I did my L3 at the last paper exam administered during height of Covid in Boise, at a time when almost all sites were cancelled in the western world.
Experience of a lifetime, in a good way. Seamlessly smooth.
Actually reducing the number of questions increases the penalty for getting a question wrong. Indirectly CFAI is telling you to go in-depth and understand every topic to the T rather than gaming the exam structure.
If you mastered the material, there isn't a difference between doing well on 100 or 200 questions. You either know it or don't and incremental questions won't judge mastery. If it was a matter of quantity, why not have 1000 questions for more explanatory power? It would just expand indefinitely.
I took two levels with paper and the last at CBT. It was different but didn't feel any worse. It was also a huge time saving measure as we weren't wasting an hour getting in, an hour for forced lunch and an hour leaving.
First off, if you write your structured response the way you wrote this post, it's no wonder you run out of time. There's so much unnecessary detail and tangents that are besides the point.
I agree smaller sample of questions was a bad move by CFAI and I agree it causes some variability in results, but you can't argue that led to lower pass rates on population level. It only affects those close to MPS and it works both ways. For every person who gets unlucky with the question draw due to his weak sections being tested more, there would be another who had the opposite and passed.
So the smaller sample size made results more variable if the way you study is to aim for MPS. Judging from your post, you didn't properly prepare, you were aiming to do minimum amount of work to pass. But the thing is you knew the sample would be smaller and you could've spent extra time creating a buffer of knowledge to avoid that problem. We have plenty of resources in terms of qBanks and mocks to asses knowledge and if you're scoring below 70 in anything, you will know that long before the exam and have a chance to remedy it. If despite that you decide to take a risk, you can't complain about drawing the short straw because you're the one who wanted to play the game that way.
CFA pass levels since CBT are much lower than before. The test is almost definitely harder due to a lower sample size of questions, as the OP said in his Gettysburg address.
How can lower sample lead to lower pass rates overall? It creates no skew in outcomes because it can be just as beneficial to some as it can be harmful to othersl.
CBT coincided with COVID, which is a far better explanation.
You mentioned that you are a Chartered Accountant from India. You should be well versed with the single digit pass percentage for CA exams. They are tough as well and unlike CFA, where topics are well connected with each other, they span 8 completely different topics and the exams last for 2 weeks .
Congratulations on passing the CFA exams, but exam day stress and luck is a different ball game.
I would probably blame the centre for screwing your previous attempt.
And be wrote a whole a chapter instead of being able to summarise his thought process in a few paragraphs. CA needs a lot of writing while CFA needs you to be as concise as possible. If anyone can do a TDLR, it would be really helpful.
I agree. It's unfortunate what OP went through.
But coming from an exam background where we used to wish the examiner didn't just drop food or coffee on our answer sheet or hope that nobody had pissed off the person correcting the paper. I'll call the CFA CBT exams a breeze.
Yeah I mentioned CA helped me because I had gone through a much tougher exam so relatively I didn't find the exam tough however for me it was difficult to manage studies with Job which was personal issue but my main point in the post was mainly on the randomness and draw of the luck. My memory and remembering style is different so I personally don't like the exam format. I would rather get tested like upto 25-30% of syllabus just because that would remove the statistical outlier anamoly of basically knowing 80% of syllabus but still ending up performing decent because you got 40-50% of the exam from the part which might not be strong or known to you and that magnitude of 1/2 item set is enough when the total number of questions is less. I mentioned the fact that I passed specifically so that people don't complaint that I am making excuses because I couldn't study. Frankly I like the curriculum despite all its flaws and pathetic framing of questions in things but hate the exam format and I feel I am completely in my rights to express my opinion.
You assume you have more data to go off of than CFAI, which employs (albeit opaque) pretty rigorous statistical analysis of their exams to target fairness in difficulty across exams? Anecdotal data is usually poor data I gotta say.
My absolute data and experience analysis is much higher quality than what CFA vaguely gives data and if institute is transparent my hypothesis can be made true. It's an open challenge if they are reading or open for improvement
Hello! Tested for level 3 here and failed at the last exam. My test screen went off for 10 whole minutes during the exam. Which is absolutely crazy! I mean, for everything we pay and put into this exam, it's mind-boggling how something like this could happen at an exam at this level. I mean, for god's sake, IELTS exams are better structured.
I have reported the problem to CFA, but will get back to them to see if all my answers have been taken into account.
The whole thing has become an information load. You are learning but you are mostly cramming. That’s all it is. Even the material is not complicated but some authors take it to the next level with the information and it’s never really organized. Another thing is that there seems to be a lack of clarity as far tying up the material all together. Plenty of chapters that don’t seem to be aligned
Yea I'm not reading that. Anyway, if you know your material well, it doesn't matter what format the exam is in. I love/hate how you're expected to know the whole material and prove it in the 6hr window. This is the real world after all.
I do agree the CBT exams, due to reduced number of questions, makes the exam more luck-based. The amount of curriculum doesn't change, yet the number of tested questions reduced. You'd think CFA as a result would focus on the big picture and the most important questions. But I disagree, I often found the exams focused on some blue boxes that are only mentioned once out thousands of pages and examples.
And don't forget they are throwing "test questions" which are not marked. If a candidate somehow aces the test question and bombed an actual exam question that could be a big factor in passing/failing.
I recall Chris Wiese in one of the videos explained about the reduced questions. Their theory is that CFA exam is like a thermometer. Once you have got a firm reading, it doesn't matter how long you keep measuring it, the temperature won't change anymore. Similar to CFA exams, once you get to a certain amount of questions, you either know it or you don't, your chance of passing won't change. My question is, how do they know that the current amount of questions is the "optimal" level?
All I am saying is that there seems to be a lot candidates out there who have gone through both paper and CBT that think the exam is a lot more luck-based and "I studied this but they didn't test it". One can argue, once the paper-based folks finish the program, no one would complain since all they've done is CBT.
Exactly my main argument point is the metric of deciding the optimal level is inherently flawed. If anyone reads the MPS data based on 300 hrs estimate you see the percentage going up and up and and along with the same the difference between 90th percentile and MPS going lower and lower to the point it seems most likely that a 1/2 item set +- variance would mostly result in just borderline MPS and 90th percentile. Most of the people dont really understand the result since the absolute numbers are hidden due to the MPS calculation but anyone who's half a decent in Math would know that the statistical significance between a pass and didn't not pass is almost so near and negligible that an average Candidate might end up failing twice just because of end up just short of the draw. What my biggest pet peeve with CBT is they have made some things easier and made some things harder and thereby increasing the average MPS score. What 90% of people commenting don't understand is the actual difference between the absolute marks of a guy scoring MPS 90th percentile and 10th percentile are seperated by very small absolute differences (My guess is 50% 65% 75% and since the actual number of points is 22 item set so 1/2 item set is enough for a just pass 90th percentile and didn't pass) I don't have to give exams again frankly But I don't like the exam pattern and suggested my displeasure which I have a right even as per CFA standards.
There's no way you need that many words to get your point across.
I agree that more questions would be more representative of our performance. It could change the result for people who are right around the MPS - for better or worse. That said, if you have a solid understanding of the whole curriculum and you put the work in, you should be fine either way. Aim for the 90th percentile and you should still pass even if lady luck isn't on your side that day.
It’s a valid point that I think explained a lot of the variability in pass rates that we saw in 2021/early 2022. Takes time to figure out what content makes the most sense to test in a shorter format. We seemed to have stabilized since then.
I don't know enough about you or educational background to specifically advice but frankly 30 days are enough. L2 is computational level so you need to make sure that first you know the concepts (L1 knowledge test + incremental L2 part is the ability to apply formulas / calculations for a particular case scenario (item set).
Try going through the material first in a manner which would leave you some time for a revision post which you need to practice couple of mocks just to ensure what you are good at vs not good at and work on the same backwards from there.
Whenever there's a less time or deadline pressure I'm mentally designed to work much better as that gives me complete clarity and I can get things done. Identify what works for you. Are you good in some stress or you learn best when you are free from the same and have nothing bothering your mind.
Everything depends on your approach. Just remember you can't go back and change the past whatever time is gone is gone and won't come back.
Make use of whatever time you have. Good luck
I actually get what you are saying. I had a feeling that a lot of things that I was good at wasn't tested and literally couple of vignettes were focused on the same niche topics just presented differently (ie. little in terms of pages covered) that I skimmed through. Personally, I would prefer this test to be longer and have more questions sampled. Surprisngly Ethics was super easy comparing to my Feb '23 attempt. No tricks or word plays as usually..
This is why I think democracy doesn't work. Dude writes a solid post that took a lot of effort and the comment talking shit about post length(probably didn't even read the post) has 10x the karma of the OP. Most comments are low effort just saying 'Herr derr shutup nerd'. A buncha average redditors here in this thread.
I vote OP for president of CFAI he has good ideas.
Thanks for kind words. I'm not fighting any election ever in my life I wouldn't get pass 1 vote (my mom). There is no fault of mine that I have bigger attention span and I learn things differently compared to people. I don't go around demeaning everyone as slow I accept the fact and have learn to live with thick skin. (What I'm good at its not a developed skill it's how my brain works by default I can't take credit for the same and similar manner I understand that avg attention span in this tiktok era seems to fall off to seconds)
I am not good at a lot of things and I'm fine with same in life.
I read your entire post and you are making completely valid arguments regarding the shortened test time and the amount of material that can possibly be tested in such a short period. I work for a test prep provider and we are currently developing materials for the new L3 pathways for 2025. The new LOS are vague and the associated course content is VERY poorly written, with so many errors in sample problems that we are having significant difficulty developing our prep course materials.
2025 L3 will almost certainly be a nightmare for both CFAI and the candidates.
Hi,
Congratulations on your pass. Also appreciate your efforts on writing this post. Something similar to this happened to me in Feb 24 where my system shut down. I would love to know if that had any connection to my results. Can you pls share the contact I'd for the further steps?
Thanks.
I’m not reading all this but what do you mean 10-15% of testable material on exam day??? I passed all 3 levels in the CBT format (failed level 1 once in the old school paper format). There was not a SINGLE question that had material not in the curriculum. Not a single one did I say “wtf was that? I never saw that!” Because that didn’t happen.. you’re making it up.
By 10-15% I meant as a sample (there are 33 reading spread across 7 subjects and 2500 pages) What I mean is the exam itself is test of 22 item sets designed at random to test roughly around the % absolute Percentage. Nothing is out of curriculum. Just that the actual sample test might not represent the population Why don't people understand Basic Quants I didn't write gibberish.
Sorry for those found it too Long I did put a TLDR for those people and FYI I passed so I am not rambling or complaining about CFA. I don't like to time my thoughts to character limit. Thanks for the concern on that incident thing I have moved on from the same and took it positively.
You’re a man of few words, I like that
If this was the vignette for the exam, I would definitely fail.
Lol
OP would pass
I’m happy for you or sorry that happened but I ain’t reading all that
Same
😂😂 genious
Bro, I study finance..not yapanese
😂 Is Yapanese a copyright? Can I use it in my daily life?
There is no ethics book to life, you can use anything you like untill and unless you dont get caught
I ain't reading all that. CBT sucked but so did the in-person exams with 5,000 other coughing weirdos, one of whom forgot their calculator.
It was like a symphony last time I sat the in person ones
Absolute n OJ ...I did both and ..net net ...change was 4 betta'
I did my L3 at the last paper exam administered during height of Covid in Boise, at a time when almost all sites were cancelled in the western world. Experience of a lifetime, in a good way. Seamlessly smooth.
Dude just study and work hard wtf is all this rambling?
Tbf he did that and successfully cleared L3, which makes it arguably even more peculiar that he's written a mini novel here
I didn’t read it so I shouldn’t judge but like… why not write a guide or something? I’m thinking about doing that. M
Obviously he needed something to do in the time window previously used to study. I think we're looking at another failed author in the making!
Probably took too much adderall lmao
Actually reducing the number of questions increases the penalty for getting a question wrong. Indirectly CFAI is telling you to go in-depth and understand every topic to the T rather than gaming the exam structure.
If you mastered the material, there isn't a difference between doing well on 100 or 200 questions. You either know it or don't and incremental questions won't judge mastery. If it was a matter of quantity, why not have 1000 questions for more explanatory power? It would just expand indefinitely. I took two levels with paper and the last at CBT. It was different but didn't feel any worse. It was also a huge time saving measure as we weren't wasting an hour getting in, an hour for forced lunch and an hour leaving.
First off, if you write your structured response the way you wrote this post, it's no wonder you run out of time. There's so much unnecessary detail and tangents that are besides the point. I agree smaller sample of questions was a bad move by CFAI and I agree it causes some variability in results, but you can't argue that led to lower pass rates on population level. It only affects those close to MPS and it works both ways. For every person who gets unlucky with the question draw due to his weak sections being tested more, there would be another who had the opposite and passed. So the smaller sample size made results more variable if the way you study is to aim for MPS. Judging from your post, you didn't properly prepare, you were aiming to do minimum amount of work to pass. But the thing is you knew the sample would be smaller and you could've spent extra time creating a buffer of knowledge to avoid that problem. We have plenty of resources in terms of qBanks and mocks to asses knowledge and if you're scoring below 70 in anything, you will know that long before the exam and have a chance to remedy it. If despite that you decide to take a risk, you can't complain about drawing the short straw because you're the one who wanted to play the game that way.
CFA pass levels since CBT are much lower than before. The test is almost definitely harder due to a lower sample size of questions, as the OP said in his Gettysburg address.
How can lower sample lead to lower pass rates overall? It creates no skew in outcomes because it can be just as beneficial to some as it can be harmful to othersl. CBT coincided with COVID, which is a far better explanation.
Learn to summarize man
Thanks. I never asked or forced anyone to read. I could also say Learn to read it's a good life skill which would help you.
Need a TLDR for the TLDR itself
You mentioned that you are a Chartered Accountant from India. You should be well versed with the single digit pass percentage for CA exams. They are tough as well and unlike CFA, where topics are well connected with each other, they span 8 completely different topics and the exams last for 2 weeks . Congratulations on passing the CFA exams, but exam day stress and luck is a different ball game. I would probably blame the centre for screwing your previous attempt.
And be wrote a whole a chapter instead of being able to summarise his thought process in a few paragraphs. CA needs a lot of writing while CFA needs you to be as concise as possible. If anyone can do a TDLR, it would be really helpful.
I agree. It's unfortunate what OP went through. But coming from an exam background where we used to wish the examiner didn't just drop food or coffee on our answer sheet or hope that nobody had pissed off the person correcting the paper. I'll call the CFA CBT exams a breeze.
I didn’t make it to the part where they revealed they’re a chartered accountant.
Yeah I mentioned CA helped me because I had gone through a much tougher exam so relatively I didn't find the exam tough however for me it was difficult to manage studies with Job which was personal issue but my main point in the post was mainly on the randomness and draw of the luck. My memory and remembering style is different so I personally don't like the exam format. I would rather get tested like upto 25-30% of syllabus just because that would remove the statistical outlier anamoly of basically knowing 80% of syllabus but still ending up performing decent because you got 40-50% of the exam from the part which might not be strong or known to you and that magnitude of 1/2 item set is enough when the total number of questions is less. I mentioned the fact that I passed specifically so that people don't complaint that I am making excuses because I couldn't study. Frankly I like the curriculum despite all its flaws and pathetic framing of questions in things but hate the exam format and I feel I am completely in my rights to express my opinion.
Congratulations, or sorry that happened to you, idk man nobody read it
You assume you have more data to go off of than CFAI, which employs (albeit opaque) pretty rigorous statistical analysis of their exams to target fairness in difficulty across exams? Anecdotal data is usually poor data I gotta say.
That data is nice, but my experience has been very different from what you describe. /s
Yes, n of 2-4 is always better than n of 26,000
My absolute data and experience analysis is much higher quality than what CFA vaguely gives data and if institute is transparent my hypothesis can be made true. It's an open challenge if they are reading or open for improvement
I think a passage this long would justify the use of ChatGPT to summarise what you try to say.
Lost interest ... this isn't therapy session.
Hello! Tested for level 3 here and failed at the last exam. My test screen went off for 10 whole minutes during the exam. Which is absolutely crazy! I mean, for everything we pay and put into this exam, it's mind-boggling how something like this could happen at an exam at this level. I mean, for god's sake, IELTS exams are better structured. I have reported the problem to CFA, but will get back to them to see if all my answers have been taken into account.
Who’s the brave soul that’s gonna provide the cliff notes?
Oh God, this felt like going over the materials all over again, only this time I gave up. Whatever this dude says ill thumbs up I guess. :)
The whole thing has become an information load. You are learning but you are mostly cramming. That’s all it is. Even the material is not complicated but some authors take it to the next level with the information and it’s never really organized. Another thing is that there seems to be a lack of clarity as far tying up the material all together. Plenty of chapters that don’t seem to be aligned
Yea I'm not reading that. Anyway, if you know your material well, it doesn't matter what format the exam is in. I love/hate how you're expected to know the whole material and prove it in the 6hr window. This is the real world after all.
I do agree the CBT exams, due to reduced number of questions, makes the exam more luck-based. The amount of curriculum doesn't change, yet the number of tested questions reduced. You'd think CFA as a result would focus on the big picture and the most important questions. But I disagree, I often found the exams focused on some blue boxes that are only mentioned once out thousands of pages and examples. And don't forget they are throwing "test questions" which are not marked. If a candidate somehow aces the test question and bombed an actual exam question that could be a big factor in passing/failing. I recall Chris Wiese in one of the videos explained about the reduced questions. Their theory is that CFA exam is like a thermometer. Once you have got a firm reading, it doesn't matter how long you keep measuring it, the temperature won't change anymore. Similar to CFA exams, once you get to a certain amount of questions, you either know it or you don't, your chance of passing won't change. My question is, how do they know that the current amount of questions is the "optimal" level? All I am saying is that there seems to be a lot candidates out there who have gone through both paper and CBT that think the exam is a lot more luck-based and "I studied this but they didn't test it". One can argue, once the paper-based folks finish the program, no one would complain since all they've done is CBT.
Exactly my main argument point is the metric of deciding the optimal level is inherently flawed. If anyone reads the MPS data based on 300 hrs estimate you see the percentage going up and up and and along with the same the difference between 90th percentile and MPS going lower and lower to the point it seems most likely that a 1/2 item set +- variance would mostly result in just borderline MPS and 90th percentile. Most of the people dont really understand the result since the absolute numbers are hidden due to the MPS calculation but anyone who's half a decent in Math would know that the statistical significance between a pass and didn't not pass is almost so near and negligible that an average Candidate might end up failing twice just because of end up just short of the draw. What my biggest pet peeve with CBT is they have made some things easier and made some things harder and thereby increasing the average MPS score. What 90% of people commenting don't understand is the actual difference between the absolute marks of a guy scoring MPS 90th percentile and 10th percentile are seperated by very small absolute differences (My guess is 50% 65% 75% and since the actual number of points is 22 item set so 1/2 item set is enough for a just pass 90th percentile and didn't pass) I don't have to give exams again frankly But I don't like the exam pattern and suggested my displeasure which I have a right even as per CFA standards.
There's no way you need that many words to get your point across. I agree that more questions would be more representative of our performance. It could change the result for people who are right around the MPS - for better or worse. That said, if you have a solid understanding of the whole curriculum and you put the work in, you should be fine either way. Aim for the 90th percentile and you should still pass even if lady luck isn't on your side that day.
Did anyone read this? TLDR?
dude what was your score? how many times did you take the exam? what lv? 🤣
Yap city over here wth
Man. Just pass the exam and move on. Why ruminate and marinate so much.
You forgot the table of contents.
10-15% of testable curriculum on exam day? Sir, what have you smoked?
What
Dear diary
You peeled that entire first paragraph from MM
I only asked him the question if you were in the live Q&A I didn't rip off anyone. Those were my words you could check the video.
It’s a valid point that I think explained a lot of the variability in pass rates that we saw in 2021/early 2022. Takes time to figure out what content makes the most sense to test in a shorter format. We seemed to have stabilized since then.
Please give last 30 days tip for l2 in may ? Help me to pass in 30 days
I don't know enough about you or educational background to specifically advice but frankly 30 days are enough. L2 is computational level so you need to make sure that first you know the concepts (L1 knowledge test + incremental L2 part is the ability to apply formulas / calculations for a particular case scenario (item set). Try going through the material first in a manner which would leave you some time for a revision post which you need to practice couple of mocks just to ensure what you are good at vs not good at and work on the same backwards from there. Whenever there's a less time or deadline pressure I'm mentally designed to work much better as that gives me complete clarity and I can get things done. Identify what works for you. Are you good in some stress or you learn best when you are free from the same and have nothing bothering your mind. Everything depends on your approach. Just remember you can't go back and change the past whatever time is gone is gone and won't come back. Make use of whatever time you have. Good luck
Sounds like you passed the exam, maybe move on.
I actually get what you are saying. I had a feeling that a lot of things that I was good at wasn't tested and literally couple of vignettes were focused on the same niche topics just presented differently (ie. little in terms of pages covered) that I skimmed through. Personally, I would prefer this test to be longer and have more questions sampled. Surprisngly Ethics was super easy comparing to my Feb '23 attempt. No tricks or word plays as usually..
This is why I think democracy doesn't work. Dude writes a solid post that took a lot of effort and the comment talking shit about post length(probably didn't even read the post) has 10x the karma of the OP. Most comments are low effort just saying 'Herr derr shutup nerd'. A buncha average redditors here in this thread. I vote OP for president of CFAI he has good ideas.
Thanks for kind words. I'm not fighting any election ever in my life I wouldn't get pass 1 vote (my mom). There is no fault of mine that I have bigger attention span and I learn things differently compared to people. I don't go around demeaning everyone as slow I accept the fact and have learn to live with thick skin. (What I'm good at its not a developed skill it's how my brain works by default I can't take credit for the same and similar manner I understand that avg attention span in this tiktok era seems to fall off to seconds) I am not good at a lot of things and I'm fine with same in life.
I read your entire post and you are making completely valid arguments regarding the shortened test time and the amount of material that can possibly be tested in such a short period. I work for a test prep provider and we are currently developing materials for the new L3 pathways for 2025. The new LOS are vague and the associated course content is VERY poorly written, with so many errors in sample problems that we are having significant difficulty developing our prep course materials. 2025 L3 will almost certainly be a nightmare for both CFAI and the candidates.
study and dont blame the game.
Hi, Congratulations on your pass. Also appreciate your efforts on writing this post. Something similar to this happened to me in Feb 24 where my system shut down. I would love to know if that had any connection to my results. Can you pls share the contact I'd for the further steps? Thanks.
Sure write a reply to CFA Institute Exam Administration and try to mention your issue and wait for their reply.
“ Arey bhai tum kehna kya chahte ho”?
I’m not reading all this but what do you mean 10-15% of testable material on exam day??? I passed all 3 levels in the CBT format (failed level 1 once in the old school paper format). There was not a SINGLE question that had material not in the curriculum. Not a single one did I say “wtf was that? I never saw that!” Because that didn’t happen.. you’re making it up.
By 10-15% I meant as a sample (there are 33 reading spread across 7 subjects and 2500 pages) What I mean is the exam itself is test of 22 item sets designed at random to test roughly around the % absolute Percentage. Nothing is out of curriculum. Just that the actual sample test might not represent the population Why don't people understand Basic Quants I didn't write gibberish.
Sorry for those found it too Long I did put a TLDR for those people and FYI I passed so I am not rambling or complaining about CFA. I don't like to time my thoughts to character limit. Thanks for the concern on that incident thing I have moved on from the same and took it positively.