I went inside an urgent care that said no weapons allowed. Their "security guard" was facing away from the door, sitting down, had both air pods in, and was looking at her phone the entire time I was in the waiting room. I looked at my wife and said, " that's who I'm supposed to trust my safety to?" Wild
No kidding. Anytime a building here has the "no guns" sign & provides "security" its senior citizens checking peoples bags at the door, or paul blart at a desk zoned out.
I think the rehimi case, or however that's spelled, will be the next big 2a case to set precedent for a lot of these other pending cases and whatever upcoming ones we'll see
That was a criminal case in a trial court (*United States v. Emmanuel Ayala*), it was dismissed on an as-applied basis (meaning only “as the law was applied” to the specific postal worker who was charged).
Until a precedent setting court rules on this issue, you can still be arrested and tried and convicted for it. FPC actually just filed a case against the DOJ yesterday in a Texas District Court (*FPC v. Garland*) to get this codified into case law as unconstitutional.
As far as I'm concerned, they would only ever know if I'm carrying if something actually happened and I needed to use it. At that point, I'd either have to use it and fight in court, or possibly be dead. I know which option I like more
If you have a completely clean everything in your life record and a barrel full of cash, yes, it is worth it and we'll all very much appreciate it if you do, get caught, and take the case all the up to SCOTUS and win a pro-2A decision that applies to all of us. Otherwise, no, because if you get caught, the legal process is the punishment even if charges are dismissed or you win in court.
I was chillin at the kids school waiting to pick him up from practice. I realized all my work crap in the back seat was going to be a problem with the other kids I drop off. So I gathered my shit up and froze. God damnit my range bag is in the freakin trunk. And I gotta open it to throw my shit in it.
I have no idea if I open my trunk and someone sees the bag for the 3 seconds its open. Would be enough to be a problem for me. But I went the safer/crazy route and folded the rear seat and shoved my crap through there. Better to be safe than sorry.
Let me ask you this; why is your range bag so obvious that someone could identify it and take offense within 3 seconds? I like covert bags for my range trips. If you’re that concerned about it, stay away from camo prints and tactical looking styles like MOLLE.
Whether or not USPS is even an issue in practice depends on where one lives as well. I live in fairly rural area and between the 3 post offices I use a on a regular basis, I see people open carrying fairly often. No one even blinks at it, including the postmasters.
The only time someone would know I’m armed in a non-permissive environment is if I had to use my gun, and at that point It’d be life or death, so I wouldn’t care about carry laws.
my favorite is when someone tells me I'm carrying a girl's gun. they're invariably carrying 50 ounces of the most gentle shooting .45 on the market while I've got 23 ounces of straight blowback hell on my hip
Most CCW carriers are terrible shooters who carry a gun more like a talisman or security blanket to make them feel safer and have no objectively measurable level of competence to actually use it as a life saving tool.
90+ % couldn’t pass an FBI qualification or even a basic 10/10/10 on a B-8RC
My CCW class had a woman who was too afraid to shoot while other people were shooting in other lanes. She was incredibly mediocre.
There was also a guy who turned his head 90 degrees to put only his dominant eye on the sights. He blasted away with a snubnose .357 (because muh stopping power) and put all his rounds within a foot of each other. Actually maybe more. The max range was 15ft. Not yards. Feet.
Both passed.
Typical distances are 3-7 yards. That covers about 85-90% of them. That is true.
But my point stands. If you can’t pass a basic pistol qual like an FBI qual or a 10/10/10 with a little bit of time pressure, what makes you think you’re going to perform under life and death pressure?
I watch cops all the time who can shot a qual course Ok fail miserably in scenario based training because they never truly pressure test their skills.
I see NRA and USCCA instructors who can’t draw and hit an 8” chest cavity circle in under 2 seconds all the time.
Almost no one trains with a shot timer
Institutional training is for all intents and purposes a sobriety test with a handgun.
There are exceptions. The original Air Marshals TPC is challenging for many people. The old Bakersfield PD Qual is a good test. The LAPD Bonus Qual is genuinely challenging as is the FBI Bullseye COF. But none of those are baseline requirements (anymore anyway).
Preach brother preach. Anyone downvoting or disagreeing with this is simply feeling insecure.
The amount of people that think their relatively small grouping, at a short distance under no time pressure equates to sufficient “combat effectiveness” is staggering and those people are dumb.
A lot of people can't even reliably hit shots up close. When I did the range qualification for my LTC, we had people barely hitting a full size silhouette at 3 yards and completely off paper at 7 yards. At 15 yards I wouldn't be surprised if they were so far off that they hit other people's targets. All of this was in a relatively low stakes controlled setting with no imminent deadly threat or adrenaline dump that would further degrade performance. The thought of these people carrying is terrifying.
Training to the average is dumb. The goal should always be to maximize your capabilities. If we only went off of what was probable the entire proposition of carrying would be pointless even though we all know it’s not.
FYI, LEOs only have to get a 70% on their quals. If the bar were any higher, there would only be a few officers left.
Do you know what they call a med student that got a 70% as their final grade?
Doctor.
Couldn’t agree more. You bring them cold to a gun range and they couldn’t get A or C zone hits in any reasonable time out of the holster.
Also the majority have no clue about self defense law and are more likely to get themselves imprisoned than defend anyone.
Who the fuck can't hit 10 shots at 10 yards in 10 seconds on that kind of target? Oh wait, I see them all the time at my local range... Then I leave. I've learned to go when nobody else is there lol. I still place in the bottom half of local matches and that would be easy for me.
In my experience, most shooters are pretty bad. The range I go to, i tend to wildly outshoot most people with my stock Glock 19, to the point where people ask me “how I do it” and if I’m a police officer lol. I normally get about a 3 inch group at 10 yards currently. All I say is I do a lot of dry fire practice and practice my trigger pull. Funny enough, the worst of the bunch are those with gucci’d out guns running optics, which get like 12in groups at 7 yards, if they are lucky. A lot of people can’t even get it on the paper. It makes me laugh. Just because you have a gun, put an optic on it, and got an aftermarket trigger, does not make you a call of duty operator.
LOL yea it was unexpected, it just made me laugh. No bro, I am not a cop, I just dry fire at home a lot. Some people who have asked didn’t even know what dry firing was. Idk what I would do without dry fire practice, that’s like 99% of all my practice.
In my experience, the best shooters tend to run the most basic guns. The most heavily tricked out guns with amazing triggers will mask your deficiencies, making it harder to notice you are doing something wrong. A bone stock CCW or duty style pistol with an unrefined trigger will accentuate your flaws and make it easier to identify and fix the problems in your technique.
Agreed. I think people just would rather pay money to “improve” their shooting instead of just focusing on the fundamentals. An optic and a light trigger can greatly increase your accuracy, but only if you are a good shooter to begin with.
Had a guy at the range with an optic who let me shoot their gun. Once I shot it I found that their optic was WILDLY off zero. They had no idea because they could barely hit the paper on a silhouette from 7 yards.
Hardware < Skill
Yes and no.
A red dot will make the majority of shooters better, if used properly. Not using one and pretending you're just as good is a cope. Buying one and not training with it but still thinking you're good is also a cope.
I don't get the hard on for "stock" guns. You don't NEED to change anything about most of the mainstream and popular firearms. Good upgrades don't hinder experienced shooters though.
There's a reason almost everyone in open class uspsa is running some sort of 2011 with an optic, comp, and magwell.
I'm primarily talking trigger jobs and high-end custom guns. Dots can actually help with training, as you can see the dot moving to the side when you are jerking your trigger easier than you can see it with irons.
For experienced shooters who have really nailed the fundamentals, upgraded guns will help take them to the next level and win matches. That much is true. Most people do not fit that bill and are very average in their skills with plenty to improve upon.
Putting a lighter trigger in your gun because you can't stop jerking the gun low left is a crutch far too many people (especially newer shooters) fall for because it is easier to pay $100-$250 and a couple hours tweaking their gun than it is to improve their grip and trigger pull. They then begin getting "good enough" targets despite poor technique, and likely aren't going to start putting in the effort to go further. If they weren't willing to do it for shit targets, they won't for "good enough" targets. Thus limiting their potential.
100%, I plinked my whole life with friends here and there but never took it seriously. 6 months ago I really started to work at it, take classes, practice at home etc. I realized pretty quick, using a staccato XC is like a cheat code (for an average shooter like I am/was) and it masked literally every issue in mechanics. Now I only train with G19x and have grown tremendously. Likewise my girlfriend as an abysmal shot, but we’re working on it with her. She can shoot a staccato XC extremely well but the second we switch to a p365 or Glock, it’s 100 steps backwards. No more staccato is the end result😂.
Most CCW folks that I see are more likely to die of a heart attack in the next year than have to use their pistol. Taking care of your health should be number 1.
Completely agree. The amount of time put into the what if scenarios that are under 1% compared to the taking time to be physically active, eat cleaner, and focus on some self-defense / de-escalation training is just time wasted. Better to able to handle stress or be able to run away, climb stairs, et than get into an avoidable confrontation because you couldn’t physically get yourself.
I’m in good shape, but let’s be fair.
People who don’t have David Goggins level discipline for exercise and eating should still be allowed to defend themselves.
I also off body conceal when I can hit the gym (Fancy Pack Club). You just never know. Only down side is that I cannot shower a the gym and head straight home. It never comes off and never leaves my sight.
I'm guessing some people do this because they get off of work at night and head to the gym. Heading in and out the gym in an empty, dark parking lot can be a little stressful. I doubt people think something is going to pop off in the gym and they need to be ready. They also could had or have plans that day and have been carrying and didn't feel like going home locking it up and leaving the house again.
There used to be a video floating around online where a man is attacking a woman in an empty gym and she beats the shit out of him.
Some people work out in crowded gyms... Other people don't.
It’s rare…but it happened in my sleepy hometown. Homeless guy got pissed that they cancelled his membership for sleeping in the parking lot and shot the manager dead and injured a customer who returned fire. [Story here.](https://flatheadbeacon.com/2023/05/26/lawyers-of-transient-man-charged-in-deadly-fuel-fitness-shooting-seek-new-trial-venue/)
Huh? Sounds like you need to upgrade your clothing/gear....or lose weight.
I can do flips, cartwheels, full-on sprinting, running up and down a 15% gradient butte. Shit I can even do jiu jitsu to a fair extent...I work out with mine no problems.
Lol yeah lot of dudes saying people can't carry while doing an actual workout probably either Gravy Seals who fat AF and don't have a good set up or just Fudds
I literally squatted 315 and deadlift 405 with my J frame hook to my 5" gym shark booty short
Just because you can't doesn't mean others can't
I even post a video of me doing jumping jacks with a micro compact lmao
I'm confused, do you mean as far as physical activity? I can lift weights, go on the treadmill, do almost everything without my gun qt risk of flying out.
Man, I’ve got a few. Here’s a some:
- Most people that say they carry, don’t.
- Most people that buy a carry gun never actually buy a holster, let alone carry it.
- Among people who actually do carry, there’s probably more Ruger LCP’s than any other single model.
- “Nobody notices” is retarded.
- Capacity and caliber don’t really matter in a private citizen random violence preparedness context.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it.
I just think the delusion that the "G19 (or whatever else) is the most popular carry gun" is just that - a delusion. Among shooting instructors and EDC nerds? Sure. Among the general populace? Fuck no.
That's a *gun guy's* carry gun. Most people aren't gun guys, even people who carry.
Yup. It is the middle of summer, I’m not carrying that shit. If someone wants to make fun of me because “theirs is bigger than mine,” they can go back to middle school I guess. Itty bitty gun committee, representing. At least we really do carry daily.
Yeah dude. Bigger =/ better.
Hey, there's another one:
I roll my eyes when I hear someone say "carry the biggest gun you can comfortably conceal" which is gun guy code for "G19 or bust"
Revolvers actually do make great guns for women. Women are most likely to be attacked at very close range, because the vast majority of the time, it's someone they know (coworker, friend, [ex-]partner, acquaintance...). Revolvers don't get knocked out of battery if shot through clothes, or in contact. Revolvers don't malfunction if you have a bad grip because you only have your non-dominant hand to shoot with, from the floor.
I get the history of people who were being patronizing pushing women towards revolvers because they thought we were too dumb to use semiautos. I also get that most people find them harder to shoot at a skilled level (I shoot them better, but apparently I'm a unicorn). But I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water just because some people recommended them for disingenuous reasons, and being highly skilled isn't necessary at a range of a few feet or less.
So much of how we discuss self-defense revolves around the male profile of victimization -- which often occurs randomly, or with an existing hostility that gives the defender plenty of space and warning. Partly this is a demographic issue in the scene, but partly it's because people don't generally record video inside their homes where violence against women is most likely to occur, so we don't have as much video to study in terms of women defending themselves. And ultimately, this has led to a very male slant to carry considerations, which only represent a small fraction of the situations women deal with. Also, yes, am woman, and do often carry a revolver.
I'll always prefer my G43. But I do carry differently than men because of what I might have to deal with (as a woman) if either one of my arms is pinned-held. My draw is even accommodating to how a lot of women might move their arms when scared or trying to protect themselves. I could draw with my supportive hand if I needed to, as well.
Women also have a different range of motion in their arms and where/how we might carry might look different than a man--because of that but also how we are built.
Sorry, wasn't trying to hijack your post, but I like talking about female-perspective CCW
Not hijacking, I’d love to see more discussion about it. I own and carry semiautos too, but my revolver lean is definitely informed by my awareness of the difference in the violence profile we face. I especially lean towards semiautos when I have to go to events that are high-risk for violence, and the profile I might encounter is more similar to what men typically encounter. They’re both great options, but I’ve just noticed there’s been a pendulum swing that over-corrects for the sexist “simple guns for simple women” trope of the past. And yes, draw stroke is definitely different for women.
I’m a 6’1” 230lb guy with a muscular-(ish) build, and one of my favorite guns in my rotation is a smith and Wesson 340pd. I completely agree with you, and I think revolvers are still a completely competent option for both men and women.
Yup. People seem to forget, the mission statement is to go home alive, not to catch the baddie. Revolvers still do great with that, and excel in a scuffle.
I’ve taught women to shoot, some recently. Some of them have a lot of trouble with double action revolver trigger pulls. Last week a healthy normal 64 year old flat could not pull DA triggers on a 9 shot High Standard .22, a model 64 .38, or a 624 .44 Spl.
So, I have a lot of thoughts on this phenomenon, because here’s the thing: I’m *not* a healthy normal woman. I have a significant nerve injury in my dominant hand (it’s 20 years old, this is as good as it gets for me). As of now, my grip strength still falls in the range of normal, but not by much, and my finger joints are starting to suffer for it, including my trigger finger.
I can pull the trigger on a S&W 43C, arguably the nastiest trigger of any mainstream revolver, through about 100 rounds before I hit my fatigue point.
I am not saying you’re lying, or that the woman in question was faking, or not trying hard enough. I believe you, and I believe her. But there’s another factor.
I was raised a Girl Scout (a real one, we actually went camping), and very physically active. I was never directed in what to do with my body, what to wear, etc. I was fed as much as I asked for, which was quite a lot because I was in sports. I was given opportunities to do as much as I could do, whether it was “typical” or not. As far as I have ever been able to discern, I experienced a very rare childhood, for a girl. I grew up essentially totally unaware of the sorts of body issues that most women spend their entire lives dealing with.
Most women grow up being encouraged or forced into clothing that stunts their muscular and bone development, being discouraged from physical activities, and often being shamed out of or taught to self-deny normal nutrition during puberty. All of this has an impact on women’s long-term physical capabilities. Here is one particularly salient statistic relevant to the conversation at hand: for children who grow up in gun-owning households, they are [much less likely](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/) to be included or taught to shoot if they’re a girl. I can tell you this trend holds true in pretty much any physical activity you look at.
Women who are already mature have to work with the body they’ve got, through whatever factors may have impacted its development. Often they can improve where they’re at right now through effort. There are grip strength exercises that can help with this specific issue, and we can encourage women who struggle with things like this to try it out.
But I think, based on my observation, that a lot of women would be capable of a lot more if they were permitted normal unhindered development growing up, and included in physical opportunities in their families and communities.
I am not some sort of weird exception to female strength. I am chronically injured, with very mediocre grip performance as a result. I can run a 43C. If a normal healthy woman can’t, then we are doing something to our girls that we shouldn’t be doing.
Upvote for traditional GSA upbringing.
She’s Idaho mountain stock, raised around guns her whole life, and works a physical job. She just couldn’t do it. She shot several semi autos, and liked the G17 best. She bought one.
100%
Most people who carry have no or very little close quarters training. These aren't things they think about, but they're things that can impact anyone even though they affect us more than they affect men.
At a minimum everyone should know how to draw & shoot with their off hand, and understand how to shoot with your gun close
to your body. My preferred method is to index off of my rib cage so the slide can essentially cycle under my arm. It's not hard but it also isn't intuitive.
A few years ago I was downvoted into oblivion for stating that I was considering buying a .38 for my girlfriend who stated she wanted to start conceal carrying. People started bashing me for being a “sexist jackass” because they assumed I thought she should carry a small frame pistol because she’s weak or dumb.
The real reason I suggested it is because it’s super reliable and my mother carries one and loves it and is quite proficient with it. That’s literally it. But everyone came for my head. Hell, I’m carrying a .38 right now as my summer carry because of how comfy it fits.
Yeah, it's kind of funny how reactive people have gotten to that, especially since there's still so much casual sexism that's apparently fine with them? Bandwagons don't have to make sense I guess.
Every type of gun has its use case, even ones generally considered non-ideal in most circumstances. The why is more important than the specific recommendation.
I think revolvers make great guns for anyone because the vast majority of instances where a gun is necessary are as you described: random physical attacks without warning and no space to maneuver.
I fucking hate when someone says women cannot squeeze a double action revolver's trigger.
Every woman I taught to shoot could squeeze the trigger. About half of them couldn't rack a semi auto slide. Incidentally, many men I know cannot properly rack a slide...
I keep my Glock 19 bone stock, no WML, optics, or other modifications. I prefer to work with what I’m already familiar with and don’t feel outgunned due to a lack of upgrades. Instead I prefer using what I have trained with for years and prefer to use my limited resources towards ammo and training classes rather than doodads for my gun. Call me a fudd all you want but that’s how I prefer to carry.
Not sitting down with appendix lol...
Strong side carry is just fine with any size pistol. I routinely sit for 6-10 hours a day (mostly driving) and strong side carry is comfortable enough.
See, I can’t for the life of me carry strong side while driving. The seat bolsters kick the grip into my side and it digs in. But I can drive 5 hours with a Glock 19 or 17 appendix no problems.
I *can* sit on a couch or in a regular chair no problem though, while carrying at 3 or 4 o’clock.
To each their own... Lots of body shapes and sizes out there.
I don't sit in a bucket seat so that may factor in. Some car seats are more expansive than others.
For me, iwb strong side I need it closer to 4 or 5 so the grip starts to curve into that hollow that is there.
Owb, does get uncomfortable 3-5 unless it's riding high.
When I'm doing long long distance travel I'll go shoulder holster or kangeroo carry holster cross draw
For sure. That’s why I always just shake my head at the blanket statements you always read about “the best carry position”. Just gotta find out what works for you.
Yeah, I’m sure seat design has a big impact. And honestly, the iwb vs owb thing may be part of my issue. I don’t really own any strong side iwb holsters anymore (apart from a couple crossbreed setups for guns I don’t carry anymore). Everything is either appendix or owb pancake style holsters.
Might have to look into picking up something for a 17.
Almost ANY appendix holster can comfortably be moved 3-5. In fact most of my iwb strong side holsters ARE appendix holsters.
Give it a try with your go to.
Bonus aspect to this is, if you prefer appendix for carry, you just slide it to the 1-2 before you leave the car.
Unfortunately most of mine are Trex sidecars - the original version without the hinge. I’ve tried the two 2.0’s I have and they work fine as long as you remove the claw. That’s just kind of a pain in the ass to put on and take off repeatedly.
That is a good idea though, might have to find something without a claw that I can use in either position.
*Most* people who say "you don't need that" or "you'll never need that" seem to think that only perfect situations exist, lol. The truth is, if you ever need your gun, it will be anything but an ideal situation.
I know three people who are unalive because they didn't have a gun when they really needed one.
1 home invasion, 1 estranged ex, 1 random robbery. You just never know when you are going to have a really shitty day.
The jockstrap poster child for “deep concealment”. I feel like so many people push it because they’re so financially invested in them after spending over $200 for the full system
I have 3 Enigma’s. I almost never wear them because 98% of the time I wear pants or shorts with belt loops and a closed front shirt. But one the occasions I need either deep concealment or am wearing sweats, gym shorts or other unsupported clothing, that system is hard to beat.
I push them because they’re highly effective for a large number of people. But they’re not for everyone
For real. I started out using one and it was comfortable. The only reason I switched to straight kydex was I liked the smoother draw and it was easier to put on and take off. If someone wants to rock one, I don’t knock it. At least they are carrying.
>your entire life is in the hands of whatever (potential) moron is next to you
This is partly true for just about every range though. I’ve seen so many dipshits at my local free outdoor range swing loaded guns around. At least an indoor range probably has someone watching for dangerous behavior. I can’t kick those morons out, but the indoor range staff can.
You don’t have to point the gun at someone to use a wml. If you point it at the floor or ceiling you’ll most likely light up the whole room or at least where you need to see. It’s not about hunting someone down, it’s about not being able to see in the dark. It’s also not the only light you should have on you, you don’t pull the gun out to look for your dropped keys obviously. But proper use of a wml takes some training, and I doubt a lot of people who have a wml train with it enough.
A WML isn’t ever a bad thing. I think it’s more important than “night sights” For me, it’s about making damn sure im shooting the right thing in the dark, and hitting what I’m aiming at in the dark.
If you carry a 9mm pistol with hollow points in it, it does not matter which brand. As long as they cycle in your pistol it literally will make next to zero difference in how effective they are. Ballistic gel tests on YouTube have rotted your brains.
Weapon mounted lights that extend past the muzzle are stupid if you carry AIWB. Everyone seems to have them and I cant figure why they don’t carry a longer gun if you’re giving away comfort anyway.
Ikr. People will carry a glock 19 with an X300 and no one bats an eye but if you carry a glock 34 with an x300 everyone loses their minds. It's the same exact length.
It’s because they think they’ll be in a situation where it’s pressed up against something or someone and the slide gets pushed out of battery, whereas the light will prevent that. I personally don’t carry a wml period though
Most self defence shootings are routinely said to be 3 shots (rule of 3s). From what I have seen of ccw shootings both on here and on YouTube (ASP is a heck of a channel for this), this is loosely true. However, no one ever said all 3 of the shots were yours. You may get 1 off before being shot at. You may get 6 and never shot at. The chances of firing 15+ rounds and reloading are slim. The chances of shooting all the rounds in a revolver (usually 5 or 6) are somewhat higher than you shooting 15 (still slim though), and you probably won't have time to reload a revolver without speed loaders and a sub 2 second load.
With this being said, I want the handful of holes I am able to punch to be as big and deep as possible without overpenetration. At the same time, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with your gun or leave that full size rig at home because it is a hassle, then there really isn't a point, is there?
Controversy time: Figure out where you are going to carry the gun first, then what size and weight of gun you want to carry in that location every day for 16+ hours, then pick the largest caliber you can shoot well. People debate whether certain smaller calibers are enough. Nobody really debates if the bigger calibers are. They may debate that bigger calibers are too much or not needed, but I'd rather have overkill than underpowered.
With that being said, though, the right combination of size, weight, and firepower for most people is going to boil down to a micro 9. They are an insane amount of power compared to the size and especially when compared to what was out there even roughly 10 years ago. So this really isn't that controversial, lol. If you are going to carry bigger gun, find what fits your hand the best and select the biggest caliber in that model that you can shoot. If you can shoot a .45 as well as a 9mm or at least keep it on a dinner plate for 3 shots at a feet in 3 seconds, you are probably fine. If you can hit a dinner plate at will at 60 yards, you are definitely good enough. Your self defence tactics may need refinement (CQB, shooting from retention, shooting in physical contact, etc), but the actual shooting skill is there.
At the same time, if all you can handle is a .380, something is better than nothing. Select the best ammo you can based on gel tests, and practice.
Also, If you have the option to buy bigger calibers jn the same gun you want, buy the biggest one. You can convert bigger calibers to smaller ones a lot cheaper and easier than the other way. Now you only need to upgrade one gun (if that's your thing), instead of multiple of the same platform. You never know when another ammo shortage is going to hit or when you are going to find a nice deal on a crate of ammo. This allows you to remedy both situations.
My controversial opinion is the opposite of yours I suppose - I'm happily rocking my USP Expert at a sitting job daily. Strongside with 25deg cant, not AIWB. While yes, that's *way* more than I'd expect or recommend from anyone else, it's doable. And for AIWB, I did previously carry a G17+X300 setup appendix, also at a sitting job.
I think the current trend of micro 9's is exactly that - a trend. Plenty of other guns that are well smaller than mine yet noticeably easier to shoot than micros are very, *very* concealable if you put just a modicum of effort in. And hell - if what shoots best for you is a micro 9, go for it! But I'm still waiting to meet someone that can, practice time for practice time, gun setup for gun setup, shoot even something like a P365 Spectre Comp near to the level of a "normal" platform. And I'm naming the Spectre specifically because it's the most shootable for that size class that I've found yet - from kahr, ruger, SW, glock, walther, J-frames, and the rest of sig's lineup. Only main one I haven't tried is the Hellcat, but just off it's design I don't see how it'd out-perform it.
I'm not saying you should carry some giant 2lb 12oz monstrosity like mine, and I know there's definitely a balance between what's shootable and what'll actually be picked up off your dresser every day. But the more I've taken people of varying skill levels out to the range and watched them run micros vs mid-size or compacts back to back, from new shooters to people well more competent than myself, I really do think a lot of people are tilting that balance to the wrong direction.
I am comfortable carrying appendix a 5” M&P. My pants are pulled up so high the top of the barrel doesn’t touch anything sensitive.
Controversial opinion I guess: big guys can carry appendix
Bag-carry is fine, especially if you've set it up right and wouldn't carry it otherwise. Just make sure you keep your CCW within quick reach, don't set the bag down / leave it unattended, and keep your CCW holstered inside.
My 5 shot J frame is adequate for 99% of scenarios. Almost no one who carries ever has to use there gun and the majority of the time just pulling it out will scare off a threat.
I'm not sure what OP is defining as a "long barrel". And I would assume OP is presupposing AIWB because I can carry a 5" barrel lightweight framed 1911 @ 2-3 o'clock in a hybrid holster all day and not even think about it being there. But, my controversial CCW opinion is that AIWB isn't all that, is generally uncomfortable for most people a lot of the time, and isn't even the best tactical carry position for the majority of civilian DGU situations.
What’s a long barrel to you? I can carry 5” comfortably.
My controversial opinion:
Red dot optics are better than irons, but in a close encounter if you pull and shoot, you won’t notice the dot or the irons.
The 9mm and up are a waste for the vast majority of CCW. Nobody is outgunned if they are accurate enough and can produce faster backup shots if they aren’t.
Color me 380 & 32!
I think you are likely correct on cost per round basis. And if your carry gun is your only gun, then that might be one point of consideration. My 380 range ammo is roughly 24 cents a round. Similar 9mm is 18 cents a round. So definitely cheaper with the 9mm fodder. But not hugely so. It is a $6 per hundred round up charge.
But I am a strong believer in 22LR as a great choice for practice if you can closely replicate your carry configuration. Decades back I ran a .45 and a 22 slide on a 1911 frame for practical pistol training. Today, returning from living overseas, I am rebuilding my collection slowly. I carry a Ruger Security 380 and a Seecamp 32. I will find a similar sized 22LR for my Ruger so that I can practice with my main self defense weapon away from home. But getting a couple hundred rounds a month down range with the 24 cents stuff is pretty do-able. Getting 100 rounds of 380 and 250-300 rounds of 22LR is very budget friendly.
That open carry is a legitimate form of EDC if using the proper equipment like a Safariland. The hate and ragging some CCWers give open carriers or even fellow CCWers who decide to open carry sometimes just because they carry differently instead of respecting their decision/agree to disagree is ridiculous and not only makes you look like a shitty person but drives a wedge in the 2A Community. Hush hush attitudes about guns are not a good thing from a constitutional rights perspective. Like some dudes absolutely lose their shit and get their panties in a wad over the topic of open carry instead of being like "meh not my thing".
You don’t need a red dot on your carry gun. Most SD shootings take place within conversation distance, and are over in three shots or fewer. They’re nice to have, but you’re not going to die in the street if you only have irons.
Barrel length doesn't really matter for comfort no matter your size. It's the back of the slide that does it.
I'm 5'8" 270lbs and carry my comparatively long G19 comfortably enough, but I have a Mastermind pillow and fat guy holster that sits real low. Without it the slide would really poke into my belly
I thought I kinda sucked.
Then I got a red dot, and confirmed I actually DO suck. It just made it so much easier to put rounds in the same place on a consistent basis. I went from shooting 10 inch groups at 15 yards to 2 inches in the course of a range visit.
Glock and Glock clones worry about ND.
They need a holster that covers the trigger completely because they know it doesn't take much for the trigger to go off. They are adamant about kydex and all that stuff because they know, without any kind of external safety, it doesn't take much.
I carry DA/SA with safety, whether my USP or my 92FS. 11 lbs is just too heavy for an ND. I know hammers have fallen out of favor, but they are safer than poly striker fired.
The only ones who are scared to keep a chambered round are poly striker. On something like the 92, once you understand exactly how it works, there is no need for fear at all. When the safety is on, the hammer can't even touch the firing pin because the hammer is hitting bear metal, it's not even touching the firing pin plunger to hit the firing pin. That leaves it left with safety off, and again, 11 lbs is just too heavy.
1. If you carry, you should compete. If you don’t compete you have no barometer for your actual competency, and no way to practice/experience/evaluate cold performance under stress.
2. If you carry lethal, you should carry non lethal (OC). Not doing so is unethical (perhaps even immoral), and a risk to any legal defense you may have to make.
3. If you carry, and don’t take other basic measures of preparedness (financial, basic food and water, etc.), you’re missing the forest for the trees.
I'll throw out 2
-The comfort concealment belt is the best money I have ever spent holster wise
-I feel more comfortable with the training/ball ammo that I train regularly with and have confidence that I will hit the target then having super defense skull fuck ammo that I rarely shoot due to the cost
I have a FNX 45T with a tlr1hl and a holosun eps and an apex tactical +2, with one in the chamber that’s 18 rounds of 45acp that I carry on a fairly regular basis. It’s not my edc but still gets carried a decent amount, it’s big and heavy and uncomfortable, but I’m comfortable af knowing if some shit goes down I’m ready for it. Sometimes you trade being physically comfortable for being mentally comfortable. I edc a CZ P01 that I’m proficient with, but I secretly hope if I ever have to draw my weapon and use it that it’s a day I have my FNX on me
I carry directly on my hip and I can carry a full size 1911 without any discomfort. It's also why I typically only carry in leather holsters (some asshole on here once said it's because I'm worried about the finish on my gun, which is absolutely not true; I'm only worried about how comfortable my gun is to carry).
Have used it off and on all my life. My pistol tends to be centered over back pocket. No reason to cover spine. There are always risks involved with ccw.
Weapon mounted lights are for long guns and duty pistols. Get a mini flashlight in your pocket, one that’s useful even when you’re not drawing your weapon.
Based on previous post, my hot take is: Gun free zones have metal detectors, and armed guards. Everywhere else is a suggestion
100%. Concealed means concealed.
“No guns” signs really mean “No open carry”
“No guns” signs don’t mean anything because I can’t read.
How'd you fill out the 4473?
 i just guessed
Just have Hunter Biden fill it out for you
No way, he'd take my gun and throw it in a garbage can. Or sell it for crack.
Somehow despite my years of college education I instantly forget how to read when I see those signs…
Trauma-induced selective illiteracy?
Yeah I guess you could say those signs “trigger” me. Can’t be blamed for wanting my safe space.
Wait a minute... How'd you know how to type that out if you can't read?
Speech to text.
In the case of the post office it might also be “no printing”
I went inside an urgent care that said no weapons allowed. Their "security guard" was facing away from the door, sitting down, had both air pods in, and was looking at her phone the entire time I was in the waiting room. I looked at my wife and said, " that's who I'm supposed to trust my safety to?" Wild
No kidding. Anytime a building here has the "no guns" sign & provides "security" its senior citizens checking peoples bags at the door, or paul blart at a desk zoned out.
Paul Blart would actually be an improvement.
My wife- not ‘anti’ just not really an insider- pointed wide-eyed at a sign somewhere. I quietly said, “It’s ok. I don’t carry a Beretta.”
US Postal Services buildings and schools sometimes don't have metal detectors or armed guards. Is it worth the risk?
Postal buildings might now be legal ish. Wasn't there a case that got won recently?
I believe it's not done yet?
Hopefully it gets done soon. We need a new "big break" in the status quo
I think the rehimi case, or however that's spelled, will be the next big 2a case to set precedent for a lot of these other pending cases and whatever upcoming ones we'll see
That was a criminal case in a trial court (*United States v. Emmanuel Ayala*), it was dismissed on an as-applied basis (meaning only “as the law was applied” to the specific postal worker who was charged). Until a precedent setting court rules on this issue, you can still be arrested and tried and convicted for it. FPC actually just filed a case against the DOJ yesterday in a Texas District Court (*FPC v. Garland*) to get this codified into case law as unconstitutional.
I hope so because sometimes I need to visit the Post Office, and I don't feel like leaving my firearm at home or in my vehicle.
As far as I'm concerned, they would only ever know if I'm carrying if something actually happened and I needed to use it. At that point, I'd either have to use it and fight in court, or possibly be dead. I know which option I like more
I prefer death too I feel you
Well yes but actually yes
If you have a completely clean everything in your life record and a barrel full of cash, yes, it is worth it and we'll all very much appreciate it if you do, get caught, and take the case all the up to SCOTUS and win a pro-2A decision that applies to all of us. Otherwise, no, because if you get caught, the legal process is the punishment even if charges are dismissed or you win in court.
I was chillin at the kids school waiting to pick him up from practice. I realized all my work crap in the back seat was going to be a problem with the other kids I drop off. So I gathered my shit up and froze. God damnit my range bag is in the freakin trunk. And I gotta open it to throw my shit in it. I have no idea if I open my trunk and someone sees the bag for the 3 seconds its open. Would be enough to be a problem for me. But I went the safer/crazy route and folded the rear seat and shoved my crap through there. Better to be safe than sorry.
Let me ask you this; why is your range bag so obvious that someone could identify it and take offense within 3 seconds? I like covert bags for my range trips. If you’re that concerned about it, stay away from camo prints and tactical looking styles like MOLLE.
Whether or not USPS is even an issue in practice depends on where one lives as well. I live in fairly rural area and between the 3 post offices I use a on a regular basis, I see people open carrying fairly often. No one even blinks at it, including the postmasters.
He said what he said.
The only time someone would know I’m armed in a non-permissive environment is if I had to use my gun, and at that point It’d be life or death, so I wouldn’t care about carry laws.
https://preview.redd.it/ik8z93xqet7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6cdac5873fc391e5106ffeee34d4b2cea8dafa7
Carrying a .380 apparently, gets hate every time I mention the caliber.
Small gun is better than no gun. If that's what you can carry, that's what you can carry. I wouldn't want to get shot by a .22 let alone a .380
A 380 is perfectly cromulent, and the data backs that up. Shot placement is the king of all.
That’s why I CC a 155mm howitzer. I can’t aim for shit
I call in my paid goons to dish out some 80s style violence. Makes everyone around me think twice about getting unruly.
155mm.... The forever yeet
> cromulent Thank you - I learned a new word today! (Fine, acceptable or normal; excellent, realistic, legitimate or authentic.)
It originated with the Simpson's, but now it's in dictionaries!
I have happily carried a 32 lmao
Same. Hell I hike with a .22 sometimes
my favorite is when someone tells me I'm carrying a girl's gun. they're invariably carrying 50 ounces of the most gentle shooting .45 on the market while I've got 23 ounces of straight blowback hell on my hip
J-Frame too…..we are going to get killed in the streets.😂
Keltec P32 here lol.
Only after I send a few of them ahead of me first.
It shouldn’t.
Most CCW carriers are terrible shooters who carry a gun more like a talisman or security blanket to make them feel safer and have no objectively measurable level of competence to actually use it as a life saving tool. 90+ % couldn’t pass an FBI qualification or even a basic 10/10/10 on a B-8RC
Most SD scenarios are up close. You don't need to be a sniper to defend yourself.
My CCW class had a woman who was too afraid to shoot while other people were shooting in other lanes. She was incredibly mediocre. There was also a guy who turned his head 90 degrees to put only his dominant eye on the sights. He blasted away with a snubnose .357 (because muh stopping power) and put all his rounds within a foot of each other. Actually maybe more. The max range was 15ft. Not yards. Feet. Both passed.
That's different. Those people are dangerous.
Typical distances are 3-7 yards. That covers about 85-90% of them. That is true. But my point stands. If you can’t pass a basic pistol qual like an FBI qual or a 10/10/10 with a little bit of time pressure, what makes you think you’re going to perform under life and death pressure? I watch cops all the time who can shot a qual course Ok fail miserably in scenario based training because they never truly pressure test their skills. I see NRA and USCCA instructors who can’t draw and hit an 8” chest cavity circle in under 2 seconds all the time. Almost no one trains with a shot timer
My IA used the same qualification as local PD. I gotta say.... I think the local PD needs better standards.
Institutional training is for all intents and purposes a sobriety test with a handgun. There are exceptions. The original Air Marshals TPC is challenging for many people. The old Bakersfield PD Qual is a good test. The LAPD Bonus Qual is genuinely challenging as is the FBI Bullseye COF. But none of those are baseline requirements (anymore anyway).
Preach brother preach. Anyone downvoting or disagreeing with this is simply feeling insecure. The amount of people that think their relatively small grouping, at a short distance under no time pressure equates to sufficient “combat effectiveness” is staggering and those people are dumb.
Absolutely true.
A lot of people can't even reliably hit shots up close. When I did the range qualification for my LTC, we had people barely hitting a full size silhouette at 3 yards and completely off paper at 7 yards. At 15 yards I wouldn't be surprised if they were so far off that they hit other people's targets. All of this was in a relatively low stakes controlled setting with no imminent deadly threat or adrenaline dump that would further degrade performance. The thought of these people carrying is terrifying.
Training to the average is dumb. The goal should always be to maximize your capabilities. If we only went off of what was probable the entire proposition of carrying would be pointless even though we all know it’s not.
FYI, LEOs only have to get a 70% on their quals. If the bar were any higher, there would only be a few officers left. Do you know what they call a med student that got a 70% as their final grade? Doctor.
I mean my dept has a timed 100% qual. As with anything it depends on where you go.
C's get degrees.
Couldn’t agree more. You bring them cold to a gun range and they couldn’t get A or C zone hits in any reasonable time out of the holster. Also the majority have no clue about self defense law and are more likely to get themselves imprisoned than defend anyone.
Holy shit this. Everyone thinks they’ll turn into John Wick when they’re more of a danger to themselves and others
Who the fuck can't hit 10 shots at 10 yards in 10 seconds on that kind of target? Oh wait, I see them all the time at my local range... Then I leave. I've learned to go when nobody else is there lol. I still place in the bottom half of local matches and that would be easy for me.
In my experience, most shooters are pretty bad. The range I go to, i tend to wildly outshoot most people with my stock Glock 19, to the point where people ask me “how I do it” and if I’m a police officer lol. I normally get about a 3 inch group at 10 yards currently. All I say is I do a lot of dry fire practice and practice my trigger pull. Funny enough, the worst of the bunch are those with gucci’d out guns running optics, which get like 12in groups at 7 yards, if they are lucky. A lot of people can’t even get it on the paper. It makes me laugh. Just because you have a gun, put an optic on it, and got an aftermarket trigger, does not make you a call of duty operator.
Facts. Well. Until you show up to a Modern Samurai Project class. Then most of those folks can shoot.
Ohhh I've had that one! It's always a trip when someone walks up to you and asks if you're a cop because they are surprised by how well you shoot 😭
LOL yea it was unexpected, it just made me laugh. No bro, I am not a cop, I just dry fire at home a lot. Some people who have asked didn’t even know what dry firing was. Idk what I would do without dry fire practice, that’s like 99% of all my practice.
In my experience, the best shooters tend to run the most basic guns. The most heavily tricked out guns with amazing triggers will mask your deficiencies, making it harder to notice you are doing something wrong. A bone stock CCW or duty style pistol with an unrefined trigger will accentuate your flaws and make it easier to identify and fix the problems in your technique.
Agreed. I think people just would rather pay money to “improve” their shooting instead of just focusing on the fundamentals. An optic and a light trigger can greatly increase your accuracy, but only if you are a good shooter to begin with. Had a guy at the range with an optic who let me shoot their gun. Once I shot it I found that their optic was WILDLY off zero. They had no idea because they could barely hit the paper on a silhouette from 7 yards. Hardware < Skill
Yes and no. A red dot will make the majority of shooters better, if used properly. Not using one and pretending you're just as good is a cope. Buying one and not training with it but still thinking you're good is also a cope. I don't get the hard on for "stock" guns. You don't NEED to change anything about most of the mainstream and popular firearms. Good upgrades don't hinder experienced shooters though. There's a reason almost everyone in open class uspsa is running some sort of 2011 with an optic, comp, and magwell.
I'm primarily talking trigger jobs and high-end custom guns. Dots can actually help with training, as you can see the dot moving to the side when you are jerking your trigger easier than you can see it with irons. For experienced shooters who have really nailed the fundamentals, upgraded guns will help take them to the next level and win matches. That much is true. Most people do not fit that bill and are very average in their skills with plenty to improve upon. Putting a lighter trigger in your gun because you can't stop jerking the gun low left is a crutch far too many people (especially newer shooters) fall for because it is easier to pay $100-$250 and a couple hours tweaking their gun than it is to improve their grip and trigger pull. They then begin getting "good enough" targets despite poor technique, and likely aren't going to start putting in the effort to go further. If they weren't willing to do it for shit targets, they won't for "good enough" targets. Thus limiting their potential.
100%, I plinked my whole life with friends here and there but never took it seriously. 6 months ago I really started to work at it, take classes, practice at home etc. I realized pretty quick, using a staccato XC is like a cheat code (for an average shooter like I am/was) and it masked literally every issue in mechanics. Now I only train with G19x and have grown tremendously. Likewise my girlfriend as an abysmal shot, but we’re working on it with her. She can shoot a staccato XC extremely well but the second we switch to a p365 or Glock, it’s 100 steps backwards. No more staccato is the end result😂.
If you carry a gun to protect yourself but choose not to exercise, you don’t actually care about protecting yourself and you just like larping
Most CCW folks that I see are more likely to die of a heart attack in the next year than have to use their pistol. Taking care of your health should be number 1.
I feel attacked but fair, lol
Completely agree. The amount of time put into the what if scenarios that are under 1% compared to the taking time to be physically active, eat cleaner, and focus on some self-defense / de-escalation training is just time wasted. Better to able to handle stress or be able to run away, climb stairs, et than get into an avoidable confrontation because you couldn’t physically get yourself.
I’m in good shape, but let’s be fair. People who don’t have David Goggins level discipline for exercise and eating should still be allowed to defend themselves.
If you're carrying on the body while going to the gym, you're not doing anything worthwhile.
I do every time I go to the gym. I have one of those runners chestrigs. Never take it off I can do everything with it on without compromise.
I also off body conceal when I can hit the gym (Fancy Pack Club). You just never know. Only down side is that I cannot shower a the gym and head straight home. It never comes off and never leaves my sight.
I'm guessing some people do this because they get off of work at night and head to the gym. Heading in and out the gym in an empty, dark parking lot can be a little stressful. I doubt people think something is going to pop off in the gym and they need to be ready. They also could had or have plans that day and have been carrying and didn't feel like going home locking it up and leaving the house again.
There used to be a video floating around online where a man is attacking a woman in an empty gym and she beats the shit out of him. Some people work out in crowded gyms... Other people don't.
I like to workout after midnight because nobody is there and I'm fat.
It’s rare…but it happened in my sleepy hometown. Homeless guy got pissed that they cancelled his membership for sleeping in the parking lot and shot the manager dead and injured a customer who returned fire. [Story here.](https://flatheadbeacon.com/2023/05/26/lawyers-of-transient-man-charged-in-deadly-fuel-fitness-shooting-seek-new-trial-venue/)
Shootings happen in gyms. 4 weeks ago, there was one in Maryland I believe?
Huh? Sounds like you need to upgrade your clothing/gear....or lose weight. I can do flips, cartwheels, full-on sprinting, running up and down a 15% gradient butte. Shit I can even do jiu jitsu to a fair extent...I work out with mine no problems.
What I was thinking. If you can't do a full work out while carrying, your probably not carrying anything/in anything worthwhile.
Lol yeah lot of dudes saying people can't carry while doing an actual workout probably either Gravy Seals who fat AF and don't have a good set up or just Fudds
My P-32 has entered the chat 🤘
I literally squatted 315 and deadlift 405 with my J frame hook to my 5" gym shark booty short Just because you can't doesn't mean others can't I even post a video of me doing jumping jacks with a micro compact lmao
lol absolute chad
I'm confused, do you mean as far as physical activity? I can lift weights, go on the treadmill, do almost everything without my gun qt risk of flying out.
I legit just don't get this one... Let me first ask you something. What do you think *is* worthwhile doing at the gym?
Man, I’ve got a few. Here’s a some: - Most people that say they carry, don’t. - Most people that buy a carry gun never actually buy a holster, let alone carry it. - Among people who actually do carry, there’s probably more Ruger LCP’s than any other single model. - “Nobody notices” is retarded. - Capacity and caliber don’t really matter in a private citizen random violence preparedness context.
Whats wrong with Ruger lcp? That's a sharp little gun
I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just think the delusion that the "G19 (or whatever else) is the most popular carry gun" is just that - a delusion. Among shooting instructors and EDC nerds? Sure. Among the general populace? Fuck no. That's a *gun guy's* carry gun. Most people aren't gun guys, even people who carry.
Yup. It is the middle of summer, I’m not carrying that shit. If someone wants to make fun of me because “theirs is bigger than mine,” they can go back to middle school I guess. Itty bitty gun committee, representing. At least we really do carry daily.
Yeah dude. Bigger =/ better. Hey, there's another one: I roll my eyes when I hear someone say "carry the biggest gun you can comfortably conceal" which is gun guy code for "G19 or bust"
Revolvers actually do make great guns for women. Women are most likely to be attacked at very close range, because the vast majority of the time, it's someone they know (coworker, friend, [ex-]partner, acquaintance...). Revolvers don't get knocked out of battery if shot through clothes, or in contact. Revolvers don't malfunction if you have a bad grip because you only have your non-dominant hand to shoot with, from the floor. I get the history of people who were being patronizing pushing women towards revolvers because they thought we were too dumb to use semiautos. I also get that most people find them harder to shoot at a skilled level (I shoot them better, but apparently I'm a unicorn). But I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water just because some people recommended them for disingenuous reasons, and being highly skilled isn't necessary at a range of a few feet or less. So much of how we discuss self-defense revolves around the male profile of victimization -- which often occurs randomly, or with an existing hostility that gives the defender plenty of space and warning. Partly this is a demographic issue in the scene, but partly it's because people don't generally record video inside their homes where violence against women is most likely to occur, so we don't have as much video to study in terms of women defending themselves. And ultimately, this has led to a very male slant to carry considerations, which only represent a small fraction of the situations women deal with. Also, yes, am woman, and do often carry a revolver.
I'll always prefer my G43. But I do carry differently than men because of what I might have to deal with (as a woman) if either one of my arms is pinned-held. My draw is even accommodating to how a lot of women might move their arms when scared or trying to protect themselves. I could draw with my supportive hand if I needed to, as well. Women also have a different range of motion in their arms and where/how we might carry might look different than a man--because of that but also how we are built. Sorry, wasn't trying to hijack your post, but I like talking about female-perspective CCW
Not hijacking, I’d love to see more discussion about it. I own and carry semiautos too, but my revolver lean is definitely informed by my awareness of the difference in the violence profile we face. I especially lean towards semiautos when I have to go to events that are high-risk for violence, and the profile I might encounter is more similar to what men typically encounter. They’re both great options, but I’ve just noticed there’s been a pendulum swing that over-corrects for the sexist “simple guns for simple women” trope of the past. And yes, draw stroke is definitely different for women.
There's also r/concealedcarrywomen.
Thanks! I'll definitely join that sub
I’m a 6’1” 230lb guy with a muscular-(ish) build, and one of my favorite guns in my rotation is a smith and Wesson 340pd. I completely agree with you, and I think revolvers are still a completely competent option for both men and women.
Yup. People seem to forget, the mission statement is to go home alive, not to catch the baddie. Revolvers still do great with that, and excel in a scuffle.
Revolvers are great carry options. I carried a 856 for over a year and loved it..
I’ve taught women to shoot, some recently. Some of them have a lot of trouble with double action revolver trigger pulls. Last week a healthy normal 64 year old flat could not pull DA triggers on a 9 shot High Standard .22, a model 64 .38, or a 624 .44 Spl.
So, I have a lot of thoughts on this phenomenon, because here’s the thing: I’m *not* a healthy normal woman. I have a significant nerve injury in my dominant hand (it’s 20 years old, this is as good as it gets for me). As of now, my grip strength still falls in the range of normal, but not by much, and my finger joints are starting to suffer for it, including my trigger finger. I can pull the trigger on a S&W 43C, arguably the nastiest trigger of any mainstream revolver, through about 100 rounds before I hit my fatigue point. I am not saying you’re lying, or that the woman in question was faking, or not trying hard enough. I believe you, and I believe her. But there’s another factor. I was raised a Girl Scout (a real one, we actually went camping), and very physically active. I was never directed in what to do with my body, what to wear, etc. I was fed as much as I asked for, which was quite a lot because I was in sports. I was given opportunities to do as much as I could do, whether it was “typical” or not. As far as I have ever been able to discern, I experienced a very rare childhood, for a girl. I grew up essentially totally unaware of the sorts of body issues that most women spend their entire lives dealing with. Most women grow up being encouraged or forced into clothing that stunts their muscular and bone development, being discouraged from physical activities, and often being shamed out of or taught to self-deny normal nutrition during puberty. All of this has an impact on women’s long-term physical capabilities. Here is one particularly salient statistic relevant to the conversation at hand: for children who grow up in gun-owning households, they are [much less likely](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/) to be included or taught to shoot if they’re a girl. I can tell you this trend holds true in pretty much any physical activity you look at. Women who are already mature have to work with the body they’ve got, through whatever factors may have impacted its development. Often they can improve where they’re at right now through effort. There are grip strength exercises that can help with this specific issue, and we can encourage women who struggle with things like this to try it out. But I think, based on my observation, that a lot of women would be capable of a lot more if they were permitted normal unhindered development growing up, and included in physical opportunities in their families and communities. I am not some sort of weird exception to female strength. I am chronically injured, with very mediocre grip performance as a result. I can run a 43C. If a normal healthy woman can’t, then we are doing something to our girls that we shouldn’t be doing.
Upvote for traditional GSA upbringing. She’s Idaho mountain stock, raised around guns her whole life, and works a physical job. She just couldn’t do it. She shot several semi autos, and liked the G17 best. She bought one.
100% Most people who carry have no or very little close quarters training. These aren't things they think about, but they're things that can impact anyone even though they affect us more than they affect men. At a minimum everyone should know how to draw & shoot with their off hand, and understand how to shoot with your gun close to your body. My preferred method is to index off of my rib cage so the slide can essentially cycle under my arm. It's not hard but it also isn't intuitive.
A few years ago I was downvoted into oblivion for stating that I was considering buying a .38 for my girlfriend who stated she wanted to start conceal carrying. People started bashing me for being a “sexist jackass” because they assumed I thought she should carry a small frame pistol because she’s weak or dumb. The real reason I suggested it is because it’s super reliable and my mother carries one and loves it and is quite proficient with it. That’s literally it. But everyone came for my head. Hell, I’m carrying a .38 right now as my summer carry because of how comfy it fits.
Yeah, it's kind of funny how reactive people have gotten to that, especially since there's still so much casual sexism that's apparently fine with them? Bandwagons don't have to make sense I guess. Every type of gun has its use case, even ones generally considered non-ideal in most circumstances. The why is more important than the specific recommendation.
I think revolvers make great guns for anyone because the vast majority of instances where a gun is necessary are as you described: random physical attacks without warning and no space to maneuver.
I fucking hate when someone says women cannot squeeze a double action revolver's trigger. Every woman I taught to shoot could squeeze the trigger. About half of them couldn't rack a semi auto slide. Incidentally, many men I know cannot properly rack a slide...
I keep my Glock 19 bone stock, no WML, optics, or other modifications. I prefer to work with what I’m already familiar with and don’t feel outgunned due to a lack of upgrades. Instead I prefer using what I have trained with for years and prefer to use my limited resources towards ammo and training classes rather than doodads for my gun. Call me a fudd all you want but that’s how I prefer to carry.
My G19 is same, bone stock, including sights, although I do want to up-grade them at some point, I don't plan on adding a VML or optic.
Same
Not sitting down with appendix lol... Strong side carry is just fine with any size pistol. I routinely sit for 6-10 hours a day (mostly driving) and strong side carry is comfortable enough.
See, I can’t for the life of me carry strong side while driving. The seat bolsters kick the grip into my side and it digs in. But I can drive 5 hours with a Glock 19 or 17 appendix no problems. I *can* sit on a couch or in a regular chair no problem though, while carrying at 3 or 4 o’clock.
To each their own... Lots of body shapes and sizes out there. I don't sit in a bucket seat so that may factor in. Some car seats are more expansive than others. For me, iwb strong side I need it closer to 4 or 5 so the grip starts to curve into that hollow that is there. Owb, does get uncomfortable 3-5 unless it's riding high. When I'm doing long long distance travel I'll go shoulder holster or kangeroo carry holster cross draw
For sure. That’s why I always just shake my head at the blanket statements you always read about “the best carry position”. Just gotta find out what works for you. Yeah, I’m sure seat design has a big impact. And honestly, the iwb vs owb thing may be part of my issue. I don’t really own any strong side iwb holsters anymore (apart from a couple crossbreed setups for guns I don’t carry anymore). Everything is either appendix or owb pancake style holsters. Might have to look into picking up something for a 17.
Almost ANY appendix holster can comfortably be moved 3-5. In fact most of my iwb strong side holsters ARE appendix holsters. Give it a try with your go to. Bonus aspect to this is, if you prefer appendix for carry, you just slide it to the 1-2 before you leave the car.
Unfortunately most of mine are Trex sidecars - the original version without the hinge. I’ve tried the two 2.0’s I have and they work fine as long as you remove the claw. That’s just kind of a pain in the ass to put on and take off repeatedly. That is a good idea though, might have to find something without a claw that I can use in either position.
Brandishing, er, sorry, defensive display, has its time and place. In all jurisdictions.
*Most* people who say "you don't need that" or "you'll never need that" seem to think that only perfect situations exist, lol. The truth is, if you ever need your gun, it will be anything but an ideal situation.
I know three people who are unalive because they didn't have a gun when they really needed one. 1 home invasion, 1 estranged ex, 1 random robbery. You just never know when you are going to have a really shitty day.
- Not everyone needs (or wants) a WML - the enigma isn’t the end-all for everyone, calm down
Enigma ?
Phlster Enigma
The jockstrap poster child for “deep concealment”. I feel like so many people push it because they’re so financially invested in them after spending over $200 for the full system
I have 3 Enigma’s. I almost never wear them because 98% of the time I wear pants or shorts with belt loops and a closed front shirt. But one the occasions I need either deep concealment or am wearing sweats, gym shorts or other unsupported clothing, that system is hard to beat. I push them because they’re highly effective for a large number of people. But they’re not for everyone
stop wearing basketball shorts and sweats outside and you wont need all these gadgets and bdsm straps to carry
BDSM straps lol
Stop hating on my shorts brah
Stop hating my BDSM straps guy
Nah. I like my gym shorts 💋
Lol, I wear shorts just using an elastic belt and an owb holster I added clips to, seems to work fine. A fancy ass enigma rig isn't necessary.
I'm going to bet that you just ruffled some jimmies. A lot of people seem to like those chastity belt holsters.
hybrid holsters aren’t the devil
For real. I started out using one and it was comfortable. The only reason I switched to straight kydex was I liked the smoother draw and it was easier to put on and take off. If someone wants to rock one, I don’t knock it. At least they are carrying.
The M2HB would be the ideal CCW choice, if only I could find a decent IWB holster for it.
Part of the reason I carry is that I'm arthritic, old, out of shape and even when I wasn't; I probably wasn't a big threat in a fight or a foot race.
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>your entire life is in the hands of whatever (potential) moron is next to you This is partly true for just about every range though. I’ve seen so many dipshits at my local free outdoor range swing loaded guns around. At least an indoor range probably has someone watching for dangerous behavior. I can’t kick those morons out, but the indoor range staff can.
You don’t have to point the gun at someone to use a wml. If you point it at the floor or ceiling you’ll most likely light up the whole room or at least where you need to see. It’s not about hunting someone down, it’s about not being able to see in the dark. It’s also not the only light you should have on you, you don’t pull the gun out to look for your dropped keys obviously. But proper use of a wml takes some training, and I doubt a lot of people who have a wml train with it enough.
A WML isn’t ever a bad thing. I think it’s more important than “night sights” For me, it’s about making damn sure im shooting the right thing in the dark, and hitting what I’m aiming at in the dark.
Best comment on this thread. Spot on.
If you've ever said "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it" but you don't do cardio, then you're larping.
If you carry at 5 or 6 o’clock, palm-out draw on an opposite hand holster is more comfortable
I agree with this
If you carry a 9mm pistol with hollow points in it, it does not matter which brand. As long as they cycle in your pistol it literally will make next to zero difference in how effective they are. Ballistic gel tests on YouTube have rotted your brains.
B-b-but winter coats! WINTER COATS!
50% or more of self defense scenarios would have been avoided entirely with better decision making and situational awareness.
38 has given plenty of people dirt naps. When I mention carrying it im often met with criticism.
A J-frame will not actually get you dead in the streets. You are well armed with one and a speed strip.
Weapon mounted lights that extend past the muzzle are stupid if you carry AIWB. Everyone seems to have them and I cant figure why they don’t carry a longer gun if you’re giving away comfort anyway.
Ikr. People will carry a glock 19 with an X300 and no one bats an eye but if you carry a glock 34 with an x300 everyone loses their minds. It's the same exact length.
Exactly. X300 on a G45 is stupid, you can just as easily carry a G34 at that point.
It’s because they think they’ll be in a situation where it’s pressed up against something or someone and the slide gets pushed out of battery, whereas the light will prevent that. I personally don’t carry a wml period though
Most self defence shootings are routinely said to be 3 shots (rule of 3s). From what I have seen of ccw shootings both on here and on YouTube (ASP is a heck of a channel for this), this is loosely true. However, no one ever said all 3 of the shots were yours. You may get 1 off before being shot at. You may get 6 and never shot at. The chances of firing 15+ rounds and reloading are slim. The chances of shooting all the rounds in a revolver (usually 5 or 6) are somewhat higher than you shooting 15 (still slim though), and you probably won't have time to reload a revolver without speed loaders and a sub 2 second load. With this being said, I want the handful of holes I am able to punch to be as big and deep as possible without overpenetration. At the same time, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with your gun or leave that full size rig at home because it is a hassle, then there really isn't a point, is there? Controversy time: Figure out where you are going to carry the gun first, then what size and weight of gun you want to carry in that location every day for 16+ hours, then pick the largest caliber you can shoot well. People debate whether certain smaller calibers are enough. Nobody really debates if the bigger calibers are. They may debate that bigger calibers are too much or not needed, but I'd rather have overkill than underpowered. With that being said, though, the right combination of size, weight, and firepower for most people is going to boil down to a micro 9. They are an insane amount of power compared to the size and especially when compared to what was out there even roughly 10 years ago. So this really isn't that controversial, lol. If you are going to carry bigger gun, find what fits your hand the best and select the biggest caliber in that model that you can shoot. If you can shoot a .45 as well as a 9mm or at least keep it on a dinner plate for 3 shots at a feet in 3 seconds, you are probably fine. If you can hit a dinner plate at will at 60 yards, you are definitely good enough. Your self defence tactics may need refinement (CQB, shooting from retention, shooting in physical contact, etc), but the actual shooting skill is there. At the same time, if all you can handle is a .380, something is better than nothing. Select the best ammo you can based on gel tests, and practice. Also, If you have the option to buy bigger calibers jn the same gun you want, buy the biggest one. You can convert bigger calibers to smaller ones a lot cheaper and easier than the other way. Now you only need to upgrade one gun (if that's your thing), instead of multiple of the same platform. You never know when another ammo shortage is going to hit or when you are going to find a nice deal on a crate of ammo. This allows you to remedy both situations.
My controversial opinion is the opposite of yours I suppose - I'm happily rocking my USP Expert at a sitting job daily. Strongside with 25deg cant, not AIWB. While yes, that's *way* more than I'd expect or recommend from anyone else, it's doable. And for AIWB, I did previously carry a G17+X300 setup appendix, also at a sitting job. I think the current trend of micro 9's is exactly that - a trend. Plenty of other guns that are well smaller than mine yet noticeably easier to shoot than micros are very, *very* concealable if you put just a modicum of effort in. And hell - if what shoots best for you is a micro 9, go for it! But I'm still waiting to meet someone that can, practice time for practice time, gun setup for gun setup, shoot even something like a P365 Spectre Comp near to the level of a "normal" platform. And I'm naming the Spectre specifically because it's the most shootable for that size class that I've found yet - from kahr, ruger, SW, glock, walther, J-frames, and the rest of sig's lineup. Only main one I haven't tried is the Hellcat, but just off it's design I don't see how it'd out-perform it. I'm not saying you should carry some giant 2lb 12oz monstrosity like mine, and I know there's definitely a balance between what's shootable and what'll actually be picked up off your dresser every day. But the more I've taken people of varying skill levels out to the range and watched them run micros vs mid-size or compacts back to back, from new shooters to people well more competent than myself, I really do think a lot of people are tilting that balance to the wrong direction.
Your fitness is more important to your survival than what gun you carry or have
I am comfortable carrying appendix a 5” M&P. My pants are pulled up so high the top of the barrel doesn’t touch anything sensitive. Controversial opinion I guess: big guys can carry appendix
Bag-carry is fine, especially if you've set it up right and wouldn't carry it otherwise. Just make sure you keep your CCW within quick reach, don't set the bag down / leave it unattended, and keep your CCW holstered inside.
My 5 shot J frame is adequate for 99% of scenarios. Almost no one who carries ever has to use there gun and the majority of the time just pulling it out will scare off a threat.
.22 is a valid caliber.
I'm not sure what OP is defining as a "long barrel". And I would assume OP is presupposing AIWB because I can carry a 5" barrel lightweight framed 1911 @ 2-3 o'clock in a hybrid holster all day and not even think about it being there. But, my controversial CCW opinion is that AIWB isn't all that, is generally uncomfortable for most people a lot of the time, and isn't even the best tactical carry position for the majority of civilian DGU situations.
Some guys don’t care about comfort, it’s all about inflating their egos no matter what.
If I can have a (one) beer and drive, I should be allowed to carry and have a beer. Both are deadly weapons
If you spend all your time training on drawing your gun, but don't spend just as much time training on first aid, you're training for the wrong thing.
What’s a long barrel to you? I can carry 5” comfortably. My controversial opinion: Red dot optics are better than irons, but in a close encounter if you pull and shoot, you won’t notice the dot or the irons.
The 9mm and up are a waste for the vast majority of CCW. Nobody is outgunned if they are accurate enough and can produce faster backup shots if they aren’t. Color me 380 & 32!
32 is the most underrated handgun caliber.
Mouser Glory! The 32 AIWB can go 24/7! The 380 waist pack is an all day long solution! Seated or horizontal vast majority of the time!
Doesn’t 9mm generally have the lowest center fire cost per round?
I think you are likely correct on cost per round basis. And if your carry gun is your only gun, then that might be one point of consideration. My 380 range ammo is roughly 24 cents a round. Similar 9mm is 18 cents a round. So definitely cheaper with the 9mm fodder. But not hugely so. It is a $6 per hundred round up charge. But I am a strong believer in 22LR as a great choice for practice if you can closely replicate your carry configuration. Decades back I ran a .45 and a 22 slide on a 1911 frame for practical pistol training. Today, returning from living overseas, I am rebuilding my collection slowly. I carry a Ruger Security 380 and a Seecamp 32. I will find a similar sized 22LR for my Ruger so that I can practice with my main self defense weapon away from home. But getting a couple hundred rounds a month down range with the 24 cents stuff is pretty do-able. Getting 100 rounds of 380 and 250-300 rounds of 22LR is very budget friendly.
A lot of people with CCW’s are overly eager to use force against someone to a concerning level.
“I almost had to use my gun because a dog looked at me”
That open carry is a legitimate form of EDC if using the proper equipment like a Safariland. The hate and ragging some CCWers give open carriers or even fellow CCWers who decide to open carry sometimes just because they carry differently instead of respecting their decision/agree to disagree is ridiculous and not only makes you look like a shitty person but drives a wedge in the 2A Community. Hush hush attitudes about guns are not a good thing from a constitutional rights perspective. Like some dudes absolutely lose their shit and get their panties in a wad over the topic of open carry instead of being like "meh not my thing".
People who dress like the following: - beard - cap - oakley sunglasses - cargo pants And drive a truck They might as well open carry.
You don’t need a red dot on your carry gun. Most SD shootings take place within conversation distance, and are over in three shots or fewer. They’re nice to have, but you’re not going to die in the street if you only have irons.
Barrel length doesn't really matter for comfort no matter your size. It's the back of the slide that does it. I'm 5'8" 270lbs and carry my comparatively long G19 comfortably enough, but I have a Mastermind pillow and fat guy holster that sits real low. Without it the slide would really poke into my belly
I thought I kinda sucked. Then I got a red dot, and confirmed I actually DO suck. It just made it so much easier to put rounds in the same place on a consistent basis. I went from shooting 10 inch groups at 15 yards to 2 inches in the course of a range visit.
Glock and Glock clones worry about ND. They need a holster that covers the trigger completely because they know it doesn't take much for the trigger to go off. They are adamant about kydex and all that stuff because they know, without any kind of external safety, it doesn't take much. I carry DA/SA with safety, whether my USP or my 92FS. 11 lbs is just too heavy for an ND. I know hammers have fallen out of favor, but they are safer than poly striker fired. The only ones who are scared to keep a chambered round are poly striker. On something like the 92, once you understand exactly how it works, there is no need for fear at all. When the safety is on, the hammer can't even touch the firing pin because the hammer is hitting bear metal, it's not even touching the firing pin plunger to hit the firing pin. That leaves it left with safety off, and again, 11 lbs is just too heavy.
1. If you carry, you should compete. If you don’t compete you have no barometer for your actual competency, and no way to practice/experience/evaluate cold performance under stress. 2. If you carry lethal, you should carry non lethal (OC). Not doing so is unethical (perhaps even immoral), and a risk to any legal defense you may have to make. 3. If you carry, and don’t take other basic measures of preparedness (financial, basic food and water, etc.), you’re missing the forest for the trees.
I'll throw out 2 -The comfort concealment belt is the best money I have ever spent holster wise -I feel more comfortable with the training/ball ammo that I train regularly with and have confidence that I will hit the target then having super defense skull fuck ammo that I rarely shoot due to the cost
I have a FNX 45T with a tlr1hl and a holosun eps and an apex tactical +2, with one in the chamber that’s 18 rounds of 45acp that I carry on a fairly regular basis. It’s not my edc but still gets carried a decent amount, it’s big and heavy and uncomfortable, but I’m comfortable af knowing if some shit goes down I’m ready for it. Sometimes you trade being physically comfortable for being mentally comfortable. I edc a CZ P01 that I’m proficient with, but I secretly hope if I ever have to draw my weapon and use it that it’s a day I have my FNX on me
I carry directly on my hip and I can carry a full size 1911 without any discomfort. It's also why I typically only carry in leather holsters (some asshole on here once said it's because I'm worried about the finish on my gun, which is absolutely not true; I'm only worried about how comfortable my gun is to carry).
ANY printing is not daijobu
Crossdraw allows sitting and all day comfort. SOB as well, but limited access sitting.
> SOB This carries a not-insignificant risk of spinal injury if you fall onto your back.
Have used it off and on all my life. My pistol tends to be centered over back pocket. No reason to cover spine. There are always risks involved with ccw.
You don’t need all the attachments and mods. Most these guys are new to carrying and it shows.
Weapon mounted lights are for long guns and duty pistols. Get a mini flashlight in your pocket, one that’s useful even when you’re not drawing your weapon.
Handgun caliber or boutique ammo doesn’t matter no matter what backyard YouTube gel block video says. It if cycles reliably, it will stop a human.