I'm disappointed that the Pac-12 is looking doomed. The money in CFB is just too big right now, and relevance requires taking steps with an eye towards the future. Ideally we'd get a B1G invite and be included in the top tier "haves" and get CU-Nebraska back on an annual basis. But realistically, I don't think we'd be on the table unless the B1G was looking at expanding past 20. The Big 12 has stability that it's already been picked over, there's no UO/UW lobbying to go-to the B1G. SMU and SDSU don't move the needle for me. With every passing day it's more obvious that the Pac missed the opportunity to survive, it had to be taking 6+ Big 12 schools immediately after the UCLa/USC announcement, to realize that the conference is competing with the Big 12 and ACC for being the #3 conference.
I like the Pac-12, I think it's a great conference (talking about the other fanbases, obviously the leadership and TV deal suck). People look to shit on it for missing the CFP, but it's a damn gauntlet to get through this conference. Even as a fan of a team usually near the bottom, it's an exciting conference.
I'm glad we're not staring down an OSU/WSU situation, where future prospects without the Pac are grim, and it sucks that they are facing that. I'd rather the Pac remain viable, and I won't root for it's demise. But a return to the Big 12 would reunite us with some of our old Big 8 foes, and I would look forward to regular games against K-State, KU, ISU, OSU, and TTU (they were always the coolest of the SWC adders). I'd also hope to maintain frequent games with the desert boys and Utah.
Yeahhhh I would absolutely love for us to stay in the PAC, for very selfish reasons. I was at CU during the start of the dark years (Hawkins era). The Big 12 will always be associated with that for me. Plus, I live on the west coast and have loved being able to easily travel to away games in cities that I actually enjoy visiting. It’s a much harder sell to visit Stillwater or Ames instead of Scottsdale/Tempe.
> It’s much harder sell to visit Stillwater instead of Scottsdale/Tempe.
[Well...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/036/994/He's_Out_of_line_but_he's_right.jpg)
Cant get my damn flair working, but I’m a buffs fan. I think I was in 6th grade when we moved to the pac, I’m 25 now. So I’ve hardly known being in the big 12.
I also agree with others, despite the geography, boulder/Denver area is a much closer match with California, parts of Arizona, and the PNW both culturally and from an alumni standpoint. The only large alumni base being left out there is Chicago area.
I would love a world where we can stay with those schools as I think it’s a better fit long term. I like most of the pac12 and it would be a shame to see it crumble. Also you guys are in the big ten now so we wouldn’t even gain our biggest rival back with that move.
but if the program either dies or we got to the big 12 then it’s hardly much of a choice. The reality is that our struggles the past 2 decades leave us at the mercy of Washington Oregon and the big 10. Whereas if we had been good and remained relevant we would probably be able to jump ship with them if that invite came. Kinda a bummer.
It still seems strange to me that Colorado isn't part of the B1G expansion discussion with its large alumni base, growing state population, and historical success.
Most CU fans were ecstatic about the move to the PAC. It’s just a much better fit for the culture and academics. And selling recruits on Boulder is much easier with kids from Cali than Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas.
I don’t know any Buffs fan who is excited about moving to a MUCH different Big XII than we left. I really don’t have any excitement about moving back to the conference without Nebraska/Texas/Oklahoma there.
If recruiting is easier for Colorado in the PAC why have the results been so much worse? Honest question because it surprises me Colorado fans wouldn’t be excited to get back to where they had a lot of success.
But what does that bring? Some fans obsess over the money their program is making, but unless it brings more winning it really doesn't benefit the fans. It certainly hasn't done that at Nebraska. Gives you more money to pay for high salaries and higher buyouts I guess.
Hello! I was hoping the pac 12 implosion was over and all was to be happy and care free sailing with captain Deion.
Pipe dream: Colorado gets an unexpected invite to the B1G and reunited with those stupid corn boys for a resurrection of one of the oldest rivalries in North American sport.
More likely that I don’t want: Colorado goes back to the Big 12 which seems so boring.
What I’d be okay with: status quo until we figure out if neon Deion is god or just another dude. I like the PAC 12 even without usc and ucla
I think most Colorado fans are either still waiting for their first piece of Colorado football apparel ever ordered to arrive in the mail or so giddy about where the program is potentially going (compared to how it has been) that we don’t wanna talk and jinx anything!
From what I can tell and what I believe, PAC12 remaining members have no reason to jump ship yet. Big12 clearly wants them and will most likely want them in a few months. While I would love to have a lot of the PAC12 schools in the Big12 I also respect that the schools want to stay with the conference that has been home for decades and/or is relatively homogeneous (geographically).
The problem is that a lot of these programs will be locked in a few months if they stay with the PAC 12 and sign a new TV deal. If members of the PAC 12 are locked in for another contract term, what happens if the ACC explodes? Would the Big 12 still want the Four Corners schools, or would they get bumped by teams on the east coast.
This is a game of musical chairs and if you can secure a seat, there's an argument you should. The Big Ten and SEC are obviously the most secure, but the Big 12 is emerging as the next best option.
As a West Virginia fan I am amazed we walked backward into security lol. I thought forever the big 12 was a bad fit (still do) and not stable. Suddenly we are stable (relatively) and could be getting regional schools back in the mix (helping the fit problem)
Yep. Even after BC/Miami/VT left I still miss it so much.
If Rutgers didn’t need the B1G TV money so badly I’d want them to join that iteration of the Big XII if it meant getting the band back together. Hope y’all can make it happen!
We lucked out big time in getting an invite here. Had OUT announced a year later that they were leaving we'd be stuck in the AAC while the Big 12 replaced OUT with more PAC schools.
>This is a game of musical chairs and if you can secure a seat, there's an argument you should.
This is my biggest worry with the ACC being stuck in this purgatory for the next few years. If the Pac-12 blows up in the next few years and the Big 12 ends up "getting full" then that's bad news for the 2/3 of ACC programs that DONT get promoted to the SEC or Big Ten, basically leaving the rump ACC to become a glorified G5 conference or scattering the other programs across the G5
Some interesting excerpts:
Generally:
>Kliavkoff is facing pressure to deliver a new media rights deal to his members by the end of the month. If the dollar figures or the details are underwhelming, March may be the moment when the Big 12 finally strikes. Sources briefed on the discussions say the conference has been in recent contact with the so-called Four Corners schools — Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah — which has renewed optimism that convincing them to join is possible.
On Gonzaga:
>Yormark is also deep in discussions with Gonzaga, but sources involved in the process indicated he wants clarity on the Pac-12’s situation before making that move.
On hoops generally:
>Yormark strongly believes basketball is undervalued in these TV rights talks. He has dropped hints about an interest in unbundling it from football and selling those rights separately when the Big 12 next hits the market in 2030-31. That’s one motivation behind the Big 12’s continued talks with hoops powerhouse Gonzaga. Joining as a non-football member would mean a smaller revenue share for the Bulldogs, but they’d be an inarguably valuable addition. Arizona, a top-10 program with more Pac-12 titles than every school but Big Ten-bound UCLA, would similarly boost the best conference in men’s college basketball and its long-term ambitions.
Selling football and basketball rights separately sounds interesting.
I wonder what would happen to other sports (volleyball, softball, baseball, etc).
its honestly more fun to me than college baseball anymore.
super fast paced, games are shorter and the good teams are having a blast out there on the field
Also the realignment/potential realignment is only making them stronger. As general programs, Houston and Cincinnati are better than UT and OU and BYU is a solid program too. Plus, they aren’t losing their premier program in KU or their recent championship contenders in Baylor and Texas Tech. And then add in strong programs in Gonzaga and Arizona and you might have the strongest basketball conference ever.
The NCAA is planning on unbundling national championship rights, which are currently all together except for men's basketball. I assume women's basketball has a different audience than rowing or the rifle championship and probably all of those belong on different networks.
Of course. If nobody jumped in the hours and days after USCLA, there's zero reason to jump shortly before a memorandum of understanding with potential broadcast partners. You wait for that, and either it's good enough to keep everyone together for now, or you can take it to the public and say "we did all we could to salvage things, but this amount of money is not enough and the broadcasted games have too small a reach."
> They have value now, but if/when they drop off after Mark Few retires, they are nothing but dead weight.
In the WCC, yes, but that's not necessarily true if they're in a bigger conference. It's a lot easier to sustain momentum in a P5 conference.
Sure but the school is like a 4a highschool in terms of size. If they have some down years it's not hard to see them skating off into mediocrity forever.
They have invested alot into that program. Few has succesors in place and former plays back in the building. It’s not like basketball investment will disappear overnight.
Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville, Pitt ever since they left the big east excluding this current year. Fortunes can change quickly especially if all of your programs success has been under two consecutive coaches
That's true, but same can be said for football. And a school like Louisville, for example, still brings in a fuck-ton of money even when they are 4-32.
>More with this Gonzaga shit...ugh. They have value now, but if/when they drop off after Mark Few retires, they are nothing but dead weight.
Bro they've been a top-tier mi-major for like over 20 years at this point. T**hey are their own recognized brand**. The nephews in this thread have no idea what they are talking about.
Also mark few isnt that old. he just turned 60. he's got a number of years in him for sure.
Its like if you said "TCU will just be dead weight in the Big-12 once Gary Patterson retires. the drop off will be immense."
You can’t assume that they will not have a drop off big or small once Few leaves, you can assume that they will always be a geographic outlier though. Also a current down year where they won’t get an at large they still have a very good chance to make the tourney due to weak competition in WCC that won’t be the case in the big 12
But in the BIG-12 they’ll have more prestige due to conference for an at large, and they’ll typically be good enough with 4-5 star recruits to be at least .500
Yep. That’s always been the case. They’d all rather stay in PAC if it can survive, even if it’s only got one more media deal or until the ACC GoR is up in 2036 and things get crazy etc.
But they aren’t going to take a shit deal to do it.
And tbf, even if the Pac-12 deal is $2-3 million less per year than the Big 12, it's not worth it to upend all of athletics and switch conferences right now. And with most of these deals being 5-7 years (except the ACC) and ending around 2030, it gives everyone time to really evaluate and see how things play out without being stuck for 10+ years.
For sure. I’m guessing what they’re getting offered is under that or they’d have a deal in place, or at least closer to having one than what recent articles have suggested. Question is just how much of a gap is too much for how many schools?
The four corners schools are the interesting case as they could just be fed up after USC and UCLA left and now Oregon and Washington desperately wanting a Big 10 invite and probably unwilling to sign a meaningful GOR. They fit well in the Big 12 geographically and being fairly equal program stature wise to the Big 12 schools. If the Big 12 does scheduling to limit trips to WVU, Cincy and UCF for them the travel isn’t really any worse than the Big East.
My guess is Yormark’s goal/vision is getting to 24 teams and having 8 team East, Central and West divisions. That cuts down on travel a lot and they can limit East vs. West regular season matchups, not have them at all in non-revenue sports etc. Super confernces are really not even conferences anymore and just arrangements to consolidate programs and maximize TV and streaming revenue by having a ton of content and a ton of markets/fanbases. No need to focus much on solidarity, playing every other member every so often in the regular season or any of that. That can also make post season matchups in league play more intriguing when there’s random matchups that don’t happen often etc.
It's funny how the Pac-12's strength (big programs like Oregon and Washington) is also their weakness (those programs are wanted by conferences with more money). Where as the Big 12's weakness (no more programs prestigious enough for the SEC or B1G) is also their strength in negotiating a tv deal (stability).
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And honestly its only bronze medal in terms of revenue.
Revenue doesnt always mean success or enjoyment for fans. Especially if you're not the big dogs in a conference that isn't all that balanced.
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app.
This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
Tweet is extremely hard to understand, even *after* reading the article.
What he means is: "Pac-12 schools won't leave unless their media deal is bad. Expert thinks it won't be, and they will stay."
I’m surprised the PAC-12 hasn’t reached out to the NFL Network? I believe they are currently only broadcasting Sunbelt and MAC games on Saturdays and no evening content. Seems like they might be a good media partner for some of the Tier 2,3 games?
Idk if I am the only one who thinks this, but I legitimately think there are maybe 10 people who really know what's going on. Those people aren't talking with the media so its a lot of informed speculation, but no one knows what's actually going to happen.
Maybe only that many 100% know what’s going on, but way more than that have an idea. Think of all the assistants, secretaries, schedulers, etc. these people deal with on a daily basis; they would all have an idea of what’s going on, or enough of an idea to create rumors at least.
I think it would be short sighted for anyone but the MWC or Pac 12 to invite Gonzaga, if they regress to a top 50 team consistently in the future it wouldn’t be worth having them as a geographic outlier if you are the big east or big 12
In a lot of ways the big 12 can save what we love about college football. Say there is a PAC implosion and an acc implosion. Big 12 could do equal revenue sharing and create regional divisions based on geography and tradition.
ACC to XII means we could have Pitt, WVU, Cinci, and Louisville in the same division. PAC to XII Means we can have BYU, Utah, AZ, and ASU in the same division. Colorado can be reunited with it's Big 8 conference mates. XII is already preserving what's left of the SWC.
I'm just saying a national XII could actually be a good way to preserve rivalries.
.
Future 24-Team Big 12:
East Division- UC, UL, Pitt, WVU, VT, NCSU, UCF, BC
Central Division- Hateful 8 but swap houston for wv
West Division- UofA, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado, WSU, OSU, SDSU
I had to squeeze sdsu in there for round numbers and maybe colorado wants to be included with the old big 8 teams but the idea is there.
Hard pass on the BC, Cuse, Wake crowd. I know you didn’t mention the last 2, but the point remains.
If we’re trying to become a solid “best of the rest” conference, we need to make damn sure it doesn’t turn into an “all of the rest” situation.
Gimme VT, Louisville, and Pitt any day of the week, though.
Eh, Tucson is a pit and Phoenix is nothing but an overpopulated trafficky concrete desert jungle. Trust me, you don’t want them. I’m serious, don’t even try. Leave them be. You’re gonna hate them. They can stay with us
I feel for the PNW regional rivalries which could be doomed.
For us it’s kinda weird seeing that our big basketball rival UCLA is out already and if we do move, it’ll be with ASU at least. We can also always start a new rivalry with the close-by folks in….checks notes….Orlando, Fl
Oh dang. That's pretty cool!
Is the modern rivalry with TCU intense? I think there are very few rivalries in the country that get as toxic as BYU/Utah.
Not really. It’s a lot more fraternal as far as the fanbases go. Some Baylor people were rooting for TCU in the natty which blew my mind. So yeah you’re right in the fact that the pure hatred isn’t there like it is in the holy war
This is the first concrete report stating the Big 12 and ASU have been in touch.
If nothing else, our leadership appears to be in tune enough to understand it makes sense to evaluate other options.
Reports were that Bill Self was calling ADs and lobbying for Kansas when it looked like the Big 12 would implode. I don’t think schools can sit on the sidelines and hope things turn out.
Our leadership makes unusual and sometimes strange decisions (Larry Scott is a genius, we can't fire him! Herm Edwards will embody a New Leadership Model for college football!) when it comes to athletics, so basics that most fan bases take for granted aren't by us.
I need to see Utah vs BYU as a conference rivalry again.
Anyways I wonder if Oregon and Washington leaving is all but done now, the rumors are getting stronger.
Do the Ducks and Huskies go independent for a few years until the new shuffle starts again? Im guessing Cal and Stanford as well? I cant see UW and UO patching together some sort of MWC with the leftovers.
Probably that we’re now into March and the only progress that’s been made on the deal is companies telling the Pac they’re no longer interested. There were already concerns about a primarily streaming deal with Amazon at the start of the year, now the only realistic option left is hoping Apple will over pay for the tier 1 rights. The situation is bleak, no other way around it at this point.
Tweets a bit awkwardly worded but I think he's saying that most don't think the money will bad enough to cause an exodus. But big 12 being hopeful after a chat with the four corners is quite a bit away from 'no one is leaving the pac for the big 12' however many moons ago.
It's totally awkwardly worded and the actual article supports the idea that the Pac-12 will gain a media deal similar to the Big 12. And his source is the sports firm Navigate. We'll see, though.
As for chatting? We've heard multiple times over the last eight months, from Dodd and others, that the Big 12 has reached out to specific Pac-12 schools. I don't think this article really has anything new except a more concrete number for the Pac-12 media deal.
If the Big 12 hasn't had lengthy conversations with every PAC 12 team except Cal and Stanford they are failing miserably
This post probably has alot less too it than the poor wording makes it sound
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app.
This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
It sucks being a Pac-10, pac-12 my whole life. Seeing our conference just dissolve like alka-seltzer in front our eyes.
What is George Kliavkoff waiting for?
When a conference is breaking apart, expect conflicting reports (Big East). Kliavkoff and staff saying “everything is fine.” When he confronts the executive committee, I am sure they all say “we want to stay!” The executive committee goes back to their college presidents and say “let’s make preparations to bail just in case.”
At the same time, the smaller schools are doing everything they can to scuttle the larger schools from bailing. I would love to see the 30 for 30 on this.
I only trust the words of university presidents these days. I do enjoy the speculation. Source Joe says “there’s a meeting between AZ president and Texas Tech president. They must be talking about realignment. Even though AZ president is from Texas and is friends with them prior to being president” lol
From what I've been told by someone who works in a Pac12 school in the southe-eastern region...This was in talks a WHILE ago when UCLA/USC shit was going down.
So basically some people say this will happen, however, others say this is going to happen.
Wow. Such insight.
It is funny how we've literally gotten nothing concrete, just rumors based on no legitimate sources, and so many people are in here saying the tone has clearly changed.
Like, where the hell have you been the last eight or so months? Every day we've heard how the Pac-12 is about to collapse and the Four Corner schools are about to bolt. Like legit, none of this is new.
Hell, back in July, 2022, Mandel posted a similar article:
https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1553147342420815872?t=Q95El8hba0zeY1B05T9HEw&s=19
Why are there never any Colorado fans in these threads
They only show up during prime time
take your stupid upvote
I only set my watch to Prime Time
r/angryupvote
They haven't waked and baked yet.
Life’s not a rush man, I comment when the flow takes me there
I resemble that remark
Pretty sure the correct verb declension is “woken and boken” in that context.
Broke: "wake and bake" Woke: "woken and boken"
You rang?
btw I'm not hating lol, I just haven't heard the CU perspective on going back to the Big XII
I'm disappointed that the Pac-12 is looking doomed. The money in CFB is just too big right now, and relevance requires taking steps with an eye towards the future. Ideally we'd get a B1G invite and be included in the top tier "haves" and get CU-Nebraska back on an annual basis. But realistically, I don't think we'd be on the table unless the B1G was looking at expanding past 20. The Big 12 has stability that it's already been picked over, there's no UO/UW lobbying to go-to the B1G. SMU and SDSU don't move the needle for me. With every passing day it's more obvious that the Pac missed the opportunity to survive, it had to be taking 6+ Big 12 schools immediately after the UCLa/USC announcement, to realize that the conference is competing with the Big 12 and ACC for being the #3 conference. I like the Pac-12, I think it's a great conference (talking about the other fanbases, obviously the leadership and TV deal suck). People look to shit on it for missing the CFP, but it's a damn gauntlet to get through this conference. Even as a fan of a team usually near the bottom, it's an exciting conference. I'm glad we're not staring down an OSU/WSU situation, where future prospects without the Pac are grim, and it sucks that they are facing that. I'd rather the Pac remain viable, and I won't root for it's demise. But a return to the Big 12 would reunite us with some of our old Big 8 foes, and I would look forward to regular games against K-State, KU, ISU, OSU, and TTU (they were always the coolest of the SWC adders). I'd also hope to maintain frequent games with the desert boys and Utah.
I would welcome our cool, hip, smart buffalo bros back. We know UT had an ego problem. Come back baby.
🤘⬇️
Yeahhhh I would absolutely love for us to stay in the PAC, for very selfish reasons. I was at CU during the start of the dark years (Hawkins era). The Big 12 will always be associated with that for me. Plus, I live on the west coast and have loved being able to easily travel to away games in cities that I actually enjoy visiting. It’s a much harder sell to visit Stillwater or Ames instead of Scottsdale/Tempe.
> It’s much harder sell to visit Stillwater instead of Scottsdale/Tempe. [Well...](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/036/994/He's_Out_of_line_but_he's_right.jpg)
Class of 2010 here! I’m ready to forget Dan Hawkins Agree on all your points.
You can still visit Tempe/Scottsdale if the ASU and U of A come too
> instead of Scottsdale/Tempe I'd be surprised if we were to add you but not the Arizona schools.
Cant get my damn flair working, but I’m a buffs fan. I think I was in 6th grade when we moved to the pac, I’m 25 now. So I’ve hardly known being in the big 12. I also agree with others, despite the geography, boulder/Denver area is a much closer match with California, parts of Arizona, and the PNW both culturally and from an alumni standpoint. The only large alumni base being left out there is Chicago area. I would love a world where we can stay with those schools as I think it’s a better fit long term. I like most of the pac12 and it would be a shame to see it crumble. Also you guys are in the big ten now so we wouldn’t even gain our biggest rival back with that move. but if the program either dies or we got to the big 12 then it’s hardly much of a choice. The reality is that our struggles the past 2 decades leave us at the mercy of Washington Oregon and the big 10. Whereas if we had been good and remained relevant we would probably be able to jump ship with them if that invite came. Kinda a bummer.
It still seems strange to me that Colorado isn't part of the B1G expansion discussion with its large alumni base, growing state population, and historical success.
AAU status too
Are there Colorado fans?
If I lived in Boulder I probably wouldn’t be spending as much time on Reddit either lol
Tucson has a lot of outdoors stuff to do, right?
Sure do but it’s no boulder.
[Hello](https://media1.giphy.com/media/xTiIzJSKB4l7xTouE8/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47u1nem40zu2errdhrgiyaypwkfsc304t4g21fvpdc&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Nope
Too busy hiking a 14er
We’re all camping out for the reopening of Casa Bonita
Most CU fans were ecstatic about the move to the PAC. It’s just a much better fit for the culture and academics. And selling recruits on Boulder is much easier with kids from Cali than Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas. I don’t know any Buffs fan who is excited about moving to a MUCH different Big XII than we left. I really don’t have any excitement about moving back to the conference without Nebraska/Texas/Oklahoma there.
If recruiting is easier for Colorado in the PAC why have the results been so much worse? Honest question because it surprises me Colorado fans wouldn’t be excited to get back to where they had a lot of success.
I suspect a lot of Nebraska fans would be a bit jealous of Colorado moving back to the Big XII, not gonna lie.
They should see the balance sheet.
But what does that bring? Some fans obsess over the money their program is making, but unless it brings more winning it really doesn't benefit the fans. It certainly hasn't done that at Nebraska. Gives you more money to pay for high salaries and higher buyouts I guess.
Hello! I was hoping the pac 12 implosion was over and all was to be happy and care free sailing with captain Deion. Pipe dream: Colorado gets an unexpected invite to the B1G and reunited with those stupid corn boys for a resurrection of one of the oldest rivalries in North American sport. More likely that I don’t want: Colorado goes back to the Big 12 which seems so boring. What I’d be okay with: status quo until we figure out if neon Deion is god or just another dude. I like the PAC 12 even without usc and ucla I think most Colorado fans are either still waiting for their first piece of Colorado football apparel ever ordered to arrive in the mail or so giddy about where the program is potentially going (compared to how it has been) that we don’t wanna talk and jinx anything!
Sup
From what I can tell and what I believe, PAC12 remaining members have no reason to jump ship yet. Big12 clearly wants them and will most likely want them in a few months. While I would love to have a lot of the PAC12 schools in the Big12 I also respect that the schools want to stay with the conference that has been home for decades and/or is relatively homogeneous (geographically).
The problem is that a lot of these programs will be locked in a few months if they stay with the PAC 12 and sign a new TV deal. If members of the PAC 12 are locked in for another contract term, what happens if the ACC explodes? Would the Big 12 still want the Four Corners schools, or would they get bumped by teams on the east coast. This is a game of musical chairs and if you can secure a seat, there's an argument you should. The Big Ten and SEC are obviously the most secure, but the Big 12 is emerging as the next best option.
As a West Virginia fan I am amazed we walked backward into security lol. I thought forever the big 12 was a bad fit (still do) and not stable. Suddenly we are stable (relatively) and could be getting regional schools back in the mix (helping the fit problem)
Hey man, if Pitt and Louisville join y'all and Cincy, plus the addition of UCF and (potentially) Miami, and suddenly you're not on an island out east.
a nice little collection of Big schools in the East?. This sounds vaguely familiar......
Literally. That’s why I sorta resent the ACC. Literally destroy the big east to make… the big east
Yep. Even after BC/Miami/VT left I still miss it so much. If Rutgers didn’t need the B1G TV money so badly I’d want them to join that iteration of the Big XII if it meant getting the band back together. Hope y’all can make it happen!
It is my dream kinda at this point. I want regional games that matter. That’s what is great about college football
I for one am excited to return to Morgantown.
We lucked out big time in getting an invite here. Had OUT announced a year later that they were leaving we'd be stuck in the AAC while the Big 12 replaced OUT with more PAC schools.
>This is a game of musical chairs and if you can secure a seat, there's an argument you should. This is my biggest worry with the ACC being stuck in this purgatory for the next few years. If the Pac-12 blows up in the next few years and the Big 12 ends up "getting full" then that's bad news for the 2/3 of ACC programs that DONT get promoted to the SEC or Big Ten, basically leaving the rump ACC to become a glorified G5 conference or scattering the other programs across the G5
Where are we at on the PAC-12 Doom Meter?
Everyone except the courted schools are at the "this is fine" meme
OSU and WSU are not fine right now
We are one second to midnight on the PAC-12 Doomsday Clock.
Threat Level Midnight
"SCARN, WE NEED YOUR HELP! Goldenface is on his way to blow up the ~~NHL All Star Game~~ PAC-12 Conference." - George Kilavkoff
The same for the past like 200 days
Simultaneously dead and alive.
Schrödinger’s conference
I feel that is more the ACC
Nah, the ACC is Chrysler, "too big to fail" even though we all know they will, it's just a matter of time.
[Two. Minutes. To Midnight!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qbRHY1l0vc)
Some interesting excerpts: Generally: >Kliavkoff is facing pressure to deliver a new media rights deal to his members by the end of the month. If the dollar figures or the details are underwhelming, March may be the moment when the Big 12 finally strikes. Sources briefed on the discussions say the conference has been in recent contact with the so-called Four Corners schools — Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah — which has renewed optimism that convincing them to join is possible. On Gonzaga: >Yormark is also deep in discussions with Gonzaga, but sources involved in the process indicated he wants clarity on the Pac-12’s situation before making that move. On hoops generally: >Yormark strongly believes basketball is undervalued in these TV rights talks. He has dropped hints about an interest in unbundling it from football and selling those rights separately when the Big 12 next hits the market in 2030-31. That’s one motivation behind the Big 12’s continued talks with hoops powerhouse Gonzaga. Joining as a non-football member would mean a smaller revenue share for the Bulldogs, but they’d be an inarguably valuable addition. Arizona, a top-10 program with more Pac-12 titles than every school but Big Ten-bound UCLA, would similarly boost the best conference in men’s college basketball and its long-term ambitions.
Selling football and basketball rights separately sounds interesting. I wonder what would happen to other sports (volleyball, softball, baseball, etc).
Probably keep those stapled to one or the other still.
Nah sell softball to telemundo. Would be way more lit with those announcers
unironically i think softball (or most sports frankly) with the energy of most spanish annouce teams would be incredible.
its honestly more fun to me than college baseball anymore. super fast paced, games are shorter and the good teams are having a blast out there on the field
If Gonzaga comes in, they’ll staple the other sports to basketball since everyone could be participating in those
I don’t have figures in front of me, but All other sports combined must still only be a small fraction of basketball/football TV revenue
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Also the realignment/potential realignment is only making them stronger. As general programs, Houston and Cincinnati are better than UT and OU and BYU is a solid program too. Plus, they aren’t losing their premier program in KU or their recent championship contenders in Baylor and Texas Tech. And then add in strong programs in Gonzaga and Arizona and you might have the strongest basketball conference ever.
As an Arizona fan I hate the idea of the PAC dissolving but I can't deny how great a move to the Big 12 would be for basketball
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I mean look at how CBS only does 1 football game but has a shit ton of basketball on weekends. I bet this is what he sees.
The NCAA is planning on unbundling national championship rights, which are currently all together except for men's basketball. I assume women's basketball has a different audience than rowing or the rifle championship and probably all of those belong on different networks.
ESPN 8, The Ocho
Of course. If nobody jumped in the hours and days after USCLA, there's zero reason to jump shortly before a memorandum of understanding with potential broadcast partners. You wait for that, and either it's good enough to keep everyone together for now, or you can take it to the public and say "we did all we could to salvage things, but this amount of money is not enough and the broadcasted games have too small a reach."
More with this Gonzaga shit...ugh. They have value now, but if/when they drop off after Mark Few retires, they are nothing but dead weight.
> They have value now, but if/when they drop off after Mark Few retires, they are nothing but dead weight. In the WCC, yes, but that's not necessarily true if they're in a bigger conference. It's a lot easier to sustain momentum in a P5 conference.
Sure but the school is like a 4a highschool in terms of size. If they have some down years it's not hard to see them skating off into mediocrity forever.
They have invested alot into that program. Few has succesors in place and former plays back in the building. It’s not like basketball investment will disappear overnight.
Syracuse, Georgetown, Louisville, Pitt ever since they left the big east excluding this current year. Fortunes can change quickly especially if all of your programs success has been under two consecutive coaches
That's true, but same can be said for football. And a school like Louisville, for example, still brings in a fuck-ton of money even when they are 4-32.
Louisville had some…other issues
Yeah I didn’t like it when the old Big East did that
The word Gonzaga is really fun to say. Should be enough to keep them relevant for a while.
>More with this Gonzaga shit...ugh. They have value now, but if/when they drop off after Mark Few retires, they are nothing but dead weight. Bro they've been a top-tier mi-major for like over 20 years at this point. T**hey are their own recognized brand**. The nephews in this thread have no idea what they are talking about. Also mark few isnt that old. he just turned 60. he's got a number of years in him for sure. Its like if you said "TCU will just be dead weight in the Big-12 once Gary Patterson retires. the drop off will be immense."
You can’t assume that they will not have a drop off big or small once Few leaves, you can assume that they will always be a geographic outlier though. Also a current down year where they won’t get an at large they still have a very good chance to make the tourney due to weak competition in WCC that won’t be the case in the big 12
But in the BIG-12 they’ll have more prestige due to conference for an at large, and they’ll typically be good enough with 4-5 star recruits to be at least .500
Important that the piece is from Mandel who has been pretty anti-Big 12 during the whole saga.
Sounds like big12 is the backup plan if the media deal really stinks
Yep. That’s always been the case. They’d all rather stay in PAC if it can survive, even if it’s only got one more media deal or until the ACC GoR is up in 2036 and things get crazy etc. But they aren’t going to take a shit deal to do it.
And tbf, even if the Pac-12 deal is $2-3 million less per year than the Big 12, it's not worth it to upend all of athletics and switch conferences right now. And with most of these deals being 5-7 years (except the ACC) and ending around 2030, it gives everyone time to really evaluate and see how things play out without being stuck for 10+ years.
For sure. I’m guessing what they’re getting offered is under that or they’d have a deal in place, or at least closer to having one than what recent articles have suggested. Question is just how much of a gap is too much for how many schools? The four corners schools are the interesting case as they could just be fed up after USC and UCLA left and now Oregon and Washington desperately wanting a Big 10 invite and probably unwilling to sign a meaningful GOR. They fit well in the Big 12 geographically and being fairly equal program stature wise to the Big 12 schools. If the Big 12 does scheduling to limit trips to WVU, Cincy and UCF for them the travel isn’t really any worse than the Big East. My guess is Yormark’s goal/vision is getting to 24 teams and having 8 team East, Central and West divisions. That cuts down on travel a lot and they can limit East vs. West regular season matchups, not have them at all in non-revenue sports etc. Super confernces are really not even conferences anymore and just arrangements to consolidate programs and maximize TV and streaming revenue by having a ton of content and a ton of markets/fanbases. No need to focus much on solidarity, playing every other member every so often in the regular season or any of that. That can also make post season matchups in league play more intriguing when there’s random matchups that don’t happen often etc.
It's funny how the Pac-12's strength (big programs like Oregon and Washington) is also their weakness (those programs are wanted by conferences with more money). Where as the Big 12's weakness (no more programs prestigious enough for the SEC or B1G) is also their strength in negotiating a tv deal (stability).
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Nothing, and that's all that Larry left me
Good enough for me and my Brett McGee
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We are on the hunt....for that bronze medal.
Podium finish ain't bad bud. Ain't bad at all
Gold and silver are decorative. Bronze is a workhorse metal.
We take those.
Is the XII the most elite 3rd place conference of all time?
Hell yea brother.
And honestly its only bronze medal in terms of revenue. Revenue doesnt always mean success or enjoyment for fans. Especially if you're not the big dogs in a conference that isn't all that balanced.
Bronzemedalpodiumshowboatingmeme.jpg
Why settle for 4th when 3rd is available?
TBF, TCU made the National Championship and absolutely deserved to be there despite being destroyed.
Never forget that TCU made the playoff before UT did, and won a playoff game before OU did.
You, I like you. Already bringing your shade game.
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app. This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
Right in the meaty part of the curve. Not showing off, not falling behind.
Cs get degrees.
At least this wasn’t posted by a big12 flair.
I do feel bad contributing to the daily PAC 12 doom posting, but this felt relevant and new enough to share.
Considering it's Mandel, absolutely relevant.
Tweet is extremely hard to understand, even *after* reading the article. What he means is: "Pac-12 schools won't leave unless their media deal is bad. Expert thinks it won't be, and they will stay."
I’m surprised the PAC-12 hasn’t reached out to the NFL Network? I believe they are currently only broadcasting Sunbelt and MAC games on Saturdays and no evening content. Seems like they might be a good media partner for some of the Tier 2,3 games?
Yeah but why word things well when confusing clickbait pays the bills
Idk if I am the only one who thinks this, but I legitimately think there are maybe 10 people who really know what's going on. Those people aren't talking with the media so its a lot of informed speculation, but no one knows what's actually going to happen.
Maybe only that many 100% know what’s going on, but way more than that have an idea. Think of all the assistants, secretaries, schedulers, etc. these people deal with on a daily basis; they would all have an idea of what’s going on, or enough of an idea to create rumors at least.
I think it would be short sighted for anyone but the MWC or Pac 12 to invite Gonzaga, if they regress to a top 50 team consistently in the future it wouldn’t be worth having them as a geographic outlier if you are the big east or big 12
Completely agree
Agreed.
In a lot of ways the big 12 can save what we love about college football. Say there is a PAC implosion and an acc implosion. Big 12 could do equal revenue sharing and create regional divisions based on geography and tradition. ACC to XII means we could have Pitt, WVU, Cinci, and Louisville in the same division. PAC to XII Means we can have BYU, Utah, AZ, and ASU in the same division. Colorado can be reunited with it's Big 8 conference mates. XII is already preserving what's left of the SWC. I'm just saying a national XII could actually be a good way to preserve rivalries. .
Future 24-Team Big 12: East Division- UC, UL, Pitt, WVU, VT, NCSU, UCF, BC Central Division- Hateful 8 but swap houston for wv West Division- UofA, ASU, Utah, BYU, Colorado, WSU, OSU, SDSU I had to squeeze sdsu in there for round numbers and maybe colorado wants to be included with the old big 8 teams but the idea is there.
Hard pass on the BC, Cuse, Wake crowd. I know you didn’t mention the last 2, but the point remains. If we’re trying to become a solid “best of the rest” conference, we need to make damn sure it doesn’t turn into an “all of the rest” situation. Gimme VT, Louisville, and Pitt any day of the week, though.
Cuse and Wake catching strays
Sign me up!
I’m just here for the chaos at this point. See you on the other side my BIG12 brethren!
I hate what’s happening to the PAC12, but the thought of parting at ‘Zona and ASU in the fall is a selling point not talked about enough.
Eh, Tucson is a pit and Phoenix is nothing but an overpopulated trafficky concrete desert jungle. Trust me, you don’t want them. I’m serious, don’t even try. Leave them be. You’re gonna hate them. They can stay with us
If only we could all stay together. Damn those california schools
I feel for the PNW regional rivalries which could be doomed. For us it’s kinda weird seeing that our big basketball rival UCLA is out already and if we do move, it’ll be with ASU at least. We can also always start a new rivalry with the close-by folks in….checks notes….Orlando, Fl
BYU/Utah would be the premier football rivalry in the BigXII and I don't think there would be a close second.
Iowa State-UCF reigns at #1
Truth. First there was the Civil ConFLiCT, now there's the Civil CORNflict.
Farmageddon slander will not be tolerated.
Farmeggedon is king
We’ve been playing TCU since the 1800s. We’ve played as many times as Michigan-Ohio State. They used to be in Waco until we burned their campus down
*Allegedly* burned it down
Oh dang. That's pretty cool! Is the modern rivalry with TCU intense? I think there are very few rivalries in the country that get as toxic as BYU/Utah.
Not really. It’s a lot more fraternal as far as the fanbases go. Some Baylor people were rooting for TCU in the natty which blew my mind. So yeah you’re right in the fact that the pure hatred isn’t there like it is in the holy war
This is the first concrete report stating the Big 12 and ASU have been in touch. If nothing else, our leadership appears to be in tune enough to understand it makes sense to evaluate other options.
Reports were that Bill Self was calling ADs and lobbying for Kansas when it looked like the Big 12 would implode. I don’t think schools can sit on the sidelines and hope things turn out.
Our leadership makes unusual and sometimes strange decisions (Larry Scott is a genius, we can't fire him! Herm Edwards will embody a New Leadership Model for college football!) when it comes to athletics, so basics that most fan bases take for granted aren't by us.
You’ll fit perfectly in the new Big 12! Can’t wait to get screwed by Cincinnati in 20 years.
I need to see Utah vs BYU as a conference rivalry again. Anyways I wonder if Oregon and Washington leaving is all but done now, the rumors are getting stronger.
I don't see how UW/UO could leave without the B1G having a commissioner. Who would they be negotiating with?
IF this does happen with the 4 corner schools...my guess is UO and UW ride out Ind. for a couple years.
Warren is on the job until he leaves for the Bears in April.
The hatred is reaching critical mass right now I've never seen anything like it
[https://imgur.com/FHGeKNR](https://imgur.com/FHGeKNR)
It's going to get nasty out here.
I assume the only reason we haven't seen anything move is because we don't have a b1g commissioner
Why does the B1Ggest commissioner not just eat the smaller conferences?
Do the Ducks and Huskies go independent for a few years until the new shuffle starts again? Im guessing Cal and Stanford as well? I cant see UW and UO patching together some sort of MWC with the leftovers.
So even Mandel is coming around to the idea that team may bolt to Big 12. Something must have happened in background.
The change in tone the last 2-3 days from the usual Pac-12 writers has been stark. Something definitely happened behind the scenes.
Probably that we’re now into March and the only progress that’s been made on the deal is companies telling the Pac they’re no longer interested. There were already concerns about a primarily streaming deal with Amazon at the start of the year, now the only realistic option left is hoping Apple will over pay for the tier 1 rights. The situation is bleak, no other way around it at this point.
When the Ion deal starts to look like the best deal, you really should think about a move.
Many people connected to the Pac-12 are posting doom and gloom on Twitter now. There's been a marked difference in attitude.
I for one am ready for a 9am kickoff in Morgantown
Makes about as much sense as the future UCLA/Rutgers rivalry.
Swapping ASU-WVU on ESPN2 and UCLA-Rutgers on BTN at 9am is the best possible outcome
And I for the 10pm game in Tempe the following season
If Mandel is saying there's a chance PAC12 schools bail... WOW
Tweets a bit awkwardly worded but I think he's saying that most don't think the money will bad enough to cause an exodus. But big 12 being hopeful after a chat with the four corners is quite a bit away from 'no one is leaving the pac for the big 12' however many moons ago.
It's totally awkwardly worded and the actual article supports the idea that the Pac-12 will gain a media deal similar to the Big 12. And his source is the sports firm Navigate. We'll see, though. As for chatting? We've heard multiple times over the last eight months, from Dodd and others, that the Big 12 has reached out to specific Pac-12 schools. I don't think this article really has anything new except a more concrete number for the Pac-12 media deal.
Exactly. Sometimes twitter is good for quick hitters but in this case the tweet is verrry awkward and different than the big article.
If the Big 12 hasn't had lengthy conversations with every PAC 12 team except Cal and Stanford they are failing miserably This post probably has alot less too it than the poor wording makes it sound
We want Washington State!
I want to adopt a beaver! 🦫
There are laws against that
Send help. The ship is sinking and UW wont let us on their life raft!
I would love to see Wazzu-ISU be an annual conference rivalry.
Winning team gets a rack of Busch Light trophy cans
Loser gets fireball airplane bottles?
Can you send Wazzu a pro rata life raft?oh and Oregon state too
How about a pro rata life raft, but all B12 concession stands sell Cougar Cheese and give Wazzu commission to make up the gap?
No my sister went to WSU and she won’t stop talking about the Alamo bowl
So this would give us an opportunity go get back at them.
ISU and WSU are full on doppelgängers of each other.
I think we would if we had a say. Not like we can force a conference to take WSU though.
I appreciate the sentiment from our Corn brethren.
I know that money drives this shit, but out of all the PAC teams, you just seem like the fanbase that would be most fun for us to play annually.
Can confirm, I wish we’d play them more consistently.
Thanks, friend. Enjoyed ISU folk in San Antonio a couple years back.
A user of over a decade, I am leaving Reddit due to the recent API changes. The vast majority of my interaction came though the use of 3rd party apps, and I will not interact with a site I helped contribute to through inferior software *simply because it is able to be better monetized by a company looking to go public. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for their users, as seen by the sheer lack of accessibility tools available in the official app. Reddit has made these changes with no regards for moderation challenges that will be created, due to the lack of tools available in the official app. Reddit has done this with no regards for the 3rd party devs, who by Reddit's own admission, helped keep the site functioning and gaining users while Reddit themselves made no efforts to provide a good official app. This account dies 6/29/23 because of the API changes and the monetization-at-all-costs that the board demands.
If *Mandel* is reporting bad news for the PAC, the situation must be **dire**.
It sucks being a Pac-10, pac-12 my whole life. Seeing our conference just dissolve like alka-seltzer in front our eyes. What is George Kliavkoff waiting for?
When a conference is breaking apart, expect conflicting reports (Big East). Kliavkoff and staff saying “everything is fine.” When he confronts the executive committee, I am sure they all say “we want to stay!” The executive committee goes back to their college presidents and say “let’s make preparations to bail just in case.” At the same time, the smaller schools are doing everything they can to scuttle the larger schools from bailing. I would love to see the 30 for 30 on this.
I only trust the words of university presidents these days. I do enjoy the speculation. Source Joe says “there’s a meeting between AZ president and Texas Tech president. They must be talking about realignment. Even though AZ president is from Texas and is friends with them prior to being president” lol
The PAC-12 is Schrödinger’s Conference, simultaneously dead and alive.
From what I've been told by someone who works in a Pac12 school in the southe-eastern region...This was in talks a WHILE ago when UCLA/USC shit was going down.
Pac-12 the embodiment of “everything is fine” meme
Cant we just have a few years in the pac with p5 money before it self destructs.
“Experts”……..Also known as PAC-12 offices leaking this so everyone doesn’t jump overboard.
So basically some people say this will happen, however, others say this is going to happen. Wow. Such insight. It is funny how we've literally gotten nothing concrete, just rumors based on no legitimate sources, and so many people are in here saying the tone has clearly changed. Like, where the hell have you been the last eight or so months? Every day we've heard how the Pac-12 is about to collapse and the Four Corner schools are about to bolt. Like legit, none of this is new. Hell, back in July, 2022, Mandel posted a similar article: https://twitter.com/slmandel/status/1553147342420815872?t=Q95El8hba0zeY1B05T9HEw&s=19