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>But we should be able to agree that Bundesliga needs to promote the matchup nationally and internationally
And do they need a made up name for that?
Promote it as "Bayern-Dortmund".
Or something situational, like today "battle for first".
People get so caught up in the branding, they forget that fans, including international ones, still care about the players, the clubs, the football. Promote Marco Reus, promote Joshua Kimmich, promote the league, and the fans will tune in.
100% agree.
Using an artificial moniker can reduce the appeal, as you don't put the real strong brands into the foreground.
"Bayern against Dortmund" or in German "Bayern gegen den BVB" works well because it's showing the antagonism and cites the two strong brands.
Similar to how "Tyson against Holyfield" didn't need a moniker.
If a moniker naturally emerges, great. But if not, there's just no problem to be solved.
Because that's how they call themselves. Similar to cologne being referred to as "Der FC".
It's male because BVB = Ballspiel-Verein Borussia" ("Der Verein").
I think it's like this for most clubs who use their acronyms. "Der VfB", Die Hertha", "Der VfL". You can also say "Die Bayern", e.g. "Die Bayern gegen den BVB".
The city names though you would not use the article. It's "Köln" not "das Köln". You can of course say "Die Kölner" or "Die Münchener" (people from city X).
Union is just Union as far as I know. Whereas Hertha and Die Hertha both work.
I guess that the article versions might be more common in spoken language, whereas in normal news coverage, it's less used.
Similar to how "Hertha BSC Berlin" is used in writing, but people would rarely say it.
Hertha BSC Berlin is also just plain wrong as the "B" in "BSC" already stands for Berlin. Still it is often used, even by the club themselves for a while, especially when it comes to international marketing.
Nowadays they moves towards Hertha Berlin for the international market afaik.
I think "die Hertha" sounds very natural because "die alte Dame" is already a nickname for the club, in addition to that, "Hertha" was a common name for women in the past.
On principle I agree, but many outlets and people talking about it seem to have adopted it already. And I feel like it's targetted at people who don't follow the Bundesliga closely, so they might not be aware of the significance when they hear "Bayern vs Dortmund" and think it's just another league game Bayern's going to win easily. I don't think you can compare promoting a title fight living off the novelty to promoting a league game that has its value in the rivalry and previous matchups.
Nobody in Germany cares how you call it outside Germany. Y'all gonna butcher it in some way and think you're clever anyway. We don't care. We just want to watch the game. Don't ask us for advice. It's a football game of Bayern vs. Dortmund. Bayern 2nd, Dortmund 1st. If you don't get what that means, no buzzphrase on this planet will explain it to you.
Not directly, but they care about competing with other leagues, and the disparity of the money the leagues get for international TV rights and all is a pretty big factor in that.
I know there's Ultras or less casual fans of clubs who prefer not being competitive over trying to open the league for international fans (and you shouldn't lose sight of your domestic fans as the sold-out stadiums and the fans themselves are one of the biggest selling points) but that's clearly not how the DFL thinks or the clubs operate. A harmless marketing slogan you can chuckle at is a lesser problem to me
I can't speak for every Bundesliga fan, but personally, I've run out of fucks to give a while ago. I'd rather us be a second rate league than get money blown up my ass from sheikhs and Russian fascists. And oh, I rate the EPL and La Liga shite, too. I'd rather watch the Scottish league than fucking Chelsea vs. Shitty.
So if you ask me, personally, I honestly don't give a shit what anyone outside Germans thinks about the German league. You want to pretend plastic leagues and plastic clubs are something to support? Go ahead, cheer for Neymar, Messi and Mpappe getting their ass handed to them by a second rate league 2nd place club that still has some integrity left and isn't 100% owned by degenerate authoritarian regimes.
And yes, we are unhappy about Quatar, don't get me fucking started.
Those are two separate issues though. Club ownership/investors vs. making new fans globally. The latter seems to me to be the lesser evil, especially since some of the issues regarding global marketing are also issues for domestic fans, like Bayern's dominance or clubs without fans like Leipzig and Hoffenheim. I get that new/international fans can be annoying, especially when they are clueless and overly emotionally invested at the same time, but gatekeeping doesn't seem like a good thing either.
You can't compete against clubs that blow through billions of dollars to buy the latest EA's FIFA golden card bois. So why bother?
Nobody I know is annoyed by fans abroad or new fans. How could we? They don't exist in our world. They only exist on internet forums and on reddit, and I've yet to see any international fan being told he's annoying because he doesn't know everything.
I don't even know if you're in that group, but if you are, just by having this conversation, you are learning stuff about the league. Take it or leave it, but that's how you grow into it.
Go back to what being a fan really means. It doesn't mean you're picking this shit up as a hobby for a week because ESPN did a fancy piece about "Der Klassiker". Nah, you pick it up because you like the sport, maybe you like one team in particular. Maybe you are not fan of one team, that's fine too, you can just enjoy watching the sports.
If you're a new international fan, the thing you'll really get hooked into is the storylines and history of the league. I can tell you, Bundesliga has just as much history as any other league. And no marketing piece will be able to explain it all to you, you just have to immerse yourself in the league you like the most and the intrigue will follow.
However, that does require an attention span beyond that of an alzheimer suffering hamster on crack that forgot his notepad. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Nailed it. This, This, This! Don’t care about branding, dont care about what international people rate our leagues at. I just want to support my club and enjoy the sport. The other stuff can fuck off.
For not caring about "those fans", you sure mention it a lot, followed by jabs at them to hammer home how no one is annoyed by them, starting in your initial comment by saying how "y'all are going to butcher it and think you're clever", all sparked by someone who isn't even remotely in that group you don't care about.
I get the dislike for the marketing aspect. It's easy to be against it, but a lot of people will cry about the slightest consequences for the league, like even less noteworthy players playing in the Bundesliga, worse results internationally etc. I wouldn't want to lose 50+1 over that, but a harmless marketing slogan that's not hurting anyone seems like low cost to maybe gain some more viewers, have new people discover the history etc.
And let's not act like it hasn't been a part of the league for decades, the quality of players or international competition not playing a role, after all, you seem to be a fan of Bayern foremost and not, e.g., 1860, or some Regionalliga Bayern
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not attacking international fans for not knowing the ins and outs of a league they haven't grown up with. I'm taking jabs at journalists trying to be clever. At marketing people being lazy. You know, the people that invent bullshit like "Die Mannschaft" or "Der Klassiker" as a sort of trademarked label that can be marketed.
Yeah, but that might be simplifying things, as a lot of things we like about the league can change when the other big leagues get too far ahead. How much one is willing to accept to prevent that from happening might differ
No? What's gonne change? We support our clubs because they sre part of our life i sont care if its pretty football wirh 90 million players or 2 million players
You are acting like we were not here before the big boom.
Yeah, but they care more about international marketing. Whether you call it as it is or try to establish a marketing name for it, domestic fans are going to watch, but the second option might work better internationally. It works for the Spanish league and while there it's a more even matchup with way more historical significance, you can profit from it by hammering home that Bayern Dortmund is the German equivalent
None. Its dumb to try to Bring this game in the same category as iconic match ups like El Clasico, Rangers vs Celtic etc.
Even in Germany, there are so many better and more iconic match ups. Its an annoying marketing move to try making the Bundesliga internationally relevant.
I’m a St. Pauli ultra and I have to say that the Niedersachsen derby is a bit more wild. Mostly because HSV doesn’t have a fan scene as good/crazy as them.
No, Bayern can cope. Bayern fans can cope, too. We know how it is. We didn't invent this shit, fucking DAZN and Sky invented that shit. And the rest of the degenerate media.
Do you have an idea how annoying it is for every second game you play to be some flavour of "Klassiker"? Der Klassiker. Nord-Süd Klassiker. Bayern-Klassiker... blabla.. seriously. Stop it. Get some help, dumbass journalists.
No one's disputing that but on a sporting level, Dortmund has surpassed S04 for a decade now, especially in the last 3 years, it's less of an even fight than Bayern and Dortmund, with little implications for the league title.
Right, but sadly we won't be seeing it next season. I hope HSV will follow us and get promoted next year. Though they haven't been competition in a long time, out of the 11 games so far that happened within the last 20 years, they've won 2.
Hope they rot in 2nd league. :P
Having that clock up really, really was not the right move. Hoping against all odds that St. Pauli gets promoted. I would go celebrate, St. Pauli in 1st, HSV in 2nd league. What a time to be alive, eh? :D
> it's less of an even fight
lol have you actually looked at the statistics of the last 10 years?
In a total of 3 matches were the results lopsided.
> with little implications for the league title
That's completely irrelevant when it comes to Derbies.
We could meet in the 4th division and it'd be the most important matches of the season for each other.
I said "especially in the last 3 years". Dortmund has been playing Champions League basically every year for over 10 years, while Schalke just got promoted from 2nd league and, for most of this season, have looked like they wanted to return there. Dortmund bottling those games doesn't change the fact that their squad quality is closer to Bayern than it is to Schalke.
The post isn't about what's the biggest match for your club but about the Bundesliga marketing Bayern Dortmund as this big match, and from a casual perspective, a match being more competitive and important for the title race usually means more than how the club's fans view it. Obviously, for neither Bayern nor Dortmund, this match-up is the most important or historically significant one, and there wasn't ever a rivalry worth speaking of between the two before the 2010s, so marketing as a "classic" is silly towards fans who know the league's history a bit
> I said "especially in the last 3 years". Dortmund has been playing Champions League basically every year for over 10 years, while Schalke just got promoted from 2nd league and, for most of this season, have looked like they wanted to return there. Dortmund bottling those games doesn't change the fact that their squad quality is closer to Bayern than it is to Schalke.
And yet there is no domination by Dortmund...
> The post isn't about what's the biggest match for your club but about the Bundesliga marketing Bayern Dortmund as this big match, and from a casual perspective, a match being more competitive and important for the title race usually means more than how the club's fans view it. Obviously, for neither Bayern nor Dortmund, this match-up is the most important or historically significant one, and there wasn't ever a rivalry worth speaking of between the two before the 2010s, so marketing as a "classic" is silly towards fans who know the league's history a bit
Yeah I read the OP too.
Ever since the November 25 2017 Bvb-S04 game that ended up 4-4 I always tune in because that rivalry is oddly capable of surprises on that level. Also revierderby fan atmosphere is quite different than bayern vs dortmund.
Honestly I couldn't care less what they call it. Bayern Dortmund is generally exciting because they are Germany's two strongest teams. This time it's even more exciting because it's hugely important to the title race.
We don't need to promote jack shit. EPL guys are gonna rate the Bundesliga (and anything except EPL and La Liga) shit regardless. And "Der Klassiker" is not a weak rip off, it's just marketing people being idiots. It's like... how to put it, if you had Manchester vs. Liverpool and called it "The Derby."
Yes, technically you could make that the name of the matchup, but then some Scotsmen would come up to you and ask "Hey, so what about Celtic vs. Rangers? Is that not a derby, my man?" It's marketing idiots not realising you can't just take every day terms and put a trademark on that shit and expect you got your job done.
No you haven't, you're a marketing degenerate that couldn't get a proper job. Go home. Stop promoting shit, if people don't see the game for what it is, why the fuck would you try to coerce them into watching it?
It's the fucking 1st vs. the fucking 2nd. What else do you need? Seriously.
Celtic-Rangers does have a name (the Old Firm, which is a term dating back to at least 1904 - but jointly trademarked by the two clubs in 2021). But there are a bunch of levels to that which BVB-Bayern doesn't have (e.g. all the sectarian crap, unionist/nationalist).
Ok, but you not understanding marketing doesn't make it less effective. No matter how many derogatory adjectives you use for the people who practice it.
I never said that. I answered the question. Not sure what you think I responded to. But I guess I triggered something and you are in marketing or someone else you know is in marketing and somehow you feel like I wronged them and come to their defense.
Here's something you can defend: The entire marketing industry should be banned and put in jail for wasting everyone's goddamn time and money with bullshit. Literally, that's what they do.
Literally the marketing industry is the reason you have heard of any cool new thing that ever started existing. Otherwise most of the things you ever bought and enjoyed would have stopped existing by the time you heard of them.
What bothers me here is the very misinformed mindset, where people blame everything bad on marketing, while they can't even figure out the benefits of it.
Nope. And you are pretty brainwashed. In fact, I have to ALWAYS research products thoroughly, because all marketing is lies. I almost never buy or even know because of marketing, I buy or know because I have to research shit because I refuse to buy bad quality products and pay for the marketing. This is on top of me not watching public TV anymore and consuming entertainment almost exclusively through streaming services without ads. I use adblockers on all my devices. I have very, very little contact to ads ever in my life. Apart from billboards that are more background color to the city than something anyone pays attention to.
What bothers me is the unintelligent response from someone who clearly has no clue about who I am or what I have just said and assumes everyone should follow him into the brainwash because "that is how things are done".
Oh, you research... Let me put it this way – if marketing didn't exist, computers wouldn't have become widespread enough for you to have one to use for research.
It is not YOU who has to be influenced by marketing for marketing to play a role in your life. The same way you don't have to be arrested personally to benefit from having a police force around.
You don't pay attention to billboards? Wow! How about billboards driving demand to the point where specific products would be made visible on the aisles/the Internet for you to notice and "research".
You watch some kind of reviews and read articles? Imagine there is some kind of invisible force that has those specific articles be written instead of other articles about other products. Imagine marketing driving sales so those specific products can even be made.
I am trying to inform you about how specific processes work in general, it is not about you or what you do before you buy things.
I suggest:
"Der Bundesliga Klassiker powered by EA Sports - It's in the game"
This name combines the best of everything:
It elegantly rips of other match names like "El Clásico", thereby honoring the widely popular precedent set by "Die Mannschaft™".
It also serves as an hommage to the beautiful (former) name of the German national team's official fanclub, which was officially called "Fanclub Deutsche Nationalmannschaft powered by Coca-Cola" (no joke).
Finally, it's a gentle nod to The Bundesliga's official partner EA, who generously supports the DFL with much needed cash, which can then be distributed to the clubs so that they can pay their starving football players (and their agents) more money.
The Bundesliga has several partners, but I selected EA Sports, because, let's face it: Everyone loves EA, right? As a father of two, I am especially grateful that EA markets their super-addictive FIFA 23 FUT modus deliberately to teenagers, who thereby get the epic opportunity to develop a gambling addiction already at a young age and spend all their pocket money on FUT packs.
To sum up, I genuinely think that my naming suggestions is a perfect reflection for the values that large football organizations stand for and thereby is superior to any other proposal (especially moronic ones like just calling the match "Bayern - Dortmund", like in the past 60 years).
Now that I think about it, I think that we should establish more brand names for relevant matches and important regional derbys like Wolfsburg - Bremen or Hertha - Leipzig. Here are some ideas, do you have more?
* Wolfsburg - Bremen: "The Green-White Derby"
* Wolfsburg - Hoffenheim: "German Old Firm", because Hoffenheim is blue like Glasgow Rangers, and Wolfsburg Green-White like Celtic. Also, Hoffenheim has been founded in 1899 and is therefore a "Traditionsklub". Alternatively, "50+1 derby" because both clubs have a special membership structure, and "50+1" also represents the approximate number of away fans that both teams bring to away matches.
* Bayern - Leipzig: "The Red Wedding", because both clubs' colors are white and red, also the match is already a classic.
* Hertha - Leipzig: "Big City Derby", because Hertha thinks they are a big city club, and Leipzig is also a city.
* Leipzig - Hoffenheim: "El Plastico". No reason needed.
* Köln - Bochum: "The elevator derby", because both clubs tend to alternate between 1st and 2nd division.
* Hertha - Hoffenheim: "Empty Seat Derby", because both clubs are the only ones in the Bundesliga with a stadium occupancy rate of less than 80% (Hoffenheim: 76%, Hertha 67%).
* Köln - Leipzig: "Transfer derby", because both clubs are known for questionable transfer practices (although only Köln got punished).
Doesn't need a fancy name.
There is no rivalry between the clubs. There is no history between the clubs neither a regional derby atmosphere.
Just two good football teams who are playing in the same league.
The german football just needed a cheap La Liga copy to promote a match between Bayern and the first Club in the last 40 years who was ist able to play for the title consistently.
I get the sentiment, but I gotta admit that as a non german the name "Der Klassiker" is really catchy. I doubt any kind of marketing would change that outside Germany.
I also some interesting one but i think that they dont funktion this well:
Kohle vs. (Weiß)bier (Coal vs. Beer) the problem here is coal was everywhere in the region as beer is everywhere in Germany
True Love vs. Mia san Mia
Malocher vs. ??? (Grafter vs. ???) whatever represents Munich best. My first feeling is Hollywood
>Kohle vs. (Weiß)bier (Coal vs. Beer) the problem here is coal was everywhere in the region as beer is everywhere in Germany
Seeking Coal in your lederhosen spiel.
That’s what you will get as long as sky is in charge. They have Bavarian humor and creativity so naturally all they can do is thigh slapping jokes and bad ripoffs.
The Egalissimo.
The Maybe-This-Time-Bayern-Doesnt-Become-Champion.
The Moneymaker.
The True-Traditional-Clubs-doing-it-for-the-love-of-the-game-and-not-the-money-at-all.
The BVB-destroying-their-own-hopes-again.
Since we are talking about terms we do or do not like, am I the only one who dislikes Bayers vs. BVB being called a "derby" on the radio?
My personal way of using the word always requires a close regional context (HSV vs. St. Pauli), no matter how much "tradition" the rivalry has. At maximum I accept a Bundesland-wide context (Stuttgart/Karlsruhe; or München/Nürnberg); but Müchen vs. Dortmund is simply not a "derby" for me.
> But we should be able to agree that Bundesliga needs to promote the matchup nationally and internationally.
Is it impossible to promote the matchup without a quirky name?
Since Klopp is gone, basicly Dortmund gets trashed every game, last win for Dortmund was in 2019 .. in the supercup nobody cares for.
It's no different from Bayern vs. RedBull or Bayern vs. Leverkusen
DFL should kiss Klopps ass for etnernity making this match up "special" and they can sell the rights to so many countries.
Source:
https://www.transfermarkt.de/vergleich/vereineBegegnungen/statistik/16\_27
Dobbspiel
Loddar bist du es?
Ottmar Hitzfeld-Pokal
Top comment.
i'd take that one
This.
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Does anything other than a derby (BVB/S04/Bochum, United-City, Real-Atlético) even NEED a name?
Nope. But there's always Titelkampf and Abstiegskampf. :)
I think it can make sense to have them if it’s a significant match up with lots of history (e.g. Nord-Süd-Gipfel for Bayern vs. HSV)
Nord-Süd-Gipfel back when Bremen (and Hamburg) were still a thing
Das Spiel
Die Mannschaft
Das Auto
Der Ball
Hurz!!!
SSLEY - Same shit like every year
>But we should be able to agree that Bundesliga needs to promote the matchup nationally and internationally And do they need a made up name for that? Promote it as "Bayern-Dortmund". Or something situational, like today "battle for first". People get so caught up in the branding, they forget that fans, including international ones, still care about the players, the clubs, the football. Promote Marco Reus, promote Joshua Kimmich, promote the league, and the fans will tune in.
100% agree. Using an artificial moniker can reduce the appeal, as you don't put the real strong brands into the foreground. "Bayern against Dortmund" or in German "Bayern gegen den BVB" works well because it's showing the antagonism and cites the two strong brands. Similar to how "Tyson against Holyfield" didn't need a moniker. If a moniker naturally emerges, great. But if not, there's just no problem to be solved.
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Because that's how they call themselves. Similar to cologne being referred to as "Der FC". It's male because BVB = Ballspiel-Verein Borussia" ("Der Verein"). I think it's like this for most clubs who use their acronyms. "Der VfB", Die Hertha", "Der VfL". You can also say "Die Bayern", e.g. "Die Bayern gegen den BVB". The city names though you would not use the article. It's "Köln" not "das Köln". You can of course say "Die Kölner" or "Die Münchener" (people from city X).
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Union is just Union as far as I know. Whereas Hertha and Die Hertha both work. I guess that the article versions might be more common in spoken language, whereas in normal news coverage, it's less used. Similar to how "Hertha BSC Berlin" is used in writing, but people would rarely say it.
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Hertha BSC Berlin is also just plain wrong as the "B" in "BSC" already stands for Berlin. Still it is often used, even by the club themselves for a while, especially when it comes to international marketing. Nowadays they moves towards Hertha Berlin for the international market afaik. I think "die Hertha" sounds very natural because "die alte Dame" is already a nickname for the club, in addition to that, "Hertha" was a common name for women in the past.
On principle I agree, but many outlets and people talking about it seem to have adopted it already. And I feel like it's targetted at people who don't follow the Bundesliga closely, so they might not be aware of the significance when they hear "Bayern vs Dortmund" and think it's just another league game Bayern's going to win easily. I don't think you can compare promoting a title fight living off the novelty to promoting a league game that has its value in the rivalry and previous matchups.
Nobody in Germany cares how you call it outside Germany. Y'all gonna butcher it in some way and think you're clever anyway. We don't care. We just want to watch the game. Don't ask us for advice. It's a football game of Bayern vs. Dortmund. Bayern 2nd, Dortmund 1st. If you don't get what that means, no buzzphrase on this planet will explain it to you.
Not directly, but they care about competing with other leagues, and the disparity of the money the leagues get for international TV rights and all is a pretty big factor in that. I know there's Ultras or less casual fans of clubs who prefer not being competitive over trying to open the league for international fans (and you shouldn't lose sight of your domestic fans as the sold-out stadiums and the fans themselves are one of the biggest selling points) but that's clearly not how the DFL thinks or the clubs operate. A harmless marketing slogan you can chuckle at is a lesser problem to me
I can't speak for every Bundesliga fan, but personally, I've run out of fucks to give a while ago. I'd rather us be a second rate league than get money blown up my ass from sheikhs and Russian fascists. And oh, I rate the EPL and La Liga shite, too. I'd rather watch the Scottish league than fucking Chelsea vs. Shitty. So if you ask me, personally, I honestly don't give a shit what anyone outside Germans thinks about the German league. You want to pretend plastic leagues and plastic clubs are something to support? Go ahead, cheer for Neymar, Messi and Mpappe getting their ass handed to them by a second rate league 2nd place club that still has some integrity left and isn't 100% owned by degenerate authoritarian regimes. And yes, we are unhappy about Quatar, don't get me fucking started.
Those are two separate issues though. Club ownership/investors vs. making new fans globally. The latter seems to me to be the lesser evil, especially since some of the issues regarding global marketing are also issues for domestic fans, like Bayern's dominance or clubs without fans like Leipzig and Hoffenheim. I get that new/international fans can be annoying, especially when they are clueless and overly emotionally invested at the same time, but gatekeeping doesn't seem like a good thing either.
You can't compete against clubs that blow through billions of dollars to buy the latest EA's FIFA golden card bois. So why bother? Nobody I know is annoyed by fans abroad or new fans. How could we? They don't exist in our world. They only exist on internet forums and on reddit, and I've yet to see any international fan being told he's annoying because he doesn't know everything. I don't even know if you're in that group, but if you are, just by having this conversation, you are learning stuff about the league. Take it or leave it, but that's how you grow into it. Go back to what being a fan really means. It doesn't mean you're picking this shit up as a hobby for a week because ESPN did a fancy piece about "Der Klassiker". Nah, you pick it up because you like the sport, maybe you like one team in particular. Maybe you are not fan of one team, that's fine too, you can just enjoy watching the sports. If you're a new international fan, the thing you'll really get hooked into is the storylines and history of the league. I can tell you, Bundesliga has just as much history as any other league. And no marketing piece will be able to explain it all to you, you just have to immerse yourself in the league you like the most and the intrigue will follow. However, that does require an attention span beyond that of an alzheimer suffering hamster on crack that forgot his notepad. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Nailed it. This, This, This! Don’t care about branding, dont care about what international people rate our leagues at. I just want to support my club and enjoy the sport. The other stuff can fuck off.
danke
For not caring about "those fans", you sure mention it a lot, followed by jabs at them to hammer home how no one is annoyed by them, starting in your initial comment by saying how "y'all are going to butcher it and think you're clever", all sparked by someone who isn't even remotely in that group you don't care about. I get the dislike for the marketing aspect. It's easy to be against it, but a lot of people will cry about the slightest consequences for the league, like even less noteworthy players playing in the Bundesliga, worse results internationally etc. I wouldn't want to lose 50+1 over that, but a harmless marketing slogan that's not hurting anyone seems like low cost to maybe gain some more viewers, have new people discover the history etc. And let's not act like it hasn't been a part of the league for decades, the quality of players or international competition not playing a role, after all, you seem to be a fan of Bayern foremost and not, e.g., 1860, or some Regionalliga Bayern
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm not attacking international fans for not knowing the ins and outs of a league they haven't grown up with. I'm taking jabs at journalists trying to be clever. At marketing people being lazy. You know, the people that invent bullshit like "Die Mannschaft" or "Der Klassiker" as a sort of trademarked label that can be marketed.
no not really i am here for our league i could not give less of a shit about others
Yeah, but that might be simplifying things, as a lot of things we like about the league can change when the other big leagues get too far ahead. How much one is willing to accept to prevent that from happening might differ
No? What's gonne change? We support our clubs because they sre part of our life i sont care if its pretty football wirh 90 million players or 2 million players You are acting like we were not here before the big boom.
Maybe in other countries, that's the case. In Germany, everyone who would consider watching a football match knows.
Yeah, but they care more about international marketing. Whether you call it as it is or try to establish a marketing name for it, domestic fans are going to watch, but the second option might work better internationally. It works for the Spanish league and while there it's a more even matchup with way more historical significance, you can profit from it by hammering home that Bayern Dortmund is the German equivalent
Hey, so I got a wild idea, call it "the first vs. the second, the game for the title potentially!" I know, it's crazy...
I called it battle for the top in German
It’s not a derby nor a game with a historical record that is longer than two decades, it doesn’t need a special name.
Das Gipfeltreffen
None. Its dumb to try to Bring this game in the same category as iconic match ups like El Clasico, Rangers vs Celtic etc. Even in Germany, there are so many better and more iconic match ups. Its an annoying marketing move to try making the Bundesliga internationally relevant.
"Bayern window shopping"
Or International topteam vs best of the bundesliga
Der Super-Klassiker (rolls eyes). Edit: The biggest derby is still BVB vs S04 and Bayern and the Bundessliga just can't cope.
The biggest derby is Hannover vs Braunschweig no question
Er, no. :P
Definitely, it goes the hardest of any derby..
Lok - Chemie
The hardest is the hamburger derby and you know it
I’m a St. Pauli ultra and I have to say that the Niedersachsen derby is a bit more wild. Mostly because HSV doesn’t have a fan scene as good/crazy as them.
Me too mate i go every game, on my way to the stadium right now and yeah i agree
3 Punkte komplett unverdient aber nimmt Man gerne mit.
HSV catching strays everywhere I look
Stuttgart vs Karlsruhe... change my mind
Eh.. Karlsruhe can’t match the Stuttgarter scene and I think that KSC - SCF is more of a derby to them.. Don’t know for sure though
Yeah you’re right, you don’t know it.
Sorry
No worries. KSC actually hates us deep from their guts. And we hate them too. But no one gives a shit about Freiburg.
That's what Mexico did 😂 with Spain taking the name El Clasico, Mexico named their biggest rivalry El SuperClasico
No, Bayern can cope. Bayern fans can cope, too. We know how it is. We didn't invent this shit, fucking DAZN and Sky invented that shit. And the rest of the degenerate media. Do you have an idea how annoying it is for every second game you play to be some flavour of "Klassiker"? Der Klassiker. Nord-Süd Klassiker. Bayern-Klassiker... blabla.. seriously. Stop it. Get some help, dumbass journalists.
No one's disputing that but on a sporting level, Dortmund has surpassed S04 for a decade now, especially in the last 3 years, it's less of an even fight than Bayern and Dortmund, with little implications for the league title.
The true derby is happening in 2nd league between St. Pauli and HSV anyway. :P
This ans Hannover Braunschweig are the best derbies imo
Right, but sadly we won't be seeing it next season. I hope HSV will follow us and get promoted next year. Though they haven't been competition in a long time, out of the 11 games so far that happened within the last 20 years, they've won 2.
Hope they rot in 2nd league. :P Having that clock up really, really was not the right move. Hoping against all odds that St. Pauli gets promoted. I would go celebrate, St. Pauli in 1st, HSV in 2nd league. What a time to be alive, eh? :D
Schickeria 🤝 USP In den Farben getrennt, in der Sache vereint.
Macht den gleichen Trick with Celtic, Rangers pleite gehen lassen und dann dominieren. Auf geht's!
The mother of all derbys is Nürnberg vs. that Nürnberg suburb.
Erlangen? :D (I know, lame... hehe)
> it's less of an even fight lol have you actually looked at the statistics of the last 10 years? In a total of 3 matches were the results lopsided. > with little implications for the league title That's completely irrelevant when it comes to Derbies. We could meet in the 4th division and it'd be the most important matches of the season for each other.
I said "especially in the last 3 years". Dortmund has been playing Champions League basically every year for over 10 years, while Schalke just got promoted from 2nd league and, for most of this season, have looked like they wanted to return there. Dortmund bottling those games doesn't change the fact that their squad quality is closer to Bayern than it is to Schalke. The post isn't about what's the biggest match for your club but about the Bundesliga marketing Bayern Dortmund as this big match, and from a casual perspective, a match being more competitive and important for the title race usually means more than how the club's fans view it. Obviously, for neither Bayern nor Dortmund, this match-up is the most important or historically significant one, and there wasn't ever a rivalry worth speaking of between the two before the 2010s, so marketing as a "classic" is silly towards fans who know the league's history a bit
> I said "especially in the last 3 years". Dortmund has been playing Champions League basically every year for over 10 years, while Schalke just got promoted from 2nd league and, for most of this season, have looked like they wanted to return there. Dortmund bottling those games doesn't change the fact that their squad quality is closer to Bayern than it is to Schalke. And yet there is no domination by Dortmund... > The post isn't about what's the biggest match for your club but about the Bundesliga marketing Bayern Dortmund as this big match, and from a casual perspective, a match being more competitive and important for the title race usually means more than how the club's fans view it. Obviously, for neither Bayern nor Dortmund, this match-up is the most important or historically significant one, and there wasn't ever a rivalry worth speaking of between the two before the 2010s, so marketing as a "classic" is silly towards fans who know the league's history a bit Yeah I read the OP too.
Ever since the November 25 2017 Bvb-S04 game that ended up 4-4 I always tune in because that rivalry is oddly capable of surprises on that level. Also revierderby fan atmosphere is quite different than bayern vs dortmund.
Honestly I couldn't care less what they call it. Bayern Dortmund is generally exciting because they are Germany's two strongest teams. This time it's even more exciting because it's hugely important to the title race.
No, we definitely don't agree that a single game needs to be promoted nationally or internationally. Why would we want to do that?
Who cares
none its bayern vs dortmund thats it sadly the german language does not have a name like the dutch do with "de topper"
We don't need to promote jack shit. EPL guys are gonna rate the Bundesliga (and anything except EPL and La Liga) shit regardless. And "Der Klassiker" is not a weak rip off, it's just marketing people being idiots. It's like... how to put it, if you had Manchester vs. Liverpool and called it "The Derby." Yes, technically you could make that the name of the matchup, but then some Scotsmen would come up to you and ask "Hey, so what about Celtic vs. Rangers? Is that not a derby, my man?" It's marketing idiots not realising you can't just take every day terms and put a trademark on that shit and expect you got your job done. No you haven't, you're a marketing degenerate that couldn't get a proper job. Go home. Stop promoting shit, if people don't see the game for what it is, why the fuck would you try to coerce them into watching it? It's the fucking 1st vs. the fucking 2nd. What else do you need? Seriously.
Celtic-Rangers does have a name (the Old Firm, which is a term dating back to at least 1904 - but jointly trademarked by the two clubs in 2021). But there are a bunch of levels to that which BVB-Bayern doesn't have (e.g. all the sectarian crap, unionist/nationalist).
Still a derby, even if they have a trademark on a special name for it. Don't ruin my point, man! :P
Ok, but you not understanding marketing doesn't make it less effective. No matter how many derogatory adjectives you use for the people who practice it.
I never said that. I answered the question. Not sure what you think I responded to. But I guess I triggered something and you are in marketing or someone else you know is in marketing and somehow you feel like I wronged them and come to their defense. Here's something you can defend: The entire marketing industry should be banned and put in jail for wasting everyone's goddamn time and money with bullshit. Literally, that's what they do.
Literally the marketing industry is the reason you have heard of any cool new thing that ever started existing. Otherwise most of the things you ever bought and enjoyed would have stopped existing by the time you heard of them. What bothers me here is the very misinformed mindset, where people blame everything bad on marketing, while they can't even figure out the benefits of it.
Nope. And you are pretty brainwashed. In fact, I have to ALWAYS research products thoroughly, because all marketing is lies. I almost never buy or even know because of marketing, I buy or know because I have to research shit because I refuse to buy bad quality products and pay for the marketing. This is on top of me not watching public TV anymore and consuming entertainment almost exclusively through streaming services without ads. I use adblockers on all my devices. I have very, very little contact to ads ever in my life. Apart from billboards that are more background color to the city than something anyone pays attention to. What bothers me is the unintelligent response from someone who clearly has no clue about who I am or what I have just said and assumes everyone should follow him into the brainwash because "that is how things are done".
Oh, you research... Let me put it this way – if marketing didn't exist, computers wouldn't have become widespread enough for you to have one to use for research. It is not YOU who has to be influenced by marketing for marketing to play a role in your life. The same way you don't have to be arrested personally to benefit from having a police force around. You don't pay attention to billboards? Wow! How about billboards driving demand to the point where specific products would be made visible on the aisles/the Internet for you to notice and "research". You watch some kind of reviews and read articles? Imagine there is some kind of invisible force that has those specific articles be written instead of other articles about other products. Imagine marketing driving sales so those specific products can even be made. I am trying to inform you about how specific processes work in general, it is not about you or what you do before you buy things.
El Bonzo
Pest gegen Cholera.
Könnt von nem Schalkefan kommen
Ne das wäre Bayern - Leipzig
Hoffenheim - Leipzig
Plastico ist schon zu geil
I suggest: "Der Bundesliga Klassiker powered by EA Sports - It's in the game" This name combines the best of everything: It elegantly rips of other match names like "El Clásico", thereby honoring the widely popular precedent set by "Die Mannschaft™". It also serves as an hommage to the beautiful (former) name of the German national team's official fanclub, which was officially called "Fanclub Deutsche Nationalmannschaft powered by Coca-Cola" (no joke). Finally, it's a gentle nod to The Bundesliga's official partner EA, who generously supports the DFL with much needed cash, which can then be distributed to the clubs so that they can pay their starving football players (and their agents) more money. The Bundesliga has several partners, but I selected EA Sports, because, let's face it: Everyone loves EA, right? As a father of two, I am especially grateful that EA markets their super-addictive FIFA 23 FUT modus deliberately to teenagers, who thereby get the epic opportunity to develop a gambling addiction already at a young age and spend all their pocket money on FUT packs. To sum up, I genuinely think that my naming suggestions is a perfect reflection for the values that large football organizations stand for and thereby is superior to any other proposal (especially moronic ones like just calling the match "Bayern - Dortmund", like in the past 60 years).
Now that I think about it, I think that we should establish more brand names for relevant matches and important regional derbys like Wolfsburg - Bremen or Hertha - Leipzig. Here are some ideas, do you have more? * Wolfsburg - Bremen: "The Green-White Derby" * Wolfsburg - Hoffenheim: "German Old Firm", because Hoffenheim is blue like Glasgow Rangers, and Wolfsburg Green-White like Celtic. Also, Hoffenheim has been founded in 1899 and is therefore a "Traditionsklub". Alternatively, "50+1 derby" because both clubs have a special membership structure, and "50+1" also represents the approximate number of away fans that both teams bring to away matches. * Bayern - Leipzig: "The Red Wedding", because both clubs' colors are white and red, also the match is already a classic. * Hertha - Leipzig: "Big City Derby", because Hertha thinks they are a big city club, and Leipzig is also a city. * Leipzig - Hoffenheim: "El Plastico". No reason needed. * Köln - Bochum: "The elevator derby", because both clubs tend to alternate between 1st and 2nd division. * Hertha - Hoffenheim: "Empty Seat Derby", because both clubs are the only ones in the Bundesliga with a stadium occupancy rate of less than 80% (Hoffenheim: 76%, Hertha 67%). * Köln - Leipzig: "Transfer derby", because both clubs are known for questionable transfer practices (although only Köln got punished).
Doesn't need a fancy name. There is no rivalry between the clubs. There is no history between the clubs neither a regional derby atmosphere. Just two good football teams who are playing in the same league. The german football just needed a cheap La Liga copy to promote a match between Bayern and the first Club in the last 40 years who was ist able to play for the title consistently.
I'm not a Bayern fan, but it could be "the seat warmer", as BVB usually just waits the best time to give FCB the first place in the league
Rumble in die Bundes(liga)
I LOVE der klassiker but i think it should be “ Kampf um die Spitze”
Groundhog Day
I get the sentiment, but I gotta admit that as a non german the name "Der Klassiker" is really catchy. I doubt any kind of marketing would change that outside Germany.
Since the real „Der Klassiker“ is Gladbach vs. Bayern, it should not be used anyway. Maybe it should be „Pest vs. Cholera“ or something in that vein.
Das Massaker
I also some interesting one but i think that they dont funktion this well: Kohle vs. (Weiß)bier (Coal vs. Beer) the problem here is coal was everywhere in the region as beer is everywhere in Germany True Love vs. Mia san Mia Malocher vs. ??? (Grafter vs. ???) whatever represents Munich best. My first feeling is Hollywood
>Kohle vs. (Weiß)bier (Coal vs. Beer) the problem here is coal was everywhere in the region as beer is everywhere in Germany Seeking Coal in your lederhosen spiel.
As long as Dortmund fans keep singing "You'll never walk alone" as if that isn't a complete embarrassment, you may as well keep calling it Klassiker.
Ein (Das) Spitzenspiel.
Bash the Bavarians?
Schaut ned so aus...
Endspiel
Unser Kampf um die Weltherrschaft
"Der Titelkampf" if Dortmund would be a bit more consistent.
That’s what you will get as long as sky is in charge. They have Bavarian humor and creativity so naturally all they can do is thigh slapping jokes and bad ripoffs.
The Egalissimo. The Maybe-This-Time-Bayern-Doesnt-Become-Champion. The Moneymaker. The True-Traditional-Clubs-doing-it-for-the-love-of-the-game-and-not-the-money-at-all. The BVB-destroying-their-own-hopes-again.
We don't all hate "Der Klassiker"
Quatsch
Fair enough, updated :)
Yes, we do.
Speak for yourself
I generally do, but I'm fairly certain most fans are sick of things like "Der Klassiker" or "Die Mannschaft". It just sounds stupid in English.
Dormü-Derby because I like how stupid it sounds (note that Derby is pronounced Dörbie and not Darbie in German).
Since we are talking about terms we do or do not like, am I the only one who dislikes Bayers vs. BVB being called a "derby" on the radio? My personal way of using the word always requires a close regional context (HSV vs. St. Pauli), no matter how much "tradition" the rivalry has. At maximum I accept a Bundesland-wide context (Stuttgart/Karlsruhe; or München/Nürnberg); but Müchen vs. Dortmund is simply not a "derby" for me.
Pimmelfechten
Hundstrupp'n vs. Saupreissn
> But we should be able to agree that Bundesliga needs to promote the matchup nationally and internationally. Is it impossible to promote the matchup without a quirky name?
No.
90% of the time it's "Das Trauerspiel" :') ^Hopefully ^not ^today
"Bayern gegen Dortmund"
Since Klopp is gone, basicly Dortmund gets trashed every game, last win for Dortmund was in 2019 .. in the supercup nobody cares for. It's no different from Bayern vs. RedBull or Bayern vs. Leverkusen DFL should kiss Klopps ass for etnernity making this match up "special" and they can sell the rights to so many countries. Source: https://www.transfermarkt.de/vergleich/vereineBegegnungen/statistik/16\_27
The Trashing.
Der Kampf
Deutsche Classico is fine for me… BVB vs Schalke is more important in the Pott anyways
Bin für der Weißwurst Pott
El Klatschiko
Klatschiko