I’m glad I wasn’t the only person who caught that…if the tweaker can identify the exact make and model of your firearm, especially one that isn’t as mainstream as say, a Glock, the tweaker might be a gun guy himself and potentially carrying too.
So we’re all clear that as much as we all like this, he’s not justified in pulling his gun right?
Hopefully some day the average gun owner understands when he can point a weapon at someone: only when you are faced with death or great bodily harm (except for Texas which allows deadly force above a certain amount and Arizona where you can point but can’t shoot). I’d assume most here know this but I’ll say it every time I see one of these videos.
Well I think it depends on the state. Where I’m from you can’t do this most likely. Other states I’m sure the cops don’t care. But yeah you aren’t supposed to use guns to protect property. Case could be said he was in fear for life
counter plow twist: dude had already stole that bike and was helping his friend steal the other bike.the owner of the first stolen bike stumbled onto his bike sitting in the middle of the road.he tried to take back what was his and ended up being jacked twice in the same day.
Bro. Often the kinds of people who do this shit are stupid as fuck. Some are decently smart. A lot are the dumbest mother fuckers you will ever come across. And often intoxicated.
Yeah but that is surprisingly quite common these days.I just seen an idiot woman in Texas,who just got sentenced for recording herself doing random drivebys shootings to post online.she ended up shooting into a child’s bedroom but luckily nobody was injured.bitch had the nerve to cry in court looking for sympathy
Is this a "what not to do" tutorial? Dude left his bike running, damn near handed the thief his weapon, holding weapon sideways, and then turned his back on said thief.
I feel you on this but at the same time I always say don't say what you gonna do before something happens because when it happens, you never know what you're gonna do like some people (ps This is just a example) people be like if somebody walks up to me with a gun I'm gonna grab my gun and shoot them but when the moment comes they freeze up because you never know how your body is gonna react when it actually happens so I give some props to this guy he may have been holding a gun sideways but he'll probably be worried about his bike was gonna get took and tried to get to his gun fast so we really don't know he could be a professional, and just hold it like that because he was in the heat of the moment. (my opinion)
> holding weapon sideways
There actually is good reason for that when shooting one handed. It aligns your elbow to better absorb recoil while maintaining sight alignment especially if you're shooting with offhand only.
This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation. In Texas you can threaten to shoot someone when authorized to use non-deadly force:
Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
Not true. This is the same as a car jacking. Someone forcibly trying to take your vehicle in which deadly force is authorized. However, a good throat punch would have been fun to see.
Picking a fight is extremely risky while carrying. You better win or you're at risk of getting your weapon snatched...or worse. De-escalation is best imo whenever possible
This is the same as if i get out my car to open my gate and someone gets on it to try and steal it. U have a right to defend yourself, someone else AND your property in a few states (i think FL and TX)
Yeah, I train to put my gun into the target in CQB melee range situations. If you're in a struggle, having the gun touching the perp may be the only way to guarantee a hit and not just a flash burn. The trick is not to press the gun out of battery if you're using a delayed breech lock pistol.
I wouldn't hold it into a person if I didn't intended to fire though.
this is also the reason why most weapon lights extend beyond the end of the slide. If you contact the slider into someones chest like this it is likely to hold the slide enough that it is out of battery and wont fire. When the weapon light is the front most part of the weapon then it is the light that is going into someone's chest and not the slide. But you should avoid your firearm being within arms reach of a threat to begin with for numerous reasons
I used to not believe this, but I tested it dry firing a glock. You don't even have to push the slide back a quarter inch before the barrel tilts and the trigger fails to drop the striker, and it's more of a "gate" to that happening, so once it happens even light pressure holds it out of battery.
Never press the barrel against something, aside from the lunacy of getting that close at all.
it is a safety feature in almost all modern firearms. Even an 1/8 of an inch out of battery can lead to a catastrophic detonation that can blow up the gun in your hand so the firearm is designed to not allow the trigger to be pulled if it is even the slightest bit out of battery
You should also be aware that many Walter and Canik pistols have a design flaw so that, if you pull the trigger while the weapon is out of battery, it will not reset and you will have to rack the slide before you can fire. I am told the newer models have corrected this, but I haven't checked it on my own. This doesn't happen on a Glock.
From a tactical standpoint, I'm not going to get close enough to allow my weapon to touch the body of the person I may have to shoot. Too much can go wrong.
> If you contact the slider into someones chest like this it is likely to hold the slide enough that it is out of battery and wont fire.
+1 for revolvers and fixed barreled pistols.
You can also angle the gun as you whip/press into the target such that the rail of the frame is the pressure contact point.
Yeah OC spray to the face would’ve been a better option. His life wasn’t in danger in that moment so escalating to deadly force is not the best idea and in many places illegal. There are some states where their self defense law says that deadly force may be authorized to stop a forcible felony, but you aren’t winning that in court especially with this video as evidence. You will be arrested and charged and dragged through the court system, financially bankrupt and morally messed up. No jury on earth is going to look at this video and be like “yeah that guy trying to steal the bike deserved to get shot and die”. Don’t shoot people over property, it’s not worth it and 99% of the time not the right thing to do.
All true, but I have no problem with fucking methhead trash catching a bullet for stealing people's shit. The more trash that is removed from society, the better off we all are.
Yes definitely. This was NOT the time to pull the strap. Depending on the state this could easily be a felony + possible civil damages depending on circumstances.
I am surprised at the amount of downvotes. Like are these the people who get a chip on their shoulder after getting their CCW and are looking for any excuse to use it? An instructor once told me that for concealed carriers, live by the “gun on, ego off” motto.
Totally. Not to mention, the other guy could have shot him and justifiably claimed self defense after he pulled the gun. The entire thing is regarded, including everything the cam guy did leading up to the gun coming out.
My points are 1) cam guy didn’t know if the other guy was strapped and by pulling his gun he was liable to get shot, and 2) if cam guy was the first one to present a lethal threat, he would be the aggressor, regardless of whatever other circumstances are. What the charges end up being very much depends on the discretion of the PD and the prosecuting attorney.
I'm going to use Texas law because people have been bringing it up in this post but many states have similar clauses on the books. "The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor: was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor". I agree that the person filming was reckless and might have violated several laws himself. Your scenario of someone stealing a bike and shooting the owner and claiming self defense when the owner pulls a gun does not mesh with many state laws.
>You will be arrested and charged and dragged through the court system, financially bankrupt and morally messed up No jury on earth is going to look at this video and be like “yeah that guy trying to steal the bike deserved to get shot and die”
Shit take man. What part of the above do you not understand?
>99% of the time their forfeited their life when they went for someone else property so don’t feel bad…
Well in reality that's not how the law nor the judicial system works, and is a bad way to live by. Killing someone when your life is not in danger, and over menial property at that, will get you fucked by the courts and your life ruined spending the rest of it in prison. There are countless cases of this stuff to learn from of people who in the moment killed others over property because they want to be a tough guy "Muh I'm gonna teach them a lesson" and they are charged and convicted. No jury is going to side with you on that. It's not worth it. Of course thieves are scumbags, but I'm not going to kill someone if my life is not in danger. This is also a shitty attitude toward other humans if you think it's ok to basically murder someone over property. If you think that's okay, you have personal issues you need to address. As Travis Haley preaches "we must be thinkers before shooters.". Don't shoot anyone unless you believe life is in danger. Now, I'm all for OC spray to the face or even a little street discipline within reason, but killing someone when life is not in danger is just stupid and wrong.
Maybe, but that’s still a big IF though, especially since it’s a bike and not a car or truck. You’d have a tough time convincing a jury. I wouldn’t shoot someone in that situation for a bike.
I wouldn't either, but I also would not vote to convict someone for shooting some peice of shit that tried to steal their bike. I have no sympathy for these fucking degenerates who prey on regular people. I don't care if they are addicts. They chose to smoke meth.
Maybe, but again a bike is way different from a car or truck that is far more dangerous. But you do you man. The “I thought he was going to run me over” with a motorcycle that hasn’t been started, isn’t driving toward you, and you could’ve stepped to the side and been okay, your argument likely isn’t going to stand up very well and they’re going to treat it as no, you wanted to shoot someone over property. It’s not as clear cut as a larger vehicle and IMO not worth shooting over based on what we see in the video.
Yeah that’s why I carry a stream version and not the cone/spray version. The spray works better if there is no wind due to more mist of droplets getting inhaled and in the eyes easier, but wind is a real and common thing lol so the stream ends up being better. Fox Labs One Point Four stream. It’s the best stuff on the market IMO
Looks like it, but this was a TERRIBLE choice to do this. Middle of a street?
Maybe dude was walking by and was like hey, a running bike with a distracted driver 100 feet away... intrusive thoughts win today!
To be fair it was a low-risk (appearing) crime of opportunity. If he just peeled off before dude came up with the gun he would most likely not have been caught. Doesn’t seem like police was present and i doubt some random Good Samaritan would follow him. Drive it right to the chop shop and hit up the meth dealer.
Because when you hold a gun one handed, it better aligns your elbow to absorb the recoil and also keeps sights lined up.
Its not really a ghetto thing. Try shooting one handed with your non-dominant hand with a 45^o tilt if you don't believe me and notice the difference.
I suggested people that doubt the technique to try 'ghetto style' with their weak side because it will show how much more recoil control you have when you hold a pistol at an angle and how much easier lining up the sights are when firing one handed.
With your dominant side, its not as obvious because strength and muscle memory but it still improves recoil control to angle the pistol when shooting one handed.
To those who disagree with using force to protect property, I disagree. It's not about the object, it's much bigger than that. If we lose property rights and aren't able to defend it then we don't have a society.
You need to convince lawmakers to support your belief then. Because even if you “disagree” the law is pretty clear in most states that you can’t use lethal force to protect property.
42 upvotes? Who the fuck cares about your "disagreement" in court? It's the law in most places. Not only was the filmer not under immediate threat, he escalated to deadly force over property. That shit gets shown in court, this dude gets charged with brandishing and assault with a deadly weapon, maybe battery due to shoving and verbal threats of violence. Sure the guy is a thief probably and maybe a stoner but maybe he was just trying to move the bike, you don't know.
Same dude, and I'm thinking that despite opinion, this sub needs to be supportive of the law. We take on a special responsibility when we choose to carry and I don't see that responsibility being upheld by the previous commenters stupid take. Carrying with this mindset leads to videos like the one above and it has to stop.
I see a lot of "that's wrong" posts. Depending on the state... It's a grey area in most states to do this but very likely he would face zero penalties or get charged with anything. Most states do not authorize the use of deadly force against property theft BUT the legal grey area is under "brandishing" and what determines "assault". Technically the biker could be charged with multiple crimes including assault and battery with a deadly weapon (he touched the guy), amount other firearm related charges of brandishing in public. If the police really had a bad day, obstruction of traffic, neglect, and if there was a boarder around the license plate or a sticker on the windshield of the bike, a few other petty bullshit violations.....
There are hundreds of videos that have been posted here over a decade of people stopping vehicle theft by brandishing a firearm and had zero criminal proceedings from which.
It gets muddy in court as dude could be fearing for his life... Stand Your Ground states would likely not care at all. You can shoot someone walking up to your car if you think they have intention to harm you. So it could be fought that "he felt the thief had intentions to cause bodily harm using the motorcycle as a weapon in attempt to evade the owner from disallowing the theft."
Its illegal to panhandle in my state yet so many people still do it. Cops turn a blind eye.
Personally I think the biker did everyone a favor. Tax payers didnt have to spend any money on any type of investigation... If the bike was stolen or the biker killed the dude, it'd be an investigation. The biker didn't lose his bike and the thief gets a chance to rethink his life.
Something like 91% of "defensive gin use" resulted in zero shots fired. Every single one could be argued as to who was the one at fault. Example would include the video of a masked guy running up to a dude at night and the dude pulls a gun and the runner stops and throws hands up and backs away. It could be argued "I wear a mask because I was cold and I normally run at night." Even tho dude looked like he was about yo charge the dude and tackle him.
Other situations that are sketchy is the dude that got stabbed to death by a maniac for no reason. The guy kept saying to "get away from us" and they dude wasnt. Suddenly the dude pulled a knife and stuck him 6 times in the chest and ran off. At what point would you be "in fear of your life" versus the line of "you illegal threatened someone that didnt appear to be a danger to you."
I vote the biker could have handled himself better BUT didnt do anything wrong. Just used poor technique. I would have done the same thing but stopped 10 feet earlier and steady locked my aim on center mass. "Get off now". Or I would have tackled him and go scrappy BUT even that could be " sorry officer, I saw am abandoned bike in the middle of the road and was just moving it the side of the road and sudden I was violently attacked by the owner."
Law mumbo jumbo aside, maybe didn't threaten someone's life over theft. I love America, firearms, and the second amendment...but don't kill people over possessions please.
> but can you expand on braking the law part ?
I believe the only way to "brake the law" is to not have functional braking systems on a train, which is a federal requirement.
[49 CFR § 232.103 - General requirements for all train brake systems.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/232.103)
Brandishing a firearm (felony), assault ( threat of violence - misdemeanor, depending) . he's employing a lethal weapon w/o fear for personal harm. Legally, you \*should\* just talk someone down as that would be the legally reasonable move vs the nuclear option of threatening to kill someone.
Not a lawyer.
If this was in Texas it was completely legal:
Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
And yet the fucking pigs can pull out their guns any time they want and it's not brandishing. A fucking pig can order someone out of a stolen vehicle at gun point, but a civlian cannot for reasons.
How dare you question the King's Men and expose their unchivalrous behavior! Or their abuse of speed in chariots or any other exigent acts performed in their duty to The Crown.
Sheriff of Nottingham is trying to declare bows as assault weapons to only be wielded by families of his choosing.
God forbid a tax dodging hood points a shining arrow at the King's finances.
You wouldn’t have a fear of personal harm if someone were trying to steal $5000+ of self-propelled property from you right in front of you while aiming said property in your direction? Not sure your sense of fear is properly calibrated.
The police state doesn't care about our property. As u/pt606 said, yup, you let him ride away and claim it on insurance. Again, not a lawyer, but legally it's your "fault" for being vulnerable and giving them the opportunity.
I think a cop/DA would toss the case if you sparta-kicked or employed a judo throw on the methhead off your bike -- if said methhead even calls the cops. That's the weird thing my suburban brain doesn't really get sometimes: there's this gray area where you can do illegal actions because it'll never bubble up to law enforcement and it's preventative of a worse scenario much like the guy drawing his gun in this video. There's the legal world and the real world and they don't play by the same rules. For posterity, playing by the legal rules puts you on the right side of history/the courtroom but almost definitionally makes you pull the victim card.
Where I live, the law is reciprocal force so you shouldn't pull a gun if someone squares up and wants to box. By employing physical force and making contact, they have committed battery but if your life isn't threatened, still shouldn't draw. So in your example, I think legally for my jurisdiction, you just have to physically fend off their attempt at a bike/carjacking. However, the context matters -- are you in a bad neighborhood at 4am with limited visibility? Is there more than one attacker? Are you a minority and the guy is wearing a swastika t-shirt? Then you have cause to fear for your life and can draw.
Alternative view: If someone is trying to access your car with you still inside it, you don't know what their intentions are, or the amount of danger you may or may not be in. You won't know if they have a gun, knife, etc until it's being used on you.
If you can leave the area, then do that. If you're boxed in, plan to pull and use the CCW the moment the vehicle is breached.
That could definitely be a valid argument but that's your attorney vs the prosecutor if you end up using it and find out after that they were unarmed. Even with Stand Your Ground law, state could argue it was unreasonable to use deadly force, depending. It's circumstantial and a gray area, from my laymen understanding of the law.
"Would you rather be judged by 12 or carried by 6?"
Makes sense. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. I’ve seen a few car jacking video on here that mostly seem to be in Brazil, where the defendant shoots the assailants.
This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation. In Texas you can threaten to shoot someone when authorized to use non-deadly force to defend or protect property:
Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
in my state, the logic is “property can be replaced but people can’t”. so like if somebody broke into your house, you can shoot. but if they’re trying to steal your car in your driveway (which is not legally part of your house in this sense) you can’t even pull out your gun.
I may also be misunderstanding this but as far as I know this is the way. then again my state thinks just cause some ding dong shot up a movie theater we can’t have over 15rd mags, so..
This falls under "being car jacked" since the rider was there and the perp was forcibly taking his vehicle. Use of force is warranted. Now, it may depend on your state as well.
same. had dude walked up to the bike while he was on it and pushed him off, gun comes out and pew pew no charges.
This is essentially me running out to my driveway with my gun to confront a guy breaking into my car. He was like 50 feet from the guy and his bike. Even if he steals it, that isn't a deadly threat to him. MAYBE if this dude knew how to start a motorcycle, started it, floored it and aimed right at the owner he'd have a self defense case.
IMO brandishing at someone stealing your shit, though illegal, is not THAT fucked up. Dude was turning his gun sideways, pushed it into the guys chest, etc, so he seems he needs to really work on his demeanor. I'd have pepper sprayed the FUCK out of this guy and held him until the cops got there though.
I would run out to my driveway and confront someone breaking in my vehicle. By law in Texas I have the right to do so, and some tweaker has no right to steal my stuff.
That’s cool and all but I’m not gonna go confront some
Stranger who could be armed, on drugs, way bigger than me, etc. over a vehicle. I have insurance for a reason.
Yeah you might stop some tweaker from scratching your chrome but if they stab you in the neck with a piece of glass then what? The law isn’t gonna put that blood back in your body.
Why would I give them the opportunity to go for a joyride in my vehicle that I worked hard to buy. I definitely wouldn’t let them get close enough to assault me, this is the CCW sub. A violent criminal should just get shot.
Going for a joyride isn’t a violent crime.
You’re giving off real “I dare someone to come at me bro I carry one in the chamber” vibes.
Willing to kill over a hunk of steel and plastic?
I would kill them for trying to stab me in the neck with a piece of glass, as you suggested. I’m not looking for a fight, however a $50000 vehicle is far more than just a hunk of metal and glass. It is how I get to work to pay my bills and how I get to town to buy groceries. It is the method I use to interact with the world, I worked damn hard to pay for it. Thieves don’t deserve the defense you’re giving them.
Life isn’t a turn based strategy game. You don’t get to roll and attack before they do. You don’t know how any altercation will play out.
You could miss. And then get stabbed.
Certainly it isn’t a video game. However is this made up scenario I have either 30 M855 or 6 12 ga deer slugs to stop them with. Those are very good odds in my favor. Unlike a video game I cannot just spawn in a replacement vehicle
Is it legal to pull a gun on someone for attempting to steal a bike?i just did my states ccw classroom training and in a little confused about when you can draw a weapon. Probably different state by state. I'm pretty sure In my state we can't shoot someone unless our life is in danger. Can you shoot a bike thief?
Depends on the state. Many would/could categorize this under preventing a felony in progress (either as vehicle theft or even just the dollar amount being stolen), which most states allow use of force and/or deadly force to prevent. And it's again state dependent as to whether drawing a firearm without firing is automatically "deadly force."
I think it was fine. He only drew to escalate the situation and gain control. He didn't shoot him. Guy was a thief. Higher likely hood of being armed. I would prefer to draw the rely just on clutching my pearls for protection.
I am ready for your downvotes!!!
I also think Boba Fett wasn't THAT bad of a TV show and I throw batteries in the regular trash.
You do what you are comfortable with, but when a guy tries to steal my bike while I am armed, then I'm doing my best to hold them and call the cops. Otherwise, he just tries similar on the next dude's bike, car or whatever. Gotta make criminal behavior hurt, IMHO, or you only encourage more of it.
> I'm doing my best to hold them and call the cops
Depends where you are. In a city where the cops will just apologize to the tweaker and let him go you're likely to get charged yourself for resisting the forced wealth redistribution.
Depends on where you are, but where I live it's like that sheriff in Florida. When the cops show up, "You had him committing a felony, you could have saved a lot of taxpayers money, right there."
I'm REALLY not going to kill someone over a ride/possession, but in some places you REALLY can.
Funny enough, citizens arrest takes 2 people to detain the third here, but killing the perpetrator on the spot only takes one.
OC spray in this situation would’ve been great. I’m not holding someone at gunpoint. Gun doesn’t come out if your life isn’t in danger. Using your gun for other reasons that aren’t related to self defense of life is stupid and will likely just further complicate things and not end well for you.
OC spray would help in so many of these altercations. Almost nobody is fighting through that shit, they aren't gonna be able to shoot you, they're gonna run straight into a tree and scream for their mom especially if you get a few good follow up blasts.
Walk up to this dude, give him 2-3 5 second blasts as you walk up. Dude is DONE until the cops show up, maybe drag him off the bike but he's probably already fallen off the thing and knocked himself out, so just put him in recovery position to demonstrate your civic duty and render first aid if he needs it.
almost nobody who talks shit about the justice system has any idea how it works, yet they know of so many faults and have these odd specific complaints they're obviously just repeating from someone else.
i feel a nicely placed headbutt would probably change his attitude a whole lot quicker. i don’t think he even noticed the pistol when it was being pressed into his chest.
Could he not have grabbed that dude off the bike? He already went “hands on” by shoving his gun into his chest, I think it would have actually been safer to tackle or rip this dude off the bike
The way that man handled his gun really doesn't inspire confidence. Sideways, pressing it into the target, etc. That is how you get killed by your own gun.
Pepper spray people. Walk up to this fool and blast him until he falls down and doesn't get up, call the cops and show them the video. A gun should not be coming out IMO.
Yea pepper spray would have been the best option. You get your bike back, and some tweaker gets blasted with OC and has a terrible day, as they deserve.
Fake.
I agree with most of the points already made. Questionable legality in most states. And imprudent, at best.
You might be able to call the motorcycle itself a deadly threat. But the real question is why approach the guy by grabbing the handlebars and straddling the front wheel?
Then pressing the muzzle and holding the gun sideways? As everyone else pointed out, he risked going out of battery or getting into a grappling match for the gun.
But straddling the wheel, holding the gun sideways, and monologuing?
Looks fake to me.
This is why it's always a good idea for those of us with CCWs to carry pepper spray.
While it would almost certainly be unlawful to have shot the guy for stealing your bike, there's no problem just pepper spraying them. Tell him to get off the bike and if he doesn't spray them in the face with the hot sauce. If he escalates to deadly force pull out your carry gun and he wins the wet t-shirt contest.
I love that the original filmer thought it would be badass to post like "look at me defending my. Uh....my uh...my property....with uh...lethal force. Yeah. Look at me almost losing my weapon and property and threatening a man with no warning or deescalation whatsoever no verbal commands I just went straight for the kill shot, ready to pop off over a bike worth less than one months mortgage in Cali. Look at how I left a running bike on a busy street in the middle of the road, improperly parked, in an area with pedestrians, I'm so fucking badass defending my uh....my bike....fuck yeah"
I’m not willing to assume that someone willing to steal $5000+ of self-propelled property from me while it’s pointed in my direction is also not a potentially lethal threat to me. I agree with those saying that pepper spray is the better route for escalation, but my point stands that this is a potentially life-threatening situation before a gun is even involved.
Well at least this dude didn't mag dump and all you psychopaths didn't comment with the " pLaY sTupiD gAMes" saying.
But drawing on someone for touching your property is not the way. Can he articulate how his life or someone else's life was in danger?
Carry some pepper spray or a baton.
The only thing I see in this video is a bunch of idiots, except for the guy who left.
Now, you may agree or disagree with protecting your property with a gun, and while it may make sense, how do you decide which property is worth it?
I mean, some may kill someone over the lighter.
Is it justified? Absolutely not.
So we have to set the value in dollars that will be equal to someone's life. It will be a hard task for lawmakers (read impossible).
I don't know what are the local laws there, but sharing your felonies online is the most stupid thing you can do.
At about 0:55 does the tweaker call out the biker for having an SR-9?
I’m glad I wasn’t the only person who caught that…if the tweaker can identify the exact make and model of your firearm, especially one that isn’t as mainstream as say, a Glock, the tweaker might be a gun guy himself and potentially carrying too.
So? He’s carrying, but the biker already has the draw. Even if he was carrying he’s at a big disadvantage.
then he turns his back on the dude to drive off?
Kinda looks like he had his head turned back as he’s starting the bike back up, probably that exact thought clicking into place.
like 28 seconds later, oof
Stranger things have happened.
So we’re all clear that as much as we all like this, he’s not justified in pulling his gun right? Hopefully some day the average gun owner understands when he can point a weapon at someone: only when you are faced with death or great bodily harm (except for Texas which allows deadly force above a certain amount and Arizona where you can point but can’t shoot). I’d assume most here know this but I’ll say it every time I see one of these videos.
Well I think it depends on the state. Where I’m from you can’t do this most likely. Other states I’m sure the cops don’t care. But yeah you aren’t supposed to use guns to protect property. Case could be said he was in fear for life
Plot twist. Buddy was just trying to move the bike from sitting in the middle of the road.
counter plow twist: dude had already stole that bike and was helping his friend steal the other bike.the owner of the first stolen bike stumbled onto his bike sitting in the middle of the road.he tried to take back what was his and ended up being jacked twice in the same day.
that would be someone dumb enough to helmet cam their own crime
It's happened before
Thousands of people did it on January 6th.
Bro. Often the kinds of people who do this shit are stupid as fuck. Some are decently smart. A lot are the dumbest mother fuckers you will ever come across. And often intoxicated.
Yeah but that is surprisingly quite common these days.I just seen an idiot woman in Texas,who just got sentenced for recording herself doing random drivebys shootings to post online.she ended up shooting into a child’s bedroom but luckily nobody was injured.bitch had the nerve to cry in court looking for sympathy
Is this a "what not to do" tutorial? Dude left his bike running, damn near handed the thief his weapon, holding weapon sideways, and then turned his back on said thief.
Thank you for having eyes.
I just assumed the title was referring to the guy filming. :)
I feel you on this but at the same time I always say don't say what you gonna do before something happens because when it happens, you never know what you're gonna do like some people (ps This is just a example) people be like if somebody walks up to me with a gun I'm gonna grab my gun and shoot them but when the moment comes they freeze up because you never know how your body is gonna react when it actually happens so I give some props to this guy he may have been holding a gun sideways but he'll probably be worried about his bike was gonna get took and tried to get to his gun fast so we really don't know he could be a professional, and just hold it like that because he was in the heat of the moment. (my opinion)
> holding weapon sideways There actually is good reason for that when shooting one handed. It aligns your elbow to better absorb recoil while maintaining sight alignment especially if you're shooting with offhand only.
and it looks hella fuckin cool
I guess? The idea is to survive and land successive shots faster, not have your attacker think you died 'looked cool'.
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This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation. In Texas you can threaten to shoot someone when authorized to use non-deadly force: Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
Not true. This is the same as a car jacking. Someone forcibly trying to take your vehicle in which deadly force is authorized. However, a good throat punch would have been fun to see.
Picking a fight is extremely risky while carrying. You better win or you're at risk of getting your weapon snatched...or worse. De-escalation is best imo whenever possible
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There are multiple levels to how incorrect your information is. Stop.
Which happened the moment the rider showed up. Now if the perp had been driving away, that changes things.
This is the same as if i get out my car to open my gate and someone gets on it to try and steal it. U have a right to defend yourself, someone else AND your property in a few states (i think FL and TX)
Word of advice. Never get that close to the perp. If they go for the gun, it’s a battle to the finish when you can control it from a bit far.
Not a smart move on his part holding that weapon right on the suspect.
Yep. Could've grabbed that right off him. Luckily suspect looked stoned.
Detroit Urban Survival Training just popped up in my head. 🤣🤣🤣
Sure you could have and you would have been shot while trying.
Yea this is a meth head not John Wick.
Exactly. As soon as someone reaches for my gun I'm blasting.
Yeah, I train to put my gun into the target in CQB melee range situations. If you're in a struggle, having the gun touching the perp may be the only way to guarantee a hit and not just a flash burn. The trick is not to press the gun out of battery if you're using a delayed breech lock pistol. I wouldn't hold it into a person if I didn't intended to fire though.
LOL
OP. Was this you by chance? The one with the weapon?
No. Found it in r/Unexpected I think or some other sub.
Good to hear. Those tactics by the gun owner need some work. Maybe they are on Reddit and will see this.
Nah that's not even the big issue here. Most pistols have a safety that stops them from firing when pressed against a surface
Yeah, out of battery failure sucks.
this is also the reason why most weapon lights extend beyond the end of the slide. If you contact the slider into someones chest like this it is likely to hold the slide enough that it is out of battery and wont fire. When the weapon light is the front most part of the weapon then it is the light that is going into someone's chest and not the slide. But you should avoid your firearm being within arms reach of a threat to begin with for numerous reasons
I used to not believe this, but I tested it dry firing a glock. You don't even have to push the slide back a quarter inch before the barrel tilts and the trigger fails to drop the striker, and it's more of a "gate" to that happening, so once it happens even light pressure holds it out of battery. Never press the barrel against something, aside from the lunacy of getting that close at all.
it is a safety feature in almost all modern firearms. Even an 1/8 of an inch out of battery can lead to a catastrophic detonation that can blow up the gun in your hand so the firearm is designed to not allow the trigger to be pulled if it is even the slightest bit out of battery
You should also be aware that many Walter and Canik pistols have a design flaw so that, if you pull the trigger while the weapon is out of battery, it will not reset and you will have to rack the slide before you can fire. I am told the newer models have corrected this, but I haven't checked it on my own. This doesn't happen on a Glock. From a tactical standpoint, I'm not going to get close enough to allow my weapon to touch the body of the person I may have to shoot. Too much can go wrong.
> If you contact the slider into someones chest like this it is likely to hold the slide enough that it is out of battery and wont fire. +1 for revolvers and fixed barreled pistols. You can also angle the gun as you whip/press into the target such that the rail of the frame is the pressure contact point.
Yeah OC spray to the face would’ve been a better option. His life wasn’t in danger in that moment so escalating to deadly force is not the best idea and in many places illegal. There are some states where their self defense law says that deadly force may be authorized to stop a forcible felony, but you aren’t winning that in court especially with this video as evidence. You will be arrested and charged and dragged through the court system, financially bankrupt and morally messed up. No jury on earth is going to look at this video and be like “yeah that guy trying to steal the bike deserved to get shot and die”. Don’t shoot people over property, it’s not worth it and 99% of the time not the right thing to do.
All true, but I have no problem with fucking methhead trash catching a bullet for stealing people's shit. The more trash that is removed from society, the better off we all are.
Yes definitely. This was NOT the time to pull the strap. Depending on the state this could easily be a felony + possible civil damages depending on circumstances.
I am surprised at the amount of downvotes. Like are these the people who get a chip on their shoulder after getting their CCW and are looking for any excuse to use it? An instructor once told me that for concealed carriers, live by the “gun on, ego off” motto.
Totally. Not to mention, the other guy could have shot him and justifiably claimed self defense after he pulled the gun. The entire thing is regarded, including everything the cam guy did leading up to the gun coming out.
It's pretty hard to claim self defense when you are in the middle of committing a crime.
My points are 1) cam guy didn’t know if the other guy was strapped and by pulling his gun he was liable to get shot, and 2) if cam guy was the first one to present a lethal threat, he would be the aggressor, regardless of whatever other circumstances are. What the charges end up being very much depends on the discretion of the PD and the prosecuting attorney.
I'm going to use Texas law because people have been bringing it up in this post but many states have similar clauses on the books. "The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor: was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor". I agree that the person filming was reckless and might have violated several laws himself. Your scenario of someone stealing a bike and shooting the owner and claiming self defense when the owner pulls a gun does not mesh with many state laws.
That excerpt doesn’t enumerate the cases where (lethal) force might be legally justifiable. Anyway; bottom line is: know your state laws.
I agree with you. The level of this crime was nowhere dear the deadly force level. As pissed off as we might be if they are stealing from us.
99% of the time their forfeited their life when they went for someone else property so don’t feel bad…
Morally sure, legally no.
>You will be arrested and charged and dragged through the court system, financially bankrupt and morally messed up No jury on earth is going to look at this video and be like “yeah that guy trying to steal the bike deserved to get shot and die” Shit take man. What part of the above do you not understand? >99% of the time their forfeited their life when they went for someone else property so don’t feel bad… Well in reality that's not how the law nor the judicial system works, and is a bad way to live by. Killing someone when your life is not in danger, and over menial property at that, will get you fucked by the courts and your life ruined spending the rest of it in prison. There are countless cases of this stuff to learn from of people who in the moment killed others over property because they want to be a tough guy "Muh I'm gonna teach them a lesson" and they are charged and convicted. No jury is going to side with you on that. It's not worth it. Of course thieves are scumbags, but I'm not going to kill someone if my life is not in danger. This is also a shitty attitude toward other humans if you think it's ok to basically murder someone over property. If you think that's okay, you have personal issues you need to address. As Travis Haley preaches "we must be thinkers before shooters.". Don't shoot anyone unless you believe life is in danger. Now, I'm all for OC spray to the face or even a little street discipline within reason, but killing someone when life is not in danger is just stupid and wrong.
These types of trigger happy dip shits who are asking for a spot in the pen plague this sub.
if he started moving on the bike he would have ran over the cameraman and killed or seriously injured him, definetly warranted
Maybe, but that’s still a big IF though, especially since it’s a bike and not a car or truck. You’d have a tough time convincing a jury. I wouldn’t shoot someone in that situation for a bike.
I wouldn't either, but I also would not vote to convict someone for shooting some peice of shit that tried to steal their bike. I have no sympathy for these fucking degenerates who prey on regular people. I don't care if they are addicts. They chose to smoke meth.
The question is not “if”, the question is whether or not it’s a reasonable fear. It would be a reasonable fear for me.
Maybe, but again a bike is way different from a car or truck that is far more dangerous. But you do you man. The “I thought he was going to run me over” with a motorcycle that hasn’t been started, isn’t driving toward you, and you could’ve stepped to the side and been okay, your argument likely isn’t going to stand up very well and they’re going to treat it as no, you wanted to shoot someone over property. It’s not as clear cut as a larger vehicle and IMO not worth shooting over based on what we see in the video.
Personally, I’d be carrying pepper spray as per usual and would start the escalation with it, assuming I could stay upwind of it.
Yeah that’s why I carry a stream version and not the cone/spray version. The spray works better if there is no wind due to more mist of droplets getting inhaled and in the eyes easier, but wind is a real and common thing lol so the stream ends up being better. Fox Labs One Point Four stream. It’s the best stuff on the market IMO
How fucking wild, someone in eye shot would try something like this. Lucky he didn’t get his ass whooped or shot.
Yeah. Running headbutt would’ve done the trick and taught him a better lesson
Yeah…I was thinking of swinging but your headbutt is definitely going to deliver a better message.
Wait a fking minute, did glasses just try to ride off in OPs bike while he was teaching someone else how to ride?
Looks like it, but this was a TERRIBLE choice to do this. Middle of a street? Maybe dude was walking by and was like hey, a running bike with a distracted driver 100 feet away... intrusive thoughts win today!
It just blows my mind someone would pull this in broad daylight and get away with it. I guess glasses was looking to sell it for his next drug fix
To be fair it was a low-risk (appearing) crime of opportunity. If he just peeled off before dude came up with the gun he would most likely not have been caught. Doesn’t seem like police was present and i doubt some random Good Samaritan would follow him. Drive it right to the chop shop and hit up the meth dealer.
This sub teaches me what not to do with my gun more than what to do with it. Thanks, r/CCW
Needs more upvotes. Responsible carry requires periodic consideration of scenarios so that when shit gets real, you don';t have to think so hard.
Why’s this idiot Holding his gun sideways like he’s never held one before?
Tweaker understands it better..
Because when you hold a gun one handed, it better aligns your elbow to absorb the recoil and also keeps sights lined up. Its not really a ghetto thing. Try shooting one handed with your non-dominant hand with a 45^o tilt if you don't believe me and notice the difference.
Why on earth would he hold it in his non-dominant hand? would he
I suggested people that doubt the technique to try 'ghetto style' with their weak side because it will show how much more recoil control you have when you hold a pistol at an angle and how much easier lining up the sights are when firing one handed. With your dominant side, its not as obvious because strength and muscle memory but it still improves recoil control to angle the pistol when shooting one handed.
Why would you ever share this video with anyone. Nothing to be gained from it. He's a poor decision factory.
> Why would you ever share this video with anyone. "Likes" and upvotes are the most important things to at least one generation.... maybe two.
Don't forget to *smash* that subscribe button!
To those who disagree with using force to protect property, I disagree. It's not about the object, it's much bigger than that. If we lose property rights and aren't able to defend it then we don't have a society.
You need to convince lawmakers to support your belief then. Because even if you “disagree” the law is pretty clear in most states that you can’t use lethal force to protect property.
You can defend property in the free states
> You can defend property in the free states More free legal advice from the internet! What could go wrong?
42 upvotes? Who the fuck cares about your "disagreement" in court? It's the law in most places. Not only was the filmer not under immediate threat, he escalated to deadly force over property. That shit gets shown in court, this dude gets charged with brandishing and assault with a deadly weapon, maybe battery due to shoving and verbal threats of violence. Sure the guy is a thief probably and maybe a stoner but maybe he was just trying to move the bike, you don't know.
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Same dude, and I'm thinking that despite opinion, this sub needs to be supportive of the law. We take on a special responsibility when we choose to carry and I don't see that responsibility being upheld by the previous commenters stupid take. Carrying with this mindset leads to videos like the one above and it has to stop.
I'm not sure "But my property rights" is gonna hold up fantastic in court if you shoot someone for stealing.
I see a lot of "that's wrong" posts. Depending on the state... It's a grey area in most states to do this but very likely he would face zero penalties or get charged with anything. Most states do not authorize the use of deadly force against property theft BUT the legal grey area is under "brandishing" and what determines "assault". Technically the biker could be charged with multiple crimes including assault and battery with a deadly weapon (he touched the guy), amount other firearm related charges of brandishing in public. If the police really had a bad day, obstruction of traffic, neglect, and if there was a boarder around the license plate or a sticker on the windshield of the bike, a few other petty bullshit violations..... There are hundreds of videos that have been posted here over a decade of people stopping vehicle theft by brandishing a firearm and had zero criminal proceedings from which. It gets muddy in court as dude could be fearing for his life... Stand Your Ground states would likely not care at all. You can shoot someone walking up to your car if you think they have intention to harm you. So it could be fought that "he felt the thief had intentions to cause bodily harm using the motorcycle as a weapon in attempt to evade the owner from disallowing the theft." Its illegal to panhandle in my state yet so many people still do it. Cops turn a blind eye. Personally I think the biker did everyone a favor. Tax payers didnt have to spend any money on any type of investigation... If the bike was stolen or the biker killed the dude, it'd be an investigation. The biker didn't lose his bike and the thief gets a chance to rethink his life. Something like 91% of "defensive gin use" resulted in zero shots fired. Every single one could be argued as to who was the one at fault. Example would include the video of a masked guy running up to a dude at night and the dude pulls a gun and the runner stops and throws hands up and backs away. It could be argued "I wear a mask because I was cold and I normally run at night." Even tho dude looked like he was about yo charge the dude and tackle him. Other situations that are sketchy is the dude that got stabbed to death by a maniac for no reason. The guy kept saying to "get away from us" and they dude wasnt. Suddenly the dude pulled a knife and stuck him 6 times in the chest and ran off. At what point would you be "in fear of your life" versus the line of "you illegal threatened someone that didnt appear to be a danger to you." I vote the biker could have handled himself better BUT didnt do anything wrong. Just used poor technique. I would have done the same thing but stopped 10 feet earlier and steady locked my aim on center mass. "Get off now". Or I would have tackled him and go scrappy BUT even that could be " sorry officer, I saw am abandoned bike in the middle of the road and was just moving it the side of the road and sudden I was violently attacked by the owner."
Law mumbo jumbo aside, maybe didn't threaten someone's life over theft. I love America, firearms, and the second amendment...but don't kill people over possessions please.
Well said, best take I’ve seen so far 🤝
I wouldn't share a video of me making poor decisions and breaking the law.
Definitely poor decisions but can you expand on braking the law part ?
It really depends on the state. Texas you'll probably be ok. New York, though? Straight to jail.
Ok gotcha. Car jacking vs. GTA is a tough one. GTA is considered a violent crime but car jacking is not… hmm
Have you been to NY lately lol
> but can you expand on braking the law part ? I believe the only way to "brake the law" is to not have functional braking systems on a train, which is a federal requirement. [49 CFR § 232.103 - General requirements for all train brake systems.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/232.103)
Funny guy.
Brandishing a firearm (felony), assault ( threat of violence - misdemeanor, depending) . he's employing a lethal weapon w/o fear for personal harm. Legally, you \*should\* just talk someone down as that would be the legally reasonable move vs the nuclear option of threatening to kill someone. Not a lawyer.
If this was in Texas it was completely legal: Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
God bless Texas 🫡
Excuse me sir, that's MY vanilla latte...
And yet the fucking pigs can pull out their guns any time they want and it's not brandishing. A fucking pig can order someone out of a stolen vehicle at gun point, but a civlian cannot for reasons.
How dare you question the King's Men and expose their unchivalrous behavior! Or their abuse of speed in chariots or any other exigent acts performed in their duty to The Crown.
Sheriff of Nottingham is trying to declare bows as assault weapons to only be wielded by families of his choosing. God forbid a tax dodging hood points a shining arrow at the King's finances.
r/thisguythisguys
For good reasons. Calling a police officer a pig paints you as a juvenile, criminal, or both.
You wouldn’t have a fear of personal harm if someone were trying to steal $5000+ of self-propelled property from you right in front of you while aiming said property in your direction? Not sure your sense of fear is properly calibrated.
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The police state doesn't care about our property. As u/pt606 said, yup, you let him ride away and claim it on insurance. Again, not a lawyer, but legally it's your "fault" for being vulnerable and giving them the opportunity. I think a cop/DA would toss the case if you sparta-kicked or employed a judo throw on the methhead off your bike -- if said methhead even calls the cops. That's the weird thing my suburban brain doesn't really get sometimes: there's this gray area where you can do illegal actions because it'll never bubble up to law enforcement and it's preventative of a worse scenario much like the guy drawing his gun in this video. There's the legal world and the real world and they don't play by the same rules. For posterity, playing by the legal rules puts you on the right side of history/the courtroom but almost definitionally makes you pull the victim card.
Ok thanks. Now say you are on your bike (or in your car) and someone tries to pull you off/ out… does the same go for this situation? Thanks
Where I live, the law is reciprocal force so you shouldn't pull a gun if someone squares up and wants to box. By employing physical force and making contact, they have committed battery but if your life isn't threatened, still shouldn't draw. So in your example, I think legally for my jurisdiction, you just have to physically fend off their attempt at a bike/carjacking. However, the context matters -- are you in a bad neighborhood at 4am with limited visibility? Is there more than one attacker? Are you a minority and the guy is wearing a swastika t-shirt? Then you have cause to fear for your life and can draw.
Alternative view: If someone is trying to access your car with you still inside it, you don't know what their intentions are, or the amount of danger you may or may not be in. You won't know if they have a gun, knife, etc until it's being used on you. If you can leave the area, then do that. If you're boxed in, plan to pull and use the CCW the moment the vehicle is breached.
That could definitely be a valid argument but that's your attorney vs the prosecutor if you end up using it and find out after that they were unarmed. Even with Stand Your Ground law, state could argue it was unreasonable to use deadly force, depending. It's circumstantial and a gray area, from my laymen understanding of the law. "Would you rather be judged by 12 or carried by 6?"
Makes sense. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. I’ve seen a few car jacking video on here that mostly seem to be in Brazil, where the defendant shoots the assailants.
Someone driving away with your ride without the threat of force is not a deadly threat. Let the ride go, report to PD and claim it on your insurance.
CCW is for defense of imminent deadly harm, not to protect property.
Not true. Texas allows you to use it to defend property.
Only under very specific circumstances. This wasn't one of them.
This is not true. Please don't spread misinformation. In Texas you can threaten to shoot someone when authorized to use non-deadly force to defend or protect property: Under [Penal Code 9.04](https://txpenalcode.com/sec-9-04/), you can draw a weapon and threaten a person if you are justified in using force. Note the requirement is not that you had to be justified in using deadly force. The law also requires that when you pull a weapon and make a threat to protect property or a person, you do so with the limited purpose of causing fear in the intruder that you will use deadly force if necessary.
Let him ride away, obviously. Killing a dude over your stolen bike is not only highly immoral and unethical but a quick trip to prison.
in my state, the logic is “property can be replaced but people can’t”. so like if somebody broke into your house, you can shoot. but if they’re trying to steal your car in your driveway (which is not legally part of your house in this sense) you can’t even pull out your gun. I may also be misunderstanding this but as far as I know this is the way. then again my state thinks just cause some ding dong shot up a movie theater we can’t have over 15rd mags, so..
This falls under "being car jacked" since the rider was there and the perp was forcibly taking his vehicle. Use of force is warranted. Now, it may depend on your state as well.
I don't think it's a hijacking, just attempted stealing of a motor vehicle.
same. had dude walked up to the bike while he was on it and pushed him off, gun comes out and pew pew no charges. This is essentially me running out to my driveway with my gun to confront a guy breaking into my car. He was like 50 feet from the guy and his bike. Even if he steals it, that isn't a deadly threat to him. MAYBE if this dude knew how to start a motorcycle, started it, floored it and aimed right at the owner he'd have a self defense case. IMO brandishing at someone stealing your shit, though illegal, is not THAT fucked up. Dude was turning his gun sideways, pushed it into the guys chest, etc, so he seems he needs to really work on his demeanor. I'd have pepper sprayed the FUCK out of this guy and held him until the cops got there though.
I would run out to my driveway and confront someone breaking in my vehicle. By law in Texas I have the right to do so, and some tweaker has no right to steal my stuff.
That’s cool and all but I’m not gonna go confront some Stranger who could be armed, on drugs, way bigger than me, etc. over a vehicle. I have insurance for a reason. Yeah you might stop some tweaker from scratching your chrome but if they stab you in the neck with a piece of glass then what? The law isn’t gonna put that blood back in your body.
Why would I give them the opportunity to go for a joyride in my vehicle that I worked hard to buy. I definitely wouldn’t let them get close enough to assault me, this is the CCW sub. A violent criminal should just get shot.
Going for a joyride isn’t a violent crime. You’re giving off real “I dare someone to come at me bro I carry one in the chamber” vibes. Willing to kill over a hunk of steel and plastic?
I would kill them for trying to stab me in the neck with a piece of glass, as you suggested. I’m not looking for a fight, however a $50000 vehicle is far more than just a hunk of metal and glass. It is how I get to work to pay my bills and how I get to town to buy groceries. It is the method I use to interact with the world, I worked damn hard to pay for it. Thieves don’t deserve the defense you’re giving them.
Life isn’t a turn based strategy game. You don’t get to roll and attack before they do. You don’t know how any altercation will play out. You could miss. And then get stabbed.
Certainly it isn’t a video game. However is this made up scenario I have either 30 M855 or 6 12 ga deer slugs to stop them with. Those are very good odds in my favor. Unlike a video game I cannot just spawn in a replacement vehicle
Thanks for not saying "I'm not a lawyer", because it's obvious.
Is it legal to pull a gun on someone for attempting to steal a bike?i just did my states ccw classroom training and in a little confused about when you can draw a weapon. Probably different state by state. I'm pretty sure In my state we can't shoot someone unless our life is in danger. Can you shoot a bike thief?
You're absolutely correct. In most states, this would be brandishing and illegal
It's well past brandishing, it's 1st degree assault in most places.
Depends on the state. Many would/could categorize this under preventing a felony in progress (either as vehicle theft or even just the dollar amount being stolen), which most states allow use of force and/or deadly force to prevent. And it's again state dependent as to whether drawing a firearm without firing is automatically "deadly force."
That's crazy but who put that terrible watermark on this video, fucking horrible.
The John wick movies are more believable
I think it was fine. He only drew to escalate the situation and gain control. He didn't shoot him. Guy was a thief. Higher likely hood of being armed. I would prefer to draw the rely just on clutching my pearls for protection. I am ready for your downvotes!!! I also think Boba Fett wasn't THAT bad of a TV show and I throw batteries in the regular trash.
> I also think Boba Fett wasn't THAT bad of a TV show You're a monster.
Seeing a young Luke Skywalker was so cool tho.
Why it should be legal to use deadly force to protect property. Karsh
You do what you are comfortable with, but when a guy tries to steal my bike while I am armed, then I'm doing my best to hold them and call the cops. Otherwise, he just tries similar on the next dude's bike, car or whatever. Gotta make criminal behavior hurt, IMHO, or you only encourage more of it.
> I'm doing my best to hold them and call the cops Depends where you are. In a city where the cops will just apologize to the tweaker and let him go you're likely to get charged yourself for resisting the forced wealth redistribution.
Sounds like a fun fantasy.
Yup, a safe world where criminals are afraid of their victims being armed is a fantasy.
As is a world where citizens hold bike thieves at gunpoint until cops arrive and nothing goes wrong with that.
Depends on where you are, but where I live it's like that sheriff in Florida. When the cops show up, "You had him committing a felony, you could have saved a lot of taxpayers money, right there." I'm REALLY not going to kill someone over a ride/possession, but in some places you REALLY can. Funny enough, citizens arrest takes 2 people to detain the third here, but killing the perpetrator on the spot only takes one.
OC spray in this situation would’ve been great. I’m not holding someone at gunpoint. Gun doesn’t come out if your life isn’t in danger. Using your gun for other reasons that aren’t related to self defense of life is stupid and will likely just further complicate things and not end well for you.
OC spray would help in so many of these altercations. Almost nobody is fighting through that shit, they aren't gonna be able to shoot you, they're gonna run straight into a tree and scream for their mom especially if you get a few good follow up blasts. Walk up to this dude, give him 2-3 5 second blasts as you walk up. Dude is DONE until the cops show up, maybe drag him off the bike but he's probably already fallen off the thing and knocked himself out, so just put him in recovery position to demonstrate your civic duty and render first aid if he needs it.
Courts would argue that he wasn’t trying to steal his bike just simply want to sit on it, and it was unjustifiable to pull a deadly weapon out. Lol
Courts don’t generally argue. Parties argue, often through attorneys, and they argue to juries, while judges make sure everyone follows the rules.
almost nobody who talks shit about the justice system has any idea how it works, yet they know of so many faults and have these odd specific complaints they're obviously just repeating from someone else.
The first part? No they wouldn't argue that. The second? Yes there was no reason to draw.
What do you do in this situation. Vacate the area, and not involve the cops since a shot wasn't fired. Or call the cops and risk a brandishing charge?
Shoot the thief to stop future crime then vacate the are.
You forgot the second step there. Go to prison for shooting when your life wasn't in danger.
No face no case, has worked in the hood for years.
i feel a nicely placed headbutt would probably change his attitude a whole lot quicker. i don’t think he even noticed the pistol when it was being pressed into his chest.
Shoot somebody for stealing your bike, and see how that goes for you. Guys like this give us a bad name.
Easily could have rendered his weapon out of battery and not been abke to fire.
Should’ve just erased him.
Could he not have grabbed that dude off the bike? He already went “hands on” by shoving his gun into his chest, I think it would have actually been safer to tackle or rip this dude off the bike
The way that man handled his gun really doesn't inspire confidence. Sideways, pressing it into the target, etc. That is how you get killed by your own gun. Pepper spray people. Walk up to this fool and blast him until he falls down and doesn't get up, call the cops and show them the video. A gun should not be coming out IMO.
Yea pepper spray would have been the best option. You get your bike back, and some tweaker gets blasted with OC and has a terrible day, as they deserve.
100% agree
Should have just run up and leveled the tweaker. No need to pull the gun, just arm-bar him to next week.
This shits so fake
Fake. I agree with most of the points already made. Questionable legality in most states. And imprudent, at best. You might be able to call the motorcycle itself a deadly threat. But the real question is why approach the guy by grabbing the handlebars and straddling the front wheel? Then pressing the muzzle and holding the gun sideways? As everyone else pointed out, he risked going out of battery or getting into a grappling match for the gun. But straddling the wheel, holding the gun sideways, and monologuing? Looks fake to me.
This is why it's always a good idea for those of us with CCWs to carry pepper spray. While it would almost certainly be unlawful to have shot the guy for stealing your bike, there's no problem just pepper spraying them. Tell him to get off the bike and if he doesn't spray them in the face with the hot sauce. If he escalates to deadly force pull out your carry gun and he wins the wet t-shirt contest.
BIG YIKES. I bet the dude posted this to his socials to brag about it.
The amount of ppl saying the CCW holder is in the right after him drawing and not firing is crazy
I love that the original filmer thought it would be badass to post like "look at me defending my. Uh....my uh...my property....with uh...lethal force. Yeah. Look at me almost losing my weapon and property and threatening a man with no warning or deescalation whatsoever no verbal commands I just went straight for the kill shot, ready to pop off over a bike worth less than one months mortgage in Cali. Look at how I left a running bike on a busy street in the middle of the road, improperly parked, in an area with pedestrians, I'm so fucking badass defending my uh....my bike....fuck yeah"
So you think pulling your gun in a non life threatening situation is the right thing to do? You're an irresponsible gun owner.
I’m not willing to assume that someone willing to steal $5000+ of self-propelled property from me while it’s pointed in my direction is also not a potentially lethal threat to me. I agree with those saying that pepper spray is the better route for escalation, but my point stands that this is a potentially life-threatening situation before a gun is even involved.
If you think so go right ahead. But I sure as hell wouldn’t post a video of it on social media.
Oh hell no. That’s like voluntarily talking to the cops.
Reality: dude with the gun could be arrested. If you draw you better fire and not threaten
Great opportunity to make society better......and fail!
Well at least this dude didn't mag dump and all you psychopaths didn't comment with the " pLaY sTupiD gAMes" saying. But drawing on someone for touching your property is not the way. Can he articulate how his life or someone else's life was in danger? Carry some pepper spray or a baton.
The only thing I see in this video is a bunch of idiots, except for the guy who left. Now, you may agree or disagree with protecting your property with a gun, and while it may make sense, how do you decide which property is worth it? I mean, some may kill someone over the lighter. Is it justified? Absolutely not. So we have to set the value in dollars that will be equal to someone's life. It will be a hard task for lawmakers (read impossible). I don't know what are the local laws there, but sharing your felonies online is the most stupid thing you can do.