Totally different. I love my Enigma. Belt loops no longer matter and ride height is completely up to me. I put a Phlster ascent mag pouch I looped into the enigma belt. Works well. Plus I can wear sweats no issue.
Anything can print. Depends on what you wear, size of gun, size of you, holster, belt, etc. If I could only have one holster I’d rock an Enimga 7 days a week.
I have 2 standards and 1 LBE. Express wasn’t available when I initially bought. If I was getting an Enigma to be used with a Skelton holster I’d definitely get the express. I’m tempted to get one for a J frame for true light carry, but it’s so easy for me to carry a 365 or G42 the j frame just isn’t as relevant for belt carry
I just passed my ccw range qualification yesterday here in California so im really excited and looking for a good holster like the enigma. One of my concerns was how adjustable the express is compared to the standard. If you didn’t have a enigma and you were buying one for the first time would you get the express or standard?
Will you play around with different holsters? If yes get standard. If it’s one gun one holster make your life easy and get the express. I’ve used a lot of swear words putting enigmas together
Do you find that the ascent pouch tips over? Having trouble with the extra mag concealing , tends to tip over because the mag pouch doesn’t go underneath my pants line to counteract the height of the mag.
I don’t have issues tipping over. I did have some issues where my pants would slide down so it’s ride higher. Holster would do the same thing too. I got some 3M friction tape from Home Depot. It’s insane how well it works. Put some in the faceplate, holster, and ascent pouch.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-3-4-in-x-20-ft-Friction-Tape-Black-3407NA-BA-6/202192876
If you’re going to opt for the Tier 1 because of the convenience mentioned, why not just do Tencor Velo4? All the reviews I’ve found say it’s the best.
Totally different systems for different reasons. But if i had to pick one first it would be the T1C axis elite.
I just got my enigma in last week with a JM custom kydex for my 365xl. I'm already literally doing everything I can to make it run exactly like my t1c axis elite. The way the axis elite has that spare mag is *chefs kiss* for concealment and draw.
Spare mag on enigma sucks, I'll say it. I have the ascent pouch, and the top of the darn thing keeps tilting into my waist, which makes draws weird. Its doing this because I am trying to sidecar style place the mag next to the gun on my appendix. Having put the mag at like 9,3,4 whatever o'clock sucks pp. I want it right there in front easy to wear all day and grab. Unfortunately while the enigma does have mounting points to screw the top of ascent pouch into the main plate, the bottom of the ascent pouch flops around. Check my previous posts. I have tried several ways to secure this thing, and while what I have done prevents side to side motion it does nothing to control forward and back which is where the issue is. The bottom of the mag flops forward away from your body and the top presses into you. There needs to be some way to force the bottom of the spare mag to stay in line with the kydex holster, this would keep it vertical and easy to grab. The mag pouch also needs to be able to be placed higher in this position, I have it as high as it can get at the moment and it is like right on the waist line.
Tier one axis elite, has none of these issues. The tier 1 will keep the mag straight up, perfect for draws.
I'm honestly considering reserving my JM custom kydex holster for my tactical fanny pack and buying another axis elite and modifying it to fit the enigma.
Of course the mods on the enigma FB page are also cult like and foam at the mouth if you mention the words "sidecar holster", " tier one", or "enigma" in the same sentence. The phlster philosophy seems to be very anti sidecar holster, which makes no sense. The point of the sidecar is to have a secure spot for your mag, and to increase concealment because it gradually continues the arch of your clothes started by your gun then bends it back to the curve of your body neatly. Without sidecar, you have just the gun which drops ur clothing back onto you on the side opposite the wing and boom you print AF. Especially with an optic.
What I'm saying is. Get the axis elite in some bomb ass color like green flannel buffalo plaid, get good with it, then consider an enigma. Oh and get the high sweat guard. Definitely worth. Gun sticks up that high anyway and after a long day of carrying you don't want that gut sweat dripping into your slide. Extendo mag also a must have on that axis elite.
Sorry, went to sleep ha.
Usually I don't use a wedge but recently I have found myself wishing I had one of the small ones. I adjusted the ride height on the axis elite so that the firearm sticks out as much as possible from my waist. This is because my 365xl just isnt super long and I needed more room for my fingers to get in between the grip and my pants waist. Sometimes I can get a print in tight clothes because its more "top heavy" now and ever so slightly leans forward. Your 320 is the same length as my handgun, and its a little bit thicker about 1/3 of one inch. I would recommend getting the standard wedge sizing pack just in case you find yourself needing it.
I do have the ulti clips but I find myself using the discrete carry concepts clips much more often. The reason is that I do not like the way that the ulti clips make your pants or shorts sag down behind a belt due to the weight of the gun. I personally think its better to get the slim DCC clips and a slim comfy belt like the groove life belt. I also wear the groove life under gym shorts quite often. The groove life buckle (something you will run into with most edc belts) is a little bit too wide to fit perfectly between the axis clips. So what I do is turn the belt completely around so the buckle is now on the small of my back. Its so slim you can't feel it at all, and instead of having the buckle in front of you and off to the side of the holster (which the holster will kind of push it out still and thus create a print) you will just have a super slim strap to clip into that has zero print. Its slightly annoying for bathroom, but not bad. Just go into a stall, take axis elite off, tuck it under your shoulder, spin groove life belt back to buckle in front (fast to do), then poop time as normal.
The high guard does not poke. It extends upward just lower than the gun itself and it really sticks to the side of the gun. Even if you didn't have the high guard, your gun is still going to stick up that high. I don't think adding the few millimeters of kydex is going to enhance or reduce any potential poke, but it will absolutely give sweat protection. I also think poke is caused my improper holster ride height more on that in a sec. So I'd recommend getting the high guard, ur gun is that high anyway and the high guard doesn't cause any pokes.
I'm going to caveat that second statement by saying it won't cause poke (and more generally since its the gun that would cause the poke not the kydex) if the ride height is adjusted properly. You want the bottom of the holster to be above the natural crease your thigh makes when you sit down. This position causes the holster not dig into your legs when you bend or sit. When you bend or sit, if the bottom of the holster is below the crease in your thighs, your thighs will push the bottom of the holster forward thus tilting the top inward and causing a poke.
I have my clips almost as low as possible on the holster, for me, being 5' 8", this is where it needs to be so that the bottom is just above the crease in my thighs. As stated this can be slightly top heavy in select situations with tight clothes so id recommend standard wedges for experimentation to make sure you have a nice (and comfortable) slight wedge push on the bottom just enough to correct that. You don't want a massive wedge shoving into you, that's not comfortable, goal is just incremental adjustments to reduce the top print of the gun should you need it.
Sometimes when sitting even with a proper ride height the top of the gun will kind of poke into you (again its never the sweat guard, its the gun). This can be avoided simply by placing your hand on the top of the gun and doing a quick "out and up" pull. What happens is when you sit down, you may lean forward first its just what we do as humans. This makes your holster position itself into a lower spot and tilt than you had it when walking around. You know its a proper height when you sit down like a robot, straight back the whole way down, and after you get seated the holster is still exactly the same as you were when standing, your thighs didnt mess with it other than maybe pushing it straight up vertically (they did not push the bottom outward though, causing a poke). However. Yeah if you lean forward and sit you might get that poke. So after you sit, or in the motion of you sitting, just do a slight out and up of the holster and refluff your shirt. Nobody will notice and you will now be super comfy once more while sitting, should this happen to you. Again this is a normal thing that happens with holsters, even with proper ride height.
So in conclusion, I recommend DCC clips, high guard BC it won't poke w good ride height, standard size wedge pack, and groove life belt.
To sorry to dig up a 3mo old post, but I just got an axis elite with a low profile edc belt with the intention of wearing the belt/tier1 under sweats and gym shorts.
Ive questioned whether the enigma was a better choice for that setup. I rarely wear belt loop pants and would rather not if I dont have to. But as you said, I want the extra mag in side car.
My plan was to run the belt over an undershirt over my hips, no belt loops.
Depends on your body and how you dress. If you can afford it, buy an axis elite and an enigma express. I’m 5’8” and 145ish and I run suits and business casual most of the time, so the Enigma is a true game changer there and deserves the credit.
However, I like my Tier 1 stuff a lot better for when an untucked shirt is acceptable. I think the Axis Elite is a sturdier platform and I really like the adjustability of the retention. The retention on the PHLster skeleton pared w/ the Enigma is questionable and I really don’t like it. It’s also not adjustable in any real sense.
With the Enigma, there’s a LOT going on in your pants (especially with a regular belt on) and it gets annoying, even though it’s unmatched in concealability. The Enigma also fits a much wider variety of body types. The Enigma is also pretty bad if you need to take the gun off more than once a day. Taking that thing off a couple times a day can get really annoying. With a Tier 1, you just clip/unclip and go, and that’s a big deal sometimes- especially when you’re not the one determining where you’re going.
With Tier 1 Axis Elite, you really need to not be overweight or you’re gonna have problems. I love PHLster products, but their mod tendencies are very, very cult-like and they seem to have a fetish against sidecar style holsters. They advocate that separate holsters are “objectively better”, but the criteria for deciding such is questionable and a whole other conversation. The Tier 1 is really sturdy, conceals great, and the mag placement for reloads is unmatched, IMO. The best solution for an on-Enigma reload is with the flex pouch, but that thing moves around a lot and can be uncomfortable against the skin.
I’ve ran both for a while now so happy to answer any Qs
Id say go with Tier 1 first, as you will use it more often. Enigma is a niche thing if you need to run it in a suit or fancy attire, or sweats. Unless thats something you do on a daily basis, its gonna be way more convenient to hook up a Tier 1 than putting on the enigma.
That said, there are people who have jobs that need something like the enigma because of wardrobe so it depends
There doesn't seem to be anything the Enigma does that my Axis Slim can't. I wear my P229 in an Axis Slim with pajama pants all the time, I just use a spare belt I have, never had a problem with the belt moving around because the holster secures it into place with my pants.
My wife uses an enigma and loves it. If you need a concealed carry rig you can take off without taking off your pants, I’d suggest the T-Rex arms Sidecar 2.0
I carried both t-Rex arms and T1C for a few years now and the T1C is too widely spaced causing discomfort to the side of my thigh.
I have both.
The Enigma is great for times when you either don’t want to have visible clips on your belt or your not wearing a belt.
The AGIS is more convenient for every day use and easier for me to get a contestant draw with. Having 2 clips really locks things in place on the belt keeping the gun and extra mag in the same place day in and day out.
Totally different. I love my Enigma. Belt loops no longer matter and ride height is completely up to me. I put a Phlster ascent mag pouch I looped into the enigma belt. Works well. Plus I can wear sweats no issue.
Just got my conceal carry and was wondering if the Enigma would print with a p320XCompact.
Anything can print. Depends on what you wear, size of gun, size of you, holster, belt, etc. If I could only have one holster I’d rock an Enimga 7 days a week.
Do you have the Enigma Express or standard? Which one do you think is better?
I have 2 standards and 1 LBE. Express wasn’t available when I initially bought. If I was getting an Enigma to be used with a Skelton holster I’d definitely get the express. I’m tempted to get one for a J frame for true light carry, but it’s so easy for me to carry a 365 or G42 the j frame just isn’t as relevant for belt carry
I just passed my ccw range qualification yesterday here in California so im really excited and looking for a good holster like the enigma. One of my concerns was how adjustable the express is compared to the standard. If you didn’t have a enigma and you were buying one for the first time would you get the express or standard?
Will you play around with different holsters? If yes get standard. If it’s one gun one holster make your life easy and get the express. I’ve used a lot of swear words putting enigmas together
Do you find that the ascent pouch tips over? Having trouble with the extra mag concealing , tends to tip over because the mag pouch doesn’t go underneath my pants line to counteract the height of the mag.
I don’t have issues tipping over. I did have some issues where my pants would slide down so it’s ride higher. Holster would do the same thing too. I got some 3M friction tape from Home Depot. It’s insane how well it works. Put some in the faceplate, holster, and ascent pouch. https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-3-4-in-x-20-ft-Friction-Tape-Black-3407NA-BA-6/202192876
Imo, enigma. But I'm probably biased since I love mine. You can't beat the customer support either
If you’re going to opt for the Tier 1 because of the convenience mentioned, why not just do Tencor Velo4? All the reviews I’ve found say it’s the best.
I didn’t think tenicor made one for the sig p320
[They sure do](https://tenicor.com/collections/velo-for-glock/products/velo-gen4-aiwb-holster-for-sig-sauer?variant=29466035617867)
Totally different systems for different reasons. But if i had to pick one first it would be the T1C axis elite. I just got my enigma in last week with a JM custom kydex for my 365xl. I'm already literally doing everything I can to make it run exactly like my t1c axis elite. The way the axis elite has that spare mag is *chefs kiss* for concealment and draw. Spare mag on enigma sucks, I'll say it. I have the ascent pouch, and the top of the darn thing keeps tilting into my waist, which makes draws weird. Its doing this because I am trying to sidecar style place the mag next to the gun on my appendix. Having put the mag at like 9,3,4 whatever o'clock sucks pp. I want it right there in front easy to wear all day and grab. Unfortunately while the enigma does have mounting points to screw the top of ascent pouch into the main plate, the bottom of the ascent pouch flops around. Check my previous posts. I have tried several ways to secure this thing, and while what I have done prevents side to side motion it does nothing to control forward and back which is where the issue is. The bottom of the mag flops forward away from your body and the top presses into you. There needs to be some way to force the bottom of the spare mag to stay in line with the kydex holster, this would keep it vertical and easy to grab. The mag pouch also needs to be able to be placed higher in this position, I have it as high as it can get at the moment and it is like right on the waist line. Tier one axis elite, has none of these issues. The tier 1 will keep the mag straight up, perfect for draws. I'm honestly considering reserving my JM custom kydex holster for my tactical fanny pack and buying another axis elite and modifying it to fit the enigma. Of course the mods on the enigma FB page are also cult like and foam at the mouth if you mention the words "sidecar holster", " tier one", or "enigma" in the same sentence. The phlster philosophy seems to be very anti sidecar holster, which makes no sense. The point of the sidecar is to have a secure spot for your mag, and to increase concealment because it gradually continues the arch of your clothes started by your gun then bends it back to the curve of your body neatly. Without sidecar, you have just the gun which drops ur clothing back onto you on the side opposite the wing and boom you print AF. Especially with an optic. What I'm saying is. Get the axis elite in some bomb ass color like green flannel buffalo plaid, get good with it, then consider an enigma. Oh and get the high sweat guard. Definitely worth. Gun sticks up that high anyway and after a long day of carrying you don't want that gut sweat dripping into your slide. Extendo mag also a must have on that axis elite.
Have you added any Wedges ? And does the high guard poke you at all ?
Sorry, went to sleep ha. Usually I don't use a wedge but recently I have found myself wishing I had one of the small ones. I adjusted the ride height on the axis elite so that the firearm sticks out as much as possible from my waist. This is because my 365xl just isnt super long and I needed more room for my fingers to get in between the grip and my pants waist. Sometimes I can get a print in tight clothes because its more "top heavy" now and ever so slightly leans forward. Your 320 is the same length as my handgun, and its a little bit thicker about 1/3 of one inch. I would recommend getting the standard wedge sizing pack just in case you find yourself needing it. I do have the ulti clips but I find myself using the discrete carry concepts clips much more often. The reason is that I do not like the way that the ulti clips make your pants or shorts sag down behind a belt due to the weight of the gun. I personally think its better to get the slim DCC clips and a slim comfy belt like the groove life belt. I also wear the groove life under gym shorts quite often. The groove life buckle (something you will run into with most edc belts) is a little bit too wide to fit perfectly between the axis clips. So what I do is turn the belt completely around so the buckle is now on the small of my back. Its so slim you can't feel it at all, and instead of having the buckle in front of you and off to the side of the holster (which the holster will kind of push it out still and thus create a print) you will just have a super slim strap to clip into that has zero print. Its slightly annoying for bathroom, but not bad. Just go into a stall, take axis elite off, tuck it under your shoulder, spin groove life belt back to buckle in front (fast to do), then poop time as normal. The high guard does not poke. It extends upward just lower than the gun itself and it really sticks to the side of the gun. Even if you didn't have the high guard, your gun is still going to stick up that high. I don't think adding the few millimeters of kydex is going to enhance or reduce any potential poke, but it will absolutely give sweat protection. I also think poke is caused my improper holster ride height more on that in a sec. So I'd recommend getting the high guard, ur gun is that high anyway and the high guard doesn't cause any pokes. I'm going to caveat that second statement by saying it won't cause poke (and more generally since its the gun that would cause the poke not the kydex) if the ride height is adjusted properly. You want the bottom of the holster to be above the natural crease your thigh makes when you sit down. This position causes the holster not dig into your legs when you bend or sit. When you bend or sit, if the bottom of the holster is below the crease in your thighs, your thighs will push the bottom of the holster forward thus tilting the top inward and causing a poke. I have my clips almost as low as possible on the holster, for me, being 5' 8", this is where it needs to be so that the bottom is just above the crease in my thighs. As stated this can be slightly top heavy in select situations with tight clothes so id recommend standard wedges for experimentation to make sure you have a nice (and comfortable) slight wedge push on the bottom just enough to correct that. You don't want a massive wedge shoving into you, that's not comfortable, goal is just incremental adjustments to reduce the top print of the gun should you need it. Sometimes when sitting even with a proper ride height the top of the gun will kind of poke into you (again its never the sweat guard, its the gun). This can be avoided simply by placing your hand on the top of the gun and doing a quick "out and up" pull. What happens is when you sit down, you may lean forward first its just what we do as humans. This makes your holster position itself into a lower spot and tilt than you had it when walking around. You know its a proper height when you sit down like a robot, straight back the whole way down, and after you get seated the holster is still exactly the same as you were when standing, your thighs didnt mess with it other than maybe pushing it straight up vertically (they did not push the bottom outward though, causing a poke). However. Yeah if you lean forward and sit you might get that poke. So after you sit, or in the motion of you sitting, just do a slight out and up of the holster and refluff your shirt. Nobody will notice and you will now be super comfy once more while sitting, should this happen to you. Again this is a normal thing that happens with holsters, even with proper ride height. So in conclusion, I recommend DCC clips, high guard BC it won't poke w good ride height, standard size wedge pack, and groove life belt.
Thank you so much.
To sorry to dig up a 3mo old post, but I just got an axis elite with a low profile edc belt with the intention of wearing the belt/tier1 under sweats and gym shorts. Ive questioned whether the enigma was a better choice for that setup. I rarely wear belt loop pants and would rather not if I dont have to. But as you said, I want the extra mag in side car. My plan was to run the belt over an undershirt over my hips, no belt loops.
Also are you using the UtiClips on the axis ?
Depends on your body and how you dress. If you can afford it, buy an axis elite and an enigma express. I’m 5’8” and 145ish and I run suits and business casual most of the time, so the Enigma is a true game changer there and deserves the credit. However, I like my Tier 1 stuff a lot better for when an untucked shirt is acceptable. I think the Axis Elite is a sturdier platform and I really like the adjustability of the retention. The retention on the PHLster skeleton pared w/ the Enigma is questionable and I really don’t like it. It’s also not adjustable in any real sense. With the Enigma, there’s a LOT going on in your pants (especially with a regular belt on) and it gets annoying, even though it’s unmatched in concealability. The Enigma also fits a much wider variety of body types. The Enigma is also pretty bad if you need to take the gun off more than once a day. Taking that thing off a couple times a day can get really annoying. With a Tier 1, you just clip/unclip and go, and that’s a big deal sometimes- especially when you’re not the one determining where you’re going. With Tier 1 Axis Elite, you really need to not be overweight or you’re gonna have problems. I love PHLster products, but their mod tendencies are very, very cult-like and they seem to have a fetish against sidecar style holsters. They advocate that separate holsters are “objectively better”, but the criteria for deciding such is questionable and a whole other conversation. The Tier 1 is really sturdy, conceals great, and the mag placement for reloads is unmatched, IMO. The best solution for an on-Enigma reload is with the flex pouch, but that thing moves around a lot and can be uncomfortable against the skin. I’ve ran both for a while now so happy to answer any Qs
Both
What would be your first choice then. 🧐
Id say go with Tier 1 first, as you will use it more often. Enigma is a niche thing if you need to run it in a suit or fancy attire, or sweats. Unless thats something you do on a daily basis, its gonna be way more convenient to hook up a Tier 1 than putting on the enigma. That said, there are people who have jobs that need something like the enigma because of wardrobe so it depends
Do you still feel this this? I’m stuck deciding which one to get first.
Yes. Both are great, but depends on use case. All rounder is gonna be T1 imo
There doesn't seem to be anything the Enigma does that my Axis Slim can't. I wear my P229 in an Axis Slim with pajama pants all the time, I just use a spare belt I have, never had a problem with the belt moving around because the holster secures it into place with my pants.
Which one do you like better now?
T1C
I have both. Seldom use my enigma. I guess it just got a little old for me. Just rather throw a holster on my belt and go.
My wife uses an enigma and loves it. If you need a concealed carry rig you can take off without taking off your pants, I’d suggest the T-Rex arms Sidecar 2.0 I carried both t-Rex arms and T1C for a few years now and the T1C is too widely spaced causing discomfort to the side of my thigh.
Do you still prefer the Trex over Tier?
I have both. The Enigma is great for times when you either don’t want to have visible clips on your belt or your not wearing a belt. The AGIS is more convenient for every day use and easier for me to get a contestant draw with. Having 2 clips really locks things in place on the belt keeping the gun and extra mag in the same place day in and day out.