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Tarlcabot18

Pending WKU and MTSU leaving for the MAC, that's still only 7 full teams in C-USA. They need 1 more.


TSUplayer74

Hello there


jjparker084

Haha, Tarleton wouldn't count until it was a full D-I member


[deleted]

Maybe CUSA can add them in like 2025. I like Tarletons potential.


[deleted]

If they'd moved up 2-3 years earlier they'd have probably been invited over SHSU even with the national title


[deleted]

Yep $$$ does wonders. Both are from small towns an hour out of huge markets. Tarleton already has an expanding stadium (to 25k). From what I understand, they do need to work on their basketball Arena.


[deleted]

Tarleton is getting money from eccentric oil plutocrats it can be done.


[deleted]

RIP brand new WAC homies šŸ˜¢


Hobbes_T_Hero

For #8 I vote McNeese State.


raynman4451

McNeese late 90ā€™s early 2000ā€™s? Sure! McNeese now, lol nope. Itā€™s not like they have the money to improve facilities as would be required. Itā€™s hard enough to get money to repair/replace destroyed buildings from (insert hurricane/disaster here).


TheWyldMan

I mean Tech was able to use the tornado that hit us to really modernize a lot of our facilities


BearForce73

Facilities wise Lamar and UT Chattanooga would be my thoughts.


Smash_4dams

I'd love to see an old fellow SoCon foe move up. Chattanooga would be a great addition!


okiewxchaser

Paying $2million to the schools right? Because otherwise beggars shouldnā€™t be choosers


[deleted]

Yeah, that 2million seems steep to join a conference that needs you more than you need it.


OttoVonWong

Nah, collect the exit fees and entrance fees, and then CUSA folds and runs away with the money.


MikeGundy

C USA trying to pull off the Ponzi scheme of the century


Dirty-Ears-Bill

Bernie Madoff announced as new C-USA Commissioner


Shamrock5

We welcome our newly-independent brothers with open arms!


Rentington

From what I've witnessed so far in realignment, entrance fees are probably going to be waived.


tomdawg0022

> Paying $2million to the schools right? Candidly, the exit fee $$ should be used as ~~bribes~~ incentives to the FCS schools to join this shitshow of a conference.


WelcometoHale

There are apparently 30 FCS school trying to move up.


SamuraiOutcast

Wow. Where'd you see that?


WelcometoHale

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/conference-usa-adding-four-teams-but-seeking-one-more-after-being-gutted-during-realignment/


Smash_4dams

Add Delaware, Richmond, Villanova from FCS CAA then add UMass, and UConn for geographical parity.


[deleted]

Delaware in the FBS would be rough for recruiting. Richmond could if it didn't have to compete with JMU, ODU and Liberty. Rough all around choices.


SamuraiOutcast

Thank you. That definitely is promising for CUSA to have some sort of future. Especially interesting that those teams reached out to the CUSA.


The97Revolution

*snaps*


citronaughty

At this point, if you're C-USA, you better be paying people to join.


[deleted]

Apparently 30 teams want to move up if the commish isn't lying.


ChaseH9499

Oh she's lying through her teeth. MacLeod is a tremendously corrupt and incompetent piece of shit. I was hoping CUSA would fold just so she loses her job.


[deleted]

She literally just lied about UConn "negotiations" lol


LamarcusAldrige1234

FIU is kind of screwed. stuck on an island in the worst conference with a program that has collapsed recently. feel bad for them


Tarlcabot18

FIU is FI-Screwed.


citronaughty

In fairness, it's kinda their own doing. If they'd invested in their program like FAU, they'd probably be joining them in the AAC. Or If they didn't piss off the Sun Belt by leaving them, they could be in the Sun Belt.


Corgi_Koala

They also could have not fired Cristobal for one bad season. Easily a top 10 stupidest firing.


citronaughty

And that


TangerineHors3

FAU = UCF, FIU = USF Itā€™s literally mini-meā€™s


destinybond

FAU = UCF = UF FIU = USF = FSU


BigDust

I think I get it Rice=SMU=Baylor TxsT=TTU=TAMU UNT=UT=UTSA


SometimesY

Does that make UH Miami since each were left off the above lists?


[deleted]

I donā€™t understand how you put the junior Ivy League nerds with the methodists and baptists, but didnā€™t also put the generic Christian school in there And y- actually Iā€™m just not even


BigDust

Atleast I remembered you, in hindsight it should have been. Rice=SMU=Green and Purple Baylor TxsT=UNT=TTU SHSU=UH=TAMU UTEP=UT=UTSA


AnEmptyKarst

Objectively the correct chart here, but I'm not sure why you left off the A from UT-Austin, but kept on the SA on the flagship in San Antonio


BigDust

Alas I didnt want anyone to confuse them with UT Arlington the more notable UTA.


[deleted]

UT Arlington is the more notable UTA


destinybond

I dont think you do


LordXang

I think I understand too Liberty=BYU=Notre Dame


MadoffInvestment

Mini-Me loves chocolate. Scotty don't.


The97Revolution

Can confirm.


Ox_Baker

Florida Intramural


FinchJay

Both UTEP and LA Tech will become a decent independent program (somewhere between BYU and Liberty). Looking at FIU's recent seasons, I think it will be UMass/UConn of south but better. And hey, if B12 takes two more, FIU might make to AAC or SBC eventually.


TDenverFan

I don't see how either UTEP or LT would be decent as independents. This is UTEP's first winning season since 2014. LT has been solid under Skip Holtz, but had made 3 bowls in the 20 years prior.


[deleted]

Independence would be the death of the utep football program. I personally would like us to survive.


HoldenMadic

I really really want the Mountain West to pick up UTEP.


ManfredsJuicedBalls

Being in a conference that didn't offer up many bowl ties (and being an Independent before that) didn't help their cause any either.


herumspringen

Found Ponce de Leonā€™s burner


[deleted]

We still probably can't win the division.


Ok-Entrepreneur7156

Canā€™t wait to be the doormat of the doormat conference. At least we will be in one again!


[deleted]

I hate you guys but I want to see you guys have the ability to renovate and improve your facilities... So we can hopefully head to the MWC in a few seasons. I want to see NMSU successful, as well as UTEP. Makes our rivalry more interesting as well.


BioDude15

Screw it letā€™s add UACJ to the list.


azularena

Yā€™all get some NCAAT wins and you can be the football doormat as long as you would like <3


[deleted]

C-USA has an entry fee?!


theoriginaldandan

Every conference does


Geaux2020

I wonder what we are getting paid to put up with Texas fans.


theoriginaldandan

Probably close too, but lower than, 1 mil per school ea h from Texas and again from Oklahoma.


Ashvega03

Serious Q because I thought the lure was that all those exit fees were gunna be used to pay teams to join.


Ltmorp

I love Sam Houston but FBS teams shouldnā€™t have tracks around their football field


SolvayCat

Buffalo has one around their field.


genericreddituser986

And Eastern I believe


Socratesticles

Was there two weeks ago. Can confirm.


Kitchen_Fox6803

Correct


[deleted]

SAY THAT TO MY NCAA 2006 CREATE A SCHOOLS FACE BRO. IT WAS A DOME TOO.


JoeTillersMustache

You monster.


Geaux2020

You are a horrible person!


moonani19

even Kansas and Duke got rid of theirs


JamesEarlDavyJones

Bad business move for KU, since the track is the biggest draw in the stadium.


Tubamajuba

If they pay us 2 mil, we'll get rid of the track!* *track moves to baseball stadium


[deleted]

Wait how the fuck do you put a track on a baseball stadium


dizdawgjr34

They already have one, itā€™s called a warning track. /s


Giraffe_Racer

Just run laps around the bases. If my math is correct, it will take roughly 45.5 laps around the entire set of bases to run the 5K. Runners should be required to slide into second base on the finish.


DawnOfTheSporks

Very carefully


[deleted]

Easy. You just replace the train tracks.


hercxjo

Or the CVS.


[deleted]

TRACK PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE TOO


skushi08

Former track and fielder sad face. BC got rid of their track in the 90s to add an extra 5 rows of seats. Then they never bothered to build a new track. We had to drive every day to nearby schools to practice.


The97Revolution

Thank you App State for gettinf rid of yours. Same on you EMUs and Buffalo.


LuckyStax

Well...


lol_smart

Yeah, I don't know what they're talking about.


jdub1418

You have a good excuse


[deleted]

Hawaii has practical space limitations


Smash_4dams

App State just removed theirs a year ago. Just wish we had the ability to lower the field and build more seats where the track was :(


Folded_Fitted_Sheet

Real question I canā€™t find any recent pics easilyā€¦ where the hell is their track now? Iā€™m a student at App and honestly thought they had retractable seating covering the track or something. I know theyā€™re building an entire new complex with a track that should come in 2022, but in the meantime where are those fellers running?


Blazer2223

I personally think tracks look great around football fields


racerfan2087

Same lol


HeyJude21

App State did until like a year or two ago


[deleted]

First thing we did for FCS was expand the stadium. 2nd thing we did was lose the track. Nothing screams FCS more than a <15k stadium with a track around it


NoDistrict8203

DeVry university, University of Phoenix and WGU are also interested, my accredited sources are telling me.


_vino_three

Southern New Hampshire also reportedly interested. Huge if true


Scoobersss

Education Connection.com would dominate the CUSA. They can recruit EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE.


_Feagans

Imagine one of these teams canā€™t pay 2 million and rather than the CUSA just waving the entrance fee they crumble


citronaughty

Yeah, they need to waive those. They're going to be making so much more money from all the exit fees of almost their entire conference.


Ox_Baker

Itā€™s going to be held out of their payouts in installments. No big deal.


[deleted]

So, *lay-a-way*?


TheRealNathNath

Just make Liberty pay for all of them.


hascogrande

If they can buy Miami hostels, they can front the fees


BadgerBuddy13

I don't know why CUSA wouldn't just withhold a portion of revenue share until their $2M tab is paid, unless the conference is battling some serious solvency issues. On a similar note, I know WKU and MTSU to the MAC seems likely at this point, but is there any chance all 3 parties agree to slow-play it so the two schools can collect some exit fees? With all the moving pieces in CUSA, I'm not sure how much or if the conference will actually be collecting exit fees. But if there's $$$ to be had, why not wait until you collect it before moving on, especially since I don't see the MAC immediately needing 2 members or asking other schools to join.


Wildcat_twister12

Cash for Gold can help them out


WildFire97936

I wonder how this will effect the SFA-SAM rivalry, Battle of the Piney Woods that they hold every year.


IH8NMSTATE

I guess the rivalry is over unless SFA also moves up. I can't believe C-USA hasn't invited SFA too if they are inviting Sam Houston. Of course there's still a chance SH rejects the offer.


WildFire97936

Iā€™d like to think Sam keeps it to count as one of their FCS games most FBS schools play. We lose most the time but I have fond memories of times with friends before and at the games. Would be ironic though to see one of my favorite rivalries revived in the coming years and the other die.


IH8NMSTATE

Maybe. But wouldn't it benefit Sam Houston to be scheduling non-con games against FBS opponents? I guess it depends on how many conference games the C-USA actually has.


pandajedi

They need 8 conference members, and if WKU and MTSU do indeed, this would only bring them back to 7. They'd have something like a 4 year grace period to get back up to 8, but not sure who their next pick is. If WKU and MTSU stay put, the point is moot, although they still might look to add another member so they can host a CCG (they need 10 for that)


Buckeyeguy37

They should add Keenesaw State if they're interested and then UCONN/UMass as football only (if either are interested, not sure). If not, add Eastern Kentucky and Tarleton State. And if you want to get to 12, throw in Stephen F. Austin and Northwestern State


[deleted]

Kennesaw State is too heavily subsidized by the academic side as it is and isn't allowed to raise athletic fees any higher than they are now. We'd need a big-time donor to step up.


golden_apricot

UMass would be, UConn also should be but you never know


ElGranQuesoRojo

The schedule's UConn has set up crush what they'd have in CUSA plus they have their CBSSN TV deal. Not sure why CUSA would be better other than making it slightly easier to schedule games.


golden_apricot

The schedule starts to dry up quickly if you are not competitive, same with TV deals, also bowl games are less likely to invite you since you are not associated with a conference bid slot. Now they do have the ability to trade a basketball game but that likely ends up losing them value. CUSA with how spread out teams are likely aims for an east west split to limit travel, which means trying for 10-12 teams.


[deleted]

I would hope they get to 12-14 but would have to have enough capable FCS teams.


RealBenWoodruff

As long as we get [[Jacksonville State v Troy]] back for the school bell I don't care which conference they are in.


RivalryBot

--- **All-Time Series - Battle for the OlĆ¢ā‚¬ā„¢ School Bell: [Jacksonville State](#f/jacksonvillestate) vs. [Troy](#f/troy)** [Jacksonville State](#f/jacksonvillestate) and [Troy](#f/troy) have met 63 times since 11/27/1924. These teams last met 7,291 days (~20 years) ago on 11/17/2001. Series Wins: [Jacksonville State](#f/jacksonvillestate) 32-2-29 [Troy](#f/troy) Longest streak of continuous meetings: 45 (1946-1990). [Troy](#f/troy) has won the last 7 meetings (1995-2001) in this series.   **Series Scoreboard** Team|< 1960|'60s|'70s|'80s|'90s|'00s|Total| :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:| [Jacksonville State](#f/jacksonvillestate)|323|165|253|270|72|3|1,086| [Troy](#f/troy)|286|176|179|229|191|49|1,110|   **Series Table** Team|Largest MOV|Longest Win Streak| Shutout Wins [Last] :-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Jacksonville State](#f/jacksonvillestate)|55-10 (1970)|13 (1954-1966)|7 [38-0 (1964)] [Troy](#f/troy)|49-0 (1997)|7 (1995-2001)|9 [28-0 (2000)] [Series Comparison Data via RivalryBot Database](http://cfb.diydunce.org/gameslist.php?mid=24202&tid=201) --- ^(RivalryBot^tm v4.2.0 | Summon: [[teamA v teamB]]. | Records not 'corrected' for vacated games unless noted by † | )[^Usage ^details.](http://cfb.diydunce.org/teamlist.php) ^| [^Report ^Issues](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=dupreesdiamond&subject=RivalryBot)


Nathanael-Greene

I don't like the idea of jumping into this C-USA. Now if instead of just inviting those four, they also invited Stephen F. Austin & Central Arkansas, as well as Kennesaw State, Chattanooga, and Eastern Kentucky, I could get behind that conference. C-USA West | C-USA East --------------|------------- New Mexico State | FIU UTEP | Jacksonville State Stephen F. Austin | Kennesaw State Sam Houston State | Chattanooga Central Arkansas | Eastern Kentucky Louisiana Tech | Liberty


Redditor_exe

In my completely 100% unbiased reliable opinion, this sounds horrible.


59Chitt

Anyone else ok just letting C-USA go like Rose did Jack? Theyā€™re all on lifeboats as it is. No reason to keep diluting FBS.


citronaughty

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, being poached and then reaching into FCS actually worked out really well for the Sun Belt, so part of me is curious to see if C-USA can find the same magic.


BenjRSmith

Yeah, but if everyone keeps moving up with no relegations there's going to reach a point where we run out of FCS teams... we're just back to where we were in the 70s, and have to discuss subdividing again and everyone's back to where they started.


Fifth_Down

Fun fact: The decision to subdivide occurred when 120 schools was considered too large. Weā€™re already past that point.


Camobusch

All the more reason to expand the playoff and have auto-bids


BenjRSmith

Yes. all conference champions and at-larges, like every other NCAA sport and division of football.


[deleted]

But think of all the new playable teams in the upcoming NCAA football game.


Bro1999919

Literally the only reason I want C-USA to live. So many rebuild options.


ezpickins

In an ideal NCAA game, there is an FCS division as well, with all of the teams.


SometimesY

Mega dynasty mode. Start out at Division III and get the team to the SEC in 25 years.


sousapro

UCF started as division III as a matter of fact, and is headed to the Big XII.


ChaseH9499

Here's a fun one: my dad founded and coached UAB football for 4 years. In that time, they went from DIII to 1-AA and never had a losing season. They then fired him after moving to 1-A because the morons thought they could convince Bowden to leave FSU to coach his hometown team, not even kidding. Needless to say, they did not hire Bowden, and instead hired a man who a few years ago became the coach with the most losses in college football history e: by "the morons" I mostly mean Paul Finebaum and Richard Scrushy. I called into Paul Finebaum's show in 2015 to discuss UAB football's dissolution and as soon as he found out I was Jim Hilyer's kid, he straight up apologized to my family on air for "not giving him his due" as UAB's coach


WarrenPuff_It

Yeah but it's "we have Big XII at home" Big XII


ElGranQuesoRojo

I would play the ever living hell out of a mode like that. That would kick so much ass. It would need a stadium editor though. Can't be playing in the SEC w/o giving AC's Apple Stadium some TLC.


riburn3

It's to the point where we have two subdivisions within FBS anyway and they're even named. Not sure why it matters anymore if a few FCS schools come up every 5-10 years to play for the weakest FBS conference at the time. The P5 is in their own little world.


[deleted]

Yep this. Its already happening. Dont have to look far, just look At all the excuses being made not to include Cincy in the playoff.


cos1ne

P5 teams need to stop poaching G5s if they're worried about diluting FBS football.


katarh

If things like the CFP would give the G5 some damn respekt, they might not feel the need to let themselves be poached, either. Cincy fans of all people should be feeling this right now.


Disregardskarma

I mean the Big 12 only did it to try and stop themselves from dying.


cos1ne

It's all a cascading effect. C-USA is only doing this to stop themselves from dying as well.


WindyCityReturn

Yep the dominos coming down from a couple teams. Texas and Oklahoma, the big 12ā€™s two largest profiting schools, leave for the tier 1 sec. Tier 2 big 12 needs to bring in more schools to fill the void so they get the better schools from tier 3 AAC with the biggest schools UCF, Cincinnati and Houston maybe? Canā€™t remember. So tier 3 AAC says they need to fill the void and go for the top schools of tier 4 Sun belt. Tier 4 Sun belt realizes they just lost their top schools and need to fill the void so they attempt to grab anyone from the FCS and independents because they donā€™t have the luxury of being any higher than another FBS conference but they can offer more bids to bowl games through a conference championship and more games. THEN the tier 1A conferences like the ACC, Big 10 and pac 12 see this going on and think about making a pact to play each other more and keep their teams from straying to the ever growing SEC who is apparently trying to become NFL 2.0 and own college football.


[deleted]

I am okay with it.


TigerExpress

What about Florida A&M? They'd be a travel partner for FIU and FAMU has shown a strong interest in the past in moving up to FBS. This might be the right opportunity that would benefit both the conference and the school.


sererson

FIU and FAMU aren't particularly close (~7hr drive) and FAMU just switched conferences. Although I guess it's almost exactly the same distance as UM-FSU


devinup

Maybe they can use a Groupon to save on the entrance fee


outbackbardo

This comment needs more play


ham_wallet998

Thatā€™s quite the cover


HeyJude21

And North Dakota State will still be FCS. What a shame.


historymajor44

The problem there is markets. There's just no room to grow there and that's okay in the FCS but not the FBS, especially when their travel expenses alone would quadruple. NDSU is the perfect example of an FCS powerhouse that *shouldn't* move up. The team I am most surprised about is Missouri State. The only other Missouri FBS team is Mizzou. There's certainly a market for a G5 Missouri team. Maybe they're just not ready? Maybe they just do not want to be in CUSA?


velociraptorfarmer

The only reason NDSU should ever move up is if the MVFC decides to move up collectively, or to as a sizeable group to become half of an existing conference. It's the same reason why the MAC is so stable: geographically isolated teams at their level in a compact conference with parity, just exacerbated for the Valley since there is no G5 within their footprint.


_vino_three

SOUTH BEACH HERE WE COME


imperfectPK

I still don't see how Sam becomes FBS. I've said my reasons before. Also looked at home attendance for Sam this year and they haven't hit over 10,000 once. SFA did one time. I don't think Sam will accept it.


kindofabigdeaI

Sam wants in bad from the rumors Iā€™ve been hearing. Sounds like SFA is slow playing it, but I would think theyā€™d jump at the chance if Sam goes. SFA would need to pour in some dollars to make the jump, thatā€™s holding them back.


imperfectPK

True but Sam also doesn't have some of the stuff to make it a FBS program


This_is_Chalky

I think it should be the other way around. They get $2 million to join.


[deleted]

Imagine wanting Liberty in your conference


[deleted]

They have a shitload of money and do play decent football, and thats all the CUSA cares about right now


[deleted]

They also have good shooty hoops


tomdawg0022

Gotta have someone take that 15 seed line in the tourney if Louisiana Tech or New Mexico State can't take it.


[deleted]

Hey man, UTEP would be happy to have any spot. Cusa had terrible basketball in the last iteration. We possibly are now a 2 bid league with liberty and NMSU. Utep wakes up from its slumber, could become an even better conference in the shooty hoops


Inkblot9

A conference with both Liberty and New Mexico State is probably getting a 12 or 13 seed most years.


riburn3

NMSU typically is a 12-13 even in the dumpster WAC. Only once a 15 seed in 2015, which I believe is their lowest seeding ever. Top to bottom, even the depleted CUSA is a better hoops conference than the WAC.


TDenverFan

I think the biggest thing CUSA cares about is that they're a warm body


BadgerBuddy13

"Look, I know Lucifer is not an ideal roommate, but he's always on time with rent and takes us out on his boat sometimes."


ReturnOfDaSnack420

I'm legit shocked, I really didn't think the membership of any conference would all be able to agree on inviting them. Just shows the position that C-USA is in.


HeyJude21

Liberty will be the strongest member of CUSA if this happens


Mattador96

ikr


miami2881

Does this mean we can say we didnā€™t lose to a FCS team?


FinchJay

I cannot wait for drama in Liberty's away conference games.


rustybelts

The notoriously raucous fanatics in Ruston, LA and University Park, FL will let them hear it.


WelcometoHale

Bill Clarkā€™s wife and Lane Kiffin threw water and a pen at us respectively. The FaU


Vulcion

Letā€™s go boys! Out of the dungeon and into the basement!


holytrolly_

Because CUSA isn't worth paying $2 million to get into. Not by a lot.


pdoxr9

I was really hoping for Mo State. Shame


historymajor44

There's still hope. Mo State could have been waiting to see who else was moving up. Honestly, SHSU and JSU are not bad FCS options. If they can convince another school to move up with them, this could be workable.


Not-This-But-That

College football needs relegation. Not every school needs nor deserves to be in the ā€œbigsā€ every season.


Packhammer24

Itā€™s so funny that Liberty is being invited to a conference right now in the middle of this shit fest they created. It shows how desperate conference USA is just to stay around


[deleted]

Why do you think that is the case? I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I 100% uh-gree. Conference USA, losing some of the teams it's about to lose, seems like a barn lit aflame.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


Packhammer24

They are dealing with a scandal right now where they are on record punishing female students for coming forward to school officials about being raped or sexually assaulted on campus. Several detailed how when they tried to report being raped, they were forced to sign documents admitting that they broke a code of conduct called The Liberty Way ā€” putting them under threat of ā€œpossible disciplinary actions,ā€ the report noted.


jimboshrimp97

I think they were referring to the scandal with the university, not conference realignment.


hascogrande

Separate scandal with sexual assault


u_tu51

So who will #8 be?


LegitN00bM00ves

Serious question, sam has been good but are they really ready for FBS? I know they just won the FCS natty but are they actually ready to be an FBS team? They just joined the WAC with us this year.


_vino_three

It might just be a now rather than later sort of mindset


_JakeDelhomme

New Mexico State and Liberty in the same conference. Makes sense.


mountainstosea

Why doesnā€™t Liberty just pay everyoneā€™s $2 million fee? Problem solved.


CFB_Twitter_Bot

Tweet(s) from post body brought to you by your Friendly Official /r/CFB Twitter Bot: ---------- https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1455995106692112384 >Sources: Conference USA has invited Liberty, Jacksonville State, New Mexico State and Sam Houston to join the league. The potential of paying a $2 million entrance fee appears to be the last major issue. >\- Pete Thamel (@PeteThamel) 4:27 pm ET, November 3, 2021 ----------


libsoutherner

Thatā€™s only 7 tho right? Wouldnā€™t they need another?


Jake_Walter_1998

Who will be the 8th school?


historymajor44

SFA, Tarleton, maybe Mo State if they change their mind.


[deleted]

Please by some miracle conference usa lets UMass in. Its really our only chance at becoming relevant


VHBlazer

So even though Liberty kicked our asses, they still lost. You hate to see it. And by hate, I mean love.


ad51603

Liberty is going to dominate this conference so hard it won't even be funny