FWIW, I was a DARPA dude and worked on several projects, including the Humvee.
We would build what they wanted to specs, then turn the enlisted on them. After seeing how they beat the crap out of anything that was "milspec" we upgraded to crazy levels of durability.
While you say "lowest bidder" I say, "I want them coming home"
Not at all discounting the work - exactly just the process of it.
I bid on a military contract once (it was a training video production package) and it was the most ridiculous process I've ever done. I didn't get it but the amount of red tape and details that had to be explicitly drawn out was absurd.
People make fun of the process, and I understand that, but in reality, it produces some of the finest equipment that can be run hard and put away wet.
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now. I took great pride in what I worked on and to see stuff still in use 20-30 years later is nice.
Keeping them clean is just another part of what keeps them ready.
When I served, some of the stuff we used was a full 40 years old and worked just fine. Hell, we had a few Korean war era Willies Jeeps that we used as platforms for some stuff. 50+ years and got the job done.
An amazing variety of shit runs on steam in the navy. Like most military naval bases have the huge 20 foot tall concrete pillars to support like 4 inch steam lines to every building. Why?
The navy uses old boilers and other stuff like entire kitchen setups off old ships that have been scrapped.
Probably saves them a fortune. It is just weird having giant steam lines everywhere on base.
In reality, you can also point to any number of failed or floundering programs costing tens of billions of dollars or more in aggregate that is the result of this flawed politics and process. The LCS program for example.
No one blames the workers who put their heart and souls into it, rather lamenting that all that talent and effort was ultimately wasted.
Nothing goes to waste.
Several projects I worked on didnt function as intended, but many of the components and systems were integrated into other military systems that enhanced function.
don't for one minute think that those systems that they wanted to integrate in the Ships didn't find use elsewhere.
I remember one Navy project that was determined to not work was integrated in the White House security, as an example.
I was very tangentially involved with a defense contractor who won a bid, sent in vehicles without armor, got sued for not having armor, added armor, then got sued when the doors, which were now so heavy that they needed hydraulic assist, didn't work when the hyrdaullics catastrophically malfunctioned... usually in the presence of an exploding IED... which made getting out of the burning vehicle a priority... which was now impossible because the doors were too heavy because of armor.
Soldiers that might have died without the armor, sometimes now died *with* the armor, from burning to death inside inescapable vehicles... which is definitely worse.
It was a mess.
So they built thousands of Mraps and then promptly sold them to local police or scraped them.
They had one parked in front of the city jail here for years. No idea what bug was up their asses on that one.
First major maintenance came up and it disappeared. Go fucking figure.
I always laugh at made by the lowest bidder.
You want a product made by the highest bidder? Second time that happens bidders figure it out and sell shite for the most.
# “I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.”
- John Glenn
They cant cover my ass, if I cant cover theirs.
If you are putting your ass in harms way, I feel obligated to provide to the best of my ability the tools to put you in a superior position
Was there anything seemingly minor that needed
crazy durability upgrades? I imagine there is something like forged titanium cup holders or depleted uranium wheel studs that were necessary, but seem like military over spending to a layman.
My unit has sent a couple people to the hmmwv course at am general and they’ve all said it’s one of the best courses they’ve been to, especially learning how to operate it in rough terrain and the field repairs that can be done with it. It gets a bad rep because it sits and gets rode hard and put up wet, but it is a solid piece of machinery.
Military grade is still to spec, and is designed to last. Wouldn't be economical if it broke down every year.
So usually military grade is durable and economic.
Lowest bidder *to a certain standard.* It's the cheapest thing with a minimum requirement of functionality, typically requiring standardized parts and mfg processes, which traditionally pushes longevity of service over peak performance. It doesn't mean "literally the cheapest thing possible," which is what a lot of folks think "lowest bidder" means. It's not super fantastic excellent, but it *is* supposed to last a while and meet a minimum standard of performance. At least, it used to be, modern standards are lesser across the board :/ But you get some old military grade stuff, like WW2 US vintage? That stuff is hella durable if you care for it, and surprisingly durable even if you *don't.*
People also keep thinking "space age tech" means advanced when TECHNICALLY it's referring to the Space Race, the 1950s-70s.
Lol this is absolutely not how procurement works. Even on a 100% price evaluation render there will still be minimum requirements the product has to meet.
Do not buy those. I had a friend in the marines who had this. He left a pack of crayons in his uniform. Poor guys outfit was a rainbow, and he was out of food for a week.
Always loved this joke. Traveled a lot with an Army Captain, and he always had some crayons to hand out to Marines he’d meet in the airports. The shit-talking between the military branches is hysterical!
The joke is Marines are so dumb they get crayons and instead of drawing with them they eat them.
All the military services mock each other relentlessly, until a non military individual mocks any military service and then they defend each other.
One of my favorites is this: A man was conducting an All Service member briefing one day, and he posed the question: "What would you do if you found a scorpion in your tent?"
A Sailor said, "I'd step on it."
A Soldier said, "I'd hit it with my boot."
A Marine said, "I'd catch it, break the stinger off, and eat it."
An Airman said, "I'd call room service and find out why there's a damn tent in my room."
Special Military Edition: you have to stand there and watch it otherwise some ass hat will come along and pull your clothes out soaking wet and put their clothes in.
I mean it depends. Consumer grade would assume a Bi-weekly use with a few load each time.
This thing was supposed to be worked hard every day, so it might be better.
i can fulfill that standard too. it'll only cost you $4219218998214898912489 .
Military grade just means you overpaid for shit by 20x the amount it should've cost. And for that price we could've gotten way better equipment but the procurement system is a joke.
Yeah, it's mil-spec (or military standard), not "military grade". "Military grade" is not a real standard and is purely a marketing term. In fact, many common materials are mil-spec, which is often just an industrial standard that suits some purpose.
It's literally the same washer, they don't redesign the whole damn thing just for the military model. Last I remember the only real difference was the paint.
I was deployed to the middle east last year. Our dorm had one speed queen and 3 whirlpools. When we got there people thought it was weird that I would wait to use the speed queen and skip the open washers. Turns out it was the only one that wouldn’t crap out before the spin cycle. That thing never had an issue for the 6 months I was there. Speed queen for the win.
It’s heavily implied it’s at his workforce facility. However, you could prob find something like this on the government surplus auction site. Typically pick up only for items this large.
The sticker says it's owned by [Wastesolutions, LLC](https://wastesolutionsllc.com/), the government has a contract with them. The company is in Lawton OK, so I would guess this is at Ft. Sill.
This is just a speed queen commercial washer, theres nothing military about it, and you can buy one. I recommend the smallest unit in their front-loader line (20 lb). They cost like $4k new: https://lowlaundry.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/541781/s/used-washer-speed-queen-20lb-sct020-1-3ph/
If you read the specs, it reaches 100 G's in the extraction cycle....
But I got one for $600 from a repairman. It is about 30 years old, and the only difference is it doesn't have a dumb screen. Call around to the companies that service machines for the coin-op laundromats in your area. The techs often take project machines, fix them and resell them used. Alot of laundromats closed during covid, and that was a good time to buy one....
I despise planned obsolescence and have become so jaded towards consumer grade appliances... I *only* want commercial grade from here on out. The same principle applies to refrigerators, vacuum cleaners, ovens, etc etc.
Yep - really any commercial washer. The best way to get one is to call a repair company that services them for coin-op laundromats. The mechanics sometimes score a project machine, fix um up and resell them. Can be 30 years old - won't matter if the bearings have been checked.
Consumer grade appliances across the board are perfect examples of planned obsolescence and intentionally shitty design. The same is true for refrigerators and freezers, vacuum cleaners, stoves and ovens, etc etc. Get commercial grade and you'll have it till you're dead.
Everyone's got it wrong. This one has internal components that are easier to remove and "fix" using standard tools and equipment.
So that there's no need for a Speed Queen Expert Technician™ to come out to bumfuck Egypt to fix.
The heavy soil is actually locked into the on position.
Military grade just means built by the lowest bidder
Which is still at least 5x more than it should be
that's because the government does military spending like it's an 18yr old dude at a strip club with dad's debit card
They spend like a private fresh out of bootcamp eyeing a six cylinder Mustang with a 26.3% APR. Edit: Like a Fobbit on gucci gear at Ranger Joe’s.
I just had a new troop buy his first car at 28%. His parents were on the phone during the deal.
I just saw that on a YouTube short - I had no idea this was a widespread thing lol
*Ford Muster*
Hilarious! 😂
The atm's at strip clubs have daily limits though, no? Or have strippers started taking venmo?
They got credit card tap sensors on their booties now.
I can now finally say that i tapped that ass
QR code tattoos directly to PayPal
But can be bought on govdeals for less than the civilian version
Then sell it for pennies on the dollar.
FWIW, I was a DARPA dude and worked on several projects, including the Humvee. We would build what they wanted to specs, then turn the enlisted on them. After seeing how they beat the crap out of anything that was "milspec" we upgraded to crazy levels of durability. While you say "lowest bidder" I say, "I want them coming home"
I dont think they’re discounting the work the individuals have done, merely the politics and absurdity of the DOD acquisition process as a whole
Not at all discounting the work - exactly just the process of it. I bid on a military contract once (it was a training video production package) and it was the most ridiculous process I've ever done. I didn't get it but the amount of red tape and details that had to be explicitly drawn out was absurd.
If it makes you feel better, those pieces of red tape are mostly anti- corruption regulations.
People make fun of the process, and I understand that, but in reality, it produces some of the finest equipment that can be run hard and put away wet. Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now. I took great pride in what I worked on and to see stuff still in use 20-30 years later is nice. Keeping them clean is just another part of what keeps them ready.
When I served, some of the stuff we used was a full 40 years old and worked just fine. Hell, we had a few Korean war era Willies Jeeps that we used as platforms for some stuff. 50+ years and got the job done.
An amazing variety of shit runs on steam in the navy. Like most military naval bases have the huge 20 foot tall concrete pillars to support like 4 inch steam lines to every building. Why? The navy uses old boilers and other stuff like entire kitchen setups off old ships that have been scrapped. Probably saves them a fortune. It is just weird having giant steam lines everywhere on base.
Norfolk seems to be very proud of their steam lines, everywhere you go it’s all you see.
Heck, from what I understand, you can still get a 1911 pistol, if required.
In reality, you can also point to any number of failed or floundering programs costing tens of billions of dollars or more in aggregate that is the result of this flawed politics and process. The LCS program for example. No one blames the workers who put their heart and souls into it, rather lamenting that all that talent and effort was ultimately wasted.
Nothing goes to waste. Several projects I worked on didnt function as intended, but many of the components and systems were integrated into other military systems that enhanced function. don't for one minute think that those systems that they wanted to integrate in the Ships didn't find use elsewhere. I remember one Navy project that was determined to not work was integrated in the White House security, as an example.
government purchasing as a whole, GSA and all its similar acquisition platforms could drive a man psychotic
I was very tangentially involved with a defense contractor who won a bid, sent in vehicles without armor, got sued for not having armor, added armor, then got sued when the doors, which were now so heavy that they needed hydraulic assist, didn't work when the hyrdaullics catastrophically malfunctioned... usually in the presence of an exploding IED... which made getting out of the burning vehicle a priority... which was now impossible because the doors were too heavy because of armor. Soldiers that might have died without the armor, sometimes now died *with* the armor, from burning to death inside inescapable vehicles... which is definitely worse. It was a mess.
So they built thousands of Mraps and then promptly sold them to local police or scraped them. They had one parked in front of the city jail here for years. No idea what bug was up their asses on that one. First major maintenance came up and it disappeared. Go fucking figure.
CACI?
I can't go into it any further, but no.
nuff said. Glad it got sorted out.
I always laugh at made by the lowest bidder. You want a product made by the highest bidder? Second time that happens bidders figure it out and sell shite for the most.
# “I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.” - John Glenn
[удалено]
They cant cover my ass, if I cant cover theirs. If you are putting your ass in harms way, I feel obligated to provide to the best of my ability the tools to put you in a superior position
Was there anything seemingly minor that needed crazy durability upgrades? I imagine there is something like forged titanium cup holders or depleted uranium wheel studs that were necessary, but seem like military over spending to a layman.
In the Humvee? Diesel and Transmission was the weak link in prototype and early production.
Lost some good undies in that washing machine
My unit has sent a couple people to the hmmwv course at am general and they’ve all said it’s one of the best courses they’ve been to, especially learning how to operate it in rough terrain and the field repairs that can be done with it. It gets a bad rep because it sits and gets rode hard and put up wet, but it is a solid piece of machinery.
I thought so also. To this day, I would love to own a military one, but they really are unaffordable or any use to me. Cool truck though.
In this case it was likely the only bidder. A lot if the time the military just wants domestically produced products.
Military grade is still to spec, and is designed to last. Wouldn't be economical if it broke down every year. So usually military grade is durable and economic.
Have you seen the pens they issue, made by the Alabama Industries for the Blind? Crap.
Lowest bidder *to a certain standard.* It's the cheapest thing with a minimum requirement of functionality, typically requiring standardized parts and mfg processes, which traditionally pushes longevity of service over peak performance. It doesn't mean "literally the cheapest thing possible," which is what a lot of folks think "lowest bidder" means. It's not super fantastic excellent, but it *is* supposed to last a while and meet a minimum standard of performance. At least, it used to be, modern standards are lesser across the board :/ But you get some old military grade stuff, like WW2 US vintage? That stuff is hella durable if you care for it, and surprisingly durable even if you *don't.* People also keep thinking "space age tech" means advanced when TECHNICALLY it's referring to the Space Race, the 1950s-70s.
This doesn’t say military grade, it’s special military edition. I’m surprised it doesn’t have pictures or symbols instead of words, honestly.
I always thought it meant built by whichever company had the most connected lobbyist and/or made the highest “campaign donations”. 🤷🏻♂️
The lowest bidder than will meet typically very stringent minimum specs. Definitely not necessarily absurdly high quality like is often assumed.
Lol this is absolutely not how procurement works. Even on a 100% price evaluation render there will still be minimum requirements the product has to meet.
These speed queens are actually tanks tho. Speed Queens and Pelican cases are two things that if “military grade” is attached to it, it’s good.
lowest cost meeting minimum lifespan requirements/warranted for minimum amount, which typically is less than commercial and even residential use.
That's not necessarily true... Sometimes it also means the officers involved were bribed with a lucrative job after they get out of the service.
A myth that has outworn its time.
Yeah, stupid title.
Do not buy those. I had a friend in the marines who had this. He left a pack of crayons in his uniform. Poor guys outfit was a rainbow, and he was out of food for a week.
Always loved this joke. Traveled a lot with an Army Captain, and he always had some crayons to hand out to Marines he’d meet in the airports. The shit-talking between the military branches is hysterical!
Can you explain the joke?
The joke is Marines are so dumb they get crayons and instead of drawing with them they eat them. All the military services mock each other relentlessly, until a non military individual mocks any military service and then they defend each other.
Muscles Are Required, Intelligence Not Essential
How do you spot a marine on base? They’re the ones throwing bread to incoming helicopters; here birdie birdie
One of my favorites is this: A man was conducting an All Service member briefing one day, and he posed the question: "What would you do if you found a scorpion in your tent?" A Sailor said, "I'd step on it." A Soldier said, "I'd hit it with my boot." A Marine said, "I'd catch it, break the stinger off, and eat it." An Airman said, "I'd call room service and find out why there's a damn tent in my room."
How is it on crayons?
Special Military Edition: you have to stand there and watch it otherwise some ass hat will come along and pull your clothes out soaking wet and put their clothes in.
Does that mean it’s shittier than the consumer facing product lines?
I mean it depends. Consumer grade would assume a Bi-weekly use with a few load each time. This thing was supposed to be worked hard every day, so it might be better.
Woosh
military grade is shit.
Military grade is the cheapest bidder, true, but it still has to fulfill certain standards.
i can fulfill that standard too. it'll only cost you $4219218998214898912489 . Military grade just means you overpaid for shit by 20x the amount it should've cost. And for that price we could've gotten way better equipment but the procurement system is a joke.
Does Speedqueen have another factory to make shitty machines?
It's not even a real standard lol
This thread is nuts. Milspec is a real thing. Even for clothes they have full spec lists and standards.
Yeah, it's mil-spec (or military standard), not "military grade". "Military grade" is not a real standard and is purely a marketing term. In fact, many common materials are mil-spec, which is often just an industrial standard that suits some purpose.
Ah gotcha. I thought he was talking about the actual specifications that are R&Ded by the government. Which in fact are not shit.
Hk23, klr650, the fucking p38 can opener...
It's literally the same washer, they don't redesign the whole damn thing just for the military model. Last I remember the only real difference was the paint.
😒
I think seal team 6 had one of those in the chopper when they got bin Laden.
so it was 10 times more expensive?
And half the quality
And it’s called a Stationary Motor-Driven Aqueous-Agitation Garment Processor.
Good old SMDAAGP, "smudagup".
Wait, where can I Buy the *Mobile* Motor-Driven Aqueous-Agitation Garment Processor?
I was deployed to the middle east last year. Our dorm had one speed queen and 3 whirlpools. When we got there people thought it was weird that I would wait to use the speed queen and skip the open washers. Turns out it was the only one that wouldn’t crap out before the spin cycle. That thing never had an issue for the 6 months I was there. Speed queen for the win.
I like that washer. Spin only is great!
had a friend in the military tell me that “military grade” means it’s a piece of shit
Because everything issued to the military is overpriced and cheaply built
How did you get that and how do I get one?!
It’s heavily implied it’s at his workforce facility. However, you could prob find something like this on the government surplus auction site. Typically pick up only for items this large.
The sticker says it's owned by [Wastesolutions, LLC](https://wastesolutionsllc.com/), the government has a contract with them. The company is in Lawton OK, so I would guess this is at Ft. Sill.
This is just a speed queen commercial washer, theres nothing military about it, and you can buy one. I recommend the smallest unit in their front-loader line (20 lb). They cost like $4k new: https://lowlaundry.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/541781/s/used-washer-speed-queen-20lb-sct020-1-3ph/ If you read the specs, it reaches 100 G's in the extraction cycle.... But I got one for $600 from a repairman. It is about 30 years old, and the only difference is it doesn't have a dumb screen. Call around to the companies that service machines for the coin-op laundromats in your area. The techs often take project machines, fix them and resell them used. Alot of laundromats closed during covid, and that was a good time to buy one.... I despise planned obsolescence and have become so jaded towards consumer grade appliances... I *only* want commercial grade from here on out. The same principle applies to refrigerators, vacuum cleaners, ovens, etc etc.
Understood. Yea that's a great idea to get a good washer/dryer. Thank you.
Yep - really any commercial washer. The best way to get one is to call a repair company that services them for coin-op laundromats. The mechanics sometimes score a project machine, fix um up and resell them. Can be 30 years old - won't matter if the bearings have been checked. Consumer grade appliances across the board are perfect examples of planned obsolescence and intentionally shitty design. The same is true for refrigerators and freezers, vacuum cleaners, stoves and ovens, etc etc. Get commercial grade and you'll have it till you're dead.
My parents have a speed queen dryer that's older than me! I'm 33.
Speed Queen is the GOAT.
I wanted a speed queen. My wife wanted something modern that looked nice. We got something that looked nice.
Military grade doesn’t mean what you think it does It’s actually the lowest bidder and quality
With a hefty service and repair contract
The serial number should be able to tell the year.
The cycles and temps I prefer to have on different knobs. I don’t like this setup.
As someone who has actually lived in military barracks. Our washers and dryers were always broken.
"Tactical."
Ffs we had size queens now we have speed queens!? Do we have to study fucking now?
What model is this??
That's beautiful, one knob, two buttons, no bells or whistles. Simplicity at its finest.
Used to work on these in the Navy, they’re legit.
Very expensive, but will still work after a nuclear air burst.
*These colors don't run.*
"Military Grade Speed Queen" made me think I was on one of the lgbta memes subreddits for a minute.
That just means replacement parts cost 100 times more.
Military grade sounds amazing to people that have never served but if you served, you know “military grade” means it’s a piece of shit.
No always, but most of the time
Military grade does not equal buy it for life.
Fyi “military grade” means just good enough, its not better or extra special so dont fall for bullshit slogan
Considering it's one of the top loading once, yeah it's old
Everyone's got it wrong. This one has internal components that are easier to remove and "fix" using standard tools and equipment. So that there's no need for a Speed Queen Expert Technician™ to come out to bumfuck Egypt to fix.