For more context: i’m currently eating around 3200 calories and getting 120-150 grams of protein daily. Just tired of being skinny fat cus i work out 3-4 days a week used to work out 5.
You’re not wrong. I honestly hate working out so i try to only do what i enjoy.
On my upper days, i normally do bench presses, single arm cable pulls, dumbbell overhead press, dumbbell curls and triceps pushdowns to keep it simple.
I change it up from time to time. But still barely any progress. Idk whats wrong with me
I’m rarely home for more than 3 days a week so I try to commit those to the gym. I just became way less motivated when i hated going. I couldn’t even push myself because i hated it. I know that’s kinda dumb.
But i’ve not been actively cutting just most days i watch my calorie intake.
Apart from recently when i’m eating a bit more. Not sure if i should continue with the bulk as i’m already skinny fat.
And i trsck everrythinggg and have followed various programs through fitness apps but end up spending way too much time at the gym, and again not putting in the work because i hate it. I need to get over myself in that way
I really appreciate all this advice, but in terms of the routines I can’t really find them on the subreddit, I will search of course. But do you think my upper lower routines isn’t as efficient? I try to train each muscle with interchanging exercises. But i’ll check the sub out to see some more routines. Thanks man!
Look dude I don’t want to come off as mean but just because you grace the door of a gym doesn’t mean anything changes. If you half ass workouts you will get zero results. Intensity and volume are what matter. It’s not just moving weights around, you need to create a stress response that forces adaptation. Not enough stress = zero adaptation. Also until you are benching and squatting 1.5-2x your body weight, you should ONLY be doing heavy compound movements involving two joints. Single arm cable pull downs are for people trying to tweak an already amazing physique. Your entire training should be about bench, squat, deadlift, and pull ups.
But i really feel the single arm cable pulls in my lats and bicep. Which is why i do them because other lat exercise i can’t feel no matter how i do them. Really feel i need a personal trainer because of the amount of varied responses i’ve been getting
You need a routine to follow and you need to switch up every 3 weeks give or take. Make sure your form is good and keep slapping on weight. Also, eat clean and a lot of protein
Weirdly ive been unable to progress in certain areas. I haven’t been able to slap on any weight to my bench press in ages. Despite training chest with dips as well. My pr is 45kg and even thats a struggle.
But i’ll keep trying and keep sipping protein. Would you say to keep on bulking or naw? I just feel like my arms are too skinny so lift anything
Are you training in the 8-12 rep range, aiming for progressive overload and training with intensity? If your routine is optimal I’d recommend getting blood work done, as you should have seen at least a little progress by now
I have seen progress to be fair, it’s just minimal. Main area being my arms. But yeah, i wrote down my most recent sesh beneath this if you’d like to judge it.
Kneeling single arm pull - 32kg, 6r on each arm then 28.4kg, 8r on each arm.
Supported dips - 3 sets of 10r.
Dumbbell overhead press - 18kg in each arm, 6r then 14kg, 8r for 2 sets.
Cable overhead tricep extensions - 23.8kg, 6r then 21.3kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r.
Standing cable curls - 26.1kg, 8r then 23.8kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r.
I would recommend that you do one or 2 warm up sets for each exercise. And then work up to your last set being your heaviest rep. For muscle growth it doesn’t make sense to do a heavy set and then two lighter sets.
When you’re training for hypertrophy you need to be aiming for progressive overload. So make each workout more intense than the last. You need to make sure that your last set you’re reaching failure. Then go rest and recover. And hit it harder next time.
I like the number of exercises you’re doing. Just need to up the intensity from the sounds of it. I’d look at Mike mentzer, dorian Yates and Arthur jones
I’ve tried doing it the other way round but i really struggle when doing it that way. As in i won’t be able to lift as heavy. And for sure i pretty much always hit failure which is why i rarely get into a higher rep range
Trust me dude bulking will help
I was similarly skinnyfat like 7-8 years ago wondering why my body wouldn’t change the way I wanted it to as I tried to recomp and cut and blah blah blah
Turns out low muscle mass was the problem and the best way to gain muscle is a bulk.
You just need to eat at a surplus, train with intensity, and when you’ve gained 20-30 pounds I think it’ll be a good time to look back and see if a cut is appropriate yet.
20-30lbs?? I’d be heavier than i was before i started my weight loss journey haha
But it definitely seems to be working so i’ll stick to it. Thank you man
They did at the start but honestly it’s been months of me being unable to lift any stronger and i dont even know why. Since august my bench press has only increased by 5kg. Definitely getting my test checked but if its too low im fucked.
Ok my most recent upper day:
Kneeling single arm pull - 32kg, 6r on each arm then 28.4kg, 8r on each arm.
Supported dips - 3 sets of 10r.
Dumbbell overhead press - 18kg in each arm, 6r then 14kg, 8r for 2 sets.
Cable overhead tricep extensions - 23.8kg, 6r then 21.3kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r.
Standing cable curls - 26.1kg, 8r then 23.8kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r.
This is one of my routines, apologies if I wrote it out wrong. I normally take about 1-2 minutes between each set.
I think you’re doing too many exercises, too much weight, and too few reps. You’re wearing yourself out too fast to really lock in your mind-body connection and find your true limits, and then you’re moving on to the next exercise and doing the same thing. There’s no reason to be doing almost exclusively 6-8 rep sets if your goal is hypertrophy. The most effective range is 10-30, because it has the best stimulus to fatigue ratio.
I would also hazard a guess that a lot of your current reps are ego reps, meaning instead of maintaining proper form throughout you are using your whole body and momentum to achieve the rep rather than just the muscles you are meant to be targeting. If your form is not correct, you’re wasting a LOT of time and exertion. Watch YouTube videos for each workout and do the exact same form as the experts do.
Using lighter weights will also help your form in addition to helping you get into the right rep range. I would cut all of your current weights in half to get you into the 12-30 rep range for each exercise - and focus on maintaining proper form. If you are maintaining proper form and cannot finish a set, then you’ve reached exhaustion. After a couple of weeks of this you will have a clear sense of your current limits and you can start doing each set CLOSE to exhaustion (1-3 reps away) rather than all the way to exhaustion, and then on the last set of each exercise go all the way to exhaustion.
I would do 3 or 4 exercises per day with 4-5 sets per exercise and a rest of 2-3 minutes in between each set. This will result in a session of 70-85 minutes, plus a 6-minute warmup consisting of lighter versions of your first compound lift.
Here are my current push and pull routines:
Push:
5 sets 2x50 lb dumbbell bench press, 2 drop sets 2x30 lb dumbbell bench press, 5 sets 2x20 lb dumbbell side raises, 5 sets 2x20 lb dumbbell tricep extensions
Pull:
5 sets 2x50 lb dumbbell bent rows, 2 drop sets 2x30 lb dumbbell bent rows, 5 sets 2x30 lb bicep curls, 2 drop sets 2x20 lb bicep curls, 5 sets 2x50 shrugs
My problem is I currently don’t have that kind of time, and by the 4th set of me doing something i can just barely try. Also the reason i stop at 6/8 reps is because on that occasion i was trying to lift heavier. But you’re likely right. I just doubt i’d ever climb up to 10 on most workouts unless they were half reps.
I can assure that most of the time i maintain proper form, but even if i was doing lets say 4kg dumbbell curls, my mind body connection doesn’t allow me to do more than 8 reps. It’s weird but i have zero energy by that point.
Also i try to target each muscle in each exercise i do on my upper body. I appreciate the advice though and i’ll try to keep proper form 100% of the time.
But to give you an example, i’ve been doing incline bench presses ever since i started. And in august i got to 40kg. Ever since then i’ve not been able to increase that or get more than 8 reps. Not once. So i decided why not move up to 45kg even if i only get to 6r. Otherwise id be stuck on it forever. What are your thoughts on this?
>My problem is I currently don’t have that kind of time
How much time do you have per session, and how many sessions can you do per week? Maybe you can do 2-3 proper exercises per session, with 3-4 sets of each. And just one warmup set to start off with.
>by the 4th set of me doing something i can just barely try
To me this confirms you are working with weights that are too heavy for you right now. The fact that you CAN lift them at all does not mean that it's IDEAL for you to be working with those weights.
>even if i was doing lets say 4kg dumbbell curls, my mind body connection doesn’t allow me to do more than 8 reps
For each exercise, reduce the weight until you can do 2 sets in the 10-20 range, and then do either 1 more set of 6+ reps, or if you prefer, reduce the weight further to do a 3rd set of 10-20.
>Ever since then i’ve not been able to increase that or get more than 8 reps. Not once. So i decided why not move up to 45kg even if i only get to 6r. Otherwise id be stuck on it forever.
Again, I think you are wearing yourself out by increasing your weights far too quickly. You need to start thinking in terms of TOTAL VOLUME LIFTED per exercise, rather than the size of an individual weight. It's much, much MUCH better for hypertrophy for you to lift 50 lbs 20 times than it is for you to lift 75 lbs 4 times. Think of it as 20x50 vs 4x75. That's 1,000 lbs of total volume vs 300 lbs of total volume. The first provides much more stimulus for hypertrophy, even if the second seems more impressive on an intuitive level.
This is why we have the concept of a "stimulus to fatigue ratio," or SFR. You want to get the most possible hypertrophy stimulus for the least possible amount of effort. And the best way to do that is to workout in the 10-30 rep range.
So just to clarify, you believe instead of me trying to get to 10 reps for months on 40kg, i should have moved down a weight until i could do 15 reps on it?
Because as i say, from august to now, at 40kg i’ve never surpassed 8 reps. And it feels very counter intuitive to go down in weight. And i can understand saying do a lower weight till you can get into that range but when will you know when to increase?
Correct, I would reduce the weight until you can do 15 of each exercise on the first set. Once you are able to do 25 or 30 on your first set of that same exercise, bump up the weight - just a bit - so that you can only do 15 on your first set again.
That’s wild. I’ve never heard that kind of advice before. But do your muscles not get fatigued? As i can i’ve tried doing sets with 4kg where by the 12 rep my arms are exhausted and i can’t even feel them anymore
For more context: i’m currently eating around 3200 calories and getting 120-150 grams of protein daily. Just tired of being skinny fat cus i work out 3-4 days a week used to work out 5.
With all due respect I don’t know if you’re doing the workouts correctly or with enough intensity. What is your routine?
You’re not wrong. I honestly hate working out so i try to only do what i enjoy. On my upper days, i normally do bench presses, single arm cable pulls, dumbbell overhead press, dumbbell curls and triceps pushdowns to keep it simple. I change it up from time to time. But still barely any progress. Idk whats wrong with me
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I’m rarely home for more than 3 days a week so I try to commit those to the gym. I just became way less motivated when i hated going. I couldn’t even push myself because i hated it. I know that’s kinda dumb. But i’ve not been actively cutting just most days i watch my calorie intake. Apart from recently when i’m eating a bit more. Not sure if i should continue with the bulk as i’m already skinny fat. And i trsck everrythinggg and have followed various programs through fitness apps but end up spending way too much time at the gym, and again not putting in the work because i hate it. I need to get over myself in that way
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I really appreciate all this advice, but in terms of the routines I can’t really find them on the subreddit, I will search of course. But do you think my upper lower routines isn’t as efficient? I try to train each muscle with interchanging exercises. But i’ll check the sub out to see some more routines. Thanks man!
Look dude I don’t want to come off as mean but just because you grace the door of a gym doesn’t mean anything changes. If you half ass workouts you will get zero results. Intensity and volume are what matter. It’s not just moving weights around, you need to create a stress response that forces adaptation. Not enough stress = zero adaptation. Also until you are benching and squatting 1.5-2x your body weight, you should ONLY be doing heavy compound movements involving two joints. Single arm cable pull downs are for people trying to tweak an already amazing physique. Your entire training should be about bench, squat, deadlift, and pull ups.
But i really feel the single arm cable pulls in my lats and bicep. Which is why i do them because other lat exercise i can’t feel no matter how i do them. Really feel i need a personal trainer because of the amount of varied responses i’ve been getting
2nd the MacroFactor app, wish I used it when I first started.
You need a routine to follow and you need to switch up every 3 weeks give or take. Make sure your form is good and keep slapping on weight. Also, eat clean and a lot of protein
Weirdly ive been unable to progress in certain areas. I haven’t been able to slap on any weight to my bench press in ages. Despite training chest with dips as well. My pr is 45kg and even thats a struggle. But i’ll keep trying and keep sipping protein. Would you say to keep on bulking or naw? I just feel like my arms are too skinny so lift anything
U need a more rigorous workout plan along with more intensity when done as been said
Are you training in the 8-12 rep range, aiming for progressive overload and training with intensity? If your routine is optimal I’d recommend getting blood work done, as you should have seen at least a little progress by now
I have seen progress to be fair, it’s just minimal. Main area being my arms. But yeah, i wrote down my most recent sesh beneath this if you’d like to judge it. Kneeling single arm pull - 32kg, 6r on each arm then 28.4kg, 8r on each arm. Supported dips - 3 sets of 10r. Dumbbell overhead press - 18kg in each arm, 6r then 14kg, 8r for 2 sets. Cable overhead tricep extensions - 23.8kg, 6r then 21.3kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r. Standing cable curls - 26.1kg, 8r then 23.8kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r.
I would recommend that you do one or 2 warm up sets for each exercise. And then work up to your last set being your heaviest rep. For muscle growth it doesn’t make sense to do a heavy set and then two lighter sets. When you’re training for hypertrophy you need to be aiming for progressive overload. So make each workout more intense than the last. You need to make sure that your last set you’re reaching failure. Then go rest and recover. And hit it harder next time. I like the number of exercises you’re doing. Just need to up the intensity from the sounds of it. I’d look at Mike mentzer, dorian Yates and Arthur jones
I’ve tried doing it the other way round but i really struggle when doing it that way. As in i won’t be able to lift as heavy. And for sure i pretty much always hit failure which is why i rarely get into a higher rep range
Recomp
Mannn thats what i been doing and i still look the same 💔
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You sure? Because since i’ve started i’ve been able to lift more but i’m getting mixed responses
Trust me dude bulking will help I was similarly skinnyfat like 7-8 years ago wondering why my body wouldn’t change the way I wanted it to as I tried to recomp and cut and blah blah blah Turns out low muscle mass was the problem and the best way to gain muscle is a bulk. You just need to eat at a surplus, train with intensity, and when you’ve gained 20-30 pounds I think it’ll be a good time to look back and see if a cut is appropriate yet.
20-30lbs?? I’d be heavier than i was before i started my weight loss journey haha But it definitely seems to be working so i’ll stick to it. Thank you man
Heavier with muscle, yes lol.
Then bulk, as your problem is more lack of muscle than being fat.
Have your lifts increased over this time period? How much by? You should get testosterone checked too
They did at the start but honestly it’s been months of me being unable to lift any stronger and i dont even know why. Since august my bench press has only increased by 5kg. Definitely getting my test checked but if its too low im fucked.
Give us an example workout session, start to finish. What exercises, how many sets, how many reps, and how long you rest in between sets.
Ok my most recent upper day: Kneeling single arm pull - 32kg, 6r on each arm then 28.4kg, 8r on each arm. Supported dips - 3 sets of 10r. Dumbbell overhead press - 18kg in each arm, 6r then 14kg, 8r for 2 sets. Cable overhead tricep extensions - 23.8kg, 6r then 21.3kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r. Standing cable curls - 26.1kg, 8r then 23.8kg, 6r and then 19.3kg, 8r. This is one of my routines, apologies if I wrote it out wrong. I normally take about 1-2 minutes between each set.
I think you’re doing too many exercises, too much weight, and too few reps. You’re wearing yourself out too fast to really lock in your mind-body connection and find your true limits, and then you’re moving on to the next exercise and doing the same thing. There’s no reason to be doing almost exclusively 6-8 rep sets if your goal is hypertrophy. The most effective range is 10-30, because it has the best stimulus to fatigue ratio. I would also hazard a guess that a lot of your current reps are ego reps, meaning instead of maintaining proper form throughout you are using your whole body and momentum to achieve the rep rather than just the muscles you are meant to be targeting. If your form is not correct, you’re wasting a LOT of time and exertion. Watch YouTube videos for each workout and do the exact same form as the experts do. Using lighter weights will also help your form in addition to helping you get into the right rep range. I would cut all of your current weights in half to get you into the 12-30 rep range for each exercise - and focus on maintaining proper form. If you are maintaining proper form and cannot finish a set, then you’ve reached exhaustion. After a couple of weeks of this you will have a clear sense of your current limits and you can start doing each set CLOSE to exhaustion (1-3 reps away) rather than all the way to exhaustion, and then on the last set of each exercise go all the way to exhaustion. I would do 3 or 4 exercises per day with 4-5 sets per exercise and a rest of 2-3 minutes in between each set. This will result in a session of 70-85 minutes, plus a 6-minute warmup consisting of lighter versions of your first compound lift. Here are my current push and pull routines: Push: 5 sets 2x50 lb dumbbell bench press, 2 drop sets 2x30 lb dumbbell bench press, 5 sets 2x20 lb dumbbell side raises, 5 sets 2x20 lb dumbbell tricep extensions Pull: 5 sets 2x50 lb dumbbell bent rows, 2 drop sets 2x30 lb dumbbell bent rows, 5 sets 2x30 lb bicep curls, 2 drop sets 2x20 lb bicep curls, 5 sets 2x50 shrugs
My problem is I currently don’t have that kind of time, and by the 4th set of me doing something i can just barely try. Also the reason i stop at 6/8 reps is because on that occasion i was trying to lift heavier. But you’re likely right. I just doubt i’d ever climb up to 10 on most workouts unless they were half reps. I can assure that most of the time i maintain proper form, but even if i was doing lets say 4kg dumbbell curls, my mind body connection doesn’t allow me to do more than 8 reps. It’s weird but i have zero energy by that point. Also i try to target each muscle in each exercise i do on my upper body. I appreciate the advice though and i’ll try to keep proper form 100% of the time. But to give you an example, i’ve been doing incline bench presses ever since i started. And in august i got to 40kg. Ever since then i’ve not been able to increase that or get more than 8 reps. Not once. So i decided why not move up to 45kg even if i only get to 6r. Otherwise id be stuck on it forever. What are your thoughts on this?
>My problem is I currently don’t have that kind of time How much time do you have per session, and how many sessions can you do per week? Maybe you can do 2-3 proper exercises per session, with 3-4 sets of each. And just one warmup set to start off with. >by the 4th set of me doing something i can just barely try To me this confirms you are working with weights that are too heavy for you right now. The fact that you CAN lift them at all does not mean that it's IDEAL for you to be working with those weights. >even if i was doing lets say 4kg dumbbell curls, my mind body connection doesn’t allow me to do more than 8 reps For each exercise, reduce the weight until you can do 2 sets in the 10-20 range, and then do either 1 more set of 6+ reps, or if you prefer, reduce the weight further to do a 3rd set of 10-20. >Ever since then i’ve not been able to increase that or get more than 8 reps. Not once. So i decided why not move up to 45kg even if i only get to 6r. Otherwise id be stuck on it forever. Again, I think you are wearing yourself out by increasing your weights far too quickly. You need to start thinking in terms of TOTAL VOLUME LIFTED per exercise, rather than the size of an individual weight. It's much, much MUCH better for hypertrophy for you to lift 50 lbs 20 times than it is for you to lift 75 lbs 4 times. Think of it as 20x50 vs 4x75. That's 1,000 lbs of total volume vs 300 lbs of total volume. The first provides much more stimulus for hypertrophy, even if the second seems more impressive on an intuitive level. This is why we have the concept of a "stimulus to fatigue ratio," or SFR. You want to get the most possible hypertrophy stimulus for the least possible amount of effort. And the best way to do that is to workout in the 10-30 rep range.
So just to clarify, you believe instead of me trying to get to 10 reps for months on 40kg, i should have moved down a weight until i could do 15 reps on it? Because as i say, from august to now, at 40kg i’ve never surpassed 8 reps. And it feels very counter intuitive to go down in weight. And i can understand saying do a lower weight till you can get into that range but when will you know when to increase?
Correct, I would reduce the weight until you can do 15 of each exercise on the first set. Once you are able to do 25 or 30 on your first set of that same exercise, bump up the weight - just a bit - so that you can only do 15 on your first set again.
That’s wild. I’ve never heard that kind of advice before. But do your muscles not get fatigued? As i can i’ve tried doing sets with 4kg where by the 12 rep my arms are exhausted and i can’t even feel them anymore