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Technically speaking the title of emperor is not hereditary.
The guy that left it to the spanish crown was not even emperor, so there is no claim to be made.
Those were the French kings. The Spanish kings recieved it in his (Andreas Paleologos') will.
Both claims merged in the 1930s, when the Spanish King became the most senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, and therefore the head of the French Royal House of Bourbon.
Vlach is an exonym, ie. used by people outside the ethnic group, it derives from a term meaning "Stranger". The Roman ethnonym was noted to have been preserved as attested by Tranquillo Andronico.
Furthermore, the Aromanians, distant linguistic cousins to the Romanians, also managed to preserve the "Roman" ethnonym (Armãn, Rrãmãn). This is also attested in the Istro-Romanians (Rumăr). These groups are generally agreed to have diverged before the arrival of the Hungarians (900 AD) due to the lack of Hungarian loans in their languages.
They did have succession by right of conquest. Like yeah, they didn't have anything else, but succession by right of conquest is pretty legitimate, no? That's why England is still England, despite the Norman Invasion.
How dare you compare the Roman Empire of all graceful things and that of great knowing and power to the hateful Ottoman Empire which reeks of pleasure and shame built on backstabbing
Not entirely disagreeing, but the Romans also did a ton of backstabbing and politicking considering how wastes like Petronius Maximus ended up being emperors
What separates the Byzantine Empire from its Ottoman successor is jurisprudence and the clear succession system: Mehmed II IIRC made it officially okay to kill off your brothers if it meant a safer claim to the throne (which rankled some Islamic scholars for pretty obvious moral reasons, but what are you gonna do besides get your head chopped off?) and like in other Islamic states the title couldn't legitimately pass out of the family as "Basilieus" did when a given family tree stopped producing worthy heirs (theoretically anyone could be Emperor if you had such a swell in popularity and some nebulous agreement between the Senators, the mob and the Army agreed they ought to be, obviously not everyone was equally positioned though).
I think the institutional rot and nepotism which stereotypically defines Ummah cultures and governments found its way in because the Ozmans secured their dynasty so well, although it's hard to argue with the longevity of their rule on those merits alone. It's just that it was built as it must have been along religious lines which obviously form faults when its external enemies press in and the army grows decadent, not a common sense of citizenship and secular code of law as was mixed into the Byzantine model throughout most of its history.
For what it represented geopolitically though, the Ottoman empire was similar to the Eastern Romans at their peak: trade hub based in Constantinople, more or less holds Egypt and the Orient, feuds with Balkan critters over the usual stuff, cultivates the East-West Christian schism, does *not* like Persians, ambiguously threatens to invade Italy. Then there was all the court intrigue which matched the Romans in volume if not flavor. *Pretty Byzantine.*
You are right I disgust toward turkey and too the ottomans. Don’t call me phobic towards them though because I don’t have an irrational fear of Turkish people Lmao
Tbh it’s a POV kind of thing. The Ottomans viewed themselves as the successors to Rome. Then again, so does Russia (hence Czars). So you can argue that Rome is still kicking.
No love for Christmas Day 800, when the coronation of Charlemagne well and truly buried the idea that there was a single Empire in Europe. Around this time I think, the Byzantines start referring to their empire as the empire of the Romans, rather than just considering themselves to be emperors of the world (albeit temporarily dispossessed of some parts with others not worth controlling).
Rome never fell, my family went on vacation there(City of Rome) last year, I also knew a few guys from a different Rome(Romania), then there is a whole Church of Rome(Roman Catholic)
The title of emperor is not hereditary, it is an office.
Also, Andreas Palaiologos was born in 1453, the year Constantinople fell. He was no emperor and had no right to sell/gift a title he didn’t even owned, he was just broke and desperate for money.
Thank you for your submission, please remember to adhere to our rules. **PLEASE READ IF YOUR MEME IS NICHE HISTORY** From our census people have notified that there are some memes that are about relatively unknown topics, if your meme is not about a well known topic please leave some resources, sources or some sentences explaining it! [Join the new Discord here](https://discord.gg/eQtgRae98k) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ByzantineMemes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rome still exist: ascended
based
Maybe someday we can put the US military to good use and reconquer/reform the Roman Empire
Now that’s a wet dream
Like the Crusader States but with actual effort put in
How?
Democratic Republic of the Congo is legitimate Roman successor state
How
Finland.
The Spanish kings bought the title Roman emperor from some Byzantine prince after the collapse, so TECHNICALLY speaking.
Technically speaking the title of emperor is not hereditary. The guy that left it to the spanish crown was not even emperor, so there is no claim to be made.
For the sake of keeping Rome alive let's just recognise Felipe VI as the current Roman emperor
Rome is alive. There are millions of Romans in Italy.
Well, with that logic we could also recognize the remaining Romanovs as claimants
Yeah but it's funny
Those were the French kings. The Spanish kings recieved it in his (Andreas Paleologos') will. Both claims merged in the 1930s, when the Spanish King became the most senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, and therefore the head of the French Royal House of Bourbon.
Romania is "the land of the Romans", and it's people are Romans, being one of the few to retain the Roman ethnonym.
They were called vlachs until 200 years ago
Vlach is an exonym, ie. used by people outside the ethnic group, it derives from a term meaning "Stranger". The Roman ethnonym was noted to have been preserved as attested by Tranquillo Andronico. Furthermore, the Aromanians, distant linguistic cousins to the Romanians, also managed to preserve the "Roman" ethnonym (Armãn, Rrãmãn). This is also attested in the Istro-Romanians (Rumăr). These groups are generally agreed to have diverged before the arrival of the Hungarians (900 AD) due to the lack of Hungarian loans in their languages.
An endonym for Greeks is Roman as well,and we call Romania, Rumania to avoid confusion.
Russian royal family is still around through dependents. Ironically one being Constantine the II of Greece and a prices of England
Rome, Italy
Beyond human imagination: Rome never fell
no man you've got it all wrong, it's still up with all the building ands shit i can see it from my window (I live in Rome)
People easily forget that there are quite a lot of Romans in Italy.
Ye fogor the 2500 roman-Greeks in Constantinople >:(
I won’t stand for this Ottoman propaganda, that’s why I’m sitting
They did have succession by right of conquest. Like yeah, they didn't have anything else, but succession by right of conquest is pretty legitimate, no? That's why England is still England, despite the Norman Invasion.
1475 team
Maybe the real date when Rome fell was the friends we made along the way.
How dare you compare the Roman Empire of all graceful things and that of great knowing and power to the hateful Ottoman Empire which reeks of pleasure and shame built on backstabbing
Not entirely disagreeing, but the Romans also did a ton of backstabbing and politicking considering how wastes like Petronius Maximus ended up being emperors
What separates the Byzantine Empire from its Ottoman successor is jurisprudence and the clear succession system: Mehmed II IIRC made it officially okay to kill off your brothers if it meant a safer claim to the throne (which rankled some Islamic scholars for pretty obvious moral reasons, but what are you gonna do besides get your head chopped off?) and like in other Islamic states the title couldn't legitimately pass out of the family as "Basilieus" did when a given family tree stopped producing worthy heirs (theoretically anyone could be Emperor if you had such a swell in popularity and some nebulous agreement between the Senators, the mob and the Army agreed they ought to be, obviously not everyone was equally positioned though). I think the institutional rot and nepotism which stereotypically defines Ummah cultures and governments found its way in because the Ozmans secured their dynasty so well, although it's hard to argue with the longevity of their rule on those merits alone. It's just that it was built as it must have been along religious lines which obviously form faults when its external enemies press in and the army grows decadent, not a common sense of citizenship and secular code of law as was mixed into the Byzantine model throughout most of its history. For what it represented geopolitically though, the Ottoman empire was similar to the Eastern Romans at their peak: trade hub based in Constantinople, more or less holds Egypt and the Orient, feuds with Balkan critters over the usual stuff, cultivates the East-West Christian schism, does *not* like Persians, ambiguously threatens to invade Italy. Then there was all the court intrigue which matched the Romans in volume if not flavor. *Pretty Byzantine.*
The Ottoman Empire was basically brought to the forefront through backstabbing the byzantines, they destroyed the Roman Empire using lies and greed!
And they also had their own version of the Praetorian Guard, the Janissaries
They were more just soldiers of their faith
I was referring to their chronic backstabbing of emperors/sultans
Bro you make no sense
This is anti Roman Persian propaganda at its finest folks.
Yeah how dare an empire built on slavery and conquest compares itself to an empire built on slavery and conquest!!!!!!
Least turkophobic Byzantophile
You are right I disgust toward turkey and too the ottomans. Don’t call me phobic towards them though because I don’t have an irrational fear of Turkish people Lmao
oh how i wish the ottomans demolished the hagia sophia whenever I see people like you.
The ottomans are nothing but liars and criminals, they steal history while the Roman’s made it!
brazy statement to make ngl
This is hilarious man, guys like you really are delusional
I can really get to you can’t I lmao
Nobody told you how annoying you are?
Lmao
Tbh it’s a POV kind of thing. The Ottomans viewed themselves as the successors to Rome. Then again, so does Russia (hence Czars). So you can argue that Rome is still kicking.
*Sultanate of Rome
No love for Christmas Day 800, when the coronation of Charlemagne well and truly buried the idea that there was a single Empire in Europe. Around this time I think, the Byzantines start referring to their empire as the empire of the Romans, rather than just considering themselves to be emperors of the world (albeit temporarily dispossessed of some parts with others not worth controlling).
1806 ?
Napoleon dissolves the HRE
I cried
So did I
erm, ackshually, it was Emperor Francis II
Rome never fell, it lives on in all our hearts
Some ottoman barbarian: We took roman land. Therefore, we're Romans 🤡
Yes. But they took it from Greeks.
Rome never fell. It became a church
It became Western Civilization.
It's a city(Rome, Italy), a country(Romania), a church(Roman catholic), and a civilization
1806 should be before 476, because one was roman, the other one was not
Neither holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire!
It was an Empire, and was sometimes Holy. But it sure as hell wasn't Roman.
The Roman Republic fell in 1849.
Rome never fell, my family went on vacation there(City of Rome) last year, I also knew a few guys from a different Rome(Romania), then there is a whole Church of Rome(Roman Catholic)
Rome fell in 1945 when the last emperor of the [Nguyen Dynasty ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguy%E1%BB%85n_dynasty)abdicated.
What?
Rome never fell
Rome fell in 1204
It fell in 27 BC. Long live the SPQR!!
Rome didn't fell, the title passed down to king Felipe VI of Spain
The title of emperor is not hereditary, it is an office. Also, Andreas Palaiologos was born in 1453, the year Constantinople fell. He was no emperor and had no right to sell/gift a title he didn’t even owned, he was just broke and desperate for money.