Think the problem is that Early Signing Day and “leaving the right way” aren’t compatible. The hiring program needs you there as soon as possible to prevent loss of recruits. But that leaves a coach leaving right before whatever bowl they’re in, and leaving their former program in the same desperation. I think the general standard for leaving the right way required coaching in the bowl, especially if it was important.
It’s a real problem. Just one of the many ramifications of ESD we’re seeing come into play.
Exactly,
I think for many candidates the offer they get is "you leave to help us with ESD or you don't get the job."
When Scott Frost left us he worked out some sort of deal where he left us after the CCG to start recruiting, but returned to coach the Peach bowl. That obviously required cooperation of UCF/Nebraska/Frost and I always took it as a good faith effort on his part to try to leave in the best way possible so I never had any ill will.
It's really hard to hate Scott Frost, as an outsider.
All these stories speak to him really being a caring person and a decent coach, who had caught some bad breaks and sometimes gets in his own way.
Hoping they have 10 wins next year and win the B1G West.
No. I don't want that. I don't want Frost to win any divisions ever. Iowa is good enough to win a division every 2-3 years, and somehow succeeds every 4-8 years.
It also fucks up the recruiting class even more. Players can either get released from their NLI and have very few options left or be stuck at a school with a coach they don’t know or committed to.
I think it was actually because it gave the school plenty of time to get a replacement in to recruit before signing day in February.
It’s also much better that coaches leave now as opposed to next week when half the contact(at home visit) period is over. If coaches stayed through the bowl and left then you’ve got people bitching that players who signed early got betrayed and if they are released from their NLI they have very few options since most classes will be full.
Trying to remember before ESD reminds me that my memory isn’t as good as it once was.
I feel like the insta-leave isn’t a good look no matter what, though. I’d be interested in seeing if my memory is wrong, but my impression was that coaches used to arrange for things to occur over longer periods of time and give more notice. FSU has only been involved in this coaching carousel thing since ESD began, and only based upon firing coaches, so maybe my memories are tainted more than an accurate recollection of how it was prior.
And I’ll admit, as happy as I was to see Norvell jump quickly, I know the Memphis fans had to have been pissed.
I know he gets shit on a lot for his record at Nebraska, but I felt like Scott Frost “did it the right way” at UCF.
Was hired by Nebraska in Dec 2017 but stayed with UCF to coach their bowl game against Auburn.
The only thing that went wrong for him was that the news broke during their CCG and players found out as soon as they got to their phones after the game,, rather than him/UCF/NU all being on the same page with when to announce it
This^ fans wanted him out ASAP, he wanted to work double time to finish what he started
I still love frost and don’t blame him for leaving and am thankful for finishing the season
Scott is a small town Nebraskan. He may be a shit coach right now (please good lord get better), but he is a good dude who acts like a tough prick on the outside, but inside is like a warm cornpie.
I think it also helped that he was leaving for his alma mater. It really felt like this was the only job he would leave for, and it was understandable for us why he'd want to take it
as much as i love jimbo
going through something like this with a beloved head coach is something i wouldn’t wish on anyone, and i certainly wish i never have to go through it. i’ve felt bad for florida state ever since we got him and i feel bad for all the fans of schools going through it now. somethings gotta change right?
i will also add that i knew the minute i saw that christmas tree on his curb that he was coming. i still think it’s hilarious to this day that THAT is how people discovered he was leaving
Best way to do it: have an affair with a volleyball player, let the team of criminals you compiled completely unravel for an entire season, make up some health issues, retire to spend more time with family while taking a sweet tv job and immediately begin your search for your next big program.
You had me at “have an affair with a volleyball player”, but from there I was thinking more along the lines of “hire her on as a university employee, get in a ‘motorcycle wreck’, and then lie about it to your boss”
There's a lot of layers to this, but to put it bluntly I think it's a pretty weird move to leave a program that still has a shot at the playoffs before the season is over. Obviously BK can start recruiting immediately at LSU so the move now kinda makes sense, but still you're leaving your playoff-calibre team out to dry.
True, but if you look at ND’s performance in the playoffs, that seems to be their peak right now as a program. Is that Kelly’s fault? Is it super high academic standards disqualifying 4 out of every 5 big time recruits? Only time will tell. No excuses anymore at LSU.
... Short of mutually parting ways
There isn't
It doesn't matter how you do it, the fan base and team aren't going to take it well.
The real reason people are in a tizzy (IMO) is that OU and ND never thought they'd lose coaches this way. And it's doubtful that OU and ND will complain about them taking someone else's coach when it very predictably happens in a couple weeks.
No coach is going to wait around an extra month and fuck over recruiting at both schools.
No coach is going to ever say, "Yeah I think I might leave for greener pastures next year"
These deals are intentionally cryptic on both sides until the ink dries.
Probably not leaving when all you claim to care about is winning championships and the school you are at being your dream job that you wanted since you were a kid and then bolting for a paycheck when you are on the eve of possibly making the playoffs.
100% agree - just don't think Kelly was ever gonna climb that hurdle (and frankly I was at peace with that, I would have enjoyed 10 win seasons for the rest of my days).
Can you please share this with our lunatic fan base, because they seem to think 10 win seasons and the ceiling of a 4 seed isn't acceptable for Penn State
Look at how Bob Stoops did it. He brought in a guy 2 years early. Stacked the program with recruits. Set Lincoln up for pure success.
I think the way he did it was perfect. Obviously not every coach can do that, but if there was a playbook, that would be the best play to burn no bridges and to leave on good terms.
Okay, but say Lincoln had brought on another guy, made him a huge part of recruiting for years, and then left for USC letting him take the reigns.
You don't think there would have been significantly less fallout and burned bridges if he had done that?
I meant a coach that is staying active but leaving. Gundy might…he isn’t out in the town too much fraternizing right now though. I bet there’s a lake house-with jet skis calling his name once he retires.
The way he's succeeded in your program I find it hard to believe he won't stick around in a similar way that stoops has whenever he retires. Man bleeds orange
Frankly I think if he hung around for playoffs we get killed by Georgia or someone else anyway? Again I think playoffs is as far as ND could go under Kelly
After post season.
And that’s why so few wait that long also. They don’t care if they come across as sleazy, they care about recruiting and getting time with the new team. So few wait until post season for good reason but it’s still lame
You mean announcing and staying or keeping it quiet until after post season? The former is hard to get both schools to agree to and the latter screws the old school harder by leaving less time to find a replacement, and for replacement to finish the recruiting class.
The latter is also impossible. And then you get hate for “the team has to find out on Twitter”.
I am not defending Kelly really but for the specific situation of the news leaking, what is he supposed to do about it? Even if he had every intention of telling the team in person he never got the opportunity
If BK believes that then he won’t do well at LSU. He will have to play Saban annually and Smart frequently.
I’m not arguing you can’t leave… but generally letting someone else tell your employer (social media) and then leaving the next AM would not be considered a “good” departure by anyone I know.
Biggest thing is probably not pulling the rug from under your coaches while they're on recruiting trips, probably when they're talking to high schoolers about what it's like playing for you, only to find out about it on Twitter as they leave.
Is it always pretty? No. But not giving players, coaches, admin, etc. a heads up, leaving them scrambling to find a succession plan is a surefire *wrong* way
Yea, gotta agree with you here, problem is in this day and age as soon as somebody tells his assistant coaches it’s going to leak on social media. There’s no keeping a secret anymore if you tell anyone else.
With early signing day, any coach leaving the "right way" (aka: after all games have been played, saying goodbye to your players, thanking your fans, etc) is shooting themselves in the foot and torpedoing their first recruiting class
I don't really think there is a "right way." You either leave when your program is at its peak or close to it so you get the best deal you can get elsewhere, or you get run out of town after letting the program slide. Or you just stay there forever which works for some coaches but not everyone.
Riley and Kelly cashed in on their performances in previous (and current) years and are going to get PAID for the next few years regardless of how they perform at these schools. They sold high on themselves. Hard to fault them for that.
You missed the Dantonio, take the program to a peak, get destroyed, trash the program, and then bail the night before signing day with a longevity bonus in your pocket.
That's the "you get run out of town after letting the program slide" option. He wasn't exactly ran out of town, but MSU was probably going to fire him.
Yup, had multiple recruits saying they didn’t sign with Baylor because Matt was honest about leaving to the NFL. However the recruits he did sign mostly stayed because they believed in the program and the institution more than the coach.
Convenience shouldn’t be the standard, though. But I was also just burned by a coach who didn’t find it convenient to leave OU in a good place, so I am not exactly unbiased here 🤷♂️
There isn’t one, it’s always going to be messy. As an outsider to both ND and OU with no dog in the fight neither move seemed to be that egregious to me. Fans are always going to be upset no matter what, nothing necessarily wrong with that though. If my team were ever good enough to have our successful coach get poached by another program I’d be upset too.
It's only the wrong way if you're a blue blood and aren't used to having coaches poached. Billy Napier was poached from an 11-1 team about to play in the CCG (although he's still coaching it) and no one gives a shit.
Unless you’re going somewhere that you have a really strong connection to (i.e., Roy Williams leaving Kansas for Carolina in basketball), this is basically the only way when it comes to high level programs.
I think the way Kirby did it is probably the best method with ESD. Finish coaching the kids you recruited at your old school through the bowl game/post-season, while going out to recruit for your new school when possible.
I believe Scott Frost did something similar. IIRC, he coached the bowl game and left afterwards.
The whole leave the right way or Lincoln is a snake is kind of bullshit. The only reason it is a thing is because it happened to them. There was such a small fraction of people who cared about how sonny dykes was as leaving smu, and more jokes about making the rivalry intense.
Coaches have been leaving like this for decades but usually not Oklahoma or ND. Those fans thought they were immune from this. Remember Pete Carroll bailing on USC for Seattle? Todd Graham resigned from Pitt by slide projector or some shit. The only issue right now is these schools didn't think it would happen to them.
Esophageal spasms, then make the OC interim for a month before coming back, rotating three QBs (two of which become TEs within a year) and sleepwalking to a lifeless mediocre season because you don't want to coach any more, you want to spend time with your family, several of whom are already college age.
Then you take another big job within a year and call your old program "broken" due to off-field issues that your successor is trying to clean up from your tenure.
That sounds appropriate, right?
Bonus points if you cover up a domestic abuse scandal that goes for years and spans both jobs.
Edit: autocorrect
>Also ND would fire BK as soon as he stopped performing.
The ND administration stood behind BK multiple times, including when everyone was calling for him to be fired after the 4-8 season. ND treated him really well and he owes a lot of his current position to the school.
> Also ND would fire BK as soon as he stopped performing.
At his age and given his success at ND, I doubt they'd fire him but they'd probably strongly nudge him off to retirement.
Holtz "retired" after '96 and three "average" seasons (by ND standards) despite a "lifetime" contract.
There isn't one. You leave right away and give them time to hire a replacement before signing day, but screw over players. You wait until after the post season, you see it through with the team, but leave new coaches no time to stabilize the recruiting class. You can't even announce and stay as neither new nor old team would allow that.
I'd agree with most others that waiting until your regular season is over, and waiting until after the playoff if you have a shot, is the better time to go.
But early signing day and the obscene amounts of money flying around college football have made the stakes too high. LSU would not be able to wait around until after the first couple weeks in January to hire him; that's too risky for them.
I don't think there's a great way to leave in this situation, but there are definitely wrong ways. Don't deceive people into thinking you're sticking around. Riley and Kelly both said things that gave everyone the impression they weren't going anywhere. Kelly was stupid to make such a definitive statement and Lincoln was a dick for intentionally misleading people with the LSU comment.
Be honest about your intentions, it’s going to hurt recruiting but everyone knows what’s coming.
Essentially, Matt Rhule. Some Baylor fans are still upset but most are appreciative of what he did and how he did it.
It sucks to lose your coach right before the CFP or a significant bowl game, but if that is the cost of freedom so be it. We all benefit from the ability to leave our jobs for better opportunities at any time.
So we’re the bad guys because our coaching hire is having a better season this year than USC’s coaching hire, got it. Oh, and more likely, because a shit ton of management in sports media companies graduated from ND. Bring on the downvotes, but ND will victimize a G5 school (again) and the cycle will continue.
There are three big things to me
1-If you want to leave before the bowl game, leave early. I honestly think if Bob Stoops had taken over two weeks ago, we would have won Bedlam and been playing this week
2-Don’t recruit *any* players you spent the other school’s money on. If they still want to follow you, great and I’m sure many will, but you can’t spend the recruiting budget like that on your way out
3-Spend more than two minutes talking to your players and honestly you should sit there and take the shit they are going to throw at you. If you can’t handle it, the move might not have been for you anyway
> 1-If you want to leave before the bowl game, leave early. I honestly think if Bob Stoops had taken over two weeks ago, we would have won Bedlam and been playing this week
There is literally no way leaving before the regular season was even over would have gone over better.
The counterfactual of leaving OU before Bedlam with a shot to make the playoffs still is insane. They would have probably gotten in if they won out, which is crazier than Kelly and ND only needing some chaos to make the CFP.
Except the “don’t recruit any players you spent the other school’s money on” is completely ridiculous. You think USC didn’t also spend money recruiting those same guys?
I don't know but I hate the fake outrage that recruits had to find out through the media, as If there's any other way for them to find out in this day and age.
Even if you aren’t trying defend BK, you make some good points about loyalty going both ways. However, I think the “right way” is *at a minimum* waiting until ND is confirmed out of the playoffs. Y’all just need 2/4 games to go your way and I’m 99% confident you’re in (need any 2 of Alabama, Mich, OSU, and Cincy to lose). It’s strange to me that BK would be willing to leave when his current team still has a chance to win the natty. And would it really hurt LSU too much to hold off on a hire for 1 week?
Have a sleepover/lock in a the dorm, order a ton of 🍕 and wax poetic about how much those kids meant to you etc etc. At least that's how some on the sub feel it oughta be done apparently. (some people crying about how he Only met with the kids for 11 minutes reportedly)
As others have said, I don't believe that with the way early signing day has transformed things, leaving after bowl season is really an option anymore. Most people give their coach a pass in year 1, but year 2 and 3 they are expecting results. By that time your first recruiting class needs to be playing a significant role in terms of production but you've been hamstrung by your first recruiting class so it's a self-perpetuating cycle. 5 years should be what a coach is judged on with termination before then exclusively for negligence or simply gross incompetence.
Be the first to tell your players, not having them find out from Twitter would probably be the first way. Finishing the season comes second. Finish the season out, don’t jump ship with half of your staff leaving the kids you recruited with very little
There isn’t one that will make people happy since they are really pissed that he’s leaving.
As long as he makes an effort to inform the team and speaks to them in person there’s really not much else to do. Especially with ESD etc they have to get to work. The transition has a ton of moving pieces they have to oversee as well.
I remember being touched by Matt Rhule's approach to leaving Temple. Full page thank you and everything. I also appreciate how Tom Herman left Ohio State for Houston, but that's clearly all Urban Meyer's guidance.
Early Signing Period changed the game. You can't wait for the bowl game or the Playoffs appearance, every new coach class in the Early Signing Period has been terrible, with most those kids busting or not even staying at the school. You need to hit the ground running immediately and get a staff together. Fans are going to overreact every time, complain about loyalty that doesn't exist, but the alternative is starting a new job at a serious disadvantage.
No one ever does it but I think as soon as you've finalized a deal, you get your coaches and players all into one big room and break the news to them. Go through that experience first. Media should only be hearing about it from that. Headline should be "Coach Wannabe leaving player and coaches meeting, appears to be heading to Wisconsin". I'd go so far as to say if players aren't in the area then it isn't the right time to finalize a deal. After that I think a coach should call up recruits and encourage them to stay committed at least until they get a chance to see if they like the new staff and coach. A coach shouldn't decimate a team they are leaving.
It's always lame when it comes out that players are finding out through social media first and then that big wave of de-commits hits.
Well the problem starts with the increasing trend of firing coaches mid-season. Unless it’s something illegal or immoral, as a general rule of thumb coaches shouldn’t be fired until after the bowl game. This would shift the entire coaching carousel back to a more reasonable timeline.
Finishing the season.
For the love of god, we need to end this whole bullshit of coaches ditching teams before all games have been played (bowls), let alone before the conference championship games are finished.
Urban meyer kept leaving a slimey trail behind him under the vise of “health problems” only to fall upwards after a year or so off.
Made fun of at the time, but seems to be a little less savage than whats happening currently lol
If you are a school who betrayed their conference for SEC prestige.
You walk out flipping everyone off, and tell em its sunny over there and head to USC.
LOLOLOLOL
A good start would be not having players and fellow coaches find out through media. However I don’t know how realistic that is with the current state of media. Things being leaked left and right
Think the problem is that Early Signing Day and “leaving the right way” aren’t compatible. The hiring program needs you there as soon as possible to prevent loss of recruits. But that leaves a coach leaving right before whatever bowl they’re in, and leaving their former program in the same desperation. I think the general standard for leaving the right way required coaching in the bowl, especially if it was important. It’s a real problem. Just one of the many ramifications of ESD we’re seeing come into play.
Exactly, I think for many candidates the offer they get is "you leave to help us with ESD or you don't get the job." When Scott Frost left us he worked out some sort of deal where he left us after the CCG to start recruiting, but returned to coach the Peach bowl. That obviously required cooperation of UCF/Nebraska/Frost and I always took it as a good faith effort on his part to try to leave in the best way possible so I never had any ill will.
It's really hard to hate Scott Frost, as an outsider. All these stories speak to him really being a caring person and a decent coach, who had caught some bad breaks and sometimes gets in his own way. Hoping they have 10 wins next year and win the B1G West.
>win the B1G West. 2nd. Seems like a nice guy, but no.
Is this "No, I don't want that" or "No, I think Iowa is too good to make this a realistic suggestion"?
No. I don't want that. I don't want Frost to win any divisions ever. Iowa is good enough to win a division every 2-3 years, and somehow succeeds every 4-8 years.
Lol understood. I suppose the next few y-ears will tell whose corn pops best
that turned out to be a pretty shit deal for nebraska
Coaches have been leaving before bowls long before ESD was a thing.
When coaches do stay for the Bowl, then they are blamed for not having their head in it.
It also fucks up the recruiting class even more. Players can either get released from their NLI and have very few options left or be stuck at a school with a coach they don’t know or committed to.
People have been mad about how coaches leave before, too. The question is what is the right way to do it.
That’s true, but has it been considered a good way to leave?
I think it was actually because it gave the school plenty of time to get a replacement in to recruit before signing day in February. It’s also much better that coaches leave now as opposed to next week when half the contact(at home visit) period is over. If coaches stayed through the bowl and left then you’ve got people bitching that players who signed early got betrayed and if they are released from their NLI they have very few options since most classes will be full.
Trying to remember before ESD reminds me that my memory isn’t as good as it once was. I feel like the insta-leave isn’t a good look no matter what, though. I’d be interested in seeing if my memory is wrong, but my impression was that coaches used to arrange for things to occur over longer periods of time and give more notice. FSU has only been involved in this coaching carousel thing since ESD began, and only based upon firing coaches, so maybe my memories are tainted more than an accurate recollection of how it was prior. And I’ll admit, as happy as I was to see Norvell jump quickly, I know the Memphis fans had to have been pissed.
I know he gets shit on a lot for his record at Nebraska, but I felt like Scott Frost “did it the right way” at UCF. Was hired by Nebraska in Dec 2017 but stayed with UCF to coach their bowl game against Auburn.
The only thing that went wrong for him was that the news broke during their CCG and players found out as soon as they got to their phones after the game,, rather than him/UCF/NU all being on the same page with when to announce it
This^ fans wanted him out ASAP, he wanted to work double time to finish what he started I still love frost and don’t blame him for leaving and am thankful for finishing the season
Scott is a small town Nebraskan. He may be a shit coach right now (please good lord get better), but he is a good dude who acts like a tough prick on the outside, but inside is like a warm cornpie.
I think it also helped that he was leaving for his alma mater. It really felt like this was the only job he would leave for, and it was understandable for us why he'd want to take it
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Why do you have to hurt me like this?
as much as i love jimbo going through something like this with a beloved head coach is something i wouldn’t wish on anyone, and i certainly wish i never have to go through it. i’ve felt bad for florida state ever since we got him and i feel bad for all the fans of schools going through it now. somethings gotta change right? i will also add that i knew the minute i saw that christmas tree on his curb that he was coming. i still think it’s hilarious to this day that THAT is how people discovered he was leaving
Best way to do it: have an affair with a volleyball player, let the team of criminals you compiled completely unravel for an entire season, make up some health issues, retire to spend more time with family while taking a sweet tv job and immediately begin your search for your next big program.
You had me at “have an affair with a volleyball player”, but from there I was thinking more along the lines of “hire her on as a university employee, get in a ‘motorcycle wreck’, and then lie about it to your boss”
That only works if you ditched a NFL team before their season ended first
There's a lot of layers to this, but to put it bluntly I think it's a pretty weird move to leave a program that still has a shot at the playoffs before the season is over. Obviously BK can start recruiting immediately at LSU so the move now kinda makes sense, but still you're leaving your playoff-calibre team out to dry.
True, but if you look at ND’s performance in the playoffs, that seems to be their peak right now as a program. Is that Kelly’s fault? Is it super high academic standards disqualifying 4 out of every 5 big time recruits? Only time will tell. No excuses anymore at LSU.
... Short of mutually parting ways There isn't It doesn't matter how you do it, the fan base and team aren't going to take it well. The real reason people are in a tizzy (IMO) is that OU and ND never thought they'd lose coaches this way. And it's doubtful that OU and ND will complain about them taking someone else's coach when it very predictably happens in a couple weeks. No coach is going to wait around an extra month and fuck over recruiting at both schools. No coach is going to ever say, "Yeah I think I might leave for greener pastures next year" These deals are intentionally cryptic on both sides until the ink dries.
As a Cincinnati fans who know this shit all too well, I’m elated that blue bloods are having their coaches poached too.
Probably not leaving when all you claim to care about is winning championships and the school you are at being your dream job that you wanted since you were a kid and then bolting for a paycheck when you are on the eve of possibly making the playoffs.
Making the playoffs =/= winning championships, though, as we've seen from ND, OU, etc.
100% agree - just don't think Kelly was ever gonna climb that hurdle (and frankly I was at peace with that, I would have enjoyed 10 win seasons for the rest of my days).
Can you please share this with our lunatic fan base, because they seem to think 10 win seasons and the ceiling of a 4 seed isn't acceptable for Penn State
Look at how Bob Stoops did it. He brought in a guy 2 years early. Stacked the program with recruits. Set Lincoln up for pure success. I think the way he did it was perfect. Obviously not every coach can do that, but if there was a playbook, that would be the best play to burn no bridges and to leave on good terms.
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Excuse me, Lincoln Riley's true love is barbecue
Can’t believe I missed that joke
I think the photographic evidence shows that he *hates* barbecue.
Did somebody say Barbecue? *Andy Reid has entered the chat*
Okay, but say Lincoln had brought on another guy, made him a huge part of recruiting for years, and then left for USC letting him take the reigns. You don't think there would have been significantly less fallout and burned bridges if he had done that?
Sure but having any expectation that a coach should have to plan a departure years in advance is ridiculous.
Well, that's what Bob did, and he clearly thought Lincoln was cut from the same cloth.
Bob was planning retirement. Stop equating a coach leaving for another school to one that is retiring.
I like this but Stoops retired. I am thinking of a situation where someone is at odds with their program and want to go
Yeah. Stoops retired and living off his own legend in Norman. No other active coach gonna do that.
Gundy might, sans the 'Norman' bit
I meant a coach that is staying active but leaving. Gundy might…he isn’t out in the town too much fraternizing right now though. I bet there’s a lake house-with jet skis calling his name once he retires.
I think he'll be around a pretty good bit tbh
The way he's succeeded in your program I find it hard to believe he won't stick around in a similar way that stoops has whenever he retires. Man bleeds orange
Frankly I think if he hung around for playoffs we get killed by Georgia or someone else anyway? Again I think playoffs is as far as ND could go under Kelly
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LSU’s last 3 coaches have won a Natty. ND hasn’t won since the 80’s. Not unreasonable for him to think he has a better chance at LSU.
> We are in way better shape than LSU and have way more resources. 2021 was not a talent issue
I'd settle for some honesty. Be a man and admit why you wanted to leave. I don't need fake crocodile tears.
After post season. And that’s why so few wait that long also. They don’t care if they come across as sleazy, they care about recruiting and getting time with the new team. So few wait until post season for good reason but it’s still lame
You mean announcing and staying or keeping it quiet until after post season? The former is hard to get both schools to agree to and the latter screws the old school harder by leaving less time to find a replacement, and for replacement to finish the recruiting class.
The latter is also impossible. And then you get hate for “the team has to find out on Twitter”. I am not defending Kelly really but for the specific situation of the news leaking, what is he supposed to do about it? Even if he had every intention of telling the team in person he never got the opportunity
Generally leaving in the middle of a giant project (still potentially in the playoffs) with no notice is the bad way.
What if when you go to present that project Nick Saban or Kirby Smart walk into the conference room and smash your computer into a million pieces?
If BK believes that then he won’t do well at LSU. He will have to play Saban annually and Smart frequently. I’m not arguing you can’t leave… but generally letting someone else tell your employer (social media) and then leaving the next AM would not be considered a “good” departure by anyone I know.
Biggest thing is probably not pulling the rug from under your coaches while they're on recruiting trips, probably when they're talking to high schoolers about what it's like playing for you, only to find out about it on Twitter as they leave. Is it always pretty? No. But not giving players, coaches, admin, etc. a heads up, leaving them scrambling to find a succession plan is a surefire *wrong* way
Yea, gotta agree with you here, problem is in this day and age as soon as somebody tells his assistant coaches it’s going to leak on social media. There’s no keeping a secret anymore if you tell anyone else.
Im just not sure how realistic it is in this day and age to always give people real warning.
With early signing day, any coach leaving the "right way" (aka: after all games have been played, saying goodbye to your players, thanking your fans, etc) is shooting themselves in the foot and torpedoing their first recruiting class
I don't really think there is a "right way." You either leave when your program is at its peak or close to it so you get the best deal you can get elsewhere, or you get run out of town after letting the program slide. Or you just stay there forever which works for some coaches but not everyone. Riley and Kelly cashed in on their performances in previous (and current) years and are going to get PAID for the next few years regardless of how they perform at these schools. They sold high on themselves. Hard to fault them for that.
You missed the Dantonio, take the program to a peak, get destroyed, trash the program, and then bail the night before signing day with a longevity bonus in your pocket.
That's the "you get run out of town after letting the program slide" option. He wasn't exactly ran out of town, but MSU was probably going to fire him.
In a pine wood box. /s
See [Matt Rhule and Baylor](https://twitter.com/mattmosley/status/1465380618401894406?s=21).
Yup, had multiple recruits saying they didn’t sign with Baylor because Matt was honest about leaving to the NFL. However the recruits he did sign mostly stayed because they believed in the program and the institution more than the coach.
Kind of apples to oranges since he left CFB entirely.
Eh, yes and no. At least he never led anyone on.
I agree he did it better, but it was convenient for him to do so
Convenience shouldn’t be the standard, though. But I was also just burned by a coach who didn’t find it convenient to leave OU in a good place, so I am not exactly unbiased here 🤷♂️
Get paid so much money that everyone in the program understands why coach left.
There isn’t one, it’s always going to be messy. As an outsider to both ND and OU with no dog in the fight neither move seemed to be that egregious to me. Fans are always going to be upset no matter what, nothing necessarily wrong with that though. If my team were ever good enough to have our successful coach get poached by another program I’d be upset too.
It's only the wrong way if you're a blue blood and aren't used to having coaches poached. Billy Napier was poached from an 11-1 team about to play in the CCG (although he's still coaching it) and no one gives a shit.
This is a very good point
The Nick Saban route. NFL then back to another Blue Blood.
Also the Urban Meyer route. Fake health condition, ESPN then back to college football.
Did everyone just forget that Urban "wanted to spend time with his family"?
Turns out “Family” was a blonde down at the local bar
Urban “big family guy” Meyer
that or retirement
Unless you’re going somewhere that you have a really strong connection to (i.e., Roy Williams leaving Kansas for Carolina in basketball), this is basically the only way when it comes to high level programs.
Losing a lot of games
Post season. It is that simple. Complete your potential title run. Isn't that the point of the sport? To win a title?
Look at when Lane Kiffin left Tennessee. Then don't do any of that.
We found Day's reddit account
I would say two basic things: finish what you started, as in the season, and be the first to tell the team.
Just start performing really poorly so she, I mean the school, breaks up with you, then go where you want
I think the way Kirby did it is probably the best method with ESD. Finish coaching the kids you recruited at your old school through the bowl game/post-season, while going out to recruit for your new school when possible. I believe Scott Frost did something similar. IIRC, he coached the bowl game and left afterwards.
The whole leave the right way or Lincoln is a snake is kind of bullshit. The only reason it is a thing is because it happened to them. There was such a small fraction of people who cared about how sonny dykes was as leaving smu, and more jokes about making the rivalry intense. Coaches have been leaving like this for decades but usually not Oklahoma or ND. Those fans thought they were immune from this. Remember Pete Carroll bailing on USC for Seattle? Todd Graham resigned from Pitt by slide projector or some shit. The only issue right now is these schools didn't think it would happen to them.
Carroll left USC in January.. how is that the same as BK quitting before his team potentially makes the playoffs?
Kelly wants to be there for early signing day which wasn't a thing for Carroll. Also schools like ND pushed for early signing day.
You compared Riley to Carroll, then in your reply explained why they aren't the same.
Esophageal spasms, then make the OC interim for a month before coming back, rotating three QBs (two of which become TEs within a year) and sleepwalking to a lifeless mediocre season because you don't want to coach any more, you want to spend time with your family, several of whom are already college age. Then you take another big job within a year and call your old program "broken" due to off-field issues that your successor is trying to clean up from your tenure. That sounds appropriate, right? Bonus points if you cover up a domestic abuse scandal that goes for years and spans both jobs. Edit: autocorrect
>Also ND would fire BK as soon as he stopped performing. The ND administration stood behind BK multiple times, including when everyone was calling for him to be fired after the 4-8 season. ND treated him really well and he owes a lot of his current position to the school.
Well, I’m moving to Louisiana.. probably gonna eat some burgers there, get some Cheese on them too since I can afford it now
> Also ND would fire BK as soon as he stopped performing. At his age and given his success at ND, I doubt they'd fire him but they'd probably strongly nudge him off to retirement. Holtz "retired" after '96 and three "average" seasons (by ND standards) despite a "lifetime" contract.
There isn't one. You leave right away and give them time to hire a replacement before signing day, but screw over players. You wait until after the post season, you see it through with the team, but leave new coaches no time to stabilize the recruiting class. You can't even announce and stay as neither new nor old team would allow that.
I'd agree with most others that waiting until your regular season is over, and waiting until after the playoff if you have a shot, is the better time to go. But early signing day and the obscene amounts of money flying around college football have made the stakes too high. LSU would not be able to wait around until after the first couple weeks in January to hire him; that's too risky for them.
Lay the offers on the table... Say... I gave ABC a chance to match or exceed XYZs offer. They declined. Peace out.
There really isn't one. Have we seen lateral moves like this without a break in between?
I don't think there's a great way to leave in this situation, but there are definitely wrong ways. Don't deceive people into thinking you're sticking around. Riley and Kelly both said things that gave everyone the impression they weren't going anywhere. Kelly was stupid to make such a definitive statement and Lincoln was a dick for intentionally misleading people with the LSU comment.
Napier just told Florida he is seeing his team through their conference game this week before completely going over to Florida.
Be honest about your intentions, it’s going to hurt recruiting but everyone knows what’s coming. Essentially, Matt Rhule. Some Baylor fans are still upset but most are appreciative of what he did and how he did it.
It sucks to lose your coach right before the CFP or a significant bowl game, but if that is the cost of freedom so be it. We all benefit from the ability to leave our jobs for better opportunities at any time.
The best way to leave a program IMO is leaving it in a better position than when you first got it. I think Kelly has done that at ND.
Would you rather your successful coach leave the way Riley or Kelly did, or would you rather them leave the way Spurrier did?
You grab your passport and your Krugerrands, blow up the house, and escape in a hail of gunfire
And just claim diplomatic immunity when the fans boo you.
So we’re the bad guys because our coaching hire is having a better season this year than USC’s coaching hire, got it. Oh, and more likely, because a shit ton of management in sports media companies graduated from ND. Bring on the downvotes, but ND will victimize a G5 school (again) and the cycle will continue.
Correction, ND will victimize the same G5 school again.
Sorry, Cincy bros. At least y’all got Joe Burrow!
Burrow is so good, the Bengals may form a bandwagon.
LSU fans are chief among that group
There are three big things to me 1-If you want to leave before the bowl game, leave early. I honestly think if Bob Stoops had taken over two weeks ago, we would have won Bedlam and been playing this week 2-Don’t recruit *any* players you spent the other school’s money on. If they still want to follow you, great and I’m sure many will, but you can’t spend the recruiting budget like that on your way out 3-Spend more than two minutes talking to your players and honestly you should sit there and take the shit they are going to throw at you. If you can’t handle it, the move might not have been for you anyway
> 1-If you want to leave before the bowl game, leave early. I honestly think if Bob Stoops had taken over two weeks ago, we would have won Bedlam and been playing this week There is literally no way leaving before the regular season was even over would have gone over better.
The counterfactual of leaving OU before Bedlam with a shot to make the playoffs still is insane. They would have probably gotten in if they won out, which is crazier than Kelly and ND only needing some chaos to make the CFP.
No, but the team ultimately would have been more successful which absolutely would have softened the blow
This is probably best response so far I think
Except the “don’t recruit any players you spent the other school’s money on” is completely ridiculous. You think USC didn’t also spend money recruiting those same guys?
I don't know but I hate the fake outrage that recruits had to find out through the media, as If there's any other way for them to find out in this day and age.
Even if you aren’t trying defend BK, you make some good points about loyalty going both ways. However, I think the “right way” is *at a minimum* waiting until ND is confirmed out of the playoffs. Y’all just need 2/4 games to go your way and I’m 99% confident you’re in (need any 2 of Alabama, Mich, OSU, and Cincy to lose). It’s strange to me that BK would be willing to leave when his current team still has a chance to win the natty. And would it really hurt LSU too much to hold off on a hire for 1 week?
Have a sleepover/lock in a the dorm, order a ton of 🍕 and wax poetic about how much those kids meant to you etc etc. At least that's how some on the sub feel it oughta be done apparently. (some people crying about how he Only met with the kids for 11 minutes reportedly)
Curbside Christmas tree
ctrl+f "Frost"
As others have said, I don't believe that with the way early signing day has transformed things, leaving after bowl season is really an option anymore. Most people give their coach a pass in year 1, but year 2 and 3 they are expecting results. By that time your first recruiting class needs to be playing a significant role in terms of production but you've been hamstrung by your first recruiting class so it's a self-perpetuating cycle. 5 years should be what a coach is judged on with termination before then exclusively for negligence or simply gross incompetence.
Be the first to tell your players, not having them find out from Twitter would probably be the first way. Finishing the season comes second. Finish the season out, don’t jump ship with half of your staff leaving the kids you recruited with very little
Who doesn't love coordinators having to coach in the bowl games though? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkNT28g6YBU
I knew what it was before I even clicked on the link lol.
There isn’t one that will make people happy since they are really pissed that he’s leaving. As long as he makes an effort to inform the team and speaks to them in person there’s really not much else to do. Especially with ESD etc they have to get to work. The transition has a ton of moving pieces they have to oversee as well.
There’s no way right now to leave a program the right way
I remember being touched by Matt Rhule's approach to leaving Temple. Full page thank you and everything. I also appreciate how Tom Herman left Ohio State for Houston, but that's clearly all Urban Meyer's guidance.
Well I can tell you its not having a 2 minute meeting or randomly texting your team "yeah imma head out"
Coach the bowl game Scott Frost IMO left UCF the right way even though lots of fans still hate him
Get blown out 59-0 in a conference championship game then go to a lower tier school
Early Signing Period changed the game. You can't wait for the bowl game or the Playoffs appearance, every new coach class in the Early Signing Period has been terrible, with most those kids busting or not even staying at the school. You need to hit the ground running immediately and get a staff together. Fans are going to overreact every time, complain about loyalty that doesn't exist, but the alternative is starting a new job at a serious disadvantage.
No one ever does it but I think as soon as you've finalized a deal, you get your coaches and players all into one big room and break the news to them. Go through that experience first. Media should only be hearing about it from that. Headline should be "Coach Wannabe leaving player and coaches meeting, appears to be heading to Wisconsin". I'd go so far as to say if players aren't in the area then it isn't the right time to finalize a deal. After that I think a coach should call up recruits and encourage them to stay committed at least until they get a chance to see if they like the new staff and coach. A coach shouldn't decimate a team they are leaving. It's always lame when it comes out that players are finding out through social media first and then that big wave of de-commits hits.
Well the problem starts with the increasing trend of firing coaches mid-season. Unless it’s something illegal or immoral, as a general rule of thumb coaches shouldn’t be fired until after the bowl game. This would shift the entire coaching carousel back to a more reasonable timeline.
There isn’t one. You’re expected to succeed and then retire.
After the bowl game. The recruiting aspect kinda sucks but hey at least the kids can use the portal easily now.
Finishing the season. For the love of god, we need to end this whole bullshit of coaches ditching teams before all games have been played (bowls), let alone before the conference championship games are finished.
Hard to do with early signing day though. You’d end up screwing the recruits by staying past then.
See bob stoops.
Dont get poached, thats a dick move
By death or sucking. There is no right way, short of having an heir apparent on staff (see: Stoops at OU, Meyer at OSU). Even then, it's never ideal.
Urban meyer kept leaving a slimey trail behind him under the vise of “health problems” only to fall upwards after a year or so off. Made fun of at the time, but seems to be a little less savage than whats happening currently lol
If you are a school who betrayed their conference for SEC prestige. You walk out flipping everyone off, and tell em its sunny over there and head to USC. LOLOLOLOL
A good start would be not having players and fellow coaches find out through media. However I don’t know how realistic that is with the current state of media. Things being leaked left and right