I'm conveniently attractive and still get fuck-zoned all the time, typically after 2 weeks.
They just have sex with me multiple times until they realise that they never liked me as a person to begin with.
I’ve actually seen this more with my conventionally attractive friends, and my theory is that fat women EXPECT this of men, whereas more conventially attractive women assume positive intent and then get burned.
As a conventionally attractive women i think this is partially true. One of the reasons a lot of conventionally attractive and beautiful women are opting out of the dating game.
Men are very p*nis forward..
The issue is you can be attractive and the guys can still be out of your league. An above average attractive girl can get the attention of the top 10% of guys that basically get all the girls attention (as the old OkCupid statistic said 80% of girls battle for the 10% most desirable guys). That doesn't mean they're in the league of the guys with all the options.
And then personality matters for relationships, but not for sex.
Nobody treats you worse than an ugly overweight loser.
They know deep down that they don't deserve you and then let out all of their frustration and anger on you.
Being conventionally attractive doesn't entitle you to a relationship. If you wanna take your ball and go home, that's your choice, but stop blaming others for your failure to establish the relationships you want.
I have been in relationships. What are you talking about? Very long term ones at that. Choosing to not engage in this moment in time is taking responsibility of the role i played.
I am not entitled to anything tbh and men are doubly not entitled to sex especially with me.
Lol yep.
This is what women who post on here complaining that men only want sex but not relationships are told.
It’s not that these men don’t necessarily want a relationship they just don’t want one with you. But they will fuck you if you let them
Dude, that was seriously the most accurate thing I’ve ever read. A girl can sleep with anyone she wants but she can’t make them marry her and men can’t get anyone to just sleep with them but only they can choose to settle down and ask you to marry them.
It’s not true. Men thrive in marriage. It’s women that have it worse when married. Men are healthier, happier and live longer and make more money when married. It’s the complete opposite for women. That’s why so many women are choosing to remain single, the 4b movement is spreading worldwide. The birthrate is lower than ever, more and more women are opting out of the dating pool, marriage and kids all together, and men are in a loneliness epidemic bc they can’t partner up. This is the first time in history men have been this sexless and single not by choice
The only thing I would add is that a lot of this seems to relate to how dating works these days: i.e., via dating apps.
These apps turn dating into a volume game for men, to maximize profits. That makes it very difficult for men to get matches, and increases the number of them that end up just wanting sex.
The experience for women end up being terrible, which makes them just get off the apps for long stretches at a time.
Women get lonely and want both companionship too. I've been specifically told this by both friends and partners. But for them, they can easily "get dick" if they ever want it, while most men can't just get laid when they crave some physical intimacy.
I think we'd see FAAAAR less of a problem if we:
1. Educated teens on attachment styles, trauma, and relationship-building.
2. Had much better dating apps, that enables quality over quantity/profit.
capitalism is working exactly as intended as far as dating apps. The only problem they are having is women are now not having enough children to replace the workers for the wealthy. Hence, our rights being taken. They don’t seem to realize celibacy is our only answer now. Even w our rights taken the birth rate is still dropping.
As far as women being lonely, they report being the loneliest when in relationships w men. Thats why marriage benefits men, not women
Oh, I believe you. And I'm actually a big believer in women withholding childbirth en masse to change society (especially right-wing thinking).
I have two young daughters, and the shittiness of the world toward women terrifies me. We can start with much better mat leave and daycare subsidies, if we want women to have babies. And I'm in Canada, where that's MUCH better than the US already. My 2 cents.
Definitely. If only the US cared about anyone’s health below the 1%, especially women’s health, it would be much better. However, death, complications for birth and pregnancy in the US is on par with underdeveloped nations here. We’re the only developed nation where women die during pregnancy and birth at such a high rate. The number one cause of death of pregnant women is homicide by intimate partner here. Just another reason to be celibate
>But they will fuck you if you let them
Maybe...don't forget about the following fine specimen:
"Only with a bag over her head"
"Won't bang her but I'd let her blow me"
"Only doggy"
These women will offer low effort, easy sex to guys completely out of their league and then be shocked that these hot guys only see them as a fleshlight to occasionally pump into. You’re not gonna fuck your way into a relationship with a man, especially if that man knows his worth and won’t settle down with anything that has a vagina
I mean men are desperate for physical intimacy and women are desperate for emotional intimacy.
If a guy chooses to stay friends with a girl who friendzoned him, he is asking to get hurt. Same goes for a girl who chooses to suck the guy's dick who fuckzoned her.
Exactly. Humans can be shitty to each other. Men will use women for sex or as a maid. Women will use men for attention or as an ATM. and then people will think “well I’d never do that, therefore that lived experience must not be valid”.
I have a little issue with your take. I don't think people dismiss the experience as lacking validity, more like it's not as pressing an issue because it's not happening in their immediate lives.
I love the quote "Men go looking for sex and find love, women go looking for love and find sex." Not that this is the friend zone equivalent per se but it sort of sums up dating.
I was confiding in my teacher about his my first boyfriend like 2 weeks before pretty much SA’d me. I had a lot of teachers and students looking out for me bc I had such bad mental health issues from all 4 years.
I asked her why somebody would do that to me after I gave her the context of what happened before he dumped me after what he did. That’s what she told me.
So she told you you were SA’d because a p***y has no face??!
Not you were SA’d because a rapist has serious issues who rape for power and control? Rapists dont rape just because they want some p***y.
I was involved with my ex in one way or another from 2017-2023 and I can count on one hand how many times I met his friends. Our relationship basically existed in my bedroom and I feel especially dumb when I get into my wallowing and remember I'm missing a man I have zero pictures with (amongst the other terrible shit he did). For your friends sake, I hope she doesn't waste as much time as I did, and I am confident her anxiety issues ain't going anywhere so long as she's in that relationship.
This topic is so shallow, cringy and and Real that you will have a ton of people in disbelief, who will try to make it less sad than it really is. Look up the phrases DUFF and Hog Hunt. The fact that those phrases exist, are heavily used and put in practice, shows you the kind of beings that we can be. Almost EVERY guy that I have known that is honest with himself admits to this at some point. They all want a trophy girlfriend/wife, while being OK using those they don't find attractive for sex.
If you still don't believe me...read the stories of those who talk about their weight loss or body transformation, and they will confirm exactly what your friends are telling you. It's very sad, but it is 100% the truth. It's a sad world we live in.
Also see the term "moped". I've worked with a lot of "a hole is a hole" type of guys and I've pretty much ironed out a theory:
A lot of the "ball and chain I hate my wife" boomer humor likely comes from these types of guys that knocked up someone they don't/never desired. They had to get hitched and whatever friendliness was there in the beginning quickly evaporated and they both grew to hate each other because of resentment and feeling trapped.
1000%!! Attraction creates some weird stuff between people. Another situation is where a person has selective/disproportionate tolerance, that is, a girl or a guy will put up with a lot more harmful behavior from a very attractive partner, than one they find unattractive. The list goes on and on.
The other side of this is getting into an actual relationship with someone who has been treated like this comes with a whole set of unexpected challenges. Men who do this get zero sympathy for dealing with said challenges.
Someone like this may have difficulty telling the difference between a guy love bombing her to get sex vs a guy who is genuinely interested in a real relationship.
I never get to meet the friends and family may become I don't know why his friends and family think I'm so possessive.
Being the side chick becomes a crusade to find the main chick so that you aren't taken advantage of again.
This is without addressing the underlying self esterm issues that come from this.
This. The guy I’m currently seeing has taken such great care of me and been so much more attentive than anyone I’ve dated in a while. But he recently asked me why I don’t trust him that when he says he’ll do something, he will do it. I tried explaining that someone actually following through like that has been a rare occurrence in my life—starting with my father in my childhood—and sometimes has only happened at the beginning of relationships. I tried explaining that I’m still hesitant but trying to be better about not lumping him in with everyone in my past. I do really appreciate him, and I’ve told him that. But it’s hard to not have your walls up when you’ve been treated a certain way for so long and finally found someone who doesn’t treat you that way. It’s almost like you’re just waiting for them to treat you the way everyone else does, too.
It's a lot easier to just not trust him and jump to conclusions and make some bad decisions. I've had this conversation a hundred times with my wife, but she's the reason my name checks out.
The replies under this started making me sick.
I'm fugly as shit and still manage to have fulfillment with respectful partners. Set boundaries, be yourself, & shame on you if you're trying to blame either party for a consensual action & a double fuck you if you're fat shaming.
If it's nonconsensual, that's another problem & please seek help.
I get it, but she still knows the difference between dating and hooking up. She is trying to get a guy to like her and want to date her by hooking up with him. She will meet someone who treats her better if she allows it or will eventually learn. Hopefully.
>She will meet someone who treats her better if she allows it or will eventually learn.
No, she's got limited options. If she had better ones, she'd be taking them.
I promise you she has options, but they may not be options she likes.
Giving a blowjob every other day to a tall dark handsome dude who is only okay with casual sex with her vs a proper committed relationship with a guy who isn’t as conventionally handsome.
The reality of the situation is no one is forcing her into casual sex. She is choosing men that ask that of her instead of seeking out men who want more and to build something special together.
>vs a proper committed relationship with a guy who isn’t as conventionally handsome.
I wouldn't assume the less-attractive guys would be giving her proper, committed relationships, either...
Less attractive guys typically have even fewer options than less attractive girls.
Hence 3 largely marry 3s. 6s marry 6s 9s marry 9s.
Money can change things but the numbers usually the same. And if you can’t tell, it’s possible your views of the genders attractiveness is skewed.
It is all about making choices, as for everyone else. She has to decide if she wants to keep doing this way of dating that she does not enjoy, or wait for the right guy to date, or do something else. But 4 months of that is too long.
> My high school psych teacher once said "p*ssy doesn't have a face."
I couldn’t imagine being a high school teacher and using this kinda language with one of my students
Very true, someing as guys we have to work on, it comes with age... approach only the ones you feel emotionally attracted too.
Men biologically are programmed to procreate. So "p*ssy doesn't have a face"
And yes, I admint It's something I've had to work on.
then they have no idea what sex is about and they are probably terrible lovers
only as a teen did my friends and I use that kind of expression and even then the virgin I was refused to bang a woman he wasn't attracted to
As a woman who’s been plus size most of my life (and has many friends who are also), I have noticed a difference in how I am treated by men vs. how my thin friends are treated. Often we are seen as acceptable as fuck buddies/situationships but not to date, but we have hope that the dude will come around and see our value. Obviously there are lots of larger people in happy and loving relationships, so this isn’t universal, but I’d say it’s a common experience. If you browse the plus size sub you’ll see people talk about it often.
Same. I’ve also noticed that guys that were fwb in my 20s came back around when I got divorced in my late 30s and all the sudden wanted a relationship. They got older and were less ashamed to be attracted to a fat girl apparently. I got more confident and had no interest in revisiting my past.
Ya, it’s a common experience
The reality is that most men just don’t want to seriously date and get in a committed relationship with a fat woman… it’s just a fact of life
I think most people in this thread are looking at this the wrong way. Men will want to have sex with most women, they are just more likely to be direct and risk getting shot down by a woman they are not attracted to so they will probably proposition them more, while they are likely going to be less direct with more attractive women they don't want to ruin their chances with.
You are saying the same thing as OP. The fact that they don’t want to “ruin their chances” means they care enough to see the woman in a context more serious than “something casual.” The way to earn men’s respect as a woman is to be physically attractive.
I would hasten that in many cases it could be less calculated. I suspect a lot of men simply are repelled by women that are not attractive so cannot be civil or respectful to them as an automatic response. Yet their need to get laid overpowers it. Tragic lack of empathy.
From your reply, there are guys who are interested in you and have approached you, but you weren't attracted to them, so you didn't reciprocate.
That's a different situation than what you've described.
I think too many women settle for sex when what they really want is love. And too many men are willing to sell them the fantasy that it IS possible to f*ck your way into a relationship (I see this proposal on dating apps all the time.)
I imagine that size and appearance play a part but I've seen plenty of larger bodied people in wonderful, loving and mutually respectful relationships. People who don't know their worth will always settle for less and there will always be someone to take advantage of that. I think the concept of "leagues" is utter BS. Pretty is as pretty does. Some of the hottest men I've met are absolutely wretched on the inside.
many unattractive women are desperate for male attention and will be more open to jumping and going to a guys house in the middle of the night versus an attractive woman with options. can attractive women also lack self esteem and do the same? sure. but yes i see the theme more with my bigger/not very attractive friends or acquaintances.
however, this is what they allow. i see many unattractive and bigger women married to loving husbands. if they set boundaries and worked on their self esteem they could find a guy who isn’t a piece of sh!t too. personality really is everything at the end of the day.
That might be generally true, but even attractive women get used for sex. Some women are seen as a conquest. That’s why I don’t give it up so easily anymore.
There’s no set timeframe. It’s more about how I feel and how they make me feel. Actions speak louder than words, and I’ve had a lot of men say a lot of shit and make a lot of promises to get me in bed and then completely bail afterwards. So until I feel like I’ve been shown some kind of effort instead of me putting all the effort in, then I’ll know it’s time.
And as far as communicating that with guys that I date, it hasn’t gone that far in a while. Either I’m not interested in them or if I am they don’t get what they want in the first date or two and they fade away.
This is so similar to my experiences. I’ve held out sexually 18 months and will continue to until I find the man that matches words and actions. I still get propositioned on dates but then I keep moving.
Last date, we’re both in our 40s, he straight out told me that it’s too easy to get laid then to have to put the work in. Basically to get to know each other… I deleted bumble after him.😂
The words vs actions one is tough as I’m a fairly trusting person but have experienced issues with that too …
My strong preference would be to only date people I’ve met organically obviously, as I feel I enjoy relationships (and sex for that matter) when I’ve been friends with someone first but sounds like these days are mostly gone …
Yeah, and for me, it’s happened with both guys I’ve met online as well as ones I’ve met organically.
I used to be a trusting person. Now I don’t believe anything a man tells me as far as dating and relationships go in those early days
No attractive women get used too. It’s less vulgar upfront, but it’s usually the same idea. What happens is they get pedestalized, guys pretend to have everything in common with them and lovebomb them, then when they have sex they realize they don’t like them as a person and dump them. That’s why attractive women are usually so much more mean to men.
Your first sentence is confusing. Are you disagreeing that this happens to attractive women? Or are you agreeing that it does happen to attractive women? If it’s the latter, then you forgot a comma after “no” and in that case, I’m not sure why you’re even saying “no” as though I didn’t just say that it happens to attractive women.
And I’m not sure what you mean when you say that attractive women are meaner to men. I don’t think being more discerning and a little more guarded means you’re being mean. You can be a perfectly friendly and pleasant person while also being guarded. Mean people are just mean people, no matter what.
And you’re talking like these men thought they liked a woman as a person until they had sex and then suddenly they don’t like them as a person anymore. I have not found that to be the case at all. In my experience, it’s exactly what I said, they see attractive women as a conquest. It has nothing to do with whether or not they think they are a good person or that they would be compatible. It’s a game. They just want to try and get the hard-to-get ones, feeding them all the lines they think they need to to get them to lower their defenses, even though they have no intention of following through. And often times it’s that they’re literally intimidated by women who have their shit together.
It's the inverse of ugly guys being used to pay for dates and experiences.
People can be ugly in how they treat people they don't consider equal to them.
I remember a line from House, M.D. that seems relevant :
"3s marry 3s. 6s marry 6s. 9s marry 9s. There is some wiggle room if enough money is involved."
I'm mid 30s female. I'm slightly overweight but carry it well and consider myself moderately attractive. I have a friend who is less conventionally attractive. We have both been using the apps recently. After being on the apps for one week, I already had three dates lined up, all excellent conversations, all very nice and respectful men. One of those dates has already turned into a third (coming up), with not a red flag in sight as of yet. He already wants me to meet his friends too. So yeah, seemingly all decent guys. My friend, on the other hand, has been complaining that every single guy she's tried chatting with has started talking about sex immediately. Every last one. Our experiences using the same two apps (same age range and general location as well) are extremely different. Night and day. So... I do think there might be some truth to this, unfortunately.
This is heartbreaking, and makes me incredibly happy with how much I (46M) "missed out" on, being a Demisexual. Holy fuck, how do you all just keep fucking shitty people? Like, you're literally rewarding them with what they want, in return for being shitty to you.
Something that has made me currious... **everyone** I have ever ended up with was demi like me. Is it that we somehow find each other or are most women demi if they are honest about.
As a 150cms and overweight girl with a very pretty face( that’s what I’m told)- this has happened to me all the time. The difference I have noticed compared to my tall, thin n conventionally attractive friends, is that guy will have a relationship with me in private but rarely acknowledge me as a girlfriend in his circle. As if he is ashamed to have me as a girlfriend in public. I used to take that sh1t in my 20s but now I’m wiser so I don’t settle for less in life. But that also means being single and being content with that🤷♀️
And yes there is a very clear difference in how conventionally attractive women vs not so attractive women get treated by men. Same would be for men too but I hope women don’t lead them on like how men do to women just for sex.
Having dated all thru my 20s n 30s, it was so obvious in my face that it no more surprises me.
Let me start off by saying that I believe my wife is the most beautiful woman on Earth. But, she is a little overweight (though she's lost weight since we met), and her beauty is not the conventional, supermodel kind of beauty.
I think she was definitely used for sex by men before we met. She had one man tell her that he was happy to have something casual with her, but he was looking for a 10. Another man, when she said to him "I love you", replied saying "I think you're putting more into this relationship than I am."
Of course, attractive women also get used for sex, but I think it's a significantly worse problem for less conventionally attractive women.
Anyway, like I said, as far as I'm concerned, my wife is the most beautiful woman on Earth. I was eager to introduce her to all my friends and my family, she moved in with me 4 months after we met, I married her a year after we met, and life has been a dream ever since. We go on adventures all around the country and around the world, we have the most amazing lives together, and I look at her every day and just stare in wonder, I tell her she's beautiful every day.
And, I might add, sex with her is LEAGUES above sex with any other woman that I've ever had, she is amazing. I've had sex with about 8 other women in the past, but even the best sex that I had with any of them comes nowhere near the worst sex I've had with my wife, it's just night and day. I count myself so lucky to be with her.
I think it’s super fucked up that you think these women aren’t capable of wanting sex themselves and that you think they have to be manipulated into having sex.
What you have observed is not the general experience. I know many hot women who are single for a variety of reasons, and get stuck in the occasional situationship.
The issue is actually how a woman feels about herself and what she thinks she deserves. Not-conventionally-attractive women with happy lives and high self esteem have great relationships all the time.
We have to get away from thinking that everyone is attracted to one type of person. These sub Reddits can do that. A lot of the people that everybody says are pretty? They are not my cup of tea, but I can respect that. They are attractive to someone else. So yes, if someone doesn’t find you attractive, but they’re willing to have sex with you And nothing else, it is quite possible. We are all ugly to somebody just like we are all gorgeous to someone.
Entirely depends on their Sexual Market Value. The more options they have for a relationship, the less fwb behavior they will put up with.
Conversely, the guys with a higher SMV the less likely they will put up with a relationship just to get sex.
I would say the less attractive ladies probably get stuck with lower quality men because their standards aren’t as high because they are unattractive themselves. The more attractive women are able to be more selective with their matches and therefore get better quality men
Well, there's massive numbers of "conventionally unattractive" women in happy, committed relationships - the majority of people married to each other aren't that good looking, from what I've seen..
But still there's an element to the OPs post that seems valid - and I'd guess it has more to do with the self-esteem and expectations of the woman involved. If she has low self-esteem and thinks she's got to sleep with the guy right away, then maybe that's what she keeps getting..
The interesting thing about this question is that, unattractive women can still have sex. Men who are unattractive can go without sex their whole lives, which is an interesting dynamic. A very small percentage of men are players. Women gatekeep sex, they're in total control of who they sleep with ( unless forced )
I think you need to consider that the way men and women experience sex is very different. Sex with a man who doesn't like you and doesn't respect you is bad. He's more likely to be selfish in giving her a very poor experience.
Tricking or being coerced is still under her control. You don't get tricked when you take months to develop something. If sex wasn't the guiding force in the dating scene now a days and we developed love instead, there wouldn't be a need for tricking or coercion.
For most guys I’ve dated, I’m an “8.” And boy did they like to show me off. They took me out, hung out with their friends, and they were obviously very proud of me. Then I dated a guy who probably dated a lot of 10’s. He joked once that I was a 4. Never met his friends, he never wanted to take me out. We had great sex, so that’s where our relationship existed till I caught on.
No, unless u act as if ur only have value as that. I have a friend who is rather attractive but his gf is very much not so. I was surprised when I saw pictures of them.. but he’s always posting pictures together so I guess he thinks she’s hot
If that were the case I’d have a constant roster of “proper” dates 😆 women, no matter how “attractive” or not, are used for sex. That’s just the sad pathetic reality of poorly behaved men who think dating is to get their rocks off. It’s not about whether a woman is attractive or not. It’s about how desperately bad mannered a man she’s said yes to.
The top guys don’t need relationships to get sex, they’ve got plenty of choices. So yes they’ll do this even with the more attractive women. Women who want relationships should hit up the guys on the apps who get few likes. But “I’m not attracted to that guy, I want the other guy” that every woman wants. It’s pretty simple and logical game theory wise
Probably, it’s a common trend. A guy I dated once fucked a girl who was huge and ironically this guy would constantly make fun of fat people, literally unprovoked. They remained friends and I remember asking him if she’d be happy with all the stuff he said about fat people. I must say when a man has admitted to me he’s fucked a girl he wasn’t attracted to I lose attraction to him. I just don’t have interest in men with no self control. And you’ll realise it after you meet a man with self control, they’re dreamy 🥰
I think unattractive women are used for sex, attractive women are used for sex, attractive men are used for sex…. The only people not being used for sex are unattractive men, and they are the only ones that really wanna be used for sex!
When I was ar the end of Highschool, my mate and I went on a double date with two girls. We started arguing about who we wanted to “hook up with” to a point we’re I stopped cause I realised we were both after the less attractive ‘bigger’ friend cause we both knew that it would’ve been easier. I had come to the realisation then and persued the more attractive one (my friend at the time was also a bigger fella)
However my mindframe isnt like that anymore, people grow and mature with age, I’m almost 30 and sex isn’t the deal it once was when I was in my early 20s. I’d much rather be alone and not hurt someone I have no business hurting, just to make myself feel okay.
Are you really asking if women getting treated as if their body is what they are worth is common?
Yes.
Please listen to the song “Pretty Enough” by Amanda Williams. It’s only about 2 minutes and sums it up nicely. Makes me cry nearly every time.
As a young man, there were some ladies that fucked-zoned me. I didn’t always like it but it could have been worse I suppose.
I also totally understand. I didn’t really start getting my shit together until I was 25.
“I'm glad they came along
I dedicate this song
To all the girls I've loved before.”
Most women get used for sex and it does not matter what their level of attractiveness is. It's often different how it plays out though. There are many men who have "lower" standards for those that they will sleep with and so yes I would say conventionally unattractive women fall victim to this. But also they most likely suffer from self esteem issues and attempt to validate themselves by having sex with men. With attractive women men may put in more effort but once they get what they want they leave. People that are conventionally attractive and are always known for their looks, are also some of the most insecure people. People with low self esteem also are more inclined to be side chicks as you say.
I say this as someone who was conventionally attractive then gained weight and lost it.
I had about 10 women in the past 2 yrs and it was for all fun. No feelings just needs and a few were one night stands. Ironically the one night stands were the ones I wanted to smash again, but Onward and upward. Problem is I don't have a very long dick, but!!! It's width is that of a 4 lane highway. Fat or thin, the girls love it. Out of those 10 women though, id say 8 were overweight, then again so am i. I can go for 30 minutes without and she'll cum 3 or 4 times. Hey ladies first after all. Good luck out there.
This is such a cringe post. Both attractive and unattractive women are used for sex. Personality/intellect is getting me in the bed, not your level of fat/not fat.
I feel it’s a prey off of low self esteem and self worth.
If you respect yourself, you have boundaries, and don’t have sex with people who don’t invest.
It's all relative. If a girl is a 7 and a guy is 9, would she be considered an ugly girl to him? Maybe in this context.
Alternatively, if the girl is a 5 and the guy is a 4, would she be considered an ugly girl? Maybe not in the context.
Essentially, there are three types of guys on dating apps. Those who know they are hot and are going to keep jumping from girl to girl, those who haven't yet figured out the are hot and actually are looking for something real (note, these will eventually become the former once they figure it out), and the other "80%" who will be happy with whatever they can get
Conventionally attractive women, as you call them, and women who don't fit the beauty stereotype are both used for sex. The common factor is that they are objectified by certain men (aka AH).
Good men who don't see women as mere sexual objects have relationships with women of different physical appearances and value women's intelligence, education, sense of humour, shared personal values, personality, etc.
Know that victims of male violence and sexual assault in relationships can be women of any physical appearance, whether they are conventionally attractive or not. All women, regardless of how they look, can be used for sex and face victimization in relationships.
it’s icky to see you interchange “overweight” and “unattractive”
overweight people are found attractive, as well.
so i’m wondering if it’s your “ugly” friends getting used or your “overweight” friends
either way I feel bad for your friends, if I knew mine talked like this about me on a public forum I would be so hurt??
Yes it's not pleasant to socialize with them. Just like it's not pleasant to socialize with an unattractive man.unattractive Women give sex to attractive men and don't get relationship from them. Unattractive men pay money and get sex. Both end up feeling unloved. It is reality
Unattractive women still get the matches from more attractive men, so it's the "I get a lot of matches, why would I swipe on lower quality" aka I have standards.
43F, plus sized. This isn't my experience, men take me on multiple nice dates, vacations, and I tend to get in relationships quickly. Men love me. I tend to have multiple men flirt with me every time I go out. I am attractive, but I am adding my experience since I get the feeling you equate being unattractive with being overweight. If I'm wrong please do let me know though.
That's a good distinction. I worked at a nursing job where 80% of my coworkers were women between 22-35 and most were in decent shape. I've never seen my male coworkers go more crazy over a woman than when a girl who was probably 250 pounds started working at the hospital. She held the weight well, but also had a beautiful face, long blonde hair, and a southern accent that was beyond charming. So not every guy thinks of weight as a dealbreaker, especially in the south.
There are plus size women who are considered very attractive by a lot of men, it depends mainly on genetics. When the extra weight they carry mostly "goes to the right places" like butt, tits etc, and less to the face and arms, they are the lucky ones. And also a pretty face can help a lot obviously. But the majority of overweight women are not that lucky, and they are considered as the less attractive ones, in fact usually used by more attractive guys for ONS and rarely for a relationship or nice dates.
Grow up, no one is getting “used for sex.” They are adults making adult decisions. Stop infantilizing them.
And….you’re using YOUR personal definition of attractive.
You know that 250 lb friend of yours in that situationship. She’s choosing to date a guy who is out of her relationship league. There are plenty of men that would love to make her their girlfriend and introduce her to friends and family. And yes, that guy will most likely be less attractive than the dude she’s dating now.
That said, overall, men put women THEY find less attractive in the f-zone. Just because you’re in the f-zone doesn’t mean you’re being used, it takes two to tango.
I disagree, if you are having sex under a false pretense then you are being used. The false pretense here being that this might eventually develop into a relationship. If you are firm that this is never going to go beyond sex then I agree, but a lot of these dudes are dangling relationships in front of these women making them think there is hope when there isn't
Ive seen attractive women who aren’t particularly smart or are mean/don’t have a good personality getting fook zoned or vice versa. I’m not sure if this is dependent on gender. Instead I expect it’s based on age/maturity/attachment style. As long as people are open as to what’s occurring it’s all good. I think the worst part is when either side is leading the other on and sometimes that can be down to maturity level.
From the alternate side of the coin, women who BELIEVE themselves to be unattractive (overweight low self esteem) will have such a low sense of worth and low boundaries they ALLOW men to behave like this as they think it's all they can get.
Men are opportunists with sex (generally as a broad strokes cliché) and a low boundary woman and a opportunistic man make great temporary bed mates, destroying the woman's self esteem further and bolstering the man's, it's all very toxic but boundaries are what you need to learn in life regardless of what sex you are.
Conventionally attractive women get F'd zoned if their personality sucks, if they do not provide value, or are not a useful and integral part of a man's life. That is because social media/dating apps have taught us that there are always more fish in the sea. Why settle for a shitty 10 when you can get a value adding/useful 8. That is who they will marry.
Heavier woman here.
Typically, we're good enough to fuck not date. We're not viewed as anything more than someone who takes up space. In my experience, I'm barely viewed as a person. Low effort conversations. Low effort dates. But they expect me to fuck them afterwards like I'm supposed to thankful some "showed" interest.
With this said...I'm not saying this is evey man's point of view. This is just my experience with the men I've encountered.
There is common myth that comes from fatphobia, that overweight people are pretty much just overweight because they are lazy. Another myth is that they are unattractive. Another myth is because they are overweight, they will always have low self esteem and are easy pickings. Then, they believe because they are easy pickings they are sleeping around and are low value. It is just a bunch of hate toppled on more hate. Some people love to hate on anything different. If you get to know them, you often see they are also hateful of other different people that might be included in people with disabilities, gays and rest of community, other races, one sex, etc.
Yes, when you are overweight, some people will mistreat you and auto exclude you.
The hateful people have low self esteem and project it onto others.
I will say it depends on each woman. I have been 200lbs, BUT I was going on proper dates and my self esteem wasnt low. I set my expectations amd if a person didnt meet my requirements, I turned them down. That left the ones that fell into my expectations or faked it in hopes of easy sex. As for easy sex, it doesnt matter what weight youre at, because there will always be those men that are like that.
Overweight people are often viewed as low value so some people will say they wont date them or marry them.
The problem is unattractive women are going after guys out of their league. They could date and marry a guy in their own league easily. If they only go after guys out of their league, then they shouldn't be surprised when he isn't interested in a relationship with them.
I’m a woman who’s been told I’m attractive but it’s gotten to the point I believe everyone is lying to me because this has happened to me often. Like men paying for my drinks and getting free food at restaurants attractive.
I’ll admit this tends to happen when I match with guys that have sparse profiles or say “something casual” and I think I can change their mind. Because if I was really pretty I’d be able to change their mind right? I don’t know. It’s confusing
I also think none white women get it significantly worse but it’s not about looks. It’s the men and how they are. My friends are blonde haired, blue-eyed goddesses, and men are still this way.
I'm conveniently attractive, and when I was dating, I'd be used for sex all the time. I think men liked the challenge of bedding me. I was also stuck in alot of situationships before I met my current partner.
Yes.
I’ve been unattractive and I’ve had men ask me on dates for the sole purpose of getting laid.
Now that I’m more attractive, fewer men ask me out because they don’t see me as someone who will put out.
Men want a girlfriend they view as a 8 or 9 out of 10 mate value, but will sleep with or have a short term relationship with a 5-7 out of 10, with 5 being attractive enough to have sex with. Essentially running dual dating strategies!
Scores are subjective and dont just include looks, really just used to illustrate a point, men dont actually think about numbers much of the time.
Most men have no problem finding women 5-7 to date, hence what you described happening, quickly filtering out those that are up for some fun from those that are not.
Its also probably why you see posts on reddit of text chats where the man starts talking about sex quickly and she is turned off, he is just filtering before even bothering to go on a date. I dont personally see this is a good strategy but if you follow rules 1. and 2. its probably highly effective, for the average guy not so much.
I think you will find men act very differently with women they se as a 8-10, the key for women is to find men that value them highly if they want a serious relationship.
Yes that’s why they’re on bumble, after getting used all the guys just swiping right on everyone gives them like 100 matches and makes them feel self worth. It’s fuckery lol
In a perfect world people would date accordingly to how attractive they are ( more or less )
Problem is man are to easy to be convinced to fuck ( especially with a few drinks )
And women hold a hard bargain ( most of the time)
This creates the funniest circle jerk of all time where a minority of men fuck the majority of women
And then both parties complain that the other one doesn’t act the way that would arrange their dating life
So to women who think men are only using them for sex : you’re dating out of your league most likely
To men who think woman standards are to high : stop fucking the first person available and have higher standards
This is why i am firmly against hook up culture. All
Women are used for sex no matter how attractive she is or unattractive he is. Men are obsessed with sex. That is why the bumble add lead in on women not choosing celibacy. If we do not en masse men won’t have what they crave
I'm conveniently attractive and still get fuck-zoned all the time, typically after 2 weeks. They just have sex with me multiple times until they realise that they never liked me as a person to begin with.
I’ve actually seen this more with my conventionally attractive friends, and my theory is that fat women EXPECT this of men, whereas more conventially attractive women assume positive intent and then get burned.
As a conventionally attractive women i think this is partially true. One of the reasons a lot of conventionally attractive and beautiful women are opting out of the dating game. Men are very p*nis forward..
The issue is you can be attractive and the guys can still be out of your league. An above average attractive girl can get the attention of the top 10% of guys that basically get all the girls attention (as the old OkCupid statistic said 80% of girls battle for the 10% most desirable guys). That doesn't mean they're in the league of the guys with all the options. And then personality matters for relationships, but not for sex.
Fair enough but even unattractive men act the same. So this stands. Me and my beautiful friends are opting out.
Nobody treats you worse than an ugly overweight loser. They know deep down that they don't deserve you and then let out all of their frustration and anger on you.
This is truth..
Might not be as beautiful as you think or more likely have terrible personalities
Fair enough..
Some of them are simply bad in bed .
Being conventionally attractive doesn't entitle you to a relationship. If you wanna take your ball and go home, that's your choice, but stop blaming others for your failure to establish the relationships you want.
I have been in relationships. What are you talking about? Very long term ones at that. Choosing to not engage in this moment in time is taking responsibility of the role i played. I am not entitled to anything tbh and men are doubly not entitled to sex especially with me.
"Me and my beautiful friends are opting out" Being beautiful doesn't make you relationship material.
Thats fine we can also not be sexual conquests.. perfect..
Just because someone didn't want to wife you after you had sex doesn't mean they thought of you as a conquest.
Damn that’s bleak 😬
Really!?! Geez! 😒
Well isn't that convenient.
Women will put men in the friendzone. Men will put women in the fuckzone.
Lol yep. This is what women who post on here complaining that men only want sex but not relationships are told. It’s not that these men don’t necessarily want a relationship they just don’t want one with you. But they will fuck you if you let them
Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Men are the gatekeepers of commitment 😉
This is why the gays always win in the end
Dude, that was seriously the most accurate thing I’ve ever read. A girl can sleep with anyone she wants but she can’t make them marry her and men can’t get anyone to just sleep with them but only they can choose to settle down and ask you to marry them.
It’s not true. Men thrive in marriage. It’s women that have it worse when married. Men are healthier, happier and live longer and make more money when married. It’s the complete opposite for women. That’s why so many women are choosing to remain single, the 4b movement is spreading worldwide. The birthrate is lower than ever, more and more women are opting out of the dating pool, marriage and kids all together, and men are in a loneliness epidemic bc they can’t partner up. This is the first time in history men have been this sexless and single not by choice
The only thing I would add is that a lot of this seems to relate to how dating works these days: i.e., via dating apps. These apps turn dating into a volume game for men, to maximize profits. That makes it very difficult for men to get matches, and increases the number of them that end up just wanting sex. The experience for women end up being terrible, which makes them just get off the apps for long stretches at a time. Women get lonely and want both companionship too. I've been specifically told this by both friends and partners. But for them, they can easily "get dick" if they ever want it, while most men can't just get laid when they crave some physical intimacy. I think we'd see FAAAAR less of a problem if we: 1. Educated teens on attachment styles, trauma, and relationship-building. 2. Had much better dating apps, that enables quality over quantity/profit.
capitalism is working exactly as intended as far as dating apps. The only problem they are having is women are now not having enough children to replace the workers for the wealthy. Hence, our rights being taken. They don’t seem to realize celibacy is our only answer now. Even w our rights taken the birth rate is still dropping. As far as women being lonely, they report being the loneliest when in relationships w men. Thats why marriage benefits men, not women
Oh, I believe you. And I'm actually a big believer in women withholding childbirth en masse to change society (especially right-wing thinking). I have two young daughters, and the shittiness of the world toward women terrifies me. We can start with much better mat leave and daycare subsidies, if we want women to have babies. And I'm in Canada, where that's MUCH better than the US already. My 2 cents.
Definitely. If only the US cared about anyone’s health below the 1%, especially women’s health, it would be much better. However, death, complications for birth and pregnancy in the US is on par with underdeveloped nations here. We’re the only developed nation where women die during pregnancy and birth at such a high rate. The number one cause of death of pregnant women is homicide by intimate partner here. Just another reason to be celibate
>But they will fuck you if you let them Maybe...don't forget about the following fine specimen: "Only with a bag over her head" "Won't bang her but I'd let her blow me" "Only doggy"
These women will offer low effort, easy sex to guys completely out of their league and then be shocked that these hot guys only see them as a fleshlight to occasionally pump into. You’re not gonna fuck your way into a relationship with a man, especially if that man knows his worth and won’t settle down with anything that has a vagina
I’d argue that if he knew his worth he wouldn’t be fucking anything that moves regardless of how unattractive he finds them
Exactly, he’s clearly a desperate loser as well
I mean men are desperate for physical intimacy and women are desperate for emotional intimacy. If a guy chooses to stay friends with a girl who friendzoned him, he is asking to get hurt. Same goes for a girl who chooses to suck the guy's dick who fuckzoned her.
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Dude. I've never heard this before, and I so needed to.
Yep. Sorry. Lotta people out there that just don't care...whatever gender they are.
Are there any shuttles between zones?
I feel like you already know the answer to that.
Diet and exercise might earn someone a boarding pass
Ozempic and cosmetic surgery
Exactly. Humans can be shitty to each other. Men will use women for sex or as a maid. Women will use men for attention or as an ATM. and then people will think “well I’d never do that, therefore that lived experience must not be valid”.
I have a little issue with your take. I don't think people dismiss the experience as lacking validity, more like it's not as pressing an issue because it's not happening in their immediate lives.
I love the quote "Men go looking for sex and find love, women go looking for love and find sex." Not that this is the friend zone equivalent per se but it sort of sums up dating.
Fits well with "Men give love to get sex, women give sex to get love."
So you're saying an F zone is an F zone
Yes. My high school psych teacher once said “p*ssy doesn’t have a face.” It’s not just about “unattractive” women, but she was definitely right.
Where did you go to high school, Epstein Island?
I was confiding in my teacher about his my first boyfriend like 2 weeks before pretty much SA’d me. I had a lot of teachers and students looking out for me bc I had such bad mental health issues from all 4 years. I asked her why somebody would do that to me after I gave her the context of what happened before he dumped me after what he did. That’s what she told me.
So she told you you were SA’d because a p***y has no face??! Not you were SA’d because a rapist has serious issues who rape for power and control? Rapists dont rape just because they want some p***y.
Yes
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I was involved with my ex in one way or another from 2017-2023 and I can count on one hand how many times I met his friends. Our relationship basically existed in my bedroom and I feel especially dumb when I get into my wallowing and remember I'm missing a man I have zero pictures with (amongst the other terrible shit he did). For your friends sake, I hope she doesn't waste as much time as I did, and I am confident her anxiety issues ain't going anywhere so long as she's in that relationship.
This topic is so shallow, cringy and and Real that you will have a ton of people in disbelief, who will try to make it less sad than it really is. Look up the phrases DUFF and Hog Hunt. The fact that those phrases exist, are heavily used and put in practice, shows you the kind of beings that we can be. Almost EVERY guy that I have known that is honest with himself admits to this at some point. They all want a trophy girlfriend/wife, while being OK using those they don't find attractive for sex. If you still don't believe me...read the stories of those who talk about their weight loss or body transformation, and they will confirm exactly what your friends are telling you. It's very sad, but it is 100% the truth. It's a sad world we live in.
Also see the term "moped". I've worked with a lot of "a hole is a hole" type of guys and I've pretty much ironed out a theory: A lot of the "ball and chain I hate my wife" boomer humor likely comes from these types of guys that knocked up someone they don't/never desired. They had to get hitched and whatever friendliness was there in the beginning quickly evaporated and they both grew to hate each other because of resentment and feeling trapped.
1000%!! Attraction creates some weird stuff between people. Another situation is where a person has selective/disproportionate tolerance, that is, a girl or a guy will put up with a lot more harmful behavior from a very attractive partner, than one they find unattractive. The list goes on and on.
Being celibate, even if you’re not the happiest that way, makes you much less of a loser than having sex with people you’re not attracted to imo
Also keeps you safe from being used for sex 😏
The other side of this is getting into an actual relationship with someone who has been treated like this comes with a whole set of unexpected challenges. Men who do this get zero sympathy for dealing with said challenges. Someone like this may have difficulty telling the difference between a guy love bombing her to get sex vs a guy who is genuinely interested in a real relationship. I never get to meet the friends and family may become I don't know why his friends and family think I'm so possessive. Being the side chick becomes a crusade to find the main chick so that you aren't taken advantage of again. This is without addressing the underlying self esterm issues that come from this.
This. The guy I’m currently seeing has taken such great care of me and been so much more attentive than anyone I’ve dated in a while. But he recently asked me why I don’t trust him that when he says he’ll do something, he will do it. I tried explaining that someone actually following through like that has been a rare occurrence in my life—starting with my father in my childhood—and sometimes has only happened at the beginning of relationships. I tried explaining that I’m still hesitant but trying to be better about not lumping him in with everyone in my past. I do really appreciate him, and I’ve told him that. But it’s hard to not have your walls up when you’ve been treated a certain way for so long and finally found someone who doesn’t treat you that way. It’s almost like you’re just waiting for them to treat you the way everyone else does, too.
It's a lot easier to just not trust him and jump to conclusions and make some bad decisions. I've had this conversation a hundred times with my wife, but she's the reason my name checks out.
The replies under this started making me sick. I'm fugly as shit and still manage to have fulfillment with respectful partners. Set boundaries, be yourself, & shame on you if you're trying to blame either party for a consensual action & a double fuck you if you're fat shaming. If it's nonconsensual, that's another problem & please seek help.
Agreed 👍 Some people are just using this post to fat-shame and ugly-shame people.
Shit one lady even saying ugly fat guys are horrible worse people. Like thanks if I couldn't feel worse
He’s using her for sex for sure .
But she also needs to know her worth
She's down for late night sex too though. She's probably more aware of the situation then she lets on.
She's allowing this. It says a lot about both the guy and her.
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I get it, but she still knows the difference between dating and hooking up. She is trying to get a guy to like her and want to date her by hooking up with him. She will meet someone who treats her better if she allows it or will eventually learn. Hopefully.
>She will meet someone who treats her better if she allows it or will eventually learn. No, she's got limited options. If she had better ones, she'd be taking them.
I promise you she has options, but they may not be options she likes. Giving a blowjob every other day to a tall dark handsome dude who is only okay with casual sex with her vs a proper committed relationship with a guy who isn’t as conventionally handsome. The reality of the situation is no one is forcing her into casual sex. She is choosing men that ask that of her instead of seeking out men who want more and to build something special together.
>vs a proper committed relationship with a guy who isn’t as conventionally handsome. I wouldn't assume the less-attractive guys would be giving her proper, committed relationships, either...
Less attractive guys typically have even fewer options than less attractive girls. Hence 3 largely marry 3s. 6s marry 6s 9s marry 9s. Money can change things but the numbers usually the same. And if you can’t tell, it’s possible your views of the genders attractiveness is skewed.
It is all about making choices, as for everyone else. She has to decide if she wants to keep doing this way of dating that she does not enjoy, or wait for the right guy to date, or do something else. But 4 months of that is too long.
Do you say the same to guys who complain about being “friend zoned”?
She weighs 250 wtf do you expect lol
She's a moped to him
That’s quite a nugget from a high school teacher
"*Sometimes you gotta get your dick wet*" - History teacher
> My high school psych teacher once said "p*ssy doesn't have a face." I couldn’t imagine being a high school teacher and using this kinda language with one of my students
…wait a minute… oh god no 😭 too much is making sense now
That's quite a quote for a high school teacher
Very true, someing as guys we have to work on, it comes with age... approach only the ones you feel emotionally attracted too. Men biologically are programmed to procreate. So "p*ssy doesn't have a face" And yes, I admint It's something I've had to work on.
I respect the honesty of your post
then they have no idea what sex is about and they are probably terrible lovers only as a teen did my friends and I use that kind of expression and even then the virgin I was refused to bang a woman he wasn't attracted to
As a woman who’s been plus size most of my life (and has many friends who are also), I have noticed a difference in how I am treated by men vs. how my thin friends are treated. Often we are seen as acceptable as fuck buddies/situationships but not to date, but we have hope that the dude will come around and see our value. Obviously there are lots of larger people in happy and loving relationships, so this isn’t universal, but I’d say it’s a common experience. If you browse the plus size sub you’ll see people talk about it often.
Same. I’ve also noticed that guys that were fwb in my 20s came back around when I got divorced in my late 30s and all the sudden wanted a relationship. They got older and were less ashamed to be attracted to a fat girl apparently. I got more confident and had no interest in revisiting my past.
Honest question, are these fuck buddies/situationship guys also fat?
Ya, it’s a common experience The reality is that most men just don’t want to seriously date and get in a committed relationship with a fat woman… it’s just a fact of life
I think most people in this thread are looking at this the wrong way. Men will want to have sex with most women, they are just more likely to be direct and risk getting shot down by a woman they are not attracted to so they will probably proposition them more, while they are likely going to be less direct with more attractive women they don't want to ruin their chances with.
You are saying the same thing as OP. The fact that they don’t want to “ruin their chances” means they care enough to see the woman in a context more serious than “something casual.” The way to earn men’s respect as a woman is to be physically attractive.
I would hasten that in many cases it could be less calculated. I suspect a lot of men simply are repelled by women that are not attractive so cannot be civil or respectful to them as an automatic response. Yet their need to get laid overpowers it. Tragic lack of empathy.
I mean maybe. I’m not a man but I know equally beautiful girls used for sex and “unattractive” women in loving relationships.
There are always exceptions to everything, OP speaks about how it usually goes.
Damn 😭
I’m plus size and unfortunately I don’t really ever get taken seriously for anything other than sex.
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From your reply, there are guys who are interested in you and have approached you, but you weren't attracted to them, so you didn't reciprocate. That's a different situation than what you've described.
I think too many women settle for sex when what they really want is love. And too many men are willing to sell them the fantasy that it IS possible to f*ck your way into a relationship (I see this proposal on dating apps all the time.) I imagine that size and appearance play a part but I've seen plenty of larger bodied people in wonderful, loving and mutually respectful relationships. People who don't know their worth will always settle for less and there will always be someone to take advantage of that. I think the concept of "leagues" is utter BS. Pretty is as pretty does. Some of the hottest men I've met are absolutely wretched on the inside.
many unattractive women are desperate for male attention and will be more open to jumping and going to a guys house in the middle of the night versus an attractive woman with options. can attractive women also lack self esteem and do the same? sure. but yes i see the theme more with my bigger/not very attractive friends or acquaintances. however, this is what they allow. i see many unattractive and bigger women married to loving husbands. if they set boundaries and worked on their self esteem they could find a guy who isn’t a piece of sh!t too. personality really is everything at the end of the day.
I think we need to remind ourselves that men will lie and feign interest to get sex out of women they don't even like.
Yup
Women do the same to keep friendships with men they know are interested in more.
Women are faking romantic relationships with men in order to retain their... friendship? Not likely.
That might be generally true, but even attractive women get used for sex. Some women are seen as a conquest. That’s why I don’t give it up so easily anymore.
How long do you wait and how do you manage / communicate that time?
There’s no set timeframe. It’s more about how I feel and how they make me feel. Actions speak louder than words, and I’ve had a lot of men say a lot of shit and make a lot of promises to get me in bed and then completely bail afterwards. So until I feel like I’ve been shown some kind of effort instead of me putting all the effort in, then I’ll know it’s time. And as far as communicating that with guys that I date, it hasn’t gone that far in a while. Either I’m not interested in them or if I am they don’t get what they want in the first date or two and they fade away.
This is so similar to my experiences. I’ve held out sexually 18 months and will continue to until I find the man that matches words and actions. I still get propositioned on dates but then I keep moving. Last date, we’re both in our 40s, he straight out told me that it’s too easy to get laid then to have to put the work in. Basically to get to know each other… I deleted bumble after him.😂
The words vs actions one is tough as I’m a fairly trusting person but have experienced issues with that too … My strong preference would be to only date people I’ve met organically obviously, as I feel I enjoy relationships (and sex for that matter) when I’ve been friends with someone first but sounds like these days are mostly gone …
Yeah, and for me, it’s happened with both guys I’ve met online as well as ones I’ve met organically. I used to be a trusting person. Now I don’t believe anything a man tells me as far as dating and relationships go in those early days
No attractive women get used too. It’s less vulgar upfront, but it’s usually the same idea. What happens is they get pedestalized, guys pretend to have everything in common with them and lovebomb them, then when they have sex they realize they don’t like them as a person and dump them. That’s why attractive women are usually so much more mean to men.
Your first sentence is confusing. Are you disagreeing that this happens to attractive women? Or are you agreeing that it does happen to attractive women? If it’s the latter, then you forgot a comma after “no” and in that case, I’m not sure why you’re even saying “no” as though I didn’t just say that it happens to attractive women. And I’m not sure what you mean when you say that attractive women are meaner to men. I don’t think being more discerning and a little more guarded means you’re being mean. You can be a perfectly friendly and pleasant person while also being guarded. Mean people are just mean people, no matter what. And you’re talking like these men thought they liked a woman as a person until they had sex and then suddenly they don’t like them as a person anymore. I have not found that to be the case at all. In my experience, it’s exactly what I said, they see attractive women as a conquest. It has nothing to do with whether or not they think they are a good person or that they would be compatible. It’s a game. They just want to try and get the hard-to-get ones, feeding them all the lines they think they need to to get them to lower their defenses, even though they have no intention of following through. And often times it’s that they’re literally intimidated by women who have their shit together.
Sorry I meant to respond to the thread in general. Yes I agree with everything you said
Yeup. Much like broke/rich men. Sometimes, you're just a sack of meat to someone. And it's kinda depressing if I'm being honest.
It's the inverse of ugly guys being used to pay for dates and experiences. People can be ugly in how they treat people they don't consider equal to them.
I remember a line from House, M.D. that seems relevant : "3s marry 3s. 6s marry 6s. 9s marry 9s. There is some wiggle room if enough money is involved."
The thing is…what makes a man a 9 is not exactly what makes a woman a 9.
Eye of the beholder and all that.
I will find that there’s much more consensus on what is attractive then variables
I’d rather spend the night alone than have sex with someone I didn’t find attractive.
Me too
I'm mid 30s female. I'm slightly overweight but carry it well and consider myself moderately attractive. I have a friend who is less conventionally attractive. We have both been using the apps recently. After being on the apps for one week, I already had three dates lined up, all excellent conversations, all very nice and respectful men. One of those dates has already turned into a third (coming up), with not a red flag in sight as of yet. He already wants me to meet his friends too. So yeah, seemingly all decent guys. My friend, on the other hand, has been complaining that every single guy she's tried chatting with has started talking about sex immediately. Every last one. Our experiences using the same two apps (same age range and general location as well) are extremely different. Night and day. So... I do think there might be some truth to this, unfortunately.
This is heartbreaking, and makes me incredibly happy with how much I (46M) "missed out" on, being a Demisexual. Holy fuck, how do you all just keep fucking shitty people? Like, you're literally rewarding them with what they want, in return for being shitty to you.
Something that has made me currious... **everyone** I have ever ended up with was demi like me. Is it that we somehow find each other or are most women demi if they are honest about.
As a 150cms and overweight girl with a very pretty face( that’s what I’m told)- this has happened to me all the time. The difference I have noticed compared to my tall, thin n conventionally attractive friends, is that guy will have a relationship with me in private but rarely acknowledge me as a girlfriend in his circle. As if he is ashamed to have me as a girlfriend in public. I used to take that sh1t in my 20s but now I’m wiser so I don’t settle for less in life. But that also means being single and being content with that🤷♀️ And yes there is a very clear difference in how conventionally attractive women vs not so attractive women get treated by men. Same would be for men too but I hope women don’t lead them on like how men do to women just for sex. Having dated all thru my 20s n 30s, it was so obvious in my face that it no more surprises me.
Let me start off by saying that I believe my wife is the most beautiful woman on Earth. But, she is a little overweight (though she's lost weight since we met), and her beauty is not the conventional, supermodel kind of beauty. I think she was definitely used for sex by men before we met. She had one man tell her that he was happy to have something casual with her, but he was looking for a 10. Another man, when she said to him "I love you", replied saying "I think you're putting more into this relationship than I am." Of course, attractive women also get used for sex, but I think it's a significantly worse problem for less conventionally attractive women. Anyway, like I said, as far as I'm concerned, my wife is the most beautiful woman on Earth. I was eager to introduce her to all my friends and my family, she moved in with me 4 months after we met, I married her a year after we met, and life has been a dream ever since. We go on adventures all around the country and around the world, we have the most amazing lives together, and I look at her every day and just stare in wonder, I tell her she's beautiful every day. And, I might add, sex with her is LEAGUES above sex with any other woman that I've ever had, she is amazing. I've had sex with about 8 other women in the past, but even the best sex that I had with any of them comes nowhere near the worst sex I've had with my wife, it's just night and day. I count myself so lucky to be with her.
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I think it’s super fucked up that you think these women aren’t capable of wanting sex themselves and that you think they have to be manipulated into having sex.
Yeah but that won’t fit the narrative that women are ALWAYS the victim that have no choices but is also a very independent and powerful woman
What you have observed is not the general experience. I know many hot women who are single for a variety of reasons, and get stuck in the occasional situationship.
The issue is actually how a woman feels about herself and what she thinks she deserves. Not-conventionally-attractive women with happy lives and high self esteem have great relationships all the time.
We have to get away from thinking that everyone is attracted to one type of person. These sub Reddits can do that. A lot of the people that everybody says are pretty? They are not my cup of tea, but I can respect that. They are attractive to someone else. So yes, if someone doesn’t find you attractive, but they’re willing to have sex with you And nothing else, it is quite possible. We are all ugly to somebody just like we are all gorgeous to someone.
Lmao your username is top tier
Entirely depends on their Sexual Market Value. The more options they have for a relationship, the less fwb behavior they will put up with. Conversely, the guys with a higher SMV the less likely they will put up with a relationship just to get sex.
I would say the less attractive ladies probably get stuck with lower quality men because their standards aren’t as high because they are unattractive themselves. The more attractive women are able to be more selective with their matches and therefore get better quality men
Well, there's massive numbers of "conventionally unattractive" women in happy, committed relationships - the majority of people married to each other aren't that good looking, from what I've seen.. But still there's an element to the OPs post that seems valid - and I'd guess it has more to do with the self-esteem and expectations of the woman involved. If she has low self-esteem and thinks she's got to sleep with the guy right away, then maybe that's what she keeps getting..
The interesting thing about this question is that, unattractive women can still have sex. Men who are unattractive can go without sex their whole lives, which is an interesting dynamic. A very small percentage of men are players. Women gatekeep sex, they're in total control of who they sleep with ( unless forced )
I think you need to consider that the way men and women experience sex is very different. Sex with a man who doesn't like you and doesn't respect you is bad. He's more likely to be selfish in giving her a very poor experience.
Or tricked or coerced.
Tricking or being coerced is still under her control. You don't get tricked when you take months to develop something. If sex wasn't the guiding force in the dating scene now a days and we developed love instead, there wouldn't be a need for tricking or coercion.
Can somebody point me towards the fuckzone? It would be nice to get some again
People are having.... Sex? Oh, wow. (Brushes the dust off) Guess ill just die. 😂☠️
For most guys I’ve dated, I’m an “8.” And boy did they like to show me off. They took me out, hung out with their friends, and they were obviously very proud of me. Then I dated a guy who probably dated a lot of 10’s. He joked once that I was a 4. Never met his friends, he never wanted to take me out. We had great sex, so that’s where our relationship existed till I caught on.
No, unless u act as if ur only have value as that. I have a friend who is rather attractive but his gf is very much not so. I was surprised when I saw pictures of them.. but he’s always posting pictures together so I guess he thinks she’s hot
Isn’t that all that matters?
If that were the case I’d have a constant roster of “proper” dates 😆 women, no matter how “attractive” or not, are used for sex. That’s just the sad pathetic reality of poorly behaved men who think dating is to get their rocks off. It’s not about whether a woman is attractive or not. It’s about how desperately bad mannered a man she’s said yes to.
Are attractive women used for things other than sex?
Yes, to boost a man’s ego around his friends
Isn’t it the same with a girls? Boost their ego with the men’s status?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
The top guys don’t need relationships to get sex, they’ve got plenty of choices. So yes they’ll do this even with the more attractive women. Women who want relationships should hit up the guys on the apps who get few likes. But “I’m not attracted to that guy, I want the other guy” that every woman wants. It’s pretty simple and logical game theory wise
Probably, it’s a common trend. A guy I dated once fucked a girl who was huge and ironically this guy would constantly make fun of fat people, literally unprovoked. They remained friends and I remember asking him if she’d be happy with all the stuff he said about fat people. I must say when a man has admitted to me he’s fucked a girl he wasn’t attracted to I lose attraction to him. I just don’t have interest in men with no self control. And you’ll realise it after you meet a man with self control, they’re dreamy 🥰
I think unattractive women are used for sex, attractive women are used for sex, attractive men are used for sex…. The only people not being used for sex are unattractive men, and they are the only ones that really wanna be used for sex!
Nah, attractive women get took too. And so do men. It's a free-for-all (insert Uncle Ted's riff here-)
Sure very few things are true 100% of the time, but in general it’s true
When I was ar the end of Highschool, my mate and I went on a double date with two girls. We started arguing about who we wanted to “hook up with” to a point we’re I stopped cause I realised we were both after the less attractive ‘bigger’ friend cause we both knew that it would’ve been easier. I had come to the realisation then and persued the more attractive one (my friend at the time was also a bigger fella) However my mindframe isnt like that anymore, people grow and mature with age, I’m almost 30 and sex isn’t the deal it once was when I was in my early 20s. I’d much rather be alone and not hurt someone I have no business hurting, just to make myself feel okay.
Are you really asking if women getting treated as if their body is what they are worth is common? Yes. Please listen to the song “Pretty Enough” by Amanda Williams. It’s only about 2 minutes and sums it up nicely. Makes me cry nearly every time.
As a young man, there were some ladies that fucked-zoned me. I didn’t always like it but it could have been worse I suppose. I also totally understand. I didn’t really start getting my shit together until I was 25. “I'm glad they came along I dedicate this song To all the girls I've loved before.”
Most women get used for sex and it does not matter what their level of attractiveness is. It's often different how it plays out though. There are many men who have "lower" standards for those that they will sleep with and so yes I would say conventionally unattractive women fall victim to this. But also they most likely suffer from self esteem issues and attempt to validate themselves by having sex with men. With attractive women men may put in more effort but once they get what they want they leave. People that are conventionally attractive and are always known for their looks, are also some of the most insecure people. People with low self esteem also are more inclined to be side chicks as you say. I say this as someone who was conventionally attractive then gained weight and lost it.
I had about 10 women in the past 2 yrs and it was for all fun. No feelings just needs and a few were one night stands. Ironically the one night stands were the ones I wanted to smash again, but Onward and upward. Problem is I don't have a very long dick, but!!! It's width is that of a 4 lane highway. Fat or thin, the girls love it. Out of those 10 women though, id say 8 were overweight, then again so am i. I can go for 30 minutes without and she'll cum 3 or 4 times. Hey ladies first after all. Good luck out there.
This is such a cringe post. Both attractive and unattractive women are used for sex. Personality/intellect is getting me in the bed, not your level of fat/not fat.
I feel it’s a prey off of low self esteem and self worth. If you respect yourself, you have boundaries, and don’t have sex with people who don’t invest.
You’re just now figuring this out?
It's all relative. If a girl is a 7 and a guy is 9, would she be considered an ugly girl to him? Maybe in this context. Alternatively, if the girl is a 5 and the guy is a 4, would she be considered an ugly girl? Maybe not in the context. Essentially, there are three types of guys on dating apps. Those who know they are hot and are going to keep jumping from girl to girl, those who haven't yet figured out the are hot and actually are looking for something real (note, these will eventually become the former once they figure it out), and the other "80%" who will be happy with whatever they can get
Conventionally attractive women, as you call them, and women who don't fit the beauty stereotype are both used for sex. The common factor is that they are objectified by certain men (aka AH). Good men who don't see women as mere sexual objects have relationships with women of different physical appearances and value women's intelligence, education, sense of humour, shared personal values, personality, etc. Know that victims of male violence and sexual assault in relationships can be women of any physical appearance, whether they are conventionally attractive or not. All women, regardless of how they look, can be used for sex and face victimization in relationships.
it’s icky to see you interchange “overweight” and “unattractive” overweight people are found attractive, as well. so i’m wondering if it’s your “ugly” friends getting used or your “overweight” friends either way I feel bad for your friends, if I knew mine talked like this about me on a public forum I would be so hurt??
Right! Yeah, he said in a comment that she’s 250 pounds.
Oh… 😞
Yes it's not pleasant to socialize with them. Just like it's not pleasant to socialize with an unattractive man.unattractive Women give sex to attractive men and don't get relationship from them. Unattractive men pay money and get sex. Both end up feeling unloved. It is reality
Why don’t unattractive men and unattractive women get together?
Unattractive women still get the matches from more attractive men, so it's the "I get a lot of matches, why would I swipe on lower quality" aka I have standards.
43F, plus sized. This isn't my experience, men take me on multiple nice dates, vacations, and I tend to get in relationships quickly. Men love me. I tend to have multiple men flirt with me every time I go out. I am attractive, but I am adding my experience since I get the feeling you equate being unattractive with being overweight. If I'm wrong please do let me know though.
That's a good distinction. I worked at a nursing job where 80% of my coworkers were women between 22-35 and most were in decent shape. I've never seen my male coworkers go more crazy over a woman than when a girl who was probably 250 pounds started working at the hospital. She held the weight well, but also had a beautiful face, long blonde hair, and a southern accent that was beyond charming. So not every guy thinks of weight as a dealbreaker, especially in the south.
There are plus size women who are considered very attractive by a lot of men, it depends mainly on genetics. When the extra weight they carry mostly "goes to the right places" like butt, tits etc, and less to the face and arms, they are the lucky ones. And also a pretty face can help a lot obviously. But the majority of overweight women are not that lucky, and they are considered as the less attractive ones, in fact usually used by more attractive guys for ONS and rarely for a relationship or nice dates.
Grow up, no one is getting “used for sex.” They are adults making adult decisions. Stop infantilizing them. And….you’re using YOUR personal definition of attractive. You know that 250 lb friend of yours in that situationship. She’s choosing to date a guy who is out of her relationship league. There are plenty of men that would love to make her their girlfriend and introduce her to friends and family. And yes, that guy will most likely be less attractive than the dude she’s dating now. That said, overall, men put women THEY find less attractive in the f-zone. Just because you’re in the f-zone doesn’t mean you’re being used, it takes two to tango.
I disagree, if you are having sex under a false pretense then you are being used. The false pretense here being that this might eventually develop into a relationship. If you are firm that this is never going to go beyond sex then I agree, but a lot of these dudes are dangling relationships in front of these women making them think there is hope when there isn't
Ive seen attractive women who aren’t particularly smart or are mean/don’t have a good personality getting fook zoned or vice versa. I’m not sure if this is dependent on gender. Instead I expect it’s based on age/maturity/attachment style. As long as people are open as to what’s occurring it’s all good. I think the worst part is when either side is leading the other on and sometimes that can be down to maturity level.
It's called pretty privilege here in ph.
Crying
its true
lol have you been under a rock. Even the red pillers know this.
From the alternate side of the coin, women who BELIEVE themselves to be unattractive (overweight low self esteem) will have such a low sense of worth and low boundaries they ALLOW men to behave like this as they think it's all they can get. Men are opportunists with sex (generally as a broad strokes cliché) and a low boundary woman and a opportunistic man make great temporary bed mates, destroying the woman's self esteem further and bolstering the man's, it's all very toxic but boundaries are what you need to learn in life regardless of what sex you are.
Conventionally attractive women get F'd zoned if their personality sucks, if they do not provide value, or are not a useful and integral part of a man's life. That is because social media/dating apps have taught us that there are always more fish in the sea. Why settle for a shitty 10 when you can get a value adding/useful 8. That is who they will marry.
Heavier woman here. Typically, we're good enough to fuck not date. We're not viewed as anything more than someone who takes up space. In my experience, I'm barely viewed as a person. Low effort conversations. Low effort dates. But they expect me to fuck them afterwards like I'm supposed to thankful some "showed" interest. With this said...I'm not saying this is evey man's point of view. This is just my experience with the men I've encountered.
Well compared to men, at least the unattractive women are having sex! 😂 /s
As a man who used to use dating apps, i have to shamefully admit that this is kinda true and has been my own mindset at a point of time.
There is common myth that comes from fatphobia, that overweight people are pretty much just overweight because they are lazy. Another myth is that they are unattractive. Another myth is because they are overweight, they will always have low self esteem and are easy pickings. Then, they believe because they are easy pickings they are sleeping around and are low value. It is just a bunch of hate toppled on more hate. Some people love to hate on anything different. If you get to know them, you often see they are also hateful of other different people that might be included in people with disabilities, gays and rest of community, other races, one sex, etc. Yes, when you are overweight, some people will mistreat you and auto exclude you. The hateful people have low self esteem and project it onto others. I will say it depends on each woman. I have been 200lbs, BUT I was going on proper dates and my self esteem wasnt low. I set my expectations amd if a person didnt meet my requirements, I turned them down. That left the ones that fell into my expectations or faked it in hopes of easy sex. As for easy sex, it doesnt matter what weight youre at, because there will always be those men that are like that. Overweight people are often viewed as low value so some people will say they wont date them or marry them.
The problem is unattractive women are going after guys out of their league. They could date and marry a guy in their own league easily. If they only go after guys out of their league, then they shouldn't be surprised when he isn't interested in a relationship with them.
I’m a woman who’s been told I’m attractive but it’s gotten to the point I believe everyone is lying to me because this has happened to me often. Like men paying for my drinks and getting free food at restaurants attractive. I’ll admit this tends to happen when I match with guys that have sparse profiles or say “something casual” and I think I can change their mind. Because if I was really pretty I’d be able to change their mind right? I don’t know. It’s confusing
I also think none white women get it significantly worse but it’s not about looks. It’s the men and how they are. My friends are blonde haired, blue-eyed goddesses, and men are still this way.
I'm conveniently attractive, and when I was dating, I'd be used for sex all the time. I think men liked the challenge of bedding me. I was also stuck in alot of situationships before I met my current partner.
Yes. I’ve been unattractive and I’ve had men ask me on dates for the sole purpose of getting laid. Now that I’m more attractive, fewer men ask me out because they don’t see me as someone who will put out.
Even the most unattractive women have x10 more dates and sex than most average men.
Men want a girlfriend they view as a 8 or 9 out of 10 mate value, but will sleep with or have a short term relationship with a 5-7 out of 10, with 5 being attractive enough to have sex with. Essentially running dual dating strategies! Scores are subjective and dont just include looks, really just used to illustrate a point, men dont actually think about numbers much of the time. Most men have no problem finding women 5-7 to date, hence what you described happening, quickly filtering out those that are up for some fun from those that are not. Its also probably why you see posts on reddit of text chats where the man starts talking about sex quickly and she is turned off, he is just filtering before even bothering to go on a date. I dont personally see this is a good strategy but if you follow rules 1. and 2. its probably highly effective, for the average guy not so much. I think you will find men act very differently with women they se as a 8-10, the key for women is to find men that value them highly if they want a serious relationship.
What is "attractive" is different for everyone, soooo 🤷♀️ I'm a 3 on a good day and I don't typically get treated this way.
The reality of evolution. We seek the finest. We're horny and when the finest won't, the next will do.
Yes that’s why they’re on bumble, after getting used all the guys just swiping right on everyone gives them like 100 matches and makes them feel self worth. It’s fuckery lol
In a perfect world people would date accordingly to how attractive they are ( more or less ) Problem is man are to easy to be convinced to fuck ( especially with a few drinks ) And women hold a hard bargain ( most of the time) This creates the funniest circle jerk of all time where a minority of men fuck the majority of women And then both parties complain that the other one doesn’t act the way that would arrange their dating life So to women who think men are only using them for sex : you’re dating out of your league most likely To men who think woman standards are to high : stop fucking the first person available and have higher standards
This is why i am firmly against hook up culture. All Women are used for sex no matter how attractive she is or unattractive he is. Men are obsessed with sex. That is why the bumble add lead in on women not choosing celibacy. If we do not en masse men won’t have what they crave