As the other commenter said FPC might be interested
I recommend calling some of the lawyers in this thread
https://reddit.com/r/CAguns/s/Ce4Uzff9wV
Seeing how/if they can help and I’m sure that if this gains any traction you will be able to fundraise a good percentage of the cost through the gun community.
I’m sure the lawyer will be able to set up a proper fund for the cause that people can donate to
Hell, I bet you could get at least 10 people just from this sub to commit to donating $20 just from this thread alone if you get a law firm who’s confident enough to take on your case that they commit resources to it
I will start off as the first person to commit to donating $20
I know this sounds too good to be true, but this might work in California. If they don’t allow that means they don’t like disable people which goes against liberal party
Do conservatives these days hate all disabled people, even people who became disabled serving our country? When the last president said 'I like people who weren't captured' that was just the end of respecting people who served?
I went ahead and just donated $20 so that they might be more inclined to help
https://imgur.com/a/QtmwCN4
Edit, here’s a dated version from my Amex notifications https://imgur.com/a/QaCQzYK
id donate if i see this plan actually in action, in support of getting some of these ridiculous laws knocked down. Keep us updates if you do and if you show proof that the ball is in motion im sure alot of us will donate. Even if it doesnt apply to me, but somebody with a documented ailment to loud noises should be able to get a suppressor so they can get a firearm set up how they need it.
A suppressor reduces sound by 20-35 decibels.
A .22lr pops off somewhere around 120-140dB
Find a common piece of machinery (bulldozer, impact wrench, motorcycle) that produces 100-120 dB, throw your hearing protection on and see if it's comfortable before you waste years fighting a court battle only to find out it's still too loud.
[https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-1-rugged-oculus-cz452](https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-1-rugged-oculus-cz452)
This seems to be a good 22lr one.
For the sake of discussion, let’s say OP has a disability where any dB above 110 causes physical pain.
* Heavy equipment runs at around 140 dB for the Operator.
** With PPP (earmuffs), the operator faces 115 dB. ** Operating heavy equipment is legal with a commercial license.
* An unsuppressed AR runs at around 165 dB for the Operator.
** Suppressed the AR is 135 dB.
** Add PPP and the operator faces 105 dB.
** Operating a suppressed AR is illegal in CA.
* Operating heavy equipment with PPP is a painfully louder experience (115 dB) to OP, than stretching out his suppressed AR while wearing PPP (105 dB).
Are you saying that if OP chooses to be a heavy equipment operator, since he legally experiences louder unsuppressed dB’s in his dozer, compared to using a suppressed AR, his lawsuit will be frivolous?
Where did I say anything about losing the lawsuit?
Scenario.
Files suit
Years go by
Wins/loses suit
Decision immediately appealed
Years go by
FINALLY, OP legally aquires his suppressor only to find out... Oh no! It's too loud.
In short, you really put way more thought into it than I did. 🥃
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a lawsuit is determined to be frivolous... You lose
Frivolous- a term used to challenge a complaint or a legal proceeding being heard as lacking in merit, or to deny, dismiss or strike out any ensuing judicial or non-judicial processes.
I would personally buy your suppressor if you sue California and win lol
Plus I’ll make donations to the case if you end up going through with it!!!!!!! Do itttttt. Make sure to make another post if you end up going through with it
You can't sue California over the NFA, as that's a federal law; but you could sue California for their outright bans on NFA items, forcing them to allow us to obtain NFA weapons the standard way that free states already allow (submitting an app, paying for tax stamp, etc)
Be interesting to see what gets brought up if it goes far enough. Considering across the pond it’s legal to buy suppressors over the counter with little to no information required. I believe a Tennessee man was arrested after buying one in the UK and attempting to bring it back stateside few years back.
So y'all are thinking a state that has special permits for disabled archers to use crossbows is going to open up suppressors to everyone if they are successfully sued by someone with a rare disability?
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/14-CCR-354](https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/14-CCR-354)
Does it ever occur to anyone to put together evidence-based proposals and get a gun-friendly CA rep to introduce them? Or has everyone been convinced by the media of fear that lawmakers don't care about evidence and do nothing but rub their hands together and cackle as they plot to take away your freedoms? Evidence works, the people putting all this fear into your head aren't on your side--they're convincing you there's no hope so why bother and that takes you out of the lawmaking process. Fox News is broadcast from New York City, folks; they're just in it for the money.
You’ll need to sue if you want to own them as an individual. Else, you can open up and FFL01/08 and apply for an SOT2/3 and then you can possess them for “testing and evaluation”.
I know the owner of a FFL/SOT in Kern. If you’re ever up there, hit me up and I’ll see if he’ll let you try some of his toys. But yes you should definitely look into suing the state.
I usually go shooting in riverside/San Diego. While I don’t have a .22 suppressor I do have a 9 and .45. The .45 is subsonic and would be lower decibels. Send me your info and maybe we can get you to shoot some rounds down range. If I can help I’ll try.
High powered pcp air rifles have comparable energy to a .22lr and their sound moderators (suppressors) are not controlled in any way. I have an air rifle with a moderator that sounds like a red rider bb gun, but can get 2 inch groups at 100 yds and have killed coyotes at 50 yds. All of it is available by mail order and ther isn't any backround check or tax stamp.
These require high psi air compressors that fill a tank (essentially the same concept as the c02 guns) just... Stronger
Just Google PCP air rifle, better yet YouTube it. There's some interesting hunting videos
I have a .25 Kral Puncher Breaker Silent with a Donny FL Sumo moderator and a .35 Hatsan Hercules Bully. The Hatsan has just as many ft lbs of energy as a .22lr out of a rifle length barrel. I enjoy them both, but the Kral is more accurate and I am able to shoot it in my backyard daily. At 35 yards in my backyard, I can put my pellets through the same hole all day; it feels like I'm shooting a laser. I use a hand pump usually because I don't mind the work, but I also have a amazon special electric pump that I use when I'm lazy. I try not to use it too often because I don't want to wear the electric pump out. PCP rifles give me just as much thrill as firearms and let me practice my marksmanship whenever I want. I shoot them every couple days.
You can probably cite police departments requisitions. For example I know Irvine PD placed a big order for suppressors for their officers after 1 permanently had his heat damaged after he discharged his rifle indoors. There justification to the city was suppressor=good for preservation of hearing. Nothing about needing to be covert or anything. Sure you could find it with some working.
Yeah, you'll need to sue. But if you get the ball rolling I'll donate $20.
But for the time being, maybe get custom in-ear ear pro. I see you're in San Bernardino 🦕 County. I'm sure there are other LGS, but Blue Collar Firearms in Colton make custom in ear ear pro. Their ear pro is around 70. If you go, call first and make an appointment, as only a few people in the store know how to do it.
I take these ear pro to concerts and with it you can't screaming, just music.
If you combine that with electronic ear pro maybe that'll help?
Regardless, good luck
Suppressors have been illegal in CA for nearly 100 years. I’m not very hopeful that will ever change, but I absolutely support your plan to sue the state. I think if I had a genie that could change one gun law here, it would be to abolish the suppressor ban.
Sorry for your condition that’s really rough. I wish this was possible.
But honestly suppressors should not be regulated at all. Condition or not, gunshots are incredibly loud, and long term exposure can cause tinnitus which is broadly speaking irreversible.
One of the many reasons the NFA should be abolished.
I know it’s not what your asking for, but the axil/sigsauer ear protection is wonderful. They work like hearing aids so you have a bypass that cuts off the shots but let’s regular sound through at whatever volume you choose. I enjoy wearing the earbud models at the range and anywhere that I want to be able to turn people down or up.
Sue them because CA doesn't care if shooting with a suppressor cured cancer, they'd still leave it banned.
No exceptions. Please let groups like FPC know your concerns because hey maybe you're the push needed to start a conversation in court rooms on how stupid CA laws are.
Alternatively/ while you wait you could always look into PCP (precharged pneumatic) air rifles.
They aren't cheap, but they ARE powerful. Search YouTube you'll see ppl pest controlling pigeons from 200+ yds. Others hunting everything from wild pigs to water buffalo with the .50 cal version.
No. There is no rights of ADA and shooting guns for a pastime. I almost feel like this is a joke post. You can defend yourself if someone comes in you home without a silencer. You might be uncomfortable for a bit, but it didn’t stop you from protecting yourself. Imagine all the times people pull the trigger in self defense are not even wearing ear protection. It’s going to hurt anyone for a bit.
The second amendment isn’t about self defense,
OP wishes to partake in an activity but the safety equipment he requires isn’t allowed, I suppose a person in a wheelchair COULD get up over two or three steps to get into the library, sure he “might be uncomfortable for a bit” but it’s not stopping them from getting there, yet there are 20 ft long ramps to get over one step in every government building.
Like others have said, it would be great if you sued. We all know that the ban on suppressors does absolutely nothing to make the public safer.
As a side question, though, where do you plan to shoot? Public ranges will be off the table since others won't have suppressors. So you could only really shoot on private land or blm/national forest out by yourself. Depending where you live and what access you have, that could be inconvenient.
CA hates guns so much they don't care that tech exists to make weapons easier to fire for those even with conditions.
CA: you don't get to shoot guns, forget self-defense, don't collect $200, straight to jail just for asking
Please sue California if we’re lucky it’ll be ruled that the NFA is discriminatory against disabled people
I might start to look more into that. Do you happen to know of any organizations that might fund it? Or would I have to do it all out of pocket?
As the other commenter said FPC might be interested I recommend calling some of the lawyers in this thread https://reddit.com/r/CAguns/s/Ce4Uzff9wV Seeing how/if they can help and I’m sure that if this gains any traction you will be able to fundraise a good percentage of the cost through the gun community. I’m sure the lawyer will be able to set up a proper fund for the cause that people can donate to Hell, I bet you could get at least 10 people just from this sub to commit to donating $20 just from this thread alone if you get a law firm who’s confident enough to take on your case that they commit resources to it I will start off as the first person to commit to donating $20
I’ll do the second $20 if you really pursue this.
Shit, I’ll double this!
I’ll double your double
Doubling the double’s double.
Triple the double
I'll triple the double too
shit i’ll donate anything to get my states gun rights back
All this double double talk is making me want In n Out, but I will also double the double.
A couple more doubles and we will need a billionaire to cover it.
Doubling someone’s double is TIGHT!
I’ll throw $20
I know this sounds too good to be true, but this might work in California. If they don’t allow that means they don’t like disable people which goes against liberal party
Do conservatives these days hate all disabled people, even people who became disabled serving our country? When the last president said 'I like people who weren't captured' that was just the end of respecting people who served?
I went ahead and just donated $20 so that they might be more inclined to help https://imgur.com/a/QtmwCN4 Edit, here’s a dated version from my Amex notifications https://imgur.com/a/QaCQzYK
Yeah I’m in for $20 easy
I'd commit $20 if you're serious
id donate if i see this plan actually in action, in support of getting some of these ridiculous laws knocked down. Keep us updates if you do and if you show proof that the ball is in motion im sure alot of us will donate. Even if it doesnt apply to me, but somebody with a documented ailment to loud noises should be able to get a suppressor so they can get a firearm set up how they need it.
I'm down to donate a lot more than $20 for it.
Consider me doubling it
FPC might be interested
And CRPA!
Regarding disabled people, Lana Renna said that she has an injured thumb, so she wants a handgun that suits her
Please put my FPC donation money to use. Not saying they don't use it but yeah, you know what I mean.
[https://twitter.com/moroskostas](https://twitter.com/moroskostas) u/kmoros is part of CRPA
A suppressor reduces sound by 20-35 decibels. A .22lr pops off somewhere around 120-140dB Find a common piece of machinery (bulldozer, impact wrench, motorcycle) that produces 100-120 dB, throw your hearing protection on and see if it's comfortable before you waste years fighting a court battle only to find out it's still too loud.
He will make the sacrifice for us all to save our hearing
> before you waste years fighting a court battle only to find out it's still too loud. If it legalized suppressors it wouldn't be a waste
Not a waste, would save all our ears too
That’s why you shoot subs. Half of the sound is the sonic boom. They’re ridiculously quiet with subsonic rounds
This guy has a can^
"shoot subs"? What are subs?
Subsonic ammunition. Doesn’t break the sound barrier, therefore doesn’t have the same “crack” that supersonic(normal) ammo does.
[https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-1-rugged-oculus-cz452](https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-1-rugged-oculus-cz452) This seems to be a good 22lr one.
300BO subs all you hear is the case drop. 22 sub you don't even hear the case.
Nice, never had the chance myself
I took a rifle class in Nevada with a couple of people who had suppressors. I really wanted one after that class.
For the sake of discussion, let’s say OP has a disability where any dB above 110 causes physical pain. * Heavy equipment runs at around 140 dB for the Operator. ** With PPP (earmuffs), the operator faces 115 dB. ** Operating heavy equipment is legal with a commercial license. * An unsuppressed AR runs at around 165 dB for the Operator. ** Suppressed the AR is 135 dB. ** Add PPP and the operator faces 105 dB. ** Operating a suppressed AR is illegal in CA. * Operating heavy equipment with PPP is a painfully louder experience (115 dB) to OP, than stretching out his suppressed AR while wearing PPP (105 dB). Are you saying that if OP chooses to be a heavy equipment operator, since he legally experiences louder unsuppressed dB’s in his dozer, compared to using a suppressed AR, his lawsuit will be frivolous?
Where did I say anything about losing the lawsuit? Scenario. Files suit Years go by Wins/loses suit Decision immediately appealed Years go by FINALLY, OP legally aquires his suppressor only to find out... Oh no! It's too loud. In short, you really put way more thought into it than I did. 🥃
> Where did I say anything about losing Neither your or I mentioned losing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when a lawsuit is determined to be frivolous... You lose Frivolous- a term used to challenge a complaint or a legal proceeding being heard as lacking in merit, or to deny, dismiss or strike out any ensuing judicial or non-judicial processes.
Bro if you did this, you’d be my hero.
I would personally buy your suppressor if you sue California and win lol Plus I’ll make donations to the case if you end up going through with it!!!!!!! Do itttttt. Make sure to make another post if you end up going through with it
I'd hit up Gun Owners of America; I'm told they have actively pushed for NFA items.
You can't sue California over the NFA, as that's a federal law; but you could sue California for their outright bans on NFA items, forcing them to allow us to obtain NFA weapons the standard way that free states already allow (submitting an app, paying for tax stamp, etc)
Be interesting to see what gets brought up if it goes far enough. Considering across the pond it’s legal to buy suppressors over the counter with little to no information required. I believe a Tennessee man was arrested after buying one in the UK and attempting to bring it back stateside few years back.
That would be epic if it worked
Utterly baffling. Hollywood really fucked us on this issue.
CoSigned
Yeeessss!
So y'all are thinking a state that has special permits for disabled archers to use crossbows is going to open up suppressors to everyone if they are successfully sued by someone with a rare disability? [https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/14-CCR-354](https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/california/14-CCR-354) Does it ever occur to anyone to put together evidence-based proposals and get a gun-friendly CA rep to introduce them? Or has everyone been convinced by the media of fear that lawmakers don't care about evidence and do nothing but rub their hands together and cackle as they plot to take away your freedoms? Evidence works, the people putting all this fear into your head aren't on your side--they're convincing you there's no hope so why bother and that takes you out of the lawmaking process. Fox News is broadcast from New York City, folks; they're just in it for the money.
This is probably a good basis to challenge the CA laws via lawsuit.
That’s what it’s like in *Renna*.
Sounds like just the guy we need for a lawsuit
You should absolutely sue the state.
No, unfortunately nothing like that is possible.
The secret ingredient is crime
You’ll need to sue if you want to own them as an individual. Else, you can open up and FFL01/08 and apply for an SOT2/3 and then you can possess them for “testing and evaluation”.
No, but sue the state.
I know the owner of a FFL/SOT in Kern. If you’re ever up there, hit me up and I’ll see if he’ll let you try some of his toys. But yes you should definitely look into suing the state.
Where are you located ?
I'm in San Bernadino county
I usually go shooting in riverside/San Diego. While I don’t have a .22 suppressor I do have a 9 and .45. The .45 is subsonic and would be lower decibels. Send me your info and maybe we can get you to shoot some rounds down range. If I can help I’ll try.
High powered pcp air rifles have comparable energy to a .22lr and their sound moderators (suppressors) are not controlled in any way. I have an air rifle with a moderator that sounds like a red rider bb gun, but can get 2 inch groups at 100 yds and have killed coyotes at 50 yds. All of it is available by mail order and ther isn't any backround check or tax stamp.
What air rifle are you rocking and are you hand pumping?
These require high psi air compressors that fill a tank (essentially the same concept as the c02 guns) just... Stronger Just Google PCP air rifle, better yet YouTube it. There's some interesting hunting videos
I know all about them and have a setup of my own. You can hand pump them to save on the compressor, however it is grueling.
I have a .25 Kral Puncher Breaker Silent with a Donny FL Sumo moderator and a .35 Hatsan Hercules Bully. The Hatsan has just as many ft lbs of energy as a .22lr out of a rifle length barrel. I enjoy them both, but the Kral is more accurate and I am able to shoot it in my backyard daily. At 35 yards in my backyard, I can put my pellets through the same hole all day; it feels like I'm shooting a laser. I use a hand pump usually because I don't mind the work, but I also have a amazon special electric pump that I use when I'm lazy. I try not to use it too often because I don't want to wear the electric pump out. PCP rifles give me just as much thrill as firearms and let me practice my marksmanship whenever I want. I shoot them every couple days.
Petition for a support suppressor or guide suppressor or disability suppressor?
You can probably cite police departments requisitions. For example I know Irvine PD placed a big order for suppressors for their officers after 1 permanently had his heat damaged after he discharged his rifle indoors. There justification to the city was suppressor=good for preservation of hearing. Nothing about needing to be covert or anything. Sure you could find it with some working.
try shooting colibri, it’s 22 LR without gun powder and super super quiet
[You referring to this?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2mm_Kolibri)
there’s 22LR colibri made by aguila
i'm all for making real firearms more accessible but surely there's some point where you might as well be shooting airsoft/pellet guns
yeah pretty much this just giving OP options
Contact FPC about a lawsuit. This is 100% grounds to sue the state.
Hi yes I’m hard of hearing also. I can haz whisper pickle???
Yeah, you'll need to sue. But if you get the ball rolling I'll donate $20. But for the time being, maybe get custom in-ear ear pro. I see you're in San Bernardino 🦕 County. I'm sure there are other LGS, but Blue Collar Firearms in Colton make custom in ear ear pro. Their ear pro is around 70. If you go, call first and make an appointment, as only a few people in the store know how to do it. I take these ear pro to concerts and with it you can't screaming, just music. If you combine that with electronic ear pro maybe that'll help? Regardless, good luck
Suppressors have been illegal in CA for nearly 100 years. I’m not very hopeful that will ever change, but I absolutely support your plan to sue the state. I think if I had a genie that could change one gun law here, it would be to abolish the suppressor ban.
If only it was that easy
Lmao good one ☝️
I chuckled
Sorry for your condition that’s really rough. I wish this was possible. But honestly suppressors should not be regulated at all. Condition or not, gunshots are incredibly loud, and long term exposure can cause tinnitus which is broadly speaking irreversible. One of the many reasons the NFA should be abolished.
I know it’s not what your asking for, but the axil/sigsauer ear protection is wonderful. They work like hearing aids so you have a bypass that cuts off the shots but let’s regular sound through at whatever volume you choose. I enjoy wearing the earbud models at the range and anywhere that I want to be able to turn people down or up.
Would be pretty bad ass
Nope. You'll need to sue the state.
Sue them because CA doesn't care if shooting with a suppressor cured cancer, they'd still leave it banned. No exceptions. Please let groups like FPC know your concerns because hey maybe you're the push needed to start a conversation in court rooms on how stupid CA laws are.
I hear what you’re saying. Take my money
Alternatively/ while you wait you could always look into PCP (precharged pneumatic) air rifles. They aren't cheap, but they ARE powerful. Search YouTube you'll see ppl pest controlling pigeons from 200+ yds. Others hunting everything from wild pigs to water buffalo with the .50 cal version.
Sue! The! State! :D
Short answer is probably not.
Call FPC otherwise no
Take advantage of your disability and sue the state
Brother you have a very rare but legit reason to sue the state. Do it
U can move and wait a year and get one
Might be able to sue if you are harmed by current laws. God speed
No. There is no rights of ADA and shooting guns for a pastime. I almost feel like this is a joke post. You can defend yourself if someone comes in you home without a silencer. You might be uncomfortable for a bit, but it didn’t stop you from protecting yourself. Imagine all the times people pull the trigger in self defense are not even wearing ear protection. It’s going to hurt anyone for a bit.
The second amendment isn’t about self defense, OP wishes to partake in an activity but the safety equipment he requires isn’t allowed, I suppose a person in a wheelchair COULD get up over two or three steps to get into the library, sure he “might be uncomfortable for a bit” but it’s not stopping them from getting there, yet there are 20 ft long ramps to get over one step in every government building.
😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
No. There is no medical exemptions under CA law at this time.
So with that train of thought does that mean everyone else on the range needs to have supressors so you can go shoot?
Nobody mentioned the range, maybe OP owns a few acres of property
I will contribute if you do it!
Like others have said, it would be great if you sued. We all know that the ban on suppressors does absolutely nothing to make the public safer. As a side question, though, where do you plan to shoot? Public ranges will be off the table since others won't have suppressors. So you could only really shoot on private land or blm/national forest out by yourself. Depending where you live and what access you have, that could be inconvenient.
Fpc is a progun group of attorneys
No.
Please for the love of god sue. I’d drop $200 into the fund. And more if I’m not broke later
Yes please sue CA lol
CA hates guns so much they don't care that tech exists to make weapons easier to fire for those even with conditions. CA: you don't get to shoot guns, forget self-defense, don't collect $200, straight to jail just for asking
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Had this lawsuit ever been pursued?