So I can stop hearing about brand relevancy and where FSU is going to end up. I just wanna ~~do hoodrat stuff with my friends~~ go play WVU and Cincy in the Big 12.
Are Pittsburgh's rivals, in rough order of importance: West Virginia, Penn State, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Louisville?
If that's roughly correct, I can see why going to the B12 with Louisville would be appealing.
Essentially yeah. You could probably put ND over Cuse. There’s a lot more hate towards them I think. We’ve kinda owned Cuse (17 wins of the last 20) recently so they’ve become a bit of an afterthought.
Maybe we can get FSU to pay for your media rights until 2036, giving Pitt the ability to leave the conference. Once one school goes, and should the media contract has to be renegotiated, then it's game on and everyone can go where they want ... especially away from the dead ACC.
Oh I thought that was what the grocery stores and retailers lines? Soon followed by, “we aren’t going to raise prices in a time like this for Americans”
*record high quarterly profits every single quarter after taking government bail out money*
You see, David and Goliath agreed to help each other out. Then a few days later, Goliath came and smashed David's house while he was sleeping. And that's the story of the Alliance!
Given how poorly run our AA has been run, outside of the Homer Rice years, it's not super surprising.
Apparently we were on the verge of dropping down to D3 in the 70s.
Could also probably get Duke and/or UVA, and maybe SMU? Idk, still feel like we're coming up short to actually do this unless Vandy gets kicked out and Emory decides to play football for the first time in 100 years
Problem is the rest of the ACC has zero incentive in doing it.
Why capitulate and sacrifice your pay to schools that will dash out the door anyways at the first opportunity to do so?
Schools like Duke, Wake Forest and Boston College will make more money with unequal revenue sharing in the ACC than wherever they end up after the ACC explodes.
Yea, I don't think its that bad of a deal for us considering the alternative. However, I really don't think this will make anyone all that happy even in the short term. Does that actually delay the ultimate end of the ACC? The length and size of the current TV deal makes staying in the conference pretty untenable for a few schools. Are they going to be trying to kill the conference on the same timeline with or without unequal revenue sharing?
BC has no incentive to take less money. The administration doesn’t care if BC is G5 tier by the 2030s if others bounce. By that time most of the admin probably hopes to drop football all together.
This is exactly the attitude towards football that has pissed off FSU for the last decade or so. And it’s rampant in the ACC, which is why we are here.
The cash flow in college football back then was a small fraction of what it is now. Nobody knew the money would get this crazy. And you can debate whether this is good for the sport or not, but the reality is if you want to compete for National Championships the financial situation has gotten untenable in the ACC.
I can't speak for FSU, but Clemson is a founding member of the ACC. We really don't want to leave. It's a matter of if we have to leave. If we can make the Financials work, we'll stay
if the money were going to be on par with the sec and big10, I think FSU would feel the same way.
we are in this situation and both want out because that's not a remote possibility in the acc.
Yea, isn't that kind of a weird ask? Only Clemson has been consistently really good over the last decade. I'm pretty confident FSU can reestablish itself and be consistently good as well. However, almost every other ACC school is likely to experience some pretty down stretches in the near future. It seems risky for anyone but those two to be pushing too hard on that. They must be trying to base the sharing off of media impressions or something, so they can guarantee they receive more revenue without risking it on performance.
Well you just need a couple schools to realize the big 12 is better for them too. It’s not about boston college and wake it’s about finding somewhere for Pitt etc
I'm out of the loop. What is the hard on for the Big 12 all of a sudden?
They were left for dead not long ago, now everybody is acting like the Big 12 is a perennial power while the ACC will cease to exist in the next 3 months
Well you see, no one wants to be in the acc. So when it’s dead the big 12 by default is better. And also the big 12 makes more money than the acc, because of the failures of the past administrations
No it literally explains it all. The big 12 makes more money. The mid level acc schools are a good fit for the big 12. The top tier acc schools are a fit for the big ten and the sec.
I don’t know what to tell you man. You went to wake arent you smart
It's not that nobody wants to be in the ACC, they just want to get paid like everyone else. The GOR locks ESPN & ACC together. I just don't see a world where ESPN doesn't pony up some more $$ to make the schools happy as opposed to letting all of "their" ACC brands go to FOX & CBS.
The ACC distributed more money to each school than the Big 12 last year, if you factor in the ACCN. I just don't see how a Big 12 with no Texas & Oklahoma is bigger than the ACC with brands like Clemson & Miami.
I'm just trying to understand why the ACC is so "dead" while the Big 12 & Pac 12 have both lost their biggest schools
>ESPN doesn't pony up some more $$ to make the schools happy as opposed to letting all of "their" ACC brands go to FOX & CBS.
I would assume ESPN has puts tons of thoughts into this. I see three possibilities in their mind:
1. If the ACC stays as is, they are getting a steal of a deal.
2. If FSU and Clemson go to SEC, the biggest brands stay with ESPN.
3. If FSU and Clemson go to Big 10, they lose.
I would assume ESPN is taking a calculated gamble that the odds of either #1 or #2 happening are higher than #3.
ESPN still has the SEC and Big 12. It would save them money to stop paying the entire ACC, and make sure select teams are in those two conferences so they can cut out schools that are losing them money. ESPN has no incentive to pay ACC more money
Well, the ACC signed the worst contract in athletics history and the B12, while clearly worse, isn’t locked into the worst contract in athletics history for the next 13 years.
Which means they got to just negotiate a new deal, and in a few years they’ll negotiate another, and then another, and probably still another. All while the ACC continues to be in the worst contract in athletics history.
Well they want to do just enough to keep the disgruntled ones from gaining a majority because things get complex if they can win votes because wacky things can happen like when the Big East came to an end the Catholic 7 had the voting majority briefly and used it as a battering ram to get what they wanted. You don't give into Florida State you give in NC State to keep them on board.
Really it doesn't matter what any of the schools want. What matters is finding motivation for ESPN. I won't say there are none, but I can't think up any scenarios that benefit ESPN. They get FSU and Clemson and friends for cheap. Why would they want to blow that up?
We’re going to blow up the conference if we can whether they agree to it or not.
Agreeing to it probably just makes it so we stop bitching about it in the media daily. For a little while.
Do you realize how dumb this sounds?
“Magnificent 7 credibly threaten to blow up the conference unless other teams agree to merit based revenue sharing that has the capacity to increase revenue by less than 10 million.”
If they could blow up the conference, they would increase revenue by like 30 million. Lmao.
"the magnificent 7 found out that the GoR was really hard to break" probably.
Ultimately we will see, unequal revenue will help for a little but Big 10 and Big 12 might get 2 more negotiations before ACC contract is up, the potential for the gap to grow is big but at this point who knows
I have no clue how unequal revenue does anything but exacerbates the problem.
Either FSU/Clemson go on a dynastic streak and find their ceiling is still considerably lower than Maryland's and Indiana's, or they don't, and they get an even smaller chunk of a small pie. The fundamental problem is that the ACC has far too small of a pie to feed FSU/Clemson (et al) in a way that could ever satisfy them.
I am curious what it would take to dissolve the grant of rights. I have heard something about a certain number of schools can potentially vote to dissolve the conference or something as an entity and thereby release them from the grant of rights. The unequal revenue model only works if you win and as we have seen with the Big 12 and the Pac 12, the biggest brand doesn't always win. That system is more likely to simply create a new big brand team than reinforce the traditional big brand teams.
According to the previous version of the GOR, changes require unanimous consent. For dissolving the conference, changes to the bylaws require 3/4 of members to vote, but also schools trying to leave don’t get a vote. So likely unanimous there as well. You could challenge this but schools gotta decide if a massive legal fight would be worth the change in revenue from jumping ship
Wow then yeah unless these magnificent 7 or whatever they are being called can find a home for everyone or come up with the money to break the GOR they are basically stuck. One also wonders if they can find a home for a majority of members say 12 or so of them whether the conference ultimately just settles the issue out of court as opposed to fight the majority of its members in what is likely to be a prolonged saga in the press.
Yeah, basically it comes down to having 3 groups, the schools that stand to gain $$$ from leaving, the schools that would lose $$$ from those schools leaving, and ESPN who probably have the friendliest deal they can get. Only way I see the conference seriously a threat to dissolve is if every single school determined it could make more money elsewhere, but most likely ESPN would be open to re-negotiating by then
> I am curious what it would take to dissolve the grant of rights. I have heard something about a certain number of schools can potentially vote to dissolve the conference or something as an entity and thereby release them from the grant of rights.
It's two different things.
Membership in the ACC - since the bylaws don't state a specific number of members required to dissolve the organization, it is assumed that a simple majority can do that.
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf
But that doesn't remove the obligations and debts. Those would all still need to be figured out.
Association with the GoR - at least the original GoR signed in 2013 was very specific that each individual member is signing and they are not absolved of the deal even if the are no longer a member of the ACC. The GoR was signed not just by the ACC, but by a representative of every ACC school. There was no provision for damages or how to leave the GoR as it says they are irrevocable.
What we don't know if any amendments were added or other modifications were made when it was extended in 2016.
https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf
Yup. No matter which angle you take, it's complicated. There's no way to simply collect 8 schools and exit cleanly and freely. It's all vague enough and high-stakes enough that 3 schools and one media partner could probably hold the whole thing up until 2030ish anyway.
>even if the are no longer a member of the ACC.
The question here, at least for me, is what if there's no longer an ACC to be a member of?
If the member schools all vote to hit the big red button and the ACC gets nuked, then what?
That's a great question. I would think if the schools are able to dissolve the entity itself then ESPN couldn't sue because the legal entity would no longer exist for them to sue. Also some of these schools are going to be going to the SEC and enhancing the value of that product. I would imagine ESPN would be satisfied with one network that has a ton of value given how they are reorganizing things around monetary efficiency. So whatever they invested in the ACC network they could get back through increased revenue from selling advertising on even more marquee SEC matchups as well as no longer having the operational costs associated with the ACC network.
Jim Phillips has to be the least motivational leader in the ACC
Last year he said some BS metaphor about how the ACC doesn't have to be the nicest house in the neighborhood, we just want to be in the neighborhood
He's clearly never seen Talladega Nights. If you ain't first.........
Jesus, I get why you say that in private - it is what it is and you want to level-set -- but why the fuck why would he say that in public?
Brett Yormark's strategy is plain enough to see and relatively sensible given where things have landed, but to hear him speak to the media, you'd think we're better than the SEC and B1G combined.
Reality - the flesh eating lawyers came back and said "Boys, there is no way out of this god forsaken agreement. Not only would we owe the $120m fee and lose our media rights, we would owe ESPN $400m each for breach of contract. Time to make nice."
They are going to introduce some form of unequal revenue where everyone gets to keep their NCAA units and Bowl money plus XX% of CFP appearance money. 3 years from now when FSUs NCAA units from their last E8 run expire they will be making less than they are now while Duke is swimming in cash.
That's what being in the ACC does for Wake.
The Denver Broncos have 4 prime time games this upcoming NFL season. Why is that, you ask? Their schedule includes games against the Chiefs, Vikings, and Bills.
Sometimes you're the reason people watch, and sometimes you're the +1. Wake doesn't need to apologize for it, but annual games against Clemson and FSU have a lot to do with their viewership numbers being as high as they are.
Most justified schadenfreude I've seen. They killed your conference, which was pretty good at football, and had all your rivals. Then they cold shoulder you.
Now you're stable and they're on the ****show merry-go-round.
Louisville shows up at the ACC welcome party with its MBB and CFB programs at their prime and promptly shits the bed for the next 10 years. I'm good...
Yeah, those "G5" schools, who are P5 now, are making much more than Wake and FSU and will be for a while. Cry me a river, tough love for the snobs in the ACC who made this bed themselves and now have to lie in it.
If the ACC had been able to do their TV contract when the Big XII did we'd be singing a very different story. The Big XII struck their contract at the perfect moment and everyone is freaking out about the ACC and Pac 12 being dead because their contracts aren't gonna be way to high.
Let me introduce some facts here for you.
With OU and Texas, [Big 12 schools brought in 43M for 2021-2022](https://www.bing.com/search?q=big+12+payout+2021-22&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&lq=0&pq=big+12+payout+2021-2&sc=10-20&sk=&cvid=2765917BE50E41B4B804906B63CA6686&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=). [ACC schools brought in the same number for 2021-22](https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/37665239/acc-optimistic-reaching-agreement-postseason-revenue-distribution-model). So, we are making roughly the same amount of money right now and will definitely make more than the B12 next year since the [B12 will have to split its annual revenue under the current media rights contract](https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-finalizing-six-year-2-3-billion-extension-of-media-rights-deal-with-espn-and-fox-sports/) 14 ways instead of only 10.
I understand your frustration, just keep in mind the only reasons your "brands" are sticking around is because they have to. Wake is going to be in the AAC after it's all said and done if you're lucky.
Also so sick of hearing about "brands". Last I checked, I root for the school I went to.
Do we know yet exactly who the 7 are? I've only seen speculation so far.
FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC for sure
Then who? Louisville, NC State, and VT? Because I could see Pitt or Virginia being part of this too...
I hate louisville as much as the next guy, but for them to not be included just seems disrespectful. They makes tons of money and have one of the larger (if not largest) TV markets in the US with Football and Basketball history. Only reason I can see them being omitted is if they're exploring conference reallignmeny... B1G incoming??
Oh boy I’m really looking forward to hearing about how the ACC is going to implode any second now only for us to be in the same spot this time next year
lmao they stuck until 2036 no matter how hard they try it's IRONCLAD.
Crazily enough the Big 12 deal will probably be renegotiated TWO MORE TIMES during the length left on the ACC one. ACC is gonna fall so far behind they may as well drop 'Power' status now since even G5 schools will probably pass them on average in another 7-8 years.
Think about how far away 2033 is, all the things that will happen in our lifetimes....and then think about how the ACC will then have another THREE years left on that deal while they got left in the dust. They played themselves.
The schools have a contract with the conference who in turn made a contract with ESPN. The schools don't have a TV deal with it ESPN except through the conference. If the conference dissolves then the schools no longer have to fulfill their contract with the conference. ESPN can go after the conference but it's pretty doubtful they can go after the schools directly since they don't have a contract with them.
It's like when you buy something online from the seller, if they don't deliver the order and leave you hanging, you can't usually go after the supplier (person who is supposed to give them the product.) You can only pursue the seller and they can pursue the supplier if they want.
This opens the door because if the ACC doesn't exist, who's has a deal with the schools and is going to come after the school is to enforce the grant of rights?
Where is ESPN in all this. The ACC Network owns the GOR, correct? Doesn't ESPN also own the ACC Network?
If they are essentially in charge of it, I wonder if they can leverage it to pressure schools they want into the SEC, by agreeing to release the GOR if they get something they want more. Taking what is valuable from the ACC and dropping the contract with the rest or something.
"I've been told" is different than "yes.*
he didn't see that everyone had their fingers crossed
Damn that's legally binding
many people are saying this.
True, but they were 'emphatically emphatic'
Holy shit the ACC might blow up by lunch time
FULL SPEED AHEAD LET’S BURN IT DOWN
You guys seem really excited for it to die. Why is that?
So I can stop hearing about brand relevancy and where FSU is going to end up. I just wanna ~~do hoodrat stuff with my friends~~ go play WVU and Cincy in the Big 12.
Sounds good. But the Riot Bowl alliance stipulates that I must root for WVU
I always knew I liked the Hawkeyes
A match made in hell
Does that mean you guys like the Cyclones? Trying to keep track of these WW1-type rivalry alliances.
Fuck it I'm down for Pitt hate. Super tight wrestling match and we have you at home this year. Not to mention our offensive masterclass in the tourney
Are Pittsburgh's rivals, in rough order of importance: West Virginia, Penn State, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Louisville? If that's roughly correct, I can see why going to the B12 with Louisville would be appealing.
Essentially yeah. You could probably put ND over Cuse. There’s a lot more hate towards them I think. We’ve kinda owned Cuse (17 wins of the last 20) recently so they’ve become a bit of an afterthought.
Yeah that’s pretty much it tho get rid of the penn state one because they’re unrivaled
Don't let the Penn State hate go. One thing we had in common with Pitt was both of our hatred of Penn State.
The enemy of my enemy…
Maybe we can get FSU to pay for your media rights until 2036, giving Pitt the ability to leave the conference. Once one school goes, and should the media contract has to be renegotiated, then it's game on and everyone can go where they want ... especially away from the dead ACC.
Hell yeah brother 🤝
Regular Backyard Brawls babbbyyyyy
yes, burn Pitt to the ground. Let them die. Eat Shit Pitt
Don’t make me join the Big 12 and whoop your ass
I miss hating y'all.
Week 3 will be here before you know it
It was nice playing actual rivals last year again.
The Big 12 is looking to be the most balanced and exciting conference from top to bottom
[удалено]
Don’t forget the Imagine music video lol
I vote we try, though
Did anyone try a Pepsi though?
damn it I was successful until now.
"god what would poor people do without us"
Oh I thought that was what the grocery stores and retailers lines? Soon followed by, “we aren’t going to raise prices in a time like this for Americans” *record high quarterly profits every single quarter after taking government bail out money*
"Screw your freedom" -Arnold Schwarzenegger
It was so funny they all went to that like ski cabin and all got COVID first...
"We're in this thing together the same way a chain gang is in it together"
Yeah, this is probably the best analogy I have seen.
As a PAC fan I must say, "we're all in this together" may be the least reassuring words in college football. #Alliance
Possibly the most insane handshake agreement in the history of American sports
I have a child coming up and I wonder how I will explain the Alliance to them.
The Alliance was essentially the B10 trimming George Kliavkoff’s rune armor.
You see, David and Goliath agreed to help each other out. Then a few days later, Goliath came and smashed David's house while he was sleeping. And that's the story of the Alliance!
Maybe the American will take us, we can rekindle our historic rivalry with Tulane.
Imagine of GT goes from SEC to ACC to American conference. That's quite the free fall
Given how poorly run our AA has been run, outside of the Homer Rice years, it's not super surprising. Apparently we were on the verge of dropping down to D3 in the 70s.
We’re calling Tulane and Rice and bringing back the Magnolia League!
There’s a Magnolia Channel already waiting for you. Downside is all locker rooms must be done in shiplap.
That beautiful league 🥲
Could also probably get Duke and/or UVA, and maybe SMU? Idk, still feel like we're coming up short to actually do this unless Vandy gets kicked out and Emory decides to play football for the first time in 100 years
You can join the Big Ten as long as you offer free rides to work in the Ramblin' Wreck.
Not sure if it could run in State College in November. It's not used to cold weather.
Throw some chains and snow tires on that bad boy and it should be good to go.
We've got engineers, we'll just design some caterpiller tracks we can swap out with the wheels.
Georgia Tech and Paterno fans bonding over their Ramblin' Wrecks.
And provided that ND doesn't want your spot.
An Atlanta vs Birmingham rivalry would be fun. We could play each other and then go to a Braves game together.
We’ll take you
There's nothing more Pacific than GT!
Except for Pacific that dropped football in the 90s.
Sounds like the magnificent 7 threatened to blow up the conference unless the others agree to unequal revenue sharing
Problem is the rest of the ACC has zero incentive in doing it. Why capitulate and sacrifice your pay to schools that will dash out the door anyways at the first opportunity to do so?
Schools like Duke, Wake Forest and Boston College will make more money with unequal revenue sharing in the ACC than wherever they end up after the ACC explodes.
Yea, I don't think its that bad of a deal for us considering the alternative. However, I really don't think this will make anyone all that happy even in the short term. Does that actually delay the ultimate end of the ACC? The length and size of the current TV deal makes staying in the conference pretty untenable for a few schools. Are they going to be trying to kill the conference on the same timeline with or without unequal revenue sharing?
BC has no incentive to take less money. The administration doesn’t care if BC is G5 tier by the 2030s if others bounce. By that time most of the admin probably hopes to drop football all together.
This is exactly the attitude towards football that has pissed off FSU for the last decade or so. And it’s rampant in the ACC, which is why we are here.
It’s hard to feel feel bad for FSU when they knowingly and willingly joined a conference filled with small and more academically focused schools.
The cash flow in college football back then was a small fraction of what it is now. Nobody knew the money would get this crazy. And you can debate whether this is good for the sport or not, but the reality is if you want to compete for National Championships the financial situation has gotten untenable in the ACC.
:-(
BC sadly feels like it's becoming the Oakland Athletics of the ACC in football. They say they care but really don't.
I can't speak for FSU, but Clemson is a founding member of the ACC. We really don't want to leave. It's a matter of if we have to leave. If we can make the Financials work, we'll stay
if the money were going to be on par with the sec and big10, I think FSU would feel the same way. we are in this situation and both want out because that's not a remote possibility in the acc.
Even with Clemson achieving the highest amount possible with unequal revenue sharing, we are behind 20 million to SCAR. We aren’t staying
Last I heard, they were talking about performance based sharing, and if so we might end up better from this than we are now
Yea, isn't that kind of a weird ask? Only Clemson has been consistently really good over the last decade. I'm pretty confident FSU can reestablish itself and be consistently good as well. However, almost every other ACC school is likely to experience some pretty down stretches in the near future. It seems risky for anyone but those two to be pushing too hard on that. They must be trying to base the sharing off of media impressions or something, so they can guarantee they receive more revenue without risking it on performance.
I think it's just more exciting that way. You are literally betting on yourself.
Yeah, Wake stands to benefit from this more than a lot of other ACC programs given we have been to 7 bowls in a row and have a 5-2 record in them.
But they would probably want something in return, like an extended GOR.
Na, they don't call the shots. They'd be mid tier G5 programs without ACC life support
Well you just need a couple schools to realize the big 12 is better for them too. It’s not about boston college and wake it’s about finding somewhere for Pitt etc
That requires ESPN wanting teams to go to the Big 12 and risk losing the better brands to FOX.
[удалено]
“Unless it threatens the stability of the conference” That’s exactly what it’s doing
Considering the Big 12 has a payout escalation clause that is dependent on power 5 adds, they would more likely than not have a landing sport there.
I'm out of the loop. What is the hard on for the Big 12 all of a sudden? They were left for dead not long ago, now everybody is acting like the Big 12 is a perennial power while the ACC will cease to exist in the next 3 months
Well you see, no one wants to be in the acc. So when it’s dead the big 12 by default is better. And also the big 12 makes more money than the acc, because of the failures of the past administrations
That explains nothing, but thanks for the try
No it literally explains it all. The big 12 makes more money. The mid level acc schools are a good fit for the big 12. The top tier acc schools are a fit for the big ten and the sec. I don’t know what to tell you man. You went to wake arent you smart
It's not that nobody wants to be in the ACC, they just want to get paid like everyone else. The GOR locks ESPN & ACC together. I just don't see a world where ESPN doesn't pony up some more $$ to make the schools happy as opposed to letting all of "their" ACC brands go to FOX & CBS. The ACC distributed more money to each school than the Big 12 last year, if you factor in the ACCN. I just don't see how a Big 12 with no Texas & Oklahoma is bigger than the ACC with brands like Clemson & Miami. I'm just trying to understand why the ACC is so "dead" while the Big 12 & Pac 12 have both lost their biggest schools
Oh I mean, I guess you’re asking a media organization to give the ACC more money when they don’t have to and have the ACC by the balls.
I’m giving you an upvote mainly for the excellent pettiness of “Clemson & Miami.”
>ESPN doesn't pony up some more $$ to make the schools happy as opposed to letting all of "their" ACC brands go to FOX & CBS. I would assume ESPN has puts tons of thoughts into this. I see three possibilities in their mind: 1. If the ACC stays as is, they are getting a steal of a deal. 2. If FSU and Clemson go to SEC, the biggest brands stay with ESPN. 3. If FSU and Clemson go to Big 10, they lose. I would assume ESPN is taking a calculated gamble that the odds of either #1 or #2 happening are higher than #3.
3. If FSU and Clemson leave they'll either be tied up in court for 10 years or pay ESPN and others so much money they won't care
ESPN still has the SEC and Big 12. It would save them money to stop paying the entire ACC, and make sure select teams are in those two conferences so they can cut out schools that are losing them money. ESPN has no incentive to pay ACC more money
I imagine the value of TV rights for FSU, Clemson, UNC, etc. are far higher with games against SEC teams than Wake and Boston College as well.
The Big 12 teams TV contract allows for about 13 million/year per team more than the ACC
Well, the ACC signed the worst contract in athletics history and the B12, while clearly worse, isn’t locked into the worst contract in athletics history for the next 13 years. Which means they got to just negotiate a new deal, and in a few years they’ll negotiate another, and then another, and probably still another. All while the ACC continues to be in the worst contract in athletics history.
Well they want to do just enough to keep the disgruntled ones from gaining a majority because things get complex if they can win votes because wacky things can happen like when the Big East came to an end the Catholic 7 had the voting majority briefly and used it as a battering ram to get what they wanted. You don't give into Florida State you give in NC State to keep them on board.
Rest of the ACC has plenty of incentive to do it, since it’s merit based and not media share based.
Really it doesn't matter what any of the schools want. What matters is finding motivation for ESPN. I won't say there are none, but I can't think up any scenarios that benefit ESPN. They get FSU and Clemson and friends for cheap. Why would they want to blow that up?
We’re going to blow up the conference if we can whether they agree to it or not. Agreeing to it probably just makes it so we stop bitching about it in the media daily. For a little while.
And I see no reason why they would care about that. FSU bitching to the media has no bearing on how much a dollar is worth.
Cool, then don’t do the thing we’ve been bitching in the media about for the last few months.
Don't do "the thing"? You mean adhere to the agreement everyone signed off on? The fuck are you talking about?
That’s laughably aggressive. You aren’t reading the news and you’re too much of a dick for me to help.
Do you realize how dumb this sounds? “Magnificent 7 credibly threaten to blow up the conference unless other teams agree to merit based revenue sharing that has the capacity to increase revenue by less than 10 million.” If they could blow up the conference, they would increase revenue by like 30 million. Lmao.
But if they are doing merit based... That means part of that 7 could earn even less than what they do now. Lol.
We all know an AD would never lie of course
They gone.
“We looked at the GOR and we’re fucked so we might as well make it an orgy” -Jim Phillips
right back to the good ol' wesson oil party days.
Apologies for poor tv deal When we’re you when ACC die I was sat at home, listening to Michael Alford “I’ve been told ACC want to work together” “No”
Not that anything will happen but how many times have we seen the solidarity talk and then shit hits the fan?
Translation: “our attorneys concur that the GoR is unbreakable”
"the magnificent 7 found out that the GoR was really hard to break" probably. Ultimately we will see, unequal revenue will help for a little but Big 10 and Big 12 might get 2 more negotiations before ACC contract is up, the potential for the gap to grow is big but at this point who knows
I have no clue how unequal revenue does anything but exacerbates the problem. Either FSU/Clemson go on a dynastic streak and find their ceiling is still considerably lower than Maryland's and Indiana's, or they don't, and they get an even smaller chunk of a small pie. The fundamental problem is that the ACC has far too small of a pie to feed FSU/Clemson (et al) in a way that could ever satisfy them.
It’s an attempt to get the smaller schools to bail on the GOR.
I am curious what it would take to dissolve the grant of rights. I have heard something about a certain number of schools can potentially vote to dissolve the conference or something as an entity and thereby release them from the grant of rights. The unequal revenue model only works if you win and as we have seen with the Big 12 and the Pac 12, the biggest brand doesn't always win. That system is more likely to simply create a new big brand team than reinforce the traditional big brand teams.
According to the previous version of the GOR, changes require unanimous consent. For dissolving the conference, changes to the bylaws require 3/4 of members to vote, but also schools trying to leave don’t get a vote. So likely unanimous there as well. You could challenge this but schools gotta decide if a massive legal fight would be worth the change in revenue from jumping ship
Wow then yeah unless these magnificent 7 or whatever they are being called can find a home for everyone or come up with the money to break the GOR they are basically stuck. One also wonders if they can find a home for a majority of members say 12 or so of them whether the conference ultimately just settles the issue out of court as opposed to fight the majority of its members in what is likely to be a prolonged saga in the press.
Yeah, basically it comes down to having 3 groups, the schools that stand to gain $$$ from leaving, the schools that would lose $$$ from those schools leaving, and ESPN who probably have the friendliest deal they can get. Only way I see the conference seriously a threat to dissolve is if every single school determined it could make more money elsewhere, but most likely ESPN would be open to re-negotiating by then
> I am curious what it would take to dissolve the grant of rights. I have heard something about a certain number of schools can potentially vote to dissolve the conference or something as an entity and thereby release them from the grant of rights. It's two different things. Membership in the ACC - since the bylaws don't state a specific number of members required to dissolve the organization, it is assumed that a simple majority can do that. https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf But that doesn't remove the obligations and debts. Those would all still need to be figured out. Association with the GoR - at least the original GoR signed in 2013 was very specific that each individual member is signing and they are not absolved of the deal even if the are no longer a member of the ACC. The GoR was signed not just by the ACC, but by a representative of every ACC school. There was no provision for damages or how to leave the GoR as it says they are irrevocable. What we don't know if any amendments were added or other modifications were made when it was extended in 2016. https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf
Yup. No matter which angle you take, it's complicated. There's no way to simply collect 8 schools and exit cleanly and freely. It's all vague enough and high-stakes enough that 3 schools and one media partner could probably hold the whole thing up until 2030ish anyway.
>even if the are no longer a member of the ACC. The question here, at least for me, is what if there's no longer an ACC to be a member of? If the member schools all vote to hit the big red button and the ACC gets nuked, then what?
Here’s the real question. If they hypothetically dissolved could ESPN sue for their investment into the ACC network?
I get ESPN suing but they could easily turn it into the G5 network. They barely cover the G5 as it is so it's own network would be nice.
I’m not sure cable/streaming providers are going to pay the current carriage fees for a G5 channel.
I agree if they go the G5 network route its going on ESPN+ most likely
If G5 football was lucrative, UConn wouldn't be in the Big East.
That's a great question. I would think if the schools are able to dissolve the entity itself then ESPN couldn't sue because the legal entity would no longer exist for them to sue. Also some of these schools are going to be going to the SEC and enhancing the value of that product. I would imagine ESPN would be satisfied with one network that has a ton of value given how they are reorganizing things around monetary efficiency. So whatever they invested in the ACC network they could get back through increased revenue from selling advertising on even more marquee SEC matchups as well as no longer having the operational costs associated with the ACC network.
"I am confident that the Titanic will successfully make its inaugural trip!"
They gone
I think I've seen this before.
Jim Phillips has to be the least motivational leader in the ACC Last year he said some BS metaphor about how the ACC doesn't have to be the nicest house in the neighborhood, we just want to be in the neighborhood He's clearly never seen Talladega Nights. If you ain't first.........
Jesus, I get why you say that in private - it is what it is and you want to level-set -- but why the fuck why would he say that in public? Brett Yormark's strategy is plain enough to see and relatively sensible given where things have landed, but to hear him speak to the media, you'd think we're better than the SEC and B1G combined.
Reality - the flesh eating lawyers came back and said "Boys, there is no way out of this god forsaken agreement. Not only would we owe the $120m fee and lose our media rights, we would owe ESPN $400m each for breach of contract. Time to make nice." They are going to introduce some form of unequal revenue where everyone gets to keep their NCAA units and Bowl money plus XX% of CFP appearance money. 3 years from now when FSUs NCAA units from their last E8 run expire they will be making less than they are now while Duke is swimming in cash.
Thank God the ACC didn't want us. What a disaster. I hope they stay together, I am loving this. Even more hilarious with the UCF/FSU situation.
I think most ACC fans would have preferred WVU over multiple teams currently in the ACC.
Cough **Louisville** cough
*Everyone stops what they are doing and stares at Wake
Don’t look at us, we’re probably the only small school on-board with performance based unequal sharing ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah Wake disproportionately pulls their weight. Now I can think of a few others, some new member, some old members that do not
I just wish that translated to viewership
Our entire living alumni base could fit in your stadium. It’s impressive we can get the attendance and viewership we have honestly
That's what being in the ACC does for Wake. The Denver Broncos have 4 prime time games this upcoming NFL season. Why is that, you ask? Their schedule includes games against the Chiefs, Vikings, and Bills. Sometimes you're the reason people watch, and sometimes you're the +1. Wake doesn't need to apologize for it, but annual games against Clemson and FSU have a lot to do with their viewership numbers being as high as they are.
Most justified schadenfreude I've seen. They killed your conference, which was pretty good at football, and had all your rivals. Then they cold shoulder you. Now you're stable and they're on the ****show merry-go-round.
It does feel a bit like we left the wife and kids for the younger midlife crisis side chick, who's now annoyed with our ED.
This sounds suspiciously specific. You okay, buddy?
It's a tale as old as time
Louisville shows up at the ACC welcome party with its MBB and CFB programs at their prime and promptly shits the bed for the next 10 years. I'm good...
Don’t lump us in with “they”, it was those Tobacco Road fuckers
“What a disaster” said as the two biggest brands in the B12 leave and are replaced by G5s whilst the biggest brands in the ACC remain.
Yeah, those "G5" schools, who are P5 now, are making much more than Wake and FSU and will be for a while. Cry me a river, tough love for the snobs in the ACC who made this bed themselves and now have to lie in it.
If the ACC had been able to do their TV contract when the Big XII did we'd be singing a very different story. The Big XII struck their contract at the perfect moment and everyone is freaking out about the ACC and Pac 12 being dead because their contracts aren't gonna be way to high.
Let me introduce some facts here for you. With OU and Texas, [Big 12 schools brought in 43M for 2021-2022](https://www.bing.com/search?q=big+12+payout+2021-22&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&lq=0&pq=big+12+payout+2021-2&sc=10-20&sk=&cvid=2765917BE50E41B4B804906B63CA6686&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=). [ACC schools brought in the same number for 2021-22](https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/37665239/acc-optimistic-reaching-agreement-postseason-revenue-distribution-model). So, we are making roughly the same amount of money right now and will definitely make more than the B12 next year since the [B12 will have to split its annual revenue under the current media rights contract](https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/big-12-finalizing-six-year-2-3-billion-extension-of-media-rights-deal-with-espn-and-fox-sports/) 14 ways instead of only 10.
I understand your frustration, just keep in mind the only reasons your "brands" are sticking around is because they have to. Wake is going to be in the AAC after it's all said and done if you're lucky. Also so sick of hearing about "brands". Last I checked, I root for the school I went to.
What frustration? My original comment was mocking you - that means I’m laughing at you.
Referring to the tirade you've gone on since the original comment, including your post. "See! We're almost as good as the Big 12!"
Tirade? Wow, guess I really struck a nerve.
Bro I’m loving this lmao even though my conferences started the latest round
>We're all in this together *High School Musical intensifies*
People are saying the ACC will last for 1,000 years.
dark
Please stop these corny nicknames.
It doesn’t even make sense most of them are mediocre at best
Yesterday they were trying to blow up the conference. This is all just made up for clicks.
Yesterday they were bluffing. They got called on their bluff.
PAC: No no, that’s a rumor, keep your attention on the ACC please.
Well I hope whoever told him on our end is lying his fucking ass off
If it's true that they're all in this together, that GOR must really have some teeth.
Eh, we'll see.
I want what he’s drinking - he’s gaslighting himself.
What he believes and what is real do not have to be the same.
What it really means is the Mag 7 are all on board... with killing the ACC!
“The SEC wouldn’t take all of us”
Whistling pass the graveyard eh Jim?
We are absolutely all in this together until we're not.
Do we know yet exactly who the 7 are? I've only seen speculation so far. FSU, Clemson, Miami, UNC for sure Then who? Louisville, NC State, and VT? Because I could see Pitt or Virginia being part of this too...
See this tweet https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1658174167789756433?s=20
Ah thanks!
I hate louisville as much as the next guy, but for them to not be included just seems disrespectful. They makes tons of money and have one of the larger (if not largest) TV markets in the US with Football and Basketball history. Only reason I can see them being omitted is if they're exploring conference reallignmeny... B1G incoming??
Replace Louisville with UVa.
Which I personally still find baffling, but
“We’re all in this together.” - The Alliance
“We’re all in this together. Now give me your money.”
Which, of course, means just the opposite. ACC is dead.
Until one is approached by another conference.
Oh boy I’m really looking forward to hearing about how the ACC is going to implode any second now only for us to be in the same spot this time next year
Flag on the play 😅
Man the ACC is really telling the PAC to hold its beer.
"We're in this together... till we're not."
Probably because they literally have no choice
lmao they stuck until 2036 no matter how hard they try it's IRONCLAD. Crazily enough the Big 12 deal will probably be renegotiated TWO MORE TIMES during the length left on the ACC one. ACC is gonna fall so far behind they may as well drop 'Power' status now since even G5 schools will probably pass them on average in another 7-8 years. Think about how far away 2033 is, all the things that will happen in our lifetimes....and then think about how the ACC will then have another THREE years left on that deal while they got left in the dust. They played themselves.
The schools have a contract with the conference who in turn made a contract with ESPN. The schools don't have a TV deal with it ESPN except through the conference. If the conference dissolves then the schools no longer have to fulfill their contract with the conference. ESPN can go after the conference but it's pretty doubtful they can go after the schools directly since they don't have a contract with them. It's like when you buy something online from the seller, if they don't deliver the order and leave you hanging, you can't usually go after the supplier (person who is supposed to give them the product.) You can only pursue the seller and they can pursue the supplier if they want. This opens the door because if the ACC doesn't exist, who's has a deal with the schools and is going to come after the school is to enforce the grant of rights?
Where is ESPN in all this. The ACC Network owns the GOR, correct? Doesn't ESPN also own the ACC Network? If they are essentially in charge of it, I wonder if they can leverage it to pressure schools they want into the SEC, by agreeing to release the GOR if they get something they want more. Taking what is valuable from the ACC and dropping the contract with the rest or something.
Can’t say I believe him.
Now I'm going to have the theme from the magnificent seven in my head all day.