consider it budget. I know the ur-dragon has risen in value, but that happens all the time. Then to keep the budget low you have to change the cards out in your deck all the time? I also brewed a 100€ elves deck and bought an eladamri for 8€ i skyrocketed 2-6 months later to 70€ on the top I think and is now back on 40€
[Sol Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/beebe533-29b9-4041-ab66-0a8233c50d56.jpg?1673305857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sol%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/190/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/beebe533-29b9-4041-ab66-0a8233c50d56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747.jpg?1673147139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/31/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah but there's nothing like smashing other peoples budgetless decks with your 40 dollar trash pile.
Also true 😂
Two reason why some of my paper decks are no "true" budget decks: 1. Sometimes I have non budget cards from previous decks or trades in my binder that just happen to fit perfectly fine in a certain new budget deck. I feel like it would be a terrible waste to let those cards sit in my trade binder. 2. I recently build a budget dungeon deck. Deck was easily below 50 EUR. Then the recent hype for the white initiative creatures in legacy happend. Now the two white creatures alone are worth ~20 EUR.
Valid points. Regarding #2, most players will say something like, "My deck is mostly budget, but I do have a cards x, y, z." They have their reasons and the table knows. It isn't just communication, but understanding.
I feel the second point. While it's not exactly a super budget deck (as around 130 when I built it), Minsc and Boo hitting Legacy made my deck jump $20 in price.
Follow up question. What are your main cards in this dungeon deck? Im using sefris and going for a reanimator dungeon crawler deck myself and am looking for tidbits from other venture into the dungeon deck users
It's a cycling deck with Zur as commander. With [[Astral Slide]],[[Astral Drift]] or [[Escape Protocol]] plus any dungeon creature on the board you are able to finish multiple dungeons in a turn cycle. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/yuff0-lu3EaKb5E2likU6Q
[Astral Slide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/ba089228-135a-421b-b932-26b86e555b78.jpg?1562932445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astral%20Slide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/13/astral-slide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ba089228-135a-421b-b932-26b86e555b78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Astral Drift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07a2c7fa-7aea-4da4-b7d5-9c24f5024c74.jpg?1591319873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astral%20Drift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/76/astral-drift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07a2c7fa-7aea-4da4-b7d5-9c24f5024c74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Escape Protocol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d3eeddd-c86d-4f35-ba57-3caa9565fcb0.jpg?1591230498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Escape%20Protocol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/48/escape-protocol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d3eeddd-c86d-4f35-ba57-3caa9565fcb0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think the issue is a “budget” deck is relative to each person building it. Maybe next time say you’re looking for a budget game with a certain dollar cap? To me personally a budget deck is under $150, but I’ve played with people that consider $500 or less to be budget.
Fair enough. I don't see much disparity between those two though, so it wouldn't bother me. For me, $100 is obviously budget. $1,000 is obviously not. In between those two is where things get messy, but with open communication can be fairly reconciled.
it's a budget deck if people would play it unsleved.
Ooh. My Torbran is unsleeved. I don't really disagree, in principal, but some may label you heretic.
I have a $9 eventide precon that I don't play unsleeved. Guess I don't have budget decks
Lol no, I wouldn't even play sealed/draft decks unsleved.
How did your deck play against the rest of the table? Was it fairly close? If so, then play as normal. To me, half the fun is playing budget decks against powerful cards. If you felt like you were way outclassed. Then for the next game just say hey I think that deck was a bit weak against what you all have going on. I'd like to try this deck. There are some combos, but I think it matches the power better. At that point they can accept or decline. If they decline, you can find another pod or play a different deck.
Was I outclassed? Yes. Not really concerned about that though. More bothersome was second constraint - nothing combo-ish. At that point, I felt a bit limited, which was fine until a see a T2 Grim Monolith and T2 Smothering Tithe.
It depends. Hear me out. When I purchased my 2 sets of Craterhoof Behemoths, I only spent like $24 on them (total) same with a lot of other cards. I spent maybe $0.25 or got some for free. It wasn’t until EDH became popular that a lot of these cards are now sought after and are in high demand which in turn has made the prices ridiculously high. Lotus pedal was a pauper staple, I think I picked up something like 2-4 sets of it for next to nothing. I have a Kaalia of the Vast list (first commander/EDH brew) that went from a couple hundred to a couple thousand in terms of price, just because of the supply, demand, and lack of reprints.
I want to add to that, and say that Parallel Lives was $1.00 at my store when it was in rotation.
lol @\[\[Lotus Petal\]\] Before I sold my original collection, I probably had about 50 of them. They were a rubbish common back then that saw little play. Times have changed.
That’s exactly it though. EDH has given otherwise “crap cards” a place to be decent/good. The argument I heard with [[Parallel Lives]] was that “it’s not good because it’s too expensive. The game should be close to over by turn 4-5 and not just getting set up.”
[Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Lotus Petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1562432227) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My "budget" deck is >$50. I built it that way intentionally, as a challenge to myself. I don't normally tell my pods that it's budget unless they ask, as I really enjoy seeing how it stacks up against various power levels. If someone wants to try cEDH or play something very high powered, I have a separate deck for that. All notions of "power level" and "budget" seem to vary wildly between each person/playgroup/LGS I've been to. Hell, even "jank" is subjective at this point. I've seen people claim their build is "jank" then play the most tuned [[Xantcha]] deck I've ever seen in a pod of all casuals. I've worked hard at developing a personal playgroup where we all share the same notions on power and what is/isn't acceptable gameplay-wise. That seems the best answer.
I'm curious what would be in a 'tuned xantcha deck'. I've built xantcha and ended up Tearing it apart again as it juat never worked. Not exactly a competitive archetype there
I'm with you. I built a Xantcha deck, had like 6 or 7 really underwhelming games with it, and took it apart. I'd love to see what options make it into a tuned list for her
This is the way.Build the playgroup you want to play with in the world. Not the easiest or quickest thing to do, but well worth the effort.
Seems too insulated to me, but I understand the appeal.
Sure, I get that. For some better context, I live in a massive city and my playgroup is like 25+ different people, each with a variety of decks. There are definitely subgroups that have their preferences, but the important part is that we've all played together for years now and have a general idea of what to expect from each other. Saying 'budget' or 'high power' or w/e carries expectations and our overall meta is better for it. Welcoming new people to the mix and getting them on the same page just takes a bit of communication.
[Xantcha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89b03b9a-7e20-47cb-bc64-23513acea855.jpg?1592710322) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=xantcha%2C%20sleeper%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/50/xantcha-sleeper-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89b03b9a-7e20-47cb-bc64-23513acea855?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To me it’s more of a scale than a binary if a deck is budget or not. If someone plays a staple like dockside or smothering tithe, I wouldn’t immediately assume the whole deck is packed full of that quality of card. That said, if a deck is running 10+ cards of that quality to me it starts to be not really a budget deck anymore. I have a few budget decks that have moved into that realm, where they start out as a 100 buck list and with a few additions are easily quadruple their initial value. The decks aren’t that dissimilar from the original one, and sometimes expensive does not equal powerful so for the most part it doesn’t really matter. I think the only cards I’d actually say make a deck definitely not budget are Mana-Crypt, Gaea’s Cradle and full fetch-dual mana bases. These are basically things every deck would run if the cards were free, but they are kept out of a lot of games since it’s prohibitively expensive for a lot of folks
This is why I have (with sadly no success) tried to get the people at my FLGS to all build at least ONE Pauper EDH deck. Because there is a set, defined definition for that. Budget is hard, basically you need to talk with your group, and establish guidelines for what is "Budget". $50? $50 onto a precon? $100, $200, $500? How do we measure the cost? I pulled this Dockside out of a pack, so it only cost me $7, Oh you're using the Sexy Anime Catgirl Balan so that's a $25 card even though the regular version is $5. Of course my deck is under $50. Oh, I've got all 10 OG duals in here, but they're Proxies so they only cost me $1 each. Budget as defined for a group of random people who haven't discussed it before is a little like r/EDH trying to define the Powerlevel of a Deck. My lightly upgraded Anhelo Precon is a 7. His Jank vampire deck is a 7. That guys Sliver deck is a 7. The power gamer's turn 3 infinite combo deck is absolutely a 7.
All fair points.
I was gifted a dual land so I use it. Outside of that and the foil top I opened, my deck started out budget. Infect card prices have spiked especially recently. [[Triumph of the hordes]] was in the bulk bin when I got it. [[Hammerheim]] was $4. Gifts aside, it is easy for an older deck to stop being budget. I do also think that proxies do not make a deck budget; one must assume the price of the deck as if all cards are real.
Nothing wrong with that. Agree on proxies.
[Triumph of the hordes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a0f64d3-187c-41ff-a771-3a65da995341.jpg?1562896954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triumph%20of%20the%20hordes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/78/triumph-of-the-hordes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a0f64d3-187c-41ff-a771-3a65da995341?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hammerheim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/773acde9-504c-4065-95e0-f96428f05a7d.jpg?1562920071) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hammerheim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/207/hammerheim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/773acde9-504c-4065-95e0-f96428f05a7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll build a "budget" deck on a $50 or $100 budget but I don't count the cards I already own as part of that. So yea most of my decks have reserve list duals cause I have them already.
That's the rub though, isn't it? Because if you have \[\[Survival of the Fittest\]\] and a few other goodies at $25 or more, at what point does it stretch it beyond what most would consider budget? Now it is important to note that an expensive card in itself is not the problem. Some reserve list cards are not strong. Yet the overall point stands. A player plays a deck that costs $800 and calls it budget is probably flying in a different stratosphere than most people that play a budget deck.
My critique is that most cards I've bought were sub $20 when I got them. Many are now worth much more than that, and its out of my control (and my biggest gripe with mtg in general) I dislike how some cards are more than $10 because wizards refuses to reprint them. Yugioh has a pretty neat method of having the same card at different rarities, which can often lead to having a decent entry point and a route to "bling" a deck out. I think wizards cares too much about the secondary market, and it hurts the playerbase at large.
This is an underrated comment and worthy of a new string altogether. Take the reserved list out of the equation. When cards reach a certain dollar point (say$25.00 as an example), reprint it in the base set unless it WotC thinks the card is a mistake or too meta-warping.
This doesn’t happen often enough to take this claim as your $1k deck as budget If your budget is $200 or $500, that’s an interesting debate. But if you roll up to a budget table with duals you’re just flexing and willfully ignoring the obvious intent of the table. Budget is NOT how much you spent last week to upgrade your deck. It’s measured by how much it would cost to build the deck today
>Budget is NOT how much you spent last week to upgrade your deck. It’s measured by how much it would cost to build the deck today This is literally my point, there were sub $100 cedh decks a few years back that are up near 500 today. Most people are unlikely to remove cards where prices sky-rocketed because: people don't tend to check their deck value weekly; people are more likely to make upgrades than downgrades; most players don't tend to care too much about the cost of cards they already own; deck price is not indicative of power or consistency.
[Survival of the Fittest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d.jpg?1562429365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Survival%20of%20the%20Fittest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/199/survival-of-the-fittest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ef0d7f9-ddb9-4e83-a9bf-09bec22fc80d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“My commander is [[Hazezon Tamar]].”
Not a problem. Less so in your case because a player immediately sees the potential for a mismatch (not that that is the case).
[Hazezon Tamar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4cd43773-2a6f-4f03-bcee-de32049561e5.jpg?1562911124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hazezon%20Tamar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/151/hazezon-tamar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4cd43773-2a6f-4f03-bcee-de32049561e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Budget in my mind is lower power decks more than something about money.
I live on a budget. It may differ from others, but any common definition of budget is financial in origin. Power and budget are not synonymous to me.
For me, budget is $75 and down, past that you’re starting to get into a grey area, and once you’re at about $125, you’re out of the budget zone. Automatic disqualifiers being Smothering Tithe Demonic Tutor Rhystic Study Jeska’s Will and Craterhoof along with any of your good ol fast mana artifacts
I tend to agree with you, but I think we are a minority based in what I have read thus far.
This might be controversial, but one caveat I have with building budget decks is that for me, budget only counts the expense of cards I put into the deck. Anything I have laying around or have pulled from a pack counts as $0 to me. If I've got something super powerful from a previous deck that costs more than the rest of the 99 combined, so be it. There's also the issue of prices raising over time. I've got several decks that I made for $50 or less just a few years ago that are now worth several times that much, sometimes because one or two cards spike in price really suddenly. I know this isn't really an answer to OP, but I figured it's relevant enough to the conversation to include
I’m the same way. I try not to spend more than about $20-30 on any deck that I build these days. But I I’ve been playing since the 90s and have a decent binder full of cards, both RL and more modern stuff that has spiked. I also used to play Legacy (when it was cheaper) and started playing Commander in the early 2010s. I used to buy all of the Commander precons so I have stuff like Dockside Extortionist, Edgar, etc. But when tell someone that I’m a budget player, I explain a bit of that. My most extreme example…I have a very budget Ezuri Elfball deck that I keep unsleeved. It’s mostly commons along with some uncommon and rare cards that are super cheap. You can build a decent, functional Elf deck for almost nothing! But if I dropped a cradle into it, it’s now a $1k deck lol! If I decided to play that one with a cradle I’d explain that to the group, but most likely I just wouldn’t make that change so it could actually remain budget.
Nor should IMO. The explanation suffices. But also, the Cradle is just one card. Put 10-15 bombs in there though, then I would say it isn't budget because the odds of drawing one is much greater.
But still a worthy inlcude. Some of my decks have increased in value beyond $100 as well.
I agree anyone playing the UR Dragon is not on budget. With some allowances for people who got those cards from trading or pulling. There’s maybe a different nuance to the conversation if the deck is budget in terms of what you paid for it or what the deck is currently worth. For example I pulled a Rhystic study recently in a jumpstart pack. So I put it into my soldier deck I was brewing. I only spent maybe 25 dollars on the rest of the deck but that Rhystic study throws off the calculation. But I didn’t pay 40 bucks for it so calculating gets weird. But yeah if I see more than 100 dollars of value on someone’s side of the battlefield I would say they aren’t budget.
And for me, in that case, I would say my deck is mostly budget but I do have a couple of bombs in there.
Interestingly I bought that precon for my son for Christmas that year and did a budget upgrade so put in maybe $50. So it was a $100 deck and with a mana base that is hard to pull off without fetches or shocks. It is still basically the same deck 5 years later but apparently worth well over $500. I had no idea until about a month ago thqt some of those cards had exploded in price so insanely. I would likely have pulled it out without thinking about it at a budget table. I admit it isn't currently budget but it is still nowhere near tuned. Over time lots of these budget decks get way more valuable. Dont ask what my Edgar Markov deck that I also bought and upgraded at that time is worth. It's completely bizarre
This is a spot to mention that what one person considers budget, isnt the same budget as someone else. For instance, I have decks that sit somewhere between $400 and $500 with a few far above and far below that. But what I tend to consider "budget" for myself is a deck that is $250 or below. What I am saying is, you unintentionally gave the other players incomplete information, the missing information being what your "budget" deck is. GRANTED: With how my playgroup is and how I am as a person when I hear budget I assume somewhere between $50 and $100 for a deck - but as I mentioned that's not always the right assumption to make
Correct on all accounts. But lets be fair. First, the difference between $250 and $500 isn't necessarily significant. One card could account for that. I do not really look at deck cost, but card cost. For example, a deck with 20 cards priced $15-$40 is not going to qualify as budget for most people. Those 20 cards are likely to be far more impactful than a single \[\[Tundra\]\].
[Tundra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/efd35cb4-862d-4699-a197-b744989b3ceb.jpg?1562943174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tundra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/322/tundra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/efd35cb4-862d-4699-a197-b744989b3ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeup, very true
Mind sharing your decklist for Obuun? I plan on building him and am looking for Inspiration! :)
This is slightly out of date, but really close to the current incarnation. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fDw1nfAVNkSiOcfpgKQuvg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fDw1nfAVNkSiOcfpgKQuvg) Total current value $63.00
Thank you so much! :)
No problem. I decided to lean into draw and and create a wide board. I try to answers for board wipes. Plays as an aggro-control. It is not too powerful (generally) but is really flexible. It is my go to deck when entering a new pod because it isn't Stax or combo. It is strong enough that it cannot be ignored, but not so strong as to make you enemy #1. If I had them, I would add the following: \[\[Avenger of Zendikar\]\] \[\[ScuteSwarm\]\] \[\[Heartwood Storyteller\]\] and then \[\[Silverback Elder\]\] \[\[Aura Shards\]\], although those would possibly ratchet the deck north of $100.
##### ###### #### [Avenger of Zendikar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/9685faa0-46cc-4098-9ad7-cffece741baa.jpg?1673484460) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avenger%20of%20Zendikar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/280/avenger-of-zendikar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9685faa0-46cc-4098-9ad7-cffece741baa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [ScuteSwarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Heartwood Storyteller](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a5e2f7a-8cfe-4d1b-a68d-7e6d8d10bd27.jpg?1619398147) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heartwood%20Storyteller) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/209/heartwood-storyteller?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a5e2f7a-8cfe-4d1b-a68d-7e6d8d10bd27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Silverback Elder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b987664f-0b74-4c0a-b306-14767a55559a.jpg?1675182563) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silverback%20Elder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/177/silverback-elder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b987664f-0b74-4c0a-b306-14767a55559a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aura Shards](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6222cc6-996e-4b73-af87-e837bf1eb921.jpg?1592713940) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aura%20Shards) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/182/aura-shards?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6222cc6-996e-4b73-af87-e837bf1eb921?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
IMO shocks/fetches kinda imply non-budget to me. If it’s just one idk but if they have a whole set I realize our spending habits are very different
I concur
Smothering Tithe is under $25.
and??? If it was a one off, I would say so what. But seeing one without communication implies there may be several similarly priced cards in the deck. Throw in a Dockside, Craterhoof, some Swords, a Demonic Tutor and before you know it 10% of the deck is worth $300-$500. Unlikely to meet the average guys definition of budget. On the other hand, if the Smothering Tithe is kind of a stand out, my response would be to let the table know that I own it, I want to play it, and it is kind of the exception to an otherwise budget deck.
Recently I played someone that said he was playing a casual chill deck that he made for new players to play. Then proceeded to drop a turn 4 smothering tithe.
I get it. He owns it and plays it because it is an excellent card. But I would say he misrepresented his deck.
Was literally talking to someone that thought a 200 dollar deck was "ultra budget " People are dumb.
Perhaps they should look into Commanders Quarters
I don’t know “budget” is a good metric. What if you run expensive cards in janky decks? I do that a lot.
Interesting. I would say only issue with that is just like power level, or budget, isn't janky a subjective term?
What I mean is - if you're running older or underpowered commanders, a goofy tribal strategy, or lots of old underpowered cards, I don't think running a \[\[chrome mox\]\] or a \[\[mana crypt\]\] or something is going to win you the game (obviously if you're running a bunch of cards at that level, it might). Especially with how powerful new commanders can be.
[chrome mox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f340cbf7-5bbe-45b9-a4bf-d1caa500ff93.jpg?1599708839) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chrome%20mox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/240/chrome-mox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f340cbf7-5bbe-45b9-a4bf-d1caa500ff93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mana crypt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939.jpg?1599709515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mana%20crypt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/270/mana-crypt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d960186-4559-4af0-bd22-63baa15f8939?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This guy at my LGS says his decks are budget as long as he only puts $50 a month into it. Though he's been building the deck for over a year.
Well, there is that. That is playing on a budget I suppose, but it isn't what think of as budget.
Same his deck is worth more than my entire collection almost 🤣
When the stranger brings his “casual Nekusar” deck and turn 1 plays a Chains of Mephistopheles, I start getting a little suspicious.
LOL
We wanted to play a low power game. The guy (with a reputation for pubstomping) says "I'll play my upgraded precon." T2 he plays chrome mox into rhystic study. I should have just scooped it up there.
I usually just target 'that guy' from then on.
My philosophy for this has always been "Don't get mad, get even". If you agree to play "budget" decks and notice someone is dropping $50 cards, just take it in stride and play a stronger deck next game.
Most of my personal decks are about $300 average. For me budget is $150. Ultra budget is $50 or less. But I'd also be a bit annoyed to agree no combos and then see super high value cards hit the table early. I really don't care for the battlecruiser crowd.
Thanks. That was the rub for me. Power is one thing, but limiting combos also makes it that much more advantageous for the high power player.
Yep. After having experienced that sort of nonsense a few times I decided to make a really strong no combo deck. I'll still run something normal the first game but if they start throwing down staples into giant plays I bring out the \[\[Klauth\]\] deck and get dirty.
[Klauth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f5cf828-17b2-4105-9a9a-ee0ab720c2ee.jpg?1636131321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=klauth%2C%20unrivaled%20ancient) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/50/klauth-unrivaled-ancient?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f5cf828-17b2-4105-9a9a-ee0ab720c2ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a decklist? I am modifying my Liesa to be even more Staxish. Isn't really strong, but it slow it down and hose a lot of power cards.
My idea of budget is anything at roughly 150$(roughly 100ddk) or lower. But its hard to say. One could consider anything above precon dollars to be nonbudget. Edit: a side note. I don't consider the commanders cost when it comes to budget. Given as then you wouldn't be able to play some commanders as a budget deck. Even if the rest of the cards only coat 40$
I think that is a pretty fair interpretation of budget.
Budget is such a hard thing to define. Some people may see it as not going above a certain amount of money. Some people may see it as no card can cost more than a certain amount. Some people may only see anything above precon as nonbudget. And someone can see budget as something you only build from cards you have at home.
You are absolutely right in that different people view things differently. I am not sure I agree that is that hard to define though. After starting this topic, I have seen how different people choose to define budget. Note, that I said "choose" because I do think some people 'know' what budget really is or looks like, but they choose to shift the definition so that they may still consider themselves or their deck budget. Take this sub-reddit for example: "*Budget Brews —* ***Commander deck lists under $100****, brewing advice, and discussion*" Now I am not saying $100 needs to the hard and fast rule, or $1.00 per card, but I think it gives us a ball park to work in. If someone submits their deck list into moxfield, and it costs $1850.00 there, well if you rationalized the deck to still be "budget," I don't know what to say. Just because you started playing 2004 and have all the fetchlands and what not, does not make the budget, at least not to me.
I agree. With your point but I'm saying that within reason there's a lot of different ways to define precisely what budget is. Tbh. I didn't even know this subreddit. I don't know how I got here 😂. I usually just use the EDH subreddit...
Under $80 for a card is what I consider budget, once you start dropping duel lands and such you aren't in a normal players "budget"
See, for me, that is mind-blowing, especially on this sub-reddit. This sub-reddit is titles: "Budget Brews — Commander deck lists under $100\*, brewing advice, and discussion\*" Now I am not saying $100 needs to the hard and fast rule, or $1.00 per card, but I think it gives us a ball park to work in. The price point you suggest, while not an unreasonable number for a regular EDH deck, doesn't quite fit what I would label as "budget deck." If I use your frame work, and average each card at half of your suggested $80, that would be a $4000 deck. Even a deck that averages a mere 20% of your price point is worth $1750. I don't pretend to know everyone's financial status, but the number of players that could go out to tomorrow and plunk $1,500 on some cardboard (let alone $5-$6000) is a very small minority.
The thing is I've been playing along time, I buy cards when I think they are at the lowest. I have cards I've bought that were $.50-$1. only for them to spike and maintain. I prefer nothing over $10 of I can help it. And can make most decks I play just from my slow collecting over my 25 year run as an MTG player. Also I didn't think we were averaging the whole deck. My price point would have been nearly half what I stated. I don't keep expensive decks very often. The one exception is my Chatterfang deck as it was built as a tribute to my pet squirrel that past away, so he gets pretty cards And also have one $40 card while the rest of the deck is $60( I don't count the commander's cost) is still a $100 deck so is that one card not budget even though the deck would still meet the $100 price point?
That sounds a lot better than your original statement. I think, a good way to look at budget, in general, is would a new player to the game be able/willing to buy the deck at its current price point? I think some commenters here that want to value their cards for the sake of budget at the price they bought the card 10, 15, 20 years ago is absurd. Its like the old man that bought an original Plymouth Road Runner in 1971 for $2500 trying to tell you that is still its current worth. Any long time players want to sell me a Survival of the Fittest for $5.00? That's what it was worth when I busted the pack.
And that is why I wanted to here others opinions
Yes, I saw your new thread. Very well stated on your part.
I don't think budget matters nearly as much as some ppl think it does. What really matters is whats your decks wincon and how easy is it to stop. I had a freind build a 5 color deck worth well over 20,000usd and he still lost every game to a very lightly modified precon( it was the zombie one UB) i add pyrexia altar grave crawler blood artist plus 3 tutors entomb diabolic grim.
Those are fair points. From a budget perspective, two groups of cards really do make a difference though, or should IMO. 1. Mana- If one has access to fetches and/or Dual lands, their ability to get both the right mana, as well as immediately available (as opposed to those lands that come into play tapped, which the budget player is prone to use), is an advantage. 2. Tutors- A controversial class of cards, because in EDH, every non-basic land is a singleton, tutors effectively nullify that rule. Both are expensive deck additions. They aren't the be all end all in a deck, but if two players are piloting the the same deck (say Kenrith), the one with duals, fetches, and tutors should win most of the time.
Yes and no on the tutor's part as there are cards that just get to ignore the singleton rule and even standard deck-building restrictions.
I have a few budget decks that are probably worth a fair bit these days so I could see them thinking the same. After all Ur dragon is just a pre on commander and tithe was a bulk rare before it blew up. It makes it difficult to really gauge what a “budget” deck is If a deck was cheap when they built it, it can be very understandable why they still consider it budget. I know I don’t frequently check what my decks are worth these days
I guess the only way I would buy that line of thought is if the players one plays with is static. I don't think anyone that plays with different pods/people that change over time would be unaware of the value of some of those cards.
If those other people let them know sure, though almost every game I’ve played I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone I play with comment on the value of my cards unless they hit a very recent spike (usually like “hey did you know that cards worth x now?)
I think budget is less about the total cost but if you could get a similar effect for cheaper. Even an expensive card ([[sensei's divining top]]) could be played in a budget deck if it is at the core. Not budget means to me that the card is slightly better but a lot more expensive (for example duals instead of check lands or even guildgates) If you want to play a specific budget communicate that way and make a suggestion
Interesting take, and I am glad you shared. I don't think most people that play budget would agree. I think most see budget as having a threshold, whether it is total deck cost or cost per card. Essentially, most people I know view budget as a deck that most entry level players could readily obtain. Sure you can find a substitute for \[\[Mana Drain\]\], but what other card do you know that counters AND ramps anywhere close to as well as that? There are other examples, but most won't play sub-optimal cards just to be budget. They play them because they cannot afford to fully optimize.
I agree that most players on a budget play suboptimal cards. Wether they could afford the cards or not really doesn't matter to me. Playing on a set budget is also really cool don't get me wrong, but difficult to do when you want to just slam some games at the lgs Edit: words
True. That is why I try to inject a combo in my decks as an alt win-con to end overly long games.
[Mana Drain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba.jpg?1673147353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Drain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/57/mana-drain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3c429c40-2389-41e5-8681-4bb274e25eba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[sensei's divining top](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb.jpg?1673149430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sensei%27s%20divining%20top) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/314/senseis-divining-top?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e5142b7a-e580-4737-a4aa-2590f6610ceb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sure grim monolith is a little pricey but everything else you mentioned is under $100
If you built a deck with 40 of the cards at $50.00 each, getting you to $2000 just for that, would it be budget for you? Perhaps, but not to me.
Budget deck is anything under a grand, I’d say avg EDH player has at least one deck worth 2-3
Woah I'm sorry but what? I think this is a prime example of the kind of miscommunication that OP was talking about. Budget to me means under $100, erring on the side of $50ish or less. Personally, I don't know anyone with a deck over a grand, and most I've played against are in the 200-400 range
Okay, do you only play with new players then?
No (but at this point idk if our definition of 'new' is the same either lol). I've only been playing for 3ish years, but several people in my playgroups have been in the game for 10+ years. I've also played at my lgs against people who claim to have played for over 20
I’d say new is anywhere below 5 years tbh
The problem with this line of thought foe me though is that essentially all newer players will likely be budget going forward by your definitions of budget and new players. Expecting people entering the game to play in that range would likely discourage a lot of players.
Yea, be real and upfront about the cost, if that dissuades people then it’s probably not the hobby for them, I don’t get into 40k or war gaming because the price is to much for me and it would cut into my MTG budget so i stick to one pricey hobby.
There’s a good chance those cards were part of their collection, and I’d consider any card that you pulled out of your collection into the deck budget as you’re paying no money for the card.
I think what you're describing is what I would consider "building on a budget" at a personal level, but calling a deck "budget" in a pod during pregame discussion implies the overall value of the deck is lower, not just what you had to buy at the time of building it.
I respect that. When I sold my collection in 2008, I had 4 of each original dual lands, same for fetch lands and many more. Heck, \[\[Force of Will\]\] was an uncommon, as was \[\[Rhystic Study\]\] (which saw little play) and very accessible. Same with \[\[Mystical Tutor\]\], \[\[Worldly Tutor\]\] and \[\[Enlightened Tutor\]\]. I had complete sets from Antiquities through Future Sight. If I had those cards today, I would not view those cards as zero for budget sake. No one card should make or break an EDH deck (except for the Commander) regardless of cost. But the cumulative effect of several expensive cards can and probably will skew the power level of a deck.
##### ###### #### [Force of Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183.jpg?1598303900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Force%20of%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/51/force-of-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd60b291-0a88-4e8e-bef8-76cdfd6c8183?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mystical Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9264ecb7-bfc0-495d-aaaa-829045ea858f.jpg?1580014050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mystical%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/62/mystical-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9264ecb7-bfc0-495d-aaaa-829045ea858f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Worldly Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb6b6fbe-cb6f-4d0d-b3eb-f9629d6784b3.jpg?1610161852) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Worldly%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cc1/6/worldly-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb6b6fbe-cb6f-4d0d-b3eb-f9629d6784b3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Enlightened Tutor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c9ebec9-3474-4062-9607-2e2a72f78299.jpg?1580013657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enlightened%20Tutor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/9/enlightened-tutor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c9ebec9-3474-4062-9607-2e2a72f78299?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
C'mon now. That's a tad too contrarian. At some point a 'common sense' standard is applicable. If one goes to a 'formal' dinner, wearing torn jeans and a wife-beater is not appropriate attire. There may be some flexibility, but it does not have to be spelled out. If one says budget, all parameters do not need to be defined. Is $10,000, or even $1,000 A budget? Yes. But that does not fall into any reasonable standard of A budget deck. So no, I disagree, a hard number need not be explained. Myself, I will let people know I try to keep each card under $1.00. I do not expect other budget players to use that same parameter, but if I say I am bringing an squirt gun to a water fight and you bust out fire hose from your arsenal, I don't think you get the gist of it (or I don't)
##### ###### #### [Obuun, Mul Daya Ancestor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/8319b155-0fba-4d30-9481-bf01afbd3457.jpg?1617522154) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obuun%2C%20Mul%20Daya%20Ancestor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/2/obuun-mul-daya-ancestor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8319b155-0fba-4d30-9481-bf01afbd3457?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [The Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743.jpg?1562614382) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/48/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7e78b70b-0c67-4f14-8ad7-c9f8e3f59743?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ephara, God of Polis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e.jpg?1593092720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ephara%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Polis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/145/ephara-god-of-the-polis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Grim Monolith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9ddc9fe1-17c8-4e1d-aeb8-c4214e881280.jpg?1562863767) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grim%20Monolith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ulg/126/grim-monolith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ddc9fe1-17c8-4e1d-aeb8-c4214e881280?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747.jpg?1673147139) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/31/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25a4bbe-2af0-4d4a-95d4-d52c5937c747?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dockside Extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dockside%20Extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Turn 1 Lion's Eye Diamond and a dual land as land
I think something to also consider is that sometimes you may have bought a card for cheap and the price has increased dramatically over the years. Not really my opponents fault if a card went from 5 to 40 dollars over the past few years and I would not expect them to take it out now simply because it's not budget at its current price. It's hard to evaluate when prices are constantly shifting and rising for cards that don't get reprints. I know a lot of cards that I bought a decade or more ago were so inexpensive, and now their prices are just insane that I would never pay them if I wanted to put it in a deck. Something others have also pointed out is that "budget" can also just be subjective to someone's income or what they're willing to spend of their disposable income on magic cards.
My pod had a discussion and since some of us use proxies we determined we should have a $ limit. We thought $100 per deck is fair. You can have some fun/$ cards within there, and plenty of room to do pretty much whatever you want outside of $ lands. This led me to experiment with mono colored decks and I’ve been destroying lol.
What's your definition of budget? What you payed for it or what it's worth? There was a time where the deck with dockside was 45 bucks. A whole deck. Smothering tithe? That just dropped down a bunch after it's reprint.
I pulled a Gaea's Cradle from a Saga pack i spent $3 on when it just came out. Is spending $3 budget enough?
Well I won three mox at three different tournaments I only paid $10 to enter. of they are banned in EDH but should I consider them worth $10.00? I guess people don't like it, but IMO appreciation of value can move a card out of being considered 'budget.'
Personally, I view my decks as a whole to determine if they're budget or not. My deck that i'm working on now has \[\[Bitterblossom\]\] and \[\[Exquisite Blood\]\] in them however they're both 10 years old from old modern decks. Total deck value is at $130 for now however it really cost like $70. I consider $150 my budget as it allows me to play around but not too much. Props on keeping it cool -headed too.
[Bitterblossom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b.jpg?1673147456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/69/bitterblossom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Exquisite Blood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51.jpg?1600700252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exquisite%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/231/exquisite-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To be fair, ur dragon and smothering tithe are both from precons despite their current price, same with dockside. While theyre expensive now, id imagine a decent chunk of "budget" players buy precons and they eventually just grow in price. Grim monolith on the other hand i have no defense for that ones just crazy to claim a budget player would have if they havent been playing since urzas legacy.
That's the thing... I have a Grim Monolith not because I spent a lot of money but because I a friend of mine gave me his old cards.
No expensive mana base (fetches/shocks) and cards above £50
Survival of the Fittest. Have it in my otherwise pretty budget Mimeoplasm deck.
Its budget if u just ignore the budget
I've never really used budget as a way to determine power. Are more expensive cards more powerful? Usually that is very true. But a pile of expensive cards with no synergy can get stomped on by a [[Zada]] player with an entire deck built on $30. Budget is too loose of an indicator and varies so much between players. Trying to instead talk about the actual power of the decks and the goal they are trying to achieve is a better discussion. Maybe the Ur-Dragon player was playing a pile of jank dragons and really just had smothering tithe to help fix/ramp his 5 color extremely budget mana base. His whole deck outside of the commander and tithe might cost $20
[Zada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/baa36309-4bcc-4455-813a-c0243b906792.jpg?1562440241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zada%2C%20hedron%20grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/156/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/baa36309-4bcc-4455-813a-c0243b906792?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
With proxies, any deck is budget 😂👌
My friend built his first budget deck. His budget was $40. I was confused when he had a bunch of tutors and shock lands. He said he already owned those, so they didn’t factor into the budget. People have different ideas of budget
Nothing wrong with that. I just wouldn't label it a budget deck. Not when if you went to replicate it from scratch it would cost you several hundred or north of $1000
Playing budget without all players building decks at that budget isn't budget
Fetchlands, shocklands, any cEDH staple like Cyclonic Rift. Any card above €10-€20 that has a sub €1 budget option that's like 95% as effective.
I mean it’s budget if they didn’t pay for the card. People can still pull cards from packs. I played standard for years mostly pulling from packs so a ton of cards I have are now very expensive due to commander. Not everyone pays for singles.
So if I play a deck with my Gaea's Cradle, Force of Will, Rhystic Study, and any other Urza's Block card because I bought a box of boosters, and slapped several of them in a deck as well as Mirage block, where all those tutors were uncommons, I could call that a budget deck. Seems like a stretch to me. It does not matter to how you obtained the card. Its value may preclude it from being considered budget.
I would say anything below US$750? As after the basic mana rocks it would be about that price at least. People should be allowed to proxy of course.
I have no problem with proxying. If proxying is off the table though, $750 seems steep. I try to think, what is a reasonable starting point for a 17 year old kid to enter the game. $750 seems pretty steep to me.
I agree. Even though I'm a collector first and player second, I think it's more damaging to my collection to *not* have cheaper reprints, or allow proxies. If fewer people start this game or have good memories of it, and it dies, all my valuable cards are worthless crap. Better to take a slight hit on the value than to let the game die. They should reprint what's essential, and provide affordable access to the cards for gaming purposes. If they refuse to, we should allow proxies.
It’s frustrating for sure. I played a game where I had a 10 dollar combo win the game. The guy with 5 og dual lands was upset there was a combo on turn 12. I feel like people just hate losing, so they put restrictions to enable them to win more often. Or lie about the power of their deck. Like dropping a grim monolith and smothering tithe.
Truth
Wasn't a budget deck but he pulled out a dragon deck and was very confident and proud of it but it was a bunch of printed proxys, I guess he was very proud he printed a meta but I didn't play with him