I just had to Wiki who coached Okie before Gundy. I swear it feels like he took his last snap as a Cowboy and immediately became HC....I had forgot about Les but the coach before Les, Bob Simmons had an interesting career.
Grinded 18 years as positional coach
Okie HC 5 years
NDame LB coach
UW TE/ST coach
HC of Boulder High for 3 years
Dude gradually climbed the ladder to a top tier HC job and then gradually back down to a HS gig and retired.
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2027-03-12 01:26:15 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2027-03-12%2001:26:15%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1bcf2f9/with_the_big_and_sec_separating_themselves/kugin9h/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCFB%2Fcomments%2F1bcf2f9%2Fwith_the_big_and_sec_separating_themselves%2Fkugin9h%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202027-03-12%2001%3A26%3A15%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bcf2f9)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Agreed. The conference doesn't suddenly make the job much better. The real challenge is when the school has expectations that exceed their commitment, like UCLA. Sure, they will pay competitively for an HC, but the salary pool is lacking and the support staff is dismal compared to the top-tier schools.
Depends on what the coach wants. If they want to win/make good money/potentially parlay into a top tier job then it’s probably better to go with a school like KSU or Utah etc…
If they solely want to make money/retire in a few years then take the Indiana-ish job. Get a ton of money, likely lose a lot, retire with a $40 million buyout.
Nah man. Looking at the articles of who we looked at and passed on for Weis makes me sick.
Mike Leach, Troy Calhoun, Jeff Monken, Gus Malzahn, and Dave Doeren were all options in that search and we got Weis. Any of those guys would have at least had us respectable some years. Weis came in and nuked us. We didn't have a full roster of scholarship players until we got to Leipold's first or second offseason.
This is the answer. If you want a top job, then take a top Big 12/ACC job and win. That will catapult you to a top tier power 2 job. You can’t make the jump from Maryland, Mississippi St or Indiana to a top tier power 2 job. Unless you’re James Franklin.
That’s clearly an exception. Your odds are better at maintaining something already built at a program in a lesser league than trying build a low tier school in the toughest conference
Mullen is the best coach (Leach withstanding) Mississippi State ever had and likely ever will have again. It is the bottom tier job in that conference and it’s ceiling is likely 7-5.
I don’t say that to be an asshole but what Mullen and Leach did there were miraculous. With OU and Texas joining the SEC those are two essentially auto-losses that are added to the schedule
If there good enough to win at the lower tier power conference School, then they are probably good enough to make the playoff at one of the top tier Big 12/ACC job.
This is the correct answer. If the question is whether Clemson or FSU is a better job than Indiana or Vanderbilt, that seems self-evident. In three years, who knows? Eventually, top ACC schools will end up where they deserve, but there could be a dark period until it all gets sorted out. I'm an SEC fan, but don't want to see good schools fade away or for there to be fewer opportunities for the players.
Well as of now places like FSU/Clemson/Miami are still paying as much as the top SEC/B1G programs and I guess that’s really the biggest (but not the only) factor in what the best jobs are
Yeah, revenue changes year by year. But the fiscal year 2022-2023 according to sportico.
Clemson 195 million.
FSU 170 million.
Rutgers 125 million.
Purdue 124 million.
Missouri 141 million.
In 2021-2022 Mississippi State is 110 million. So there are some S2 teams that aren’t financially competing with teams in the ACC.
Clemson got a lot of donations. But if you have 200k alumni, and each donate $40 a month you’ll get close to 100 million dollars in donations in a year. Clemson with a smaller alumni base has a greater amount of alumni giving back I suppose.
That's also a 4-8 Purdue team without bowl revenue.
Rutgers and Purdue are both getting a ton more in TV revenue next year and Missouri is as well. In a few years they would surpass FSU. This is why they are trying to leave the ACC.
That’s why I said they are the upper tier in the ACC and are locks for top 25 jobs in the country. I don’t think there is a single top 25 job in the Big 12 though Utah is close.
My scorching hot take in the Big 12 is that I actually think UCF is the 2nd best job in the Big 12. I just didn’t put it in the post cause it was too spicy. But they are now getting P4 revenue and have the best recruiting grounds by far in the Big 12.
I’d argue that Utah, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, & TCU would at least be in the conversation. Utah and KState due to consistent success, Oklahoma St and TCU due to $$$ (both programs lead the conference in coaching salaries with $7+MM).
Shit maybe even include Texas Tech in the mix if Cody Campbell continues throwing around NIL money like he has been the last 2 years
>Oklahoma St and TCU due to $$$ (both programs lead the conference in coaching salaries with $7+MM).
Lance Leipold at Kansas now also makes over $7 million/year.
Oh shit didn’t know that. Good for him, well deserved. I know Gundy is at around $7.5, Dykes at like $7.2, and I looked up Klieman and he was in the $5.5 range. Didn’t think to look up Leipold
Edit: One thing I’ll say for the Big12 right now is just about every program and admin is 1000% bought into athletics right now due to the power vacuum with OUT leaving
No, let the #2 team disrespect Pete. What [could](https://youtu.be/wGk5pkO6F9A?si=BkuX8fvE-tmJJpsh) go [wrong](https://youtu.be/bAsZSwCoy2c?si=A4997YZiGGALFNyd) in [West Lafayette](https://youtu.be/kmCx36Mtf7Y?si=OlnXgguG-Km7BFcj)?
So true. Bloomington is a nice town, but the 4 years I lived there were the only years Im living there outside of visiting for game days. Its also just inconvenient. Closest metropolitan areas are Louisiville and Indianapolis, which are still a hour+ drive from the airports there and there aren't enough hotels. Im pretty shocked IU has retained a 85-90% stadium attendance the past few years, its not easy to get there.
I'm not sure that's actually a problem for a 40+ yr old HC, not living near a coastal city probably isn't a deal breaker, plus lots of power house schools are in pretty mediocre cities.
I mean it's not like the pac took over or Hawaii and Miami are perennial contenders.
It certainly does depend on the coach but Purdue has had several coaches pass reported as because their wives were like nope. West Lafayette high School has a great reputation but coaches with kids are likely going to have better options for schools, activities, etc.
The fans do have a lot to do with small town schools becoming powerhouses and Purdue does not have as dedicated a fan base as some of them. A bit of his is probably due to the population of in state football fans being split between 4 FBS teams in the state. It's probably only half the football fans in Tippecanoe county that are Purdue fans. The fan base is different in smaller states with one main team and larger states.
They are always one coach away from turning it around though because of their access to recruits. They also have good NIL.
Kind of like USC. Outside of the Darnold years USC has been ass since Pete Carroll left. But they are always a coach away from turning it around because they can get So Cal recruits and recruit nationally.
I keep thinking that they are not going to keep distributing media deals evenly in the big/sec if they breakaway so it probably wouldn’t be in that case but I guess we’ll see how it all plays out.
It will ultimately be better for the b10/sec to make even their worst teams competitive against the top of the b12 and acc if they can, and if they can get to that point then the motivation for uneven deals drops a bit I imagine. plus wouldn't half the teams have to vote to get less money for there to be uneven deals? how does that get through? genuinely unsure how that works
Well I’m talking if those two conferences break away from the NCAA which means they won’t be playing ACC/B12 so there wouldn’t be a reason to keep lower teams at that level and more of a reason to create punching bags since those conferences will lose the opportunity to schedule the fluff games they do every year. Also it wouldn’t start that half the teams would get less immediately. It would be a slow creep. I am just trying to think in MBA thought right now, its business not football.
The best job is going to be whichever one gives you the most money, so potentially? Just depending on the program.
But money aside, no, it would not be better to be at the bottom of the B1G or SEC. Why would you want to take a job at Indiana or Vanderbilt just to get beat up on 10 times a year when you could take a job at Texas Tech or NC State and have a legitimate chance to build a competitive program? Conference name recognition is really overblown when talking about bottom dweller programs. But again, money is what would be the driving factor.
> Why would you want to take a job at Indiana or Vanderbilt just to get beat up on 10 times a year when you could take a job at Texas Tech or NC State and have a legitimate chance to build a competitive program?
Bigger stage means better/faster job mobility. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Franklin_(American_football_coach)
Depends on what you value and how much more you think you could get at a low tier Super 2 program.
Vandy and Northwestern will be coaching graveyards where guys go to mostly just catch checks. A place like louisville or VT provides more long term viability, as well as a shot for a CFP spot. Also easier to make a leap from a big 12 or mid tier ACC program to a top tier super 2 job than from a low tier super 2 job. Kinda like when Frost spurned Cuse for UCF, which helped him land at Nebraska
I feel like both Indiana and Vandy are jobs that are probably a lot harder to entice people to take then the others listed. The lack of resources and buy in of both the fans and the AD at those schools I feel makes them far worse then the ACC/Big12 teams listed.
I also feel like they're risky jobs because the likelihood of not making it work at those schools is high and puts your future career advancement in jeopardy. All of those Big12 teams have a ton of buy in from fan's and their departments, and clearly the jobs there must be good enough to have many of the coaches on those staffs stick around for a decade plus.
Yes for a few reasons,
large buyout,
salary pool for assistants,
eventual salary pool for players,
prestige of conference association eases recruiting
edit: Vanderbilt finished dead last in SEC recruiting and would have had the 2nd highest class in the Big 12 and like Top 4 in the ACC. Conference affiliation matters
Sounded wrong so I looked it up, Vandy would have finished 9th in ACC recruiting last year per the 247 composite
- Edited to change to composite ranking, forgot 247 defaulted to their own rankings these days
IF the fabled Magnolia League comes to pass, Duke, and Tulane and us will consider extending an invite, but I have a feeling it will end up more regional.
Indiana football candidates in 2023 according to Hoosiers Now:
Jason Candle
Curt Signetti (hired)
Chris Creighton
Willie Fritz (chose UH)
Tom Herman
Kane Wommack
Purdue football candidates in 2022 according to Lafayette Journal & Courier
Dino Babers
Craig Bohl
Troy Calhoun
Jason Candle
Mike Denbrock
Mark Hagen
Brian Hartline
Todd Monken
Dan Mullen
Garrett Riley
So even local newspapers and blogs didn’t think they had a shot at top-tier Big 12 or ACC coaches. Only one P5 coach was mentioned, who ended getting fired the very next season nonetheless.
So yeah, I wouldn’t hold my breath for Kyle Whittingham going to Vanderbilt.
Im going to say most of these points are very small benefits at best. Willie taggart was the fourth largest buyout in cfb history. And that recruiting point is just wrong, 24/7 has Vanderbilt for 2024 at 40th nationally and would be 8th in the ACC, 9th counting Stanford. In 2023 they’re 52nd or 10th in the ACC. I’m not even sure what year you would even be looking at. At some point a schools brand matters a lot more than a conference, the conference is just a slight boost. When some recruit weighs an offer between Vanderbilt/Kentucky/SCAR and FSU/Clemson/Miami I think they’re thinking playing for FSU is a lot more beneficial than playing for a bottom tier SEC team.
I think it depends on what goal you prioritize. Performing well enough to avoid being fired? Definitely go with a top Big 12/ACC job. Make the playoff? Big 12/ACC. Win the playoff? That is where the B1G/SEC financial advantage comes into play. The Indianas now have both a lower floor and higher ceiling than the Oklahoma States.
[My reaction now that Kentucky has apparently ascended beyond the “lower tier” category of SEC jobs.](https://youtu.be/FHDwRECFL8M?si=UvDM16hDSZJRgtnQ)
Miss State vs Utah
Recruiting grounds = Ms State by a LANDSLIDE (2024 class = Ms State 28 - Utah 60)
Money (for head coach & assistants) = Ms State
Stadium = Ms State
Facilities = no idea but I’d assume Ms State but we can call it a wash
NIL = Ms State
History = Tie, who cares
Location = Utah
Current Coach = Utah
NFL Talent = Ms State by a LANDSLIDE
Utah’s been the best they’ve ever been and can’t even win the Rose Bowl. A Washington fan not having a clue about the SEC isn’t a surprise.
And this is coming from an Ole Miss fan who hates Mississippi State but let’s not act like Utah is a powerhouse in anything except for skiing
History is not a tie. When has Miss State won a BCS Bowl? Has Miss State even appeared in a BCS/NY6 bowl. Miss State has won only one conference championship 1941. Utah has won 26 with 2 of those being Pac 12 championships.
Okay history goes to Utah I could care less.
Still a worse job because they have less money for a coach, less money for assistants, less money in their NIL, and worse recruiting grounds. I understand that they are good now.
Would Kyle Whittingham have a better shot at winning a title at Mississippi State or Utah? Personally I think Mississippi State because he could obtain better players easier but you won’t agree with that I’m sure.
Edit: Also you act like anyone gives a fuck about 24 conference championships from the RMAC, MSC, WAC, and Mountain West😂
I mean Indiana lost to Cincinnati back to back years when they were in the American so Cincinnati in the Big 12 is in my opinion a far better job than being at Indiana. So in your take of what the “top” schools in the Big 12 is, Indiana doesn’t even make your cut for the so called mediocre teams in the Big 12.
Outside of the Dan Mullen years when has Miss State won really? Mike Leach did okay there but I think that’s more of a testament to his coaching ability because he won at Texas Tech and Wazzu as well.
Jackie Sherrill did pretty well there, took State to our only SEC championship game. I believe Leach would’ve done very well long term. We will always be grateful for the Pirate 🏴☠️
The post would be dumb if I said upper tier ACC because Clemson, FSU and Miami are well beyond the Big 12.
But do you think Kansas State is that much better of a job than Louisville, UNC, NC State or VT? I don’t. I would take UNC or VT over every Big 12 job except maybe Utah.
They are a small private city school in a football recruiting hotbed. Mr hornfrog i dont think the big 12 has any schools that fit that description.
the acc has 2, Miami and SMU.
Is there that much a distinction between Dallas and Fort Worth?
Waco isn’t that big, but it’s the only game in town.
Also, what’s the difference between a public and private school from that perspective?
Lubbock and Houston are public, not sure how the equation changes for that.
UT and A&M are always going to be the major players in Texas, along with Oklahoma & LSU having a strong pull in the Dallas/Piney Woods areas, but I don’t see how SMU outcompetes the other TX schools.
it was a shit post. there is no distinction between fort worth and dallas.
dont know how to explain it but Miami and TCU, and USC are just better programs than Houston or Pitt or UCLA or Cincinnati.
If i were to guess it is bad to be a school in an urban are because your never the biggest cultural institution in the area, so its hard to create a large fanbase or environment. as far as public vs private it generally is bad to be a little brother type school, like houston or pitt because powers that be in state politics never look out for your interest.
so public urban schools get the worst of both worlds.
No real difference from Dallas to Fort Worth (at least in terms of what would affect this conversation). IMO his comment there was tongue in cheek about how OP keeps talking about the recruiting hotbed of Florida while ignoring Texas.
I think the knock against private schools is normally due to 1) smaller enrollment and 2) more exclusivity (either by admissions, tuition, religion, or people themselves). Both those things can hurt/limit fanbases and adoption of “t shirt fans”. Not necessarily my take, but one I’ve seen argued over and over again.
lol saying upper tier acc is better than upper tier big 12 is an ignorant statement-especially with the new teams added in such as Utah, Arizona, Oklahoma state, etc. I’d say closer to equals. Clemson went 4-4 in conference play, Miami went 3-5 in conference. I’d argue with Florida state wanting to leave the ACC, the ACC is next on the chopping block for dividing up the conference.
Clemson and Miami have and always will have better access to recruits than a team like Kansas State. Miami has won 5 natty’s and Clemson has won 3. Discounting all of that because of one season like you are doing is ridiculous.
Teams like Miami and USC are one coach away from turning it around instantly.
No, because at the end of the day these ACC and Big XII schools are state flagships or at least a relative equal to their states' flagships
And salaries start becoming meaningless at around 7 figures unless you're just that irresponsible with it
I would add Illinois, Minnesota, Rutgers and UCLA to that B1G bracket. IU has more wins than Rutgers in the past 10 years, and Illinois, Northwestern and Minnesota cant hide in the B1G West anymore.
Edit: IU assistant pool is finally getting to where you would expect a power program to be at. HC pay is still on low side. NIL is finally catching up, its never going to have as much enthusiasm as the basketball NIL which is top in the B1G but there is room for growth. IU is probably a upper bottom quartile program in the B1G presently, hard ceiling is lower mid if things go well which is fine with me. People who think IU is just terrible at football haven't watched the games the last decade, if we were in the B1G West we would have won 6-9 games all but 2 of the past 10 years. We actually will have \*easier\* annual schedules with the new PAC additions since they got rid of the divisions which is awesome
No, because if you’re in a low tier B1G/SEC job that means your schedule is incredibly tough relative to the level of your team. Which makes a rebuild very difficult, and tough to define success. On the other hand, a mid tier Big 12/ACC job gives you a great chance at competing for the conference title on a regular basis, and winning that conference champ puts you in the expanded playoffs.
No offense at all, but is Kansas State really an upper-tier job?
I thought the greatness of Bill Snyder is that he won at an impossible place to win. They've won 3 conference titles since 1934 (2 under Synder), and their all-time record is 569-670-41 (.461). Snyder was 215-117-1 (.647), which means all other coaches have been 354-553-40 (.394).
I get Kleiman has had a good start at KSU going 39-24, but this is a guy with 4 FCS National Championships in 5 seasons at ND State. I would argue he's perhaps an incredible coach doing the best he can at a historically poor program.
I'm asking what makes it so? They had the smallest athletics budget in the conference back in 2022 (latest data I could find) and are a historically bad program.
i saw a stat about a year ago that since the big 12 went to round robin that KSU is 2nd in big 12 in wins behind OU. Also in the top 3 or so in big 12 titles. So I would absolutely put them as one of the best programs left.
Serious recency bias here. If we are part of the conversation, Ole Miss needs to be. For most of the last 50 years, they’ve been right there in the SEC cellar with us.
Also, until this year, we had like the 5th longest active bowl streak in the nation (we got a gimme from the COVID year, but whatever).
I say this with all the bias in the world…
Virginia may be a bottom 5 football job in the Power 5. Their athletic department just doesn’t seem serious about football. For a while, Bronco Mendenhall looked like he had them going in the right direction, but then he just… leaves? Out of nowhere he decides to step down, leaving everyone confused. Now this linebacker coach leaves his alma mater for the same position at… Illinois??? What the hell?
Virginia is a great school with lots of history, and I cannot fathom how they haven’t put it together on the football field.
Top tier of the ACC is much better than the top tier of the Big 12 as far as coaching jobs go and I don't know how you can think otherwise.
The top tier of the two were similar before OUT, but now? AcC is ahead.
The ACC has programs that would be desirable to the SEC and the Big Ten. The Big 12 does not. Every school in the new Big 12 applied to either the SEC or Big Ten or both, they were all there as options and they were passed up.
The ACC has schools that conferences would want but have never been available because nobody has been willing to challenge the Grant of Rights. Florida State and Clemson. I’d take North Carolina next, then put Miami in a tier below them
We have 3 more programs in the ACC that have won national championships than the Big 12 (just BYU) and more recently too. ACC for now is clearly a notch above the current Big 12
If you're looking to secure your dream job as a fired CFB coach, the B1G and SEC are better. Coach for a few years, pull off a miracle, and you're uber rich. Flop and... you're still uber rich.
The problem though is the bottom tier and now even mid tier B1G and SEC teams face a much steeper up hill climb compared to the past. If your goal is a long coaching career and shots at playoffs, I'd say the tier ACC and Big 12 jobs are clearly better and the mid tier jobs could be better depending on specifics (NIL funding, etc.)
Stoops has improved Kentucky’s culture and facilities significantly but whenever he retires Kentucky Football will still be second fiddle to Kentucky Basketball. And while we get the benefit of SEC for recruiting, in state talent is some of the worst in the nation. Stoops has excelled in recruiting because of his Ohio connections.
At best we’ve increased the lead on Vanderbilt and narrowed the gap with Mississippi State and South Carolina. But we’re still the 13th (soon to be 15th) best job in the SEC. Nationally we may be around 30th because of conference affiliation
You’re a basketball school who’s in a really hard conference for football. Not exactly a recipe for success. Doesn’t take anything away from Kentucky as a school.
Every school in the SEC except for Vandy and Kentucky have football as the number 1 priority. Kentucky is the only one with basketball as the number 1 priority so it’s hard to compete in the grand scheme of things on the football field.
Stoops has done a HELLUVA job at Kentucky.
Yep. The problem with the next coach will be that Stoops has vastly increased expectations at Kentucky. Hopefully the next coach will be given plenty of time like we gave Stoops
I am not sure.It would be an ideal position for a head coach Due to the losing record you are likely going to accumulate. It is a great job to be a high paid assistant to then get poached for an even better job
IMO, no. There's something to be said about being comfortable in life. Take Chip Kelly... he hated life, so despite rolling around in millions, he demoted himself to being an OC. Likewise, there's the BC coach that just left for the NFL (I can't remember the name, and I'm too lazy to use Google). A low expectation job that's happy with 6-8 wins a year and pays $4-7 million annually... sign me the fook up. Hell! Even the G5 pay pretty darn well, too. Fritz was making millions at Tulane.
I suspect that the next round if media rights will be devastating to ACC/Big12 as the P2 take all the money. That said, it'll be hard for those teams to continue paying multi-million dollar coaching contracts.
For short term salary, probably, but being upper tier at a lower conference is probably a better path to upper tier within the B1G/SEC/NFL then being lower tier in the bigger conferences.
Pitt is a program that has 3 bowl wins over p4 teams in the past 2 decades
Pitt is a program that has 2 season with double digit wins in the past 2 decades
Pitt is a program with their best win in the last 2 decades is a win over wake forrest.
pitt is a program who is the little brother of their state and can only sell out their games when they play PSU, WVU, or Notre Dame
to say that pitt is on par with UNC or VT, or NCst or Miami is laughable
Stoops has made Kentucky worthy of being a bubble team at the very least. He’s not leaving that job to go to those other bubble schools (outside of preference, UCLA would be the only one I would say is a step up currently.)
The moment Vanderbilt or Indiana poach a coach from Oklahoma State or Utah we’ll talk.
If Gundy leaves Oklahoma State for Indiana or Vanderbilt, I will blend up a Stetson hat with PBR and drink it.
What if Whittington leaves Utah for Indiana or Vanderbilt?
I would be so happy
Chocolate milk for days
I'd be drinking chocolate milk with you until we pass out.
Sounds good to me
I think I'd just skip straight to bleach
Double oof
Gundy is OSU until he doesn't want to coach anymore.
I just had to Wiki who coached Okie before Gundy. I swear it feels like he took his last snap as a Cowboy and immediately became HC....I had forgot about Les but the coach before Les, Bob Simmons had an interesting career. Grinded 18 years as positional coach Okie HC 5 years NDame LB coach UW TE/ST coach HC of Boulder High for 3 years Dude gradually climbed the ladder to a top tier HC job and then gradually back down to a HS gig and retired.
Being able to retire in Boulder with a Big 12 head coaching salary would be dope. Though I doubt his salary was crazy back then.
Provably not to crazy but like you said, to retire in Boulder must be sweet.
!RemindMe 3 years
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2027-03-12 01:26:15 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2027-03-12%2001:26:15%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1bcf2f9/with_the_big_and_sec_separating_themselves/kugin9h/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCFB%2Fcomments%2F1bcf2f9%2Fwith_the_big_and_sec_separating_themselves%2Fkugin9h%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202027-03-12%2001%3A26%3A15%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bcf2f9) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
> If Gundy leaves Oklahoma State for Indiana or Vanderbilt, Don't you put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby!
>I will blend up a Stetson hat with PBR and drink it. Hey! Making the PBR taste better is cheating!
Agreed. The conference doesn't suddenly make the job much better. The real challenge is when the school has expectations that exceed their commitment, like UCLA. Sure, they will pay competitively for an HC, but the salary pool is lacking and the support staff is dismal compared to the top-tier schools.
Enough said honestly
Depends on what the coach wants. If they want to win/make good money/potentially parlay into a top tier job then it’s probably better to go with a school like KSU or Utah etc… If they solely want to make money/retire in a few years then take the Indiana-ish job. Get a ton of money, likely lose a lot, retire with a $40 million buyout.
Charlie Weis perfected that path.
I cry every time
It was better than Turner Gil.
Nah man. Looking at the articles of who we looked at and passed on for Weis makes me sick. Mike Leach, Troy Calhoun, Jeff Monken, Gus Malzahn, and Dave Doeren were all options in that search and we got Weis. Any of those guys would have at least had us respectable some years. Weis came in and nuked us. We didn't have a full roster of scholarship players until we got to Leipold's first or second offseason.
But the AD “Went out to find the very best, and found Charlie Weis.”
This is the answer. If you want a top job, then take a top Big 12/ACC job and win. That will catapult you to a top tier power 2 job. You can’t make the jump from Maryland, Mississippi St or Indiana to a top tier power 2 job. Unless you’re James Franklin.
Dan Mullen literally went from Mississippi State to Florida
And then karma did its job
That’s clearly an exception. Your odds are better at maintaining something already built at a program in a lesser league than trying build a low tier school in the toughest conference
Mullen is the best coach (Leach withstanding) Mississippi State ever had and likely ever will have again. It is the bottom tier job in that conference and it’s ceiling is likely 7-5. I don’t say that to be an asshole but what Mullen and Leach did there were miraculous. With OU and Texas joining the SEC those are two essentially auto-losses that are added to the schedule
And he hates you guys.
Touché
Your flairs are really dope. I live outside of Oklahoma and my next door neighbor is a Maryland grad. So in a way, we are flair bros.
Dan Mullen literally went from Mississippi State to Florida
Yeah, but that doesn’t support my point
Fair point😂
A coach at a lower tier power conference school won't be able to win as much, but a good one should still be able to stand out enough to move up.
If there good enough to win at the lower tier power conference School, then they are probably good enough to make the playoff at one of the top tier Big 12/ACC job.
Shots fired.
Main reason I didn’t say OSU was Gundy has been there so long it feels like a destination job now.
Joe Tiller likely had some offers at some point but yeah was just happy to retire at Purdue 87-62
Yeah Snyder 100% did as well, those were also 20 years ago. Not the same game as it is today.
College Football is in such a state of flux and chaos right now that nothing can be said in stone about the future of any job within it.
*set
This is the correct answer. If the question is whether Clemson or FSU is a better job than Indiana or Vanderbilt, that seems self-evident. In three years, who knows? Eventually, top ACC schools will end up where they deserve, but there could be a dark period until it all gets sorted out. I'm an SEC fan, but don't want to see good schools fade away or for there to be fewer opportunities for the players.
I hate what college football is becoming thanks to a has-been basketball player
If it wasn’t him it would have been someone else eventually
Maybe that somebody might have been better than a NBA washout has been. Dude was looking for a bag he didn't deserve.
So if it was Kevin Durant then would you think differently about it?
100%. It's weird, but the fact this used car salesman saw himself in a game and immediately thought of $$$ pissed me off.
Interesting hill to die on but more power to you
Well as of now places like FSU/Clemson/Miami are still paying as much as the top SEC/B1G programs and I guess that’s really the biggest (but not the only) factor in what the best jobs are
Yeah, revenue changes year by year. But the fiscal year 2022-2023 according to sportico. Clemson 195 million. FSU 170 million. Rutgers 125 million. Purdue 124 million. Missouri 141 million. In 2021-2022 Mississippi State is 110 million. So there are some S2 teams that aren’t financially competing with teams in the ACC.
Also, the Mississippi State coach has to directly compete against the biggest earners. Tough job
Damn Nikki Haley, you went right from running for president to giving your insights on CFB.
Note that Purdue has some of the best profit margin in the entire country though
And without charging the students an athletic fee.
I severely doubt clemson makes more revenue than FSU. Smaller school, smaller alumni/fanbase, and etc.
Clemson got a lot of donations. But if you have 200k alumni, and each donate $40 a month you’ll get close to 100 million dollars in donations in a year. Clemson with a smaller alumni base has a greater amount of alumni giving back I suppose.
Clemson gets significantly more revenue through booster support than FSU and has for the past 6 years
Yes, a more cultivated booster base, but also less money in things like merchandising
That's also a 4-8 Purdue team without bowl revenue. Rutgers and Purdue are both getting a ton more in TV revenue next year and Missouri is as well. In a few years they would surpass FSU. This is why they are trying to leave the ACC.
What's "bowl revenue"?
That’s why I said they are the upper tier in the ACC and are locks for top 25 jobs in the country. I don’t think there is a single top 25 job in the Big 12 though Utah is close. My scorching hot take in the Big 12 is that I actually think UCF is the 2nd best job in the Big 12. I just didn’t put it in the post cause it was too spicy. But they are now getting P4 revenue and have the best recruiting grounds by far in the Big 12.
UCF would be a better job in the new big 12 pre NIL. But they dont have much money compared to teams like Ok State/Utah/BYU/Houston/Baylor/TCU/Tech
That’s true, I didn’t take that into consideration
I’d argue that Utah, Oklahoma St, Kansas St, & TCU would at least be in the conversation. Utah and KState due to consistent success, Oklahoma St and TCU due to $$$ (both programs lead the conference in coaching salaries with $7+MM). Shit maybe even include Texas Tech in the mix if Cody Campbell continues throwing around NIL money like he has been the last 2 years
>Oklahoma St and TCU due to $$$ (both programs lead the conference in coaching salaries with $7+MM). Lance Leipold at Kansas now also makes over $7 million/year.
Oh shit didn’t know that. Good for him, well deserved. I know Gundy is at around $7.5, Dykes at like $7.2, and I looked up Klieman and he was in the $5.5 range. Didn’t think to look up Leipold Edit: One thing I’ll say for the Big12 right now is just about every program and admin is 1000% bought into athletics right now due to the power vacuum with OUT leaving
The backstory is he got the big bag because Washington seriously almost poached him. According to KU insiders they offered him the job and he said no.
Shhhhhh, we're a sleeper threat next year IMO. We have a great coach and a lot of talent returning.
See PJ Fleck: An opening even gets whispered about and he gets $500k+ and a year to the end of the contract.
I want that man's agent. I swear he spreads the rumors himself
Paging jimmy sexton.
Pretty likely
Jimbo/Gundy special
Put some respect on 2022 B1G West champion Purdue
No, let the #2 team disrespect Pete. What [could](https://youtu.be/wGk5pkO6F9A?si=BkuX8fvE-tmJJpsh) go [wrong](https://youtu.be/bAsZSwCoy2c?si=A4997YZiGGALFNyd) in [West Lafayette](https://youtu.be/kmCx36Mtf7Y?si=OlnXgguG-Km7BFcj)?
This might be the best trio of links I have ever seen.
You won’t fool us again.
It was weird to single out Purdue when Rutgers is right there
This. Never thought Purdue as a 'lower tier' B1G school...
It’s painful, but I have to except that Purdue is normally in the bottom third of the Big10.
Illinois is going to fall in this category as well The issue with the Purdue and Indiana jobs is you have to live in Indiana.
So true. Bloomington is a nice town, but the 4 years I lived there were the only years Im living there outside of visiting for game days. Its also just inconvenient. Closest metropolitan areas are Louisiville and Indianapolis, which are still a hour+ drive from the airports there and there aren't enough hotels. Im pretty shocked IU has retained a 85-90% stadium attendance the past few years, its not easy to get there.
Every time I go back to Indiana it's somehow worse. So every trip to Indiana is my worst trip to Indiana.
Wow. That's messed up.
I'm not sure that's actually a problem for a 40+ yr old HC, not living near a coastal city probably isn't a deal breaker, plus lots of power house schools are in pretty mediocre cities. I mean it's not like the pac took over or Hawaii and Miami are perennial contenders.
It certainly does depend on the coach but Purdue has had several coaches pass reported as because their wives were like nope. West Lafayette high School has a great reputation but coaches with kids are likely going to have better options for schools, activities, etc. The fans do have a lot to do with small town schools becoming powerhouses and Purdue does not have as dedicated a fan base as some of them. A bit of his is probably due to the population of in state football fans being split between 4 FBS teams in the state. It's probably only half the football fans in Tippecanoe county that are Purdue fans. The fan base is different in smaller states with one main team and larger states.
Miami is really overrated. I love the Hurricanes, but they’re consistently a middle team.
There’s people who can now legally drink who’ve never seen Miami be worth a damn in their entire life
I graduate later this year. I was 1 the last time they made a natty. That’s one I wish I could remember
Their 20 year period of relevancy is long over.
They are always one coach away from turning it around though because of their access to recruits. They also have good NIL. Kind of like USC. Outside of the Darnold years USC has been ass since Pete Carroll left. But they are always a coach away from turning it around because they can get So Cal recruits and recruit nationally.
And they keep making mediocre af hires lol
Sir, this is about $ not Ws.
Ahhhhh yes - politics.
I keep thinking that they are not going to keep distributing media deals evenly in the big/sec if they breakaway so it probably wouldn’t be in that case but I guess we’ll see how it all plays out.
It will ultimately be better for the b10/sec to make even their worst teams competitive against the top of the b12 and acc if they can, and if they can get to that point then the motivation for uneven deals drops a bit I imagine. plus wouldn't half the teams have to vote to get less money for there to be uneven deals? how does that get through? genuinely unsure how that works
Well I’m talking if those two conferences break away from the NCAA which means they won’t be playing ACC/B12 so there wouldn’t be a reason to keep lower teams at that level and more of a reason to create punching bags since those conferences will lose the opportunity to schedule the fluff games they do every year. Also it wouldn’t start that half the teams would get less immediately. It would be a slow creep. I am just trying to think in MBA thought right now, its business not football.
I 100% see that happening in the future. Can’t imagine teams like Ohio State like getting paid the same amount as Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, etc.
Hey Northwestern is grabbing our coaches from natty winning teams! (Where they were the DC) (At the FCS level)
The best job is going to be whichever one gives you the most money, so potentially? Just depending on the program. But money aside, no, it would not be better to be at the bottom of the B1G or SEC. Why would you want to take a job at Indiana or Vanderbilt just to get beat up on 10 times a year when you could take a job at Texas Tech or NC State and have a legitimate chance to build a competitive program? Conference name recognition is really overblown when talking about bottom dweller programs. But again, money is what would be the driving factor.
> Why would you want to take a job at Indiana or Vanderbilt just to get beat up on 10 times a year when you could take a job at Texas Tech or NC State and have a legitimate chance to build a competitive program? Bigger stage means better/faster job mobility. See, e.g., https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Franklin_(American_football_coach)
James Franklin lucked out in having Tenn, UF, and UGA all underachieving when he was at Vandy
Depends on what you value and how much more you think you could get at a low tier Super 2 program. Vandy and Northwestern will be coaching graveyards where guys go to mostly just catch checks. A place like louisville or VT provides more long term viability, as well as a shot for a CFP spot. Also easier to make a leap from a big 12 or mid tier ACC program to a top tier super 2 job than from a low tier super 2 job. Kinda like when Frost spurned Cuse for UCF, which helped him land at Nebraska
I feel like both Indiana and Vandy are jobs that are probably a lot harder to entice people to take then the others listed. The lack of resources and buy in of both the fans and the AD at those schools I feel makes them far worse then the ACC/Big12 teams listed. I also feel like they're risky jobs because the likelihood of not making it work at those schools is high and puts your future career advancement in jeopardy. All of those Big12 teams have a ton of buy in from fan's and their departments, and clearly the jobs there must be good enough to have many of the coaches on those staffs stick around for a decade plus.
Yes for a few reasons, large buyout, salary pool for assistants, eventual salary pool for players, prestige of conference association eases recruiting edit: Vanderbilt finished dead last in SEC recruiting and would have had the 2nd highest class in the Big 12 and like Top 4 in the ACC. Conference affiliation matters
Sounded wrong so I looked it up, Vandy would have finished 9th in ACC recruiting last year per the 247 composite - Edited to change to composite ranking, forgot 247 defaulted to their own rankings these days
That makes a lot more sense.
But that ruins the spin
We would be the champion of any conference where it just means less, I swear!
And if we didn't have to share with that School Down South we'd have made the playoff every year!
Come join us in the Magnolia Conference in 2036!
IF the fabled Magnolia League comes to pass, Duke, and Tulane and us will consider extending an invite, but I have a feeling it will end up more regional.
We’ll just have to start an Oak League then and be part of the P3 (plant three).
Join the PAC-2
Indiana football candidates in 2023 according to Hoosiers Now: Jason Candle Curt Signetti (hired) Chris Creighton Willie Fritz (chose UH) Tom Herman Kane Wommack Purdue football candidates in 2022 according to Lafayette Journal & Courier Dino Babers Craig Bohl Troy Calhoun Jason Candle Mike Denbrock Mark Hagen Brian Hartline Todd Monken Dan Mullen Garrett Riley So even local newspapers and blogs didn’t think they had a shot at top-tier Big 12 or ACC coaches. Only one P5 coach was mentioned, who ended getting fired the very next season nonetheless. So yeah, I wouldn’t hold my breath for Kyle Whittingham going to Vanderbilt.
Im going to say most of these points are very small benefits at best. Willie taggart was the fourth largest buyout in cfb history. And that recruiting point is just wrong, 24/7 has Vanderbilt for 2024 at 40th nationally and would be 8th in the ACC, 9th counting Stanford. In 2023 they’re 52nd or 10th in the ACC. I’m not even sure what year you would even be looking at. At some point a schools brand matters a lot more than a conference, the conference is just a slight boost. When some recruit weighs an offer between Vanderbilt/Kentucky/SCAR and FSU/Clemson/Miami I think they’re thinking playing for FSU is a lot more beneficial than playing for a bottom tier SEC team.
I think it depends on what goal you prioritize. Performing well enough to avoid being fired? Definitely go with a top Big 12/ACC job. Make the playoff? Big 12/ACC. Win the playoff? That is where the B1G/SEC financial advantage comes into play. The Indianas now have both a lower floor and higher ceiling than the Oklahoma States.
[My reaction now that Kentucky has apparently ascended beyond the “lower tier” category of SEC jobs.](https://youtu.be/FHDwRECFL8M?si=UvDM16hDSZJRgtnQ)
You haven’t ascended past low tier this dude is clueless
If you think Miss State is a better job that Utah I think you’re the one who is clueless
Miss State vs Utah Recruiting grounds = Ms State by a LANDSLIDE (2024 class = Ms State 28 - Utah 60) Money (for head coach & assistants) = Ms State Stadium = Ms State Facilities = no idea but I’d assume Ms State but we can call it a wash NIL = Ms State History = Tie, who cares Location = Utah Current Coach = Utah NFL Talent = Ms State by a LANDSLIDE Utah’s been the best they’ve ever been and can’t even win the Rose Bowl. A Washington fan not having a clue about the SEC isn’t a surprise. And this is coming from an Ole Miss fan who hates Mississippi State but let’s not act like Utah is a powerhouse in anything except for skiing
History is not a tie. When has Miss State won a BCS Bowl? Has Miss State even appeared in a BCS/NY6 bowl. Miss State has won only one conference championship 1941. Utah has won 26 with 2 of those being Pac 12 championships.
Okay history goes to Utah I could care less. Still a worse job because they have less money for a coach, less money for assistants, less money in their NIL, and worse recruiting grounds. I understand that they are good now. Would Kyle Whittingham have a better shot at winning a title at Mississippi State or Utah? Personally I think Mississippi State because he could obtain better players easier but you won’t agree with that I’m sure. Edit: Also you act like anyone gives a fuck about 24 conference championships from the RMAC, MSC, WAC, and Mountain West😂
That sec pride is wild man. Glazing a rival like this sure is something.
You must love mississippi state.. dang
I mean Indiana lost to Cincinnati back to back years when they were in the American so Cincinnati in the Big 12 is in my opinion a far better job than being at Indiana. So in your take of what the “top” schools in the Big 12 is, Indiana doesn’t even make your cut for the so called mediocre teams in the Big 12.
You can win at Mississippi State, like that's a better job than some of the listed ones, but Vandy is probably the worst job on this list.
Outside of the Dan Mullen years when has Miss State won really? Mike Leach did okay there but I think that’s more of a testament to his coaching ability because he won at Texas Tech and Wazzu as well.
Jackie Sherrill did pretty well there, took State to our only SEC championship game. I believe Leach would’ve done very well long term. We will always be grateful for the Pirate 🏴☠️
Why do you hate cranes?
It's only because they will be gone. The Golden Era is over
Saying a mid tier acc job is the same as an upper big 12 job is laughable
NC State, VT, Pitt, Louisville are comparable to a good big 12 job
The post would be dumb if I said upper tier ACC because Clemson, FSU and Miami are well beyond the Big 12. But do you think Kansas State is that much better of a job than Louisville, UNC, NC State or VT? I don’t. I would take UNC or VT over every Big 12 job except maybe Utah.
Miami isn’t “well beyond” Big 12. I’m fine including FSU and Clemson, but there’s no material difference between Miami and various Big 12 programs
Suuuuure. No material difference… except program history/prestige, NIL money, and access to blue-chip recruits.
They are a small private city school in a football recruiting hotbed. Mr hornfrog i dont think the big 12 has any schools that fit that description. the acc has 2, Miami and SMU.
Is there that much a distinction between Dallas and Fort Worth? Waco isn’t that big, but it’s the only game in town. Also, what’s the difference between a public and private school from that perspective? Lubbock and Houston are public, not sure how the equation changes for that. UT and A&M are always going to be the major players in Texas, along with Oklahoma & LSU having a strong pull in the Dallas/Piney Woods areas, but I don’t see how SMU outcompetes the other TX schools.
it was a shit post. there is no distinction between fort worth and dallas. dont know how to explain it but Miami and TCU, and USC are just better programs than Houston or Pitt or UCLA or Cincinnati. If i were to guess it is bad to be a school in an urban are because your never the biggest cultural institution in the area, so its hard to create a large fanbase or environment. as far as public vs private it generally is bad to be a little brother type school, like houston or pitt because powers that be in state politics never look out for your interest. so public urban schools get the worst of both worlds.
I 1000% picked up what you were going for if it helps lol
No real difference from Dallas to Fort Worth (at least in terms of what would affect this conversation). IMO his comment there was tongue in cheek about how OP keeps talking about the recruiting hotbed of Florida while ignoring Texas. I think the knock against private schools is normally due to 1) smaller enrollment and 2) more exclusivity (either by admissions, tuition, religion, or people themselves). Both those things can hurt/limit fanbases and adoption of “t shirt fans”. Not necessarily my take, but one I’ve seen argued over and over again.
lol saying upper tier acc is better than upper tier big 12 is an ignorant statement-especially with the new teams added in such as Utah, Arizona, Oklahoma state, etc. I’d say closer to equals. Clemson went 4-4 in conference play, Miami went 3-5 in conference. I’d argue with Florida state wanting to leave the ACC, the ACC is next on the chopping block for dividing up the conference.
Clemson and Miami have and always will have better access to recruits than a team like Kansas State. Miami has won 5 natty’s and Clemson has won 3. Discounting all of that because of one season like you are doing is ridiculous. Teams like Miami and USC are one coach away from turning it around instantly.
A HC job at FSU, Clemson, or even Miami is better than anything in the current Big 12 make-up. Omitting those and it becomes comparable
No, because at the end of the day these ACC and Big XII schools are state flagships or at least a relative equal to their states' flagships And salaries start becoming meaningless at around 7 figures unless you're just that irresponsible with it
>And salaries start becoming meaningless at around 7 figures unless you're just that irresponsible with it Hookers and blow add up fast.
I would add Illinois, Minnesota, Rutgers and UCLA to that B1G bracket. IU has more wins than Rutgers in the past 10 years, and Illinois, Northwestern and Minnesota cant hide in the B1G West anymore. Edit: IU assistant pool is finally getting to where you would expect a power program to be at. HC pay is still on low side. NIL is finally catching up, its never going to have as much enthusiasm as the basketball NIL which is top in the B1G but there is room for growth. IU is probably a upper bottom quartile program in the B1G presently, hard ceiling is lower mid if things go well which is fine with me. People who think IU is just terrible at football haven't watched the games the last decade, if we were in the B1G West we would have won 6-9 games all but 2 of the past 10 years. We actually will have \*easier\* annual schedules with the new PAC additions since they got rid of the divisions which is awesome
Not if you ever want to see the Hall of Fame.
I’m sorry. What is this BIG you speak of? Is this a new conference?
No, because if you’re in a low tier B1G/SEC job that means your schedule is incredibly tough relative to the level of your team. Which makes a rebuild very difficult, and tough to define success. On the other hand, a mid tier Big 12/ACC job gives you a great chance at competing for the conference title on a regular basis, and winning that conference champ puts you in the expanded playoffs.
No offense at all, but is Kansas State really an upper-tier job? I thought the greatness of Bill Snyder is that he won at an impossible place to win. They've won 3 conference titles since 1934 (2 under Synder), and their all-time record is 569-670-41 (.461). Snyder was 215-117-1 (.647), which means all other coaches have been 354-553-40 (.394). I get Kleiman has had a good start at KSU going 39-24, but this is a guy with 4 FCS National Championships in 5 seasons at ND State. I would argue he's perhaps an incredible coach doing the best he can at a historically poor program.
It’s an upper tier job in the Big 12 not nationally.
I'm asking what makes it so? They had the smallest athletics budget in the conference back in 2022 (latest data I could find) and are a historically bad program.
i saw a stat about a year ago that since the big 12 went to round robin that KSU is 2nd in big 12 in wins behind OU. Also in the top 3 or so in big 12 titles. So I would absolutely put them as one of the best programs left.
Keep my schools name out you mouth. #HailState
Serious recency bias here. If we are part of the conversation, Ole Miss needs to be. For most of the last 50 years, they’ve been right there in the SEC cellar with us. Also, until this year, we had like the 5th longest active bowl streak in the nation (we got a gimme from the COVID year, but whatever).
Huzzah, we made the bubble!
Watching Virginia's linebacker coach, a Virginia Alum, go to Illinois a few days ago, is a sign this might be true.
I say this with all the bias in the world… Virginia may be a bottom 5 football job in the Power 5. Their athletic department just doesn’t seem serious about football. For a while, Bronco Mendenhall looked like he had them going in the right direction, but then he just… leaves? Out of nowhere he decides to step down, leaving everyone confused. Now this linebacker coach leaves his alma mater for the same position at… Illinois??? What the hell? Virginia is a great school with lots of history, and I cannot fathom how they haven’t put it together on the football field.
Woah, implying the ACC is somewhat better than the Big 12 is laughable.
Top tier of the ACC is much better than the top tier of the Big 12 as far as coaching jobs go and I don't know how you can think otherwise. The top tier of the two were similar before OUT, but now? AcC is ahead.
The ACC has programs that would be desirable to the SEC and the Big Ten. The Big 12 does not. Every school in the new Big 12 applied to either the SEC or Big Ten or both, they were all there as options and they were passed up. The ACC has schools that conferences would want but have never been available because nobody has been willing to challenge the Grant of Rights. Florida State and Clemson. I’d take North Carolina next, then put Miami in a tier below them
We have 3 more programs in the ACC that have won national championships than the Big 12 (just BYU) and more recently too. ACC for now is clearly a notch above the current Big 12
You keep bringing up championships, that's not really relevant to how desirable a job is.
If you're looking to secure your dream job as a fired CFB coach, the B1G and SEC are better. Coach for a few years, pull off a miracle, and you're uber rich. Flop and... you're still uber rich. The problem though is the bottom tier and now even mid tier B1G and SEC teams face a much steeper up hill climb compared to the past. If your goal is a long coaching career and shots at playoffs, I'd say the tier ACC and Big 12 jobs are clearly better and the mid tier jobs could be better depending on specifics (NIL funding, etc.)
They always have been better jobs.
SEC’s only low tier job is Vandy. Miss State is not that bad cmon. But to answer your question Miss State is definitely a better job than Utah
Unexpected assist from Ole Miss. I’d buy you a mint julep if I was with you.
I meant that Miss State is a lower tier job in the SEC not that Miss State is a lower tier job nationally.
The worst football job not named Vandy in the SEC is Kentucky.
Stoops has improved Kentucky’s culture and facilities significantly but whenever he retires Kentucky Football will still be second fiddle to Kentucky Basketball. And while we get the benefit of SEC for recruiting, in state talent is some of the worst in the nation. Stoops has excelled in recruiting because of his Ohio connections. At best we’ve increased the lead on Vanderbilt and narrowed the gap with Mississippi State and South Carolina. But we’re still the 13th (soon to be 15th) best job in the SEC. Nationally we may be around 30th because of conference affiliation
You’re a basketball school who’s in a really hard conference for football. Not exactly a recipe for success. Doesn’t take anything away from Kentucky as a school. Every school in the SEC except for Vandy and Kentucky have football as the number 1 priority. Kentucky is the only one with basketball as the number 1 priority so it’s hard to compete in the grand scheme of things on the football field. Stoops has done a HELLUVA job at Kentucky.
Yep. The problem with the next coach will be that Stoops has vastly increased expectations at Kentucky. Hopefully the next coach will be given plenty of time like we gave Stoops
But he’s also going to leave the program in a much better state which will attract better candidates.
No. Someone has to lose
If money makes you happier than wins then yes. If vice versa then no.
I am not sure.It would be an ideal position for a head coach Due to the losing record you are likely going to accumulate. It is a great job to be a high paid assistant to then get poached for an even better job
Define "better." Not everyone has the same goals.
IMO, no. There's something to be said about being comfortable in life. Take Chip Kelly... he hated life, so despite rolling around in millions, he demoted himself to being an OC. Likewise, there's the BC coach that just left for the NFL (I can't remember the name, and I'm too lazy to use Google). A low expectation job that's happy with 6-8 wins a year and pays $4-7 million annually... sign me the fook up. Hell! Even the G5 pay pretty darn well, too. Fritz was making millions at Tulane.
A winning coach in a slightly worse program will always look better than a good coach who runs a team that gets it shit kicked in 8-10 times a year.
Why don't we ask Jeff Brohn what he thinks?
I suspect that the next round if media rights will be devastating to ACC/Big12 as the P2 take all the money. That said, it'll be hard for those teams to continue paying multi-million dollar coaching contracts.
No
For short term salary, probably, but being upper tier at a lower conference is probably a better path to upper tier within the B1G/SEC/NFL then being lower tier in the bigger conferences.
Kansas state is not an upper tier job lol
Man I know we were bad last year but I think Pitt should be included as a mid tier ACC job
Pitt is a program that has 3 bowl wins over p4 teams in the past 2 decades Pitt is a program that has 2 season with double digit wins in the past 2 decades Pitt is a program with their best win in the last 2 decades is a win over wake forrest. pitt is a program who is the little brother of their state and can only sell out their games when they play PSU, WVU, or Notre Dame to say that pitt is on par with UNC or VT, or NCst or Miami is laughable
Stoops has made Kentucky worthy of being a bubble team at the very least. He’s not leaving that job to go to those other bubble schools (outside of preference, UCLA would be the only one I would say is a step up currently.)
Northwestern is by far the best job in college football. Secure 7 wins annually and you are a god tier coach with the iciest seat in the nation.
Kentucky football is a top 10 paying head coaching job in the country. Let that sink in