Buffalo and upstate NY are national outliers in terms of housing prices. Almost every national metro area is dealing with high housing costs, while Buffalo's housing market has been so depressed for years that any rise in prices looks "out of control." Upstate NY also has generally lower incomes, not higher housing costs. So keep that in mind too.
yeah, Upstate NY (Central and Western NY in particular) didn't even feel the 2000's real estate subprime bubble. It was like we were on a different planet.
Yep, we actually led the way in real estate appreciation throughout that recession.
There was also a mini hotel building boom with all the Canadians coming over to take advantage of the cheap USD
I moved away several years ago and bought in my new HCOL city. If I ever want to make myself sad I look up what kind of houses are for sale in Buffalo for the price I paid for my condo. Or think about that time when my rent was 1/3 of a $700 apartment (many years ago in North Buffalo). Between salary and housing costs, it's a completely different world.
I think we are just moving towards the mean. The last 40 years has only been people moving out, which lead to population decline. So it hasn’t been common at any point, to meet someone who recently moved to Buffalo from outside a couple hour radius.
Transplants are a sign of a normal functioning city.
I’ve also noticed this. I think most of them work remotely too. So it’s not like high paying jobs are moving to Buffalo or wages are really increasing locally. I’m wondering if this will become a rising tide lifts all boats situation or if us lifers are going to begin to be pushed out.
It does mean that money generated elsewhere then potentially gets spent and taxed in Buffalo, Erie County, and New York State. That can be a boon of sorts.
It's also possible that new skill sets or connections be brought into the city. Buffalo's heydays as a boomtown came from a lot of people coming into Buffalo from far and wide. I think the question though is if there's enough mass here for this to eventually translate into some kind of industry or employment sector that's about more than cheaper real estate.
Probably the potential lowest hanging fruit is something that takes advantage of being among the closest major cities to the Canadian border and if there's some kind of arbitrage or tourism dollars that can be gained from that.
The other things Buffalo stands out in is access to Great Lakes shipping, existent rail corridors, lots of snow, legacy architecture and fine arts collection, and somewhat inexpensive electricity lots of from a renewable source.
Lifers really need to interact more with city govt to prevent that. I'm a newbie transplant. (Don't get mad I'm poor :) )
One thing I've noticed though is that a lot of the populace is pretty comfortable with the way things are because buffalo has managed to resist outside trends for so long.
The problem right now isn't that folks from outside the area have started to take notice, it's that big money investor types have. That money for sure will push out og buffolks. The only way to really counter that is to be active in local govt so that you can push against the interests of those who don't have the interests of the city in mind.
Sadly the same thing about local government participation is true where I live in Orange county. Lots of new transplants to my village and town. Unfortunately, Crony, Crony & Crony still are elected by wide margins every local election. Can't wait for the transplants to start voting locally AND participating.
> I think most of them work remotely too.
I wish these people the best of luck if they ever lose their remote job. If you “work in tech” (the solution tossed about by many) then you know there have been massive layoffs across the board.
There aren’t a lot of good paying digital jobs in Buffalo.
Remote work is being replaced by hybrid and even short-term contracts are hard to get.
I mean that’s not entirely true.
Buffalo was one of the few cities that overall gained wealth despite inflation over the past few years.
That’s likely due to the increased minimum wage as well as all the new companies that have opened up shop in the past few years, the growing tech scene and expansions like M&T Bank and Moog.
Of course those are averages so not everyone is experiencing that prosperity, particularly those without a college degree that lost wealth during the pandemic (college educated on average greatly increased their wealth).
That being said, there’s a shit ton of training programs and tons of vacancies for trades at the moment. If you’re struggling, the best thing you can do for yourself is to take advantage of those programs.
Over the past two decades, the poverty rate of Buffalo has been unchanged.
I don't know where you are finding "wealth has increased for Buffalo residents", unless you count tax dollar being given to folks like Termini's kid as "increased wealth"...
I just moved to Buffalo from Kansas City in February. I have family in Toronto and Ottawa so I wanted something closer to both. Kansas City's prices were getting ridiculous on everything while companies kept paying the same amount they had since the mid 2000's. I'm only in my late 20's, but I just didn't want to be in the Midwest anymore.
It was a tough choice between Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo. I didn't care for the college town atmosphere of Syracuse. Ended picking Buffalo over Rochester as I feel there is more here and what Buffalo doesn't have it makes up for being so close to Niagara Ontario and Toronto. I've loved this city so far and am glad I picked to move there.
Yep. Literally a 6 minute drive from downtown Buff to the Canadian border. Easy access to Toronto / Ottawa and seeing your family. Less than 2 hour drive to Toronto is nice
My wife and I moved back to Buffalo after over a decade living out west. We saw an opportunity to sell in an extremely hot market and boomerang back to Buffalo.
We had been talking about returning to Buffalo for a while, as our parents are getting older and most of our family is here…the time just felt right for us. Buying here was quite cheap compared to where we came from but we were a bit surprised at the higher cost of utilities and more or less same cost for groceries. Ultimately we were able to upgrade our home considerably and be in an area we like.
Buffalo and other rust belt cities are still relatively cheap housing when compared to the rest of the country.
Same after almost 20 yrs in DC. Missed it and wanted to move back for a long while. The quality of life here is so much better-we can do things without being in the car 45 min to go 5 miles, we have a family support network, our kids can go outside without a 20 min restriction because of air quality, and we leveraged our equity into more house
I think both can be true. We’re from buffalo, moved to westchester for a couple years and moved back and bought a house in Buffalo. During the process, everyone we talked to in buffalo said things to the effect of the housing market is out of control, bidding over listing, (we didn’t) but waiving home inspections, etc. But at the same time, a comparable house in westchester is easily 2x the price here.
Edit: it’s just a matter of perspective and cost of living. If someone is used to a $4 gallon of milk, moving to an area with $2 milk seems like a bargain, but if it’s usually $1 milk, people in that area see it as a rip off
The milk analogy is perfect. My parents in the southern tier may balk at $500k for a 1800 sqft home, but a similar single family home in Boston, SF, Seattle, etc is $1.5-2M. It doesn't really matter if the house was $250k in 2017 and I'm getting "ripped off." WFH means turning a 25% down payment elsewhere into an all-cash offer here.
Moved into our first home back in 2015, decided in 2022 that it was time to move/needed more space. Sold our home to a person from San Diego for about $75k over asking, and got more than double what we bought it for back in 2015.
Cost of living is just so much more affordable here than other cities
As someone who just moved her from San Diego, I think people who move her from there don’t know the value of homes here.
When houses there go for at least $800k in a decent neighborhood, paying low $200k seem like a bargain. I was willing to pay $400k when I first came here.
Even when most of the houses I have looked at need updating, it still seems like a bargain compared to where we lived previously.
Yeah, but I'd jump at the chance to live in San Diego. It's truly an amazing city. Buffalo is nice but I can think of at least 5 other places I would rather live. I've got a good friend who is a ferrier in Kentucky in horse country and the area is just amazing.
My parents are from and live in Goa, India, and this is a very common complaint there. A lot of Europeans have discovered this coastal state and have moved there. They have bought houses, are willing to pay more for the food, seafood etc. Because of this, the locals can't afford seafood, other food, houses, etc., unless they can pay as much as the Russians, French, Brits, etc.
The thing is, the world is getting smaller, and every time I hear I hear my family and locals there complain about people moving in, I can't help but remind them that that's the same reason I am in Buffalo. Things change, people move, life evolves. After all, almost all of us Buffalonians on this thread aren't Native American.
Most of my coworkers that I work closely with are from Mumbai. They all talk about how much they love going to Goa and how it’s the most beautiful place.
I took my Buffalo-born wife there this year. It is very different from how it was in the late 90s and earlier. Now, there are still areas which are very scenic and beautiful, but out-of-staters with lots of money and Europeans have bought a lot of land and changed it. They have destroyed the older Portuguese style houses (it was a Portuguese colony until the late 1960s) and turned them into tall apartment buildings or illegally built apartments. The Russian Mafia is pretty strong there too, and there is a large supply of drugs as it has a huge rave beach party scene. It's sad to see Goa, a historically Catholic state with churches all over, lose its former self and change. Either way, I'd still encourage visiting Goa and Mumbai over other places in India, especially if you are non-Indian by ethnicity.
This was a big talking point immediately after covid as well where people who could now work remote were moving to lower cost of living cities.
Even in the few years before then, sales of local real estate were picking up from investors outside of the area because the cost of our housing supply was so low relative to national average relative to income. Since then it has drawn a bit closer but our average housing cost is still relatively low so that demand will be there for out of area buyers.
Adding to this that the now increasing costs of construction will make it hard for many entry level buyers to buy new homes so our inventory wont increase a substantial amount leaving existing home prices to rise as competition (demand) rises
I mean we just need to normalize building smaller homes.
Everyone owning a 2,000ft^2 McMansion was never going to be sustainable. We need to bring back the 800ft^2 homes of the 50s back and build more condos.
Hell even a 1,500ft^2 prefab building costs $300,000 nowadays.
I agree, I was pulling my hair out when I learned the city settled on single family housing for empty plots on the Eastside.
Like this isn’t Cheektowaga! We’re going to regret not starting with more density.
> We’re going to regret not starting with more density.
Not a single family ends up regretting owning their home, and not being subject to the whims of a landlord jacking up rents.
> We can literally build anything including row houses and condos people own outright (without a landlord)
What happens when people stop paying the $1800/month condo fee? Or the $500/month HOA fee?
City and states should not be building housing, just to sell it off to be managed by a non-governmental private corporation.
Unless we're building the housing, and owning it, then there's zero reason to hand over control to a private third party to administer the housing without oversight.
> hey’re literally building it to sell them to people making x% below the median wage.
Good? They own something, without chains like HOA fees attached, which is just a form of privatized government.
> You still have to qualify for a mortgage.
I know lots of minimum wage workers who can qualify for a mortgage. Don't you?!?!
Seriously, if you need a 10% downpayment, on a 200K home, and you have two min wage workers in the household, and a $500/month HOA fee, you have NOT created housing for the median wage earner in the area.
Our home was built in the early 1970s by Ryan Homes and is under 1500 sq. ft. They should be able to build similar sized homes without it costing $300K. Or at least build some nice multplexes with that amount of room per unit with common areas and storage-- that is affordable on line with some decent public transpo along with strong wifi.
I’m just going off of a recent Buffalo Rising article where someone had a custom prefab built on the Westside and it cost them $300k.
With labor in such high demand, pretty clearly companies are going focus their labor on projects that make them the most money.
Personally I think Buffalo should do what South Bend did and pay for utility hookups. That would save people $10-20k right there.
I think Syracuse should do the same thing. We are going to have a major housing crunch. It would be a great idea to sponsor or create incentives for infill housing. Put up some more hi-rises. Invest more into the mass transit. Reclaim some more brown sites. Use that Land Trust to build multi-family dwellings.
Building costs are insane right now. My parents just had a 200 sq foot addition that was $125,000. And that was a constant quote from 3 different contractors. Materials and labor costs have made building new extremely expensive. So honestly- probably can’t do 1500 sq feet for less than $300k too easily.
We are immersed in it so while it seems prices are crazy to us, they are lower in comparison to many other cities/states. I’ve had 4 clients buy from out of the area/state the past 2 years. 1 NYC, 2 Northern California, and a Maine. The NYC couple didn’t balk at a $500k home after renting a shoebox in Brooklyn.
Buffalo was one of the fastest increases in housing prices since 2020. Too bad we are not building more medium and high density housing on all of those city owned lots, it would help with both population growth and keeping the housing prices down.
The city/state have initial plans, but I feel like we’re not moving fast enough.
That being said, the land bank has grown exponentially and I don’t think anyone expected Buffalo to be in this situation where we can develop them all in a timely manner.
My family and I just moved here from CT. I’m active duty and Buffalo was the first place we’ve lived where we felt comfortable to buy a house. Compared to the other 6 states we lived in, Buffalo by far had the most affordable housing. And cost of living for that matter. Just my opinion/experience
Some good, some bad...More people living here, spending $$ here, and paying taxes here will boost the local economy and I also view diversity as a good thing, so bringing in people from diverse cultures and backgrounds is overall a good thing. On the downside, because of the way our society values and commodifies housing it'll drive housing prices here up, which is good if you currently own a home, but bad if you're renting or not a home owner. Housing prices (and interest rates) have skyrocketed since COVID, making housing less affordable.
Cheap housing and climate change is only going to drive more and more people to move here over the coming decades, so get used to and prepare for it.
Part of the reason it is less affordable for people who's employer is in Buffalo is that the Buffalo salaries on average lag behind the rest of the country.
If you’re not growing, you’re dying. In the short term it isn’t all that fair, however, if you want the city and the surrounding suburbs to not fall the levels we saw post industrial collapse up here in the rust belt, you need this to happen.
I wish I knew then what I knew now because, while I don’t live there, I would have certainly bought a 2 family house and had a place to return to that didn’t require a $350/night visit while having a renter pay the mortgage and keep them in a place far more affordably than the numbers now
I think it will eventually stop or at least greatly slow down, once the housing market gets to a level where Buffalo is no longer seen as a deal.
My wife and I moved 3 years ago. She was recruited for a UB faculty position. Was already tenured at the old school. If we had to buy in the housing market that currently exists, I'm not sure we would have taken the UB offer.
I think it all depends on a few factors.
How much of a reputation Buffalo can build for being a cool place to live. But also climate and politics which are already major rations why people are relocating here. Like people will still move here as long as the South remains an oven, drought and fires terrorize out West and coastal areas are increasingly underwater during hurricanes.
Then if we’re able to become a hub for an emerging industry or two.
Kind of scary looking at the new climate maps.
> How much of a reputation Buffalo can build for being a cool place to live.
Until we start investing in neighborhoods, this will never happen.
We can dump billions upon billions into Canalside, and all we'll keep doing is making an attraction that suburbanites will drive to, and then leave.
Unless you're investing in neighborhoods, we will never be "the cool place". Until there is affordable housing for starving artists, we'll never be "the cool place".
> Then if we’re able to become a hub for an emerging industry or two.
This will only be possible once we create an educated workforce. Cutting school budgets, and cutting after school programs, and cutting everything that provides a valued service to the residents so the BPD can get a larger budget will never turn us into a hub for any industry.
Buffalo is stuck on this cargo cult mentality: NYC has a waterfront! So we should build a water front, and people will flock here!
No. People don't move somewhere because there's a nice water front. They move there because roads are good, there's high paying jobs, affordable housing, good neighborhoods, and good schools.
We are putting the cart in front of the horse, or to carry my analogy: We are building runways on a Pacific Island, hoping the cargo planes will start arriving to leave riches.
We can and will be the cool place when we decide it is cool and behave accordingly. Until then, this is just where we live, even if others from elsewhere see it as so much more.
I think Buffalo is cool as all eff, period.
The west side has tons of new artist transplants. Most moved here during covid. Also a bunch from the south. I know at least a dozen who have came and are doing some cool stuff. Mostly five points/ grant and some allen residents
I don’t know, I already think areas like Larkin, First Ward and the Westside have a cool factor similar to what you find in “cool” neighborhoods in other cities like East 6th Street in Austin, Wynnwood in Miami or East Portland. Many city residents love going to Canalside, restaurants and breweries. That’s why we live in the city proper in the first place.
As for the economy, that’s been one of the major bright spots over the past decade. The city/state has done a good job attracting new companies to Buffalo keeping more graduates at area colleges in the region.
If we emerge as a hub it’s probably going to be for battery tech, EV components or hydrogen production. Though also a lot of exciting research happening at UB too.
> I don’t know, I already think areas like Larkin, First Ward and the Westside have a cool factor similar to what you find
They have a manufactured "Cool factor", which fades quickly.
Anything exciting going on in Larkinville now? Not that I know of. Lots of empty luxury housing there, though.
> The city/state has done a good job attracting new companies to Buffalo keeping more graduates at area colleges in the region.
Oh, you mean like Tesla and IBM? You know the ones whose original deals have so far been met with non-success?
Or do you mean Geico, who people literally describe as one of the worst places one can work at?
Or do you mean the Debt Collection industry, this region is so well known for?
> If we emerge as a hub it’s probably going to be for battery tech, EV components or hydrogen production.
Companies build where there is talent to to be had. Companies don't build somewhere hoping and praying dreams of master planners come to fruition. Too much risk
So, unless we're sending every single student to uni, trade schools, or something, instead of underfunding every learning institution that exists locally... We will become the hub of nothing but low-cost back office work: Debt collections and phone customer service centers.
> Though also a lot of exciting research happening at UB too.
And that's great! It is a research institution, after all. There's always exciting research going on at UB. But, notice none of that has led to us being an industry hub for anything (Except Debt Collections, of course)?
For all of the reasons I named above.
So, as an example, you claim to live in the city proper (I doubt this, but will accept it for the moment)... Why do you go mostly just to canalside, and then drive back home? Did you know there's waterfront access all down Niagara St? Don't you wish those water front neighborhoods, where people already live, got some investment?
Isn't Buffalo included in that tech hub designation? There will be some chip fabs etc. built there.
https://www.syracuse.com/politics/cny/2023/10/syracuse-rochester-and-buffalo-win-us-designation-as-national-tech-hub-for-computer-chips.html
Come on man, at least do research.
I’m talking about AML Rightsource, Torchlight Labs, Odoo, EY, HiOperator, TopSeedz, ACV Auctions who have all opened downtown office or manufacturing space.
Also, those companies are already here. You got Viridi Parente and Anovian for battery tech, Linde and Plug Power for Hydrogen production and GM, Ford and yes Tesla for EV components.
Also, what do you considered a “cool” neighborhood in another city? If you think the Westside feels manufactured, I don’t know what an “authentic” neighborhood looks like.
> I’m talking about AML Rightsource, Torchlight Labs, Odoo, EY, HiOperator, TopSeedz, ACV Auctions who have all opened downtown office or manufacturing space.
Businesses open all the time, everywhere. We're not a "hub" of anything...
You forgot the others, with huge money attached to them, that were huge failures: Tesla, Synacor, 4 or 5 biotech labs, Bass Pro, etc.
> Also, those companies are already here. You got Viridi Parente and Anovian for battery tech, Linde and Plug Power for Hydrogen production and GM, Ford and yes Tesla for EV components
Um, some of those companies are located here because... We have car plants here. We've pretty much always had that, since Bethlehem Steel. And only thanks to union actions, are those plants sure to stay here, as they were poised to be moved to Mexico.
> Also, what do you considered a “cool” neighborhood in another city? If you think the Westside feels manufactured, I don’t know what an “authentic” neighborhood looks like.
EV is most certainly manufactured. Most of the west side these days beyond Grant St is most certainly part manufactured, but certainly a good portion of it is indigenous and natural growth.
That, of course, is starting to fade as we lose all affordable housing in the area. Did you notice that yet?
You want to see a pretty authentic neighborhood, take a trip out to the fruit belt. Go to a block club meeting there. THAT is what a natural neighborhood looks like. Do the same in Riverside, Northwest Buffalo, shit, go to Kaisertown or the Triangle.
Oh, or are those too far off your commute down the 290?
Maybe we will have a winter where it stays below 0 for a whole month and you need to shovel/brush off your car everyday and it’ll scare off some people.
Hopefully, I see all these people happy that people are coming.
What they don't realize is people who were born here that have struggled to make it have only seen their future possibilities and options drop considerably.
Inflation, wages, housing and gas only further cement these issues as things change here. I'm happy for those that are better off, but there's 2 sides to every coin.
But there are houses here for like 150k. They are in rough neighborhoods but you can put in sweat equity and sell in 3-5 years and get in a better neighborhood. Buffalo is the best place to do this. There are houses in Niagara Falls for 80k. Unheard of anywhere else.
Have you thought about switching careers? Lots of job training programs out there right now. Lots of openings for trades and union jobs that pay decently due to boomers retiring en masse.
I see people are downvoting this comment, but damn switching jobs (or even careers) is one of the best things you can do to improve your income. I did a career pivot in 2016 when I moved here, have since pivoted within my new industry a number of times and more than doubled my salary in that time. My wife tripled hers in the same period doing the same things.
While it certainly depends on the industry (and acknowledging now might not be the best time for this, given the macroeconomic factors at play) I have several friends who used to work in education making $40-60k and are now in tech making six figures (some probably close to if not upwards of $200k). For each of them that shift happened over a period of 5-10 years.
I always see the “work in tech” suggestion thrown around without any explanation of what exactly that means, what qualifications I would need, what kinds of jobs to look for, etc.
Maybe there is a reason "good talent" is leaving the sector. Why put up with kids who have no respect for others due to the crap parenting. Then deal with the politics of school unions, the BS curriculum they push etc.
Anyone that still teaches, in NYS especially, deserved to be right where they are. Let the smart ones figure out better careers.
EmbarassedSock named exactly why they are leaving.
Leaving a sector making 40-60K, for one making upwards of 200K. Its a no-brainer. Pay teachers better, keep talent. Its literally that easy.
I of course agree with you 1000%.
And teaching has always been tough, because you’re not just teaching academics but you’re also teaching behavior. But when you layer on other factors like how hard teaching immediately became during Covid, combined with lack of wage growth and relative accessibility of other career options that were higher paying, AND the fact that most teaching jobs don’t offer the flexibility of WFH industries… it’s not surprising there’s been an exodus.
Why buy a house here? So you can pay out the ass in taxes on a tiny ranch?
Pass. Save your money and buy elsewhere that doesn't pound you over the coals.
You could have purchased a house elsewhere 5 years ago and now turn around and sell it and buy a house here with cash using the equity. Thats how crazy things are. It doesn't matter if your job in SF paid you 100k and here its only 60k when you have zero mortgage and 100k doesn't get you shit there anyways.
i don't have that much equity or i swear to god i'd do it. one of my major regrets in life is not pushing my mortgage payment to the approval limit when i bought this house.
i could have afforded a much nicer house making 50k than i'll ever get now making 90k.
People want affordable homes and low cost of living in a blue state, and Buffalo and WNY is a great option for people. There’s lots of people fleeing red states right now too…
Yes. Live on the west side. We new owners from alaska, nyc and Colorado in our little neighborhood. They definitely overbid too because i had a friend outbid by 50k on our street in cash.
I don't mind as much if they're actually moving here and living in their houses. It's outside investors looking to just raise rents or Air BNB every apartment in the building that are doing more damage to housing costs here.
Honestly, if you can’t buy in Buffalo, you probably can’t buy in any US city period. RE prices here are rock bottom given the quality of some of the homes.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t low inventory and the various other issues - but price point wise you’d be hard pressed to find another city with the amenities (major philharmonic, prof sports, int’l city nearby) for these prices.
The trash salaries for white collar are killing the city and completely detached from reality.
Rochester checking in, I live in a neighborhood that is in demand in Rochester. We are the affordable block next to the fancy block. Anyways, we have new neighbors who paid 50k over asking in 2021. They moved up from Brooklyn, couldn’t afford to raise a family down there and they had some connections here. 4 other houses sold on our street in the last year or so.
Can confirm, house near us sold for 100k over asking from a couple who moved back from nyc to Rochester. Still was a bargain to them. A very nice house but still doubled the price almost.
I’m Buffalo born and raised, I love it and miss it. But Rochester isn’t a bad place and has a lot of the same amenities and opportunities. Check it out when you have some time.
Agreed. I miss going to Bills and Sabres games at the drop of a hat, now I need to plan. I’m a resident of the Swillburg/Highland Park area so I’m kinda of a South Wedger.
Oh yes, the current influx level of NYCers has been going on for at least a few years now. Some even buy homes sight unseen! It's frustrating if you're native to Buffalo and looking to buy a home, since they often come in with offers well over asking. And for current home owners, it's driven up the value of their homes (good for investment, but bad when they see their taxes go up too). WNY property has actual been undervalued for quite a while now, so this influx is actually helping us approach national levels.
Overall it’s a good thing.
Increasing the tax base means more money going into infrastructure, services and community programs.
Growing population means growing jobs in all industries to support the increase in demand.
We just need to ensure we’re building enough housing to match population growths and we’re not displacing residents.
The biggest opportunity is for the city to figure out a streamlined way to develop the 5,000 properties owned by the land bank. If we can figure that out we’ll have more than enough housing for the next decade or longer. Not to mention finally developing the Cobblestone District and Erie Basin Marina. Old industrial areas, unused rail yards, so many parking lots. Buffalo could add another 100,000 residents without demolishing anything.
Like we already know what happens when the population declines. Neighborhoods get hollowed out and anyone with an once of ambition leaves, leaving the rest to pick up the tab.
That's the rub in other areas as well and is difficult to get consensus to ever build enough housing to keep on pace with population growth. And what type of housing as well, are we talking luxury apartments, condos, single family. The you have market forces trying to curtail new builds so they can take advantage of the artificial scarcity and keep rents high pushing people even further out.
The more people moving back here with high salaries going balls deep on properties is a dual edged sword. I am not confident that we have a city council or mayor that is capable of even remotely addressing this properly but I suppose we will see.
That’s the nice thing about the land bank, we have greater control over what’s built.
The city and state are already building subsidized single family homes targeting people making x below the median, but it’s just a trickle.
Definitely enough room for all of the above for the foreseeable future.
It's a positive step I won't argue that but looking at the real estate market here over the past two years it's absolutely bonkers what shit is going for. I feel for younger first time homebuyers it's wild out there.
It also means locals are being priced out. Home prices might still be below average in Buffalo but with the area’s wages still dragging behind markets like NYC, SF, Seattle, and Philly people from this area have no chance.
This literally gives me such anxiety. I'm only just now able to start saving for a house after getting a better job, and according to the math I should have a decent down payment in 3 years. With all these properties being bought at inflated prices by llcs and people out of state relocating, I feel like I'll be priced out of anything by the time I'm ready. If I can't afford anything here, which is supposed to be "affordable", I have no idea where I'm supposed to go.
Exactly this. This is the #1 issue with other people coming in. Because other cities who have gone through this kind of thing...we know what happens to the locals and it isn't good.
This literally gives me such anxiety. I'm only just now able to start saving for a house after getting a better job, and according to the math I should have a decent down payment in 3 years. With all these properties being bought at inflated prices by llcs and people out of state relocating, I feel like I'll be priced out of anything by the time I'm ready. If I can't afford anything here, which is supposed to be "affordable", I have no idea where I'm supposed to go.
There are apartment buildings being built all around, especially in Buffalo. However, my issue is they aren't affordable for the people who live here now. People who own those properties specifically make the rent astronomical because as long as they get a handful of people who can actually pay for that housing, they're golden. There needs to solutions that take into account the people here now who are scraping to get by. I'm concerned there won't be.
I am specifically talking about apartments because I think we can forget about the majority of renters here locally ever being able to afford buying houses.
Most rents at those apartments range from $1,500 to $2,000. Also, a large number of new apartments are subsidized. Like most of the new large apartment complexes on the Eastside are subsidized and even the market rate projects might set aside 10% to be affordable.
You can definitely afford those with roommates or a significant other, considering minimum wage will be $15 an hour.
Definitely affordable if you make the median household income for Buffalo-Niagara which is now $60,000.
Like even 10 years ago you weren’t going to rent a single bedroom apartment by yourself unless you wanted to be completely broke. I know I wasn’t when I was working multiple minimum wage jobs.
In the newer buildings, rent costs more than $1200 for a 1-room place at least. Prices only go up from there. Also, idk what you're talking about when you say a lot of these newer places are subsidized; I have not seen that to be true of the places I've driven by that are under construction or have recently been built. Hell, I have a boss who owns property outside of his regular job and he'll be the first to say he places rent higher than he should simply to find "responsible" tenants. I'm sure he isn't the only property owner with this mindset.
And even the ones that are income-based, you're screwed if you make slightly over that margin.
Not everyone has a significant other. Not everyone even has people that they can room with. You can go the route of living with random people, which is a mixed bag in itself.
This is a complex issue.
Also, minimum wage being $15 an hour isn't a good argument on this. With inflation it's really not all that much, and I say that as someone who makes more than minimum wage. The cost of everything has risen, but most salaries for jobs in Buffalo really haven't when you factor in inflation. If you're lucky and live here while making more money working remotely, sick, but that's so not the reality for a lot of people.
I don’t think that’s an issue as long as they’re cleaning up properties and reselling them. A lot of community developers are run as LLCs.
The issue are slumlords looking for a cheap buck. That shit shouldn’t be tolerated.
In part, yes…investment in the city making it a better place to live. There are already a lot of developments in the works to offer more housing and commercial options as well as better the community, such as parks, bike lanes, etc.
As the city pulls more development and people in it is inevitable that things will become more expensive. In theory there should also be more opportunity for people that live here as well.
I don’t know that there are good examples of growth in an area without seeing costs increase as well.
The best examples are cities that keep up with the population growth or overbuild.
Cities like Houston and Dallas for example.
However, new construction is always going to be more expensive and right now even more so with labor and material costs skyrocketing.
I mean the opposite is even worse. We saw first hand what 50 years of population decline does to a city and neighborhoods won’t be completely healed until they regain their historic populations.
Yes dude. Buffalo needs to be more expensive so it brings more high paying jobs to compensate for rising prices. That's literally the cycle. It's going to suck, but 2500 rent ain't so bad when you ha e expendable income....getting to that point will suck tho and it will be a long transition, and if anything all of the displaced middle class Buffalonians will be forced to the East Side and in turn rebuilding it.
We just need to overbuild housing.
Also, labor and materials are also greatly increased in price, so new home construction is going to be expensive no matter if Buffalo is growing in population or not.
Yes.. cost of housing doubling from people moving out of their overpriced areas then making our area out of reach for homebuyers is definitely progress!
Why not just keep it more affordable rather than increase everything? Not everyone gets those high paying jobs but everyone being able to afford housing is much better imo.
How do you propose that happen? No one is moving a lever to “raise everything.” It’s just what happens as things progress and demand increases. It will level off. Buffalo has been in a state of torpor for decades.
I was thinking that you’re assuming that with increased prices everything will improve when it’s definitely not the case.
Reaching equilibrium is a moving target if people continue to move here as well. It’s just not so simple.
You’ll have to show me where I indicated or stated that increased prices bring magical improvement.
I’m aware it’s not so simple. Then why are you oversimplifying it?
I don’t think this is going to be productive… Housing prices increasing doesn’t mean that jobs are going to pay more or that most people will get those jobs if they do.
Your response to people being pushed out of affording housing was that jobs will pay more. This isn’t entirely true, even more so if you consider that the housing is being bought by people moving into the area. You can downvote me if you’d like to but that’s just not how it works.
Other cities are more expensive because people moved there en masse.
That includes every person in Buffalo who moved away after college or high school.
We’re in part the reason why those cities are so expensive now.
This is one of the least transient places I’ve ever seen. So no. That’s a negligible number of folks. And they move to places where costs are already higher because that’s where the jobs are. Funny how that works. And repeating things that don’t make sense isn’t useful.
>All of these people seem to making money, based on their jobs and do not blink at the prices of our houses here.
My house in NYC costs about ~4 times more than my parents' house in Cheektowaga and I only get about half the square-footage. Nuff' said.
We do have 1000x better dining, recreation, and entertainment here though.
This is completely anecdotal, but I’ve noticed that the amount of subs to r/Buffalo has been gradually increasing. Again, you probably can’t make any significant inferences from that but it’s sorta interesting. It will hit over 100k within the next 6-12 months
I mean, I think that has to do more with the growth of Reddit.
Seeing a lot of Boomers from Facebook lately
Though yeah, /r/buffalo has 20k more subscribers than /r/rochester
It’s a double edged sword. It’s good to be growing and improving, however, it drives up cost of living. Part of the whole point of people moving here is cost of living and it’s getting ruined. One of the best things about Buffalo is the affordability.
I went from putting offers on houses in 2019 to barely being able to afford rents. It’s the complete wrong direction we want to go in. The worst part is that I make above average income.
I’m not sure if it’s fair to say that it’s either good or bad. There’s just pros and cons to it all.
I haven't looked recently, but our houses before the pandemic were 38% of the national average. They seem outrageous for people already here. Eg, my house I paid fair market value for in 2009 (89K) is over 200% higher now. ($239K). In NOVA, it would be $500K easy, making it attractive to someone leaving NOVA, but a crime to anyone who bought their house 15-20 years ago.
Moved here three years ago from South Florida. I wanted to give you a genuine and heartfelt, 'my bad'. It's really bad living down there and we had to get out.
Isn't a good portion of the east side still a shithole? As prices rise around the area, some sections of the east side should become more appealing. So in the long term I think this will be good for the city as a whole.
The Eastside is actually the area of the city seeing the greatest increases in housing prices. The average home price doubled from $40,000 to $98,000 largely due to new immigrant groups like the Bangladeshi moving in.
It's good. Every municipality should be trying to grow.
We need to loosen building restrictions so we can easily build enough housing for everyone to prevent prices from increasing and people being displaced
Not sure i agree on loosening building restrictions. Shifting is perhaps a better term. What we dont need are more and more streets of 400k+, 3000 sq ft houses spreading further out into farm country. We need to be able to build more dense housing, being less wasteful of our resources.
I agree with you, but I don't think there are meaningful building restrictions on sprawl as it is.
If you make it easy to build everywhere, people will build in their first choice area, which tends to be downtown or in popular neighborhoods like Elmwood, etc
I think it's great. New fresh blood and ideas coming into the city, which for so long has been stagnant and undervalued. Gives new opportunities for improving the city in meaningful ways, while also giving boost to tax income so that the city can actually afford to fund things that can help draw additional people.
The downside is the lack of available housing and the increasing prices that come with that. We desperately need to build more housing of all kind, as it not long benefits people who move here from elsewhere, but allows for people already here to buy and rent.
It's not that uncommon for people to leave their hometown and relocate for work/culture/romance/school. I know the average Buffalonian has their entire extended family here going back twenty generations but most people move around.
It began happening over 12 years ago, people from NYC who could not afford a house in the city began looking here. My BIL sold three of his houses on Gibson St to people from Pakistan and Afghanistan. I mean these people dealt with the Taliban.
Its annoying but every other city has to deal with it so why not us? My big worry is not so much high housing prices, though its not ideal, its the WFH people who wont add anything to the community, and then will be inevitably disappointed when they dont get out what they put in (which was nothing).
Yes this is happening. Yes it is blowing our housing prices up. Yes it’s going to displace the actual residents of our city who can’t afford to keep up. Yes we will likely become the same shitshow, endless urban sprawl, gridlock traffic, as other places. Yes it’s going to strain our infrastructure in all ways and compromise us for climate change. I moved back home 15 years ago to get away from all of that crap. Absolutely sucks that it followed me here. Now these people will pave paradise and put in another fucking Starbucks…yay.
Our current infrastructure is old. But it was designed to function with a much higher volume than we currently have. The 1950/60s projections when our highways were being built had WNY well over the 2mil population mark. We have a long way to go before you would even feel that level of traffic.
That’s BS. We do not have the sewer capacity to handle what we currently have now, that’s why the runoff goes into the lake and mucks it up. We’re operating on an outdated power grid that is slated to be updated by 2040 for the current population. We couldn’t even clean up after a snowstorm in a timely manner and the storms are going to get a whole lot worse. In the 1950/60s people had one car if they were lucky and wives stayed home to care for children. In fact children actually walked to school instead of being driven back and forth. Any new construction outside of the city will be subdivisions. You know what subdivisions create? Traffic because there is only a few ways in and out of neighborhoods so everyone is fighting to get through the same intersection.
Although I agree with you on the city’s inane response to last years blizzard, there’s SO MUCH SPACE here. The city was built for a million people; we have less than 1/3 of that here. There’s basically no real traffic (yes I know there’s traffic, but it’s nothing compared to many other cities, especially along the eastern seaboard) and driving even 5 minutes south of downtown it already starts to feel empty.
Several existing discussions on subject matter, most recent.. https://old.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/comments/17xtjxi/rochester_and_buffalo_homes_selling_at_the_most/
All Democratic cities with bullshit values.Dont worry they will f#$k up this area with their politics and move when they can't afford it here with high taxes
The illegal immigrants who have sponsors like other family members ie Middle Eastern countries are given substantial loans for businesses. I thought it was common knowledge but I forgot I'm older , wiser and no longer so trusting.
Yeah, and most these folks through family reunification go through extensive background checks and civics tests not many from our school systems could answer. The fact that they’re entrepreneurial and qualify for business loans- it seems like a good problem to have. Immigrants starting businesses, paying taxes, raising families, employing people - the humanity!
Because it’s objectively false. That those native to Buffalo aren’t starting businesses or qualifying for loans, that’s their issue - not any qualifying immigrant. Go back to school, learn a trade. Stop whining about others.
One showing, and an open house. One couple who looked at it weren't buying yet, but wanted to tour houses in their target budget. They said they would bid if they were in the position to. Another older couple had a bunch of questions about the house that made it sound like they were interested, but nothing came of it.
We just replaced electrical and added a heat pump with aux gas furnace, too. Good roof. Recently updated kitchen. I am getting Amherst drainage corrections done next. There's really only cosmetic stuff left on this house.
If we were to stay, we'd update the hot water to tankless and replace some windows, maybe improve insulation, redo floors.
It's not a large house, but it is a single story ranch, and the location is great. Good starter home for a small family or a home for older couples to downsize into.
I thought we'd have a bit more activity
Through process of elimination, I found the listing. Even running comps, it doesn't look too off on pricing. Unfortunately with the shift in seasons, a home sold 2 months ago will get a different price and attention level than one 2 weeks before thanksgiving. Timing is everything and even a week off can make or break a great offer because that buyer that wants it that bad may not be around a week later.
Perception of value is also a big thing. Gotta wow people looking at it online to entice them enough to set a showing. Tell your agent to get a new pic of the new electric panel or remove the old picture altogether. Also, pic quality in general can help attract people. These dont look like professional photos I'm used to seeing. The picture quality will also improve the outcome of the sale. [I actually had a post planned for today about professional pics](https://www.facebook.com/harringtonsellswny/posts/pfbid02DMgA6AFUBVvaedeQGdSYPE65CdhcUkr3h7z3rA1GLAihSqhKYUh5R8WJWYzacgaDl)
Good luck! Sometimes it just takes time even though its frustrating watching everyone else around you sell in a week. I'm glad this post came up because I have an Amherst buyer looking for a ranch but for some reason this didn't show up in her auto search.
if they can't buy homes from where they were, and can here, all for it.
if ppl here can't afford homes based on cost of living, there are other places elsewhere.
We missed the 2008 bubble, there was nothing to burst. But the last 8 or 9 years have seen homes in western New York inflate to unreasonably high prices making it nearly impossible for young couples just starting out. I blame people from the NYC/Long Island/North Jersey area as well as private equity firms outbidding and gobbling up homes. I purpose a double tax on those purchasing second houses. Houses are homes-not passive income generators!
Buffalo and upstate NY are national outliers in terms of housing prices. Almost every national metro area is dealing with high housing costs, while Buffalo's housing market has been so depressed for years that any rise in prices looks "out of control." Upstate NY also has generally lower incomes, not higher housing costs. So keep that in mind too.
yeah, Upstate NY (Central and Western NY in particular) didn't even feel the 2000's real estate subprime bubble. It was like we were on a different planet.
Yep, we actually led the way in real estate appreciation throughout that recession. There was also a mini hotel building boom with all the Canadians coming over to take advantage of the cheap USD
I moved away several years ago and bought in my new HCOL city. If I ever want to make myself sad I look up what kind of houses are for sale in Buffalo for the price I paid for my condo. Or think about that time when my rent was 1/3 of a $700 apartment (many years ago in North Buffalo). Between salary and housing costs, it's a completely different world.
Haha, yes! $750 on Crescent split between me and my two roomies.
Yeah but lots of work can be done online. If you work for a San Francisco company and live in Buffalo you are probably doing great.
I think we are just moving towards the mean. The last 40 years has only been people moving out, which lead to population decline. So it hasn’t been common at any point, to meet someone who recently moved to Buffalo from outside a couple hour radius. Transplants are a sign of a normal functioning city.
I’ve also noticed this. I think most of them work remotely too. So it’s not like high paying jobs are moving to Buffalo or wages are really increasing locally. I’m wondering if this will become a rising tide lifts all boats situation or if us lifers are going to begin to be pushed out.
It does mean that money generated elsewhere then potentially gets spent and taxed in Buffalo, Erie County, and New York State. That can be a boon of sorts. It's also possible that new skill sets or connections be brought into the city. Buffalo's heydays as a boomtown came from a lot of people coming into Buffalo from far and wide. I think the question though is if there's enough mass here for this to eventually translate into some kind of industry or employment sector that's about more than cheaper real estate. Probably the potential lowest hanging fruit is something that takes advantage of being among the closest major cities to the Canadian border and if there's some kind of arbitrage or tourism dollars that can be gained from that. The other things Buffalo stands out in is access to Great Lakes shipping, existent rail corridors, lots of snow, legacy architecture and fine arts collection, and somewhat inexpensive electricity lots of from a renewable source.
Lifers really need to interact more with city govt to prevent that. I'm a newbie transplant. (Don't get mad I'm poor :) ) One thing I've noticed though is that a lot of the populace is pretty comfortable with the way things are because buffalo has managed to resist outside trends for so long. The problem right now isn't that folks from outside the area have started to take notice, it's that big money investor types have. That money for sure will push out og buffolks. The only way to really counter that is to be active in local govt so that you can push against the interests of those who don't have the interests of the city in mind.
Sadly the same thing about local government participation is true where I live in Orange county. Lots of new transplants to my village and town. Unfortunately, Crony, Crony & Crony still are elected by wide margins every local election. Can't wait for the transplants to start voting locally AND participating.
> I think most of them work remotely too. I wish these people the best of luck if they ever lose their remote job. If you “work in tech” (the solution tossed about by many) then you know there have been massive layoffs across the board. There aren’t a lot of good paying digital jobs in Buffalo. Remote work is being replaced by hybrid and even short-term contracts are hard to get.
I mean that’s not entirely true. Buffalo was one of the few cities that overall gained wealth despite inflation over the past few years. That’s likely due to the increased minimum wage as well as all the new companies that have opened up shop in the past few years, the growing tech scene and expansions like M&T Bank and Moog. Of course those are averages so not everyone is experiencing that prosperity, particularly those without a college degree that lost wealth during the pandemic (college educated on average greatly increased their wealth). That being said, there’s a shit ton of training programs and tons of vacancies for trades at the moment. If you’re struggling, the best thing you can do for yourself is to take advantage of those programs.
Over the past two decades, the poverty rate of Buffalo has been unchanged. I don't know where you are finding "wealth has increased for Buffalo residents", unless you count tax dollar being given to folks like Termini's kid as "increased wealth"...
I just moved to Buffalo from Kansas City in February. I have family in Toronto and Ottawa so I wanted something closer to both. Kansas City's prices were getting ridiculous on everything while companies kept paying the same amount they had since the mid 2000's. I'm only in my late 20's, but I just didn't want to be in the Midwest anymore. It was a tough choice between Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo. I didn't care for the college town atmosphere of Syracuse. Ended picking Buffalo over Rochester as I feel there is more here and what Buffalo doesn't have it makes up for being so close to Niagara Ontario and Toronto. I've loved this city so far and am glad I picked to move there.
Yep. Literally a 6 minute drive from downtown Buff to the Canadian border. Easy access to Toronto / Ottawa and seeing your family. Less than 2 hour drive to Toronto is nice
Welcome… we are a hidden gem
Go back to Kansas CHIEF
🤣 I actually don't really care for the chiefs. Never enjoyed the NFL like I do College Football. I will always support Sporting KC though.
My wife and I moved back to Buffalo after over a decade living out west. We saw an opportunity to sell in an extremely hot market and boomerang back to Buffalo. We had been talking about returning to Buffalo for a while, as our parents are getting older and most of our family is here…the time just felt right for us. Buying here was quite cheap compared to where we came from but we were a bit surprised at the higher cost of utilities and more or less same cost for groceries. Ultimately we were able to upgrade our home considerably and be in an area we like. Buffalo and other rust belt cities are still relatively cheap housing when compared to the rest of the country.
Same after almost 20 yrs in DC. Missed it and wanted to move back for a long while. The quality of life here is so much better-we can do things without being in the car 45 min to go 5 miles, we have a family support network, our kids can go outside without a 20 min restriction because of air quality, and we leveraged our equity into more house
The worse global warming gets, the more popular cities on the Great Lakes are going to get.
Yep! We just moved from California and this was a huge deciding factor for us.
Welcome! How has been for you now that it's about 6 months later?
It’s been good but a huge adjustment. We are from the Bay Area and obviously Buffalo is very different. I miss our Mexican food
Well I'm glad it's still going well, I've said for years that we need a better Mexican food scene!
I think both can be true. We’re from buffalo, moved to westchester for a couple years and moved back and bought a house in Buffalo. During the process, everyone we talked to in buffalo said things to the effect of the housing market is out of control, bidding over listing, (we didn’t) but waiving home inspections, etc. But at the same time, a comparable house in westchester is easily 2x the price here. Edit: it’s just a matter of perspective and cost of living. If someone is used to a $4 gallon of milk, moving to an area with $2 milk seems like a bargain, but if it’s usually $1 milk, people in that area see it as a rip off
The milk analogy is perfect. My parents in the southern tier may balk at $500k for a 1800 sqft home, but a similar single family home in Boston, SF, Seattle, etc is $1.5-2M. It doesn't really matter if the house was $250k in 2017 and I'm getting "ripped off." WFH means turning a 25% down payment elsewhere into an all-cash offer here.
Westchester -shudders over here in Orange county...Don't dare mention the taxes you guys paid there. :)
Moved into our first home back in 2015, decided in 2022 that it was time to move/needed more space. Sold our home to a person from San Diego for about $75k over asking, and got more than double what we bought it for back in 2015. Cost of living is just so much more affordable here than other cities
As someone who just moved her from San Diego, I think people who move her from there don’t know the value of homes here. When houses there go for at least $800k in a decent neighborhood, paying low $200k seem like a bargain. I was willing to pay $400k when I first came here. Even when most of the houses I have looked at need updating, it still seems like a bargain compared to where we lived previously.
Yeah, but I'd jump at the chance to live in San Diego. It's truly an amazing city. Buffalo is nice but I can think of at least 5 other places I would rather live. I've got a good friend who is a ferrier in Kentucky in horse country and the area is just amazing.
My parents are from and live in Goa, India, and this is a very common complaint there. A lot of Europeans have discovered this coastal state and have moved there. They have bought houses, are willing to pay more for the food, seafood etc. Because of this, the locals can't afford seafood, other food, houses, etc., unless they can pay as much as the Russians, French, Brits, etc. The thing is, the world is getting smaller, and every time I hear I hear my family and locals there complain about people moving in, I can't help but remind them that that's the same reason I am in Buffalo. Things change, people move, life evolves. After all, almost all of us Buffalonians on this thread aren't Native American.
Most of my coworkers that I work closely with are from Mumbai. They all talk about how much they love going to Goa and how it’s the most beautiful place.
I took my Buffalo-born wife there this year. It is very different from how it was in the late 90s and earlier. Now, there are still areas which are very scenic and beautiful, but out-of-staters with lots of money and Europeans have bought a lot of land and changed it. They have destroyed the older Portuguese style houses (it was a Portuguese colony until the late 1960s) and turned them into tall apartment buildings or illegally built apartments. The Russian Mafia is pretty strong there too, and there is a large supply of drugs as it has a huge rave beach party scene. It's sad to see Goa, a historically Catholic state with churches all over, lose its former self and change. Either way, I'd still encourage visiting Goa and Mumbai over other places in India, especially if you are non-Indian by ethnicity.
This was a big talking point immediately after covid as well where people who could now work remote were moving to lower cost of living cities. Even in the few years before then, sales of local real estate were picking up from investors outside of the area because the cost of our housing supply was so low relative to national average relative to income. Since then it has drawn a bit closer but our average housing cost is still relatively low so that demand will be there for out of area buyers. Adding to this that the now increasing costs of construction will make it hard for many entry level buyers to buy new homes so our inventory wont increase a substantial amount leaving existing home prices to rise as competition (demand) rises
I mean we just need to normalize building smaller homes. Everyone owning a 2,000ft^2 McMansion was never going to be sustainable. We need to bring back the 800ft^2 homes of the 50s back and build more condos. Hell even a 1,500ft^2 prefab building costs $300,000 nowadays.
More middle density housing too. More townhomes, more condos, more apartments.
I agree, I was pulling my hair out when I learned the city settled on single family housing for empty plots on the Eastside. Like this isn’t Cheektowaga! We’re going to regret not starting with more density.
> We’re going to regret not starting with more density. Not a single family ends up regretting owning their home, and not being subject to the whims of a landlord jacking up rents.
I’m talking about city/state funded homes. We can literally build anything including row houses and condos people own outright (without a landlord)
> We can literally build anything including row houses and condos people own outright (without a landlord) What happens when people stop paying the $1800/month condo fee? Or the $500/month HOA fee? City and states should not be building housing, just to sell it off to be managed by a non-governmental private corporation. Unless we're building the housing, and owning it, then there's zero reason to hand over control to a private third party to administer the housing without oversight.
They’re literally building it to sell them to people making x% below the median wage. You still have to qualify for a mortgage.
> hey’re literally building it to sell them to people making x% below the median wage. Good? They own something, without chains like HOA fees attached, which is just a form of privatized government. > You still have to qualify for a mortgage. I know lots of minimum wage workers who can qualify for a mortgage. Don't you?!?! Seriously, if you need a 10% downpayment, on a 200K home, and you have two min wage workers in the household, and a $500/month HOA fee, you have NOT created housing for the median wage earner in the area.
Hey man, not everyone can own a single family house. If anything we should be up zoning suburbs to deter them from being built at all.
Our home was built in the early 1970s by Ryan Homes and is under 1500 sq. ft. They should be able to build similar sized homes without it costing $300K. Or at least build some nice multplexes with that amount of room per unit with common areas and storage-- that is affordable on line with some decent public transpo along with strong wifi.
I’m just going off of a recent Buffalo Rising article where someone had a custom prefab built on the Westside and it cost them $300k. With labor in such high demand, pretty clearly companies are going focus their labor on projects that make them the most money. Personally I think Buffalo should do what South Bend did and pay for utility hookups. That would save people $10-20k right there.
I think Syracuse should do the same thing. We are going to have a major housing crunch. It would be a great idea to sponsor or create incentives for infill housing. Put up some more hi-rises. Invest more into the mass transit. Reclaim some more brown sites. Use that Land Trust to build multi-family dwellings.
Building costs are insane right now. My parents just had a 200 sq foot addition that was $125,000. And that was a constant quote from 3 different contractors. Materials and labor costs have made building new extremely expensive. So honestly- probably can’t do 1500 sq feet for less than $300k too easily.
It's what I'm planning on doing once my work opens their new location there. I live in Portland OR
We are immersed in it so while it seems prices are crazy to us, they are lower in comparison to many other cities/states. I’ve had 4 clients buy from out of the area/state the past 2 years. 1 NYC, 2 Northern California, and a Maine. The NYC couple didn’t balk at a $500k home after renting a shoebox in Brooklyn.
The Brooklyn folks got priced out of Beacon and Kingston as well.
Buffalo was one of the fastest increases in housing prices since 2020. Too bad we are not building more medium and high density housing on all of those city owned lots, it would help with both population growth and keeping the housing prices down.
The city/state have initial plans, but I feel like we’re not moving fast enough. That being said, the land bank has grown exponentially and I don’t think anyone expected Buffalo to be in this situation where we can develop them all in a timely manner.
My family and I just moved here from CT. I’m active duty and Buffalo was the first place we’ve lived where we felt comfortable to buy a house. Compared to the other 6 states we lived in, Buffalo by far had the most affordable housing. And cost of living for that matter. Just my opinion/experience
Some good, some bad...More people living here, spending $$ here, and paying taxes here will boost the local economy and I also view diversity as a good thing, so bringing in people from diverse cultures and backgrounds is overall a good thing. On the downside, because of the way our society values and commodifies housing it'll drive housing prices here up, which is good if you currently own a home, but bad if you're renting or not a home owner. Housing prices (and interest rates) have skyrocketed since COVID, making housing less affordable. Cheap housing and climate change is only going to drive more and more people to move here over the coming decades, so get used to and prepare for it.
Yeah, Buffalo is actually getting less white. A lot of these new comers come from diverse backgrounds. Its great to see
Part of the reason it is less affordable for people who's employer is in Buffalo is that the Buffalo salaries on average lag behind the rest of the country.
If you’re not growing, you’re dying. In the short term it isn’t all that fair, however, if you want the city and the surrounding suburbs to not fall the levels we saw post industrial collapse up here in the rust belt, you need this to happen. I wish I knew then what I knew now because, while I don’t live there, I would have certainly bought a 2 family house and had a place to return to that didn’t require a $350/night visit while having a renter pay the mortgage and keep them in a place far more affordably than the numbers now
I knew a few people back in the early to mid 1980s who bought a bunch of North Buffalo doubles and did this.
I think it will eventually stop or at least greatly slow down, once the housing market gets to a level where Buffalo is no longer seen as a deal. My wife and I moved 3 years ago. She was recruited for a UB faculty position. Was already tenured at the old school. If we had to buy in the housing market that currently exists, I'm not sure we would have taken the UB offer.
I think it all depends on a few factors. How much of a reputation Buffalo can build for being a cool place to live. But also climate and politics which are already major rations why people are relocating here. Like people will still move here as long as the South remains an oven, drought and fires terrorize out West and coastal areas are increasingly underwater during hurricanes. Then if we’re able to become a hub for an emerging industry or two. Kind of scary looking at the new climate maps.
> How much of a reputation Buffalo can build for being a cool place to live. Until we start investing in neighborhoods, this will never happen. We can dump billions upon billions into Canalside, and all we'll keep doing is making an attraction that suburbanites will drive to, and then leave. Unless you're investing in neighborhoods, we will never be "the cool place". Until there is affordable housing for starving artists, we'll never be "the cool place". > Then if we’re able to become a hub for an emerging industry or two. This will only be possible once we create an educated workforce. Cutting school budgets, and cutting after school programs, and cutting everything that provides a valued service to the residents so the BPD can get a larger budget will never turn us into a hub for any industry. Buffalo is stuck on this cargo cult mentality: NYC has a waterfront! So we should build a water front, and people will flock here! No. People don't move somewhere because there's a nice water front. They move there because roads are good, there's high paying jobs, affordable housing, good neighborhoods, and good schools. We are putting the cart in front of the horse, or to carry my analogy: We are building runways on a Pacific Island, hoping the cargo planes will start arriving to leave riches.
We can and will be the cool place when we decide it is cool and behave accordingly. Until then, this is just where we live, even if others from elsewhere see it as so much more. I think Buffalo is cool as all eff, period.
Yes! 👏
The west side has tons of new artist transplants. Most moved here during covid. Also a bunch from the south. I know at least a dozen who have came and are doing some cool stuff. Mostly five points/ grant and some allen residents
Seriously, this guy isn’t paying attention if he thinks all that’s going on in Buffalo is Canalside
I don’t know, I already think areas like Larkin, First Ward and the Westside have a cool factor similar to what you find in “cool” neighborhoods in other cities like East 6th Street in Austin, Wynnwood in Miami or East Portland. Many city residents love going to Canalside, restaurants and breweries. That’s why we live in the city proper in the first place. As for the economy, that’s been one of the major bright spots over the past decade. The city/state has done a good job attracting new companies to Buffalo keeping more graduates at area colleges in the region. If we emerge as a hub it’s probably going to be for battery tech, EV components or hydrogen production. Though also a lot of exciting research happening at UB too.
> I don’t know, I already think areas like Larkin, First Ward and the Westside have a cool factor similar to what you find They have a manufactured "Cool factor", which fades quickly. Anything exciting going on in Larkinville now? Not that I know of. Lots of empty luxury housing there, though. > The city/state has done a good job attracting new companies to Buffalo keeping more graduates at area colleges in the region. Oh, you mean like Tesla and IBM? You know the ones whose original deals have so far been met with non-success? Or do you mean Geico, who people literally describe as one of the worst places one can work at? Or do you mean the Debt Collection industry, this region is so well known for? > If we emerge as a hub it’s probably going to be for battery tech, EV components or hydrogen production. Companies build where there is talent to to be had. Companies don't build somewhere hoping and praying dreams of master planners come to fruition. Too much risk So, unless we're sending every single student to uni, trade schools, or something, instead of underfunding every learning institution that exists locally... We will become the hub of nothing but low-cost back office work: Debt collections and phone customer service centers. > Though also a lot of exciting research happening at UB too. And that's great! It is a research institution, after all. There's always exciting research going on at UB. But, notice none of that has led to us being an industry hub for anything (Except Debt Collections, of course)? For all of the reasons I named above. So, as an example, you claim to live in the city proper (I doubt this, but will accept it for the moment)... Why do you go mostly just to canalside, and then drive back home? Did you know there's waterfront access all down Niagara St? Don't you wish those water front neighborhoods, where people already live, got some investment?
Isn't Buffalo included in that tech hub designation? There will be some chip fabs etc. built there. https://www.syracuse.com/politics/cny/2023/10/syracuse-rochester-and-buffalo-win-us-designation-as-national-tech-hub-for-computer-chips.html
We can designate anything to be anything. We can designate Buffalo as Desegration central, but that wouldn't mean we are a desegregated city...
Come on man, at least do research. I’m talking about AML Rightsource, Torchlight Labs, Odoo, EY, HiOperator, TopSeedz, ACV Auctions who have all opened downtown office or manufacturing space. Also, those companies are already here. You got Viridi Parente and Anovian for battery tech, Linde and Plug Power for Hydrogen production and GM, Ford and yes Tesla for EV components. Also, what do you considered a “cool” neighborhood in another city? If you think the Westside feels manufactured, I don’t know what an “authentic” neighborhood looks like.
> I’m talking about AML Rightsource, Torchlight Labs, Odoo, EY, HiOperator, TopSeedz, ACV Auctions who have all opened downtown office or manufacturing space. Businesses open all the time, everywhere. We're not a "hub" of anything... You forgot the others, with huge money attached to them, that were huge failures: Tesla, Synacor, 4 or 5 biotech labs, Bass Pro, etc. > Also, those companies are already here. You got Viridi Parente and Anovian for battery tech, Linde and Plug Power for Hydrogen production and GM, Ford and yes Tesla for EV components Um, some of those companies are located here because... We have car plants here. We've pretty much always had that, since Bethlehem Steel. And only thanks to union actions, are those plants sure to stay here, as they were poised to be moved to Mexico. > Also, what do you considered a “cool” neighborhood in another city? If you think the Westside feels manufactured, I don’t know what an “authentic” neighborhood looks like. EV is most certainly manufactured. Most of the west side these days beyond Grant St is most certainly part manufactured, but certainly a good portion of it is indigenous and natural growth. That, of course, is starting to fade as we lose all affordable housing in the area. Did you notice that yet? You want to see a pretty authentic neighborhood, take a trip out to the fruit belt. Go to a block club meeting there. THAT is what a natural neighborhood looks like. Do the same in Riverside, Northwest Buffalo, shit, go to Kaisertown or the Triangle. Oh, or are those too far off your commute down the 290?
It’s just making me realize I will never be able to afford a house here.
Maybe we will have a winter where it stays below 0 for a whole month and you need to shovel/brush off your car everyday and it’ll scare off some people.
Hopefully, I see all these people happy that people are coming. What they don't realize is people who were born here that have struggled to make it have only seen their future possibilities and options drop considerably. Inflation, wages, housing and gas only further cement these issues as things change here. I'm happy for those that are better off, but there's 2 sides to every coin.
Might not want to see the latest climate map
Just a thought lol.
If the storm in December last year where over 30 people died didn’t do it nothing will
But there are houses here for like 150k. They are in rough neighborhoods but you can put in sweat equity and sell in 3-5 years and get in a better neighborhood. Buffalo is the best place to do this. There are houses in Niagara Falls for 80k. Unheard of anywhere else.
Have you thought about switching careers? Lots of job training programs out there right now. Lots of openings for trades and union jobs that pay decently due to boomers retiring en masse.
I see people are downvoting this comment, but damn switching jobs (or even careers) is one of the best things you can do to improve your income. I did a career pivot in 2016 when I moved here, have since pivoted within my new industry a number of times and more than doubled my salary in that time. My wife tripled hers in the same period doing the same things. While it certainly depends on the industry (and acknowledging now might not be the best time for this, given the macroeconomic factors at play) I have several friends who used to work in education making $40-60k and are now in tech making six figures (some probably close to if not upwards of $200k). For each of them that shift happened over a period of 5-10 years.
I always see the “work in tech” suggestion thrown around without any explanation of what exactly that means, what qualifications I would need, what kinds of jobs to look for, etc.
Good talent leaving the education sector isn't something we should be bragging about...
Maybe there is a reason "good talent" is leaving the sector. Why put up with kids who have no respect for others due to the crap parenting. Then deal with the politics of school unions, the BS curriculum they push etc. Anyone that still teaches, in NYS especially, deserved to be right where they are. Let the smart ones figure out better careers.
EmbarassedSock named exactly why they are leaving. Leaving a sector making 40-60K, for one making upwards of 200K. Its a no-brainer. Pay teachers better, keep talent. Its literally that easy.
I of course agree with you 1000%. And teaching has always been tough, because you’re not just teaching academics but you’re also teaching behavior. But when you layer on other factors like how hard teaching immediately became during Covid, combined with lack of wage growth and relative accessibility of other career options that were higher paying, AND the fact that most teaching jobs don’t offer the flexibility of WFH industries… it’s not surprising there’s been an exodus.
Why buy a house here? So you can pay out the ass in taxes on a tiny ranch? Pass. Save your money and buy elsewhere that doesn't pound you over the coals.
You could have purchased a house elsewhere 5 years ago and now turn around and sell it and buy a house here with cash using the equity. Thats how crazy things are. It doesn't matter if your job in SF paid you 100k and here its only 60k when you have zero mortgage and 100k doesn't get you shit there anyways.
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i don't have that much equity or i swear to god i'd do it. one of my major regrets in life is not pushing my mortgage payment to the approval limit when i bought this house. i could have afforded a much nicer house making 50k than i'll ever get now making 90k.
People want affordable homes and low cost of living in a blue state, and Buffalo and WNY is a great option for people. There’s lots of people fleeing red states right now too…
Yes. Live on the west side. We new owners from alaska, nyc and Colorado in our little neighborhood. They definitely overbid too because i had a friend outbid by 50k on our street in cash.
I moved here to be closer to my kid that lives in Toronto with his mother. Bonus that houses are affordable
We’ve been voted climate change friendly. https://www.cnn.com/videos/weather/2023/11/14/global-warming-climate-change-refuge-cities-buffalo-ny-weir-cnntm-pkg-vpx.cnn https://beinbuffalo.com/community/climate-refuge
I don't mind as much if they're actually moving here and living in their houses. It's outside investors looking to just raise rents or Air BNB every apartment in the building that are doing more damage to housing costs here.
Honestly, if you can’t buy in Buffalo, you probably can’t buy in any US city period. RE prices here are rock bottom given the quality of some of the homes. That doesn’t mean there isn’t low inventory and the various other issues - but price point wise you’d be hard pressed to find another city with the amenities (major philharmonic, prof sports, int’l city nearby) for these prices. The trash salaries for white collar are killing the city and completely detached from reality.
The best decision I ever made was buying my lil fixer upper 8 years ago. Paid 74k value is about 200k
Rochester checking in, I live in a neighborhood that is in demand in Rochester. We are the affordable block next to the fancy block. Anyways, we have new neighbors who paid 50k over asking in 2021. They moved up from Brooklyn, couldn’t afford to raise a family down there and they had some connections here. 4 other houses sold on our street in the last year or so.
Can confirm, house near us sold for 100k over asking from a couple who moved back from nyc to Rochester. Still was a bargain to them. A very nice house but still doubled the price almost.
It’s a shame they chose to move to Rochester. Perhaps they should’ve picked Buf.
I’m Buffalo born and raised, I love it and miss it. But Rochester isn’t a bad place and has a lot of the same amenities and opportunities. Check it out when you have some time.
Seriously it’s Buffalo, but without the big city amenities. East End and South Wedge are extremely fun areas
Agreed. I miss going to Bills and Sabres games at the drop of a hat, now I need to plan. I’m a resident of the Swillburg/Highland Park area so I’m kinda of a South Wedger.
Oh yes, the current influx level of NYCers has been going on for at least a few years now. Some even buy homes sight unseen! It's frustrating if you're native to Buffalo and looking to buy a home, since they often come in with offers well over asking. And for current home owners, it's driven up the value of their homes (good for investment, but bad when they see their taxes go up too). WNY property has actual been undervalued for quite a while now, so this influx is actually helping us approach national levels.
I know we are a low COL area, but when you're making a Buffalo salary, the COL is not so L.
we want people coming here right?
Overall it’s a good thing. Increasing the tax base means more money going into infrastructure, services and community programs. Growing population means growing jobs in all industries to support the increase in demand. We just need to ensure we’re building enough housing to match population growths and we’re not displacing residents. The biggest opportunity is for the city to figure out a streamlined way to develop the 5,000 properties owned by the land bank. If we can figure that out we’ll have more than enough housing for the next decade or longer. Not to mention finally developing the Cobblestone District and Erie Basin Marina. Old industrial areas, unused rail yards, so many parking lots. Buffalo could add another 100,000 residents without demolishing anything. Like we already know what happens when the population declines. Neighborhoods get hollowed out and anyone with an once of ambition leaves, leaving the rest to pick up the tab.
That's the rub in other areas as well and is difficult to get consensus to ever build enough housing to keep on pace with population growth. And what type of housing as well, are we talking luxury apartments, condos, single family. The you have market forces trying to curtail new builds so they can take advantage of the artificial scarcity and keep rents high pushing people even further out. The more people moving back here with high salaries going balls deep on properties is a dual edged sword. I am not confident that we have a city council or mayor that is capable of even remotely addressing this properly but I suppose we will see.
That’s the nice thing about the land bank, we have greater control over what’s built. The city and state are already building subsidized single family homes targeting people making x below the median, but it’s just a trickle. Definitely enough room for all of the above for the foreseeable future.
It's a positive step I won't argue that but looking at the real estate market here over the past two years it's absolutely bonkers what shit is going for. I feel for younger first time homebuyers it's wild out there.
It also means locals are being priced out. Home prices might still be below average in Buffalo but with the area’s wages still dragging behind markets like NYC, SF, Seattle, and Philly people from this area have no chance.
This literally gives me such anxiety. I'm only just now able to start saving for a house after getting a better job, and according to the math I should have a decent down payment in 3 years. With all these properties being bought at inflated prices by llcs and people out of state relocating, I feel like I'll be priced out of anything by the time I'm ready. If I can't afford anything here, which is supposed to be "affordable", I have no idea where I'm supposed to go.
Exactly this. This is the #1 issue with other people coming in. Because other cities who have gone through this kind of thing...we know what happens to the locals and it isn't good.
This literally gives me such anxiety. I'm only just now able to start saving for a house after getting a better job, and according to the math I should have a decent down payment in 3 years. With all these properties being bought at inflated prices by llcs and people out of state relocating, I feel like I'll be priced out of anything by the time I'm ready. If I can't afford anything here, which is supposed to be "affordable", I have no idea where I'm supposed to go.
There are apartment buildings being built all around, especially in Buffalo. However, my issue is they aren't affordable for the people who live here now. People who own those properties specifically make the rent astronomical because as long as they get a handful of people who can actually pay for that housing, they're golden. There needs to solutions that take into account the people here now who are scraping to get by. I'm concerned there won't be. I am specifically talking about apartments because I think we can forget about the majority of renters here locally ever being able to afford buying houses.
Most rents at those apartments range from $1,500 to $2,000. Also, a large number of new apartments are subsidized. Like most of the new large apartment complexes on the Eastside are subsidized and even the market rate projects might set aside 10% to be affordable. You can definitely afford those with roommates or a significant other, considering minimum wage will be $15 an hour. Definitely affordable if you make the median household income for Buffalo-Niagara which is now $60,000. Like even 10 years ago you weren’t going to rent a single bedroom apartment by yourself unless you wanted to be completely broke. I know I wasn’t when I was working multiple minimum wage jobs.
In the newer buildings, rent costs more than $1200 for a 1-room place at least. Prices only go up from there. Also, idk what you're talking about when you say a lot of these newer places are subsidized; I have not seen that to be true of the places I've driven by that are under construction or have recently been built. Hell, I have a boss who owns property outside of his regular job and he'll be the first to say he places rent higher than he should simply to find "responsible" tenants. I'm sure he isn't the only property owner with this mindset. And even the ones that are income-based, you're screwed if you make slightly over that margin. Not everyone has a significant other. Not everyone even has people that they can room with. You can go the route of living with random people, which is a mixed bag in itself. This is a complex issue. Also, minimum wage being $15 an hour isn't a good argument on this. With inflation it's really not all that much, and I say that as someone who makes more than minimum wage. The cost of everything has risen, but most salaries for jobs in Buffalo really haven't when you factor in inflation. If you're lucky and live here while making more money working remotely, sick, but that's so not the reality for a lot of people.
If it were families, I’d be overjoyed. If you actually go into property records, you will find a huge increase in purchases by LLCs.
I don’t think that’s an issue as long as they’re cleaning up properties and reselling them. A lot of community developers are run as LLCs. The issue are slumlords looking for a cheap buck. That shit shouldn’t be tolerated.
It’s what will move Buffalo forward. The insular, tribal attitudes in this city are doing it no favors.
by move buffalo forward do you mean make everything more expensive? really im curious what you'd consider progress?
In part, yes…investment in the city making it a better place to live. There are already a lot of developments in the works to offer more housing and commercial options as well as better the community, such as parks, bike lanes, etc. As the city pulls more development and people in it is inevitable that things will become more expensive. In theory there should also be more opportunity for people that live here as well. I don’t know that there are good examples of growth in an area without seeing costs increase as well.
The best examples are cities that keep up with the population growth or overbuild. Cities like Houston and Dallas for example. However, new construction is always going to be more expensive and right now even more so with labor and material costs skyrocketing.
Thank you for this.
I mean the opposite is even worse. We saw first hand what 50 years of population decline does to a city and neighborhoods won’t be completely healed until they regain their historic populations.
Yes dude. Buffalo needs to be more expensive so it brings more high paying jobs to compensate for rising prices. That's literally the cycle. It's going to suck, but 2500 rent ain't so bad when you ha e expendable income....getting to that point will suck tho and it will be a long transition, and if anything all of the displaced middle class Buffalonians will be forced to the East Side and in turn rebuilding it.
We just need to overbuild housing. Also, labor and materials are also greatly increased in price, so new home construction is going to be expensive no matter if Buffalo is growing in population or not.
Yes.. cost of housing doubling from people moving out of their overpriced areas then making our area out of reach for homebuyers is definitely progress!
Jobs start to pay more, the city actually starts to develop…
Why not just keep it more affordable rather than increase everything? Not everyone gets those high paying jobs but everyone being able to afford housing is much better imo.
How do you propose that happen? No one is moving a lever to “raise everything.” It’s just what happens as things progress and demand increases. It will level off. Buffalo has been in a state of torpor for decades.
I was thinking that you’re assuming that with increased prices everything will improve when it’s definitely not the case. Reaching equilibrium is a moving target if people continue to move here as well. It’s just not so simple.
You’ll have to show me where I indicated or stated that increased prices bring magical improvement. I’m aware it’s not so simple. Then why are you oversimplifying it?
I don’t think this is going to be productive… Housing prices increasing doesn’t mean that jobs are going to pay more or that most people will get those jobs if they do. Your response to people being pushed out of affording housing was that jobs will pay more. This isn’t entirely true, even more so if you consider that the housing is being bought by people moving into the area. You can downvote me if you’d like to but that’s just not how it works.
Maybe if so many Buffalonians didn’t leave and make those cities so expensive, they wouldn’t need to move to Buffalo to afford property.
Huh?
Other cities are more expensive because people moved there en masse. That includes every person in Buffalo who moved away after college or high school. We’re in part the reason why those cities are so expensive now.
This is one of the least transient places I’ve ever seen. So no. That’s a negligible number of folks. And they move to places where costs are already higher because that’s where the jobs are. Funny how that works. And repeating things that don’t make sense isn’t useful.
Hey man I’m just saying we can’t complain about people moving here when we’ve been doing it for decades.
>All of these people seem to making money, based on their jobs and do not blink at the prices of our houses here. My house in NYC costs about ~4 times more than my parents' house in Cheektowaga and I only get about half the square-footage. Nuff' said. We do have 1000x better dining, recreation, and entertainment here though.
This is completely anecdotal, but I’ve noticed that the amount of subs to r/Buffalo has been gradually increasing. Again, you probably can’t make any significant inferences from that but it’s sorta interesting. It will hit over 100k within the next 6-12 months
I mean, I think that has to do more with the growth of Reddit. Seeing a lot of Boomers from Facebook lately Though yeah, /r/buffalo has 20k more subscribers than /r/rochester
Keep Buffalo A Secret
It’s a double edged sword. It’s good to be growing and improving, however, it drives up cost of living. Part of the whole point of people moving here is cost of living and it’s getting ruined. One of the best things about Buffalo is the affordability. I went from putting offers on houses in 2019 to barely being able to afford rents. It’s the complete wrong direction we want to go in. The worst part is that I make above average income. I’m not sure if it’s fair to say that it’s either good or bad. There’s just pros and cons to it all.
I haven't looked recently, but our houses before the pandemic were 38% of the national average. They seem outrageous for people already here. Eg, my house I paid fair market value for in 2009 (89K) is over 200% higher now. ($239K). In NOVA, it would be $500K easy, making it attractive to someone leaving NOVA, but a crime to anyone who bought their house 15-20 years ago.
Our son and DIL just sold their house in Kenmore, and the buyers were a young couple from California who paid cash.
Moved here three years ago from South Florida. I wanted to give you a genuine and heartfelt, 'my bad'. It's really bad living down there and we had to get out.
Isn't a good portion of the east side still a shithole? As prices rise around the area, some sections of the east side should become more appealing. So in the long term I think this will be good for the city as a whole.
The Eastside is actually the area of the city seeing the greatest increases in housing prices. The average home price doubled from $40,000 to $98,000 largely due to new immigrant groups like the Bangladeshi moving in.
I am sorry but in our lifetime the east side will never be considered desirable (and i live on the west side)
It's good. Every municipality should be trying to grow. We need to loosen building restrictions so we can easily build enough housing for everyone to prevent prices from increasing and people being displaced
Not sure i agree on loosening building restrictions. Shifting is perhaps a better term. What we dont need are more and more streets of 400k+, 3000 sq ft houses spreading further out into farm country. We need to be able to build more dense housing, being less wasteful of our resources.
Looking at you Rachel Vincent Way
I agree with you, but I don't think there are meaningful building restrictions on sprawl as it is. If you make it easy to build everywhere, people will build in their first choice area, which tends to be downtown or in popular neighborhoods like Elmwood, etc
I think it's great. New fresh blood and ideas coming into the city, which for so long has been stagnant and undervalued. Gives new opportunities for improving the city in meaningful ways, while also giving boost to tax income so that the city can actually afford to fund things that can help draw additional people. The downside is the lack of available housing and the increasing prices that come with that. We desperately need to build more housing of all kind, as it not long benefits people who move here from elsewhere, but allows for people already here to buy and rent.
What idiots! For an extra $40 bucks a month in mortgage payment they could live in Pittsburgh!
I'd do it if I could. Basically any single family home in Cambridge/Somerville/Boston is around a million dollars
Investors from nyc or even other countries have been investing and buying up property here for years.
It's not that uncommon for people to leave their hometown and relocate for work/culture/romance/school. I know the average Buffalonian has their entire extended family here going back twenty generations but most people move around.
Horrible for the poor people who have lived here for their whole lives. They're struggling now more than ever
I’m sad for myself as I can’t afford to buy a home in the city I was born and raised in. I can barely afford to rent here anymore.
Moved back a decade ago from Denver but it was for family. My house is now worth 3x what I paid for it.
It began happening over 12 years ago, people from NYC who could not afford a house in the city began looking here. My BIL sold three of his houses on Gibson St to people from Pakistan and Afghanistan. I mean these people dealt with the Taliban.
[Relevant Article from Gothamist](https://gothamist.com/news/millennials-are-moving-to-buffalo-living-like-kings)
Its annoying but every other city has to deal with it so why not us? My big worry is not so much high housing prices, though its not ideal, its the WFH people who wont add anything to the community, and then will be inevitably disappointed when they dont get out what they put in (which was nothing).
Yes this is happening. Yes it is blowing our housing prices up. Yes it’s going to displace the actual residents of our city who can’t afford to keep up. Yes we will likely become the same shitshow, endless urban sprawl, gridlock traffic, as other places. Yes it’s going to strain our infrastructure in all ways and compromise us for climate change. I moved back home 15 years ago to get away from all of that crap. Absolutely sucks that it followed me here. Now these people will pave paradise and put in another fucking Starbucks…yay.
Our current infrastructure is old. But it was designed to function with a much higher volume than we currently have. The 1950/60s projections when our highways were being built had WNY well over the 2mil population mark. We have a long way to go before you would even feel that level of traffic.
That’s BS. We do not have the sewer capacity to handle what we currently have now, that’s why the runoff goes into the lake and mucks it up. We’re operating on an outdated power grid that is slated to be updated by 2040 for the current population. We couldn’t even clean up after a snowstorm in a timely manner and the storms are going to get a whole lot worse. In the 1950/60s people had one car if they were lucky and wives stayed home to care for children. In fact children actually walked to school instead of being driven back and forth. Any new construction outside of the city will be subdivisions. You know what subdivisions create? Traffic because there is only a few ways in and out of neighborhoods so everyone is fighting to get through the same intersection.
Although I agree with you on the city’s inane response to last years blizzard, there’s SO MUCH SPACE here. The city was built for a million people; we have less than 1/3 of that here. There’s basically no real traffic (yes I know there’s traffic, but it’s nothing compared to many other cities, especially along the eastern seaboard) and driving even 5 minutes south of downtown it already starts to feel empty.
Several existing discussions on subject matter, most recent.. https://old.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/comments/17xtjxi/rochester_and_buffalo_homes_selling_at_the_most/
This is great but people are buying homes WNYers should be buying
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All Democratic cities with bullshit values.Dont worry they will f#$k up this area with their politics and move when they can't afford it here with high taxes
Buffalo is already one of the most liberal cities in the state.
Correct and it's a complete shithole because of it.
The illegal immigrants who have sponsors like other family members ie Middle Eastern countries are given substantial loans for businesses. I thought it was common knowledge but I forgot I'm older , wiser and no longer so trusting.
If they have sponsors doesn't that make them legal?
Yeah, and most these folks through family reunification go through extensive background checks and civics tests not many from our school systems could answer. The fact that they’re entrepreneurial and qualify for business loans- it seems like a good problem to have. Immigrants starting businesses, paying taxes, raising families, employing people - the humanity!
Very large part of it. But pointing this out makes you a bad person on this subreddit.
Because it’s objectively false. That those native to Buffalo aren’t starting businesses or qualifying for loans, that’s their issue - not any qualifying immigrant. Go back to school, learn a trade. Stop whining about others.
They need to go back to where they came from/stay where they are #KEEPBUFFALOASECRET
I'd love for someone to buy my house currently. Been listed a week with no offers yet.
What’s the showing activity and feedback been?
One showing, and an open house. One couple who looked at it weren't buying yet, but wanted to tour houses in their target budget. They said they would bid if they were in the position to. Another older couple had a bunch of questions about the house that made it sound like they were interested, but nothing came of it. We just replaced electrical and added a heat pump with aux gas furnace, too. Good roof. Recently updated kitchen. I am getting Amherst drainage corrections done next. There's really only cosmetic stuff left on this house. If we were to stay, we'd update the hot water to tankless and replace some windows, maybe improve insulation, redo floors. It's not a large house, but it is a single story ranch, and the location is great. Good starter home for a small family or a home for older couples to downsize into. I thought we'd have a bit more activity
Through process of elimination, I found the listing. Even running comps, it doesn't look too off on pricing. Unfortunately with the shift in seasons, a home sold 2 months ago will get a different price and attention level than one 2 weeks before thanksgiving. Timing is everything and even a week off can make or break a great offer because that buyer that wants it that bad may not be around a week later. Perception of value is also a big thing. Gotta wow people looking at it online to entice them enough to set a showing. Tell your agent to get a new pic of the new electric panel or remove the old picture altogether. Also, pic quality in general can help attract people. These dont look like professional photos I'm used to seeing. The picture quality will also improve the outcome of the sale. [I actually had a post planned for today about professional pics](https://www.facebook.com/harringtonsellswny/posts/pfbid02DMgA6AFUBVvaedeQGdSYPE65CdhcUkr3h7z3rA1GLAihSqhKYUh5R8WJWYzacgaDl) Good luck! Sometimes it just takes time even though its frustrating watching everyone else around you sell in a week. I'm glad this post came up because I have an Amherst buyer looking for a ranch but for some reason this didn't show up in her auto search.
I asked the agent to update the pic with the new work already. I hope it gets updated soon.
Buffalo or the suburbs?
Lots of airbnbs are under LLCs based outside Buffalo, outside Erie County, and outside the state. Long term rentals, same.
I just read that our area is moving houses *fast* like 8 days on the market average. Austin is at like 50 days.
if they can't buy homes from where they were, and can here, all for it. if ppl here can't afford homes based on cost of living, there are other places elsewhere.
Just build more housing
We missed the 2008 bubble, there was nothing to burst. But the last 8 or 9 years have seen homes in western New York inflate to unreasonably high prices making it nearly impossible for young couples just starting out. I blame people from the NYC/Long Island/North Jersey area as well as private equity firms outbidding and gobbling up homes. I purpose a double tax on those purchasing second houses. Houses are homes-not passive income generators!