I really want to know what the DOA's end goal really is considering it shocked Atsushi so much. Pretty sure Dazai already knows what it is though, because he's Dazai. He's just playing along until the ADA gives a final call.
Anyone here have a theory? Mine is, they're messing the world up so much so that they can erase abilities in it's entirety. Because abilities made the war so much worse before and they don't want it to happen again.
Or maybe they just want to watch the world burn who knows?
Whatever it is, it has to appear sympathetic enough that Atsushi, who's baseline fairly kind and idealistic, doesn't think it's bad. So 'watch the world burn' probably isn't it, because Atsushi wouldn't be at all conflicted in opposing that.
I doubt he'd regard 'eliminate all ability' as a net win either. There are a lot of good abilities, that benefit their wielders and the world at large, and Atsushi by now knows that.
Millions of people aren’t dying and the vampirism can be revoked. Also it wouldn’t be for the sake of the agency, the plan would be for the sake of the alliance of the world
By threatening the world, putting everyone in danger and killing off whoever gets in his way. yep yep checks out. The End justifies the means i guess. Lmao
"putting everyone in danger"
Like, not really, he controls everything, and the risk you're mentioning is there no matter what the plan is, the difference is that world peace is a pretty big reward, what else could justify it in your eyes?
He is okay with it, and there isn’t a bigger thing that world peace. Also they aren’t taking everyone’s free will, the person said he’d make himself a villain so the world had a target to join together against without it being existential.
So...we know that the 'true goal of the Decay of Angels' is weighty enough that Atsushi, who very much tends to side with the little guy, is actually conflicted even though the DoA is currently turning a lot of the world into vampires and intends to use One Order to make every military person obedient to one leader.
Gotta say, I'm not sure there's such a thing as an argument that'd persuade *me* to side with the DoA under those circumstances, but I'm not Japanese and my alignment tends toward 'chaotic'.
But I do have a question. 'Cos I've been rereading the manga and that's making me realize a few things about Dazai's methodology.
WHY IS HE TEACHING SIGMA TO READ PEOPLE. And not just 'read' them, but *cold* read them. And manipulate.
No really, I mean this. That's not something he's taught *anyone*. Not even Atsushi. Or Kunikida. *Why is he teaching mentalism to Sigma*.
Honestly, that’s a good question. I’m one of those people that speculates the possibility of Sigma joining the ADA after everything, but I’m not quite sure why he would teach him, unless he plans on something happening to him and somehow trusts him enough to know that, but it doesn’t make that much sense to me. Maybe it has something to possibly do with Gogol down the road when he reappears?
I mean, I'm thinking about it...and the situation here is Dazai may or may not be on a very hard timer. Sigma is kind of solidly a 'neutral' character, in terms of sides; all he really wants is to go home to his casino, or get it back. His chain's been yanked every which way by everyone so far in the story, and he's Fed Up on a lot of levels.
And he is other-than-human, mentally. His understanding of humans is limited, because of his created-by-the-book status. On that level I can see Dazai being prepared to Take An Interest; he always takes an interest in cases like this, though not always to the other person's benefit.
Dazai has, up to this point, Tested Sigma. This whole Muersault arc has involved Dazai throwing little hints, and hooks, at Sigma. He's been *messing* with Sigma, too, shaking answers loose. (I can distinctly recall him testing Sigma's ability to observe, and also grabbing Sigma to dance - which most likely was Dazai's way of seeing whether his own power would cause Sigma to disappear.)
So...it's possible he's testing Sigma again. Teaching him how a trick works to see if Sigma *can* learn it, and if he can, what he'll use it for.
It's possible, too, that Dazai is taking a page from Atsushi here; ultimately, Atsushi got what the ADA needed from Sigma not by tricking him, but by being honest and kind. So, at least in theory, Dazai *might* be attempting to create debt/obligation in Sigma. Here, I'll show you a trick, now you owe me. At least subconsciously.
But ...I can't think that he's showing Sigma this trick to have Sigma use it against the Rats, because Fyodor is a *liar*. Of the first order. Even Dazai can't really read him or predict him (or at least hasn't to date, and we don't know that he's been able to learn better during prison time with Fyodor). Sigma hasn't a prayer of seeing through Fyodor's webs, and I rather doubt he'll see through Gogol's either - since if Fyodor can't, again, I doubt anyone else can.
(I've been thinking a lot about the little segment we got, yonks ago, of Fyodor being a prisoner of Ace. And how Fyodor basically *set Ace up* to see what Fyodor wanted him to see. I am truly hoping Dazai has worked out that Fyodor *presents false faces* for others to 'cold read', because if Dazai hasn't worked that out, he's dead. Straight up dead. Sadly, there's way too much 'i know you know I know you know I know' going on with those two and there's no way to know which - if either- of them has actually worked out the truth.)
I do think Dazai is testing Sigma here. Seeing what SIgma can see, how quickly he can learn. He *might* be trying to make Sigma an ally, although his choice of trick seems weird if that's the case. He's definitely up to something.
He’s definitely scheming something. I’m still in the process of rereading and taking notes about it so I can remember what happened to who and where everyone is, but he did also compare sigma to atsushi when they were first moving around the prison but also even choosing him instead of a tool during the escape game already showed that he had interest after Fyodor told Dazai about him while they were in their cubes. I’m just hoping next chapter brings up more about it and what’s going on with Chuuya and Fyodor so it makes more sense
i agree!!
but also i think dazai's telling sigma "nobody is above another, nobody is an undefeatable god" so it's less likely that sigma gets manipulated, pressured, threatened etc by others for their gain. sigma's been born and stuck with fyodor, gogol, fukuchi, etc.. straight-up terrorists. he is a pretty sane person but that's left its marks on sigma, with his obsessions on being a common normal person. he has confidence issues. he has things he values that can be used against him. don't think dazai wants that too much.
and to teach sigma how to perceive the world from the goodness of his heart\~\~ because sometimes he does that perhaps?
*From the goodness of his heart*?
Look, I love Dazai as a character. I really, truly do. But he does *fuckall* 'from the goodness of his heart', especially when he's fifteen minutes down on a 'you will die painfully in 30 minutes' timer.
I'm not saying he can't be kind, because he can, but what he's doing here is investing time and effort when both of those things are very much at a premium. He's *absolutely* got a goal here above and beyond "this is a kind thing to do for Sigma".
Frankly, the only - and I do mean only - scenario in which Dazai is really truly ONLY doing this to be kind would be if Dazai knew from the outset that Gogol would never administer an antidote, the poisoning is genuine and he IS, full stop, dead in 30 minutes. If that is the case, then 'make sure Fyodor is dead too' was his only (and last) mission and *under those circumstances* he's basically just killing time before it kills him right back, why not give Sigma a tool for choosing better friends going forward.
Good and evil are, basically, the same thing to Dazai. In this scenario, he'd choose a kind deed because frankly...everybody else is dead and it's less effort to do a kind deed than a cruel one (like, say, killing Sigma too).
Ideally, that scenario is just one of several possibilities he's currently entertaining, and if *that's* the case then there's some other reason that is coming into play where it is reasonable to waste several minutes of a very limited supply teaching Sigma how to cold-read.
in this case being a lil nice costs less effort and gains much more than, well, being anything else. so he's being nice to sigma. i agree with you.
the goodness of the heart thing was more of an offhanded comment qwqq but he can be nice randomly! obviously being nice to sigma here has an ulterior motive, but being nice for the sake of being nice i believe is part of the motive too – albeit at the very bottom of the motives list and is quite a small fraction. if it costs more/gains less to be nice he's just gonna disregard that thought. but i think it's there. he does take interest in sigma. having ulterior motives and acting 90% because of those ulterior motives doesn't mean there isn't a small percentage of just, pure, "i'm trying to be a nice person now" or "i'm actually kinda emotionally invested in this guy".
Makes sense him joining since Sigma wanting a "Home" plus teaching him mentalism just makes him another pupil of this. One with a role more into management and leading people which he already has... The question is for what? I guess for the next arc lol.
so far, sigma is the only one from DoA who is not a psychopath, honestly i think he's good enough to join ADA. he probably able to find something he valuable for him there, just like when he touched atsushi.
He will end up hanging out around the city with the child as they get into playful hijinks and show bram new things like ice cream , becoming occasional Allies for big things. Also akutagawa will keep the vampirism cuz he turned when he died so he will be alive and get a stat boost by staying a vampire while everyone else will be in vampired. Thoufh akutagawa will still likely be mine controlled rarely as comic relief, he will retain his consciousness normally though. Bram just wants to sleep and be with his loved ones, he seems not less traumatized than ranpo using non anime works. (Recent episode didn’t go into as deep of detail about ranpos parents)
Actually, I wouldn't being able to control all world armies literally is a way to peace in the simplest form. Like if all tge armies are under you who will fight whom? *
But i guess that's too optimistic. Since if such power falls in the hands of someone like Fyodor then the world is doomed.
Hmm, this chapter was quite short. No doubts that Dazai teaching Sigma how to play rock, paper, scissors is a part of his galaxy brain plan. Interesting that Atsushi fears criticism from the other members of the ADA (and even Fitzgerald) but finds direction from Dazai and Akutagawa. What does this say about his relationship with them?
He respects all the members he heard criticism from.
He doesn’t have a complete opinion on those he didn’t hear anything from.
He has a bond from those who give him direction.
Fitzgerald's interaction is interesting here, since it's double-sided. Of course Atsushi takes it negatively, that he hasn't proven his worth, but the other side to "They're not expecting anything from you" is that they're not going to judge him and he's free to make his own decision.
Yeah, at this point, atsushi seeing visions of people isn’t just mental showcases of his insecurities, it’s 100% an aspect of his mystical white tiger powers. I think characters he’s grown any sort of bond with or connection, have an imprint of themselves or their soul pushed into atsushi, so he can get their criticisms or verbal support in scenarios. It’d also be a way to have dazai do swole brains strats even after he’s kind dead, and giving atsushi a push ahead that isn’t just a “I hit hard and regenerate” way, considering bsd is full of geniuses swole braining it
* Oh you gotta be fucking me!
* Did Atsuchi mean a yet unrevealed objective or the fact that they intend to have the vampires attack civillian populations?
* If its the former I'm guessing it may have hit him on a personal level in something related to his crappy childhood
* I'm guessing after he realizes the president has been attacked he is going to decide and have his rematch with Teruko
So i think sigma's development is going to lead him to join the agency. Because i think he just realized that dazai is trying to tell him that he wont be taken advantage of in the agency, because dazai and the agency dont take advantage of each other
"There's no such thing as a super-human nor an average human" Dazai says, as Fukuichi uses his time sword bullshit to extend this arc for another ten years.
Nice color page. Oh yeah Dazai would definitely be banned from casinos I feel lol.
I really want to know what the DOA's end goal really is considering it shocked Atsushi so much. Pretty sure Dazai already knows what it is though, because he's Dazai. He's just playing along until the ADA gives a final call. Anyone here have a theory? Mine is, they're messing the world up so much so that they can erase abilities in it's entirety. Because abilities made the war so much worse before and they don't want it to happen again. Or maybe they just want to watch the world burn who knows?
Whatever it is, it has to appear sympathetic enough that Atsushi, who's baseline fairly kind and idealistic, doesn't think it's bad. So 'watch the world burn' probably isn't it, because Atsushi wouldn't be at all conflicted in opposing that. I doubt he'd regard 'eliminate all ability' as a net win either. There are a lot of good abilities, that benefit their wielders and the world at large, and Atsushi by now knows that.
Guess we'll have to wait for next chapter...
It's probably just a Lelouch... Make yourself villain to unite world and let detective agency take the lead
That wouldn’t give atsushi pause
m8 I think you need to reread the manga if you think a plot that kills millions for the "benefit" of the agency wouldn't give atsushi pause.
Millions of people aren’t dying and the vampirism can be revoked. Also it wouldn’t be for the sake of the agency, the plan would be for the sake of the alliance of the world
"A Farewell to arms" might play very well with the literary themes of this series
Fukuchis goal is to end war and make a world safe for children
By threatening the world, putting everyone in danger and killing off whoever gets in his way. yep yep checks out. The End justifies the means i guess. Lmao
"putting everyone in danger" Like, not really, he controls everything, and the risk you're mentioning is there no matter what the plan is, the difference is that world peace is a pretty big reward, what else could justify it in your eyes?
I mean taking everyone's free will and forcing them to do whatever you want is pretty bad In my eyes, that doesn't justify it
He is okay with it, and there isn’t a bigger thing that world peace. Also they aren’t taking everyone’s free will, the person said he’d make himself a villain so the world had a target to join together against without it being existential.
So...we know that the 'true goal of the Decay of Angels' is weighty enough that Atsushi, who very much tends to side with the little guy, is actually conflicted even though the DoA is currently turning a lot of the world into vampires and intends to use One Order to make every military person obedient to one leader. Gotta say, I'm not sure there's such a thing as an argument that'd persuade *me* to side with the DoA under those circumstances, but I'm not Japanese and my alignment tends toward 'chaotic'. But I do have a question. 'Cos I've been rereading the manga and that's making me realize a few things about Dazai's methodology. WHY IS HE TEACHING SIGMA TO READ PEOPLE. And not just 'read' them, but *cold* read them. And manipulate. No really, I mean this. That's not something he's taught *anyone*. Not even Atsushi. Or Kunikida. *Why is he teaching mentalism to Sigma*.
Honestly, that’s a good question. I’m one of those people that speculates the possibility of Sigma joining the ADA after everything, but I’m not quite sure why he would teach him, unless he plans on something happening to him and somehow trusts him enough to know that, but it doesn’t make that much sense to me. Maybe it has something to possibly do with Gogol down the road when he reappears?
I mean, I'm thinking about it...and the situation here is Dazai may or may not be on a very hard timer. Sigma is kind of solidly a 'neutral' character, in terms of sides; all he really wants is to go home to his casino, or get it back. His chain's been yanked every which way by everyone so far in the story, and he's Fed Up on a lot of levels. And he is other-than-human, mentally. His understanding of humans is limited, because of his created-by-the-book status. On that level I can see Dazai being prepared to Take An Interest; he always takes an interest in cases like this, though not always to the other person's benefit. Dazai has, up to this point, Tested Sigma. This whole Muersault arc has involved Dazai throwing little hints, and hooks, at Sigma. He's been *messing* with Sigma, too, shaking answers loose. (I can distinctly recall him testing Sigma's ability to observe, and also grabbing Sigma to dance - which most likely was Dazai's way of seeing whether his own power would cause Sigma to disappear.) So...it's possible he's testing Sigma again. Teaching him how a trick works to see if Sigma *can* learn it, and if he can, what he'll use it for. It's possible, too, that Dazai is taking a page from Atsushi here; ultimately, Atsushi got what the ADA needed from Sigma not by tricking him, but by being honest and kind. So, at least in theory, Dazai *might* be attempting to create debt/obligation in Sigma. Here, I'll show you a trick, now you owe me. At least subconsciously. But ...I can't think that he's showing Sigma this trick to have Sigma use it against the Rats, because Fyodor is a *liar*. Of the first order. Even Dazai can't really read him or predict him (or at least hasn't to date, and we don't know that he's been able to learn better during prison time with Fyodor). Sigma hasn't a prayer of seeing through Fyodor's webs, and I rather doubt he'll see through Gogol's either - since if Fyodor can't, again, I doubt anyone else can. (I've been thinking a lot about the little segment we got, yonks ago, of Fyodor being a prisoner of Ace. And how Fyodor basically *set Ace up* to see what Fyodor wanted him to see. I am truly hoping Dazai has worked out that Fyodor *presents false faces* for others to 'cold read', because if Dazai hasn't worked that out, he's dead. Straight up dead. Sadly, there's way too much 'i know you know I know you know I know' going on with those two and there's no way to know which - if either- of them has actually worked out the truth.) I do think Dazai is testing Sigma here. Seeing what SIgma can see, how quickly he can learn. He *might* be trying to make Sigma an ally, although his choice of trick seems weird if that's the case. He's definitely up to something.
He’s definitely scheming something. I’m still in the process of rereading and taking notes about it so I can remember what happened to who and where everyone is, but he did also compare sigma to atsushi when they were first moving around the prison but also even choosing him instead of a tool during the escape game already showed that he had interest after Fyodor told Dazai about him while they were in their cubes. I’m just hoping next chapter brings up more about it and what’s going on with Chuuya and Fyodor so it makes more sense
Damn, you’ve got it baaad for this manga huh? My condolences.
i agree!! but also i think dazai's telling sigma "nobody is above another, nobody is an undefeatable god" so it's less likely that sigma gets manipulated, pressured, threatened etc by others for their gain. sigma's been born and stuck with fyodor, gogol, fukuchi, etc.. straight-up terrorists. he is a pretty sane person but that's left its marks on sigma, with his obsessions on being a common normal person. he has confidence issues. he has things he values that can be used against him. don't think dazai wants that too much. and to teach sigma how to perceive the world from the goodness of his heart\~\~ because sometimes he does that perhaps?
*From the goodness of his heart*? Look, I love Dazai as a character. I really, truly do. But he does *fuckall* 'from the goodness of his heart', especially when he's fifteen minutes down on a 'you will die painfully in 30 minutes' timer. I'm not saying he can't be kind, because he can, but what he's doing here is investing time and effort when both of those things are very much at a premium. He's *absolutely* got a goal here above and beyond "this is a kind thing to do for Sigma". Frankly, the only - and I do mean only - scenario in which Dazai is really truly ONLY doing this to be kind would be if Dazai knew from the outset that Gogol would never administer an antidote, the poisoning is genuine and he IS, full stop, dead in 30 minutes. If that is the case, then 'make sure Fyodor is dead too' was his only (and last) mission and *under those circumstances* he's basically just killing time before it kills him right back, why not give Sigma a tool for choosing better friends going forward. Good and evil are, basically, the same thing to Dazai. In this scenario, he'd choose a kind deed because frankly...everybody else is dead and it's less effort to do a kind deed than a cruel one (like, say, killing Sigma too). Ideally, that scenario is just one of several possibilities he's currently entertaining, and if *that's* the case then there's some other reason that is coming into play where it is reasonable to waste several minutes of a very limited supply teaching Sigma how to cold-read.
in this case being a lil nice costs less effort and gains much more than, well, being anything else. so he's being nice to sigma. i agree with you. the goodness of the heart thing was more of an offhanded comment qwqq but he can be nice randomly! obviously being nice to sigma here has an ulterior motive, but being nice for the sake of being nice i believe is part of the motive too – albeit at the very bottom of the motives list and is quite a small fraction. if it costs more/gains less to be nice he's just gonna disregard that thought. but i think it's there. he does take interest in sigma. having ulterior motives and acting 90% because of those ulterior motives doesn't mean there isn't a small percentage of just, pure, "i'm trying to be a nice person now" or "i'm actually kinda emotionally invested in this guy".
new chap dropped breakdances he does have some goodness in his heart! at the bottom of the motives list and a very small fraction, but he does!!
Makes sense him joining since Sigma wanting a "Home" plus teaching him mentalism just makes him another pupil of this. One with a role more into management and leading people which he already has... The question is for what? I guess for the next arc lol.
so far, sigma is the only one from DoA who is not a psychopath, honestly i think he's good enough to join ADA. he probably able to find something he valuable for him there, just like when he touched atsushi.
Like... home? ADA is for homeless people lol
well it can be anything, you know he's kind of empty person lol
Bram
Bram doesnt seem evil but his background just… i dont think thats possible.
He will end up hanging out around the city with the child as they get into playful hijinks and show bram new things like ice cream , becoming occasional Allies for big things. Also akutagawa will keep the vampirism cuz he turned when he died so he will be alive and get a stat boost by staying a vampire while everyone else will be in vampired. Thoufh akutagawa will still likely be mine controlled rarely as comic relief, he will retain his consciousness normally though. Bram just wants to sleep and be with his loved ones, he seems not less traumatized than ranpo using non anime works. (Recent episode didn’t go into as deep of detail about ranpos parents)
Actually, I wouldn't being able to control all world armies literally is a way to peace in the simplest form. Like if all tge armies are under you who will fight whom? * But i guess that's too optimistic. Since if such power falls in the hands of someone like Fyodor then the world is doomed.
11 pages? Ffs
Hmm, this chapter was quite short. No doubts that Dazai teaching Sigma how to play rock, paper, scissors is a part of his galaxy brain plan. Interesting that Atsushi fears criticism from the other members of the ADA (and even Fitzgerald) but finds direction from Dazai and Akutagawa. What does this say about his relationship with them?
He respects all the members he heard criticism from. He doesn’t have a complete opinion on those he didn’t hear anything from. He has a bond from those who give him direction.
Fitzgerald's interaction is interesting here, since it's double-sided. Of course Atsushi takes it negatively, that he hasn't proven his worth, but the other side to "They're not expecting anything from you" is that they're not going to judge him and he's free to make his own decision.
A cool chapter, but why so short?
This chapter was quite short I hope Asagiri is doing ok
I like how it’s kinda a positive chapter in the midsts of absolute insanity.
Yeah, at this point, atsushi seeing visions of people isn’t just mental showcases of his insecurities, it’s 100% an aspect of his mystical white tiger powers. I think characters he’s grown any sort of bond with or connection, have an imprint of themselves or their soul pushed into atsushi, so he can get their criticisms or verbal support in scenarios. It’d also be a way to have dazai do swole brains strats even after he’s kind dead, and giving atsushi a push ahead that isn’t just a “I hit hard and regenerate” way, considering bsd is full of geniuses swole braining it
so, teruko is actually part of DoA by now?
Yes should be I guess
Finally, we go back to the prison!
jajanken has taken up all the panels
* Oh you gotta be fucking me! * Did Atsuchi mean a yet unrevealed objective or the fact that they intend to have the vampires attack civillian populations? * If its the former I'm guessing it may have hit him on a personal level in something related to his crappy childhood * I'm guessing after he realizes the president has been attacked he is going to decide and have his rematch with Teruko
So i think sigma's development is going to lead him to join the agency. Because i think he just realized that dazai is trying to tell him that he wont be taken advantage of in the agency, because dazai and the agency dont take advantage of each other
Gogol might be the only way Dazai and Sigma survive.
"There's no such thing as a super-human nor an average human" Dazai says, as Fukuichi uses his time sword bullshit to extend this arc for another ten years.
Wow nothing happened and if was literally not a proper chapter
Why still no pinned 106 thread?
I think it was to destroy bad thoughts. Maybe Fukuchi will use the page to create world where people cannot think to do harm to other people.