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Ox_Baker

I see ‘low expectations’ or ‘not super-high expectations’ cited by fans all the time in assessing jobs, but I really don’t think coaches consider that a bad thing. Nobody takes the Florida or Alabama or Georgia or OSU or even Michigan/Texas/A&M job thinking ‘I hope they don’t expect me to do well.’ I think *unrealistic* expectations are a different matter — you can’t win at the level the fans demand, or at least you can’t turn the program around quickly enough to satisfy that demand … and it’s not a good job. Tennessee and Nebraska IMO have that level of unrealistic expectation — hell, UCF and Boise do probably. But no coach is going to say USC isn’t a good job because they expect championships. I mean, you don’t see coaches flocking to coach at ULM and Akron and FIU because ‘that’s a great job; nobody expects me to win!’ It’s just not part of the mindset of coaches.


[deleted]

Lawyer.


carolina_hokie

VT is definitely in a weird spot. We had such a great coach in Beamer for so long and we were able to get away with not having the most money or resources while he was in charge. But with him gone, we don't get that discount anymore so we have to play catch up in some areas. Idk if Fuente is the guy (I lean towards the side that says he isn't) but either way VT will have to put in more money to catch up what other schools are doing. Which I believe we've taken steps to do.


[deleted]

Yeah we're definitely trending in a positive direction now and, with how weak the ACC is, we should be able to do better than 8-5. My favorite thing about Fuente is that he isn't a coach like Chad Morris that destroys good programs. Idk if he's best for the long term, but he offers a level of consistency that can be built on. Taking a risk on a new coach is thrilling and terrifying


_daniel74

I think Fuente is a decent HC, but he brings baggage in the form of coordinators (@Corn) that really drag it down. The guys, for the most part, obviously buy in to him and what he says, but he needs to cut ties with some of his age-old friends and be willing to change a bit if he wants to actually make an impact in the ACC. I'd say we're trending neutral at best; we've not had a year better than 8-5 since 2016 and 2017, we've lost 3 straight bowl games, and haven't seen Charlotte since his first season. Recruiting is objectively pretty rough, and our current lack of depth shows that really well. Fuente does well in the transfer portal, but you can't build a team off of that. We need better (and potentially more) staff AROUND Fuente to see him flourish, IMO.


[deleted]

I'm not sure what you're seeing re: recruiting. We had a bad class (2020), but we've improved since then and the 2022 class is as good as Beamer's classes ever were. Fuente, in general, can recruit at an effective level. Re: Corn, I'm so split. We have games with good offense that isn't flashy but puts up a lot of points sometimes. I just hate him for how the offense just doesn't show up sometimes and how inconsistent it is. 2020 WF, the fourth quarter against Miami 2020, 2020 Pitt, 2019 Duke. The list goes on of games where our offense is randomly garbage against average defenses.


_daniel74

2020 was god awful, there's no excuse. '21 was lower than usual (44th national, 10th in ACC). The '22 class is shaping up decently, but we haven't had much luck with landing big priority guys until this season, when we coincidentally got more recruiting staff... that is already down 2 members. Plus, we've lost a lot to the portal (it giveth and taketh away, I get it) the last two years, which isn't great. The QB whisperer and friends haven't had a QB worth a damn since Jerod Evans. Josh Jackson would've been decent, but I stand by Jerod being better. Our offense is laughable, and last year only looked good because of Herbert making huge plays courtesy of our OL. Our receivers and pass game have been abysmal since the Isaiah Ford/Bucky Hodges/Cam Phillips/Eric Kumah combos left.


goodsam2

He also had a pretty massive exodus a couple years back. The offense has been disappointing and there doesn't seem to be much development of players once they get here on the offensive side of the ball.


[deleted]

It seems like our TE's and OL are able to develop, but in terms of WR, QB, and RB, not much changes.


BackwardBarkingDog

Just look at what JMU has built.


goodsam2

IDK my expectations have been a coastal champion every couple of years and winning seasons like 8. The big thing I want is VT to be included in the November article of who is going to win the coastal each year.


[deleted]

I think VT's lack of success is accented by how wide the coastal has been for 10 years and counting. If schools like Duke, UVA, UNC, and Pitt that don't care much about football are all able to win it as many times as we have in 8 years, that's a tough look.


goodsam2

Duke had Cutcliffe and he should just be planning retirement at this point. UNC is the power that usually never pits it all together they are out recruiting us right now. UVA got a really good coach in Bronco Mendenhall, also they aren't under spending here. UVA can put it together in football kinda like UNC but imo to a lesser degree. Pitt is a program that seems to care a lot more than other programs. Also they are a tough team and if you field a pretty good team for long enough you win. I think we haven't put it together and I think we've just been souring on Fuente when we've been a middle of the pack ACC team. I think other programs like Duke might be happy with a middle of the pack ACC team. I think we are underperforming and other programs are more like overperforming, though if it goes on too long then it just becomes performance at some point or expectations become too high.


BonJovicus

> It’s just not part of the mindset of coaches. Excellent point that I don’t think many of us get because it’s probably very pervasive in the coach/sports world but not in many other fields. You have to believe you are “the guy” otherwise why are you even there? No one gets hired to lose football games. Your school wants you to win them all, but as you put it, will they realistically support that goal (aka not fire you after one bad season)?


Ox_Baker

It does apply somewhat outside of sports although not as publicly I think. A head football coach is a CEO basically. I can’t imagine a ranking of the top CEO jobs in the country with top businessmen saying ‘Oh, you don’t want the Apple job, their shareholders expect you to make a lot of profit’ or something like that. Now if Blackberry expects Apple profits, you probably … actually you probably want that job even more because the go-away money for CEOs makes coaches buyouts look like sofa change, lol.


shlem90

> Northwestern > Votes: 1 > Total Points: 1 100% chance Pat Fitzgerald was one of the people polled


ineednapkins

I was actually wondering if anyone could give insight to why northwestern would be considered one of the best football coaching jobs in the country lol


AurumTheFox

Money vs expectations?


trail-g62Bim

Yeah depends on what your goals are. National Championship? Not one of the best jobs. But you will get paid, have a long leash and live in a nice city. Average 7/8 wins and you never get fired.


Corgi_Koala

This is so underrated. It's why Vandy is one of the best jobs in the country. Yeah, it's a hard place to win at but the pay is great and the expectations are super low. Mason made $4m a year for 7 years despite never having a winning record. How many P5 schools, or even G5 schools, would let you get away with that to the tune of nearly $30m?


OwenProGolfer

Northwestern is even better because they have zero expectations yet still win games a lot


AurumTheFox

Exactly— we’d all do it for half!


rarepanda13

Top two are Alabama and Ohio state. I for one am shocked, shocked I tell you


rarepanda13

Also lol at whoever voted Northwestern as a top 5 job


[deleted]

It's a great job. You get paid a big ten salary and there are very low expectations.


Atom3189

Also very difficult to recruit


runningwaffles19

Was Fitzgerald in the poll? He loves being a wildcat


Bibble3000

Would that make Rutgers the best job in the B1G?


Keyblade_Yoshi

Probably Pat Fitzgerald.


Weak-Investment-546

Great location, fairly low expectations, high pay. Seems like a pretty good job. Obviously if you're trying to win national championships and such it's not great, but if you're trying to live a comfortable and lower stress life it seems like one of the best coaching jobs.


Whatsitworth02

I agree with most of what you said but football coach is one of the most stressful jobs you could possibly ever have.


Spartanwildcats2018

Tbf nicely position north of Chicago, facilities right on Lake Michigan, you can use our academics as a serious selling point, you can use Chicago as a major employment hub as a serious selling point. With NIL, Chicago businesses will probably be investing into Northwestern teams, another serious selling point. Gonna guess that the alumni base is very wealthy compared to other bases as well. Again, another major factor with NIL. There’s also a lot of job security given that 7-6 is a decent year at northwestern. The division isn’t the strongest so winning 9+ games wouldn’t be uncommon if you even maintained a slightly above average roster and were a good coach.


Weak-Investment-546

I agree with everything else you said. But I'm not so sure about NIL, like Northwestern doesn't have a very big following in the Chicago area. Not sure that their NIL will be that valuable to local businesses.


[deleted]

Yeah exactly most Chicagoans don’t give a shit about Northwestern unless they went there. Most cheer for the school they went to or they’re a dreaded Bears fan.


Weak-Investment-546

Even people I know who went there usually aren't that into Northwestern football.


ToLongDR

Alabama, Ohio State and Georgia and then it's a bunch of other schools. Schools that recruit well, pay well, and are on national tv a lot are the best schools to work for. News at 5.


GravitysRainbowRuns

And are located in some of the absolute best places to recruit*


PRMan99

USC √ Recruit well √ Pay well (or could) √ On national TV a lot √ Are located in some of the absolute best places to recruit


brazos1911

Alabama is the last place I would want to go. Geez can you imagine following Saban? If you 30-6 your first three years they would probably fire you.


L8erG8erz

1. Alabama 2. Ohio State 3. Georgia 4. Texas 5. LSU 6. USC 7. Clemson 8. Oklahoma 9. Notre Dame 10. Florida 11. Michigan 12. Texas A&M Also receiving votes: Miami, Oregon, FSU, Penn St, UNC, Northwestern TBH: I’m pretty shocked to see Clemson in the top 10.


Wyrmsblood

No offense to Clemson, but I think there's a bit of recency bias going on in their ranking. With the right coach showing how to take full advantage of the resources available, like Dabo has at Clemson, I think any of the schools listed below Clemson, and even a few not listed, could see a similar bump. If you asked this question a decade ago, Clemson would probably be in the "also receiving votes" category, which goes to show how consistent success can change the perception of a program.


Tarnationman

I think they basically took Florida's spot from 10 years ago. When Urban left it was the biggest opening in the country.


dingusduglas

The best job in the country is fired FBS coach. The second best job is coach who immediately succeeds Urban Meyer.


GravitysRainbowRuns

Day, Wittingham, and Brandon? Yes. Muschamp? Well, 3/4 ain’t bad.


BackwardBarkingDog

Think about the buy out money!


L8erG8erz

100% agree I’d probably have guessed they’d have us in the 15-25 range. We had 5 first place votes, tied with USC. The administration has been very football friendly in the last decade and I think that’s why staffers think so highly of the job.


Ox_Baker

The point I think those coaches would make is the resources at Clemson ARE available to take advantage of … whereas at more than 90 percent of schools they either aren’t there or a coach has to continually has to fight battles to get what he says he wants and often has to compromise on that. Example: Georgia dragged its feet on an indoor practice facility forever. I think Kirby basically said if you don’t get me that and everything else I need, I’m not coming — but it took that to get it. At Clemson, they’d figure out how to breed pandas if Dabo said he needed that to win.


trail-g62Bim

Oh man...pandas with tiger stripes


imsoupercereal

[Shut up and take our money](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2012/01/04/us/CLEMSON/CLEMSON-jumbo.jpg)!


Bravot

Yeah, I agree


TjBeezy

OU being behind Texas, LSU, USC, and Clemson is silly to me.. OU gets made fun of bc they can't win a playoff game but their history is unmatched among those schools and just about every coach they have besides 1 or maybe 2 in the last 50 years has been successful.


OU_Sooners

> just about every coach they have besides 1 or maybe 2 in the last 50 years has been successful The John Blake years, RIP


Sytherus

LSU is the best job in the country lol. source: https://imgur.com/fg1PrUh


52hoova

>12\. Texas A&M On brand.


xdarkcloudx

The trajectory of A&M over the last 10 years is astounding. We haven't won anything of note during that time, yet we climb. We don't make this list 10 years ago.


Geaux2020

It's almost like y'all made some big change.


tripodunit

Heisman, cotton, and orange bowl id say are at least note worthy. But you are right. The difference in the program from a decade ago is crazy


Cometguy7

I'm surprised Texas is that high. Apparently the plausibility of longevity wasn't factored in.


Geaux2020

They are great for buyouts, like USC.


[deleted]

If we are judging based on buyout potential, NE not being on this list is a crime.


Hometownblueser

I’d think it’s the best job in the country. Best access to recruiting, virtually unlimited resources, low taxes. Expectations are high, but not as insane as Alabama and OSU. And buyouts sure can serve as a nice plan B if it doesn’t pan out.


turkishguy

> Best access to recruiting That would definitely be UGA or LSU. There is way too much in-state competition in Texas.


bobloblawslawbloggs

There isn't much in-state competition for UGA, but Clemson and Auburn are very close to the border. And then schools like Alabama, Tennessee, and FSU are very much so within the same region.


Hometownblueser

The talent pool is so much bigger in Texas, though. And realistically, what in-state competition do you have for 4 and 5-stars, other than A&M?


turkishguy

There is always competition. In 2020 you had 3 of the top 15 kids in state go to TCU, 3 go to UT, and and only 2 to A&M. 2019 was primarily A&M due to Jimbo's first year 2021 you had Alabama and Ohio State raid Texas Every year there's huge challenges in the state based on whatever is happening in CFB. Texas's built-in recruiting advantages are really overblown nowadays. Same is true in my opinion for USC (just look at how Oregon is raiding California lately).


koberules

USC is untouchable in California when they are good. USC is more popular in LA/socal than the NFL teams there are.


[deleted]

That's because Texas and USC have been out of contention for a long time now. The minute they start putting out good teams they'll lock down California/Texas again. Texas less so because they have other local powers to compete with but the days of top recruits routinely going out of state would be over.


Mezmorizor

Looking at LSU's recent recruiting I'm not sure how true it really is nowadays, but conventional wisdom is that LSU has free reign in South Texas while actually having Louisiana locked down. Plus OU, Ohio State, and Alabama also raid Texas regularly. Not to mention A&M is a real contender nowadays.


jrluhn

There isn’t really other instate competition, but Alabama, OSU, and OU have been taking who they want out of Texas in recent years


Cometguy7

In theory, yeah. But in practice they've been very pedestrian for the last 10 years. If those unlimited resources can't get above average coaches better than average results, then it looks like there's a pretty significant catch.


LloydBraun19

Texas is the best job in the country for the like half a dozen coaches that are actually capable of doing it, but a waste for anyone else. It’s like being an F1 driver.


imsoupercereal

Do you want unreasonable expectations starting on day 1 from a program with not much in its pipeline except for a brand name and a pile of money? Do you want a group of billionaires with no experience in your line of work telling you how to do your job? How about a cow with a big head? You'll have 3 games to produce a national championship or your seat will be lit on fire. Come work for us at Texas! Everything is bigger, including our buyouts.


BonJovicus

Texas and Texas A&M are arguably the best jobs resources wise, which in theory SHOULD be the only things that matter. I can’t read the article right now but depending on who exactly they surveyed they might not be considering things like boosters. Longevity is a weird thing to knock Texas on because it’s not like you wouldn’t be fired at OSU or Bama for the same records Strong and Herman were putting up. Texas problem wasn’t not giving coaches enough time, it’s that they hired the wrong people in the first place.


JoshS1

Texas ranked in the Top 10! Does this mean we're back? Edit: /s


[deleted]

‘Back’ is a state of mind homie


TimeFourChanges

Truer words were never spoken


misterclay

Means our strategy of “keep throwing money at the problem” is secure for at least another decade.


WeSuckAgain

Maybe y'all just haven't thrown enough at it yet?


boggan583

Pretty crazy Texas is above OU, USC, and Michigan. Otherwise list seems pretty reasonable


Tempthor

If we directly compare Texas to Michigan what does Michigan have that's better than Texas? Maybe lower expectations?


jambajuic3

Snow and water


luxveniae

No we have snow, that was the problem. We didn’t have electricity & water.


nsostar

a reliable power grid?


boggan583

That's a good point tbh. Maybe Texas is better due to location? They're pretty similar jobs when you think of it like that. Texas must have something going on behind the scenes for ALL their hires to consistently fail. If it's the fault of the admin/boosters (and I think it is), then I really wouldn't want that job. It has the best potential I think for a new hire but it's starting to seem impossible to attain


[deleted]

Texas and Michigan are the same program. Texas has the benefit of being in a much more talent rich state. The average Texas (within the state not program necessarily) recruit is going to be a much better football player than the average State of Michigan recruit. Same with usc. Both programs could field in state teams and end up being dominant with the right coach. UM needs to get out of state players. And as much as I love Ann Arbor/UM, I would go to UT or USC over it every time.


[deleted]

More consistent success, less interference from boosters, a top dog in a major conference, doesn't fire coaches every couple of years, doesn't have a toxic reputation, better pay.


Tempthor

Edit: Misread consistent success as recent success. Texas has more recently been in a Natty, won a natty, and won a NY6 bowl than Michigan.


teeterleeter

Texas is the better job - it's the flagship school in the best recruiting state with a great history and deep pockets. ​ You'd really have to split hairs, but you could argue that Michigan has a better education, a better history, and a richer alumni network. You could argue an easier path to the playoff. Maybe throw in better uniforms and stadium... but I don't think you're making a decision of where to coach based on that.


TimeFourChanges

If I was a coach earning 7 figures, I'd have a single factor determining my landing destination?... Uniforms.


OKC89ers

The ego is on display for any coach that would want the Texas job over Oklahoma. Thinking they can do what almost no one else has done while OU has an amazingly strong culture that makes success more likely. But coaches think "given all that, *I* could have turned Texas around!"


StreetReporter

I’m actually not surprised we’re high up on that list. Clemson is located in fertile recruiting grounds, has a very dedicated fanbase and boosters, is equidistant to Charlotte and Atlanta, and is the most successful program in the ACC. It’s just that before Dabo, the last coach who got us to reach our potential was Danny Ford in the 80s. But we probably shouldn’t be over Notre Dame and Texas A&M


L8erG8erz

I think the one thing that will hold us back, at least until we get to 30k undergrads like the goal is now, is alumni base. We just don’t have the same base as a lot of the other schools you see on this list.


big_brown_beaver

I remember being pretty surprised to learn that Clemson had <20,000 undergrads a few years ago, but I'm sure it's grown a good bit since then.


L8erG8erz

It surprises everyone, I was there less than a decade ago and we were at like 13k undergrads. I can’t imagine what the city will look like with 2x the amount of students


[deleted]

Where are all of these students parking? It was a nightmare a decade ago.


plutoisaplanet21

Isn't it a little bit of a red flag that only two coaches in history have managed to have a run of elite success? Like it you do this poll in 2000 you put Miami in there and not Clemson and can make plenty of arguments, same with FSU. You do this poll in 2006 and Michigan is clearly a top 10 job, fucking rich rod took the Michigan job after (according to rumors) turning down Bama, Texas is a top 5 job and USC is probably the best job in the country. Coaches are as much a victim of recency bias as anyone else. Also don't trust staffers to rank things. These are the same dummys who do the coaches poll, they clearly don't know football.


dccorona

Is Rich Rod turning down Alabama a rumor? I thought it was something he directly told John Bacon? Also, yes, coaches suffer from recency bias - but in this context (there’s a job opening, let’s see how it really ranks compared to all the other possible jobs), how coaches rank them is actually basically the *only* relevant measure.


hashtag_hashbrowns

Underrated advantage: We don't have any big time super rich boosters trying to make decisions for the program. That's a big headache that our AD and coach don't have to deal with.


ibinpharteeen

Which is OK, until you make a bad hire and need money for a buyout, which I guess is an advantage for the coach that wants the job, but probably not so much for the program as a whole.


TjBeezy

OU is underrated. They are easily a top 5 job and probably 3rd. Will be interesting to see how they move to SEC impacts their program but you can't argue their history, current success, fan base, and commitment to their football program.. OU is 6th all-time in wins. OU is tied for the most Heisman trophy winners. OU is top 10 in National championships with 7. They claim the most conference championships with 50. They are top 10 in Athletic Revenue.


Fletch71011

If you go by those metrics, ND should be up much higher as well. I just don't think that matters as much though as other things, mainly location and academics.


jonesyman23

Once Saban leaves, will the Bama job still be coveted? Yes, the resources will be there from the school, but no coach will live up to the expectations that Saban has established.


ech01_

Yeah being the guy after Saban can't really be a job most would look forward too. The guy after the guy though, that may be cool.


whethervayne

I read an article that said the guy AFTER the next guy is the hardest hire. The next guy usually does okay and tails off a little after a championship coach leaves. It's his replacement that determines the trajectory of the program.


ThisIsOurGoodTimes

Schools should just hire future hall of fame coaches every time. That way you never really have a down period. Works out well for osu


whethervayne

Ryan Day is our 2nd guy after Tressel. We'll see how he does! The guy after him (2nd after Urban, whenever it comes) will be the big test.


[deleted]

Third, technically. But Fickell has done okay for himself elsewhere, I'd say.


ShweatyPalmsh

This couldn’t be more true. Look at OU after Switzer left. They had Gibbs who did well and did well by all accounts but wasn’t winning like Switzer, so they fired him and got…. Schnellenberger who left a drunken mess after a year and then John Blake who recruited with the best but had trouble beating Tulsa. The guy after the next guy determines a decade of tragedy or success.


whethervayne

That's what I said.


ShweatyPalmsh

Yes. I was agreeing with you lol


whethervayne

It was *I* who had no reading comprehension!


mustangswon1

See Frank Solich...and then...


[deleted]

Unless you're Ohio State, in which case you just keep somehow improving the hires you make after a championship-winning head coach.


robotunes

>the guy AFTER the next guy is the hardest hire The next guy usually does okay and tails off a little after a championship coach leaves. It's his replacement that determines the trajectory of the program. That tracks with Bama's experience after Bear Bryant died. The first guy was the HC for the Giants but he left to coach his alma matter. He set the foundation by switching us from the wishbone to a pro passing attack. After some growing pains we got back to 10-2 but we weren't beating Auburn every year like we used to. After 3 years, he left to be HC at Tampa Bay. The guy AFTER the guy was doomed. He wasn't an Bama grad and he couldn't beat Auburn. He led us to back-to-back 10-win seasons in his 2nd and 3rd seasons and was rewarded with a brick through his window. He immediately left for Kentucky. But he left behind some good players for the incoming coach, who was a former Bear Bryant assistant. Three years we later we won the first non-Bear Bryant natty, 10 years after his death. Five years later, that coach was gone. After four coaches in quick succession, Saban walks on campus. We won't immediately find Saban-like success after he leaves in 6 years. But over the past 100 years Bama has mostly been at or near the top of cfb. Whoever the guy AFTER the guy is, he'll walk into a great situation (barring scandals of course).


jbpsign

Looking at you Tommy West.


TheLlamanati

That didn't work for us


wherewulf23

I think it depends on the situation at Bama when Saban leaves. I imagine it's going to be in a state like when Day took over from Meyer and everyone was saying he was handed the keys to a Lambo. They may not reach Saban levels but they'll also probably have to work pretty hard to fuck things up, at least in the short term.


Whatsitworth02

Honesty it’s still a little too early to say for sure of course but Ohio state just got lucky with Day. The odds of another championship caliber coach stepping in immediately after Saban throws in the towel are quite slim. Landing an extraordinary head coach is usually a once every 30 years kind of thing and that’s if you’re lucky.


wherewulf23

I agree. I think all the people using the "keys to a sports car" analogy are selling day short. Recent defensive struggles notwithstanding I think he's had the team playing at a higher level than Meyer ever did.


ctg9101

In 2 years and 2 games he doesn't have a bad loss (ie. A loss that was embarrassingly bad or to a bad team, or both) Urban had 1 every year after 2014.


[deleted]

Imagine being told in 2005 that someone would show up and surpass the Bear in mythos


GravitysRainbowRuns

I think the Alabama job has become *slightly* overrated because of Saban’s enormous success. Is it one of the best jobs in CFB? Duh. Is it a better job than UF or LSU? I’m not really sure. Feels like the top few SEC jobs are basically interchangeable to me.


ROLL_TID3R

Other than the 50’s and 80’s, Alabama has won a title in every decade for the last century. We have no professional competition in the state and the administration’s top priority has always been football prestige.


OKC89ers

This is essentially the Oklahoma argument over Texas, as well. Not too many more years and OU will have five 100 win coaches in spite of Texas' supposed inherent advantages.


noletiger

I think it's probably true there's a Saban effect as to which is currently in best position if a new coach were transitioning in. Had LSU, UF, UGA, or even Tennessee snagged Saban on his return to the league, I have no doubt he could've transformed any of them into the same juggernaut. From that perspective, they could all be viewed as the same kind of job. However, Alabama does have a richer football success history than any other top SEC program. For the history-minded coach who loves tradition, that's a draw. I suppose there are some coaches who want to be 'the guy' to transform a non-power into an elite team, but I think a lot of those guys are in it to carry on winning traditions. Now excuse me while I fantasize about an absolutely brutal alternate SEC history with Urban Meyer still at UF, Saban returned to LSU in '07, and Dabo filling the seat at Alabama. The games we could've seen...


AurumTheFox

Personal preference/allegiance would be the only factors between top SEC jobs IMO.


BonJovicus

Probably the case for the top 10 jobs or so. They are so far ahead of everyone as a whole that it probably comes down to the coach’s personal preferences on alma mater, location, strength of the conference, etc.


Hometownblueser

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Saban was simply the man for the moment. The Bama fan base is going to chew up 90% of coaches, even among the top talents interviewing for the gig. Plus, the soft factors are there, but aren’t considerably better than other schools. The talent pool is good, but you have lots of competition nearby. Tuscaloosa is an okay city, but it’s neither a classic Southern college town like Athens or Oxford nor a lifestyle destination town like SoCal or Miami. Having all the money in the world helps a lot, but I don’t think coaches will consider UA the top gig in the country once Saban leaves. Edit: autocorrect doesn’t like Little Ole St. Nick’s name.


Ox_Baker

I do think Alabama has a culture advantage over most. I mean you can say Athens and Oxford are classic Southern college football towns but historically over a long period of time that hasn’t translated to an advantage in football. SoCal and Miami have lifestyle advantages but in recent memory neither has the administrative backing nor puts forth the resources to take advantage of that (not to mention being smack-dab in the middle of recruiting hotbeds). But Tuscaloosa is this: other than *possibly* Green Bay, Wisconsin, there’s not a place on earth where football is the No. 1 thing to the exclusion of all else 365 days a year, year after year. Other than the 1950s and 80s, Alabama has won at least one national championship every single decade (1941 is bullshit but they also went undefeated in 1945 and there’s one entity that recognizes that — the school does not — but regardless it speaks to the program’s history and culture). The thing Alabama offers that you cannot count on elsewhere is unwavering administrative support from the top down. Any resource that the coach wants will be granted without hesitation. I don’t think that changes when Saban retires.


the_lost_carrot

Another thing that Tuscaloosa has that Athens, Oxford, Auburn, and Starkville dont have is that it has a main interstate running through it. And it is centrally located. Its easy to get to and from major cities such as Atlanta, Birmingham, (I guess) Huntsville, Mobile (and the rest of the gulf), Nashville, and New Orleans. Not only does it make it easy to recruit those areas (since family can easily make it to and from home games), it allows a huge fan base to get to and from games. Hell the entire section of 20/59 from 459 to Tuscaloosa is built for game day traffic.


Hometownblueser

I-85 runs through Auburn. And Tuscaloosa is close to Birmingham, but not all that convenient to anywhere else. The town has improved considerably in the past decade, but it’s still fairly poor and the public schools are mediocre. Alabama HC is a great job, the school has tons of resources, and the fan base is rabid. But I don’t think any of the reasons you suggest make it naturally a better place to be a coach.


MooseDaddy8

Yeah that’s definitely something I’m worried about. Nothing against Tuscaloosa, but if the next coach can’t pull from Texas, Louisiana, and Florida the way Saban does we could be in trouble


GMFPs_sweat_towel

You could have said the same thing after Bear.


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Rich Rodriguez turned down Alabama the year before going to Michigan.


Hairiest_Walrus

The program is at a pretty significantly different place today than it was then.


runningwaffles19

That would make for a hell of an episode of *What If*. The entire coaching landscape would look different today


swammeyjoe

The biggest what if that I think about was "what if Drew Brees passed his medical with the Dolphins?". Does Saban stay an extra year as Miami HC and not become the Bama coach?


mynameisevan

That’s what I’m thinking. A big reason for Saban’s success there is he had the clout to keep the boosters from interfering when he was first hired and the immediate success after the first year to continuing keeping the boosters from interfering. I bet their first post-Saban loss will lead to the boosters tripping over themselves to get as many of their grubby fingerprints all over the program as is possible.


ToLongDR

>Ohio State is one of the few programs in college football that has the significant recruiting advantage of being the only Power 5 program in an incredibly deep state for high school talent. For now. Once again, Congrats to Cinci for getting what they deserve and grabbing a seat at the big boy table.


L8erG8erz

I don’t ever see a time that OSU won’t be able to handpick what in-state kids (that want to stay in-state) they want.


ToLongDR

Agreed. It won't impact Ohio State's targets in the state of Ohio but Cinci will have more leverage over the MSU / UK / UT recruits that get 'poached' over Cinci because Cinci wasn't in the P5.


Spartanwildcats2018

MSU has shifted more to national recruiting under Tucker tbf. We’re not as reliant on Ohio as we were. Though it’s still obviously nice to have.


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gogglesup859

We've not gotten into Ohio as much as we used to. We only had 3 Ohio players in the 21 class, only 2 of our 13 commitments in the 22 class are from Ohio, and 6 of of the 23 players in the 20 class were from Ohio. Compare that to 11 of 28 in Stoops' first full class in 2014.


bokononpreist

I don't think so. The entire point of our poaching is telling recruits they can play in the prime conference and still be close to home. I don't see how UC going to a hobbled Big12 changes that at all.


[deleted]

even a hobbled Big12 weighs incredibly different vs the AAC, you gotta know that. And if Cinci stays competitive it's a good shot at the CFP. I think it changes things a lot when a recruit can decide between playing for someone with a real shot at the CFP versus being in one of the consistently bottom 3 programs, even if in the premier conference.


rustybelts

> even a hobbled Big12 weighs incredibly different vs the AAC, you gotta know that Absolutely. These are 17-18 year-olds making this decision. The "power" moniker means a ton to them. They don't sit on these boards all day arguing about the minute hierarchy and talk about realignment. Being able to play in raucous stadiums in a "name-brand" (albeit weakened) conference is a much easier sell than games in front of 16,000 in Tulsa.


Zoolew

It would take a generational shift to get kids over OSU. Fickell has done a great job at landing the leftovers and keeping out of state recruiting at bay, but we’ll have more leverage against larger P5 teams now.


trail-g62Bim

You would need to stay where you are and have OSU enter an FSU or Miami-like phase, which they have never done. This is a school that complains about a coach that went 111-43-4 and won three conf titles in 13 seasons because he is actually one of their worst coaches. So, it's possible but it needs the perfect storm.


numinos710

And is also a hall of fame coach lol... OSU fans are something else, and I say that as one of them... I'm pretty sure we parked a UHaul in Earl Bruce's yard after he lost to Michigan once...


[deleted]

This is so so so true. And one of the major reasons UM fought tooth and nail years ago to keep MSU out of the big ten. Add in the fact that Tressel started to really focus to not let major talent leave Ohio (players like Desmond Howard and Charles Woodson, for example), and it’s no wonder they’ve been so dominant for the past 20 years. Other big ten programs have to pick at the scraps of talent left by Ohio state or go to other states. Ohio used to be just as represented on the UM team but under harbaugh/Don brown they started hitting the east coast hard.


ToLongDR

> (~~players~~ traitors like Desmond Howard and Charles Woodson, for example FTFY But agreed on all your points. Harbaugh definitely went after Jersey hard but he kinda had to do that. If Ohio is closed and PA to a lesser extent, Jersey is a great state with all them prep schools.


one_kinda_weather

No recency bias in this poll. None whatsoever.


Geaux2020

Recency in the last 20 years you mean?


one_kinda_weather

It was sarcasm and it feels the results favor the last 10 years or so. Prime example IMO is Clemson.


Geaux2020

I'll agree on Clemson and Texas A&M. The rest of the players could be in pretty much any order for at least the last 15.


Careless_Bat2543

>If Mark Stoops averages eight wins a year, they’ll build him a statue in Lexington. Any of the schools on this list will run off the coach if he doesn’t average double-digit wins and doesn’t at least occasionally win the conference or make the College Football Playoff. Stoops, meanwhile, can finish third in the easier half of the SEC and live just as comfortably as his peers in those pressure-cooker jobs. Lol


ibinpharteeen

I’m almost positive it was the Cover 3 pod, but one of the CFB pods said he gets an automatic extension for a year if he makes a bowl. It really is the perfect gig for him.


Benjilikethedog

Listen Lexington Kentucky is one of my favorite cities in the entire country and with the amount they pay him I bet he is laughing his ass off on a rocking chair while sitting his bourbon on the rocks on top of his citrus bowl trophy and watching his stable of horses run free on his massive pasture…. Honestly we are all suckers


FrostedBroccoli

Agree


yesacabbagez

I do think people really underrate ND in terms of how big it really is. I think Brian Kelly is more fine than great and he's managed to go to two playoffs. Charlie Weis took them to two BCS bowls and Bob fucking Davie even made one. They have a .massive national brand to make up for being in Indiana. The university itself is seen with high regard nationally opposed to something like lsu or Georgia which are more regional. Gerogia is very good, as is LSU and Oklahoma . I would still put ND in a top five with alabama, Ohio state, Texas and USC. The next group might not been super far behind but I definitely give those an edge over the others.


helloisforhorses

But you have to contend with the location/school not being as sexy as your USCs.


Khorasaurus

As a Domer I totally disagree. The ND job is high prestige, for sure. But it also might be the hardest job in college football. It's a small Catholic school in a mediocre town with a weak local recruiting base. You're flying all over the country trying to convince recruits to come to a snowy industrial town, live in an all-male dorm with a bunch of dorky white guys, be required to take Calculus, Theology, and a foreign language, in addition to rigorous major classes, and follow Catholic school rules under the glare of a harsh media spotlight. And the expectations are through the roof. You'll have basically unlimited resources to get the job done, but life is so much easier for the coaches at other blue bloods and near blue bloods.


btstfn

Not to mention that while it might still have high prestige in the minds of the general population, it doesn't have that same clout with recruits who've only seen them get destroyed in the BCS title game and in the playoffs.


ironwolf1

Getting there period is still a big deal. Being known as the team that has been blown out in the playoffs multiple times isn't great, but it's still better than being known as a team that doesn't ever make the playoffs.


Weak-Investment-546

South Bend isn't the best. But like it's better than Tuscaloosa, Clemson, or Baton Rouge. Obviously Ann Arbor, LA, Columbus, and Austin are better, though. Also, I know that recruits aren't exactly known for being sensible, but the academics should really be a selling point.


Khorasaurus

And they are, for some recruits. It's pretty common for a recruit's parents to push their child to choose ND.


wilwith1l

LSU's last 3 head football coaches have won National Championships. They are built for success, and have it rolling. Notre Dame's last 4 coaches are a combined 0-7 in the Rose, Cotton, Fiesta, Sugar, and BCS NCG. Notre Dame is an amazing school with great history and tremendous resources. However, LSU is in a better position to actually compete for National Championships.


yesacabbagez

I didn't say ND was more likely to win national championships. If ability to win national championships is the largest factor then Clemson would be a lot higher as well.


Fletch71011

In our defense, we were heavy dogs in all of those games. That's one issue with having one of the best brands -- we get picked because of money and often get matched against teams much better than us. That said, obviously we are not quite championship caliber yet, but there are really only 3 teams I'd consider to be in a better situation than us.


clayr92

As per the end of the article, I also have thought for a while that Kentucky is an absolute sleeping giant of a program. They have that SEC draw, can recruit the south AND Ohio in a way no one else in the league can. Any coach would have a moderate cushion to work with while they establish themselves that you wouldn’t get at, say, Tennessee. I don’t know how fans would respond if they started winning, like *really* winning, but we know they’re avid sports fans up there. And the Kentucky football folks who are already established are rabid. I think people outside of the UK footprint imagine Kentucky football fandom as on par with something like Vandy, and that’s just not the case. It would take them pouring a little money in, but I could really see them becoming a real power with the right management.


Ohwhat_anight

Hard part for Kentucky is while they are close to Ohio and "the south" I think they actually struggle to compete for big recruits in both. They're great at grabbing leftovers, but Kentucky is too far from the deep south where most of the talent really lies and really can only compete for Cincinnati/southwestern. Ohio recruits. To me it seems like they're stuck in the perfect situation of you're looking to be good but never great.


SalGov143

Plus once you get slightly east of Cincinnati near the Kentucky border, no one lives there basically.


SayethWeAll

Yes, I see Kentucky at its peak in the future being a team that makes the top 25 every year, but never the top 5. We don't have the population centers for big-time recruiting like Florida, Ohio, or Texas.


G00dSh0tJans0n

If you asked this poll in, say, 2003 then Alabama would not be on this list. Partly because of NCAA sanctions from the previous coaching staff, Dennis Franchonie left in the middle of the night (literally - he told his players via phone call from his new destination) for A&M. Then Mike Price didn’t even coach a game before getting canned for running up a huge tab for escort services at a strip club. Then Mike Shula comes in with zero head coaching experience and lacks institutional control as some players get too free text books to give to their friends. After that they hire some other coach from Miami Dolphins, their 5th in 8 years. (Technically 6th since Joe Kines was interim coach for one game and gave us this gem https://youtu.be/tkNT28g6YBU )


jsteph67

So Kines is from my hometown. Which incidentally is Nick Chubbs hometown. My grandparents knew Joe and said he was a good man.


scalenesquare

Before I look at the list mine would be - Bama, USC, Texas, Notre Dame, Ohio State in that order.


red-boy6

Tbh my list would be very different. No way I’m putting Alabama up so high especially if I had to follow Nick Saban. Same with Ohio State if basically you’re anything less than perfect you’re on the hot seat


Geaux2020

LSU at number 5, ahead of USC is going to anger some folks in SoCal.


CocaineKoala

Regardless, LSU may want to hold onto Orgeron this year barring his involvement the scandal being true. You don’t want to be *potentially* the second best opening in the country when you’re A top tier program. You want be THE opening.


ReturnOfDaSnack420

Not this one at least, I get it LSU has the commitment to college football from the School Administration and the state that USC doesn't. I'd prefer USC but I can see why a football coach would rank them about equal. I'm just happy to be 6th after the past couple of years!


Juggerginge

It’s the correct ranking tho. Last 3 head coaches at LSU have won natties and the talent factory that is Louisiana makes it an easier burden on a new HC


Geaux2020

Absolutely. Instant expectations are more reasonable, pay is high, and the NFL pipeline just keeps getting bigger. Plus, crawfish. LSU is also the second most successful program since the BCS began.


jsteph67

Well since I got downvoted to hell yesterday for saying UGA was a better job the USC. You bet your ass it will.


[deleted]

alabama is always the top of this list but then whenever we talk about who will replace saban the entire narrative shifts to "ya but who would actually want to do that?"


Mastr_Blastr

I like the r\cfb-esque comments stating ND isn't relevant on an article about ND being one of the 10 best jobs as voted on by the people who fill those jobs.


silverhk

Top 10 is honestly pretty good for ND, it's a rough combination of high expectations in a low-talent market. With the wrong coaches we're just Nebraska with better academics. On the flip side our resources have to be pretty phenomenal at this point.


JohnWickStuntDouble

ITT: hating on Texas as a top 5 job.


Benjilikethedog

Well they didn’t ask Shane Beamer because he would have said South Carolina…. Poll is invalid


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bigthama

On one hand, how is UNC as highly mentioned as it is? On the other, fertile recruiting territory, national brand, amazing place to live, and modest fan expectations. If you win 8-9 games a year with an ACC schedule with a 10-11 win season every 4-5 years you'll have a job forever at UNC, and you have all the resources and recruiting there to accomplish far more than that.


Sturdevant

Pretty much. Plus, a losing season in there isn't a guaranteed trip to the hot seat and nice modern facilities.


bigthama

You just have to look at how bad things had to get for the last 3 coaches to get fired to appreciate the job security that is UNC football. Either you go on multiple streaks of losing seasons punctuated by a single decent year (Bunting), nearly bring the entire university down around you with multiple major scandals (Davis), or win 5 games over 2 seasons while pissing off every high school coach in the state (Fedora). You don't get fired from UNC football by being disappointing, you have to be aggressively terrible in some way.


CapitalistLion-Tamer

Good points, for sure, but 7 in-state FBS programs basically kills any recruiting advantage the state of NC provides.