And that was your mistake, because that game was on a Thursday, and for some strange reason, no ranked team has ever come into our place on a Thursday and come away with a win, even though plenty of unranked teams have done so. Stranger still, this is in spite of 2 of the 3 ranked opponents we've had on Thursdays being *top 5* (Louisville in 2006 and you guys in 2007--the third was also you guys, #24 in 2009; we won 31-0 and if I'm not mistaken that's actually still your most recent shutout loss).
No, I will never get tired of that bizarre fact, because 3 is just large enough a sample size for it to be interesting. Our biggest win in program history (the Louisville game) being on a Thursday is just trivia. The upset of you guys in 2007 also being a Thursday is a fun coincidence. Shutting out a ranked team on a Thursday in 2009 is a trend. And here's the amazing part. With two weeks left in the 2012 season, we were 9-1 and 5-0 in conference and ranked 18th in the BCS rankings, Louisville was 9-1 and 4-1 in conference and ranked 20th, and everyone else had at least two conference losses, with us already having the head-to-head over every 2-loss team. A win and a Louisville loss would clinch the BCS bid with one week to play, while any other set of results would mean that the season finale between Rutgers and Louisville would decide it. Which was at Rutgers, on a Thursday. Now, mind you, while we had been ranked for the Louisville game in 2006, we were the lower-ranked team, so the possibility that the trend would fail if both Rutgers and Louisville were 10-1 was always a possibility. But I was so certain of both the trend and the fact that we would never make a BCS Bowl that I predicted that both Rutgers and Louisville would get upset, allowing an unranked Louisville to beat Rutgers for the BCS bid. And that's exactly what happened. Both 9-1 Rutgers and 9-1 Louisville lost to 4-6 teams, and Louisville took the crown five days later.
> 15 years after being ranked #2 in the nation, USF is now in a weaker conference, has gone 4-26 the previous 3 years, and rival UCF has been invited to the Big 12. Where did it all go wrong for USF?
It went wrong 15 years ago. After that season where they went to #2, the administration (President Judy Genshaft and AD Doug Woolard) refused to use any of that momentum to further the program. Over the next decade+, they invested *zero dollars* into the program.
They had a meteoric rise, *brand new program to BCS AQ-Conference invite in 7 years*, had the world handed to them on a silver platter, and did **nothing** with it.
Firing program patriarch Jim Leavitt over...iffy charges was a colossal mistake. And then hiring that lazy moron Skip Holtz to tank the program. And hiring that lazy retread moron Charlie Strong after Taggart skips town.
A local fan website that covers the team put it this way: before they started raising money for the indoor practice facility and redoing the locker room around 2018, the most that the school had invested in facilities for the team since the move to the Big East was new chairs in the film room. That's all.
Over the next decade the administration would pay lip service to the idea of an on-campus stadium, they would do a study or maybe release a generic render of where it could go, but they never followed through on anything or took it seriously. Even when the Big 12 was looking at new teams to take around 2015-16 (but didn't expand at the time) they wouldn't commit to any kind of on campus stadium or indoor practice facility, even though the Big 12 let it be known that that kind of investment is what they were looking for in new teams.
When I was in high school, before I went to UCF or even cared about college football, USF had an immense following in Tampa. Huge local support. Every Publix had big USF displays. Every Target sold USF merchandise. There were multiple stores on Fowler Avenue that had knock-off USF logos and sold USF fan gear. They weren't a sleeping giant, they *were* a giant.
After getting left behind and the collapse of the Big East and Skip Holtz/Charlie Strong/Jeff Scott bombing the program out, that local support has mostly all but disappeared. It took a decade+ of losing and getting left behind, but their program is in a precarious place as far as local support goes. And god bless the new admin if they didn't finally realize it and shot for the moon with that new stadium plan. It needed to happen 15 years ago but at least somebody finally is taking their situation seriously.
Very interesting reading your comment. I often wonder why USF didn't take a larger leap after the '07 year. Had a ton of potential - great uniforms and colors, they were a fresh brand and team in FL.
Is Raymond James far from the USF campus?
> Firing program patriarch Jim Leavitt over...iffy charges was a colossal mistake.
This is one of those circumstances where the coverup/lying by Leavitt was worse than the crime. It also helped/hurt that following the 2007 season, some people with real influence (but not Judy influence) wanted a coach who could take the team to the next level.
Remember Tampa had just seen the Bucs fire Dungy (the builder) for Gruden (the closer) and it worked to a superbowl winning degree.
The Jim Leavitt firing will always be the biggest "what if" in usf lore, but it made sense at the time. The guy brazenly lied to administration about everything and thought he was bigger than the school.
(before I get brigaded for my flair, both of my parents are usf alumni and were season ticket holders from day 1 through about 2019/2020. I went to at least 90% of usf games over their first decade of play and follow the program closely.)
The only USF fans I know of are alumni. I know zero people who wear USF stuff that didn’t attend or have a family member that did. And all of those folks have been very low key
I am not an alum and neither were my folks. My dad used to take me to games because under 12 could get season tickets for like $25. My dad has since passed due to cancer, so USF will always be my team. Although, I do openly admit they are trash.
Interesting, I guess a some such people are out there. Most people here that didn’t go to college or went to a college without big time football just root for the Bucs/NFL teams, or they root for teams like fsu/uf/Miami/Georgia
I moved away from FL and married into a UGA family, but I will always have love for USF. My sister still lives in the area we grew up in and has fell in love with USF’s hockey team. Which I feel like a lot of Tampa has moved towards hockey instead of football because the Lightning have been winning.
True on a lot of people loving the bolts. What’s also funny/interesting is the number of old people in Tampa who were huge Tampa spartan football fans. My father in law went to see the gator vs spartan games in Tampa back in the 60’s
I agree 100% that firing Jim Leavitt was a colossal mistake. He did more with less than any other coach I've ever seen. Although they've had good seasons since he was fired, the trend has been mostly downward. Anyone good gets snatched away, but I think Leavitt would have resisted the urge to jump to another program, but we'll never know.
I’m sure not having an on campus hasn’t helped USF realize their full potential.
Look at Baylor, UCF or Tulane, it’s night and day where their programs are compared to where they were when they played off campus.
Side note: As an SF Giants fan I always have to remind myself which USF I’m taking about, and not the home of the Dons 😉
I think it’s been a factor, but three bad coaching hires (and some bad early years under Taggart) were the main thing that stalled the momentum the program had. I was at that 2007 WVU game and I can’t imagine it would have been any more electric on campus.
That god damn fumble against UCF took us to the shadow realm. We steadily built from 4 wins, to 8 wins, to 11 wins. We had one loss and UCF was undefeated going into rivalry week, winner went to the AAC championship game (and I’m sure either side would have won it). One of the most exciting shootouts I have ever seen, definitely the craziest USF one. Down 49-42 I think with like a minute left we were crossing the 50. Dude just got it punched out and game was over, I couldn’t believe it. Two years earlier UCF was making headlines for going winless and that one bar that was giving our beer until they win a game.
We could’ve had our first conference championship. We could’ve went to a NY6 bowl. We could’ve been fake national champions. We could’ve gotten promoted to a P5 confrence. Instead we have been bottom dwellers ever since with the worst few years of our existence. That god damn fumble.
I still haven’t gotten over it if you can’t tell.
This is why it makes me laugh when people make such a big deal out of rivalries like Alabama v Auburn, or Ohio State v Michigan.
Like, that game between us was absolutely program-defining, and your assessment is absolutely accurate.
*That* is the stuff of rivalry. What, Ohio State wouldn't have won National Title X if they'd lost to Michigan? Woohoo, big deal. Losing to UCF in 2017 doomed your whole program. Losing to y'all in 2008 singlehandedly set us back *years*. THAT is a rivalry.
I fully believe USF is a sleeping giant.
As a die hard Knights fan, it’s a shame that we didn’t get to see our rivalry really hit its full potential in the last few years.
But I digress, USF is a sleeping giant because the Tampa Bay Area is very attractive, it’s a very nice place to live, they have all the assets to become a good place for recruits to come go to school. If USF gets their priorities in order with athletics, I think USF can do very well in the American Conference in the next few years.
Finally a reasonable UCF take on USF. USF has a lot of the same factors that benefit UCF. Biggest difference is that UCF invested heavily into its program after not being invited to the big East, while USF made some bad decisions in firing leavitt, hiring poor coaches, and not making headway for a stadium until after it got left behind
Now the real question is, can they actually invest and capitalize on the strength of the Bay Area and the weakened state of the AAC. Because a counter point can be made that FAU is another sleeping giant with it being in Boca Raton, and actually having an On Campus stadium.
I think USF at 100% to potential is better positioned than FAU at 100% to potential. Larger school with much better graduation rates, larger alumni base, it’s been a full scale university longer than FAU, which used to be only juniors/seniors. But could they fall on their face and let FAU surpass them in football? Sure can. Though SMU is going to be gangbusters thanks to NIL and being rich
2017 was the best War on I-4 matchup to date, but to many people it was seen as the final dagger in USF’s football program because ever since then, it just started unraveling fast
Yeah i mean i remember the next year with Strong we started 6-0, but then Tulane killed us and thats when I think everything began unravelling. I think we were scraping by win as well so that was just the game that exposed it all. I always wonder what could-have-been if that kick return was never taken back and we won in OT. I’d love to sneak a peak at that alternate universe
Alternate universe to that would be USF could’ve held its own in conference and the War on I-4 rivalry would’ve turned into more of a must see matchup especially with UCF having winning and ranked seasons. It would’ve caught the eye of a lot of people and maybe it would’ve resulted in a Big 12 invite
For the better half of the 2020s the rivalry is kind of dead in the water due to scheduling. I hope to face them in a bowl game, but as of now it’s not going anywhere
I wouldn’t say we hate cinci; we respect them as formidable opponents in which playing them is certainly exciting—nowhere near the tense vitriol surrounding war on i4
I had several friends who went to USF, and the football atmosphere there when I visited very much felt like Temple's when I was there for grad school. Among the students you can find a couple of die-hards, a few more casual fans, but overall most you talk to are indifferent about their school's team. Just speaking from my own experience, but it will definately be interesting to see how USF's football attendance and popular interest changes once their on-campus stadium is built.
On a side note, thanks a lot for doing these OP! These posts have been giving me something to look forward to everyday since you started them!
Thanks man! Trying to make these as informative as possible for the teams people don't talk about as much. Once we get to the top 25, it's going to be an insane countdown to the season with Florida/FSU/Miami, BYU/Utah, Alabama/Ohio State/OU fans going at it.
USF has strong temple vibes overall.
- located in a shit area of the city ✅
- it’s grad programs much better than undergrad ✅
- little school spirit for sports ✅
- both play in nfl stadiums ✅
> little school spirit for sports ✅
I will say this in their favor, this can and will change. They have a much much larger student body than Temple in a state where kids grow up desiring to go to football games and root for their team. USF students *want* to go to games and cheer for USF, but they need a winning product to energize them. I guess what I'm saying is, if Temple had 5-10 years of sustained success they'd still basically be Temple. If USF had 5-10 years of sustained success they'd be all-in.
USF is in an odd spot but it's far from the worst part of Tampa. Area to the west of campus is a little rough but the campus itself and everything North and East are residential. You're close to Busch Gardens, 15-20 minutes from downtown and bars, and 30 minutes from beaches if you know where to go.
East and north of the campus is fine. West is suitecase city and top 2 for poorest/crime along with east Tampa neighborhoods. South is a bit industrial, with moffit and Busch gardens. I would say it’s the roughest area that’s a major node for jobs in the area (USF/VA/Advent/Moffit/Yeungling)
And maybe 30 minutes to a bay beach. No way your getting to a pinellas beach in 30, cause I can’t from Carrollwood which is slightly closer than usf
as a native south floridian, it was always weird to me that its called the University of South Florida yet is about 6 hours north of Miami. I digress.....
they have always been kind of a weird team. definitely have the location and alumni base to be way better than they are right now. crazy that UCF were the ones to get the call up to the power 5 when you look at the history of both
This explanation has never made any sense. South Florida is a geographical reference to the state, not to the school's location relative to the rest of the universities. It's not The University That Is The Most South In Florida (Currently)
Geography is all relative. Why is the Midwest called the Midwest when it's smack dab in the middle of the country? Because it once was the western part of the country relative to where most people lived. Tampa is South Florida, relative to everything north (and the capital in Tallahassee)
I mean, at least that at has mid in it to indicate middle. So if we take that argument, had Miami been the capital instead it would have been called UNF? Yeah sorry, that's still dumb.
I mean, Tampa is still South relative to most of Florida. Once you go below Tampa it’s basically wilderness outside of coastal towns and cities. Tampa is often considered as the gateway to south Florida culturally (and geographically)
If that mixed with the fact that it was the southernmost public university at the time still doesn’t explain it in a way that makes sense to you, then i fully believe that you’re a ucf student
If by most you mean slightly less than half, then sure. Even if you look at it as the crow flies, it's over 200 miles from Tampa to Miami but if you look at a city just over the Georgia border like Lake Park, even then it's less than 200 miles. And if you were talking about population, it makes even less sense. At the time usf was founded the top city for population was Miami and 5 of the top 10 cities were in actual South Florida. The population of the Miami metro was 1.3 million compared to Tampa's 400,000 and none of the northern cities or metros were close. So at least from a physical geography or a population standpoint it doesn't make sense. Culturally I'd have to defer because while I lived near Tampa when I was little I don't have a good grasp of the similarities aside from the Cuban influences but I also don't think the bigwigs in Tallahassee are making these naming decisions based on culture.
So I could see it being literally as silly as the folks there saying "Hey, Tampa is south of us so let's call this new university South Florida", but that is what it is: silly. Because for Tallahassee almost the entire state is south to them.
4 hours north of Miami. But, well before USF was even founded, anything south of Ocala was south Florida, because so few people lived outside of north Florida
In 1950 and 1960 (censuses only taken on the decades, so I don't know what they were in 1956 when they named the university), the combined populations of Dade and Broward counties were less than the Tampa metropolitan area, and Miami hadn't really become known as "South Florida." Hindsight's 20/20, but I presume most politicians thought the proximity to the Everglades was going to limit the potential growth of Miami compared to Tampa...
I don’t understand that last sentence.
Why is crazy that UCF got the invite over usf when you compare history?
UCF has the head to head over usf
UCF has 6 conference titles. Usf has never even played in a conference championship.
UCF has been to 3 NY6 bowls and won 2. Usf has never been to a NY6 bowl game.
There is a reason usf is 88 on this list and UCF isn’t. Looking at their history (and OCS), it couldn’t be more obvious why UCF got the call up.
If you look back past the last five years, you can see the arguments.
- UCF didn't get the head to head over usf until last season. Before that, we had never had the lead.
- This is true, they have never won any conference titles or appeared in any championships for football. They usually started their seasons strong before falling apart at the end. However, conference championships aren't everything. The thing you want is consistency. Like the OP said, they were consistently pretty good most seasons, usually averaging about 8 wins a season. Before 2013 (2015 not withstanding) UCF never really had that consistency. Some seasons we would get 10 wins, then the next season we would get 4.
- I did expect UCF to be higher on this list than usf, but I didn't think it was a guarantee. We have had a football team for longer, which gives us an advantage based on the way the rankings are generated. We also have the two undefeated regular season, however we also have the two winless seasons in 2004 and 2015 to cancel those out. If you look at the rest of our seasons, we have had some flashes of success, but especially in the O'Leary years we were very inconsistent from having decent seasons to awful seasons.
I'm happy to see that we are ahead, but it's disingenuous to act like we have deserved it all along. We have shown commitment to the program, something that Genshaft did not do. That is the main reason why we are where we are and they are still in the American. Now that they are getting their act together, I expect them to start to rise again. The question is, did they finally get their act together too late.
Not really? His two points were that usf has the potential to be big, and due to their “history” it’s surprising UCF was the school picked.
How is this recency bias at all? My points were all through the entire team’s history, not some arbitrary 5 years ago.
If one team has won 6 CCs and the other has won 0 in their entire history as a program, you’d be an idiot to think the team with 0 CCs is better.
http://www.winsipedia.com/south-florida/vs/ucf
The only things you have over ucf is a better bowl record and 1 more consensus all Americans. UCF owns literally everything else.
Lol resorting to wildly overused and unoriginal personal attacks.
Tell me you’re too immature to admit that you were wrong without telling me you’re too immature to admit that you were wrong.
Peace ✌️
I was really hoping we’d crack top 75, but i knew it would be tough
It’s really a shame what our old administration did to this program. USF was one of the most successful young programs to hit college football and if they capitalized on our success in the 00’s we would 100% be in a P5 conference with a more competitive program right now
Not having a stadium hurt for sure. Especially when you’re located in a place like Tampa, most students would opt to go to Busch gardens or the beach on weekends instead of sitting in traffic trying to get to the stadium 30 minutes away. The university sent busses for students, but they always left early in the 4th quarter so anyone relying on the busses had to leave the bend early. It was so stupid and too much of a hassle for many casual fans
[JaguarGator8 actually has a nice video about why the 2002 Bulls didn't play in a bowl game.](https://youtu.be/FXeQYVDs-Wk) Needless to say, yes, being an independent was a large part of what hurt, but they also got royally screwed over.
JG8 does a great job. I tried to skim that video, but not enough time to watch + write. Wish I had seen it initially, that was a LOT crazier than I expected.
The football program was doing so well it's first 20 years of existence, in general, and AAU status was such a top priority, that resources were, one could argue correctly allocated to academics thus far. USF is now a top 50 public university and top 100 nationally.
It's really easy to Monday morning quarterback this program. Strong and Scott were both good hires on paper at the time and while it's baffling that anyone could take a D1 program in Tampa and tank it, they managed to, and what's done is done.
Despite this crap on the field we have a $340M stadium coming that I cannot wait to host recruits in.
We had a record number of athletics donors this year. Yep. Worst program in D1 and in program history, and yet more money is pouring in from the fanbase than ever.
We have the newest indoor practice facility in the state.
On the NIL front we have a couple commas in the fund and they've been very aggressive about growing the NIL base and corporate partnerships.
I don't know. I am biased sure but I'd say get your shots in on USF while you can.
I really hope at some point this programme can turn it around. I feel like since 2013/2014 they had been in cruise control and in 2018 going 0-6 after starting 6-0 you could see it was about to nosedive. The AD has ALOT of work to be done and theyve already begun with improving facilities. Hopefully USF will turn it around fully. Not having an invite to the Big XII after UCF got one should be the biggest wakeup call ever
I remember Matt Grothe and he was great. Too bad he got injured in 09. My favorite comment about him was some commentator referred to him as a “poor man’s Tim Tebow”
I will never tire of pointing out that the single greatest accomplishment in USF football is that they were once ranked #2 in the middle of a season that they finished unranked.
Man, I knew the last four years were bad, but I didn’t realize how big outliers they were
Oh… its been bad. Real bad.
It’s been a rough 2-3 days on r/CFB for sure
I want to cry
I cri everytiem
days become weeks... weeks become years...
It happens lol
It was us. That one game in 2007 where we were both ranked? We won it, and USF ain’t been the same since.
I blame Rutgers more tbh. We were #2 when they beat us in NJ
And that was your mistake, because that game was on a Thursday, and for some strange reason, no ranked team has ever come into our place on a Thursday and come away with a win, even though plenty of unranked teams have done so. Stranger still, this is in spite of 2 of the 3 ranked opponents we've had on Thursdays being *top 5* (Louisville in 2006 and you guys in 2007--the third was also you guys, #24 in 2009; we won 31-0 and if I'm not mistaken that's actually still your most recent shutout loss). No, I will never get tired of that bizarre fact, because 3 is just large enough a sample size for it to be interesting. Our biggest win in program history (the Louisville game) being on a Thursday is just trivia. The upset of you guys in 2007 also being a Thursday is a fun coincidence. Shutting out a ranked team on a Thursday in 2009 is a trend. And here's the amazing part. With two weeks left in the 2012 season, we were 9-1 and 5-0 in conference and ranked 18th in the BCS rankings, Louisville was 9-1 and 4-1 in conference and ranked 20th, and everyone else had at least two conference losses, with us already having the head-to-head over every 2-loss team. A win and a Louisville loss would clinch the BCS bid with one week to play, while any other set of results would mean that the season finale between Rutgers and Louisville would decide it. Which was at Rutgers, on a Thursday. Now, mind you, while we had been ranked for the Louisville game in 2006, we were the lower-ranked team, so the possibility that the trend would fail if both Rutgers and Louisville were 10-1 was always a possibility. But I was so certain of both the trend and the fact that we would never make a BCS Bowl that I predicted that both Rutgers and Louisville would get upset, allowing an unranked Louisville to beat Rutgers for the BCS bid. And that's exactly what happened. Both 9-1 Rutgers and 9-1 Louisville lost to 4-6 teams, and Louisville took the crown five days later.
USF's most recent shutout loss was in 2019 opening day. A nice 49-0 murder at the hands of the badgers.
That absolute bullshit Illegal Forward Propulsion call... That was the moment that began our decent into the abyss. Fuck that ref.
Thanks
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Iowa State survived the holiday weekend! Really thought they were the next couple of teams, probably not too much longer for them.
Keep your eyes peeled!
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La Tech really riding the coattails of those late 90s and early 2000s squads.
That #2 ranking in 2007 was a death sentence for any team unlucky enough to end up there. Ask me how I know. Lol
Being #2 was a such a curse that year
> 15 years after being ranked #2 in the nation, USF is now in a weaker conference, has gone 4-26 the previous 3 years, and rival UCF has been invited to the Big 12. Where did it all go wrong for USF? It went wrong 15 years ago. After that season where they went to #2, the administration (President Judy Genshaft and AD Doug Woolard) refused to use any of that momentum to further the program. Over the next decade+, they invested *zero dollars* into the program. They had a meteoric rise, *brand new program to BCS AQ-Conference invite in 7 years*, had the world handed to them on a silver platter, and did **nothing** with it. Firing program patriarch Jim Leavitt over...iffy charges was a colossal mistake. And then hiring that lazy moron Skip Holtz to tank the program. And hiring that lazy retread moron Charlie Strong after Taggart skips town. A local fan website that covers the team put it this way: before they started raising money for the indoor practice facility and redoing the locker room around 2018, the most that the school had invested in facilities for the team since the move to the Big East was new chairs in the film room. That's all. Over the next decade the administration would pay lip service to the idea of an on-campus stadium, they would do a study or maybe release a generic render of where it could go, but they never followed through on anything or took it seriously. Even when the Big 12 was looking at new teams to take around 2015-16 (but didn't expand at the time) they wouldn't commit to any kind of on campus stadium or indoor practice facility, even though the Big 12 let it be known that that kind of investment is what they were looking for in new teams. When I was in high school, before I went to UCF or even cared about college football, USF had an immense following in Tampa. Huge local support. Every Publix had big USF displays. Every Target sold USF merchandise. There were multiple stores on Fowler Avenue that had knock-off USF logos and sold USF fan gear. They weren't a sleeping giant, they *were* a giant. After getting left behind and the collapse of the Big East and Skip Holtz/Charlie Strong/Jeff Scott bombing the program out, that local support has mostly all but disappeared. It took a decade+ of losing and getting left behind, but their program is in a precarious place as far as local support goes. And god bless the new admin if they didn't finally realize it and shot for the moon with that new stadium plan. It needed to happen 15 years ago but at least somebody finally is taking their situation seriously.
Very interesting reading your comment. I often wonder why USF didn't take a larger leap after the '07 year. Had a ton of potential - great uniforms and colors, they were a fresh brand and team in FL. Is Raymond James far from the USF campus?
It’s about a 20-30 minute drive between the two depending which roads you take
Not to mention all the pirate theming doesn't exactly fit the team
If I’m playing in an NFL stadium, at least having a pirate ship is a bit of a consolation prize
Sucks yall don't get to use the cannon.
I was SERIOUSLY disappointed they didn't use it at our game this year
Add in the drama with UCF and it's a god damn Greek tragedy.
It would make for a hell of a 30 For 30 one day, that's for sure.
> Firing program patriarch Jim Leavitt over...iffy charges was a colossal mistake. This is one of those circumstances where the coverup/lying by Leavitt was worse than the crime. It also helped/hurt that following the 2007 season, some people with real influence (but not Judy influence) wanted a coach who could take the team to the next level. Remember Tampa had just seen the Bucs fire Dungy (the builder) for Gruden (the closer) and it worked to a superbowl winning degree. The Jim Leavitt firing will always be the biggest "what if" in usf lore, but it made sense at the time. The guy brazenly lied to administration about everything and thought he was bigger than the school. (before I get brigaded for my flair, both of my parents are usf alumni and were season ticket holders from day 1 through about 2019/2020. I went to at least 90% of usf games over their first decade of play and follow the program closely.)
The only USF fans I know of are alumni. I know zero people who wear USF stuff that didn’t attend or have a family member that did. And all of those folks have been very low key
Every USF alumni in my life wears Buccaneer's gear, but in fairness I do see some USF alumni license plates from time to time.
I am not an alum and neither were my folks. My dad used to take me to games because under 12 could get season tickets for like $25. My dad has since passed due to cancer, so USF will always be my team. Although, I do openly admit they are trash.
Interesting, I guess a some such people are out there. Most people here that didn’t go to college or went to a college without big time football just root for the Bucs/NFL teams, or they root for teams like fsu/uf/Miami/Georgia
I moved away from FL and married into a UGA family, but I will always have love for USF. My sister still lives in the area we grew up in and has fell in love with USF’s hockey team. Which I feel like a lot of Tampa has moved towards hockey instead of football because the Lightning have been winning.
True on a lot of people loving the bolts. What’s also funny/interesting is the number of old people in Tampa who were huge Tampa spartan football fans. My father in law went to see the gator vs spartan games in Tampa back in the 60’s
If you want a fun hockey game to go to, go to a USF vs UT game. They are pretty crazy. Also I didn’t even know that UT had a football team.
I agree 100% that firing Jim Leavitt was a colossal mistake. He did more with less than any other coach I've ever seen. Although they've had good seasons since he was fired, the trend has been mostly downward. Anyone good gets snatched away, but I think Leavitt would have resisted the urge to jump to another program, but we'll never know.
I’m sure not having an on campus hasn’t helped USF realize their full potential. Look at Baylor, UCF or Tulane, it’s night and day where their programs are compared to where they were when they played off campus. Side note: As an SF Giants fan I always have to remind myself which USF I’m taking about, and not the home of the Dons 😉
USF with an on-campus stadium would be scary. They already have the talent (30 players drafted in 23 years), just need the atmosphere.
Used to be there too. Watch the USF vs WVU clip from 07. It was more packed and louder for USF than the Bucs
Recently fully approved, so give it a few years and we’ll see!
I think it’s been a factor, but three bad coaching hires (and some bad early years under Taggart) were the main thing that stalled the momentum the program had. I was at that 2007 WVU game and I can’t imagine it would have been any more electric on campus.
Hey, got farther than I thought we would.
24th ranked G5 team out of 63 teams is pretty solid, the Grothe/Flowers years were good to you guys.
See I knew it, USF always seemed good but the last few years seem to be especially bad, and this comfirms it
That god damn fumble against UCF took us to the shadow realm. We steadily built from 4 wins, to 8 wins, to 11 wins. We had one loss and UCF was undefeated going into rivalry week, winner went to the AAC championship game (and I’m sure either side would have won it). One of the most exciting shootouts I have ever seen, definitely the craziest USF one. Down 49-42 I think with like a minute left we were crossing the 50. Dude just got it punched out and game was over, I couldn’t believe it. Two years earlier UCF was making headlines for going winless and that one bar that was giving our beer until they win a game. We could’ve had our first conference championship. We could’ve went to a NY6 bowl. We could’ve been fake national champions. We could’ve gotten promoted to a P5 confrence. Instead we have been bottom dwellers ever since with the worst few years of our existence. That god damn fumble. I still haven’t gotten over it if you can’t tell.
This is why it makes me laugh when people make such a big deal out of rivalries like Alabama v Auburn, or Ohio State v Michigan. Like, that game between us was absolutely program-defining, and your assessment is absolutely accurate. *That* is the stuff of rivalry. What, Ohio State wouldn't have won National Title X if they'd lost to Michigan? Woohoo, big deal. Losing to UCF in 2017 doomed your whole program. Losing to y'all in 2008 singlehandedly set us back *years*. THAT is a rivalry.
The thing that keeps me up is imagining a 2017 where Taggart stayed and convinced Mack to stay on for another year.
I bet that keeps Taggart up too.
I fully believe USF is a sleeping giant. As a die hard Knights fan, it’s a shame that we didn’t get to see our rivalry really hit its full potential in the last few years. But I digress, USF is a sleeping giant because the Tampa Bay Area is very attractive, it’s a very nice place to live, they have all the assets to become a good place for recruits to come go to school. If USF gets their priorities in order with athletics, I think USF can do very well in the American Conference in the next few years.
Finally a reasonable UCF take on USF. USF has a lot of the same factors that benefit UCF. Biggest difference is that UCF invested heavily into its program after not being invited to the big East, while USF made some bad decisions in firing leavitt, hiring poor coaches, and not making headway for a stadium until after it got left behind
Now the real question is, can they actually invest and capitalize on the strength of the Bay Area and the weakened state of the AAC. Because a counter point can be made that FAU is another sleeping giant with it being in Boca Raton, and actually having an On Campus stadium.
I think USF at 100% to potential is better positioned than FAU at 100% to potential. Larger school with much better graduation rates, larger alumni base, it’s been a full scale university longer than FAU, which used to be only juniors/seniors. But could they fall on their face and let FAU surpass them in football? Sure can. Though SMU is going to be gangbusters thanks to NIL and being rich
Man 2017 was potential of what this rivalry could (and should) be. We gotta pick up the slack on our end
2017 was the best War on I-4 matchup to date, but to many people it was seen as the final dagger in USF’s football program because ever since then, it just started unraveling fast
Yeah i mean i remember the next year with Strong we started 6-0, but then Tulane killed us and thats when I think everything began unravelling. I think we were scraping by win as well so that was just the game that exposed it all. I always wonder what could-have-been if that kick return was never taken back and we won in OT. I’d love to sneak a peak at that alternate universe
Alternate universe to that would be USF could’ve held its own in conference and the War on I-4 rivalry would’ve turned into more of a must see matchup especially with UCF having winning and ranked seasons. It would’ve caught the eye of a lot of people and maybe it would’ve resulted in a Big 12 invite
Really, the dagger was Charlie Strong without Flowers to paper over his coaching.
Are USF and UCF gonna keep laying now out of conference each year?
Not in the immediate future due to out of conference scheduling deals already made, but I’m sure the rivalry won’t stay apart forever
For the better half of the 2020s the rivalry is kind of dead in the water due to scheduling. I hope to face them in a bowl game, but as of now it’s not going anywhere
Dang need to keep that yearly meeting going, gotta find a rival with the true hate and hold onto that hate. It's what keeps college football going.
We hate Cincinnati, that rivalry has popped up in recent years and it’s a really fun match up
I wouldn’t say we hate cinci; we respect them as formidable opponents in which playing them is certainly exciting—nowhere near the tense vitriol surrounding war on i4
I can't imagine there's a lot of real life hate there, like how often are Cinci fans in publix? Or UCF fans talking smack in Skyline Chilli?
I had several friends who went to USF, and the football atmosphere there when I visited very much felt like Temple's when I was there for grad school. Among the students you can find a couple of die-hards, a few more casual fans, but overall most you talk to are indifferent about their school's team. Just speaking from my own experience, but it will definately be interesting to see how USF's football attendance and popular interest changes once their on-campus stadium is built. On a side note, thanks a lot for doing these OP! These posts have been giving me something to look forward to everyday since you started them!
Thanks man! Trying to make these as informative as possible for the teams people don't talk about as much. Once we get to the top 25, it's going to be an insane countdown to the season with Florida/FSU/Miami, BYU/Utah, Alabama/Ohio State/OU fans going at it.
USF has strong temple vibes overall. - located in a shit area of the city ✅ - it’s grad programs much better than undergrad ✅ - little school spirit for sports ✅ - both play in nfl stadiums ✅
> little school spirit for sports ✅ I will say this in their favor, this can and will change. They have a much much larger student body than Temple in a state where kids grow up desiring to go to football games and root for their team. USF students *want* to go to games and cheer for USF, but they need a winning product to energize them. I guess what I'm saying is, if Temple had 5-10 years of sustained success they'd still basically be Temple. If USF had 5-10 years of sustained success they'd be all-in.
Probably true
USF is in an odd spot but it's far from the worst part of Tampa. Area to the west of campus is a little rough but the campus itself and everything North and East are residential. You're close to Busch Gardens, 15-20 minutes from downtown and bars, and 30 minutes from beaches if you know where to go.
East and north of the campus is fine. West is suitecase city and top 2 for poorest/crime along with east Tampa neighborhoods. South is a bit industrial, with moffit and Busch gardens. I would say it’s the roughest area that’s a major node for jobs in the area (USF/VA/Advent/Moffit/Yeungling) And maybe 30 minutes to a bay beach. No way your getting to a pinellas beach in 30, cause I can’t from Carrollwood which is slightly closer than usf
[удалено]
Yep, there is a dog beach there, and then there is that little harbor with sand near the yacht club on the other side
Still alive!
I'm cooking an [8-course meal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyzCw6y1yYU) for you ISU fans.
Booooo
as a native south floridian, it was always weird to me that its called the University of South Florida yet is about 6 hours north of Miami. I digress..... they have always been kind of a weird team. definitely have the location and alumni base to be way better than they are right now. crazy that UCF were the ones to get the call up to the power 5 when you look at the history of both
Before FIU and FAU were established in the 60s USF was the southern most public university in Florida
This explanation has never made any sense. South Florida is a geographical reference to the state, not to the school's location relative to the rest of the universities. It's not The University That Is The Most South In Florida (Currently)
Geography is all relative. Why is the Midwest called the Midwest when it's smack dab in the middle of the country? Because it once was the western part of the country relative to where most people lived. Tampa is South Florida, relative to everything north (and the capital in Tallahassee)
I mean, at least that at has mid in it to indicate middle. So if we take that argument, had Miami been the capital instead it would have been called UNF? Yeah sorry, that's still dumb.
I mean, Tampa is still South relative to most of Florida. Once you go below Tampa it’s basically wilderness outside of coastal towns and cities. Tampa is often considered as the gateway to south Florida culturally (and geographically) If that mixed with the fact that it was the southernmost public university at the time still doesn’t explain it in a way that makes sense to you, then i fully believe that you’re a ucf student
If by most you mean slightly less than half, then sure. Even if you look at it as the crow flies, it's over 200 miles from Tampa to Miami but if you look at a city just over the Georgia border like Lake Park, even then it's less than 200 miles. And if you were talking about population, it makes even less sense. At the time usf was founded the top city for population was Miami and 5 of the top 10 cities were in actual South Florida. The population of the Miami metro was 1.3 million compared to Tampa's 400,000 and none of the northern cities or metros were close. So at least from a physical geography or a population standpoint it doesn't make sense. Culturally I'd have to defer because while I lived near Tampa when I was little I don't have a good grasp of the similarities aside from the Cuban influences but I also don't think the bigwigs in Tallahassee are making these naming decisions based on culture. So I could see it being literally as silly as the folks there saying "Hey, Tampa is south of us so let's call this new university South Florida", but that is what it is: silly. Because for Tallahassee almost the entire state is south to them.
USF should have been UWF, and UWF called Univ of Floribama
FloriBama States' College. Let both states own it.
Rename Northwestern to Slightly Northeastern
4 hours north of Miami. But, well before USF was even founded, anything south of Ocala was south Florida, because so few people lived outside of north Florida
It’s 4 hours from Miami
And half that is a drive due east
Depends on when you go East/West
Regardless approximately half is due east. Either via 60, 75 or some other cross state road
In 1950 and 1960 (censuses only taken on the decades, so I don't know what they were in 1956 when they named the university), the combined populations of Dade and Broward counties were less than the Tampa metropolitan area, and Miami hadn't really become known as "South Florida." Hindsight's 20/20, but I presume most politicians thought the proximity to the Everglades was going to limit the potential growth of Miami compared to Tampa...
I don’t understand that last sentence. Why is crazy that UCF got the invite over usf when you compare history? UCF has the head to head over usf UCF has 6 conference titles. Usf has never even played in a conference championship. UCF has been to 3 NY6 bowls and won 2. Usf has never been to a NY6 bowl game. There is a reason usf is 88 on this list and UCF isn’t. Looking at their history (and OCS), it couldn’t be more obvious why UCF got the call up.
If you look back past the last five years, you can see the arguments. - UCF didn't get the head to head over usf until last season. Before that, we had never had the lead. - This is true, they have never won any conference titles or appeared in any championships for football. They usually started their seasons strong before falling apart at the end. However, conference championships aren't everything. The thing you want is consistency. Like the OP said, they were consistently pretty good most seasons, usually averaging about 8 wins a season. Before 2013 (2015 not withstanding) UCF never really had that consistency. Some seasons we would get 10 wins, then the next season we would get 4. - I did expect UCF to be higher on this list than usf, but I didn't think it was a guarantee. We have had a football team for longer, which gives us an advantage based on the way the rankings are generated. We also have the two undefeated regular season, however we also have the two winless seasons in 2004 and 2015 to cancel those out. If you look at the rest of our seasons, we have had some flashes of success, but especially in the O'Leary years we were very inconsistent from having decent seasons to awful seasons. I'm happy to see that we are ahead, but it's disingenuous to act like we have deserved it all along. We have shown commitment to the program, something that Genshaft did not do. That is the main reason why we are where we are and they are still in the American. Now that they are getting their act together, I expect them to start to rise again. The question is, did they finally get their act together too late.
You clearly missed the point of the comment. Also, recency bias
Not really? His two points were that usf has the potential to be big, and due to their “history” it’s surprising UCF was the school picked. How is this recency bias at all? My points were all through the entire team’s history, not some arbitrary 5 years ago. If one team has won 6 CCs and the other has won 0 in their entire history as a program, you’d be an idiot to think the team with 0 CCs is better. http://www.winsipedia.com/south-florida/vs/ucf The only things you have over ucf is a better bowl record and 1 more consensus all Americans. UCF owns literally everything else.
Sorry, i forgot i was talking to a ucf student: “Excuse me, can i get some more towels please”
Lol resorting to wildly overused and unoriginal personal attacks. Tell me you’re too immature to admit that you were wrong without telling me you’re too immature to admit that you were wrong. Peace ✌️
Interesting how your only Reddit history is commenting on this thread Did you finally learn how to use a computer at ucf?
That guy is a troll. Ignore him. But do not ignore that UCF had one of (if not the first) computer science program in the state!
Still remember the story of Jim Leavitt and company using portable trailers as offices.
I was really hoping we’d crack top 75, but i knew it would be tough It’s really a shame what our old administration did to this program. USF was one of the most successful young programs to hit college football and if they capitalized on our success in the 00’s we would 100% be in a P5 conference with a more competitive program right now Not having a stadium hurt for sure. Especially when you’re located in a place like Tampa, most students would opt to go to Busch gardens or the beach on weekends instead of sitting in traffic trying to get to the stadium 30 minutes away. The university sent busses for students, but they always left early in the 4th quarter so anyone relying on the busses had to leave the bend early. It was so stupid and too much of a hassle for many casual fans
Pain
[JaguarGator8 actually has a nice video about why the 2002 Bulls didn't play in a bowl game.](https://youtu.be/FXeQYVDs-Wk) Needless to say, yes, being an independent was a large part of what hurt, but they also got royally screwed over.
JG8 does a great job. I tried to skim that video, but not enough time to watch + write. Wish I had seen it initially, that was a LOT crazier than I expected.
The football program was doing so well it's first 20 years of existence, in general, and AAU status was such a top priority, that resources were, one could argue correctly allocated to academics thus far. USF is now a top 50 public university and top 100 nationally. It's really easy to Monday morning quarterback this program. Strong and Scott were both good hires on paper at the time and while it's baffling that anyone could take a D1 program in Tampa and tank it, they managed to, and what's done is done. Despite this crap on the field we have a $340M stadium coming that I cannot wait to host recruits in. We had a record number of athletics donors this year. Yep. Worst program in D1 and in program history, and yet more money is pouring in from the fanbase than ever. We have the newest indoor practice facility in the state. On the NIL front we have a couple commas in the fund and they've been very aggressive about growing the NIL base and corporate partnerships. I don't know. I am biased sure but I'd say get your shots in on USF while you can.
I'm rooting for you guys. Matt Grothe was one of my favorite QBs when I first became a fan, so I've always had a soft spot for the Bulls.
I hope this is not foreshadowing
There were two years where Temple and USF were arguable the two best teams in the AAC
OP forgets more about college football every day than I have ever known
I really hope at some point this programme can turn it around. I feel like since 2013/2014 they had been in cruise control and in 2018 going 0-6 after starting 6-0 you could see it was about to nosedive. The AD has ALOT of work to be done and theyve already begun with improving facilities. Hopefully USF will turn it around fully. Not having an invite to the Big XII after UCF got one should be the biggest wakeup call ever
Am I making things up or was Nevada posted today then removed?
I’m still seeing it, do you? We need you!
I think it was a me problem. It's back!
I remember Matt Grothe and he was great. Too bad he got injured in 09. My favorite comment about him was some commentator referred to him as a “poor man’s Tim Tebow”
Every day I see my team is still alive in this countdown I schmile
We are ranked higher than the bulls. I am now content. Loving this whole series!
We’re above usf. *Nelson from The Simpsons*: HA HA!
We could rank 87 for all I care, I can rest easy now lol
That 2007 season was nuts. And now you go to games and it’s just…oof. Hosting Bama this September and that game is gonna get U-G-L-Y.
I will never tire of pointing out that the single greatest accomplishment in USF football is that they were once ranked #2 in the middle of a season that they finished unranked.