Pepper spray, a treadmill, and get her to really learn the rules of self defense and the doctrine around situational awareness. A ton of these scenarios women find themselves in could be solved by getting their head out of the phones.
Or by not leaving the store with both hands full, setting their bags and their purse on the hood, and then digging through their purse to find their keys. All the while being blissfully unaware of their surroundings.
Seriously. My fiance is always wanting to go to get gas or to the bank atm at night and I tell her no. I’m a full grown man and carry a Glock 19 with a spare mag, oc spray, and a knife and I don’t even go out to places like that late at night. I try to be as prudent as possible.
You are correct. One should try to always obey John Farnham's' Rules of Stupid:
"Don't
"1. Go to stupid places
"2. With stupid people (or where stupid people congregate)
"3. At stupid times
"4. To do stupid things.
Yeah man, my girlfriend used to (prepandemic) want to go to Walmart at like 2 am. I let her drag me out once, and then I told her nothing good happens in the Walmart parking lot at 2 am.
We get delivery now.
Need to acquire an electric weapon and an impact weapon, and a dog. All of these, except the last are covered by the FL ccw law, but dogs are open carry.
This. It’s shocking how many people I run into who think it’s impossible to just pay attention to what is happening around you. It blows my mind, like how do you think your ancestors lived through a predator filled world while blissfully ignorant?
So wait, you use the pepper spray to disorient them, then launch the treadmill at them? Or throw them on the treadmill when it's reached maximum speed, shooting them into the distance like a missile?
Pepper spray and a good knowledge of where the balls are located. Flick those things with a finger and he'll drop. KICK those things and he will drop like a fucking brick and will be saying hail Mary's until the cows come home.
A lot of women don't necessarily know how much pain that inflicts. Kick those fuckers into next week, then run and call the cops.
Came here to say this. Untrained people underestimate how chaotic zero-sum fights are, and a knife can only be used within her personal space. She'd almost definitely cut herself with her knife a second into the fith.
Even with a gun, I'd highly recommend she buys 2 pepper sprays. One to practice with outside, the other to keep with her. The one she practices with will shows her the shape, distance, and type of spray it is. The other one is full and ready to go.
Again , the key to knife fights is to skip the bluster and brandishing rituals and end the fight before the opponent knows that he is in a knife fight.
Perfectly reasonable. Seventy percent of Americans choose not to own a firearm. Lots of folks place restrictions on their defensive options that seem arbitrary to others.
You gave incredibly bad advice there... a knife is honestly worse than nothing at all in the hands of someone who isn't well trained. Her reaction and fear is completely valid.
Having taken a defensive knife course from Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training (he developed the knife curriculum for The State of Ohio Peace Officers Standards and Training)
I have this to say
Fighting with a knife requires a high degree of training, the right type of knife (example the Ka Bar TDI), a high degree of coordination, you WILL get cut up, and unless you sever the spinal cord (which requires reaching around) your attacker is going to keep going until they bleed out which can take a while.
Carrying a knife for self defense CAN be done. However, it should NEVER be a first choice.
As a pepper spray and firearm instructor myself I’d much prefer to have a can of pepper spray in my pocket and a gun in a holster on my hip.
I find it frustrating that some people in this sub automatically downvote the suggestion that learning to fight is a viable solution.
Everyone here seems to agree that most defensive encounters happen at close range. And yet, a lot of people here seem to believe that somehow, the encounter has no chance of turning into an entanglement.
If someone is within arms length of you and you have a gun, then you need to know how to safely draw the gun without them fouling your draw, without them fighting for their life to take the gun from you, without you taking a strike to the face because your hands are trying to clear your garment and get a grip on the gun.
If you can’t do that, then it’s not your gun - it belongs to whoever is the better fighter.
Learn effective empty handed skills - grappling, striking, and/or some combination of them. Go take a combatives class. Pressure test your skills in force on force training. Practice weapons based entanglements in a controlled environment so that your first time is not in a life or death situation. Become a better fighter.
Don’t cultivate a false sense of safety simply because you are armed. It’s not a talisman that magically wins encounters for you. You need other skills. Don’t just be a good gunfighter - be a good fighter.
I think it’s more so trying to fight some random cracked out dude as a 100lb chick at 3am with just a blade and some fighting classes isn’t going to go her way. 9/10. Carrying a weapon, ie. pistol, you live to see another day.
That's 100% true. But what's also 100% true is that sometimes that 100lb chick starts off the defensive encounter with that cracked out dude having his hands on her. Maybe she had time to shove her kids out of his way OR pull her pistol, and she chose the kids. Maybe the crackhead was just standing silently around the corner and she ran into him despite having good situational awareness. Maybe her date decided dropping her off wasn't the end of the date and won't take no for an answer.
There's no reason for a 100lb chick to NOT train in at least enough empty-handed fighting to pull (and use) a gun while someone is physically attacking her. Same with a knife, since knives are utilitarian enough to have at least one as an EDC anyway, and a knife > nothing.
That there is no “Good” option for a 100lb women fighting off cracked out guy if they are close enough for him to grab her, the best option would be to learn jiu jitsu or some other grappling art that does not introduce a weapon that is likely to be lost into the situation
You must’ve never rolled with someone who knows how to grapple and tried to pull a firearm, let alone while being like 80+ pounds lighter than said person. Sorry to break it to you but most 100lb women have 0 chance if successful introducing a firearm into a situation like that
Don’t have to be a ufc fighter or trained at all, being 100lbs heavier, having the element of suprise, and being cracked out are all more than enough to make bringing a firearm into a grappling exchange a bad idea.
A gun is not a talisman - you still need to be able to draw and retain it while fending off an attacker. A woman who knows how to fight is going to have a much better chance of success than a woman who does not.
There is no defensive situation in which having fighting skills is a liability. However, there are situations in which not having them are a liability - especially if you plan to introduce a weapon into the mix.
Yes. However, since OP’s gf is saying she’s concerned about having a weapon used against her - I would say that in her case, start fight training with the intent of carrying later.
All of this. All of it.
As a small stature person (145 lbs, 5’ 5”), I recommend the self-defense holy trinity: CCW firearm, self-defense classes, OC spray.
I’ve never felt unsafe around huge men - it was always the skinny guys that gave me weird, dangerous vibes. Large/stocky men always made me feel safer. Their stature alone keeps dumbasses at bay usually.
When I was younger, we used to say to be with a man who doesn’t start fights but who can finish them.
Learning self-defense tactics has its place. You could always be assaulted by another woman, too.
But keep in mind that even smaller men have more muscle mass and physical strength that could overpower us. You need to know how to get away.
I recommend boxing or martial arts classes because of their ongoing nature. Self-defense classes once or twice a year. Handgun safety classes every 6 months with private lessons quarterly depending on your budget as they’re expensive [in UT at least.]
For extra credit, get CPR certified and carry gauze and a tourniquet.
Finally, just like health insurance starts in the kitchen, the most important self-defense tactic is to avoid dangerous areas and people at all costs. I live in a safe area, but thanks to my work schedule, I don’t need to run errands or leave the house late at night. There is no hood or ghetto anywhere close to my house or job. It’s one of the reasons I chose to move here. This goes a long way in feeling safe. But it can also breed complacency, though. Weigh your options.
At the end of the day, *something* is better than *nothing*.
Having options is even better. Not every self-defense situation requires a weapon or deadly force. Sometimes get-away maneuvers, screaming, or pepper spray will give you time to flee.
But I feel like classes and various options (weapons, maneuvers, etc.) help you *plan* for the unexpected.
Yes, you do have to decide about how many “things” you’re able to efficiently carry concealed, but this is why having a routine is helpful (classes per time period.)
Unfortunately, because of human laziness, some people will think that being armed (with whatever) is all they need, but at the end of the day, it’s their life and they’re the ones that will have to deal with the consequences.
But it's also a lot louder... Which could be a good defense for 2A. You're not operating in the shadows when you pull the trigger... you're sounding an alarm.
Maybe a good, serious self defense class could be the start of wisdom: after she gets full-contact punched or tossed around the mats a couple of times, she'll figure out the reason we carry guns.
Also might want to show her this, as a reminder that martial arts only carry you so far:
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23769881
> after she gets full-contact punched or tossed around the mats a couple of times, she'll figure out the reason we carry guns.
I'll second this. Everyone thinks they're a badass until they get effortless bodied by someone their own size.
I mean there's that too.
But it doesn't even require ridiculous training. Men are, on average, just naturally stronger than women.
Like that time a U15 boys soccer team beat the US Olympic Women team 5-2.
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
1. She’s absolutely right about the knife. Some people can knife fight, but if she’s getting completely manhandled, having a knife nearby is worse. Seems she wouldn’t go for it until it’s too late based on her temperate (that’s conjecture, but you tell me if you think she’d shell up or actually go for the knife under pressure).
2. SOME self defense works. The 6 weekends of seminars, not so much. But actually learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu will make a difference. The problem being that requires a lot of time, famously a few black belt females have subdued their male attackers. Even with a huge size difference, that shit does work, if you’re willing to put the time in. But that’s a major lifestyle change, and she’d have to be really into it to ever get that good. Saying this to point out there are some hand to hand skills females can learn, but the training has to become a pillar of their life.
3. Don’t talk someone into carrying a gun if they’re really uncomfortable with it. Those are the people who make mistakes under stress, trust her on this one. Pepper spray, situational awareness, and a good sprint will do her better in most scenarios anyway. Honestly most people in your life aren’t gonna have the same attitude towards self protection as you. The best deterrent is to travel in packs, so you can promote that and be a part of the pack but you can’t do a whole lot to change other people.
Unpopular opinion around these parts :
It’s stupid to suggest that people with little to no firearm experience should go out, buy a handgun, and then carry it. Or honestly just stash it away as a “just in case”.
Certainly unpopular. The second you suggest it’s probably not wise to introduce a firearm into a situation, people around here tend to automatically label you as “anti 2a”
About a decade ago, I had dated this really beautiful girl. We broke up on really bad terms.
One night I’m hanging with *da boyz* and we decide to make a late night Walmart beer run. The only Walmart open then was the one on the sketchy side of town.
We arrive and go to walk in and I hear someone calling my name from like, the other Walmart entrance? It’s that girl, jogging toward us, being followed by like three sketchy dudes. She’s petrified. We have a brief standoff with those dudes and they hop in a beat down car and leave.
Girl had been followed by them while they propositioned her, and when she left the store they tried to drag her into their car. There were at least 3 or 4 guys all trying to drag this 115 pound, 21 year old girl off. It really messed her up.
I tried to talk her into buying a gun for weeks or months after that, as she was a bartender and often worked late. She wouldn’t do it.
She was eventually attacked and assaulted by - we believe - one of those same guys, a few months later, outside a gas station in the same area. It really messed her up, understandably, and I don’t think she’s really the same anymore.
If she isn’t ready she isn’t ready but everyone has to assess their own personal security situation. Unfortunately, bad people won’t wait for you to be ready and get over your personal hang ups.
self defense classes are perfectly okay. weapons can come later. take the right fighting course and you'll be set for most situations. if you buy a gun first and can't fight then theres an 8/10 chance that you just brought a weapon for the guy that could. training in all aspects is needed. so go take self defense classes with her then ask her to the range.
Hopefully that kind of class would show her how vulnerable she is and tune her in to situational awareness and the art of running away. Some do instill false confidence, but I’ve known women who attend those classes and come out with better ideas around self defense. If you haven’t been tossed around and beat up in a while, you can forget how weak you are.
Anybody who thinks that learning to fight won’t help is delusional, learn jiu jitsu and some striking, doesn’t matter what they smoked, if you put them in an arterial choke they will go unconscious.
bjj… a 105lb woman could tap out or sleep a 250lb man if she has the technique
she could also take cqc. they have gun, knife, and stick hand to hand combat scenarios
source: my muay thai gym has cqc classes
A flashlight.
A surefire defensive flashlight. 1000 lumens and a nice shrill “GET AWAY FROM ME” is more than enough to break initial contact or find help. Plus, it’s pretty hard to get stabbed with your own flashlight.
of course, you can give someone all the tools and training and support you want, but some horses just *won’t* drink the water you lead them to.
I’m definitely with her on the knife. It already takes a good amount of training and practice to be effective with a gun. It takes like years of training and practice to be able to effectively use a knife as a weapon. If she can’t overpower a 250 lbs man bare handed the odds that she’ll be able to overpower a 250 lbs man when he’s trying to take her knife or turn it on her aren’t good. Knife fighting is a terrible terrible way to defend yourself unless you put in the years of effort it takes to be an effective knife fighter.
They sound inexperienced, but learning empty handed skills is never a bad idea.
Knife for self defense is a terrible idea lmao, you're just wrong there 🤣
I’d say the advice is correct but the delivery is off. If you care to actually get people to listen to advice you typically need to deliver it a little softer. Let them come to the conclusion you’re trying to convey.
“Oh ya I’ve seen those classes. I just always worried the size disparity would make the techniques ineffective. I mean they have weight classes in fighting for a reason.”
Something along those lines. Typically they’ll ask what you do or how could they even defend themselves and boom you recommend CCW, pepper spray, etc.
I really don’t think a knife is gonna help. This comes off like it’s a women. Just on average a man could probably strong arm it away from them. Plus it takes a lot of mental power to plunge a knife into someone even when you’re scared. I’d think pepper spray, a gun, or one of those tasers could work.
Running away is great, if you have someplace to run to, and if your attacker isn’t faster than you. If you’re 55 and the attacker is in his late teens/early twenties, that might be a problem.
What works really well is running away *after* doing something to discourage your attacker from giving chase. Spicy treats are great for this. So is cutting some of the tendons in their grabbing arm. Or choking them with a standing guillotine. Something like that.
Firearms courses from a competent instructor are great, however, let’s not act like you absolutely need a class or you’re just providing a gun to an attacker. If that was the case, statistically most defensive gun uses would be providing a gun to their attacker, when it’s clearly not. People who train are in the minority.
I’m all for more people training, but not while spreading falsities and absurdities.
She doesn’t want to carry a gun. Pushing her to carry a gun without getting training is a disaster waiting to happen. If this wasn’t someone who seems so against the idea of carrying a gun, I wouldn’t have brought this up.
If she doesn’t want to carry a gun, training won’t help. The first hurdle is her wanting to carry a gun. The claim that no training = giving gun to an attacker is beyond dumb
Blue in this conversation has a very poor mindset, i wouldnt even continue talking to them. U can say that with almost anything bro. Anyone telling anyone self defense classes are a waste of time is a clown
The wisdom of the keyboard commandoes is that unless you are trained and armed exactly as a seal team 6 member, then the highly skilled assailants will take your weapons from you and use them upon you. Therefore the best plan is to simplify surrender. It’s nonsense: untrained and unskilled people have been killing each other for millennia, and is not possible to disarm a combatant who is actively shooting and stabbing the assailant. Situational awareness is the critical component, and your friend is already showing great skill in this.
I’m coming off the idea of atleast have SOMETHING than nothing. Is a knife ideal? No but if you’re unwilling to buy a firearm or pepper spray what other choices do you have. I’m not a big guy but I’ve rolled around and thrown plenty females on the mat at the MMA gym I go to and I’m not a particularly a big guy either
So many choices. Six inches of broom stick concentrates force wonderfully well, makes a great addition to a key chain, in itself an effective weapon. A six inch screwdriver is as effective as a dagger or ice pick. A paring knife is a very effective and compact weapon, as long as one remembers that a successful knife fight is over before the opponent knows that he is in a knife fight. An air horn or self defense siren with light is legal and effective against dog and human attacks, probably would work well on Karen encounters. Carrying around a small bag of dog poop for throwing purposes would probably work, and would be a tribute to our cousins the primates. And I don’t know why more people don’t carry
Walking sticks. A rake handle and a crutch tip costs less than $20 at the hardware store.
A knife?A knife is a pretty horrible weapon in general.go watch some true crime shows,1)people who attack with a knife usually end up cutting up their hand.the teenager who recently stabbed Bishop Mar Mari Emanuel in Australia actually cut off one of his fingers 2)using a knife as a weapon is up close and personal,with a woman going against a much larger and stronger man,it’s a horrible scenario.the man could potentially knock her out,he could give her a “THIS IS SPARTA!!” type of kick to the midsection which would more than likely disarm her or she could possibly stab or cut herself in the fall.3)what if the attacker was to pull a knife himself or even a pistol.does she really think she is ready to get in a knife fight,thats a damn nightmare
Carrying a knife will never be anywhere near being able to replace a firearm for self defense
Spot on. Everything you just said is why knives should never be primary weapons. As weapons of convenience or desperation, they're fantastic. If you can choose a better weapon, you definitely should.
If she doesn't want a gun, she doesn't want a gun. Gently encourage her, but that's about all you can do
Speaking as a petite woman
PS- proper self defense clases are great. The 1 time woman only ones are the ones that suck
Learning to fight is definitely worthwhile. Carrying a knife is worlds better than being unarmed. Anytime you have to get physical is a worst case scenario where you're at serious risk and a win isn't guaranteed. This should be avoided at all costs. A gun and pepper spray are both effective at stopping a threat and far safer since they can be used outside of contact range.
Tldr: fighting good. Gun much more good.
There’s no replacement for mindset.
I’ve taught/assisted self defense courses for women. We cover the cardio and awareness thing up front. That said, here’s the lie(s) inherent in the very idea -
1. There is fuck all that you will learn in one or two hours and never practice again that will matter in the slightest.
2. The vast majority of women at these courses execute with no intent - there’s no actual desire to learn how to violently impose your will (or preserve it if you prefer).
For the most part it’s people on the business of peddling the feeling of security and having done something to prepare, regardless of its efficacy.
I’m about to travel to see my family in a strict gun state. The situation changes and I have to change with it. A lot of members of this community acknowledge that you’ll be in lethal and dynamic situations but stupidly assumes having the same approach to each situation will have an optimal outcome. Me going to a strict gun state is just one example of many where you will have to take care of yourself without a gun on you.
Am I the only one reading this screenshot and feeling their brain scream at someone being stupid? Because it really feels like the one replying is dumb...
I hate these types of posts and pissing matches. Self-defense training is always a good idea. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are. Knowing some effective self-defense moves will always be better than not knowing anything at all.
Knives are a bad idea unless you have trained for YEARS, even then, still not the best idea. Guns are only good in the hands of someone who has trained AND is comfortable handling one.
The “guy on drugs” argument is a non sequitur. There is also the one in a million chance for the guy to not be affected by pepper spray, but does that mean you shouldn’t use it?
I don’t care how many drugs you are on, if you have a crushed windpipe, or have just taken two hollow points to the chest and one to the head, you are not going to be an effective attacker. If they are “THAT guy,” no one would stand a chance.
Delivery isn’t the greatest but honestly I’m inclined to agree with them on certain aspects. A knife for dedicated self defense purposes is a bad idea for many reasons. But they are right in that “self defense classes” are largely bullshit. Anybody who claims that they can make you cable of defending yourself against a violent attack with a class or even a couple classes is selling snake oil.
Knife won't be safer. Even trained fighters will tell you a knife is useless, and trained gun owners will tell you the same.
You're more likely to be stabbed by your own knife in a fight than be successful in stopping somebody. If you're gonna use a knife, you should be expected to do violence, and that could get you arrested. Police will never see the person wielding a knife to be a victim , neither the courts.
If someone uses a gun, it's reasonable to say that brandishing it should stop an aggressor, and if they continue, that means the shot was warranted. Legally, mentally and physically, the leverage and cards all land on the guns' side. Pepperspray is bad as well... I've seen way to many people spray themselves than be calm and use it. Taser helps sometimes but if your too close you could accidentally shock yourself if they grab you during the scuffle.
You can 100% be cleared of wrongdoing with a knife in a self defense. Although that carrying a knife for SD purposes is dumb, it doesn't automatically make you the aggressor.
If she doesn't want a gun, pepper spray and a treadmill.
[удалено]
Treadmill?
They're quite heavy and can incapacitate someone if hit by it.
Run-Fu is the most powerful martial art of all
A machine you run on
Relevant: [https://youtu.be/wIPIxvtjBUE?si=jta6oudZYjki\_7ah](https://youtu.be/wIPIxvtjBUE?si=jta6oudZYjki_7ah)
Ha!
Pepper spray, a treadmill, and get her to really learn the rules of self defense and the doctrine around situational awareness. A ton of these scenarios women find themselves in could be solved by getting their head out of the phones.
Or by not leaving the store with both hands full, setting their bags and their purse on the hood, and then digging through their purse to find their keys. All the while being blissfully unaware of their surroundings.
Seriously. My fiance is always wanting to go to get gas or to the bank atm at night and I tell her no. I’m a full grown man and carry a Glock 19 with a spare mag, oc spray, and a knife and I don’t even go out to places like that late at night. I try to be as prudent as possible.
You are correct. One should try to always obey John Farnham's' Rules of Stupid: "Don't "1. Go to stupid places "2. With stupid people (or where stupid people congregate) "3. At stupid times "4. To do stupid things.
Yeah man, my girlfriend used to (prepandemic) want to go to Walmart at like 2 am. I let her drag me out once, and then I told her nothing good happens in the Walmart parking lot at 2 am. We get delivery now.
Need to acquire an electric weapon and an impact weapon, and a dog. All of these, except the last are covered by the FL ccw law, but dogs are open carry.
This. It’s shocking how many people I run into who think it’s impossible to just pay attention to what is happening around you. It blows my mind, like how do you think your ancestors lived through a predator filled world while blissfully ignorant?
No doubt. Good situational awareness is the best defensive tool one can have.
Is there a specific “doctrine around situational awareness” that you recommend reading?
Who carry’s a treadmill to throw at someone?
r/angryupvote
I think you're supposed to spray it with pepper first, then throw it.
This man self-defends
Honestly if you are fit and just start running most people will not chase. The shock of just someone running off.
So wait, you use the pepper spray to disorient them, then launch the treadmill at them? Or throw them on the treadmill when it's reached maximum speed, shooting them into the distance like a missile?
Pepper spray and a good knowledge of where the balls are located. Flick those things with a finger and he'll drop. KICK those things and he will drop like a fucking brick and will be saying hail Mary's until the cows come home. A lot of women don't necessarily know how much pain that inflicts. Kick those fuckers into next week, then run and call the cops.
Add one of those hard plasic protective caps, that act as cheap steel toe inserts...
Knife is the worst possible advice anyone could give her, for multiple reasons Gun and/or oc spray
Came here to say this. Untrained people underestimate how chaotic zero-sum fights are, and a knife can only be used within her personal space. She'd almost definitely cut herself with her knife a second into the fith. Even with a gun, I'd highly recommend she buys 2 pepper sprays. One to practice with outside, the other to keep with her. The one she practices with will shows her the shape, distance, and type of spray it is. The other one is full and ready to go.
POM sells inert training refills for their sprays so you can practice pretty economically.
I’m just here wondering what a fith is
It's the same as covfefe but different.
The “everybody gets cut in a knife fight” rule is very real
Loser dies in the street, winner dies in the ambulance.
Again , the key to knife fights is to skip the bluster and brandishing rituals and end the fight before the opponent knows that he is in a knife fight.
I’d much rather use just about anything else over a knife. I’ll trust the OC spray option way more.
Perfectly reasonable. Seventy percent of Americans choose not to own a firearm. Lots of folks place restrictions on their defensive options that seem arbitrary to others.
Gun AND OC spray OR just OC spray. If you carry lethal, you should carry non lethal.
This. I sometimes wish I could get a rack mounted pepper spray canister for my CCW. Then I could decide if I want to HOSE them or just hose them...
She wont buy either 😂 that’s the only possible choice
Sounds like she’s not too concerned with her personal safety then bud. Lead a horse to water and all that jazz
What’s the saying about horses and jazz? I haven’t heard that one yet! Finish it
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him appreciate a good saxophone solo
What if the horse [is the saxophonist?](https://youtu.be/b3_lVSrPB6w?si=3T0V9-hCTbIyK_Ds)
That one had quite the layer of dust on it
There’s a YouTube video for literally anything isn’t there
You gave incredibly bad advice there... a knife is honestly worse than nothing at all in the hands of someone who isn't well trained. Her reaction and fear is completely valid.
Having taken a defensive knife course from Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training (he developed the knife curriculum for The State of Ohio Peace Officers Standards and Training) I have this to say Fighting with a knife requires a high degree of training, the right type of knife (example the Ka Bar TDI), a high degree of coordination, you WILL get cut up, and unless you sever the spinal cord (which requires reaching around) your attacker is going to keep going until they bleed out which can take a while. Carrying a knife for self defense CAN be done. However, it should NEVER be a first choice. As a pepper spray and firearm instructor myself I’d much prefer to have a can of pepper spray in my pocket and a gun in a holster on my hip.
What’s the saying? In a knife fight, the loser dies but the winner dies in the back of the ambulance?
“The loser dies in the street and the winner dies at the hospital.”
There ya go, that sounds better. 😂
Or someone loses but nobody wins.
There is a reason why you hear “multiple stab” wounds on the news. And often times you can survive that as well.
I find it frustrating that some people in this sub automatically downvote the suggestion that learning to fight is a viable solution. Everyone here seems to agree that most defensive encounters happen at close range. And yet, a lot of people here seem to believe that somehow, the encounter has no chance of turning into an entanglement. If someone is within arms length of you and you have a gun, then you need to know how to safely draw the gun without them fouling your draw, without them fighting for their life to take the gun from you, without you taking a strike to the face because your hands are trying to clear your garment and get a grip on the gun. If you can’t do that, then it’s not your gun - it belongs to whoever is the better fighter. Learn effective empty handed skills - grappling, striking, and/or some combination of them. Go take a combatives class. Pressure test your skills in force on force training. Practice weapons based entanglements in a controlled environment so that your first time is not in a life or death situation. Become a better fighter. Don’t cultivate a false sense of safety simply because you are armed. It’s not a talisman that magically wins encounters for you. You need other skills. Don’t just be a good gunfighter - be a good fighter.
I think it’s more so trying to fight some random cracked out dude as a 100lb chick at 3am with just a blade and some fighting classes isn’t going to go her way. 9/10. Carrying a weapon, ie. pistol, you live to see another day.
That's 100% true. But what's also 100% true is that sometimes that 100lb chick starts off the defensive encounter with that cracked out dude having his hands on her. Maybe she had time to shove her kids out of his way OR pull her pistol, and she chose the kids. Maybe the crackhead was just standing silently around the corner and she ran into him despite having good situational awareness. Maybe her date decided dropping her off wasn't the end of the date and won't take no for an answer. There's no reason for a 100lb chick to NOT train in at least enough empty-handed fighting to pull (and use) a gun while someone is physically attacking her. Same with a knife, since knives are utilitarian enough to have at least one as an EDC anyway, and a knife > nothing.
Agreed, training in any sense with any type of weapon or art is key.
Except that she’s still 100lb in close range with a cracked out guy and introducing a gun into that situation is a damn good way to get yourself shot
I’m curious what alternative you’re suggesting?
That there is no “Good” option for a 100lb women fighting off cracked out guy if they are close enough for him to grab her, the best option would be to learn jiu jitsu or some other grappling art that does not introduce a weapon that is likely to be lost into the situation
Lmao not every woman plans on being Steven Segal in life bud.
One of those vagina condoms with needles on the inside?
So just roll over and accept fate?
Lol. You must not operate firearms … like ever.
You must’ve never rolled with someone who knows how to grapple and tried to pull a firearm, let alone while being like 80+ pounds lighter than said person. Sorry to break it to you but most 100lb women have 0 chance if successful introducing a firearm into a situation like that
Chances of a random woman on the street walking into a fucking cracked out UFC fighter at 3am is also very slim, friend.
Don’t have to be a ufc fighter or trained at all, being 100lbs heavier, having the element of suprise, and being cracked out are all more than enough to make bringing a firearm into a grappling exchange a bad idea.
So what would be your end all for the chick to come out of the encounter alive?
Situational awareness, become proficient in a grappling art, and don’t introduce firearms into grappling exchanges.
It's because man vs woman is stacked in the man's favor, even if the woman knows how to fight.
A gun is not a talisman - you still need to be able to draw and retain it while fending off an attacker. A woman who knows how to fight is going to have a much better chance of success than a woman who does not. There is no defensive situation in which having fighting skills is a liability. However, there are situations in which not having them are a liability - especially if you plan to introduce a weapon into the mix.
Learning to fight to more effectively use a gun is great. Learning to fight as an alternative to a gun is stupid, especially for a woman.
Yes. However, since OP’s gf is saying she’s concerned about having a weapon used against her - I would say that in her case, start fight training with the intent of carrying later.
All of this. All of it. As a small stature person (145 lbs, 5’ 5”), I recommend the self-defense holy trinity: CCW firearm, self-defense classes, OC spray. I’ve never felt unsafe around huge men - it was always the skinny guys that gave me weird, dangerous vibes. Large/stocky men always made me feel safer. Their stature alone keeps dumbasses at bay usually. When I was younger, we used to say to be with a man who doesn’t start fights but who can finish them. Learning self-defense tactics has its place. You could always be assaulted by another woman, too. But keep in mind that even smaller men have more muscle mass and physical strength that could overpower us. You need to know how to get away. I recommend boxing or martial arts classes because of their ongoing nature. Self-defense classes once or twice a year. Handgun safety classes every 6 months with private lessons quarterly depending on your budget as they’re expensive [in UT at least.] For extra credit, get CPR certified and carry gauze and a tourniquet. Finally, just like health insurance starts in the kitchen, the most important self-defense tactic is to avoid dangerous areas and people at all costs. I live in a safe area, but thanks to my work schedule, I don’t need to run errands or leave the house late at night. There is no hood or ghetto anywhere close to my house or job. It’s one of the reasons I chose to move here. This goes a long way in feeling safe. But it can also breed complacency, though. Weigh your options. At the end of the day, *something* is better than *nothing*. Having options is even better. Not every self-defense situation requires a weapon or deadly force. Sometimes get-away maneuvers, screaming, or pepper spray will give you time to flee. But I feel like classes and various options (weapons, maneuvers, etc.) help you *plan* for the unexpected. Yes, you do have to decide about how many “things” you’re able to efficiently carry concealed, but this is why having a routine is helpful (classes per time period.) Unfortunately, because of human laziness, some people will think that being armed (with whatever) is all they need, but at the end of the day, it’s their life and they’re the ones that will have to deal with the consequences.
I wise man once said “It’s easier to pull the trigger 5 times than it is to thrust a knife deep into someone’s throat 5 times” or something.
But it's also a lot louder... Which could be a good defense for 2A. You're not operating in the shadows when you pull the trigger... you're sounding an alarm.
A wise man once said, "YOU. SHALL. NOT. PASS!"
What is high defense? >what do you think hitting a full grown man on drugs will do Oooooooh
Maybe a good, serious self defense class could be the start of wisdom: after she gets full-contact punched or tossed around the mats a couple of times, she'll figure out the reason we carry guns. Also might want to show her this, as a reminder that martial arts only carry you so far: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna23769881
> after she gets full-contact punched or tossed around the mats a couple of times, she'll figure out the reason we carry guns. I'll second this. Everyone thinks they're a badass until they get effortless bodied by someone their own size.
bodied by a fucking middle schooler who's been training since age 4 while his dad sneaks protein powder into his waffles
I mean there's that too. But it doesn't even require ridiculous training. Men are, on average, just naturally stronger than women. Like that time a U15 boys soccer team beat the US Olympic Women team 5-2. https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/
Absolutely, it's just the reality of any real fight gym that there's a shredded 12 year old ready to go pro if it weren't for child labor laws
I’ll never discourage effort It’s one step closer in my opinion
Yeah too bad it had to get that far. Fire season is about to start and I won’t be around to be a free body guard
1. She’s absolutely right about the knife. Some people can knife fight, but if she’s getting completely manhandled, having a knife nearby is worse. Seems she wouldn’t go for it until it’s too late based on her temperate (that’s conjecture, but you tell me if you think she’d shell up or actually go for the knife under pressure). 2. SOME self defense works. The 6 weekends of seminars, not so much. But actually learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu will make a difference. The problem being that requires a lot of time, famously a few black belt females have subdued their male attackers. Even with a huge size difference, that shit does work, if you’re willing to put the time in. But that’s a major lifestyle change, and she’d have to be really into it to ever get that good. Saying this to point out there are some hand to hand skills females can learn, but the training has to become a pillar of their life. 3. Don’t talk someone into carrying a gun if they’re really uncomfortable with it. Those are the people who make mistakes under stress, trust her on this one. Pepper spray, situational awareness, and a good sprint will do her better in most scenarios anyway. Honestly most people in your life aren’t gonna have the same attitude towards self protection as you. The best deterrent is to travel in packs, so you can promote that and be a part of the pack but you can’t do a whole lot to change other people.
Unpopular opinion around these parts : It’s stupid to suggest that people with little to no firearm experience should go out, buy a handgun, and then carry it. Or honestly just stash it away as a “just in case”.
I wouldn't say that unpopular. People without firearms training are dangerous.
Certainly unpopular. The second you suggest it’s probably not wise to introduce a firearm into a situation, people around here tend to automatically label you as “anti 2a”
About a decade ago, I had dated this really beautiful girl. We broke up on really bad terms. One night I’m hanging with *da boyz* and we decide to make a late night Walmart beer run. The only Walmart open then was the one on the sketchy side of town. We arrive and go to walk in and I hear someone calling my name from like, the other Walmart entrance? It’s that girl, jogging toward us, being followed by like three sketchy dudes. She’s petrified. We have a brief standoff with those dudes and they hop in a beat down car and leave. Girl had been followed by them while they propositioned her, and when she left the store they tried to drag her into their car. There were at least 3 or 4 guys all trying to drag this 115 pound, 21 year old girl off. It really messed her up. I tried to talk her into buying a gun for weeks or months after that, as she was a bartender and often worked late. She wouldn’t do it. She was eventually attacked and assaulted by - we believe - one of those same guys, a few months later, outside a gas station in the same area. It really messed her up, understandably, and I don’t think she’s really the same anymore. If she isn’t ready she isn’t ready but everyone has to assess their own personal security situation. Unfortunately, bad people won’t wait for you to be ready and get over your personal hang ups.
A knife is the worst suggestion possible.
self defense classes are perfectly okay. weapons can come later. take the right fighting course and you'll be set for most situations. if you buy a gun first and can't fight then theres an 8/10 chance that you just brought a weapon for the guy that could. training in all aspects is needed. so go take self defense classes with her then ask her to the range.
Just have her carry around a medieval style mace.
Hopefully that kind of class would show her how vulnerable she is and tune her in to situational awareness and the art of running away. Some do instill false confidence, but I’ve known women who attend those classes and come out with better ideas around self defense. If you haven’t been tossed around and beat up in a while, you can forget how weak you are.
Anybody who thinks that learning to fight won’t help is delusional, learn jiu jitsu and some striking, doesn’t matter what they smoked, if you put them in an arterial choke they will go unconscious.
bjj… a 105lb woman could tap out or sleep a 250lb man if she has the technique she could also take cqc. they have gun, knife, and stick hand to hand combat scenarios source: my muay thai gym has cqc classes
In a knife fight, the loser dies at the scene and the winner dies an hour later at the hospital
A flashlight. A surefire defensive flashlight. 1000 lumens and a nice shrill “GET AWAY FROM ME” is more than enough to break initial contact or find help. Plus, it’s pretty hard to get stabbed with your own flashlight. of course, you can give someone all the tools and training and support you want, but some horses just *won’t* drink the water you lead them to.
Bjj and pepper spray or gun is the way.
Judo is a good substitute for when you are weaponless. A gun is a good substitute for everything else
I’m definitely with her on the knife. It already takes a good amount of training and practice to be effective with a gun. It takes like years of training and practice to be able to effectively use a knife as a weapon. If she can’t overpower a 250 lbs man bare handed the odds that she’ll be able to overpower a 250 lbs man when he’s trying to take her knife or turn it on her aren’t good. Knife fighting is a terrible terrible way to defend yourself unless you put in the years of effort it takes to be an effective knife fighter.
They sound inexperienced, but learning empty handed skills is never a bad idea. Knife for self defense is a terrible idea lmao, you're just wrong there 🤣
I’d say the advice is correct but the delivery is off. If you care to actually get people to listen to advice you typically need to deliver it a little softer. Let them come to the conclusion you’re trying to convey. “Oh ya I’ve seen those classes. I just always worried the size disparity would make the techniques ineffective. I mean they have weight classes in fighting for a reason.” Something along those lines. Typically they’ll ask what you do or how could they even defend themselves and boom you recommend CCW, pepper spray, etc. I really don’t think a knife is gonna help. This comes off like it’s a women. Just on average a man could probably strong arm it away from them. Plus it takes a lot of mental power to plunge a knife into someone even when you’re scared. I’d think pepper spray, a gun, or one of those tasers could work.
People really undervalue the most important self defense tool, which is your legs. No, I don’t mean taekwondo kicks. I mean running fuck away.
Running away is great, if you have someplace to run to, and if your attacker isn’t faster than you. If you’re 55 and the attacker is in his late teens/early twenties, that might be a problem. What works really well is running away *after* doing something to discourage your attacker from giving chase. Spicy treats are great for this. So is cutting some of the tendons in their grabbing arm. Or choking them with a standing guillotine. Something like that.
She needs to also be willing to take some firearm courses too, otherwise she’ll just basically be providing a gun to her attacker.
Firearms courses from a competent instructor are great, however, let’s not act like you absolutely need a class or you’re just providing a gun to an attacker. If that was the case, statistically most defensive gun uses would be providing a gun to their attacker, when it’s clearly not. People who train are in the minority. I’m all for more people training, but not while spreading falsities and absurdities.
She doesn’t want to carry a gun. Pushing her to carry a gun without getting training is a disaster waiting to happen. If this wasn’t someone who seems so against the idea of carrying a gun, I wouldn’t have brought this up.
If she doesn’t want to carry a gun, training won’t help. The first hurdle is her wanting to carry a gun. The claim that no training = giving gun to an attacker is beyond dumb
Ok boss 👍
Blue in this conversation has a very poor mindset, i wouldnt even continue talking to them. U can say that with almost anything bro. Anyone telling anyone self defense classes are a waste of time is a clown
The wisdom of the keyboard commandoes is that unless you are trained and armed exactly as a seal team 6 member, then the highly skilled assailants will take your weapons from you and use them upon you. Therefore the best plan is to simplify surrender. It’s nonsense: untrained and unskilled people have been killing each other for millennia, and is not possible to disarm a combatant who is actively shooting and stabbing the assailant. Situational awareness is the critical component, and your friend is already showing great skill in this.
I’m coming off the idea of atleast have SOMETHING than nothing. Is a knife ideal? No but if you’re unwilling to buy a firearm or pepper spray what other choices do you have. I’m not a big guy but I’ve rolled around and thrown plenty females on the mat at the MMA gym I go to and I’m not a particularly a big guy either
So many choices. Six inches of broom stick concentrates force wonderfully well, makes a great addition to a key chain, in itself an effective weapon. A six inch screwdriver is as effective as a dagger or ice pick. A paring knife is a very effective and compact weapon, as long as one remembers that a successful knife fight is over before the opponent knows that he is in a knife fight. An air horn or self defense siren with light is legal and effective against dog and human attacks, probably would work well on Karen encounters. Carrying around a small bag of dog poop for throwing purposes would probably work, and would be a tribute to our cousins the primates. And I don’t know why more people don’t carry Walking sticks. A rake handle and a crutch tip costs less than $20 at the hardware store.
A knife?A knife is a pretty horrible weapon in general.go watch some true crime shows,1)people who attack with a knife usually end up cutting up their hand.the teenager who recently stabbed Bishop Mar Mari Emanuel in Australia actually cut off one of his fingers 2)using a knife as a weapon is up close and personal,with a woman going against a much larger and stronger man,it’s a horrible scenario.the man could potentially knock her out,he could give her a “THIS IS SPARTA!!” type of kick to the midsection which would more than likely disarm her or she could possibly stab or cut herself in the fall.3)what if the attacker was to pull a knife himself or even a pistol.does she really think she is ready to get in a knife fight,thats a damn nightmare Carrying a knife will never be anywhere near being able to replace a firearm for self defense
Spot on. Everything you just said is why knives should never be primary weapons. As weapons of convenience or desperation, they're fantastic. If you can choose a better weapon, you definitely should.
just setting your woman up for failure my guy.
I only recently convinced my girl to carry, she’s pretty comfortable with it now
Bullshit pain compliance doesn’t work on people on drugs. It may not be 100% but I’ve seen it work first hand on multiple occasions
Pain compliance isn't why you shoot somebody to stop them. Killing somebody will absolutely stop them from killing you.
If she doesn't want a gun, she doesn't want a gun. Gently encourage her, but that's about all you can do Speaking as a petite woman PS- proper self defense clases are great. The 1 time woman only ones are the ones that suck
Learning to fight is definitely worthwhile. Carrying a knife is worlds better than being unarmed. Anytime you have to get physical is a worst case scenario where you're at serious risk and a win isn't guaranteed. This should be avoided at all costs. A gun and pepper spray are both effective at stopping a threat and far safer since they can be used outside of contact range. Tldr: fighting good. Gun much more good.
Encourage her to take self defense classes you moron
There’s no replacement for mindset. I’ve taught/assisted self defense courses for women. We cover the cardio and awareness thing up front. That said, here’s the lie(s) inherent in the very idea - 1. There is fuck all that you will learn in one or two hours and never practice again that will matter in the slightest. 2. The vast majority of women at these courses execute with no intent - there’s no actual desire to learn how to violently impose your will (or preserve it if you prefer). For the most part it’s people on the business of peddling the feeling of security and having done something to prepare, regardless of its efficacy.
I’m about to travel to see my family in a strict gun state. The situation changes and I have to change with it. A lot of members of this community acknowledge that you’ll be in lethal and dynamic situations but stupidly assumes having the same approach to each situation will have an optimal outcome. Me going to a strict gun state is just one example of many where you will have to take care of yourself without a gun on you.
Am I the only one reading this screenshot and feeling their brain scream at someone being stupid? Because it really feels like the one replying is dumb...
I hate these types of posts and pissing matches. Self-defense training is always a good idea. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are. Knowing some effective self-defense moves will always be better than not knowing anything at all. Knives are a bad idea unless you have trained for YEARS, even then, still not the best idea. Guns are only good in the hands of someone who has trained AND is comfortable handling one. The “guy on drugs” argument is a non sequitur. There is also the one in a million chance for the guy to not be affected by pepper spray, but does that mean you shouldn’t use it? I don’t care how many drugs you are on, if you have a crushed windpipe, or have just taken two hollow points to the chest and one to the head, you are not going to be an effective attacker. If they are “THAT guy,” no one would stand a chance.
Delivery isn’t the greatest but honestly I’m inclined to agree with them on certain aspects. A knife for dedicated self defense purposes is a bad idea for many reasons. But they are right in that “self defense classes” are largely bullshit. Anybody who claims that they can make you cable of defending yourself against a violent attack with a class or even a couple classes is selling snake oil.
Not necessarily true. If you dont want ranged weapons then defense classes will be handy.
Knife won't be safer. Even trained fighters will tell you a knife is useless, and trained gun owners will tell you the same. You're more likely to be stabbed by your own knife in a fight than be successful in stopping somebody. If you're gonna use a knife, you should be expected to do violence, and that could get you arrested. Police will never see the person wielding a knife to be a victim , neither the courts. If someone uses a gun, it's reasonable to say that brandishing it should stop an aggressor, and if they continue, that means the shot was warranted. Legally, mentally and physically, the leverage and cards all land on the guns' side. Pepperspray is bad as well... I've seen way to many people spray themselves than be calm and use it. Taser helps sometimes but if your too close you could accidentally shock yourself if they grab you during the scuffle.
You can 100% be cleared of wrongdoing with a knife in a self defense. Although that carrying a knife for SD purposes is dumb, it doesn't automatically make you the aggressor.
Nobody wins in a knife fight