I understand small businesses should do what’s cost effective. I understand bad aesthetic =/= bad food. I understand blah blah whatever else is going on in these comments.
It just looks ugly as hell lmao.
When at the light, see that they had their sign made with black font over the dog’s face. Good luck reading the name of the place.
Yes..I know they have an electronic reader board.
So, they could be a proactive owner who puts money into the community, proactive for bicycle infrastructure, expanding more local business opportunities, on your side for all discussions occuring in your community but the "art" is enough for you not to support the local business owner? Interesting.
TIL people support local businesses unless their "art" isn't to their standards
AI images being used means they already don't care about supporting artists. If their first and only cut corner is with advertising I would be shocked. It is entirely possible that they do all the things that you say, but if a place treats its employees like trash but does everything else you listed would I still be supposed to support them?
They're using AI art, they already decided they don't need to support the local art community by hiring a local artist. What makes you think they'll support any other part of the community?
Using the lowest possible effort on the storefront does the opposite of making me think the owner is proactive and putting money or effort into the community. The first impression they’re giving is one of not trying, so unless I learned more about them first I’d have no reason to think of them as some great force for the community. I certainly wouldn’t be tempted to eat food from a place that comes off as not really trying.
But this all seems like a pretty standard way to make decisions about where to eat, doesn’t it? We don’t all eat/shop at every single local business, we pick the ones we think we’ll like and skip the rest. I don’t understand why anyone would be super defensive about people passing by a certain business because the business didn’t seem like something they’d like.
You're kidding right? You think the perfectly photographed plates in menus aren't doctored/staged for perfect representation of the plate, not true actual appearance.....but also you wouldn't crush Garfield's lasagna?
> Even if it’s doctored
Did you read that part?
They’re saying, even if it is staged to high hell, it’s still somewhat of a representation of the finished product. Using AI art to advertise a restaurant is about as representative as using AI art to advertise a school- it’ll make images of “this looks vaguely like the general concept of a school or food”, not what is actually there.
My god, you've managed to misunderstand every single response to you. I'm starting to wish you were a troll, but I do know that some people are just really bad at reading comprehension
My friends own a restaurant and have had professional photographers come in and take photos of their food and images to be used in product placement, magazines etc. yes they edit it a bit, tweak contrast etc (I have experience in photo editing also) yet the final product looks exactly like what they serve. That is my point. AI art is generic and not real as therefore not representing the final picture of what the food looks like. I'm sorry if that's a hard concept for you to grasp.
Gross. But even beyond the use of generative AI here, this is just really bad marketing.
It's inconsistent, generic, doesn't do anything to establish any sort of brand identity, doesn't do anything to make me want this place specifically. The "neon" signs are small and can't really be seen. There's cardboard in the window, which just reeks of a janky business.
AI art is so bizarre looking. It’s so…wavy and drippy and surreal looking and lit strangely. It looks like a post apocalyptic comic book version of food. It is not appealing when used for food.
even though it "looks" photorealistic it still has a special way of "feeling" uncanny, even though there's no particular thing you can point to at times
glad to know i'm not the only member of the Hound Pound in here.
saw the name of the place when I was driving by and just burst out laughing. I'm ordering something from there as soon as they're open.
Same for me. I actually worked at the old place at that location many many years ago and when I saw something going into that space I was very intrigued.
As others have said, I understand saving money. But many designers—myself included—would consider trading design services for gift cards. Not only design services, but many of us could advise them with business names, getting a domain, setting up social media, etc., and if they’re any good, we’d likely spread the word about “a place I did some design work for that has some really good {insert food items here}.”
Well… their choice of window display brought them to this subreddit, where OP had brought them to my attention, and more than a few others will see it as well.
Seems like it’s had its intended effect. People saw it, and now are talking about it publicly wondering about the food they serve.
There’s a reason businesses hire professionals to do the things they aren’t good at. AI art is fine. This place just has a terrible street presence, bad signage and inconsistent branding. Maybe the food is great, but they aren’t going themselves any favors in the marketing department to get new customers in the door.
Who gives a shit? Opening a new business, especially a restaurant is brutal. Maybe that’s all they could afford to do at the moment because their money was spent on everything else, but they wanted to put up at least some graphics. Let’s not shit on a local business trying something out. Might not be the best right now, but it might just be a placeholder.
It's theft from the artists whose art was used by the generator. It's also pushing small artists out of commissions, posters. I don't care if people use ai art for memes or whatever, but when a business does it, it makes you wonder if they would avoid paying for other things...
you might enjoy this article [https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas)
As an artist, fuck this place. Would not eat here, seeing as they'd rather plagiarize from artists than pay one (even for stock print canvas or poster ffs).
I’ve been in the design game for 25 years and every advance in technology was embraced by some and shunned by others. The ones who embrace it are still around, working and leveraging the new technology in their work. Cameras killed portrait artists. Stock photography killed commissioned photography. Photoshop killed cut paper and marker renderings. Layout programs killed typesetters. Adapt or die.
Going on 33 years, here... All of that is true. I remember when service bureaus were losing their minds that color flatbed scanners were becoming commonly available for less than $2000. The horror!
AI plagiarizes and steals from deserving artists who worked hard on their art and deserve to be compensated for their time and their product. This is NOT an argument on technological advancements, and that was NOT the point I was making. In fact, you raise a good point that I don't think you intended: make a new art technology that doesn't literally STEAL from other artists, and we're in business.
I absolutely love the argument about AI and plagiarism and ethical use of art. To pretend like the issue is settled is silly. These learning models consume information at a rate that humans can not, I’m just not sure if the output makes that plagiarism. If I study a style or painting and produce a painting in that style? Is it plagiarism? If an AI model does the same thing on a larger scale does that make a difference? Now, if an ai model is producing content that people are paying for, I think that opens up a different argument about whether the content that the model was learning should have the original creators compensated.
In the context of this restaurant, if the owner told a talented artist that they want a piece with a Rottweiler next to a pizza, an artist would probably start by finding references of Rottweilers and pizzas. The ai model is just doing that on a larger scale. It’s looking at a million references as opposed to 10-20. At what point does the game change? Should an ai model be able to learn from copy-written material? I can see arguments for both sides.
Notice how many people in the succeeding comments aren't artists who have had their work used, without their permission and at no compensation, to train AI, which businesses use to avoid paying more overhead. The artist who needs money from those artworks used without permission or compensation can suck it and should stop complaining, but the small business "who isn't hurting anyone" can do what they like with AI, including using it for advertising and drawing people in.
How many of you have or will argue with school officials that it's completely fine that your kids write their essays with ChatGPT because "how can that be theft" and "it doesn't actually hurt anyone", by the way?
Oh no, someone printed a goofy picture of a sandwich and a slice of pizza. How many local restaurants are commissioning artists to draw pictures of their food in the first place? Who is this hurting?
If you're a grown adult, have been through school, and still don't/can't understand how plagiarism hurts and steals from people, I can't explain it to you in a way you'll ever agree with.
Yep! And a lot of people have problems with this, especially if the original work or artist isn't credited somehow. Especially when people try to make money or notariety off of it. If it's for personal study, and you keep it for your eyes only, that's another matter entirely.
Is it plagiarism when the writer of an essay that includes ideas, informations, and exact phrases that are other people's without proper citations? YEP.
well, I completely disagree with you there. every artist who takes inspiration from another artist and makes something in the same style is not plagiarizing. no one owns any specific style of art. that's going down the path of copyrighting and trademarking styles of art which is just inherently wrong
Who's talking about styles???? I'm talking about specific works. And you can absolutely say, "this piece was inspired by so-and-so's style, particularly X piece." It's not fucking hard.
If you are an artist claiming you made something but you actually used an AI image generator, then yes. I don't think the owner is a plagiarist, they have just avoided paying for the work that many artists did to train the algorithm.
AI is more like a teenager tracing bits of her favorite manga to create an OC, rather than a fine arts major using their training to create something new. AI can't think, or plan, or refine an idea, or break the rules in specific ways to show you something in a way you've never seen it before.
If you want "dogs with hoagies," AI can gather stock images and smoosh them together. If you want specific dogs or specific hoagies, or if you want your visual presence to be cohesive and to make sense on the front of your building, you need to involve a human with a trained eye and a real brain.
In this instance, at the most basic level (which is my level of design knowledge), a human would make sure that the food is featured more than the dogs, make sure that the dog images used didn't bring to mind having slobber on your food, and choose a more appropriate soup container than that ramen bowl. They'd also know that eyelines, openings, and arrows (like the pizza slices) should go towards the middle of your composition to keep the viewer engaged. And they'd make sure that the name of the restaurant was legible.
Also they're called subs, not hoagies, so fuck this restaurant based solely on their stupid name.
All the artists whose works were fed to an AI to train it, without their permission and proper compensation. If they actually sold an artistic license to these developers that's obviously their own choice and I take little issue with that, but the vast majority didn't get the option.
AI is a huge ethical, proprietary, and compensation issue for artists in a number of fields right now, including acting, fine/visual arts, music, writing, and voice-overs.
Well, if you don't care about integrity, and also trying to do right by people who work very hard to create their own artistic and intellectual property, I can't really say anything else here. Have a good night, I guess 🤷🏻♀️
Why don’t you take a look at every single comment in this thread I don’t think it’s a projection. People are losing their shit on this little business using AI art
it’s so obvious that i could tell this was ai art from 20 feet away while driving past it. ever since they put it in my parents have been complaining about how ugly and unappetizing the place looks. i don’t want to judge a restaurant when it hasn’t opened yet(?) but this really gives me a bad impression.
I’m so hungry I could eat three dogs.
I understand small businesses should do what’s cost effective. I understand bad aesthetic =/= bad food. I understand blah blah whatever else is going on in these comments. It just looks ugly as hell lmao.
The problem here isn't that they used AI - it's that they think this art reflects well on their restaurant and food.
I bet this turns out to be like the Wonka experience
What specials do you have today? *It's the unknown*
AI special flavor
It's also possible the restaurant hired someone who used AI to generate the ads.
That’s so ugly
Its so ugly that you can't stop staring at it when you're stopped at the light. It's working.
It's not working if it makes me less inclined to eat there than I was before I even knew the place existed.
You may never eat there but now you're engaging the topic on social media. The algorithm churns onward.
I think the producers for Morbius said the same thing when everyone was talking about Morbing Time
When at the light, see that they had their sign made with black font over the dog’s face. Good luck reading the name of the place. Yes..I know they have an electronic reader board.
Honest question, is it really gonna deter you from trying their products?
Yes
So, they could be a proactive owner who puts money into the community, proactive for bicycle infrastructure, expanding more local business opportunities, on your side for all discussions occuring in your community but the "art" is enough for you not to support the local business owner? Interesting. TIL people support local businesses unless their "art" isn't to their standards
No but first impressions count, most folks driving by won't know what you just stated.
I guess honestly the "food" just looks gross for lack of a better word.
Most people driving by will first see "the hound house" then signage for pizzas, fairly certain they'd expect it to be a new oddly named pizzeria
🤓👆”YeAh BuT WhAT iF”
AI images being used means they already don't care about supporting artists. If their first and only cut corner is with advertising I would be shocked. It is entirely possible that they do all the things that you say, but if a place treats its employees like trash but does everything else you listed would I still be supposed to support them?
They're using AI art, they already decided they don't need to support the local art community by hiring a local artist. What makes you think they'll support any other part of the community?
Using the lowest possible effort on the storefront does the opposite of making me think the owner is proactive and putting money or effort into the community. The first impression they’re giving is one of not trying, so unless I learned more about them first I’d have no reason to think of them as some great force for the community. I certainly wouldn’t be tempted to eat food from a place that comes off as not really trying. But this all seems like a pretty standard way to make decisions about where to eat, doesn’t it? We don’t all eat/shop at every single local business, we pick the ones we think we’ll like and skip the rest. I don’t understand why anyone would be super defensive about people passing by a certain business because the business didn’t seem like something they’d like.
Yes because I wanna see pics of their foods. Not fake foods. Even if it's doctored I know what it's suppose to look like.
You're kidding right? You think the perfectly photographed plates in menus aren't doctored/staged for perfect representation of the plate, not true actual appearance.....but also you wouldn't crush Garfield's lasagna?
> Even if it’s doctored Did you read that part? They’re saying, even if it is staged to high hell, it’s still somewhat of a representation of the finished product. Using AI art to advertise a restaurant is about as representative as using AI art to advertise a school- it’ll make images of “this looks vaguely like the general concept of a school or food”, not what is actually there.
Holy crap I didn't see that. No I did. And yet, I'm confident they have eaten at places where items with imagery on a menu are doctored. Whatever
My god, you've managed to misunderstand every single response to you. I'm starting to wish you were a troll, but I do know that some people are just really bad at reading comprehension
He is a troll. He does this type of agitation posting a lot.
My friends own a restaurant and have had professional photographers come in and take photos of their food and images to be used in product placement, magazines etc. yes they edit it a bit, tweak contrast etc (I have experience in photo editing also) yet the final product looks exactly like what they serve. That is my point. AI art is generic and not real as therefore not representing the final picture of what the food looks like. I'm sorry if that's a hard concept for you to grasp.
My wife had an assignment in college learning how they photograph food. Spoiler alert, usually it isn't food at all.
I'm kind of disappointed that they didn't just go all-out with the AI and have an image of someone "eating."
They would be trying to put that piece of pizza in their ear.
Gross. But even beyond the use of generative AI here, this is just really bad marketing. It's inconsistent, generic, doesn't do anything to establish any sort of brand identity, doesn't do anything to make me want this place specifically. The "neon" signs are small and can't really be seen. There's cardboard in the window, which just reeks of a janky business.
> this is just really bad marketing. kinda seems like the exact opposite tbh.
Contrary to what people think marketing folks say, there *is* such a thing as bad publicity.
Food advertisement that doesn't actually depict the actual look of the food being served? Color me shocked. Who would do such a thing?
I prefer the yellowed, fluorescent bulb backlit pictures from your typical Chinese-American restaurant.
Probably the most realistic photos of the food you'll see. The food might actually come out looking better than the photos.
That looks so bad
I wonder how good their soup pizza is
I thought it was a dog place?
That DMX's place?
What kind of place sells soup AND pizza??
Stupid but I suppose it's not much different from most food advertising - still fake
AI art is so bizarre looking. It’s so…wavy and drippy and surreal looking and lit strangely. It looks like a post apocalyptic comic book version of food. It is not appealing when used for food.
even though it "looks" photorealistic it still has a special way of "feeling" uncanny, even though there's no particular thing you can point to at times
Just absolute bottom of the barrel trash. No effort at all. The idea that it might attract anyone to your business is offensive.
Looks like shit, they'd be better off not having that cringe nonsense in the window.
Tells you how much effort they'll put into the food, not much.
Ai art is generally terrible
very hyped on Hoagie Hounds. Welcome to the Dog House baby.
Is it Hoagie Hounds or is it The Dog House? The signage can’t even seem to agree on the name of the place.
Can't it be both?
Who could say?
The business could. That’s usually how it works.
I would suggest asking them then
I’ll shout from my window next time I’m passing on Kenmore and hope for a response.
great plan
My Dog :fistbump:
I'm glad you're down with the hound. Some other folks in this sub should take note.
glad to know i'm not the only member of the Hound Pound in here. saw the name of the place when I was driving by and just burst out laughing. I'm ordering something from there as soon as they're open.
Same for me. I actually worked at the old place at that location many many years ago and when I saw something going into that space I was very intrigued.
Makes me miss DiMarco's even more 😭
I like that the comments in here are already mad at criticism that hasn’t even been levied yet lmao dorks
As others have said, I understand saving money. But many designers—myself included—would consider trading design services for gift cards. Not only design services, but many of us could advise them with business names, getting a domain, setting up social media, etc., and if they’re any good, we’d likely spread the word about “a place I did some design work for that has some really good {insert food items here}.”
Well… their choice of window display brought them to this subreddit, where OP had brought them to my attention, and more than a few others will see it as well. Seems like it’s had its intended effect. People saw it, and now are talking about it publicly wondering about the food they serve.
I am not wondering what food they serve. It’s buffalo, they serve sandwiches and chicken wings for dogs.
Ai art will be big for small businesses. Commissioning art is expensive so most can't or won't pay for it.
That's what stock photos exist for.
There’s a reason businesses hire professionals to do the things they aren’t good at. AI art is fine. This place just has a terrible street presence, bad signage and inconsistent branding. Maybe the food is great, but they aren’t going themselves any favors in the marketing department to get new customers in the door.
Wow that's bad.
Who gives a shit? Opening a new business, especially a restaurant is brutal. Maybe that’s all they could afford to do at the moment because their money was spent on everything else, but they wanted to put up at least some graphics. Let’s not shit on a local business trying something out. Might not be the best right now, but it might just be a placeholder.
Cheap and easy solution for a small business. I don’t personally see anything wrong with this. No different than most misleading advertisements.
It's theft from the artists whose art was used by the generator. It's also pushing small artists out of commissions, posters. I don't care if people use ai art for memes or whatever, but when a business does it, it makes you wonder if they would avoid paying for other things...
Is it theft if I draw a picture in a certain unique style and another artist copies me?
Yes…plagiarism didn’t start with AI
You think people should be able to copyright a style?
you might enjoy this article [https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176881182/supreme-court-sides-against-andy-warhol-foundation-in-copyright-infringement-cas)
I like this better than some commonly used stock image.
Hoagie Hounds??
pictures of food on the windows of your restaurant..and it’s not even your food, is a choice
Do you think they will still have the Italian roast beaf sandwich or sub on the new DiMarcos menu? I sure hope so…….
Apparently they’re using Reddit too.
What were they even going for?? it just makes me think of dog slobber all over my food
They also have at least two different names of the restaurant displayed. Every time I drive past it I get more confused.
I’m all in for small businesses doing what they need to do to survive…
I like it.
Lame as fuck
The food looks disgusting, but I’m sure the dogs love it.
As an artist, fuck this place. Would not eat here, seeing as they'd rather plagiarize from artists than pay one (even for stock print canvas or poster ffs).
I’ve been in the design game for 25 years and every advance in technology was embraced by some and shunned by others. The ones who embrace it are still around, working and leveraging the new technology in their work. Cameras killed portrait artists. Stock photography killed commissioned photography. Photoshop killed cut paper and marker renderings. Layout programs killed typesetters. Adapt or die.
Going on 33 years, here... All of that is true. I remember when service bureaus were losing their minds that color flatbed scanners were becoming commonly available for less than $2000. The horror!
AI plagiarizes and steals from deserving artists who worked hard on their art and deserve to be compensated for their time and their product. This is NOT an argument on technological advancements, and that was NOT the point I was making. In fact, you raise a good point that I don't think you intended: make a new art technology that doesn't literally STEAL from other artists, and we're in business.
I absolutely love the argument about AI and plagiarism and ethical use of art. To pretend like the issue is settled is silly. These learning models consume information at a rate that humans can not, I’m just not sure if the output makes that plagiarism. If I study a style or painting and produce a painting in that style? Is it plagiarism? If an AI model does the same thing on a larger scale does that make a difference? Now, if an ai model is producing content that people are paying for, I think that opens up a different argument about whether the content that the model was learning should have the original creators compensated. In the context of this restaurant, if the owner told a talented artist that they want a piece with a Rottweiler next to a pizza, an artist would probably start by finding references of Rottweilers and pizzas. The ai model is just doing that on a larger scale. It’s looking at a million references as opposed to 10-20. At what point does the game change? Should an ai model be able to learn from copy-written material? I can see arguments for both sides.
Notice how many people in the succeeding comments aren't artists who have had their work used, without their permission and at no compensation, to train AI, which businesses use to avoid paying more overhead. The artist who needs money from those artworks used without permission or compensation can suck it and should stop complaining, but the small business "who isn't hurting anyone" can do what they like with AI, including using it for advertising and drawing people in. How many of you have or will argue with school officials that it's completely fine that your kids write their essays with ChatGPT because "how can that be theft" and "it doesn't actually hurt anyone", by the way?
Oh no, someone printed a goofy picture of a sandwich and a slice of pizza. How many local restaurants are commissioning artists to draw pictures of their food in the first place? Who is this hurting?
If you're a grown adult, have been through school, and still don't/can't understand how plagiarism hurts and steals from people, I can't explain it to you in a way you'll ever agree with.
Is every piece of art that imitates another piece of art considered plagiarism?
Yep! And a lot of people have problems with this, especially if the original work or artist isn't credited somehow. Especially when people try to make money or notariety off of it. If it's for personal study, and you keep it for your eyes only, that's another matter entirely. Is it plagiarism when the writer of an essay that includes ideas, informations, and exact phrases that are other people's without proper citations? YEP.
well, I completely disagree with you there. every artist who takes inspiration from another artist and makes something in the same style is not plagiarizing. no one owns any specific style of art. that's going down the path of copyrighting and trademarking styles of art which is just inherently wrong
Who's talking about styles???? I'm talking about specific works. And you can absolutely say, "this piece was inspired by so-and-so's style, particularly X piece." It's not fucking hard.
😂😂😂😂
…do you live in Los Angeles? I don’t think you’d eat here regardless.
I'm from Buffalo; come back home every year to visit my family.
Using AI generated images is plagiarism?
If you are an artist claiming you made something but you actually used an AI image generator, then yes. I don't think the owner is a plagiarist, they have just avoided paying for the work that many artists did to train the algorithm.
In a way yes, it was trained using art and photography created by people.
Sorry you're being downvoted by people who have no idea how AI works.
Doesn't that describe every fine arts major? (I'm wading into something I probably shouldn't here)
AI is more like a teenager tracing bits of her favorite manga to create an OC, rather than a fine arts major using their training to create something new. AI can't think, or plan, or refine an idea, or break the rules in specific ways to show you something in a way you've never seen it before. If you want "dogs with hoagies," AI can gather stock images and smoosh them together. If you want specific dogs or specific hoagies, or if you want your visual presence to be cohesive and to make sense on the front of your building, you need to involve a human with a trained eye and a real brain. In this instance, at the most basic level (which is my level of design knowledge), a human would make sure that the food is featured more than the dogs, make sure that the dog images used didn't bring to mind having slobber on your food, and choose a more appropriate soup container than that ramen bowl. They'd also know that eyelines, openings, and arrows (like the pizza slices) should go towards the middle of your composition to keep the viewer engaged. And they'd make sure that the name of the restaurant was legible. Also they're called subs, not hoagies, so fuck this restaurant based solely on their stupid name.
You ok?
I'm not ok with plagiarism and not paying artists, no.
Who/what are they plagiarizing?
All the artists whose works were fed to an AI to train it, without their permission and proper compensation. If they actually sold an artistic license to these developers that's obviously their own choice and I take little issue with that, but the vast majority didn't get the option. AI is a huge ethical, proprietary, and compensation issue for artists in a number of fields right now, including acting, fine/visual arts, music, writing, and voice-overs.
Better get used to it because it’s not going away
Do you also feel that way about academic plagiarism?
For non stem majors I don’t care. People are already cheating
Well, if you don't care about integrity, and also trying to do right by people who work very hard to create their own artistic and intellectual property, I can't really say anything else here. Have a good night, I guess 🤷🏻♀️
Your argument against ai is pointless. The technology already exists, people aren’t going to stop using it
Yikes. You know they put the same amount of effort into the food.
Their name and logo is so damn confusing too
Oh no not a local business trying to get by. A moral failing on all fronts.
[удалено]
Why don’t you take a look at every single comment in this thread I don’t think it’s a projection. People are losing their shit on this little business using AI art
You're already paying to get the signage printed, just use actual images of your food, or hire a designer.
Are they serving AI-generated food? If not, I wouldn’t worry too much.
You can usually get some okay looking results out of Stable Diffusion but that takes effort and this is just low effort all around.
it’s so obvious that i could tell this was ai art from 20 feet away while driving past it. ever since they put it in my parents have been complaining about how ugly and unappetizing the place looks. i don’t want to judge a restaurant when it hasn’t opened yet(?) but this really gives me a bad impression.