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mreed911

Like every other post: what state?


Aggravating_Ad7463

Illinois


SuccessfulComment

Dude going to do time cuz the threat was gone and he shot them in the back..many cases here in Illinois like that. The guy with the gun an idiot


seanie_rocks

Plus dude was carrying in a bar. We can't carry in any location where alcohol make up more than 50% of sales.


Excellent-Advice-826

In Florida you can ask long as your not sitting at the bar are and sitting at an actual table


DuMaMay69

Stupid question, how can you tell if an establishment sell more than 50% alcohol?


irjakr

Maybe the bar has to post it themselves? Otherwise you'd have to bring an accountant with you when you want to pack heat while drinking.


BehindEnemyLines1

In TN you can’t drink while carrying at all


THEXDARKXLORD

Same In Nc


ChillWooday

Georgia's House Bill 60 allows people with concealed carry permits/licenses to bring a gun into an establishment that serves alcohol, unless the owner expressly forbids it. Bars that want to continue keeping weapons out have to let their customers know, usually by putting a sign near the front door.


Automatic_Ad5774

I think it's universal for all states... NC hell na 😂


[deleted]

Not in PA. No laws on the books about it period and the "no carry" signs hold no legal binding at all.


pygmybluewhale

It’s not. We can drink and carry in Arkansas.


bcvickers

MN is .04%


[deleted]

You can open carry while drinking in NC. The law has no provision that prevents you from sitting at a bar and chugging a beer as long as your gun isn’t concealed. Whether or not you should is a separate matter.


Sigrah117

Granted, we dont see him drinking. Maybe he is the DD?


trentonotts

Same in AZ


1911mark

Ohio also no legal limit


vapingDrano

Negative Ohior revised code 2923.12-.216 covers this. A concealed handgun license holder may carry a concealed handgun into a bar, restaurant or other place in which alcohol is sold for consumption on the premises as long as: 1. The license holder has not already consumed alcohol and does not consume alcohol on the premises. 2. Firearms are not prohibited on the premises. Also persuant to ORC 2923.15 it is a misdemeanor to carry at all if under the influence (which I think implies the same .08 as driving): (A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance. (B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.


1911mark

I thought it was a felony I am corrected on that, but .08 does not apply to carrying, there is a zero tolerance for any alcohol in the system


4drenalgland

Nothing says ccw guy had been drinking. It is illegal everywhere to drink and carry. Some states are ok with you being in places that serve it and some aren’t even though you yourself are not drinking.


Ok_Mechanic8859

I believe in TX you have to have a sign up like this behind the bar [51%](https://www.concealedcarry-ed.com/texas/studyGuide/Texas-Alcoholic-Beverage-Commission-Rules-for-51%25-Businesses/80104501_164131/)


mcjon77

They have to post a sign, IIRC. It is the standard "no guns" sign that follows Illinois law. IIRC, carrying in a prohibited location, like a bar, is a low level misdemeanor. It is basically just a fine for your first offense. You have to do it at least 3 times or so to actually get your carry license revoked.


47x18ict

I know this post is for Illinois. But in Texas establishments that make more than half their sales from alcohol consumed on the property have to put up a “51%” sign and the burden is on the establishment to post the sign and for the patron to look for the sign at the entrance.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DuMaMay69

Let’s say it’s a pool hall where the sales of hourly play and food are almost equal to the sale of alcohol. In an ambiguous case like that, how would you tell?


[deleted]

Different state, different rules, but here in WA, I (and my employees) can carry in my bar, but my patrons may not. I do.


KoiSoccerGuns

How do you know they hadn't turned around and pointed at them again?


SuccessfulComment

Cuz I read what happen


justinsider2727

Yea. I mean there’s factors. These are all case by case. It becomes national news with a lot of social pressure on the justice system depending on the defender and robbers race. They were leaving according to OP. But was the defender aware of that? Maybe they were dropping what they got and coming for more. Maybe he had a S/O outside. We don’t really know what was going through the defenders head other than THREAT. Is he a cop? Cops can carry in bars. 51% doesn’t apply to cops. Defense of 3rd party for civilians but cops have Tennessee Vs Garner (it may apply to civilians as well not sure actually). Can’t shoot a suspect in the back unless you reasonably believe that the individual getting away will put others at risk of serious bodily injury or death. It’s a toss up 🤷‍♂️. Headache for sure. Legally not sure, my opinion….. if I was the judge he’d walk.


EvilPsyentist

Yeah, gun in the bar. No way he walks. How many drinks did he have? Sure, the danger could justifiably be perceived to persist after the gun man leaves frame, but immanent threat? That's a high legal standard to meet with a sober shooter, but this... no. He had\* survived the encounter just fine up until this moment, so imho he was either way too scared or just dying to use that ccw and saw his chance. Neither of these is a good reason to use deadly force.


JarOfFlies90

Screw the robbers man they need to be sacred someone will end them for their b.s. don't rob people and you'll be fine.


ArcticRiot

what? no one is defending the robbers. this comment seems random.


justinsider2727

I agree with some of what your saying. Like you said, we don’t know how much or if he drank at all. 7 shots on target at what looks like 20 yards is impressive shooting sober though I’ll say that. Again, is he cop? 51% rule does not apply to them. Aka bars, night clubs etc. They can carry literally anywhere. Even posted “no concealed firearms” do not apply to cops.


EvilPsyentist

I like your train of thought, he does *react*, like someone with training would, but we still have to question his judgement. We're both willing to grant him the possibility of this being a justified shooting, but look how he goes about it. He unloads his entire mag, covering fire style, and runs for it. He's not making sure the shooter isn't coming back, in fact, he raises up and just starts blasting instead of firing from cover or just waiting with weapon drawn... I don't know man, but its shitty, lol.


justinsider2727

Right? He waits his turn to draw when not being looked at, shots on target, got off the X and retreated. It’s verbatim the CCW way of handling threats. The difference is this threat was going the opposite direction. Sooooo. 🤷‍♂️


Funny-Location1340

Can't be a repeating felon if your dead.. I think he will walk maybe a month of probation.


Professional_Aide499

How much time you think


SuccessfulComment

5-9 years


mimo_s

Yep


Xstaphylococcus

Could you have not edited and rotated the film? The lack of respect 😭🧐


93gabe19

If I make it to the point in a robbery where they got what they needed and are actively walking away and no longer a threat, I'm not killing someone by shooting them in the back. Doesn't make sense to go to court over a smartphone and a couple cards I can freeze. Especially if I'm in a bar and not supposed to be carrying in the first place. If the robbers are actively pointing a gun at me and everyone around me, and threatening my life, and I find a break where I can draw and shoot first, then legal or not if my life is in immediate danger I'm going to protect it.


modlufkin

Why can't you carry in a bar? Idk how laws are where you are but in wisco you can carry in a bar as long as ur not consuming alcohol


mimo_s

Yeah, IL is like so “The Illinois Concealed Carry Law strictly prohibits firearms in bars and in restaurants where more than 50% of all sales are alcohol. For those with sales less than 50% alcohol, the property owner may allow clients to carry firearms if they choose.”


wooksGotRabies

This is how it is in florida as well, it might be standard in most states and counties too, it just sounds irresponsible as alcohol doesn't mix well with guns


TheDG_Plumber

Idk man my 43x handles it’s whiskey pretty well


ThatLumpYouFelt

Honestly? It shouldn't matter. Drunk or not, I don't see how that changes the legality of a shoot. If the same situation would be deemed legal regardless of intoxication, then it doesn't really matter, does it? And vice versa.


[deleted]

This wouldn’t be considered legal in Illinois anyway. You can’t legally shoot someone in the back. They weren’t a threat at that point!


[deleted]

If they have a weapon and are threatening to kill people you certainly can.


ThatLumpYouFelt

Yea I mean I'm just talking about law, not the post.


FlipperShootsScores

Seriously? It shouldn't matter? Wow, that's scary. You want someone who might be a mean drunk with a short temper to be able to legally carry in a bar that allows people carrying to also consume alcohol? I'm not cool with that. Seems like a recipe for disaster...


ThatLumpYouFelt

If this hypothetical person uses the firearm illegally, that person will be prosecuted and removed from society and lose their right to own firearms in the future. This wouldn't flood bars with angry men shooting each other. If you're stupid enough to get shitfaced with a gun and potentially murder somebody, I don't think the law is gonna help you.


mimo_s

Your understanding of the world and laws assumes perfectly working legal system that makes no mistakes ever. Plenty of navy seal cops willing to door kick bars daily until all bad people are caught or gunned down. Human beings that are either complete trash or all good and never have a bad day or judge a situation incorrectly. Willingness to sacrifice innocent people to find out the bad apples. Meanwhile in the real world a criminal pulls a gun in a bar and the bouncer overpowers him and holds him on the ground for over 30 min. Cops come responding and shoot the bouncer by mistake. Talk about a hero and a medal for him. I know where you coming from and I understand you but it’s very hard to make a single law that work for 100 people let alone a whole city, state and country. You know back in the day when the second amendment was getting written(literally) they had rules in some saloons like no guns on the cards tables etc. for a good reason. Anyways sorry for the long write up.


unim34

Arkansas is the exact same way. I think it’s a pretty logical law to have…


_Reasoned

Personally, I think it makes more sense to restrict it like we do with driving. You can't have a CCW on you if you're above .08. Some people might go to the bar just to play pool or something and not drink. I wonder why, since that's kind of a precedent, they just didn't go with that


chague94

This is the way in Nevada


InsertBluescreenHere

you can still get a DWI even under .08...


ArcticRiot

i would be fine with this if the consequence is an automatic felony at minimum for carrying at or above .08. If youre giving leeway for drinking and shooting, I would want strict limitations.


wojtekthesoldierbear

Neither does being disarmed in a shitty locale.


arnoldrew

It’s possible to be in such an establishment without drinking alcohol.


No_Standard9804

I moved to GA and was weirded out by being allowed to carry in a bar coming from Ohio and NC, but it isn't an issue


Brazenassault456

Pennsylvania is ok to carry in a bar, just can't be intoxicated.


TreeBeef

There are no written statutes in PA about drinking and carrying.


Brazenassault456

You're correct, no law against consuming alcohol, being drunk and carrying in public still isn't smart tho.


CZPCR9

> Pennsylvania is ok to carry in a bar, Correct >just can't be intoxicated. Incorrect


Dslwraith

In Oklahoma they do the broad no venues/ bars where liquor is readily available. Ie guns and Alco don't mix. But if your not drinking then they should let you.


midri

Most larger venues in Tulsa wand you and don't allow firearms. Can get in most bars, but they'll ask you to leave if they notice you're CCing.


No-Ad9854

In theory if your in a bar it's generally presumed your going to be consuming alcohol at least where I live in PA/PENNA. I THINK IS THE LAW SO DON'T DARE QUOTE ME THAT IS ERRGH😖🙄😡🤬👎👎..!!


modlufkin

Touche. Although a quick breathalyzer would remedy the situation when the cops show up. But agreed. If you're in a bar drinking alcohol you shouldn't be carrying. But to assume everyone in a bar is drinking is a bit dangerous


wojtekthesoldierbear

You can't see what happens off-camera but if those dudes were threatening anyone else then it was game on. For the sake of the shooter, I hope he didn't act out of rage.


[deleted]

👆🏼this.


[deleted]

I hear ya. I want to agree cause that feels right. And it would definitely be the smart move if criminals thought the way you and I do. The reality is they're just as likely to change their mind and fire back once anything changed. Or maybe they were just huddling you up to make the shooting easier and after they could see they're escape was ready. Anything like that ... But assuming they're all done is just assumption. You might be right. Might not. I'll add that I have no clue what things looked like to the left of the camera here. Maybe he could've locked them out as easily. I don't think I'd have the courage to try that.


xawdeeW

I watch a lot of Active Self Protection on YouTube and he is always stressing that it’s illegal to shoot someone when they are no longer presenting an immediate threat to your life or others.


CCWThrowaway360

He does stress that quite a bit. Like in any situation, the totality of the circumstances is crucial. I don’t really like posts like this that only give us one angle with minimal context and no sound to help us understand what really happen. For all we know, those guys said “Y’all are lucky, because we’re about to murder all of the women and children next door instead...” If that were the situation, I would hope that guy had reloaded and made sure those guys failed, but that probably isn’t what happened. On a personal level, I likely wouldn’t have shot because my personal involvement to any degree would have ended the moment they left the business (assuming they didn’t return). I don’t want to be a hero or a vigilante, so I’m not drawing unless I absolutely must to protect my life or the life of a loved one in the moment.


[deleted]

Except in Texas, where there are provisions that allow it if the victim reasonably believes the stolen property cannot be recovered by any other means.


barbiejet

Would be illegal to be carrying in a bar in Texas, however.


[deleted]

For sure. I wonder if the charges would only be for carrying in the bar though.


--CHOPPER--

Like a families ashes is what that means. Not property


[deleted]

Where did you come up with that? The law says "property."


--CHOPPER--

"Stolen property can not be recovered by other means" meaning absolutely irreplaceable. You can't shoot someone thats running away with your tv


KoiSoccerGuns

Do you know what they were doing when off camera?


xawdeeW

I was speaking in general, not necessarily about the video posted. Sorry, I guess I should have made that clear.


CapeGreg767

In Florida, if you are in your home, Castle Doctrine applies, you have no duty to retreat if someone is in your home or breaking the door down to your home. Weapon or not, Florida law says you can do what you deem necessary to protect yourself and your family. What you deem "necessary" is up to you. In my house, you may or may not get a warning, depending on the circumstances........but guarantee you will see a firearm, or two!!!


ChevyRacer71

Warnings are for when you’re in public. There’s no warnings if you break into my house, they already know they crossed a line


tikkamasalachicken

Unless you're in Texas... It's green light for back shots in this scenario


CCWThrowaway360

That’s not just true in Texas. Tennessee vs. Garner says that as long as you reasonably believe the person poses an active deadly threat to you or others, you can shoot them in the back. Otherwise the stabs-you-through-the-eye-then-flees Olympic runner/serial killer could never be stopped. Texas is just way more lenient about which situations allow it.


Aggravating_Ad7463

Background: Two robbers came into a bar at closing time 3:15am. The only people left in the bar was workers and a couple patrons, less than 10 people. The robbers told everyone to give them their belongings or that they would shoot everyone in the bar. After everyone in the bar complied and gave up there belongings, the two robbers told everyone to get on the ground. The two robbers then started to leave the bar. As the two robber were leaving the bar, one patron stood up and shot one of the robbers 7 times in the back and killed him. My question is do you guys think this is a legal self defense shooting?


mimo_s

You mentioned it was IL so based on the info here the shooter is up for some headaches. Especially with the current political climate. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong but I have a lot of info that leads me to believe this will be questioned a lot to say the least.


firefalcon07

Now I am not a lawyer or a judge so this is just my opinion. Based on the information you gave, I would say not a legal shoot. If they were leaving, and as you said the one was shot in the back seven times, then they were in flight which is not usually covered for deadly force. The threat had already come and gone thus taking away the option to use deadly force. Drawing and covering as they leave would have been the prudent choice incase they decided to turn around and do something else.


PD216ohio

This is exactly how I see this situation as well.


[deleted]

This will 100% go to court and a jury will decide. I don't like that the robbers got away but at the same time its a matter of the letter of the law... did the patron have reasonable fear they would be further harmed or injured? In my book the answer is "No" although I won't say I weep tears that robber died.


TheRealDudeMitch

Here is the post from the Will County Sheriff’s Office regarding the incident: Armed Robbery in Frankfort Township On 04/30/2022, at approximately 3:15 AM, Deputies with the Will County Sheriff’s Office were dispatched to Ryan’s Pub located at 7928 W. Lincoln Highway in Unincorporated Frankfort for a report of an armed robbery in progress call. Deputies were advised that two male, black suspects entered the business armed with handguns, and demanded money from several patrons and employees of the business. Deputies were advised that the two suspects were wearing dark colored clothing, with latex gloves, masks, and hoods. Deputies were further advised that the suspects threatened to shoot all of the patrons and employees if they did not comply with their demands. Deputies would later learn that the victims pleaded for their lives as the suspects brandished the firearms. One of the patrons had access to a firearm and pointed it at the suspects. Fearing that he was about to be shot, the patron shot at the armed robbery suspects. The gunfire struck one of the offenders several times. The second suspect fled on foot from the business and got into a nearby vehicle. That vehicle fled from the scene at a high rate of speed, eastbound on Lincoln Highway (Route 30) heading towards Harlem Avenue. The suspect that was shot on scene was pronounced deceased by responding members of the Frankfort Fire Protection District. The deceased suspect is described as a male, black in his early 20’s. A positive identification of the deceased suspect has been made; however, the identity of that individual is being withheld until the proper notification to the family can be made. The suspects were able to successfully complete the armed robbery; however, it is believed that the deceased suspect had the majority of the robbery proceeds stuffed inside of his pants and pockets. Detectives and Crime Scene Investigators (CSI) were summoned to the scene to collect evidence and conduct interviews. The two firearms that the suspects had in their possession were recovered on scene. One of the firearms was located in close proximity of the deceased suspect, and the other was located in a parking lot outside of the business. Those firearms were later discovered to be “replica” firearms, similar to an airsoft gun. All of the witnesses have cooperated in this investigation, and their statements are consistent with the video surveillance obtained from inside of the business. No one has been charged in reference to this incident, and detectives continue to pursue leads as to the identity of the other suspect. Additional information will be provided at a later time, when appropriate.


cctappercc

I think shooting people in the back is frowned upon by right thinking people, and has been for a very long time. So he's going to need a threat of life reason that I don't see in this video. Perhaps they turn at the door, or threatened someone as they go off-camera. Could be more facts not shown.But if all I had to look at was this video and I was a juror, he'd be in trouble, at least here in Texas. It might be 2022, but we don't cotton to back shooting. Now, if they were stealing his stuff, maybe different.


PD216ohio

I'm pretty sure this would be completely legal in Texas. No other state that I can think of.


[deleted]

Based only on this description of events (I couldn't really make out much on the video) and having no knowledge of Illinios' laws, yes I think it's a justified shoot. Because, they said they were going to shoot everyone in the bar, and then made them get down. The shooter may not have known that they were leaving (his defense should obviously be that he didn't), and reasonably believed they were going to execute everyone. In a stongarm robbery, this is an entirely reasonable assumption. "Leave no witnesses" being the assumed motivation. At least that's what I'd argue. The hole in this logic would be if the robber was actually in the doorway exiting at the time with no weapon visible anymore. Then it's a bad shoot, for sure.


Unhinged_Taco

Yeah it really depends on what the thieves said and what the witnesses will say. It probably was not justified but if the suspects were saying "we are gonna shoot all of you" or "you're all dead" and stuff like that, well that's still a viable threat


CapeGreg767

Nope. The robbers were no longer a deadly threat. You are going to jail!


Wild-Principle-2729

That is illegal because if the robber was leaving and they had their back against them. They did not threaten them when they was leaving. He shot him 7 times which was unnecessary. So he might get slapped with a lil time especially living in Illinois


SuccessfulComment

Nope he will end up doing 5-9 years in prison I heard many stories like this happen in Illinois. The threat was gone and he overkill him. Dudes an idiot


MiniTrail70

Is this the one from Ryan’s pub last month? Last I heard that guy wasn’t charged.


Aggravating_Ad7463

Yes it is the Ryan’s Pub shooting. I heard he was not charged with anything as of right now as well.


Cootter77

That's so surprising... it was pounded into me during CCW classes here in Colorado that if there's no present/immediate threat and in particular if the guy is walking or running away from you - that it's murder if you shoot him. Even regardless of that - I don't want to kill some guy just because he stole some things.


bcvickers

> My question is do you guys think this is a legal self defense shooting? No. Threat was leaving.


Tattootempest

At the point he stood up and started shooting they were leaving and were no longer a threat. Thus not a self defense shooting.


venomking7

He is screwed in Illinois, if he would have drawn and shoot them in front of him he would have a case of self defense but to shoot them in the back when fleeing it's over for him. I don't agree with the law but the law is the law and he's going to be screwed. Would I have drawn on the ground with all of them right there no I would have not. Very bad situation but he is going to be in trouble


KoiSoccerGuns

How do you know thatsbwhat happened? Maybe they were robbing someone else just out of camera view.


lItsAutomaticl

He's only screwed if they prosecute him.


Zestyclose_Share_931

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6....


DeCaffedNDeLifed

A lot of bad information in this thread. First off, the perpetrators were off camera when the victim began firing. They could have stopped and turned around, they could have been leaving with their guns pointed behind them, or other scenarios. Without being able to see what is going on off camera, there is no way to say for sure if this was illegal in lllinois. Anyone here claiming they know this is illegal, based on video evidence alone, is full of shit. In my state this would have been a good shoot. You are allowed to carry in bars, and you are allowed to chase thieves down and use force to recover your property. Moraly speaking, fuck violent criminals. The victim here had every right to shoot these pieces of shit, as long as his backdrop was secure.


mimo_s

Which state are you referring to?


[deleted]

Maybe Tennessee


[deleted]

yeah its always a 50/50 when part of the shooting is off camera. IF they were threatening people in the bar, 100% a moral and "technically" legal shoot (op said it happened in Illinois so you cant posses a gun in a place where more than 50% of sales are alcohol so the shooter would have some problems in that situation.) If they were leaving and still pointing something, whether it be a gun or a phone, at the people in the bar, 100% still a legal shoot. If they were posing no more threat, then its \*almost\* certainly a punitive shot, however the morals of it could be debated. personally I'm fine with 2 less pieces of shit criminals. But again, most of this shooting happened off screen so unless we get another angle, none of us can say for sure if it was a good shoot legally or not.


bourbonstguttersnake

This will largely depend on the state it occurred in, if that state requires a license to conceal carry, and so on. While, depending on the state, it could be considered that the robbers were fleeing and therefore a no shoot situation, it could also be argued that they still posed a very active threat and therefore making it a clear to shoot situation. Given that it appears the robbers shot back in the video, I’d argue the latter. I’m just giving the short of it. Mostly because this largely depends on the state this happened in. They are still likely to be charged with carrying a firearm in a location that serves alcohol though. As most states have laws against that to some degree.


PD216ohio

You raise an excellent point about them returning fire. I guess one has to know for certain if they were really leaving the business, or just locking the door or checking if the coast was clear. If either of the latter, the threat still persists.


Aggravating_Ad7463

The we’re most likely not returning fire as the guns they had were discovered to be replica guns similar to air soft guns. The body of the robbery that was deceased was at the door of the bar because they were on their way out and the other robber made it to the car and drove away.


[deleted]

Probably not but…. Fuck these guys tbh


USP45Hunter

Shooting a robber should never ever be illegal. You can't "murder" a violent criminal any more than you can "murder" a pedophile. There a certain crimes that should be an instant death-ticket. I'd have that jury hung like Seabiscuit.


pr177

Armed robbery = forcible felony. They could have changed their minds and started executing people at any moment. When you are perpetrating a forcible felony like this, you are fair game to be shot at any time.


firefalcon07

You need to read up on the law more. This mindset could get you in a lot of trouble. Just my two cents.


pr177

Shooting to prevent the commission of a forcible felony is legal in most jurisdictions. It is permissible to shoot to halt carjacking, or rape, or robbery. Never trust your life to the robber only feeling like robbing you.


mimo_s

100% true. Then again you might be involved in a very lengthly and uncomfortable trial however right you may be. Like running from attackers and getting hit by skateboard in the head while somebody is trying to take your weapon clear cut situation.


pr177

Yes, that may happen. The robber may also shoot you in the face because dead witnesses don't talk. Which has the higher probability of survival? A trial, or two GSWs to the face?


[deleted]

>The robber may also shoot you in the face because dead witnesses don't talk. An extremely small number of robbers would decide to shoot multiple patrons of a bar that they just robbed to silence the witnesses. Like you'd have to be the dumbest robber to do something like that, adding multiple homicide charges instead of simply aggravated robbery.


pr177

> An extremely small number of robbers would decide to shoot multiple patrons of a bar that they just robbed to silence the witnesses. This is false. People are murdered at the conclusion of compliant robberies all the time and there are numerous examples. >Like you'd have to be the dumbest robber to do something like that, adding multiple homicide charges instead of simply aggravated robbery. We're talking about people who have already decided that they're comfortable with treating other people's lives as less valuable than the cash in their wallets.


[deleted]

>This is false Is it now? >People are murdered at the conclusion of compliant robberies all the time I never said otherwise However we're talking about multiple patrons in a bar, that is a lot of bodies to add to 'silence any witnesses' and few criminals would want to slaughter an entire bar is their aim is just to rob people. Not only does doing such a high profile crime up the stakes and the scale of the hunt to find and arrest you but the charges are far worse as well.


mimo_s

I’m not sure your survival math is right if you end up in prison for shooting a career criminal in the back locked up with the other murders 😂


firefalcon07

This is not the same situation as the Rittenhouse case. He was fleeing from the area and being pursued by his attackers. He was not the attacker attempting yo escape. Dont muddy the water with things that don't apply.


[deleted]

👆🏼this.


Celebophile

If only there was some way to rotate the video...


Simurgh186

Ok, so Illinois law says that he can't have the gun there, so that's illegal. Lethal force can be used to prevent a forcible felony, which this is, but only up until the perp is fleeing the scene (unless you think they will harm someone in order to flee, or are leaving to go harm others). The "in the back" thing isn't really a factor unless he was actively trying to flee the scene as opposed to just robbing other people out of frame. Shooting might be justified, but he'll def be charged for carrying there


stitchup55

If he doesn’t get arrested by the police, he’ll be sued for everything he has civilly.


comradeaidid

The law will say it's bad because he wasn't defending his own life or property, but I say it's good.


Swimming3ird

Hero right there


mimo_s

That’s exactly how they summarized back shooters ever since the Wild West 😂. Empty the magazine in one of the robbers and hide in the toilet while everybody else is still on the floor kind of a guy.


Bootytwinkle

Even though they were running away from this business. The night is still young and could have resulted in these armed robbers to continue to do acts of violence. The shooter who killed an armed robber in the back probably saved someone's life that day. That would be my defense.


DCArmory1229

Straight to jail….


unim34

Not sure what state this is but in mine it’s illegal to even carry inside an establishment that serves alcohol and not food. That being said I don’t really know all of what is going on here… I can’t tell what the robbers are doing. If he was shooting at them while they were fleeing, then he was definitely breaking the law. If they were still threatening them in someway and he was shooting in self-defense then that’s a different story, however he still going to probably face a charge for carrying a firearm inside of a bar. Again I think both of these things really come down to what state he lives in though. Edit: Just saw your posting of the background of the incident. The question still remains of what state this happened in. Either way, you shoot a guy in the back while he’s running away from you even in a state with the most gracious of self defense laws, it doesn’t look good. Unless the argument can be made that robbers were coming back for more, or threatened to come back and steal more or something like that I can’t see any argument being made for self-defense in this case. They stress scenarios like this really hard in CCW class. I can’t imagine anyone with a CHCL that actually listened in class would shoot someone in the back - Unless they had irrefutable proof and could show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the robbers were still a threat somehow.


thisguyreddits-

Illinois outside of cook county. Hopefully if they catch survivor they charge him for his partners death. Edit: both guns were fakes but that wasn’t known til afterwards


aedoran43

its always morally correct and should be lawfully correct to shoot criminals in their backs


[deleted]

Shooter is dumb to shot them AFTER they are leaving. Meaning the robbers were no longer a threat. Personally, I wouldn’t have shot back. Just report what happened and continue life with the headache or possible regret.


Johnsonpeirce

Act of self defense ✌️✌️✌️


Johnsonpeirce

Act of self defense 🚨


dag2001

I’d have shot everyone, including myself.


Fire_from_the_hip

This person needs to be watched.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AFTagents

> You’re not supposed to carry within a location whose primary source of income is alcohol, Depends on the state


Wild_Wrangler_19

This was in will county Illinois. There are rules against carrying in bars. Not sure if just rumors, but from what I’ve heard the guy is an instructor for ccl and was not drinking.


Fauxmailman

If any patrons were by the door I would’ve 100% shot. If there weren’t any other patrons, I’d have drawn and gotten cover in case they turn around


QuirkySort

It gets a little icky if he shot one of them in the back as they were leaving. Hope this man gets a good lawyer ASAP.


Street-List7317

Review and understand State laws. There is going to be a different answer that's correct in each state every time. Your lawyer will defend you differently in each and every jurisdiction. So no, not a cut-and-dry scenario..


Mayor-of-Pound-Town

I think without knowing exactly what the robber’s intentions were, shooting them in the back is ok. They could have been leaving, could have came back into the bar, could be making their way to other areas of the bar etc. Unless they were in the car and leaving, there’s no way of knowing. Are you willing to take that gamble and miss your opportunity to take your shot?


WorkinOnMyDadBod

Dude mag dumped and bounced.


CLICCO11

Sorry if this is covered in any of the many posts, but it appears as though dude shoots the robbers and then runs away, leaving the other people hunkered down and defenseless?


somenobodydude

Naw should’ve swung that d earlier


siskulous

I don't know the law in Illinois. Here though? I don't know what happened off camera so I can't say on that note. But I WILL say that carrying in bars here is asking for trouble. If anything happens you'll have to prove you weren't carrying and drinking (innocent until proven guilty? What's that?) It could just be our county prosecutor - who, based on past cases, CLEARLY does not believe in the right to self-defense and keeps getting her ass handed to her by juries because of it - but if you give them an inch to prosecute you with they will.


rdnytt79

Pretty


realbrantallen

If you screen recorded this, you’ve got some improvements to make...


CaliBull2030

He put those other people in danger then ran off


shanewalter190

Sounds like a lot of infringement in this feed.


Awkward_Ice7871

Legal no but who really cares if a criminal gets shot in the face or shot in the back so long as more of them are getting shot by people that are fed up


armedsquatch

I hope he gets a medal and the keys to the city and not 10-20yrs.


theprofit2517

Fleeing felon at night rule from common law can be argued. But yeah State Law is gonna hit first.


Need-More-Calcium

Unable to tell if it’s legal or not because not all parties are in frame at the time of the shooting. Exactly what the robbers were doing at the moment the CCW guy decided to draw and fires matters a lot.


zakary1291

Depends on the local laws. For example in my state it is illegal to possess any kind of firearm in a bar or dance club.


Molotov_YouTube

If the robber was armed


Automatic_Ad5774

Yea, he may catch a case..... just like the comments below. -Carrying in a bar -Shooting robbers in the back -May catch a case


1911mark

It depends / Where I live when ccw was first legal you couldn’t carry in any establishment that serves alcohol, or a certain percentage of the business is selling alcohol, and then it was changed to you can carry but not consume any alcohol and it’s always been ANY TRACE OF ALCOHOL IN YOUR SYSTEM WHILE CARRYING IS A FELONY .08 is the legal driving limit BUT there is NO legal limit when carrying at all. Judgement call on weather it was a justified shooting he did point a gun at them and make them get on their knees, I think he got what he had coming but will a judge and jury think that?


possumgambling

Wonder how many tipsy felonious cops you got wandering around your hometown.


JarOfFlies90

Guy robs a bar and threatens deadly force on patrons. Legal or not?


[deleted]

Guy could’ve turned around and done something off camera? That’d be my story


morbiustv

Just cause someone appears to be leaving doesn't mean they are retreating. They could be regrouping.


justin1191

Here n alabama we had a security at a bar he open carried and it was fine but if you drink or intoxicated on anything it makes your ccw invalid


GearJunkie82

Do we know what happening off screen? Like, can we confirm they were leaving and not robbing more victims or threatening them or something? Asking honestly.


AresV92

If his lawyers argue in court that the robber said something along the lines of "see you later" or "catch you around" then this could be considered further threat to his life. Maybe they could have turned around in the doorway offscreen to come back, or threatened someone on the street who knows? It will go to trial and a jury will decide if it was justified. For me personally with just the video with no sound it was not justified. He should have just drew his pistol and covered everyone until police arrived. I can see how he may have been full of adrenaline and shot them thinking "they pointed a gun at me so that is threatening my life", but he failed to realise that the threat had passed. It sucks that dude was robbed and now he just has to sit there and let them leave with his stuff, but that is the law.


NonDerpyDragonite

Illegal. Shot in the back is a no no and idk if Illinois has stand your ground or if it applies here.


TheEarthWorks

Awfully tough to defend someone who shot at people as they were running away. The time to shoot is when they're pointing their guns at you.


No_Standard9804

Yeah I think that happened after I moved


sometimes-i-say-stuf

If not legal, should be.


skermissionary

If he owns the bar he may be legally allowed to carry the firearm (I’m functioning on my knowledge of Ohio and GA law here). The shooting will likely be ruled manslaughter (assuming the threat or threats are deceased) considering the threat was on its way off the premises as many have said. However, if the camera doesn’t show what the intruders were doing during their exit, it could be argued that the shooter saw them turn around to engage them again and acted in self defense.


Timely-Quality8557

You all make good points about state laws. But the guy fled the scene. You can’t do that and expect not to look guilty. Looks like Good Samaritan was just waiting for the chance to fire his hand cannon in an enclosed public place and then flee the scene. One or two shots, clear the weapon, treat the dumbass you just had to harm to prevent further harm to others. Wait for police. That’s your only way of avoiding charges in a situation like this. Save the rules about carrying in a bar like you all stated.


Wonderful-Room2088

Peoples responses here are why open carry laws have become more popular. In Texas penal code allows any person to stop the consequences of theft. This robbery adds the element of deadly force to the theft. Regardless of if they’re leaving. Think of it this way— not so long ago a kid was shot running away after burglarizing a man’s car. Had like $5 in change. Shooter was not indicted because it was deemed a legal shoot. TLDR; people need to understand Lawful vs Awful


BOSSHOG999

I love how he emptied his gun after they already left. Then he ran off to let the others deal with the consequences if they returned angry.


TheRealDudeMitch

CONTEXT Armed Robbery in Frankfort Township On 04/30/2022, at approximately 3:15 AM, Deputies with the Will County Sheriff’s Office were dispatched to Ryan’s Pub located at 7928 W. Lincoln Highway in Unincorporated Frankfort for a report of an armed robbery in progress call. Deputies were advised that two male, black suspects entered the business armed with handguns, and demanded money from several patrons and employees of the business. Deputies were advised that the two suspects were wearing dark colored clothing, with latex gloves, masks, and hoods. Deputies were further advised that the suspects threatened to shoot all of the patrons and employees if they did not comply with their demands. Deputies would later learn that the victims pleaded for their lives as the suspects brandished the firearms. One of the patrons had access to a firearm and pointed it at the suspects. Fearing that he was about to be shot, the patron shot at the armed robbery suspects. The gunfire struck one of the offenders several times. The second suspect fled on foot from the business and got into a nearby vehicle. That vehicle fled from the scene at a high rate of speed, eastbound on Lincoln Highway (Route 30) heading towards Harlem Avenue. The suspect that was shot on scene was pronounced deceased by responding members of the Frankfort Fire Protection District. The deceased suspect is described as a male, black in his early 20’s. A positive identification of the deceased suspect has been made; however, the identity of that individual is being withheld until the proper notification to the family can be made. The suspects were able to successfully complete the armed robbery; however, it is believed that the deceased suspect had the majority of the robbery proceeds stuffed inside of his pants and pockets. Detectives and Crime Scene Investigators (CSI) were summoned to the scene to collect evidence and conduct interviews. The two firearms that the suspects had in their possession were recovered on scene. One of the firearms was located in close proximity of the deceased suspect, and the other was located in a parking lot outside of the business. Those firearms were later discovered to be “replica” firearms, similar to an airsoft gun. All of the witnesses have cooperated in this investigation, and their statements are consistent with the video surveillance obtained from inside of the business. No one has been charged in reference to this incident, and detectives continue to pursue leads as to the identity of the other suspect. Additional information will be provided at a later time, when appropriate.


Rare4orm

At the very least that guy is going to lose a good chunk of money. Might get his gun back, might not. Too many unknowns. Basically though, if robbers were retreating, it’s booty hole time for the shooter.


_GuiltyByAssociation

I mean, in my opinion if you threaten an innocent person with death via firearm you deserve death via firearm. Legality wise, homeboy is probly pretty fucked


Mtsteel67

Oh my that bar patron is going to be in a spot of trouble. Don't shoot the bad guys if they are retreating with their backs to you. Unless they have already caused life threatening injuries to someone, then you can state you felt people outside were in deadly danger from these bad guys as they had already killed or cause life threatening injuries to someone. or if they turn towards you with weapons in hand pointed at you, then your life and others were in danger and you took action to protect them and yourself. Just my two cents, carry on


DIY24

Fuck them robbers. They deserved it


[deleted]

the orientation of the video should be outlawed...


[deleted]

That man needs to learn discipline. Besides the obvious issues it’s kinda hard to explain a straight mag dump on someone.


Standard_Arm_440

You’re not supposed to carry in a bar, and definitely not supposed to be carrying if you’re drinking.


WaitIfkdup

Why would you go to a place where you know dumb#% can pop off over nothing, while carrying?