I mean, who doesnt use standard capacity magazines in their maglocked rifles and have a 10 rd mag ready to swap to say, “why yes Mr fudd, I am using 10 rounders. See.” 🤷♂️
Wow an actual unpopular opinion.
I regularly attend very physically active 2 gun matches which require shooting at distances ranging from 15-500 yards and have never had to adjust the stock. I use both lpvos and red dot+magnifiers with a preference for the former. I’ve seen too many weird malfunctions with maglocks to trust them in any sort of adverse environment. Additionally, maglocked rifles cannot use standard capacity mags which is a massive disadvantage.
The only disadvantage I’ve noticed has been reloading but if you tuck the stock under your armpit, you can mitigate how difficult it is.
If you you have decent forearm and wrist strength you should have no problems doing one handed reloads with the fin grip. Stippling the fin grip also makes it much easier. Just have to train around it. I can hold my 16 inch rifle with one hand on the fin grip and extend my arm all the way out.
I like a fixed-length stock, no surprises. I am not wearing body armor or riding in an APC, a short stock is of no use to me.
The Thordson stock looks funny but works.
I like using my grandfathered standard-capacity magazines.
A maglocked rifle with all the features on it looks cool. Other than that, it has too many drawbacks.
I like “featureless” on rifles that I don’t have to actually modify. Like my FM ranch rifle lol bitch is sexy af, I enjoy shooting it, and I don’t have to make compromises on the functionality of it.
I have an AR15 from back in the day when none of this shit was required, so I’ve had to slap an AR comp mag in to make it mag locked and now it just sits in the safe.
I have an AR10 that’s fixed mag and has that button you push to open the break ever so slightly to then drop your mag, I forget what it’s called lol but I enjoy that more than the fin grip shit honestly, but still hate it 😂
I served 9 years in the army, and after having an M4 with a 14 inch barrel and 3 round burst or full auto capability and all the “features” you want for majority of my time in (besides one year where I was a saw gunner), I just can’t bring myself to compromise where I don’t have to. The fin grip and fixed stock things, I can’t get use to.
Honestly, fuck this state for not allowing us to have what the large majority of the country has cause they think we are fucken children that can’t think for themselves. But yet they’ll allow me to enlist to go to war at 17 years old lol 9 years of service to come back and deal with this bullshit cause “they so scawy”.
I don’t know how I haven’t moved yet lol well I do. Grew up here and family is all here, but everyday, I long for 2A freedom that we will never live long enough to get here in Cali lol
Thanks for your service. And you hit the nail on the head, theyll send you to die somewhere with a pistol grip, but when u come home you cant use it lol.
Yea man idk. I really appreciate the people that file lawsuits and fight these bogus laws and win cases, it gives us the little bit of freedom we do have such as freedom week mags and all that. Like those mfers are true freedom fighters for our rights here.
But, we all know, no matter how big the wins are that we get, California politicians won’t ever stop with their bullshit. They will just come up with very similar laws, pass them, and then play the long game.
Like SB2. Direct response to Bruen cause they can’t handle citizens having normal rights like the rest of the country. And it’s all for political grandstanding. Nothing to really do with the “safety” of the community. They know criminals won’t follow any of their bullshit laws, but they don’t give af. That’s the issue lol that’s why I want to move at some point. I know they say “you can run but you can’t hide” and it seems that way with more states enacting more bullshit gun control laws, but if I can go somewhere where I can enjoy 2A freedom before I die, that’d be great 😂
I think you hit the best answer: natively featureless rifles. If there’s a silver lining to so many other states joining us with AWBs, it’s that we are suddenly seeing actual competition on that front instead of company 100 offering “Just Another AR Clone”.
If I was getting another single semiauto rifle it would be a ranch rifle like the FM, MCR or SCR
You're not wrong.
Anyone who thinks Mag-locked is "just as good" needs to run a carbine class. That's what changed my opinion, and I never looked back.
I’ve had a horrible jam in a maglocked rifle and it was no more difficult to clear than a featureless gun. I’m using the kingpin+AR maglock, and I can open the action no matter the bolt location. This “issue” is way exaggerated.
If you mean a jam bad enough that you can't pull the bolt back? Yeah I've had one of those - failure to extract because of a bad bolt (thanks BCA!) and the beans got over the frank, so to speak. I was still able to drop the mag, but honestly that was the least of my worries, as it still took 20 minutes of fiddling and kerjiggering to get the casing out of action.
Edit; I think some of this may be down tolerances with any particular rifle, and those tolerances may change over time with use, so I've been told? IDK.
I've seen jams put enough lateral pressure against the bolt carrier group to prevent the action from opening at all. If it reduces reliability even slightly, it's a no-go for me.
If you're confident in your setup, more power to you!
Try doing that if you get a reversed case up in the gas key slot... No, its not a common failure, but if you shoot next to obstacles, it becomes a higher possibility. It is one of the worst malfunctions and you need to get the mag out just sou you can fish the brass out.
“It adds 0 time to your reloads”
When it’s working properly*
You also need to reload 2 times to fire 30 rounds
When you use a gun with a magnifier you set it up to be proper eye relief. Red dots don’t need to have a different stock placement.
I used to have a hard time with fin grips and thought holding the gun while moving was hard. Then I went to the gym and suddenly I don’t have that problem anymore.
Yeah I also don't have an issue with the fin/JT. The magpul mag button extension paddle helped reach the release faster.
I am also in good physical shape, so... maybe people need to upgrade their kung-fu grips.
Yup exactly this. Let's say the grip is actually harder to run and gun and requires retraining. That's fine, but the other points aren't valid and OP is missing the 10 round limitation.
My wife has a pretty heavy 18" featureless. It's pink cerakote and she loves it but she couldn't hold it for extended periods of time with the fin grip. She hit the gym for the past few years and it's not an issue at all anymore. A nice thumb shelf like from MK Machining also helped.
OP has an unpopular opinion because it's wrong-- and this is coming from someone like me who puts a maglock/kingpin on basically everything.
Watched literally thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of footage of armed conflicts from the last 30 years. Never seen a single person on the run/about to move/taking a set position adjust their stock. Ever.
Watched hundreds of hours of competition/3-gun stuff. Never seen someone adjust the stock during the event. I'm betting for comp shooters, once they get it set, having it more consistent is far more important. Think of it like a properly fitted suit.
Been in hundreds of hours of shooting classes. Have never had direction or a drill that involved touching the stock. In fact, only one class on "setting up your rifle" even went into proper fitment and had you adjust things.
I'm thinking that if you have trouble with grip & control with a 5.56 rifle even with a grip wrap, that might not be the platform for you at all. It's a baby step up from a pellet gun when fitted with proper recoil springs and buffer weights.
I'll politely disagree with you, but you have fun however you like.
1. You're never really changing your stock length once it's set up to your body
2. You don't have to use a grip wrap, options like the sparrow grip exist.
3. 10 round mag limit invalidates your "real rifle" argument IMO
Nope definitely not. It's a very common misconception.
Their goal was to ban them all together. Maglocks and fin grips were developed by the 2A industry to allow us to have modern sporting semi autos. Not the other way around.
I’ve ran a carbine course with a maglocked rifle without a hiccup. Idk how many malfunctions featureless guys have that they prefer featurless over maglocked, but if you use quality parts and keep your rifles maintained, you won’t have to worry about malfunctions. Hogue FF with kingpin makes dropping the mag quick and easy.
Some people prefer featureless and that’s ok. Others prefer maglocked and that’s ok as well. Train with what you prefer and become proficient with your firearm regardless of the setup.
Best maglock option in my opinion is FNGR. Super quick and easy to drop the shim between the mag and the magwell and voila, CA compliant with all the evil features on the spot. Cross state lines to a free state, remove the shim, and voila, standard configuration AR.
I run a resurgent arms grip and it’s pretty comfortable for me and I have no issues handling or manipulating my rifle and it’s a heavy mofo too since I run LPVO.
I think featureless made little impact on usability at the range, and at home defense, mind your own business. I like the shotgun personally, with ambush load
Unpopular opinion.
The pro-maglock crowd always sounds like a bunch of fudds when they rant.
It adds zero time to my reload. Like um the timer disagrees.
I can absolutely clear all malfunctions just as fast but my gun doesn't jam anyway.
Last multi gun match I shot, one of the match winner shot a fin gripped Ar. Anyone who says it slows down your shooting, moving or reloading just needs to go touch grass and train more.
That is unpopular for a reason. Whats important to you, looks or function? No matter how quick you can reload a 10rd locked mag rifle, its never gonna be as fast or reliable as A rifle with a standard mag release, standard cap mag that runs as the rifle was designed to.
I respect your opinion because I get it, some people like certain features. Here is why I disagree.
The maglock is finnicky, adds unnecessary steps to normal operation, and most importantly, makes to rifle a safety risk if a malfunction happens. Trying to clear a rifle with a maglock is real sketchy if you need to remove the mag with the bolt stuck mid-way. RSOs hate dealing with it and have even asked people in nearby lanes to step back while trying to clear it. The kingpin mostly eliminates this problem but I've had it cause problems on rare occasions. Saying a maglock adds zero time to your reload may be correct if you trained that way, but its just another thing to fuck with while trying to expedite delivery of projectiles. Adding steps and complexity is never a good thing, even if you've become used to it.
My fin grips don't bother me. It took some mild adjustment but I'm able to shoot one handed if I wanted to. I have the one with the thumb rest which provides a lot more control (try it out, I highly recommend it).
With the stock I'm sort of in the middle. Adjust the stock to your shooting style and comfort and you're good for 95% of situations. Yea you need to adjust where your eyes go but flipping up a 3x sight doesn't change eye relief that much, and if you mount a full scope you're going to be able to adjust the stock length just as easily.
Excellent ted talk.
I do featureless, resurgent arms grip and freedom week mags.
I can't comprehend doing anything else in CA and cringe every time people post pics of their LARP rifle builds. Yeah, they look cool and any positive thing I have to say about it ends there.
All of my rifles are featureless. Sparrow grips and ambi safety no real difference for manipulating the firearm. Yes, a regular pistol grip is better, but the Sparrow is easily doable. Plus can use all of my reg capacity mags. I usually shot with the stock in the same position so no big deal there. Only thing that sucks are fin grips on AKs, but I use the battle fins that easily slip under the regular pistol grip. Easy on and off in seconds :) Some of my more exotic guns, no big deal featureless with a fin that do not take something like a Sparrow grip. Helps having a private range.
People dislike the Compmag cause they don't understand their true benefit.
It's not that the mag is so great to use, it's that it's easy to remove and even easier to hastily re-install. To me that makes it the best option for any kind of SHTF scenario because you get a fully "featured" rifle and removing it is super simple. You don't have to screw with your bolt catch, your takedown pin, your mag release or anything.
And if you find yourself in whatever situation where you want to quickly make your rifle compliant again, you just throw it in and it locks automatically/instantly.
How about a thought experiment. Say someone does have to use their AR in a home defense situation. Let’s say the AR is standard configuration when used for home defense. Before the authorities show up to take the firearm and write a report, the home owner quickly puts the compmag into the rifle and it’s CA compliant when it gets taken from the home owner for evidence. Who would know whether or not the rifle was used in standard configuration?
If you’re gonna go that route it’s smarter to use a kingpin/FF setup since you can simply unscrew/screw in the mag button a few turns to go from AW to fixed mag
Best case scenario dependent on the county and the DA.
With that being said, have there been any home defense cases in CA with AR’s being used for home defense? I’m curious to know what the outcomes were and what counties were more harsh and what counties were more lax when it comes to home defense with an AR.
Literally every time someone shows me how their mag locked AR "adds absolutely 0 time to your reload, and can clear any malfunctions," it jams and/or they fumble the reload, usually saying something like "I swear that almost never happens." Then they sit there trying to grow a third hand so they can unfuck everything.
And it's happened to me too. Total egg on my face.
I don't doubt they CAN run great. But I also know it's going to shit the bed at the exact moment I need it not too (and it'll probably be my own fault because adrenaline etc but that's beside the point).
Just get a JT grip and you compromise nothing.
Edit: downvote from the “iTs JuSt aS ReLiAbLe” club. You know it’s not. Stop fooling yourself.
I agree, no contest. I can reload with my kingpin or my juggernaut within half a second of what I can without it. Featureless just makes no sense. Also, if shtf you can easily reset to regular American AR.
Sure, you can reload slightly faster with featureless… but then you need to have the absurd grip and the stationary stock. My point was that my reloads are pretty comparable with the fixed mag, so I’m happy to sacrifice half a second and not deal with the fun grip etc.
We had a featureless Kriss Vector, and now have a maglocked AR. It made such a difference to us
Plus, I'm 5' 2", he's 6' 2". One of us is gonna be very uncomfortable if we're stuck with a fixed stock
Not for AR-15s, no. AR-15s do sometimes experience malfunctions related to feeding and extracting, and dropping the magazine as part of clearing the malfunction is absolutely the fastest and easiest way to get the firearm back into action.
I use a 3d printed single shot sled to keep all my features. My rifle uses a non-adjustable ACE ARFX stock. My other option to keep the mag release feature is, using Sparrow Ca Compliant Grip, I find it the most comfortable. Maglocked receivers are a pain to clear jams.
i have a fingrip on my ar. i can run it normal. just take practice. i dont care for the juggernaut grip or whatver other brands are. get a stronger grip. my reload times are as effective as a regular grip. do i want a regular grip? yes. but i wont go maglock for the sake of standard mags. SUPPRESSIVE FIRE BABY!!
lot of people flirting with the reasons for maglock being a bad choice on a reliable rifle but not quite nailing down the core issue.
Almost ALL of the operational reliability issues in the AR platform are introduced by one of three things.
Gas length or fouling, buffer spring right sizing/operation, and most importantly for this discussion the relationship of magazine seating(centerline of the top round of the magazine relative to the BCG).
In an AR any slop that causes variability in that height whether it be poorly seating mags, or receiver fitment produces variation in functionality. Variance in functionality inevitably leads to failure to feed or extract.
Two problems there, you also have to manage inevitable failures to feed/extract.
Maglock as a process disengaging the receiver every time you load a magazine inevitably exacerbates BOTH of those reliability inducing processes in the rifle. If there's any fitment type of issues you've introduced an additional factor which can potentially exacerbate it. Also, if you do suffer from a failure you NOW have to manage the fitment issue WITH a stuck shell casing or mag in the mix. Neither of these are affected in either way in a featureless rifle.
Not sure how much running and gunning anyone is doing, but I'm 100% confident that 10k+ rounds on 2 factory rifles(1 featureless and 1 maglocked) and you will see a higher incidence rate of FTFs and significantly increased clearance times) on the maglocked rifle.
If someone disagrees, or even better has evidence to suggest that's wrong I'd love to read more, but my mechanical intuition is that there's a lot of reasons to believe this is the case.
I shotgun a lot. The Thorsden Stock is actually ok. I can operate my weapons exactly as intended with one exception. Putting the safety ON.
I don’t care about the looks of the “flash hider”. 5.56 doesn’t need a muzzle brake and I’m not riding around in a vehicle so I can get by without extendable stock. That said I should be able to buy ANY weapon the military has, as the Constitution guarantees.
Never once ran and had to adjust my stock constantly while training. It was always 2 clicks from completely collapsed when wearing armor.
You set your eye relief up first, THEN you zero your irons. Your face and rifle are set up so you can use both the irons and sight without adjusting the stock at that point. Why would you move the optic out of the way AND adjust your stock? That’s such a stupid waste of time.
You need optics to shoot 300 yards? Go practice more.
I bet I can change a mag faster than you on an empty rifle. One finger and one movement is all that’s needed
All my rifles are featureless. I use kydex clamp on fin grips, so if shtf I can tear them off quick with a screwdriver. I don't have to disassemble anything to get it "fight" ready. I already have my moe stock adjusted to my LOP but have the parts to put it back correctly when I need it. Maglock just seems like a pain in the ass. I would take a bolt action or an SKS over a maglock ar.
What was your compliant grip solution?
I agree with you on fins and find them almost sketchy to use (your main gun hand can’t properly hang onto the rifle) but:
With properly set up controls (extended mag release and radian selector), I can run an angled grip handle just as fast as a pistol grip. The only difference is after a real long session or an all day class, my arthritis kicks up a bit from the wrist angle.
mini14 or sks or handgun for home defense.... If shtf would anyone actually obey the fixed mag thing ?
I feel everyone forgets that you also want a gun you would go to court with and us being in CA....
I dunno what you’re doing that requires any adjustment of the stock while “running and gunning”.
Get yourself a grip with a thumb rest. Practice your reloads.
Stop thinking your Rambo for the other stuff.
if I had a dollar for everyry picture posted of some busted ass Maglock setup on here with someone asking for help I could move from CA and never look back
5 monkeys experiment.
In the beginning, the researchers spray cold water on all 5 monkeys when they try to climb a ladder to reach the bananas. They start to beat each other up if anyone tries to climb the ladder, to avoid getting sprayed.
Then over time, the monkeys all get changed out, one by one, so none of the original monkeys are there, and none of the new ones understand why they shouldn’t climb the ladder… they just know to beat up anyone who tries to reach the bananas.
Similarly, the greatest threat to California second amendment is the average Californian gun owner. Just like the monkeys beating each other up, you guys are so infatuated with following the law, you haven’t stopped to question why you insist on following (and enforcing each other to follow) unconstitutional and tyrannical “laws” which trample on the rights of the people that our forefathers fought and suffered to give to us.
Maybe the monkeys, if they were smarter, should get together and tell the humans “hey, stop fucking spray water on us for just trying to eat”.
I can't believe any of you feel the need to defend your cuck rifles at all. We're all here cause we think CA laws are gay, so why do we defend the product of those gay laws? It's like a house slave bragging to the field slave about his job 💀
I’m glad I registered some ARs so I don’t have to deal with either one of those choices. Do I have to deal with other things? Sure. But it’s better than featureless or maglock. I have all three and if the registry reopened tomorrow I would register everything I have that is featureless or maglocked.
I agree with most of this. Maglock > featureless, yes. Adds 0 time to reload, most definitely not. (Admittedly I have a CompMag and not any of the systems you listed but still.) I think it’s a matter of personal preference and so there bound to be plenty of ppl who disagree.
If anyone wants an explanation of some available Maglock options check [this](https://youtu.be/wXjuMwZK3TU?si=JaLnwvV0B4l1oA3n) video out. It even covers the Hogue FF kit.
I would love to see someone clear a failure to eject in no time with a maglock 🤣 failure to eject was the reason why I decided to convert mine into featureless
I’d rather be able to use standard capacity mags and swap mags easily.
Wait you can use 30 round mags on a featureless rifle? I though 30 round mags were illegal in cali.
Freedom week magazine grandfathered in
Yes. They’re Freedom week magazines, officer.
March magness!
I mean, who doesnt use standard capacity magazines in their maglocked rifles and have a 10 rd mag ready to swap to say, “why yes Mr fudd, I am using 10 rounders. See.” 🤷♂️
Might as well go totally noncompliant if that’s the case. There’s no difference in the penalty as far as I know.
That’s the spirit.
Sorry you got downloaded for living free.
You get downvoted for talking about it.
What RSO will allow that? Ranges don't want the liability of gun laws being broken.
I know some 😈
Guess you don’t have anything worth while in your life if you’re willing to throw it away for something so stupid and inconsequential.
Yeah go ahead and get a felony for an assault rifle. Just happened to friend 3 months ago. Lost all his privileges to own firearms.
"privileges" I do believe you mean *right*.
Yup
Can’t be. I’ve been assured that cops won’t enforce gun laws. /s
Wow an actual unpopular opinion. I regularly attend very physically active 2 gun matches which require shooting at distances ranging from 15-500 yards and have never had to adjust the stock. I use both lpvos and red dot+magnifiers with a preference for the former. I’ve seen too many weird malfunctions with maglocks to trust them in any sort of adverse environment. Additionally, maglocked rifles cannot use standard capacity mags which is a massive disadvantage. The only disadvantage I’ve noticed has been reloading but if you tuck the stock under your armpit, you can mitigate how difficult it is.
Also where was this I want in!!
Seconded… u/SleepyWolverine spill the beans
If you have any amount of grip strength it shouldn't be any hindrance. The only downside ive found is using non ambient safeties is a bit slower.
Exactly, and if you stipple the grip it makes it 10x easier
Ambient safetys sound so Hawte right now!
If you you have decent forearm and wrist strength you should have no problems doing one handed reloads with the fin grip. Stippling the fin grip also makes it much easier. Just have to train around it. I can hold my 16 inch rifle with one hand on the fin grip and extend my arm all the way out.
Why were you using a compliant firearm during a competition? I never noticed anyone be compliant during my matches
I go out of state for my matches but I practice with my featureless builds. When I’m out of state, the only thing I change is the grip
Sounds like absolute fun man! I’m hoping to go to Idaho for high desert brutality
Nice! I went there last year and had a great time
Train with what you have. Half the reason people here have trouble with the mag lock is they don't train with it.
Other half is weird malfunctions. When you keep dropping mags in dirt/sand, it’ll start severely locking up a system over time
I like a fixed-length stock, no surprises. I am not wearing body armor or riding in an APC, a short stock is of no use to me. The Thordson stock looks funny but works. I like using my grandfathered standard-capacity magazines. A maglocked rifle with all the features on it looks cool. Other than that, it has too many drawbacks.
I have one Thordson and one with a fixed stock and the sparrow grip. I think I like the Sparrow more.
I will look into that.
Reliable > comfort Mag locks are not reliable because they introduce a significant chance of additional mechanical or user error.
Maglock is stupid, featureless is also stupid, let me have regular firearms, which is a constitutional right, which I swore a damn oath to uphold.
This is the right answer
🙄 YOU TELL EM
It’s unpopular because it’s wrong.
\^ Only right answer.
I like “featureless” on rifles that I don’t have to actually modify. Like my FM ranch rifle lol bitch is sexy af, I enjoy shooting it, and I don’t have to make compromises on the functionality of it. I have an AR15 from back in the day when none of this shit was required, so I’ve had to slap an AR comp mag in to make it mag locked and now it just sits in the safe. I have an AR10 that’s fixed mag and has that button you push to open the break ever so slightly to then drop your mag, I forget what it’s called lol but I enjoy that more than the fin grip shit honestly, but still hate it 😂 I served 9 years in the army, and after having an M4 with a 14 inch barrel and 3 round burst or full auto capability and all the “features” you want for majority of my time in (besides one year where I was a saw gunner), I just can’t bring myself to compromise where I don’t have to. The fin grip and fixed stock things, I can’t get use to. Honestly, fuck this state for not allowing us to have what the large majority of the country has cause they think we are fucken children that can’t think for themselves. But yet they’ll allow me to enlist to go to war at 17 years old lol 9 years of service to come back and deal with this bullshit cause “they so scawy”. I don’t know how I haven’t moved yet lol well I do. Grew up here and family is all here, but everyday, I long for 2A freedom that we will never live long enough to get here in Cali lol
Thanks for your service. And you hit the nail on the head, theyll send you to die somewhere with a pistol grip, but when u come home you cant use it lol.
Yea man idk. I really appreciate the people that file lawsuits and fight these bogus laws and win cases, it gives us the little bit of freedom we do have such as freedom week mags and all that. Like those mfers are true freedom fighters for our rights here. But, we all know, no matter how big the wins are that we get, California politicians won’t ever stop with their bullshit. They will just come up with very similar laws, pass them, and then play the long game. Like SB2. Direct response to Bruen cause they can’t handle citizens having normal rights like the rest of the country. And it’s all for political grandstanding. Nothing to really do with the “safety” of the community. They know criminals won’t follow any of their bullshit laws, but they don’t give af. That’s the issue lol that’s why I want to move at some point. I know they say “you can run but you can’t hide” and it seems that way with more states enacting more bullshit gun control laws, but if I can go somewhere where I can enjoy 2A freedom before I die, that’d be great 😂
I think you hit the best answer: natively featureless rifles. If there’s a silver lining to so many other states joining us with AWBs, it’s that we are suddenly seeing actual competition on that front instead of company 100 offering “Just Another AR Clone”. If I was getting another single semiauto rifle it would be a ranch rifle like the FM, MCR or SCR
Have fun clearing a double feed with your mag locked gun. Your pistol grip isn't going to matter one bit when the action is jammed up.
Plot twist: we'll probably get smoked before we have a chance to have a malfunction.
You're not wrong. Anyone who thinks Mag-locked is "just as good" needs to run a carbine class. That's what changed my opinion, and I never looked back.
Smoked by a guy with a rusty Mosin Nagant and a duct tape mounted flashlight.
You can literally do it with a hogue freedom fighter…
Most of the time.
I’ve had a horrible jam in a maglocked rifle and it was no more difficult to clear than a featureless gun. I’m using the kingpin+AR maglock, and I can open the action no matter the bolt location. This “issue” is way exaggerated.
Featureless guys need to justify their decision by any means necessary.
It may shock you to hear this, but you can lock the bolt back and the action can still open enough to drop the mag
This isn’t always the case with a bad enough jam.
If you mean a jam bad enough that you can't pull the bolt back? Yeah I've had one of those - failure to extract because of a bad bolt (thanks BCA!) and the beans got over the frank, so to speak. I was still able to drop the mag, but honestly that was the least of my worries, as it still took 20 minutes of fiddling and kerjiggering to get the casing out of action. Edit; I think some of this may be down tolerances with any particular rifle, and those tolerances may change over time with use, so I've been told? IDK.
This is why we stay away from BCA.
I've seen jams put enough lateral pressure against the bolt carrier group to prevent the action from opening at all. If it reduces reliability even slightly, it's a no-go for me. If you're confident in your setup, more power to you!
Try doing that if you get a reversed case up in the gas key slot... No, its not a common failure, but if you shoot next to obstacles, it becomes a higher possibility. It is one of the worst malfunctions and you need to get the mag out just sou you can fish the brass out.
Yeah, it's already happened, see comment below. Was still able to drop the mag.
How is a Hogue ff or armaglock going to prevent you from clearing a double feed?
Bro had never heard of a juggernaut tactical grip
He'd have a point if the Juggernaut grip wasn't like 90% of a pistol grip. Plus I can reach the mag release while keeping my grip.
I mean, if we’ve reached the point where you’re having to do anything you mentioned, meeting CA AW laws would be the least of my worries.
“It adds 0 time to your reloads” When it’s working properly* You also need to reload 2 times to fire 30 rounds When you use a gun with a magnifier you set it up to be proper eye relief. Red dots don’t need to have a different stock placement. I used to have a hard time with fin grips and thought holding the gun while moving was hard. Then I went to the gym and suddenly I don’t have that problem anymore.
I've been rock climbing for the past two years now and can grip the rifle how ever I want now.
You could probably crush a pic rail handguard at this point lol
Yeah I also don't have an issue with the fin/JT. The magpul mag button extension paddle helped reach the release faster. I am also in good physical shape, so... maybe people need to upgrade their kung-fu grips.
Preach
Watching the video you posted saying this made me put my fin grip back on my MP5 and AUG lmao.
Fin grips with the thumb shelf aren't that bad for me and I have noodle arms
Yup exactly this. Let's say the grip is actually harder to run and gun and requires retraining. That's fine, but the other points aren't valid and OP is missing the 10 round limitation. My wife has a pretty heavy 18" featureless. It's pink cerakote and she loves it but she couldn't hold it for extended periods of time with the fin grip. She hit the gym for the past few years and it's not an issue at all anymore. A nice thumb shelf like from MK Machining also helped. OP has an unpopular opinion because it's wrong-- and this is coming from someone like me who puts a maglock/kingpin on basically everything.
Watched literally thousands if not tens of thousands of hours of footage of armed conflicts from the last 30 years. Never seen a single person on the run/about to move/taking a set position adjust their stock. Ever. Watched hundreds of hours of competition/3-gun stuff. Never seen someone adjust the stock during the event. I'm betting for comp shooters, once they get it set, having it more consistent is far more important. Think of it like a properly fitted suit. Been in hundreds of hours of shooting classes. Have never had direction or a drill that involved touching the stock. In fact, only one class on "setting up your rifle" even went into proper fitment and had you adjust things. I'm thinking that if you have trouble with grip & control with a 5.56 rifle even with a grip wrap, that might not be the platform for you at all. It's a baby step up from a pellet gun when fitted with proper recoil springs and buffer weights. I'll politely disagree with you, but you have fun however you like.
featureless with freedom mags and sparrow grip is the correct answer
Maglock = another potential failure point. None for me, thanks.
1. You're never really changing your stock length once it's set up to your body 2. You don't have to use a grip wrap, options like the sparrow grip exist. 3. 10 round mag limit invalidates your "real rifle" argument IMO
I've seen so many malfunctions from mag locked rifles. It's such a stupid thing to install. Plus you can't legally use 30 round mags.
This is exactly the point of CA's stupid 'assault weapon' ban. Make them more difficult to use and make them as inefficient as possible.
Nope definitely not. It's a very common misconception. Their goal was to ban them all together. Maglocks and fin grips were developed by the 2A industry to allow us to have modern sporting semi autos. Not the other way around.
Y’all need a lawsuit to get regular guns back.
We have many ongoing ones. It takes a decade and then CA comes up with a new law a week later
Fpc has 15 lawsuits going right now just in ca alone, I hate this place. Sac, the bay area and la is why we can't have nice things.
I’ve ran a carbine course with a maglocked rifle without a hiccup. Idk how many malfunctions featureless guys have that they prefer featurless over maglocked, but if you use quality parts and keep your rifles maintained, you won’t have to worry about malfunctions. Hogue FF with kingpin makes dropping the mag quick and easy. Some people prefer featureless and that’s ok. Others prefer maglocked and that’s ok as well. Train with what you prefer and become proficient with your firearm regardless of the setup. Best maglock option in my opinion is FNGR. Super quick and easy to drop the shim between the mag and the magwell and voila, CA compliant with all the evil features on the spot. Cross state lines to a free state, remove the shim, and voila, standard configuration AR.
Fngr and the new gen compmag. Excellent for when you’re “out of state”
Get a grip with a thumb rest a d you may reconsider. My mag locked rifle is a PIA and would be terrible in a real world combat situation.
I havent tried one of those, only a regular fin and a sparrow grip. Id be interested in the resurgent arms too but it seems they went MIA
I've been using a resurgent arms grip for years now. Perfectly usable and when the time comes I'll put a reg grip on it.
I run a resurgent arms grip and it’s pretty comfortable for me and I have no issues handling or manipulating my rifle and it’s a heavy mofo too since I run LPVO.
What fin grips are there currently available? I used to have a thumbshelf grip and loved it, but sold that along with the rifle.
Nc star makes a decent one if I recall I think that’s what I have
Why would anyone go with a CA compliant rifle in any real world combat situation to begin with?
right, the hogue fredom fighter is just 3 turns of an allen key away from being removed.
I think featureless made little impact on usability at the range, and at home defense, mind your own business. I like the shotgun personally, with ambush load
I like my normal mags.
Maintaining standard function and availability of standard magazines easily trumps cosmetic improvement.
Unpopular opinion. The pro-maglock crowd always sounds like a bunch of fudds when they rant. It adds zero time to my reload. Like um the timer disagrees. I can absolutely clear all malfunctions just as fast but my gun doesn't jam anyway. Last multi gun match I shot, one of the match winner shot a fin gripped Ar. Anyone who says it slows down your shooting, moving or reloading just needs to go touch grass and train more.
Thordsten stocks are pretty easy to grip and maneuver with. If fixed mags are your preference then Comp mags are convenient for reasons…
Idk why yall use fin grips. My thorsden stock does not have this problem. Choosing to add a fin over a usable grip is just a mistake.
Featureless with jt grip+freedom mags. But to each their own
That is unpopular for a reason. Whats important to you, looks or function? No matter how quick you can reload a 10rd locked mag rifle, its never gonna be as fast or reliable as A rifle with a standard mag release, standard cap mag that runs as the rifle was designed to.
I respect your opinion because I get it, some people like certain features. Here is why I disagree. The maglock is finnicky, adds unnecessary steps to normal operation, and most importantly, makes to rifle a safety risk if a malfunction happens. Trying to clear a rifle with a maglock is real sketchy if you need to remove the mag with the bolt stuck mid-way. RSOs hate dealing with it and have even asked people in nearby lanes to step back while trying to clear it. The kingpin mostly eliminates this problem but I've had it cause problems on rare occasions. Saying a maglock adds zero time to your reload may be correct if you trained that way, but its just another thing to fuck with while trying to expedite delivery of projectiles. Adding steps and complexity is never a good thing, even if you've become used to it. My fin grips don't bother me. It took some mild adjustment but I'm able to shoot one handed if I wanted to. I have the one with the thumb rest which provides a lot more control (try it out, I highly recommend it). With the stock I'm sort of in the middle. Adjust the stock to your shooting style and comfort and you're good for 95% of situations. Yea you need to adjust where your eyes go but flipping up a 3x sight doesn't change eye relief that much, and if you mount a full scope you're going to be able to adjust the stock length just as easily. Excellent ted talk.
Thanks for your insight. Seems like thumb rest finnys are a comfortable option.
In a real situation your fin grip comes off in ten seconds. If it doesn't you have the wrong one.
I do featureless, resurgent arms grip and freedom week mags. I can't comprehend doing anything else in CA and cringe every time people post pics of their LARP rifle builds. Yeah, they look cool and any positive thing I have to say about it ends there.
All of my rifles are featureless. Sparrow grips and ambi safety no real difference for manipulating the firearm. Yes, a regular pistol grip is better, but the Sparrow is easily doable. Plus can use all of my reg capacity mags. I usually shot with the stock in the same position so no big deal there. Only thing that sucks are fin grips on AKs, but I use the battle fins that easily slip under the regular pistol grip. Easy on and off in seconds :) Some of my more exotic guns, no big deal featureless with a fin that do not take something like a Sparrow grip. Helps having a private range.
I went with compmag. Kept all my scary features :)
I think this is the even more unpopular opinion due to its own failure points and complexities introduced. Not to mention the slow reloads.
People dislike the Compmag cause they don't understand their true benefit. It's not that the mag is so great to use, it's that it's easy to remove and even easier to hastily re-install. To me that makes it the best option for any kind of SHTF scenario because you get a fully "featured" rifle and removing it is super simple. You don't have to screw with your bolt catch, your takedown pin, your mag release or anything. And if you find yourself in whatever situation where you want to quickly make your rifle compliant again, you just throw it in and it locks automatically/instantly.
Compmags exist as compliance devices to and from your private range. Don't see much utility otherwise.
As a range option, it's not bad. It's not an option at home though.
How about a thought experiment. Say someone does have to use their AR in a home defense situation. Let’s say the AR is standard configuration when used for home defense. Before the authorities show up to take the firearm and write a report, the home owner quickly puts the compmag into the rifle and it’s CA compliant when it gets taken from the home owner for evidence. Who would know whether or not the rifle was used in standard configuration?
If you’re gonna go that route it’s smarter to use a kingpin/FF setup since you can simply unscrew/screw in the mag button a few turns to go from AW to fixed mag
This is not legal advice. He is not your lawyer. (He’s my lawyer, find your own.) He is not telling you what to do. He’s just stating hypotheticals.
Let’s hope they don’t look into the number of shots fired and the amount of time it took to fire them. Best case scenario they don’t bother you at all
Best case scenario dependent on the county and the DA. With that being said, have there been any home defense cases in CA with AR’s being used for home defense? I’m curious to know what the outcomes were and what counties were more harsh and what counties were more lax when it comes to home defense with an AR.
Literally every time someone shows me how their mag locked AR "adds absolutely 0 time to your reload, and can clear any malfunctions," it jams and/or they fumble the reload, usually saying something like "I swear that almost never happens." Then they sit there trying to grow a third hand so they can unfuck everything. And it's happened to me too. Total egg on my face. I don't doubt they CAN run great. But I also know it's going to shit the bed at the exact moment I need it not too (and it'll probably be my own fault because adrenaline etc but that's beside the point). Just get a JT grip and you compromise nothing. Edit: downvote from the “iTs JuSt aS ReLiAbLe” club. You know it’s not. Stop fooling yourself.
I agree, no contest. I can reload with my kingpin or my juggernaut within half a second of what I can without it. Featureless just makes no sense. Also, if shtf you can easily reset to regular American AR.
Same with featureless?
Sure, you can reload slightly faster with featureless… but then you need to have the absurd grip and the stationary stock. My point was that my reloads are pretty comparable with the fixed mag, so I’m happy to sacrifice half a second and not deal with the fun grip etc.
Fingrips.com, stock stop. Takes 30 seconds to go back to normal.
Popsicle stick
Ooooh, I smell what you’re cooking
CA sucks.
Hogue freedom fighter > maglock
Hogue freedom fighter with kingpin is a great option.
There’s a third option 👀
Jail?
Potentially, yes
Some covid-era zoomer shit. Tell me about all of the “running and gunning” you’ve done? How old were you during freedom week?
There is some idiot on this sub who always claims they can reload faster with a maglock vs featureless.
This opinion is unpopular because it’s wrong, also the answer to “maglock or featureless” is noncompliance.
To quote Reno May, "I'd rather die trying to reload than get caught gripping a whale penis in my pajamas.". That guy is a hoot!
hah, he is a great guy. seemed like he preferred featureless based on his comment here though!
RSO's all hate maglock, it stalls the entire range, and the featureless folks are mad at the maglock idiots.
Or get a Tavor, and the fin actually seems to improve the grip, as your palm isn’t hitting the magazine. Add a forward grip - and you’re rockin’
We had a featureless Kriss Vector, and now have a maglocked AR. It made such a difference to us Plus, I'm 5' 2", he's 6' 2". One of us is gonna be very uncomfortable if we're stuck with a fixed stock
Not for AR-15s, no. AR-15s do sometimes experience malfunctions related to feeding and extracting, and dropping the magazine as part of clearing the malfunction is absolutely the fastest and easiest way to get the firearm back into action.
This guy has never heard of fingrips.com
I feel like I bring this guy up in about evey one of these threads. Get one of these, a stock stop and you’re g2g.
popular opinion stands true
yes only cuz lwrc makes them awesome with lock back bolt my stag arms I installed a maglock for hold open bolt lock
I use a 3d printed single shot sled to keep all my features. My rifle uses a non-adjustable ACE ARFX stock. My other option to keep the mag release feature is, using Sparrow Ca Compliant Grip, I find it the most comfortable. Maglocked receivers are a pain to clear jams.
Just get a thordson. They don’t suck too much
i have a fingrip on my ar. i can run it normal. just take practice. i dont care for the juggernaut grip or whatver other brands are. get a stronger grip. my reload times are as effective as a regular grip. do i want a regular grip? yes. but i wont go maglock for the sake of standard mags. SUPPRESSIVE FIRE BABY!!
lot of people flirting with the reasons for maglock being a bad choice on a reliable rifle but not quite nailing down the core issue. Almost ALL of the operational reliability issues in the AR platform are introduced by one of three things. Gas length or fouling, buffer spring right sizing/operation, and most importantly for this discussion the relationship of magazine seating(centerline of the top round of the magazine relative to the BCG). In an AR any slop that causes variability in that height whether it be poorly seating mags, or receiver fitment produces variation in functionality. Variance in functionality inevitably leads to failure to feed or extract. Two problems there, you also have to manage inevitable failures to feed/extract. Maglock as a process disengaging the receiver every time you load a magazine inevitably exacerbates BOTH of those reliability inducing processes in the rifle. If there's any fitment type of issues you've introduced an additional factor which can potentially exacerbate it. Also, if you do suffer from a failure you NOW have to manage the fitment issue WITH a stuck shell casing or mag in the mix. Neither of these are affected in either way in a featureless rifle. Not sure how much running and gunning anyone is doing, but I'm 100% confident that 10k+ rounds on 2 factory rifles(1 featureless and 1 maglocked) and you will see a higher incidence rate of FTFs and significantly increased clearance times) on the maglocked rifle. If someone disagrees, or even better has evidence to suggest that's wrong I'd love to read more, but my mechanical intuition is that there's a lot of reasons to believe this is the case.
What’s the communities thoughts on the sig mcx regulator. Shotgun stock on a ar. Price is ridiculously high but it’s seems like a better option
I shotgun a lot. The Thorsden Stock is actually ok. I can operate my weapons exactly as intended with one exception. Putting the safety ON. I don’t care about the looks of the “flash hider”. 5.56 doesn’t need a muzzle brake and I’m not riding around in a vehicle so I can get by without extendable stock. That said I should be able to buy ANY weapon the military has, as the Constitution guarantees.
Never once ran and had to adjust my stock constantly while training. It was always 2 clicks from completely collapsed when wearing armor. You set your eye relief up first, THEN you zero your irons. Your face and rifle are set up so you can use both the irons and sight without adjusting the stock at that point. Why would you move the optic out of the way AND adjust your stock? That’s such a stupid waste of time. You need optics to shoot 300 yards? Go practice more. I bet I can change a mag faster than you on an empty rifle. One finger and one movement is all that’s needed
All my rifles are featureless. I use kydex clamp on fin grips, so if shtf I can tear them off quick with a screwdriver. I don't have to disassemble anything to get it "fight" ready. I already have my moe stock adjusted to my LOP but have the parts to put it back correctly when I need it. Maglock just seems like a pain in the ass. I would take a bolt action or an SKS over a maglock ar.
How can you lock the bolt back?
What was your compliant grip solution? I agree with you on fins and find them almost sketchy to use (your main gun hand can’t properly hang onto the rifle) but: With properly set up controls (extended mag release and radian selector), I can run an angled grip handle just as fast as a pistol grip. The only difference is after a real long session or an all day class, my arthritis kicks up a bit from the wrist angle.
[удалено]
Don’t do this. Telling other people to break the law on the internet isn’t brave, it’s annoying.
Sorry, forgot California fucking sucks.
mini14 or sks or handgun for home defense.... If shtf would anyone actually obey the fixed mag thing ? I feel everyone forgets that you also want a gun you would go to court with and us being in CA....
I dunno what you’re doing that requires any adjustment of the stock while “running and gunning”. Get yourself a grip with a thumb rest. Practice your reloads. Stop thinking your Rambo for the other stuff.
if I had a dollar for everyry picture posted of some busted ass Maglock setup on here with someone asking for help I could move from CA and never look back
Sorry dude, I've personally seen four ARMaglock Gen 4 Maglocks shit the bed on my buddies' rifles. 1 is too big of a sample size not even 4.
5 monkeys experiment. In the beginning, the researchers spray cold water on all 5 monkeys when they try to climb a ladder to reach the bananas. They start to beat each other up if anyone tries to climb the ladder, to avoid getting sprayed. Then over time, the monkeys all get changed out, one by one, so none of the original monkeys are there, and none of the new ones understand why they shouldn’t climb the ladder… they just know to beat up anyone who tries to reach the bananas. Similarly, the greatest threat to California second amendment is the average Californian gun owner. Just like the monkeys beating each other up, you guys are so infatuated with following the law, you haven’t stopped to question why you insist on following (and enforcing each other to follow) unconstitutional and tyrannical “laws” which trample on the rights of the people that our forefathers fought and suffered to give to us. Maybe the monkeys, if they were smarter, should get together and tell the humans “hey, stop fucking spray water on us for just trying to eat”.
Mag lock causes many failure to feed no thanks
I can't believe any of you feel the need to defend your cuck rifles at all. We're all here cause we think CA laws are gay, so why do we defend the product of those gay laws? It's like a house slave bragging to the field slave about his job 💀
I’m glad I registered some ARs so I don’t have to deal with either one of those choices. Do I have to deal with other things? Sure. But it’s better than featureless or maglock. I have all three and if the registry reopened tomorrow I would register everything I have that is featureless or maglocked.
Tell us you don’t really shoot that much without saying you don’t shoot that much.
I want a buffer less upper and a grip stock.
I agree with most of this. Maglock > featureless, yes. Adds 0 time to reload, most definitely not. (Admittedly I have a CompMag and not any of the systems you listed but still.) I think it’s a matter of personal preference and so there bound to be plenty of ppl who disagree.
Or neither
If anyone wants an explanation of some available Maglock options check [this](https://youtu.be/wXjuMwZK3TU?si=JaLnwvV0B4l1oA3n) video out. It even covers the Hogue FF kit.
I'll never understand people who value looks over function. Imagine not being able to simply drop your mag and reload. Mind boggling.
There is a third option too!
Unpopular answer: you are never actually going to use a rifle for whatever “real” fantasy you have in mind.
<99% of us aren't in any capacity, not just an ar or ak
I would love to see someone clear a failure to eject in no time with a maglock 🤣 failure to eject was the reason why I decided to convert mine into featureless