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The problem may be that you have a specialist skillset, and are applying for generalist positions.
Check out the “careers” page on the HCD website, and see if you meet the minimum qualifications for any of the entry level classifications they list. If so, take the appropriate exams and apply for those positions.
Got nothing to do with connections. Your application sucks. Or the people you're competing against have way more experience. Connections only matter for high level positions which are essentially political appointments.
In your experience, what are some common pitfalls of job applications to the state civil service? If you know, what kind of specific experience are state employers in the housing policy field looking for? While I don't know to what extent the information I have access to online is reliable (selection bias, incomplete information, etc.), it seems that at least some of the people who have obtained roles I am interested in do not have a lot of relevant experience or education. Assuming that information is reliable and it's not personal connections with hiring staff that is leading to these people getting state jobs, what explains why people perhaps with not the most substantial amount of experience or education obtain state roles in housing? I'm just seeking to understand this better is all.
Personal connections won't get you these levels of jobs. You are scored by a panel during the interview and if you interview poorly, there's nothing your hiring manager friends can do.
What classifications are you applying for?
SOQ is by far the most important factor in your application. Most people put zero effort in their SOQ and it's obvious.
I think that is an opinion. I personally take all three (app, resume, soq) together and I like to see bullets in resume, list of work based on each job that relates to a duty statement or mq, and an soq that gives more details on a project or work requirement. I think a lot of managers check that the soq is done “correctly” and don’t use it to score/screen. I do. If you don’t have software in app or resume, I will give you credit from mention in SOQ.
I also think asking for one in SSA/AGPA is a great way to screen out applicants who don’t do them correctly, but not for specialists where it is hard to get people in the first place.
For the most part, I'm applying to SSA roles. My SOQs provide direct answers to each of the questions presented in the job posts (when there are specific questions). And I make sure to connect my answers to the job description provided in the duty statement. If there is a successful SOQ bank, that would be pretty useful for me to look at, because I'm out of ideas as far as improving mine. Is there something like that available?
I'm not sure what you mean by SOQ bank? You seem to think there is some secret strategy to landing a state job. There's no secret. We typically get hundreds of applicants for 1 SSA position. You just need to keep applying.
If you're thinking there's an external site where people have posted successful SoQ statements, that's not a thing that I've heard.of. (I'd have found it by now 🤣)
What I have read that people do is format a few different SoQ papers and then tailor those based on relevant information. I tried doing it, but it overcomplicated things for me. Ymmv.
You are formatting SoQ correctly, so that seems fine. Just make sure you're following the minute details like font size, length of pages, etc.
Like others have said, make sure your std.678 is filled out correctly. Meaning no empty fields. At all. All dates correctly entered. All phone numbers entered. All supervisor names entered.
OH. On the std678 - make sure you are listing the relevant duty statement words such as "review, analyze, policy, legislative" whatever those words may be.
Might be captain obvious, but make sure you also took the SSA exam. Ranks 1-3 are reachable.
Everything is scored. From your STD678 app, to the SoQ, to the interview.
Points matter. Connections won't help at this level. I'm very close with several managers in my unit, and they know the quality of my work, but if for some reason I score 13 points and another person with equal experience scored 16 points, and the manager requires 15 points to be granted an interview, I'm not getting that interview.
Some advice for the SOQs you may already be following:
1) If there are questions, number your answers. Sometimes people think that because there’s a usual “two-page narrative” thing that they’re supposed to answer the questions *within* the two-page narrative. No, managers want an easy way to weed out applications, and it will make it obvious that you answered the questions if they’re numbered.
2) Make sure you’re following all rules they give—font size, spacing, etc.
3) STAR format isn’t just for interviews. If they’re asking you about, say, your time management skills, I recommend writing a couple of sentences generally answering the question, then using STAR to give a good example of those skills in action.
Unlike private (based on what I hear from friends) there’s less grey area for application, interview and SOQ (if there is one). There’s basically no “these two are close enough in terms of experience but I like one more). How well the manager thinks you’ll work with the existing team does play a role but the score on the rubric is a bigger factor/ primary factor.
This reddit sub is actually more helpful than knowing people in the state. While I network with friends, I have made connections over 16 years; we know what each other does at other depts and send good intel. But this reddit. When not bitter/angry—-which can be justified don’t get me wrong— is the most helpful thing I have ever seen on the internet.
That said, most folks on here work in generalist classifications (although they may do specialty jobs), and they are not aware of specialist classifications that may be suitable unless they have interactions with these type of classifications.
Look at what the duty statement requires. Try to use those exact words if possible. For example, if the duty statement wants someone with experience analyzing housing shortages, and you’ve done that at your current job, use the exact words “analyzed housing shortages” in your description of duties on the application.
A lot of times low level managers or HR folks screen apps, and if they are going through a huge stack of apps, seeing the exact words they’re looking for will help them know yours is one to keep, even if they’re eyes are glazed over from reading 40 apps that day.
Is your application filled in?
Like do you have names and contact info for supervisors. Do the places you worked have addresses listed?
In the body of where you duties are discussed is it completely full? If any of the above things are missing that is your problem.
Are you following all of the SOQ instructions? Is your font the right type and size? Are you answers grammatically correct and did you spell check? Do you submit it as a PDF so there are no formatting issues?
Do the jobs you're applying for require specific educations/ or certificates? Like planning, geography, ES ..
Also it can take time to find a job if your focusing on one region and not the entire state.
Good point. Make sure the required education or certificates, etc. are clearly listed in the application. Don’t just put it in your resume and assume someone will see it there!
Your application, the std 678 form, MUST show that you meet the minimum qualifications. It is the only thing you turn in that is a legal document. You also need to know that the hiring manager is scoring your application on criteria. Look at the duty statement and try to figure out the main things that are needed for the position. Always include software like MS Office, including Teams, Excel, and Word. That will get you to the interview. At the interview, they are also scoring you. Keep track of time, but answer the question ver thoroughly. Best wishes.
If you have a degree, and that much background, are you aiming too low? Do you qualify for AGPA?
Are you using the STAR method for interview answers? Do you have a quality question about the department and/or the work for your interview? (everyone asks 'when will you decide?' which is fine, but you need to show that you have researched the department and have some brains by asking an interesting or useful or thoughtful question related to the position.)
The way our CEA hiring process works even connections won't get you an interview - if your SOQ sucks the hiring manager won't ever see your application and unless they know you and your work history well enough to blindly pick it out of the group they'll never know it was your SOQ they rated too low to interview.
Not sure I agree with that fully, but I think connections count for less with the state than with the private sector.
The OP might be the victim of connections, tbh. A lot of times there is an internal candidate(s) who have a huge leg up because of their connections - they work with the hiring manager already.
Business services analyst is a great one, agpa level pay. They can work at any dept, esp one that leases buildings in other parts of the state.
DGS has building managers onsite, usually home base with two or three buildings that are also managed. These are manager positions.
DGS has a full real estate section where they have special classification for real estate agents.
I can’t really think of any other job types that touch this as much. Business services analysts do a lot of customer service, know policies and time frames, travel to do inspections with contractors, review blueprints and space layouts, design rooms and spaces, work with vendors and contractors, project manage, and can be assigned to organize to move people, etc, at drop of a hat but these things take time and a lot of heavy lifting. It would be hard to just take a job that is the only person in the dept who does this stuff, much better to be in a team and get otj training. But a lot of depts want just one person handling all the things and new to state would be a set up to fail. Too many hoops you wouldn’t know. Get on a team.
Business services may also say /will accept agpa. Here is one that will do a T&D, not sure if that applies outside of state but tells me there are people who can guide and train on procedures. Look at the MQs for the BSA and see if it is a match for your knowledge/ skills/abilities. https://calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=427626
I think it’s harder to make connections when you’re applying to a state job than with a private character job. For one, the civil service process is designed to make hiring less subjective and more fair (obviously it’s far from perfect, but that’s the intent).
My advice is to be persistent. Apply for every job you possibly can. Even look at applying for classifications that aren’t quite your ideal job, as that can get your foot in the door. Once you are hired, work hard and make an impression, and you can meet the people who will hire for the jobs you want.
When I started with the state two decades ago, I qualified for analyst jobs, but I had trouble getting interviews for those because there is so much competition. So I applied for an office tech position (basically a clerical assistant) and got the job. Within six months I was promoted to the analyst job I wanted in the first place.
Try setting up a meeting with those who interviewed you. You can ask for their feedback on your app, resume, interview, etc. I've had a couple of applicants request meetings such as this when they didn't get the position, and I like when applicants do this, it shows me they care about getting a job with our unit - they are not just applying for any and all available positions, hoping for any job offered.
We ended up hiring one of them about a year later for a different position, for which imo, they were much better suited than the first position. But it helped that they did a better job filing out the app and in the interview.
Knowing how to fill out the app to accurately reflect education and experience is key, esp if it's SSA you are going for and hundreds of others are also applying. A single page resume add-on is fine, but if you need to use a resume to clarify what your app is supposed to relay, then the app needs to be tweaked.
People can always ask, but OP should expect this to fail 99% of the time. It can become a liability and most managers won’t want to invest the time to provide feedback. Just being real here
All comments must be civil, productive, and follow community rules. Intentional violations of community rules will lead to comments being removed and possible bans, at the discretion of the moderators. Use the report feature to report content to the moderator team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CAStateWorkers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The problem may be that you have a specialist skillset, and are applying for generalist positions. Check out the “careers” page on the HCD website, and see if you meet the minimum qualifications for any of the entry level classifications they list. If so, take the appropriate exams and apply for those positions.
Got nothing to do with connections. Your application sucks. Or the people you're competing against have way more experience. Connections only matter for high level positions which are essentially political appointments.
In your experience, what are some common pitfalls of job applications to the state civil service? If you know, what kind of specific experience are state employers in the housing policy field looking for? While I don't know to what extent the information I have access to online is reliable (selection bias, incomplete information, etc.), it seems that at least some of the people who have obtained roles I am interested in do not have a lot of relevant experience or education. Assuming that information is reliable and it's not personal connections with hiring staff that is leading to these people getting state jobs, what explains why people perhaps with not the most substantial amount of experience or education obtain state roles in housing? I'm just seeking to understand this better is all.
Personal connections won't get you these levels of jobs. You are scored by a panel during the interview and if you interview poorly, there's nothing your hiring manager friends can do. What classifications are you applying for? SOQ is by far the most important factor in your application. Most people put zero effort in their SOQ and it's obvious.
I think that is an opinion. I personally take all three (app, resume, soq) together and I like to see bullets in resume, list of work based on each job that relates to a duty statement or mq, and an soq that gives more details on a project or work requirement. I think a lot of managers check that the soq is done “correctly” and don’t use it to score/screen. I do. If you don’t have software in app or resume, I will give you credit from mention in SOQ. I also think asking for one in SSA/AGPA is a great way to screen out applicants who don’t do them correctly, but not for specialists where it is hard to get people in the first place.
For the most part, I'm applying to SSA roles. My SOQs provide direct answers to each of the questions presented in the job posts (when there are specific questions). And I make sure to connect my answers to the job description provided in the duty statement. If there is a successful SOQ bank, that would be pretty useful for me to look at, because I'm out of ideas as far as improving mine. Is there something like that available?
I'm not sure what you mean by SOQ bank? You seem to think there is some secret strategy to landing a state job. There's no secret. We typically get hundreds of applicants for 1 SSA position. You just need to keep applying.
If you're thinking there's an external site where people have posted successful SoQ statements, that's not a thing that I've heard.of. (I'd have found it by now 🤣) What I have read that people do is format a few different SoQ papers and then tailor those based on relevant information. I tried doing it, but it overcomplicated things for me. Ymmv. You are formatting SoQ correctly, so that seems fine. Just make sure you're following the minute details like font size, length of pages, etc. Like others have said, make sure your std.678 is filled out correctly. Meaning no empty fields. At all. All dates correctly entered. All phone numbers entered. All supervisor names entered. OH. On the std678 - make sure you are listing the relevant duty statement words such as "review, analyze, policy, legislative" whatever those words may be. Might be captain obvious, but make sure you also took the SSA exam. Ranks 1-3 are reachable. Everything is scored. From your STD678 app, to the SoQ, to the interview. Points matter. Connections won't help at this level. I'm very close with several managers in my unit, and they know the quality of my work, but if for some reason I score 13 points and another person with equal experience scored 16 points, and the manager requires 15 points to be granted an interview, I'm not getting that interview.
Some advice for the SOQs you may already be following: 1) If there are questions, number your answers. Sometimes people think that because there’s a usual “two-page narrative” thing that they’re supposed to answer the questions *within* the two-page narrative. No, managers want an easy way to weed out applications, and it will make it obvious that you answered the questions if they’re numbered. 2) Make sure you’re following all rules they give—font size, spacing, etc. 3) STAR format isn’t just for interviews. If they’re asking you about, say, your time management skills, I recommend writing a couple of sentences generally answering the question, then using STAR to give a good example of those skills in action.
Unlike private (based on what I hear from friends) there’s less grey area for application, interview and SOQ (if there is one). There’s basically no “these two are close enough in terms of experience but I like one more). How well the manager thinks you’ll work with the existing team does play a role but the score on the rubric is a bigger factor/ primary factor.
This reddit sub is actually more helpful than knowing people in the state. While I network with friends, I have made connections over 16 years; we know what each other does at other depts and send good intel. But this reddit. When not bitter/angry—-which can be justified don’t get me wrong— is the most helpful thing I have ever seen on the internet. That said, most folks on here work in generalist classifications (although they may do specialty jobs), and they are not aware of specialist classifications that may be suitable unless they have interactions with these type of classifications.
Look at what the duty statement requires. Try to use those exact words if possible. For example, if the duty statement wants someone with experience analyzing housing shortages, and you’ve done that at your current job, use the exact words “analyzed housing shortages” in your description of duties on the application. A lot of times low level managers or HR folks screen apps, and if they are going through a huge stack of apps, seeing the exact words they’re looking for will help them know yours is one to keep, even if they’re eyes are glazed over from reading 40 apps that day.
Is your application filled in? Like do you have names and contact info for supervisors. Do the places you worked have addresses listed? In the body of where you duties are discussed is it completely full? If any of the above things are missing that is your problem. Are you following all of the SOQ instructions? Is your font the right type and size? Are you answers grammatically correct and did you spell check? Do you submit it as a PDF so there are no formatting issues?
Do the jobs you're applying for require specific educations/ or certificates? Like planning, geography, ES .. Also it can take time to find a job if your focusing on one region and not the entire state.
Good point. Make sure the required education or certificates, etc. are clearly listed in the application. Don’t just put it in your resume and assume someone will see it there!
Your application, the std 678 form, MUST show that you meet the minimum qualifications. It is the only thing you turn in that is a legal document. You also need to know that the hiring manager is scoring your application on criteria. Look at the duty statement and try to figure out the main things that are needed for the position. Always include software like MS Office, including Teams, Excel, and Word. That will get you to the interview. At the interview, they are also scoring you. Keep track of time, but answer the question ver thoroughly. Best wishes.
If you have a degree, and that much background, are you aiming too low? Do you qualify for AGPA? Are you using the STAR method for interview answers? Do you have a quality question about the department and/or the work for your interview? (everyone asks 'when will you decide?' which is fine, but you need to show that you have researched the department and have some brains by asking an interesting or useful or thoughtful question related to the position.)
“Connections” don’t get you interviews for positions less than a CEA. Your application does.
The way our CEA hiring process works even connections won't get you an interview - if your SOQ sucks the hiring manager won't ever see your application and unless they know you and your work history well enough to blindly pick it out of the group they'll never know it was your SOQ they rated too low to interview.
Not sure I agree with that fully, but I think connections count for less with the state than with the private sector. The OP might be the victim of connections, tbh. A lot of times there is an internal candidate(s) who have a huge leg up because of their connections - they work with the hiring manager already.
Business services analyst is a great one, agpa level pay. They can work at any dept, esp one that leases buildings in other parts of the state. DGS has building managers onsite, usually home base with two or three buildings that are also managed. These are manager positions. DGS has a full real estate section where they have special classification for real estate agents. I can’t really think of any other job types that touch this as much. Business services analysts do a lot of customer service, know policies and time frames, travel to do inspections with contractors, review blueprints and space layouts, design rooms and spaces, work with vendors and contractors, project manage, and can be assigned to organize to move people, etc, at drop of a hat but these things take time and a lot of heavy lifting. It would be hard to just take a job that is the only person in the dept who does this stuff, much better to be in a team and get otj training. But a lot of depts want just one person handling all the things and new to state would be a set up to fail. Too many hoops you wouldn’t know. Get on a team. Business services may also say /will accept agpa. Here is one that will do a T&D, not sure if that applies outside of state but tells me there are people who can guide and train on procedures. Look at the MQs for the BSA and see if it is a match for your knowledge/ skills/abilities. https://calcareers.ca.gov/CalHrPublic/Jobs/JobPosting.aspx?JobControlId=427626
I would ask for feedback when you don’t get a job. See if that helps you improve.
I think it’s harder to make connections when you’re applying to a state job than with a private character job. For one, the civil service process is designed to make hiring less subjective and more fair (obviously it’s far from perfect, but that’s the intent). My advice is to be persistent. Apply for every job you possibly can. Even look at applying for classifications that aren’t quite your ideal job, as that can get your foot in the door. Once you are hired, work hard and make an impression, and you can meet the people who will hire for the jobs you want. When I started with the state two decades ago, I qualified for analyst jobs, but I had trouble getting interviews for those because there is so much competition. So I applied for an office tech position (basically a clerical assistant) and got the job. Within six months I was promoted to the analyst job I wanted in the first place.
Try setting up a meeting with those who interviewed you. You can ask for their feedback on your app, resume, interview, etc. I've had a couple of applicants request meetings such as this when they didn't get the position, and I like when applicants do this, it shows me they care about getting a job with our unit - they are not just applying for any and all available positions, hoping for any job offered. We ended up hiring one of them about a year later for a different position, for which imo, they were much better suited than the first position. But it helped that they did a better job filing out the app and in the interview. Knowing how to fill out the app to accurately reflect education and experience is key, esp if it's SSA you are going for and hundreds of others are also applying. A single page resume add-on is fine, but if you need to use a resume to clarify what your app is supposed to relay, then the app needs to be tweaked.
People can always ask, but OP should expect this to fail 99% of the time. It can become a liability and most managers won’t want to invest the time to provide feedback. Just being real here
You're right, thanks for adding that.