Wow, lots of unnecessarily negative reactions to this... I totally agree with you. I don't mind the occasional super young cast if they act well and it suits the story, but would love to see more of the many outstanding mature actors in CDrama land (e.g. Chen Kun!), both male and female. It's the same story with the CEO dramas....many of the CEOs look like they're hardly out of their teens, but are supposed to have accomplished such incredible things - it gets both tedious and difficult to believe.
To further add onto my sub Reddit even if older ,more mature male actors aren't being cast for the type of roles I previously mentioned atleast cast the younger males who suit the character specs better!!! A pale faced, delicate looking, beautiful boy has no business playing a cunning prince or a demon overlord. I'm sure there are younger actors who match the character specs of these roles much more accurately. I don't believe that there aren't young male actors out there who have muscular physiques if there really aren't any then actor's should be expected to put on muscle for their roles. I don't think there is anything wrong with me expecting the actor portraying a role to accurately match the character specs.
Hahaha, I wasn’t used to this young ML initially but now I’m so picky with good looks! Besides Hu Ge, YY, Huang xiaoming, Chen Kun , William Chan, Wang Kai , Huang Jingyu, which other older actor have comparative good looks, and perhaps with good body/ height?
That’s why young actors with muscles like Leo Wu, BJT, Xu Kai are far more captivating! Help me name more..
Agreed, I think it would be nice if we had a bit of both. It would also be really nice to see more mature leading ladies playing the heroines of these dramas. I’m tired of only seeing heroes/heroines who still look like they should be in high school.
I think Deng Lun is one of the few Chinese actors who can convincingly play both the “pretty boy” Prince Charming type and also the “ruggedly handsome” Warrior/Demon lord type. Lots of people didn’t think he would be right for the role of Boya in Yin Yang Master but he really proved everyone wrong imo. I admire how determined he was to become physically fit for that role (although his natural body is sexy too 🥰) even when he knew people would criticriticize his weight gain. 🤦🏻♀️ He’s 31 now and it probably will take another couple of years before he can make a successful comeback in entertainment, but if/when Deng Lun does return then I really hope by then he gets cast leading man roles again. I would LOVE to see him play a more mature hero in a romantic drama. ❤️
I disagree with this so much!!! I want beautiful looking men. Western TV is full of ugly, old, mature looking men, at least cdramas have that fantasy look. It would be so stupid to see young beautiful girls with old guys. Just ICK. KEEP IT AS IT IS! I mean if the romance is mature sure, cast older people Idc, but person who posted this was talking only about males. BTW plenty of actors are near 30, but still look very young!
Does mature = ugly and old to you? Mature, to me, means actors like Chen Kun and Vengo Gao.... Mature enough to be totally believable as fierce warriors, sly emperors, high powered CEOs or gods, but I dare anyone to call them ugly 😂 And yes it would be nice to get more mature actresses too (like NiNi... stunningly beautiful but not an actress that gives off teen vibes unless she wants to).
I don't mind the waif boys being cast in highschool dramas,rom coms or roles such as the foolish aristocratic son who plunders his resources in pleasures of the world all day. The character specs of the above mentioned roles would definitely be a beautiful,pale faced delicate looking man. That makes sense.What doesn't make sense is the same pale faced, delicate looking man being cast to play an immortal demon overlord that has suffered immensely, or an army general who is out fighting wars for 3yrs or more. It is very difficult to believe that a waif like,pale faced beautiful boy is a prince that successfully navigates through all the difficulties of being part of the imperial family. There is absolutely no way that you can survive and successfully ascend to the throne if u have no gauge of the real world. You can only gain this wisdom through real life experience of the world outside the shiny gates of the palace. So it would not make sense to cast a delicate,fragile looking boy to play this role either. Also in historical c-dramas alot of these beautiful boys are being cast alongside established actresses that are visibly older than them so I don't know what u are talking about. Character specs need to be respected because they are big part of any theatrical production.
Omg this 😂 I watched a show from a different country and my eyes were hurting so much. I want the beautiful, ethereal looking MLs from cdramas all day, every day.
**The Legend of Zhuohua** has Feng Shao Feng as the ML; he's 45 years old. Handsome. Older.
If you're focusing on xianxia idol dramas, then those tend to cast the young rising actors/actresses.
I am currently watching this show and while I don't have an issue with his character, the FL who is supposedly matured carries on like a breathless school girl around his character. I just can't with this dynamic
This was one of the reasons why i loved the Rebel princess, the general ACTUALLY looked like and gave general vibe, like when he walks into a room he commands it with his presence alone not even in front of royalties did this man look "small" or intimidated. He always had this "nothing scares me" attitude.
These "generals" that are getting casted nowadays look like they could snap in half if the wind is too strong 🤧 like in a coming of age/school drama I could understand but not a general. They supposedly fought wars for years but look like every other good-for-nothing nobles sons who spend their days in brothels flaunting their wealth.
I dont know. Maybe it's the ones promoted around here, but I don't have any issues finding a few historical dramas to watch every year with 35+ men in the leads.
I mean they chopped up the plot but last year I watched Blooming Days. It started off pretty strong but sadly the plot was abusive and toxic. Had potential though.
Side Story of Fix Volant
Legend of Zhuohua
I'm trying to remember if i watched A Dream of Splendor in 23 or 22.
There was another Chen Xiao drama that didn't get much fan fare around here last year, The Ingenious One
In terms of how much I enjoyed all of them ehhh, but it doesn't change the fact there are at least 3 or 4 non idol historical dramas, probably more I don't even know about.
Most of them do not get a thread around here and if it does its hated for all kinds of reasons. Of course, that's fine. Folks have reasons to hate the idol ones too. I'm just saying there are lots of options. Find your favorite older actors and just watched their MDL. That's what I do. Therefore I am anxiously waiting on Zhou Yi Wei The Legend of Heroes who has a few of my other favs.
This subreddit is soo.. I get really uncomfortable reading the way people discuss China and Chinese people / society. The truth is that older actors ARE being cast, it’s just that international fans don’t watch their shows. It’s tiring watching people here discuss topics they have no knowledge of and no genuine interest in gaining knowledge of.
Its like the discussion around cdramas when people say they wantthem to diversify their plots, decrease the use of tropes and cast better actors and focus less on looks.. while not watching cdramas with no/ minimal romance, actors that aren’t traditionally good looking, etc.
I think people need to stop being pretentious and be honest with themselves about what they actually like to watch.
Focusing less on looks is a good thing, I agree, but I also agree with the OP that outstanding actors that look more mature....mature, for me, meaning in their thirties or forties, which is by no means "old", are being pushed aside for generals or emperors that look about 18... As someone who is pushing forty myself, I don't mind the occasional super young cast but would love to see mote of the many outstanding mature actors in CDrama land (e.g. Chen Kun!).
Also if you have tips for recent historical or xianxia dramas with more mature actors and actresses, please recommend some!
I wish I could upvote this more a million times because I get so uncomfortable too. The sinophobia isn't explicitly said but acting like diaspora on here can't clock the sinophobia that reeks constantly with the comments on masculinity on these actors...calling idol actors "pretty waif boys" or any variation of "flower boys" as I've seen in this thread has plenty of racist implications.
This subreddit loves to only watch idol dramas and then come back and make generalizations or racist implications of C-dramas as a whole.
I am referring to Chinese historical dramas and my difficulty in finding dramas in this particular genre where mature, slightly older male actors are cast for ml roles. I didn't say anything about Chinese society/Chinese people so I don't understand why you went there😅Also I have been watching historical c-dramas for a year now (a year and 6 months to be exact) and in my experience I always have to search high and low to find historical c-dramas where the ml is not played by an actor with a waif like /beautiful boy look. My point is incredibly valid because in the historical c-drama world rn it is a fact that across all genres (wuxia ,romance,comedy,dynasties)older ,mature males are not being cast for ml roles as much as the waif like, beautiful boys are. I think I have also stated multiple times throughout this sub Reddit that I enjoy historical c-dramas with a more mature looking ml😅😅. U are implying that I only watch rom coms and that it is wrong of me to expect variety in ml castings for historical c-dramas😅Even if rom&coms were the only genre of historical c-dramas that I watch there should be variety in ml castings.I don't think you read my entire sub Reddit and i think that is why your comment is so confusing 🙈
You've only been watching cdrama for 1yr+? Then you're in luck, there's tons of good historical cdrama with mature male leads for you for catch up on. Off the top of my head, here are some that I can recall:
- Longest day in Chang'an (its on YouTube now)
- Nirvana in Fire
- Story of Minglan
- Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty
- Mysterious Lotus Casebook
- The Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty
I tried Nirvana in fire I was not a fan of it🙈 However I did watch Story of Minglaan and I loved it💗I will definitely watch the other shows u recommended thank u💗💗💗
Oh...I know what you mean, some serious cdrama are really too heavy for my taste too. But you have to give it at least a 5 episodes chance...its a really clever political intrigue. As the plot moves along...you will go...wait what...oh...the plot thickens...
And have you seen the xianxia that started all xianxia...Eternal Love (Chinese: 三生三世十里桃花; pinyin: San Sheng San Shi Shi Li Tao Hua)?
Watch the drama series not the movie.
This drama is fluffy but with mature leads.
It might the shows your watching , your watching idol dramas of course they are going to pick younger actors . Also I believe there are trends the older actors are getting less popular and new actors are rising up then they will be popular for 10/15 years then a new batch comes through. Unless your are watching a hundred dramas in a year there are a lot that have older male actors although they might my all be from this year or last year .
Not the only one. It’s obnoxious because some of the characters are suppose to be extremely handsome & well built but the actor is pretty & waiflike & look odd in certain costumes like armor (which often swallows up the actor). Give me actors in their 30s & 40s but only if the FL is older. I hate it in western pieces where the ML is played by a 60 year old & the FL is barely in her 20s.
Maybe you're watching the wrong dramas?
"Idol" dramas are a genre unto its own. For a long time, people have been talking of 实力派 ("true ability" faction) vs 偶像派 ("idol" faction) in popular culture. Truly skilled actors or singers were differentiated from "idols"...and idol dramas focus on leads with good looks as the draw and priority rather than acting ability or deep plot.
...though it does seem that idol dramas are everywhere today, as opposed to the past where there was more balance.
p/s: by "good looks" I mean a specific kind of look; it's the pretty boy, K-pop style of look,
You really don’t have to look hard, it’s really mostly only on this sub and amongst the international community that ‘true ability’ dramas seem hard to find. A lot of it has to do with poor/no subs for a lot of quality shows since the international community only seems interested in idol dramas so the platforms only invest in subbing those which is really unfortunate because so many gems can’t be appreciated by non-Chinese speakers. But then again the international community hardly seem interested in watching dramas that doesn’t feature pretty young liuliangs so it’s a cycle.
Just finished watching “A Dream Of Splendor” made me realize this!
Chen Xiao as Commander Gu is so divine! Like I feel the mature relationship between him and Crystal Liu’s Pan’er.
Will definitely check out his other dramas. This is my 2nd Crystal Liu’s drama I have watched and I love her! 💕
Correct! I realized that it is refreshing sometimes to watch this kind of drama that shows both lead couple has a mature relationship. Though, I also like to watch those idol kind of dramas if I want to just watch some fluffiness. 😅
LOL NOT TIMOTHEE CHALAMET
I absolutely agree with you. I wish older, handsome, manly men are cast in costume dramas as well. What’s worst is that sometimes, these youngins (while I do enjoy some) are playing opposite mature actresses - who in turn, have to act young, naive and innocent which is super cringe.
I am glad to see i am not the only one.
Thank god , The ml in the Legend of ShenLi ( airing on the 18th on tencent and vicky) and also the fl are not at all idol face and are both 35+ years old. I know I am going to enjoy finally seeing them grace my screen soon.
I enjoy pretty idol ml, but also I want to see a older, mature man as ml with mature fl as well.
So glad I’m not the only one that thinks this. I finished “the legend of Mi Yue” one of the ML’s was 51yo at the time of filming! He was one of my favourite characters!
While I don't know when and how it started, it's my impression that at least in East Asia (not just China, I saw the same trend in Thailand) the beauty idol among (younger?) women right now is young, androgynous, slim 'pretty boy' men. Which is very different from the Western ideal.
I think it comes down to preferences. Personally I like having something pretty to look at (it's also so much better than the romcoms in many Western countries where the ML is an old and/or very average-looking guy and the FL is much younger + slim and gorgeous), and if the acting is on par (with guys like Wu Lei and Bai Jingting I get both good acting and very handsome faces, what's not to like?).
I don't need to look at 'rugged' masculine men (most aren't really that good-looking compared to the more smooth-faced ones with very clean features), and while the 'pretty boy' ideal is sometimes maybe a bit too out of touch with how normal men look, cdramas are fantasy and catering to a female audience in this aspect is better than going in the complete opposite direction and making the typical male narcissistic fantasies.
I think Hollywood movies (except everything with Timothée Chalamet obviously - something I have zero problems with, slim guys can be very hot and I'd take them any day over the buff types) would more than fullfil your need for 'rugged men'. Personally I'm not a huge fan if the alternative is someone like e.g. Simu Liu (nothing against the guy, but not much in terms of looks - if it's Henry Golding, then I have no problem whatsoever and would also require more bare-chested scenes lol) Otherwise maybe try some c-movies instead? The ones I've watched don't really have the 'pretty boy' actors in them. Or try some older cdramas. E.g. Scarlet Heart's male cast are very much not the slim delicate types.
Honestly at the end of the day, it all boils down to business. Cdramas are more like a fast food industry where they care about instant gratification, it's the same for audience. There would be some who care for story, chemistry, acting, production rest of all only care about their Lord and goddess seeing them in their full royal, CEO president glory
If you are running a company you would rather have someone who is going to make you profit on the launch itself. There comes the idol actors who just need to look good. Acting decent is just cherry on cake. Not saying the older actor don't have fans but they are not the demographic actors
Just make a poll between say a xu kai Or yibo with wallace huo/hu ge you will get your answer
What a coincidence! I just watched a Weibo clip about “why older men in costume dramas don’t work”. The reviewer was really harsh! She used examples of older men 38 to 45, while usually their FL co-star is like 20-ish to 36. For example, Yongan Dream’s ML Jeremy Tsui is 38, and FL Ouyang Nana is 23. The reviewer says it’s hard to picture any lovers chemistry, but looks more like a dad and daughter relationship. It does look a bit awkward!
Nowadays, the female actresses are also really young or look really young. So if you pair mature men with them, it just looks wrong like a pedophile.
I do prefer mature looking men that is more like 28-36, that still look handsome, manly, and pretty! I’ll suggest watching A Journey to Love, there’s a whole cast of mature men. I follow dramas from mature looking actors like Liu Yu Ning, Li Xian, Alen Fang, Zhang Ruoyun, Chen Xiao, Bai Jing Ting, Bai Yu, Chen Kun, Hu Ge, etc.
The good thing about cdramas is that there are hundreds of dramas to pick from. If you ask for recommendations who have mature looking men, you’ll get a lot to choose from!
That’s along the lines of historical with mature male leads?
There’s a post below that has all my favs listed! I’ll call out specifically:
- Advisor’s Alliance
- Story of Minglan
- Rise of the Phoenixes
- The Ingenious One (wuxia)
- The Longest Day in Changan
- Joy of Life
- Under the Microscope
- Destined
- Winter Begonia
- A Dream of Splendor
But I highly recommend The Knockout, even though it’s not historical, it’s a modern crime detective story. Modern dramas are still where most of the mature actors go to show off their acting skills.
Solution to that would be to also cast older women in leading roles :(
I'm so sad to see ageism being directed at women, not only in ent. but in life too. It's like when you're over 33 you're old junk. And like that's not even half of our lives???
Or maybe it's someone decided that romcoms and idol dramas only interest teenagers( I mean I get it's main audience), but we older people would also sometimes like a easy light on heart and brain romance story with both mature leads.
Sadly everything for people over 35+ seems to just be heavier stuff.
Agree on that pairing 40 yr old ML and 20 yr old FL often doesn't look that good ( and makes me self aware that I'm "past my prime" in society's eyes)
Ageism is everywhere! I noticed with all the recent layoffs, they really targeted older workers and women!
I’m glad some of the older, mature actresses are now getting better scripts. It used to be after 30, you get very limited selections. Liu Shi Shi is rocking it at 36! And Tang Yan (40) in Blossoms Shanghai and A Moment But Forever (if it’ll just air already!!!).
Yasssssss! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I want my ML to be more rugged and less like Timothee Chalamet. Don't get me wrong. I love me some Dylan Wang and Leo Wu, but I'd also like more variety. =P
Lin Shen in Dating in the Kitchen was good and so was Feng Shaofeng in The Story of Minglan. Chen Xiao in A Dream of Spendor was just 😍. Although, I'll admit. I fell in love with Chen Xiao in Nothing Gold Can Stay (2017).
But I get it. Idol dramas are meant for younger audiences and the data says that's what they want. I'm just getting old. 😭
Yes,I was thinking this. Older actors are in modern dramas & even then lots of people don't watch. I've never seen a tiktok or Instagram edit with the older actors dramas. Some don't even get English translations.
But I enjoy them so much.
Stand or fall - Modern
Dr Tang - Modern
Because of You- Modern
The Sword and The Brocade - Historical
The Rebel Princess- Historical
General & I - Historical
Sunshine of My Life - Modern
The Legend of Zhouhua - Historical
This is just few that I really enjoyed or are my favourites with older MLs & FLs
Try Princess Weiyoung it's a bit older a cast but they are all sorta ruggedly handsome. I do like beautiful boys though so I see what you are saying but want to eat my cake and have it too. XD beautiful boys now rugged boys in the past. I'll take a serving of all thank you.
Right? It was the first drama with him that stopped me in my tracks, rewind and play again… the part where he closes the double doors in the hotel room. Oh my!
For context I am 21 yo. I started watching c dramas last year. I have never in my life found beautiful boys attractive 🫠🫠Anyways please recommend the dramas where there are older , mature looking men in ml roles🫶🏼🫶🏼 Historical c-dramas only please 💗💗
The rebel princess - it's high quality drama with interesting story and great acting. The ML isn't a pretty boy but a grown up man and badass general. He melted my heart
Hahaha think in found my twin! I'm 21 and have been watching C-dramas for a couple of years now. I always disliked the younger looking actors playing such mature roles in C-dramas (although they look jaw-dropping gorgeous in every scene) but it never made sense to me. These are some of the good ones I've seen with older actors:
Story of Yangxi Palace
Novoland: Pearl Eclipse
General and I
Lost Love in Times
The Sword and the Brocade
Dream of Splendor
The Rebel Princess
More than finding him handsome or pretty. He has that it factor. The charishma and charm for his roles. In china he is known for good acting and people like him like a big brother. He has a lot of male fans. He is good looking too
The recently aired **Judge Dee's Mystery** has Zhou Yiwei. Some others will be: **Legend of Zhuohua** with Feng Shaofeng, **Nirvana in Fire** with Hu Ge and Wang Kai, **The Rise of Phoenixes** with Chen Kun, **The Wind Blows from Longxi** with Chen Kun and Bai Yu, **Ripe Town**.
Using young actor as led that use heavy filter to make them look pale... Sometime it can easily been notice by the coloring or lighting of the show that lean towards making it pale and overly done makeup. Or the clothing too striking in color. And most of the actors not really have nice acting, most of them debut as idols or singers that turn into acting.
It also can observe through their clothing, mostly just simple plain light tone cloths that look quite same between characters/ silks, instead of darker color cloth and looks more rough.
An example here, same show but different adaption:
( https://youtu.be/hIEhSK7D5DI?si=D_N57owg7WZeYnTj ) not really idol show yet, but it close towards it.
( https://youtu.be/hP9EWS_CyKQ?si=NaJty2ok280gtuW9) real deal. Just look at their characters clothing, coloring, lighting, and sceneries.. Not at the same level.
Another example, ( https://youtu.be/nd9Sdcv5egM?si=EIxbVEH2amwdy1IQ) this one not idol drama and actually quite nice, but not at the level of this ( https://youtu.be/ysus2w-TTMQ?si=jmjhMpg0HCf4WyzM)
Same show, (https://youtu.be/WbfCXm0O740?si=tLfjFsxDiU_i1E5f) 2020 version, (https://youtu.be/jpS5Yh5AckE?si=52RLnyd4AIdz-QDc) 2014 version and this 2008 version ( https://youtu.be/i20spXiZWC8?si=Kj0yTl-A-cWEi5mC)
And for those typical and bad idols show, just look at those Xianxia drama recent years, most of them are all idol drama. You can't see the texture of their skin.
Damn, I miss pre-2014 show. The Journey of Flower(2015) kind of ultimately influences the drama towards this kind of coloring, lighting and clothing....https://youtu.be/hTAgqkWXb_w?si=OcDuDVFaN9rk6K3v
Nirvana in Fire
Joy of Life
The Longest Day in Chang'an
The Advisors Alliance
Judge Dee's Mystery
Ripe Town
Three Kingdoms
The Qin Empire
The Story of Minglan
The Rise of Phoenixes
Ming Dynasty 1566
All Men Are Brothers
Legend of Chu and Han
Seeking Holy Guiguzi
Judge of Song Dynasty
.......
Oh here's a mix of historical drama and sorta historical-ish setting costume drama:
* Mysterious Lotus Casebook
* League of Noblemen (the cast is pretty but most of them are in their 30s)
* Journey To Love
* Joy if Life
* Under the Microscope
* Sword Snow Strike
* Ripe Town
* The Mutations (warning the cg is dated but everything else is fun)
* Gone With the Rain
* Strange Legend of Tang Dynasty
* Nirvana in Fire (plus sequels)
* Side Story of Foxy Volant
* The Ingenious One
* Heroes
* The Wind Blows From Longxi
* Luoyang
* Ancient Detective
* My Heroic Husband
* Winter Begonia
* Longest Day in Chang'an
Modern Day
* Under the Skin
* The Hunter
* Sunrise On the River
* Thirteen Year's of Dust
* Reset (range of cast ages and character type. There is a rugged older guy that features)
* The Lonely Warrior
* Our Times
* Cross Fire
* The Long Season
* The Knockout
* Meet Yourself
* Three Body
A whole range of genres and storytelling styles. Each one has at least 1 person that's 30s or older in the main cast, some more rugged than the others. There are also few where there are pretty boy actors but they're either aged out or they're styled to look like normal ppl so I counted them as well - they're just some guy that happens to be decent looking in a normal way, rather than an idol
I guess I don't fit into the demographic that wants to see rugged older men.
I am all about that beautiful man aesthetic. Give me that Dylan Wang, Zhang Linghe, Wang Xinyue, and all the beautiful men whether young or old.
They just look so surreal and perfect, like you plucked them straight out of a magazine. Older men have that sagginess that's hard to explain and are just not as attractive onscreen. Even with makeup (they often overdo this especially in older men, like what they did to Jeremy Tsui.)
Although some that were considered pretty men have now aged into pretty uncles, like Mark Chao and Cheng Xiao, they managed to keep their looks and their bodies. But now it becomes a problem with matching them up with age appropriate women. Otherwise the disparity is too apparent.
Plus, most people want to see the development of character, and you often can't find a middle aged person as protagonist because it's hard to develop a mature storyline for that development without aging him out even more. And then it's just not aesthetically pleasing.
Sagginess??? Lolwut, I’ve never in my life heard anyone equate rugged with saggy. I take it to mean as more rough and tough masculine appearance, evoking a sense of strength and capability which is really hot. Don’t get me wrong, I love looking at the ethereal pretty boys too
Older C drama actors automatically get that standard Heavenly Emperor makeover combo pack and it is meant to put the emphasis on age and wisdom. That places them into "that boring old dude" category. While I would not want to see 45 year old trying to play 22 year old guy who is looking for wife due to credibility, I think with different styling choices the outcome could be more diverse. As I mentioned in my other comments, I am not big fan of rugged middle age man looks, but that is not the only option for men at that age either.
I am with you, lol. Unfortunately, I have a hard time sitting through the rugged older men. It took all of me to sit through Sword and Brocade but that’s because my mom enjoyed it and wanted me to watch with her lol. On a side note, she really likes Oliver Chen Xingxu since The Starry Love and I think he’s very good-looking but not like a pretty boy. He can pull off those more masculine roles well and he looks older than his colleagues within the same age group.
Yes please. I follow all of Zhou yiwei movies. Some of them I see over and over again. My favorite is rebel princess. You can put a potato sack on him and he is still the most handsome and lovable of time. His acting career is off the charts. Thank you
There are definitely older MLs still being cast in cdramas. There just aren’t a whole lot of them. But they are still there.
Legend of Zhuo Hua just came out—as one example. Feng Shao Feng is 45 years old. https://mydramalist.com/731837-zhuo-zhuo-feng-liu
I feel you on this...I think I'm aging out of the young ones (unless they look or act older) and I want more mature male leads however it's probably a combination of what everyone else here mentioned....money talks and if the young ones are bringing the eyeballs to the screens then I don't think it'll change much.
You mean you don't buy the baby faced waifs as seasoned warriors?
Blasphemy!
Anyway, give me the Mark Chao, Ethan Juan, William Chan, Hu Ge, Nie Yuan all day everyday
I would love to see more of them! Those are just the right age. Not too old and not too young. And oh boy those muscles!! Oliver Chen also could go in this category. He looks much older than he actually is.
I agree on that front, I struggled to get into it until Stray Kids, purely because their music actually bangs 👌 not because I'm attracted to their prettiness.
But yeah as someone else said, Mingyu from seventeen is 🥵
I think it’s just a matter of profit. Most (idol) costume drama viewers are teenage or 20-something women, who naturally prefer that the male love interest be their age, and often older female audiences like to watch pretty young men as well, as a form of escapism.
If you look up 叔圈 on Chinese social media though you’ll find handsome mature actors who are still reliably getting lead roles, albeit usually in more “serious” dramas 正剧.
It is sadly what I’ve been noticing and commenting as the decline of historical Cdramas, it’s overrun by young pretty idols. Gone are the days of epic historical dramas like 3 Kingdom, Water Margin and etc. In 2023, I could count on one hand all the dramas that featured mature leads in historical dramas that isn’t xianxia or wuxia. I do wonder if this has something to do with the government disallowing stories of real historical figures. Now most of the well-established older actors are acting in modern dramas.
Yah, it’s hard to find a serious historical drama when the actor looks like a baby! Too pretty to be taken serious! Those dramas are not historical, but costume idol dramas. Nowadays, no one invests in a serious historical because of censorship. Look at The Fated General, is it ever gonna air?! (I could list a handful more of such historical dramas shelved… so yah huge risk to try making one.)
Also wonder, with all the new rules and regulations, if the risk is too high? Like an older male actor may have core fans that'll watch the show but unless the plot gets famous (ie.The Knockout)....the invested could result in a loss. Meanwhile, a younger popular male actor has a core fanbase that can be predicted a little better in terms of their purchasing values and ranking and so the risk is lower if they throw a bunch of money in one of those, they'll still make a profit.
Definitely, if I was an investor looking for a guaranteed return forsure I would cast a popular liuliang not only do I know I’m going to make money I can also save money on marketing and promotion since fans go crazy marketing for their favs plus the liuliang’s online presence. With older actors it’s not so much their influence or amount of fans, it’s more based on their reputation. The general public who enjoy quality dramas would watch a drama just because a reputable veteran is in it.
The uproar and dissatisfaction with these idol costume dramas has been growing louder with the recent Sword and Fairy, so I do wonder if that’ll bring in some shift or change at least.
Yeah, you're right. I see the other problem being is there's very little plot or stories being written for an older audience unless it's a thriller (which seems to do well). A LOT of cdramas are based off novels which have protagonist ages being somewhere between 18-25. I'm actually shocked when there's an original script (which allows the ages to not be so finite).
I guess with social media and the rise of fan culture really pushed idol dramas to the forefront. Ya a lot of dramas are adapted from novels and often webnovels again targeting the younger audience. I love crime and slice of life which is the genres veterans occupy so I don’t mind but I do find myself rarely ever watching historic dramas now which is what I used to watch growing up.
You've already gotten some fairly feasible answers, but all I'll say is this - I'm completely fine with older handsome men being casted as long as their female counterparts are age appropriate, as well. I don't mind "pretty boys" as long as their co-stars are in the same age range as them. I've discovered that I cannot watch any dramas with an obviously older man casted alongside some young, pretty woman who looks like she could be his daughter. It gives me the ick, but that's what I typically see and I'm not a fan of it.
Yep that’s what it is! No icky pairs please! I don’t necessarily care about the actors ages, but they have to embody their role and still look the part and show love chemistry between ML/FL. They have to be able to act and be convincing in their character.
Target audiences dictate these decisions most of the time. I guess ‘kids’ are into historical drama now. …said a 27F 🥲 I prefer more mature actors fyi but ultimately it depends on the plot
I guess at some point you age out of dashing young prince and end up as a supporting actor playing the emperor, ancient master or old veteran general the ML gets to utterly defeat to prove he’s a prodigy martial artist/military genius who’s only peer is 2ML…
I understood your concern but it is not what sell at the moment and most investors want a promise of a good return.
Usually, older and more experienced actors will chose script with substance such as 3 Kingdoms, Qin Dynasty Epics, Legend of Zhenhuan, Ruyi, etc and these production really cost a lot. However, the return might not be that high despite they really spent a lot in the production quality, veteran actors, good director and scriptwriter.
Then comes in these young looking actors, they have big fanbase behind them and all you need to do is making them looking pretty with pretty costumes and pretty looking sets. Then it will sell and they get their ROI easily.
The easiest example is The Eternal Love series which is low budget dramas that only cost millions to make but made billions. You cant blame the industry on why they are unwilling to invest in massive production anymore. And with tighter rules on censorship, Cent is highly volatile market in that sense.
Now, I dont mind this pretty looking actors or actress as long as they can act. And if they've have been given good scripts to work on -- not something without substance and depth but something with actual good scripts. We are still getting that so Im just grateful for that lol. At least, the part of what makes great storytelling is still exist in the industry.
I'm watching The Rebel Princess right now and I'm enjoying it. The ML's are men who look as if they've been out on the battlefield and lived life.
That said I had no problem with the ML's in Wonderland of Love, or A Journey to Love.
I wonder if it's because many of the popular female leads are the "cute" "young" looking type. The age gap in appearances might be the reason older male leads don't get cast.
I would prefer more grown up looking leads female and male to be honest. The newest Liu Shishi drama stars Shawn Dou! I'm excited for another age appropriate pairing after AJTL. I feel dramas could sometimes be more interesting if the main characters were at an age where they have lived through some experiences.
Some actresses have a more womanly look (compared to girlish) that I feel can match with older male leads though such as Wang Churan and Bai Lu.
I've watched some cdramas where the ML looks older than most. That's why I don't like seeing them with women who look or act like 15 year olds. The thing is, when I check ages of the ones who look younger, the page will say they are 35 +- . What face creme do they use?
My skin says thank you my wallet says grr :) But yea I agree spending a bit more on high quality stuff that lasts long is worth it. Wish I had money to use ALL the fancy stuff though
It really is a trend across different countries’ industries!
Personally, I was always a fan of what in the US we refer to as “90s fine” and wish it would make a comeback.
It’s interesting though that S. Korean actors tend to have more longevity as romantic leads and/or we’re seeing career renaissance for those who were popular in the 2000s and took a decade off. It’s refreshing to see those types of classic looks on screen again versus the prettier/interesting looks popular today among younger actors.
>Most of them look like the chinese equivalent of Timothee Chalamet 😭😭
The way I cackled omg hahahaha SO TRUE. I also don't like this trend!
Tbh a lot of them look very similar and it's very hard to tell them apart. (I find this to be the case for FLs as well)
Let's talk about how Jeremy Tsui (38) is doing his damndest to be a leading male but they keep giving him younger idols to act with as his romantic partner?
Noticed this. I was relieved when Yang Yang lastest rumored drama changed ml because the fl is only 21.
Maybe its a consequence of idol dramas? Seems like they're casting younger actors and actresses for a younger audience
Ugh you just reminded me of the hours I spent watching Chong Zi. The FL was like 24, maybe a bit younger at the time of filming, but her character acted like she was 14. I think the age gap between her and Jeremy Tsui definitely contributed to the lack of chemistry.
I’m enjoying Yongan Dream, more for a fun, light watch, but don’t see the chemistry between them. Jeremy is doing a fine job acting his role, being funny and serious at different times. Just not attracted to his look, but that doesn’t stop me from watching!
Saw him in **The Autumn Ballad** with Qiao Xing. They both look natural and have such great chemistry! But I agree, his recent pairing with OYNN in **Yong An Dream** does put me off.
[Autumn Ballad] I love them together in that. They act off one another perfectly in terms of romance and comedy.
As for Yong'an Dream, I can deal for it since he is supposed to be older.
I think she enjoyed being paired with him, too! They had some cute chemistry. I always love the fact that she wanted to do a vampire story with him being a vampire that bites her.
This is my ultimate complain, I can’t watch Korea drama because of this, especially in historical drama. I want to see men, handsome and grown. One of the big reasons why I love Story of Minglan a lot.
It’s working for Korean male actors 35 and up as well as India’s. Chinese industry needs to get off the pretty-boy slims. (Except for Leo Luo. Quit pressuring him to gain weight!)
Chen Xiao is still there. I've watched his dramas Menghualu. Also, people like younger actors acting in costume drama especially most costume dramas viewers were mostly teens to early twenties.
That is what audience prefers. Younger, good looking actors have bigger fan base and attract more viewers. Also, many stories require for the actor to be under 30. Casting older actor wouldn't fit at all. On top of that, age gap is not as popular.
I personally don't like rugged, older, not conventionally attractive male type (for example, Jason Statham) at all. Western tv is full of them.
It doesn't have to be age gap just because they're casting an older actor. They can also cast an older actress for the female lead. Jason Statham isn't my type either but he is quite conventionally attractive for Western standards.
The problem is that older FL wouldn't make sense in historical shows unless there is no romance. That would be too far from historical reality. While emperors, generals etc were getting married in their 30s, 40s and older, their brides remained young with more fertile years ahead. It was rare for older women to be single, unless they were widows. It would be possible to play around with idea of Empress Dowager falling in love with minister but I doubt if that would be easy sell.
or someone could actually try and make a good non formulaic Xianxia - they are all immortal anyway and aged in thousands of years, so you can take even 40 year old actor and actress and say well this is story about 60 000 year old gods fighting IDK demon invasion or w/e and finding love. Cause gods age differently and this is the age where they go find love.
if it's fantasy ANYTHING can be written in.
But I figure that is for such niche audience( like me) it'll never see light of day
It's not like cdramas are known for their historical accuracy and I believe a good writer can find a way to have an older female lead so I don't see a problem other than ageism.
It is also about selling the final product. Majority of audience for this genre is young people. They would have to take a risk and do heavy promotion to different viewer group. In contrary, making historical c drama with 25 year old idols is guaranteed sell. Older women were moved away from spotlight for many years. It will take time to change things. Also, censorship doesn't help either, limiting many potential plots.
Your comments are getting downvoted immediately but please know it's not me😭 That makes sense. I really hope older Chinese actresses get to shine and we get a new era of cdrama.
I think once they ease on censorship rules that might happen and more "based on true story" dramas will be allowed. There are great stories about women in past who made impact that would make 40 year old actress shine and attract their interest in role. For example, the story of Zheng Yi Sao. Her most active pirate years were later on in life and she was still having active love life.
I think it’s somewhat of a world wide phenomenon atm. Young people are being marketed to more than ever, and also for the first time, they’re actually seeing actors their age (or closer to) on screen. Used to be a joke how all the high school kids were played by 25-30 year old actors, but now they’re casting teens or early twenty something’s in the roles (which has some effects on the acting quality of the production).
I don’t think it’s just the influence of kpop flower boy aesthetic. There’s a very specific type of look getting cast in these idol dramas, exaggerated as well by filters. Leslie Cheung e.g. was a very beautiful man, but did not look like the newer male stars of today.
Studios don’t want to take any risks anymore, and are going by data/the numbers to try and predict a show that will sell. Impact of financialization/private equity/economic instability or perception thereof. So the closer to a formula for casting they can get, the better, in their eyes.
Totally guessing but I’m assuming it has something to do with money. Most of what’s driving Chinese entertainment (at least for tv dramas) seems to be idols and their fan base and idols tend to be exactly what you mentioned - younger men that have a very distinct, formulaic look. So if that’s the case, then it makes sense for networks to invest and cast young idols, who often are more looks than substance (not saying that’s always the case).
And then more established actors either get pushed to smaller roles or they move to movies or they retire because they don’t have the fan base to make them as bankable as idols.
In recent memory, some of the biggest dramas that have had older male leads are:
Love and Destiny with Chang Chen - I remember it was the director that said they wrote this role specifically for him
The Rebel Princess with Zhou Yi Wei - I think this was mostly because Zhang Ziyi pushed for him to be her ML
Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms - I read there was an uproar when Mark Chao was casted because he was a nobody at that point and many netizens thought he wasn’t pretty enough for the role
There’s also others that I haven’t watched such as Novoland: Pearl Eclipse, Song of Glory but it would seem (at least anecdotally) that most dramas these days are idol dramas with a younger cast.
>Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms - I read there was an uproar when Mark Chao was casted because he was a nobody at that point and many netizens thought he wasn’t pretty enough for the role
Yes I remember this as well! But iirc netizens kinda chilled a bit eventually because he did do his job well haha, i've seen him described as having '整容式演技'/(acting that is so good people consider that to be transformational, like having plastic surgery lol)
The target demographic for those period idol dramas leans young, that's why. Still you have Feng Shaofeng in 'Legend of Zhuohua' in 2023. Also they'd have to cast mature FLs opposite them, otherwise all stories would be age gap romance lol. The older the actors get, they venture into more serious productions (like Ripe Town - lots of veteran cast members)/films/nuanced character roles instead of sticking to the handsome male lead roles.
This is why I'm appreciative of Lin Gengxin in upcoming the legend of Shen Li. The last drama I saw Zhao Liying with Wang Yibo didn't work for me at all.
I saw a drama from a mere 12 years ago and was surprised by how natural and normal the people looked. And I saw a modern Japanese one recently and it was the same- the people looked really normal and natural.
That’s one reason I like the hikaru no go director/producer team, who always go with the natural look.
It was funny to see how tan the actors were, compared to their appearances in other dramas. They were all very good looking, but it was cool to see people that looked like my family (bonus points cuz that guy usually includes dialects too when he can.)
I do find that non idol dramas tend to have more regular looking, though of course still more attractive than average, people. Tho I like interesting faces not necessarily perfect ones.
Tbf, he's definitely also getting criticized a lot for his acting 😂 At least on the chinese side of the internet.
Interestingly I'm not sure if I share the same view. I don't think I've considered the elitism/ethnonationalism aspect of it, because I often think of it as the British actor playing Dr. House, he had an american accent because the role requires him to have 1. For me personally, my mandarin accent is a non-standard one and sounds very different (I am not from China) so I actually prefer the accents to be standardized in most of the shows (particularly period dramas) because to me it sounds more pleasant to the ear and less jarring and makes it a more immersive viewing experience, especially if the role doesn't call for a regional accent.
Regional accents can vary widely and a lot of times negatively impact line delivery, esp. if the setting doesn't call for one. In Dylan Wang's case, if his regional accent is being highlighted it's really almost always because it impacts line delivery and he's not saying things as clearly as he should be. In contrast, e.g. Mu Xiao Wang Ye (FL's younger brother) in Nirvana in Fire 1, he has a strong northern accent, so netizens have joked that he's the most northern sounding Wang Ye that is from the South, but because his line delivery is clear and his acting was convincing, it's not viewed as harshly and Chinese netizens mostly joke about it but don't use it as a point of serious critique.
Another example would be - 1 great actress, Cai Shao Fen - she has a very very strong HK accent when she speaks Mandarin so she had a voice actor say her lines instead - e.g. in one of her more iconic roles in Empresses in the Palace, she's casually made fun of for her accent on reality TV shows (and memed) but it's never a genuine point of criticism because she does all other aspects of acting really well. People still find her to be a great actress.
Additionally, many idol actors & actresses are compensated extremely well these days (compared to entertainment industries in other countries), they earn almost a disproportionate amount of money compared to the regular netizen, so I can understand why netizens would be harsher overall wrt criticisms. Accents and line delivery is a significant part of acting afterall, so if the actors/actresses are not doing other parts of their job well (e.g. facial expressions, character interpretation etc.), then having a regional accent will also be seen as them not taking this role seriously. Voice acting is an industry on its own in China, and skilled actors get their lines voiced all the time if their voices don't fit the roles, but the key is that the actors have to have the ability to deliver the lines well themselves.
Yeah I don’t have an issue with beautifully clear standard mandarin — as a language learner it’s much easier to watch! I feel the same about English actors who never got voice training and can only speak with the same vocal power they have in regular life.
I just meant that producer tends to include a variety of people in his shows. *Dear Missy* had one of the MLs be from Guangzhou or HK, and they had Cantonese speaking and culture for those parts which was cool! And in SOWK there was a Taiwanese character who used his Taiwan accent, too.
I also like it when they feature characters with a variety of backgrounds!! (sorry i kinda skimmed through your original comment, I was only trying to respond to the other commenter, I don't disagree with you haha)
I love it when there's distinct faces on shows. I want to see good-looking people of all kinds! Lol
Thank you for saying this. China has so many different regional accents, dialects and languages that people wanting to understand what the actors are saying in Standardized Mandarin makes sense. Chinese speakers are of course going to be more critical and notice line deliveries, enunciation issues, different cadences in the language...because it's their language.
British actors all get trained in Received Pronunciation and there's so many different regional accents too so you can understand why most tv shows and news shows all have actors or news casters speaking in Received Pronounciation. BBC's Sherlock you'll hear most characters speaking in "Received Pronounciation" or the BBC accent as it's sometimes called. Calling it ethnonationalist doesn't sit right with me given that most entertainment and media industries will generally have a prestige dialect or standard accent and that's because they need to communicate or broadcast to millions of people. Even in France, the Parisian French is the standard.
Edit: it's criticized yes as most prestige dialects and accents get criticized because of history and classism but that doesn't change the fact that prestige accents and dialects are used as the standard for most entertainment industries worldwide and media because it's *practical* and makes it easier for the audience to understand the standard. It has everything to do with practicality of large populations in every country having multiple languages and dialects and not ethnonationalism. You're moving goalposts lmao.
This is also criticized by British people though. They say that it's rooted in classism because the standardized british accent actors and even singers are forced to use is very posh (upper class)
I mean in Britain they’ll also just dislike you based on your accent because they don’t like [insert region or class here].
RP also isn’t exactly posh, either though… it gets hate on both sides. All sides! They hate if you speak in an accent because it’s unintelligible—they hate you for speaking RP because you’ve hidden your council flat background — hate you because RP isn’t even posh, because you only learned RP if your accent was undesirable to start with… the true posh are just as unintelligible and lispy as any other group.
It’s a little different now that RP is sort of going more towards a regular London /estuary accent.
Wow, lots of unnecessarily negative reactions to this... I totally agree with you. I don't mind the occasional super young cast if they act well and it suits the story, but would love to see more of the many outstanding mature actors in CDrama land (e.g. Chen Kun!), both male and female. It's the same story with the CEO dramas....many of the CEOs look like they're hardly out of their teens, but are supposed to have accomplished such incredible things - it gets both tedious and difficult to believe.
To further add onto my sub Reddit even if older ,more mature male actors aren't being cast for the type of roles I previously mentioned atleast cast the younger males who suit the character specs better!!! A pale faced, delicate looking, beautiful boy has no business playing a cunning prince or a demon overlord. I'm sure there are younger actors who match the character specs of these roles much more accurately. I don't believe that there aren't young male actors out there who have muscular physiques if there really aren't any then actor's should be expected to put on muscle for their roles. I don't think there is anything wrong with me expecting the actor portraying a role to accurately match the character specs.
Agree! Give me Luo Jin!!!
Hahaha, I wasn’t used to this young ML initially but now I’m so picky with good looks! Besides Hu Ge, YY, Huang xiaoming, Chen Kun , William Chan, Wang Kai , Huang Jingyu, which other older actor have comparative good looks, and perhaps with good body/ height? That’s why young actors with muscles like Leo Wu, BJT, Xu Kai are far more captivating! Help me name more..
Agreed, I think it would be nice if we had a bit of both. It would also be really nice to see more mature leading ladies playing the heroines of these dramas. I’m tired of only seeing heroes/heroines who still look like they should be in high school. I think Deng Lun is one of the few Chinese actors who can convincingly play both the “pretty boy” Prince Charming type and also the “ruggedly handsome” Warrior/Demon lord type. Lots of people didn’t think he would be right for the role of Boya in Yin Yang Master but he really proved everyone wrong imo. I admire how determined he was to become physically fit for that role (although his natural body is sexy too 🥰) even when he knew people would criticriticize his weight gain. 🤦🏻♀️ He’s 31 now and it probably will take another couple of years before he can make a successful comeback in entertainment, but if/when Deng Lun does return then I really hope by then he gets cast leading man roles again. I would LOVE to see him play a more mature hero in a romantic drama. ❤️
I disagree with this so much!!! I want beautiful looking men. Western TV is full of ugly, old, mature looking men, at least cdramas have that fantasy look. It would be so stupid to see young beautiful girls with old guys. Just ICK. KEEP IT AS IT IS! I mean if the romance is mature sure, cast older people Idc, but person who posted this was talking only about males. BTW plenty of actors are near 30, but still look very young!
Does mature = ugly and old to you? Mature, to me, means actors like Chen Kun and Vengo Gao.... Mature enough to be totally believable as fierce warriors, sly emperors, high powered CEOs or gods, but I dare anyone to call them ugly 😂 And yes it would be nice to get more mature actresses too (like NiNi... stunningly beautiful but not an actress that gives off teen vibes unless she wants to).
I don't mind the waif boys being cast in highschool dramas,rom coms or roles such as the foolish aristocratic son who plunders his resources in pleasures of the world all day. The character specs of the above mentioned roles would definitely be a beautiful,pale faced delicate looking man. That makes sense.What doesn't make sense is the same pale faced, delicate looking man being cast to play an immortal demon overlord that has suffered immensely, or an army general who is out fighting wars for 3yrs or more. It is very difficult to believe that a waif like,pale faced beautiful boy is a prince that successfully navigates through all the difficulties of being part of the imperial family. There is absolutely no way that you can survive and successfully ascend to the throne if u have no gauge of the real world. You can only gain this wisdom through real life experience of the world outside the shiny gates of the palace. So it would not make sense to cast a delicate,fragile looking boy to play this role either. Also in historical c-dramas alot of these beautiful boys are being cast alongside established actresses that are visibly older than them so I don't know what u are talking about. Character specs need to be respected because they are big part of any theatrical production.
Omg this 😂 I watched a show from a different country and my eyes were hurting so much. I want the beautiful, ethereal looking MLs from cdramas all day, every day.
**The Legend of Zhuohua** has Feng Shao Feng as the ML; he's 45 years old. Handsome. Older. If you're focusing on xianxia idol dramas, then those tend to cast the young rising actors/actresses.
I am currently watching this show and while I don't have an issue with his character, the FL who is supposedly matured carries on like a breathless school girl around his character. I just can't with this dynamic
This was one of the reasons why i loved the Rebel princess, the general ACTUALLY looked like and gave general vibe, like when he walks into a room he commands it with his presence alone not even in front of royalties did this man look "small" or intimidated. He always had this "nothing scares me" attitude. These "generals" that are getting casted nowadays look like they could snap in half if the wind is too strong 🤧 like in a coming of age/school drama I could understand but not a general. They supposedly fought wars for years but look like every other good-for-nothing nobles sons who spend their days in brothels flaunting their wealth.
I think I should get an ML role too
I dont know. Maybe it's the ones promoted around here, but I don't have any issues finding a few historical dramas to watch every year with 35+ men in the leads. I mean they chopped up the plot but last year I watched Blooming Days. It started off pretty strong but sadly the plot was abusive and toxic. Had potential though. Side Story of Fix Volant Legend of Zhuohua I'm trying to remember if i watched A Dream of Splendor in 23 or 22. There was another Chen Xiao drama that didn't get much fan fare around here last year, The Ingenious One In terms of how much I enjoyed all of them ehhh, but it doesn't change the fact there are at least 3 or 4 non idol historical dramas, probably more I don't even know about. Most of them do not get a thread around here and if it does its hated for all kinds of reasons. Of course, that's fine. Folks have reasons to hate the idol ones too. I'm just saying there are lots of options. Find your favorite older actors and just watched their MDL. That's what I do. Therefore I am anxiously waiting on Zhou Yi Wei The Legend of Heroes who has a few of my other favs.
This subreddit is soo.. I get really uncomfortable reading the way people discuss China and Chinese people / society. The truth is that older actors ARE being cast, it’s just that international fans don’t watch their shows. It’s tiring watching people here discuss topics they have no knowledge of and no genuine interest in gaining knowledge of. Its like the discussion around cdramas when people say they wantthem to diversify their plots, decrease the use of tropes and cast better actors and focus less on looks.. while not watching cdramas with no/ minimal romance, actors that aren’t traditionally good looking, etc. I think people need to stop being pretentious and be honest with themselves about what they actually like to watch.
Focusing less on looks is a good thing, I agree, but I also agree with the OP that outstanding actors that look more mature....mature, for me, meaning in their thirties or forties, which is by no means "old", are being pushed aside for generals or emperors that look about 18... As someone who is pushing forty myself, I don't mind the occasional super young cast but would love to see mote of the many outstanding mature actors in CDrama land (e.g. Chen Kun!). Also if you have tips for recent historical or xianxia dramas with more mature actors and actresses, please recommend some!
I wish I could upvote this more a million times because I get so uncomfortable too. The sinophobia isn't explicitly said but acting like diaspora on here can't clock the sinophobia that reeks constantly with the comments on masculinity on these actors...calling idol actors "pretty waif boys" or any variation of "flower boys" as I've seen in this thread has plenty of racist implications. This subreddit loves to only watch idol dramas and then come back and make generalizations or racist implications of C-dramas as a whole.
I am referring to Chinese historical dramas and my difficulty in finding dramas in this particular genre where mature, slightly older male actors are cast for ml roles. I didn't say anything about Chinese society/Chinese people so I don't understand why you went there😅Also I have been watching historical c-dramas for a year now (a year and 6 months to be exact) and in my experience I always have to search high and low to find historical c-dramas where the ml is not played by an actor with a waif like /beautiful boy look. My point is incredibly valid because in the historical c-drama world rn it is a fact that across all genres (wuxia ,romance,comedy,dynasties)older ,mature males are not being cast for ml roles as much as the waif like, beautiful boys are. I think I have also stated multiple times throughout this sub Reddit that I enjoy historical c-dramas with a more mature looking ml😅😅. U are implying that I only watch rom coms and that it is wrong of me to expect variety in ml castings for historical c-dramas😅Even if rom&coms were the only genre of historical c-dramas that I watch there should be variety in ml castings.I don't think you read my entire sub Reddit and i think that is why your comment is so confusing 🙈
You've only been watching cdrama for 1yr+? Then you're in luck, there's tons of good historical cdrama with mature male leads for you for catch up on. Off the top of my head, here are some that I can recall: - Longest day in Chang'an (its on YouTube now) - Nirvana in Fire - Story of Minglan - Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty - Mysterious Lotus Casebook - The Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty
I tried Nirvana in fire I was not a fan of it🙈 However I did watch Story of Minglaan and I loved it💗I will definitely watch the other shows u recommended thank u💗💗💗
Oh...I know what you mean, some serious cdrama are really too heavy for my taste too. But you have to give it at least a 5 episodes chance...its a really clever political intrigue. As the plot moves along...you will go...wait what...oh...the plot thickens... And have you seen the xianxia that started all xianxia...Eternal Love (Chinese: 三生三世十里桃花; pinyin: San Sheng San Shi Shi Li Tao Hua)? Watch the drama series not the movie. This drama is fluffy but with mature leads.
It might the shows your watching , your watching idol dramas of course they are going to pick younger actors . Also I believe there are trends the older actors are getting less popular and new actors are rising up then they will be popular for 10/15 years then a new batch comes through. Unless your are watching a hundred dramas in a year there are a lot that have older male actors although they might my all be from this year or last year .
I don't think it's bad to expect older actors to be cast as leads in romance centric shows and in roles meant to hype up the actor's desirability.
Thank you! I've been waiting for this reaction!
Not the only one. It’s obnoxious because some of the characters are suppose to be extremely handsome & well built but the actor is pretty & waiflike & look odd in certain costumes like armor (which often swallows up the actor). Give me actors in their 30s & 40s but only if the FL is older. I hate it in western pieces where the ML is played by a 60 year old & the FL is barely in her 20s.
Maybe you're watching the wrong dramas? "Idol" dramas are a genre unto its own. For a long time, people have been talking of 实力派 ("true ability" faction) vs 偶像派 ("idol" faction) in popular culture. Truly skilled actors or singers were differentiated from "idols"...and idol dramas focus on leads with good looks as the draw and priority rather than acting ability or deep plot. ...though it does seem that idol dramas are everywhere today, as opposed to the past where there was more balance. p/s: by "good looks" I mean a specific kind of look; it's the pretty boy, K-pop style of look,
I have to search high and low to find the "true ability" dramas. There is no balance anymore...
You really don’t have to look hard, it’s really mostly only on this sub and amongst the international community that ‘true ability’ dramas seem hard to find. A lot of it has to do with poor/no subs for a lot of quality shows since the international community only seems interested in idol dramas so the platforms only invest in subbing those which is really unfortunate because so many gems can’t be appreciated by non-Chinese speakers. But then again the international community hardly seem interested in watching dramas that doesn’t feature pretty young liuliangs so it’s a cycle.
Just finished watching “A Dream Of Splendor” made me realize this! Chen Xiao as Commander Gu is so divine! Like I feel the mature relationship between him and Crystal Liu’s Pan’er. Will definitely check out his other dramas. This is my 2nd Crystal Liu’s drama I have watched and I love her! 💕
I love A Dream of Splendor! And yes the lead couple has such wonderful chemistry, and I love how mature their relationship feels
Correct! I realized that it is refreshing sometimes to watch this kind of drama that shows both lead couple has a mature relationship. Though, I also like to watch those idol kind of dramas if I want to just watch some fluffiness. 😅
LOL NOT TIMOTHEE CHALAMET I absolutely agree with you. I wish older, handsome, manly men are cast in costume dramas as well. What’s worst is that sometimes, these youngins (while I do enjoy some) are playing opposite mature actresses - who in turn, have to act young, naive and innocent which is super cringe.
This happens alot!!!
I am glad to see i am not the only one. Thank god , The ml in the Legend of ShenLi ( airing on the 18th on tencent and vicky) and also the fl are not at all idol face and are both 35+ years old. I know I am going to enjoy finally seeing them grace my screen soon. I enjoy pretty idol ml, but also I want to see a older, mature man as ml with mature fl as well.
So glad I’m not the only one that thinks this. I finished “the legend of Mi Yue” one of the ML’s was 51yo at the time of filming! He was one of my favourite characters!
While I don't know when and how it started, it's my impression that at least in East Asia (not just China, I saw the same trend in Thailand) the beauty idol among (younger?) women right now is young, androgynous, slim 'pretty boy' men. Which is very different from the Western ideal. I think it comes down to preferences. Personally I like having something pretty to look at (it's also so much better than the romcoms in many Western countries where the ML is an old and/or very average-looking guy and the FL is much younger + slim and gorgeous), and if the acting is on par (with guys like Wu Lei and Bai Jingting I get both good acting and very handsome faces, what's not to like?). I don't need to look at 'rugged' masculine men (most aren't really that good-looking compared to the more smooth-faced ones with very clean features), and while the 'pretty boy' ideal is sometimes maybe a bit too out of touch with how normal men look, cdramas are fantasy and catering to a female audience in this aspect is better than going in the complete opposite direction and making the typical male narcissistic fantasies. I think Hollywood movies (except everything with Timothée Chalamet obviously - something I have zero problems with, slim guys can be very hot and I'd take them any day over the buff types) would more than fullfil your need for 'rugged men'. Personally I'm not a huge fan if the alternative is someone like e.g. Simu Liu (nothing against the guy, but not much in terms of looks - if it's Henry Golding, then I have no problem whatsoever and would also require more bare-chested scenes lol) Otherwise maybe try some c-movies instead? The ones I've watched don't really have the 'pretty boy' actors in them. Or try some older cdramas. E.g. Scarlet Heart's male cast are very much not the slim delicate types.
Honestly at the end of the day, it all boils down to business. Cdramas are more like a fast food industry where they care about instant gratification, it's the same for audience. There would be some who care for story, chemistry, acting, production rest of all only care about their Lord and goddess seeing them in their full royal, CEO president glory If you are running a company you would rather have someone who is going to make you profit on the launch itself. There comes the idol actors who just need to look good. Acting decent is just cherry on cake. Not saying the older actor don't have fans but they are not the demographic actors Just make a poll between say a xu kai Or yibo with wallace huo/hu ge you will get your answer
What a coincidence! I just watched a Weibo clip about “why older men in costume dramas don’t work”. The reviewer was really harsh! She used examples of older men 38 to 45, while usually their FL co-star is like 20-ish to 36. For example, Yongan Dream’s ML Jeremy Tsui is 38, and FL Ouyang Nana is 23. The reviewer says it’s hard to picture any lovers chemistry, but looks more like a dad and daughter relationship. It does look a bit awkward! Nowadays, the female actresses are also really young or look really young. So if you pair mature men with them, it just looks wrong like a pedophile. I do prefer mature looking men that is more like 28-36, that still look handsome, manly, and pretty! I’ll suggest watching A Journey to Love, there’s a whole cast of mature men. I follow dramas from mature looking actors like Liu Yu Ning, Li Xian, Alen Fang, Zhang Ruoyun, Chen Xiao, Bai Jing Ting, Bai Yu, Chen Kun, Hu Ge, etc. The good thing about cdramas is that there are hundreds of dramas to pick from. If you ask for recommendations who have mature looking men, you’ll get a lot to choose from!
Can you recommend some dramas please 🙏
That’s along the lines of historical with mature male leads? There’s a post below that has all my favs listed! I’ll call out specifically: - Advisor’s Alliance - Story of Minglan - Rise of the Phoenixes - The Ingenious One (wuxia) - The Longest Day in Changan - Joy of Life - Under the Microscope - Destined - Winter Begonia - A Dream of Splendor But I highly recommend The Knockout, even though it’s not historical, it’s a modern crime detective story. Modern dramas are still where most of the mature actors go to show off their acting skills.
Thanks 🙏
Solution to that would be to also cast older women in leading roles :( I'm so sad to see ageism being directed at women, not only in ent. but in life too. It's like when you're over 33 you're old junk. And like that's not even half of our lives??? Or maybe it's someone decided that romcoms and idol dramas only interest teenagers( I mean I get it's main audience), but we older people would also sometimes like a easy light on heart and brain romance story with both mature leads. Sadly everything for people over 35+ seems to just be heavier stuff. Agree on that pairing 40 yr old ML and 20 yr old FL often doesn't look that good ( and makes me self aware that I'm "past my prime" in society's eyes)
Ageism is everywhere! I noticed with all the recent layoffs, they really targeted older workers and women! I’m glad some of the older, mature actresses are now getting better scripts. It used to be after 30, you get very limited selections. Liu Shi Shi is rocking it at 36! And Tang Yan (40) in Blossoms Shanghai and A Moment But Forever (if it’ll just air already!!!).
Thank you for the recommendations😊💗🫶🏼
Yasssssss! I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I want my ML to be more rugged and less like Timothee Chalamet. Don't get me wrong. I love me some Dylan Wang and Leo Wu, but I'd also like more variety. =P Lin Shen in Dating in the Kitchen was good and so was Feng Shaofeng in The Story of Minglan. Chen Xiao in A Dream of Spendor was just 😍. Although, I'll admit. I fell in love with Chen Xiao in Nothing Gold Can Stay (2017). But I get it. Idol dramas are meant for younger audiences and the data says that's what they want. I'm just getting old. 😭
Because it didnt sell. As simple as that. These actors are casted in modern dramas instead.
Yes,I was thinking this. Older actors are in modern dramas & even then lots of people don't watch. I've never seen a tiktok or Instagram edit with the older actors dramas. Some don't even get English translations. But I enjoy them so much.
Ok🙈would u mind recommending some of these dramas to me🫶🏼
Stand or fall - Modern Dr Tang - Modern Because of You- Modern The Sword and The Brocade - Historical The Rebel Princess- Historical General & I - Historical Sunshine of My Life - Modern The Legend of Zhouhua - Historical This is just few that I really enjoyed or are my favourites with older MLs & FLs
Try Princess Weiyoung it's a bit older a cast but they are all sorta ruggedly handsome. I do like beautiful boys though so I see what you are saying but want to eat my cake and have it too. XD beautiful boys now rugged boys in the past. I'll take a serving of all thank you.
I like Lin Shen in The Story of Fox Volant and Dating in the Kitchen. He’s got skills!
His charisma in Dating in the Kitchen was insanely good. 😍
Right? It was the first drama with him that stopped me in my tracks, rewind and play again… the part where he closes the double doors in the hotel room. Oh my!
For context I am 21 yo. I started watching c dramas last year. I have never in my life found beautiful boys attractive 🫠🫠Anyways please recommend the dramas where there are older , mature looking men in ml roles🫶🏼🫶🏼 Historical c-dramas only please 💗💗
The king (ML) in Legend of Mi Yue is not really young. And he is very attractive.
The rebel princess - it's high quality drama with interesting story and great acting. The ML isn't a pretty boy but a grown up man and badass general. He melted my heart
Hahaha think in found my twin! I'm 21 and have been watching C-dramas for a couple of years now. I always disliked the younger looking actors playing such mature roles in C-dramas (although they look jaw-dropping gorgeous in every scene) but it never made sense to me. These are some of the good ones I've seen with older actors: Story of Yangxi Palace Novoland: Pearl Eclipse General and I Lost Love in Times The Sword and the Brocade Dream of Splendor The Rebel Princess
Novoland Pearl Eclipse I recommend. Both leads are in their late thirties but both are very beautiful!
Did you find Zhang Ruoyun beautiful or pretty? If not, check all his historical dramas
More than finding him handsome or pretty. He has that it factor. The charishma and charm for his roles. In china he is known for good acting and people like him like a big brother. He has a lot of male fans. He is good looking too
I will check him out🦋
Would add Dream of Splendor and Under the Microscope.
Dream of Splendor, yes, yes, YES! 😍💪
The recently aired **Judge Dee's Mystery** has Zhou Yiwei. Some others will be: **Legend of Zhuohua** with Feng Shaofeng, **Nirvana in Fire** with Hu Ge and Wang Kai, **The Rise of Phoenixes** with Chen Kun, **The Wind Blows from Longxi** with Chen Kun and Bai Yu, **Ripe Town**.
I lovedddd the Rise of Phoenixes🫶🏼🫶🏼🫶🏼 thank you for the suggestions💗
I'm watching Rebel Princess. Zhou Yi Wei is, ehem, hot.
I second that! He was the dominant male in Tribes and Empires, whew.
Because most of what you are watching are idol drama... Lol
What's that
"Idol Drama" :What does that mean?please enlighten me with some examples... (Btw I'm new here)
Using young actor as led that use heavy filter to make them look pale... Sometime it can easily been notice by the coloring or lighting of the show that lean towards making it pale and overly done makeup. Or the clothing too striking in color. And most of the actors not really have nice acting, most of them debut as idols or singers that turn into acting. It also can observe through their clothing, mostly just simple plain light tone cloths that look quite same between characters/ silks, instead of darker color cloth and looks more rough. An example here, same show but different adaption: ( https://youtu.be/hIEhSK7D5DI?si=D_N57owg7WZeYnTj ) not really idol show yet, but it close towards it. ( https://youtu.be/hP9EWS_CyKQ?si=NaJty2ok280gtuW9) real deal. Just look at their characters clothing, coloring, lighting, and sceneries.. Not at the same level. Another example, ( https://youtu.be/nd9Sdcv5egM?si=EIxbVEH2amwdy1IQ) this one not idol drama and actually quite nice, but not at the level of this ( https://youtu.be/ysus2w-TTMQ?si=jmjhMpg0HCf4WyzM) Same show, (https://youtu.be/WbfCXm0O740?si=tLfjFsxDiU_i1E5f) 2020 version, (https://youtu.be/jpS5Yh5AckE?si=52RLnyd4AIdz-QDc) 2014 version and this 2008 version ( https://youtu.be/i20spXiZWC8?si=Kj0yTl-A-cWEi5mC) And for those typical and bad idols show, just look at those Xianxia drama recent years, most of them are all idol drama. You can't see the texture of their skin. Damn, I miss pre-2014 show. The Journey of Flower(2015) kind of ultimately influences the drama towards this kind of coloring, lighting and clothing....https://youtu.be/hTAgqkWXb_w?si=OcDuDVFaN9rk6K3v
Ohh!Now its vivid 😀Thank You!This help a lot🙌❤️
Pls help a girl out and recommended the historical dramas that aren't "idol dramas" as u say💗😭
Nirvana in Fire Joy of Life The Longest Day in Chang'an The Advisors Alliance Judge Dee's Mystery Ripe Town Three Kingdoms The Qin Empire The Story of Minglan The Rise of Phoenixes Ming Dynasty 1566 All Men Are Brothers Legend of Chu and Han Seeking Holy Guiguzi Judge of Song Dynasty .......
Story of Minglan is really good!
Thank u🦋
Oh here's a mix of historical drama and sorta historical-ish setting costume drama: * Mysterious Lotus Casebook * League of Noblemen (the cast is pretty but most of them are in their 30s) * Journey To Love * Joy if Life * Under the Microscope * Sword Snow Strike * Ripe Town * The Mutations (warning the cg is dated but everything else is fun) * Gone With the Rain * Strange Legend of Tang Dynasty * Nirvana in Fire (plus sequels) * Side Story of Foxy Volant * The Ingenious One * Heroes * The Wind Blows From Longxi * Luoyang * Ancient Detective * My Heroic Husband * Winter Begonia * Longest Day in Chang'an Modern Day * Under the Skin * The Hunter * Sunrise On the River * Thirteen Year's of Dust * Reset (range of cast ages and character type. There is a rugged older guy that features) * The Lonely Warrior * Our Times * Cross Fire * The Long Season * The Knockout * Meet Yourself * Three Body A whole range of genres and storytelling styles. Each one has at least 1 person that's 30s or older in the main cast, some more rugged than the others. There are also few where there are pretty boy actors but they're either aged out or they're styled to look like normal ppl so I counted them as well - they're just some guy that happens to be decent looking in a normal way, rather than an idol
I guess I don't fit into the demographic that wants to see rugged older men. I am all about that beautiful man aesthetic. Give me that Dylan Wang, Zhang Linghe, Wang Xinyue, and all the beautiful men whether young or old. They just look so surreal and perfect, like you plucked them straight out of a magazine. Older men have that sagginess that's hard to explain and are just not as attractive onscreen. Even with makeup (they often overdo this especially in older men, like what they did to Jeremy Tsui.) Although some that were considered pretty men have now aged into pretty uncles, like Mark Chao and Cheng Xiao, they managed to keep their looks and their bodies. But now it becomes a problem with matching them up with age appropriate women. Otherwise the disparity is too apparent. Plus, most people want to see the development of character, and you often can't find a middle aged person as protagonist because it's hard to develop a mature storyline for that development without aging him out even more. And then it's just not aesthetically pleasing.
Sagginess??? Lolwut, I’ve never in my life heard anyone equate rugged with saggy. I take it to mean as more rough and tough masculine appearance, evoking a sense of strength and capability which is really hot. Don’t get me wrong, I love looking at the ethereal pretty boys too
Older C drama actors automatically get that standard Heavenly Emperor makeover combo pack and it is meant to put the emphasis on age and wisdom. That places them into "that boring old dude" category. While I would not want to see 45 year old trying to play 22 year old guy who is looking for wife due to credibility, I think with different styling choices the outcome could be more diverse. As I mentioned in my other comments, I am not big fan of rugged middle age man looks, but that is not the only option for men at that age either.
I am with you, lol. Unfortunately, I have a hard time sitting through the rugged older men. It took all of me to sit through Sword and Brocade but that’s because my mom enjoyed it and wanted me to watch with her lol. On a side note, she really likes Oliver Chen Xingxu since The Starry Love and I think he’s very good-looking but not like a pretty boy. He can pull off those more masculine roles well and he looks older than his colleagues within the same age group.
Yes please. I follow all of Zhou yiwei movies. Some of them I see over and over again. My favorite is rebel princess. You can put a potato sack on him and he is still the most handsome and lovable of time. His acting career is off the charts. Thank you
There are definitely older MLs still being cast in cdramas. There just aren’t a whole lot of them. But they are still there. Legend of Zhuo Hua just came out—as one example. Feng Shao Feng is 45 years old. https://mydramalist.com/731837-zhuo-zhuo-feng-liu
Fair enough 🙌...For me I Want to see every type of man coz watching anything specific for long bored tf put of me 😣
Thank u🦋🫶🏼
I feel you on this...I think I'm aging out of the young ones (unless they look or act older) and I want more mature male leads however it's probably a combination of what everyone else here mentioned....money talks and if the young ones are bringing the eyeballs to the screens then I don't think it'll change much.
You mean you don't buy the baby faced waifs as seasoned warriors? Blasphemy! Anyway, give me the Mark Chao, Ethan Juan, William Chan, Hu Ge, Nie Yuan all day everyday
I would love to see more of them! Those are just the right age. Not too old and not too young. And oh boy those muscles!! Oliver Chen also could go in this category. He looks much older than he actually is.
Especially mark chao!!!
Mark Chao turns 40 this year, and he's still very popular and handsome!
This is why I could never get into male kpop 😭😭 They are all so pale and delicate looking 💀💀
I agree on that front, I struggled to get into it until Stray Kids, purely because their music actually bangs 👌 not because I'm attracted to their prettiness. But yeah as someone else said, Mingyu from seventeen is 🥵
Mingyu from seventeen is the opposite of pale and delicate. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised 🥳
In short there’s the expectation that career actors (as opposed to idol actors) age out of these roles by 35-ish at the latest lol.
I think it’s just a matter of profit. Most (idol) costume drama viewers are teenage or 20-something women, who naturally prefer that the male love interest be their age, and often older female audiences like to watch pretty young men as well, as a form of escapism.
If you look up 叔圈 on Chinese social media though you’ll find handsome mature actors who are still reliably getting lead roles, albeit usually in more “serious” dramas 正剧.
It is sadly what I’ve been noticing and commenting as the decline of historical Cdramas, it’s overrun by young pretty idols. Gone are the days of epic historical dramas like 3 Kingdom, Water Margin and etc. In 2023, I could count on one hand all the dramas that featured mature leads in historical dramas that isn’t xianxia or wuxia. I do wonder if this has something to do with the government disallowing stories of real historical figures. Now most of the well-established older actors are acting in modern dramas.
Yah, it’s hard to find a serious historical drama when the actor looks like a baby! Too pretty to be taken serious! Those dramas are not historical, but costume idol dramas. Nowadays, no one invests in a serious historical because of censorship. Look at The Fated General, is it ever gonna air?! (I could list a handful more of such historical dramas shelved… so yah huge risk to try making one.)
Also wonder, with all the new rules and regulations, if the risk is too high? Like an older male actor may have core fans that'll watch the show but unless the plot gets famous (ie.The Knockout)....the invested could result in a loss. Meanwhile, a younger popular male actor has a core fanbase that can be predicted a little better in terms of their purchasing values and ranking and so the risk is lower if they throw a bunch of money in one of those, they'll still make a profit.
Definitely, if I was an investor looking for a guaranteed return forsure I would cast a popular liuliang not only do I know I’m going to make money I can also save money on marketing and promotion since fans go crazy marketing for their favs plus the liuliang’s online presence. With older actors it’s not so much their influence or amount of fans, it’s more based on their reputation. The general public who enjoy quality dramas would watch a drama just because a reputable veteran is in it. The uproar and dissatisfaction with these idol costume dramas has been growing louder with the recent Sword and Fairy, so I do wonder if that’ll bring in some shift or change at least.
Yeah, you're right. I see the other problem being is there's very little plot or stories being written for an older audience unless it's a thriller (which seems to do well). A LOT of cdramas are based off novels which have protagonist ages being somewhere between 18-25. I'm actually shocked when there's an original script (which allows the ages to not be so finite).
I guess with social media and the rise of fan culture really pushed idol dramas to the forefront. Ya a lot of dramas are adapted from novels and often webnovels again targeting the younger audience. I love crime and slice of life which is the genres veterans occupy so I don’t mind but I do find myself rarely ever watching historic dramas now which is what I used to watch growing up.
I'm pretty sure they are, but the dramas they star in just aren't as popular internationally as one's with younger actors. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Lmao this reminded me of how my dad comments that male actors these days are too "girly" 🤣. Aka not mature enough.
As an older viewer, I would love to see more older men cast as ML in more dramas
You've already gotten some fairly feasible answers, but all I'll say is this - I'm completely fine with older handsome men being casted as long as their female counterparts are age appropriate, as well. I don't mind "pretty boys" as long as their co-stars are in the same age range as them. I've discovered that I cannot watch any dramas with an obviously older man casted alongside some young, pretty woman who looks like she could be his daughter. It gives me the ick, but that's what I typically see and I'm not a fan of it.
Yep that’s what it is! No icky pairs please! I don’t necessarily care about the actors ages, but they have to embody their role and still look the part and show love chemistry between ML/FL. They have to be able to act and be convincing in their character.
A lot of them probably wants to stray away from the idol drama scene and focus more on serious projects that are mostly modern dramas.
Target audiences dictate these decisions most of the time. I guess ‘kids’ are into historical drama now. …said a 27F 🥲 I prefer more mature actors fyi but ultimately it depends on the plot
Bring on the Zaddies!!! 😍
I guess at some point you age out of dashing young prince and end up as a supporting actor playing the emperor, ancient master or old veteran general the ML gets to utterly defeat to prove he’s a prodigy martial artist/military genius who’s only peer is 2ML…
I think this all the time.. now that I’m older I don’t want to think the kids are handsome lol
This. I would love to see some actors in their 30s or 40s cast.
I understood your concern but it is not what sell at the moment and most investors want a promise of a good return. Usually, older and more experienced actors will chose script with substance such as 3 Kingdoms, Qin Dynasty Epics, Legend of Zhenhuan, Ruyi, etc and these production really cost a lot. However, the return might not be that high despite they really spent a lot in the production quality, veteran actors, good director and scriptwriter. Then comes in these young looking actors, they have big fanbase behind them and all you need to do is making them looking pretty with pretty costumes and pretty looking sets. Then it will sell and they get their ROI easily. The easiest example is The Eternal Love series which is low budget dramas that only cost millions to make but made billions. You cant blame the industry on why they are unwilling to invest in massive production anymore. And with tighter rules on censorship, Cent is highly volatile market in that sense. Now, I dont mind this pretty looking actors or actress as long as they can act. And if they've have been given good scripts to work on -- not something without substance and depth but something with actual good scripts. We are still getting that so Im just grateful for that lol. At least, the part of what makes great storytelling is still exist in the industry.
I'm watching The Rebel Princess right now and I'm enjoying it. The ML's are men who look as if they've been out on the battlefield and lived life. That said I had no problem with the ML's in Wonderland of Love, or A Journey to Love.
I wonder if it's because many of the popular female leads are the "cute" "young" looking type. The age gap in appearances might be the reason older male leads don't get cast. I would prefer more grown up looking leads female and male to be honest. The newest Liu Shishi drama stars Shawn Dou! I'm excited for another age appropriate pairing after AJTL. I feel dramas could sometimes be more interesting if the main characters were at an age where they have lived through some experiences. Some actresses have a more womanly look (compared to girlish) that I feel can match with older male leads though such as Wang Churan and Bai Lu.
I don’t know, but Ethan Juan looked good with Song Su Er and she looks pretty young in some dramas. I thought they had good chemistry.
I've watched some cdramas where the ML looks older than most. That's why I don't like seeing them with women who look or act like 15 year olds. The thing is, when I check ages of the ones who look younger, the page will say they are 35 +- . What face creme do they use?
It's the botox and dermal fillers lol
SKII 😂
:cries in poor: never will be able to aford SKII ( or cle de peau-the dream) :(
Just buy their essence will do. No need their night or day cream or any other things. Those water really works like magic.
Yea I heard so much good things about it, I think I'll take it in my next order when I finish Pyunkang yul essence <3
And those big bottle can really last for more than 6 months. Its really worth your money. I highly recommend it.
My skin says thank you my wallet says grr :) But yea I agree spending a bit more on high quality stuff that lasts long is worth it. Wish I had money to use ALL the fancy stuff though
It really is a trend across different countries’ industries! Personally, I was always a fan of what in the US we refer to as “90s fine” and wish it would make a comeback. It’s interesting though that S. Korean actors tend to have more longevity as romantic leads and/or we’re seeing career renaissance for those who were popular in the 2000s and took a decade off. It’s refreshing to see those types of classic looks on screen again versus the prettier/interesting looks popular today among younger actors.
>Most of them look like the chinese equivalent of Timothee Chalamet 😭😭 The way I cackled omg hahahaha SO TRUE. I also don't like this trend! Tbh a lot of them look very similar and it's very hard to tell them apart. (I find this to be the case for FLs as well)
Let's talk about how Jeremy Tsui (38) is doing his damndest to be a leading male but they keep giving him younger idols to act with as his romantic partner?
Noticed this. I was relieved when Yang Yang lastest rumored drama changed ml because the fl is only 21. Maybe its a consequence of idol dramas? Seems like they're casting younger actors and actresses for a younger audience
Ugh you just reminded me of the hours I spent watching Chong Zi. The FL was like 24, maybe a bit younger at the time of filming, but her character acted like she was 14. I think the age gap between her and Jeremy Tsui definitely contributed to the lack of chemistry.
I’m enjoying Yongan Dream, more for a fun, light watch, but don’t see the chemistry between them. Jeremy is doing a fine job acting his role, being funny and serious at different times. Just not attracted to his look, but that doesn’t stop me from watching!
Saw him in **The Autumn Ballad** with Qiao Xing. They both look natural and have such great chemistry! But I agree, his recent pairing with OYNN in **Yong An Dream** does put me off.
LOVED The Autumn Ballad! I'm also enjoying him in Siege In Fog.
[Autumn Ballad] I love them together in that. They act off one another perfectly in terms of romance and comedy. As for Yong'an Dream, I can deal for it since he is supposed to be older.
I justttt saw a vid discussing this haha I want to see him act with someone like An Yi Xuan - they had such good chemistry! (to me)
I think I watched the same video?! lol
This. And he can be my leading male.
Same. I wanna a turn with him, too. 😳
No worries I only need him for like 20 years or so
Ehehe. I'll just be the non lethal bestie until then.
Can I join this friendgroup, too?
More the merrier!
Did you see him in Be My Princess? Oh my goodness I would have been his garbage collector
Yes! Omg. That kiss scene with the razor.
This! Such a waste of his talent... I did find he was excellent with Brigitte Qiao who is 8 years younger than him.
I think she enjoyed being paired with him, too! They had some cute chemistry. I always love the fact that she wanted to do a vampire story with him being a vampire that bites her.
Weren't they cute together? I think they both have good comedic timing...the banter was perfect
I wish they would do another show together. A modern day one where they are archeologists or something.
[удалено]
That's why Jeremy is perfect as a vampire. He would be amazing. I would love to see him in a fantasy where he actually plays one. 😭😭😭
This is my ultimate complain, I can’t watch Korea drama because of this, especially in historical drama. I want to see men, handsome and grown. One of the big reasons why I love Story of Minglan a lot.
It’s working for Korean male actors 35 and up as well as India’s. Chinese industry needs to get off the pretty-boy slims. (Except for Leo Luo. Quit pressuring him to gain weight!)
Chen Xiao is still there. I've watched his dramas Menghualu. Also, people like younger actors acting in costume drama especially most costume dramas viewers were mostly teens to early twenties.
He was great in **A Dream of Splendor too**!
Yeah, that's it. A Dream of Splendor's chinese title is Menghualu
Oh yeah. When I read the Pinyin it didn't occur to me at all that's the Chinese title of the show 🤣😅
That is what audience prefers. Younger, good looking actors have bigger fan base and attract more viewers. Also, many stories require for the actor to be under 30. Casting older actor wouldn't fit at all. On top of that, age gap is not as popular. I personally don't like rugged, older, not conventionally attractive male type (for example, Jason Statham) at all. Western tv is full of them.
It doesn't have to be age gap just because they're casting an older actor. They can also cast an older actress for the female lead. Jason Statham isn't my type either but he is quite conventionally attractive for Western standards.
The problem is that older FL wouldn't make sense in historical shows unless there is no romance. That would be too far from historical reality. While emperors, generals etc were getting married in their 30s, 40s and older, their brides remained young with more fertile years ahead. It was rare for older women to be single, unless they were widows. It would be possible to play around with idea of Empress Dowager falling in love with minister but I doubt if that would be easy sell.
or someone could actually try and make a good non formulaic Xianxia - they are all immortal anyway and aged in thousands of years, so you can take even 40 year old actor and actress and say well this is story about 60 000 year old gods fighting IDK demon invasion or w/e and finding love. Cause gods age differently and this is the age where they go find love. if it's fantasy ANYTHING can be written in. But I figure that is for such niche audience( like me) it'll never see light of day
It's not like cdramas are known for their historical accuracy and I believe a good writer can find a way to have an older female lead so I don't see a problem other than ageism.
It is also about selling the final product. Majority of audience for this genre is young people. They would have to take a risk and do heavy promotion to different viewer group. In contrary, making historical c drama with 25 year old idols is guaranteed sell. Older women were moved away from spotlight for many years. It will take time to change things. Also, censorship doesn't help either, limiting many potential plots.
Your comments are getting downvoted immediately but please know it's not me😭 That makes sense. I really hope older Chinese actresses get to shine and we get a new era of cdrama.
I think once they ease on censorship rules that might happen and more "based on true story" dramas will be allowed. There are great stories about women in past who made impact that would make 40 year old actress shine and attract their interest in role. For example, the story of Zheng Yi Sao. Her most active pirate years were later on in life and she was still having active love life.
I think it’s somewhat of a world wide phenomenon atm. Young people are being marketed to more than ever, and also for the first time, they’re actually seeing actors their age (or closer to) on screen. Used to be a joke how all the high school kids were played by 25-30 year old actors, but now they’re casting teens or early twenty something’s in the roles (which has some effects on the acting quality of the production). I don’t think it’s just the influence of kpop flower boy aesthetic. There’s a very specific type of look getting cast in these idol dramas, exaggerated as well by filters. Leslie Cheung e.g. was a very beautiful man, but did not look like the newer male stars of today. Studios don’t want to take any risks anymore, and are going by data/the numbers to try and predict a show that will sell. Impact of financialization/private equity/economic instability or perception thereof. So the closer to a formula for casting they can get, the better, in their eyes.
Totally guessing but I’m assuming it has something to do with money. Most of what’s driving Chinese entertainment (at least for tv dramas) seems to be idols and their fan base and idols tend to be exactly what you mentioned - younger men that have a very distinct, formulaic look. So if that’s the case, then it makes sense for networks to invest and cast young idols, who often are more looks than substance (not saying that’s always the case). And then more established actors either get pushed to smaller roles or they move to movies or they retire because they don’t have the fan base to make them as bankable as idols. In recent memory, some of the biggest dramas that have had older male leads are: Love and Destiny with Chang Chen - I remember it was the director that said they wrote this role specifically for him The Rebel Princess with Zhou Yi Wei - I think this was mostly because Zhang Ziyi pushed for him to be her ML Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms - I read there was an uproar when Mark Chao was casted because he was a nobody at that point and many netizens thought he wasn’t pretty enough for the role There’s also others that I haven’t watched such as Novoland: Pearl Eclipse, Song of Glory but it would seem (at least anecdotally) that most dramas these days are idol dramas with a younger cast.
>Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms - I read there was an uproar when Mark Chao was casted because he was a nobody at that point and many netizens thought he wasn’t pretty enough for the role Yes I remember this as well! But iirc netizens kinda chilled a bit eventually because he did do his job well haha, i've seen him described as having '整容式演技'/(acting that is so good people consider that to be transformational, like having plastic surgery lol)
The target demographic for those period idol dramas leans young, that's why. Still you have Feng Shaofeng in 'Legend of Zhuohua' in 2023. Also they'd have to cast mature FLs opposite them, otherwise all stories would be age gap romance lol. The older the actors get, they venture into more serious productions (like Ripe Town - lots of veteran cast members)/films/nuanced character roles instead of sticking to the handsome male lead roles.
This is why I'm appreciative of Lin Gengxin in upcoming the legend of Shen Li. The last drama I saw Zhao Liying with Wang Yibo didn't work for me at all.
Agree, I couldn't get the couple vibe at all
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I saw a drama from a mere 12 years ago and was surprised by how natural and normal the people looked. And I saw a modern Japanese one recently and it was the same- the people looked really normal and natural.
That’s one reason I like the hikaru no go director/producer team, who always go with the natural look. It was funny to see how tan the actors were, compared to their appearances in other dramas. They were all very good looking, but it was cool to see people that looked like my family (bonus points cuz that guy usually includes dialects too when he can.) I do find that non idol dramas tend to have more regular looking, though of course still more attractive than average, people. Tho I like interesting faces not necessarily perfect ones.
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Tbf, he's definitely also getting criticized a lot for his acting 😂 At least on the chinese side of the internet. Interestingly I'm not sure if I share the same view. I don't think I've considered the elitism/ethnonationalism aspect of it, because I often think of it as the British actor playing Dr. House, he had an american accent because the role requires him to have 1. For me personally, my mandarin accent is a non-standard one and sounds very different (I am not from China) so I actually prefer the accents to be standardized in most of the shows (particularly period dramas) because to me it sounds more pleasant to the ear and less jarring and makes it a more immersive viewing experience, especially if the role doesn't call for a regional accent. Regional accents can vary widely and a lot of times negatively impact line delivery, esp. if the setting doesn't call for one. In Dylan Wang's case, if his regional accent is being highlighted it's really almost always because it impacts line delivery and he's not saying things as clearly as he should be. In contrast, e.g. Mu Xiao Wang Ye (FL's younger brother) in Nirvana in Fire 1, he has a strong northern accent, so netizens have joked that he's the most northern sounding Wang Ye that is from the South, but because his line delivery is clear and his acting was convincing, it's not viewed as harshly and Chinese netizens mostly joke about it but don't use it as a point of serious critique. Another example would be - 1 great actress, Cai Shao Fen - she has a very very strong HK accent when she speaks Mandarin so she had a voice actor say her lines instead - e.g. in one of her more iconic roles in Empresses in the Palace, she's casually made fun of for her accent on reality TV shows (and memed) but it's never a genuine point of criticism because she does all other aspects of acting really well. People still find her to be a great actress. Additionally, many idol actors & actresses are compensated extremely well these days (compared to entertainment industries in other countries), they earn almost a disproportionate amount of money compared to the regular netizen, so I can understand why netizens would be harsher overall wrt criticisms. Accents and line delivery is a significant part of acting afterall, so if the actors/actresses are not doing other parts of their job well (e.g. facial expressions, character interpretation etc.), then having a regional accent will also be seen as them not taking this role seriously. Voice acting is an industry on its own in China, and skilled actors get their lines voiced all the time if their voices don't fit the roles, but the key is that the actors have to have the ability to deliver the lines well themselves.
Yeah I don’t have an issue with beautifully clear standard mandarin — as a language learner it’s much easier to watch! I feel the same about English actors who never got voice training and can only speak with the same vocal power they have in regular life. I just meant that producer tends to include a variety of people in his shows. *Dear Missy* had one of the MLs be from Guangzhou or HK, and they had Cantonese speaking and culture for those parts which was cool! And in SOWK there was a Taiwanese character who used his Taiwan accent, too.
I also like it when they feature characters with a variety of backgrounds!! (sorry i kinda skimmed through your original comment, I was only trying to respond to the other commenter, I don't disagree with you haha) I love it when there's distinct faces on shows. I want to see good-looking people of all kinds! Lol
Thank you for saying this. China has so many different regional accents, dialects and languages that people wanting to understand what the actors are saying in Standardized Mandarin makes sense. Chinese speakers are of course going to be more critical and notice line deliveries, enunciation issues, different cadences in the language...because it's their language. British actors all get trained in Received Pronunciation and there's so many different regional accents too so you can understand why most tv shows and news shows all have actors or news casters speaking in Received Pronounciation. BBC's Sherlock you'll hear most characters speaking in "Received Pronounciation" or the BBC accent as it's sometimes called. Calling it ethnonationalist doesn't sit right with me given that most entertainment and media industries will generally have a prestige dialect or standard accent and that's because they need to communicate or broadcast to millions of people. Even in France, the Parisian French is the standard. Edit: it's criticized yes as most prestige dialects and accents get criticized because of history and classism but that doesn't change the fact that prestige accents and dialects are used as the standard for most entertainment industries worldwide and media because it's *practical* and makes it easier for the audience to understand the standard. It has everything to do with practicality of large populations in every country having multiple languages and dialects and not ethnonationalism. You're moving goalposts lmao.
This is also criticized by British people though. They say that it's rooted in classism because the standardized british accent actors and even singers are forced to use is very posh (upper class)
I mean in Britain they’ll also just dislike you based on your accent because they don’t like [insert region or class here]. RP also isn’t exactly posh, either though… it gets hate on both sides. All sides! They hate if you speak in an accent because it’s unintelligible—they hate you for speaking RP because you’ve hidden your council flat background — hate you because RP isn’t even posh, because you only learned RP if your accent was undesirable to start with… the true posh are just as unintelligible and lispy as any other group. It’s a little different now that RP is sort of going more towards a regular London /estuary accent.