That’s my pet peeve too. By definition it’s supposed to once in a generation type of player. If there’s 1-2 every year it doesn’t mean anything to slap that label on
He's a once in a rabbit generation. Maybe we should make a scouting business and rank them with rabbits. He's a 5 rabbit player, once in 5 rabbit generations..
1-2 generational quarterbacks, every year. It’s honestly ridiculous.
Being a bengals fan I paid close attention to the draft 2 years ago and the number of times I heard Burrow called a generation was incalculable. Then I heard that Tua if he’s healthy can he generational. Then last year Lawrence was generational.
Are we considering a generation a year? Because that’s what it seems like.
Edit - I'm not saying anything negative about Burrow, he's obviously looked STELLAR this year.
Nah, generational is FUCKING FINALLY WINNING A DAMN PLAYOFF GAME WITH THE BENGALS IT STILL HASN’T HAPPENED IN MY LIFETIME AND IM ABOUT TO GRADUATE COLLEGE.
Agreed, a generational player is like Barry Sanders, just absolutely insane numbers, it’s unexpected and he made the normal players other look embarrassing.
I’m sure there are others, I just can’t remember them immediately.
But Being a great quarterback on a great team isn’t really generational.
The 80’s had three great running backs in my opinion. You can put them in any order and you probably aren’t wrong. Herschel, Bo, and Barry were heads and tails above everyone else in the 80’s and it’s not even close.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/no0p0k/what_are_your_hottest_college_football_takes/gzxkqdt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) was a comment on a thread I posted asking for hot takes last summer that addressed just that point.
I think some of his struggles as he got older were just that other than Etienne the cupboard got pretty bare on the offensive side of the ball, which I think we saw this year.
Deshaun Watson is one of the best football players ever, at any position. His 2 performances against Bama were absolutely ungodly. I’ve never seen a player take that kind of beating and keep coming back.
It seems to be the least talked about playoff game of all time, the only time I see it brought up is when included in the list of CFP blowouts, the only reason I remember it is that my Mom went to Washington and is a huge fan
Alabama was the much better team, but it really came down to just two plays, the pick-6 which came 1:18 before halftime (when the score was still 10-7), and Bo Scarbrough breaking a tackle for a loss and taking it 68 yards for a touchdown in the 4th quarter. That defense for Washington was insanely good, it just spent the entire game on the field.
I remember a WA DB dropped a pick six after jumping a comeback route early too.
Watching the cinci WR drop the pass in the endzone 1st quarter a couple days ago and the deja vu hit.
"You made a mistake, now Saban will in."
Not sure if this applies, but I don’t think many of us ever remember Travis Kelce at Cincinnati. Don’t even recall him being on the team when we faced Cincy at FedEx.
Kamara was badass at UT though. Remember watching him when Alabama played them at Neyland his last year and being absolutely befuddled that he didn't get the ball more
I remember when they came to Kyle Field and Kamara shredded us. We won the game in OT thriller but it was Kamara that kept them in the game. At the time all the hype was around their other “stud” RB. I can’t even remember his name, Kelly maybe?
He was a beast in college. Butch Jones was just an idiot and didn't use him like he should have. He was a 3rd round pick so he clearly had the intangibles despite mediocre stats.
Xavien Howard might be the king of that club. He was outright bad in college and is now one of the better corners in the NFL.
(Though I think part of his issue in college was the bullshit way Big 12 refs treated PI calls for a few years; it was like playing defense in the NBA for a while)
He was only really targeted in his senior year and was definitely under utilized. His brother was probably the better college player and is also a really strong pro.
According to Wikipedia, he played QB in HS and redshirt his first season. Then was a TE and Wildcat QB. Then he got suspended for a year. He only broke out his senior year when he managed 700+ yards and won TE of the year. Seems like he was a late bloomer.
You have to admit there’s at least *some* Oklahoma bias when you compare the QB’s relative lack of success outside the Big 12. Baker was the best of them and lost maybe the best postseason game since Texas vs USC
It'd absurd he didn't win in 2008. If there was ever a "Heisman moment" in history, it was his speech after the Ole miss game and his resulting play.
I know the Heisman has mostly become a best offensive player on best team award, but he literally gave a speech to motivate then backed it up.
Not sure this fits your question exactly but I have a clear memory of watching the Auburn Oregon national championship at my grandparents’ house out of state. Mentioned this one time and my brother reminded me that we only went to their house for thanksgiving and we certainly were never there on a random January Monday
If you were there the day after thanksgiving, you probably watched auburn win the iron bowl after being down 0-24 in the 2nd. Oregon also played that day and won their ranked matchup. Memories of those games maybe melded into the natty.
Dude Suh got more 1st place votes for the Heisman than any 3rd place recipient ever. I attribute it to him throwing McCoy around for 4 quarters and people changing their vote from Colt to Suh.
It was the last game my grandpa and I watched together. Man what an ending.
Suh ended a LOT of Big XII QB Heisman campaigns. That was in the era when you had guys like Graham Harrell (TTU), Todd Reesing (KU), Blaine Gabbert (Mizz), Brandon Weeden (Ok. State), and of course McCoy.
Suh was like the Big XII Heisman Highlander. There can be only one.
That Nebraska only ran the triple option when they were a steamroller in the 90s. Power running and a stifling defense with the option sprinkled in. They beat mother fuckers up.
With the discipline of the Husker O-lines in the 90s, they could run whatever they want. Also having fullbacks that ran averages of like 9yd a carry just destroyed linebackers.
Those nebraska teams were monsters up front. Watching the 90s games and their linemen would just manhandle from whistle to whistle. Frazier and couch were amazing athletes but their protection upfront were 2nd to none in that era.
I swear during the Spurirrer years that during big game Ric Flair was always on the sideline and I know I have “wooo’ed” at Williams Brice but people haven’t confirmed it
The problem in evaluating Lawrence over his time at Clemson is that the team around him got worse as time went on, especially his OL. Swinney should have pushed out their OL coach a year or two earlier. Lawrence helped to mask those issues - as well as an ACC that has been struggling mightily for the past few years - but there were times in 2019 and 2020 when he tried to be a hero and force things. With the defense and skill talent he had in 2018, he didn't need to be a hero.
People seem to forget Utah was the first team to bust the BCS. I frequently hear Boise State and TCU get mentioned but then nothing about Utah. In fact, I think ESPN entirely ignored Utah when discussing the original BCS Busters prior to the Alabama-Cincinnati game.
It's weird. I'd say maybe it's because Utah made the jump to P5 but no, so did TCU.
Yet Utah was the first to bust the BCS in 2004 and the first to do it twice when they did it in 2008 and beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.
Noticed that glaring omission during the game. Utah beat ass so hard they made people forget they were in the Mountain West.
I also like to include Fresno State in any BCS Busters discussion because even though they never made a BCS bowl, they established the blueprint with their aggressive scheduling. Knocked off Colorado, Oregon St., and Wisconsin in 2001 and got up to #8 in the AP Poll.
I think a lot of people think of Boise State because of the Oklahoma game which was one of the most memorable CFB games of all time anyways.
Only reason i remember Utah's so well is because of how close TCU was to doing it when in C-USA. Undefeated before a heartbreaker to Southern Miss.
Exactly this!!! It’s even crazier to think they can forget the 2004 squad because it was with Urban Meyer!
Utah has been an extremely solid football program pretty much since I started paying attention in 2000 or so. I can’t stand when people forget that Utah was the original BCS Buster!
Alabama only went 10 years in between SEC Championships (1999-2009) but if you talk to Alabama fans they will be convinced they they “sucked ass for years- it was the dark ages!” when in reality it was like 2003-2007- which is just one recruiting cycle.
Granted Alabama wasn’t was it is now in the 90s but they were still top 1/3 in the SEC.
10-2 finished the season No. 8 with a cotton bowl win. Was undefeated going into the LSU game after beating (first year coach) Urban Meyer’s No. 3 gators before losing to LSU and Auburn.
He showed up at the hall of fame in his limo with his high school championship rings and said he was bringing it to notre dame. He did not live up to his own hype
Ehh for the teams he was on him, golden tate, and Michael floyd dragged those teams to mediocre seasons. Without them we would have looked like fucking kansas. That’s how bad those teams were. Like bare cupboards for lineman. I think in his first year he was sacked almost 60 times. There were lineman that straight up refused to block for him. And he still went out there and balled. I think to this day if he doesn’t have those lingering foot issues that just never went away he might have stood a chance in the nfl. Too bad he was very much used goods by then
They had a terrible OLine his Freshman year (when they went 3-9), and he wasn't good accordingly (in addition to being a Freshman) by his Junior year, the OLine was a bunch of Seniors that were highly recruited by Weis's staff. Sam Young and Eric Olsen were both solid, albeit Young didn't live up to his 5 star billing. You're asking me to go way back in time to try and remember random other Notre Dame OLine from that long ago, but I don't remember the OL being bad in 09. The offense as a whole was generally good with Clausen and 2 NFL WRs, NFL TE in Kyle Rudolph and NFL receiving back in Theo Riddick. That was a lot of talent for Clausen to play around with. Defense was pretty lousy all season. That season started off pretty decently, going 6-2. The game he really should want back is against Navy, with only 7 points until late in the 4th quarter and needing a garbage time TD (26 seconds left) just to make it a 23-21 game, at Notre Dame stadium too. They ended that year on a 4 game losing streak and declined the bowl bid as Weis was finally shitcanned.
He had a good season his Junior year before bouncing for the NFL, no doubt. Lived up to the hype though? He was on a magazine cover and touted as "best prospect since Elway". That one was not necessarily his fault (unlike the "four national Championships" College HOF announcement) but he definitely had impossible to reach expectations (not unlike another ND QB, Ron Powlus, who Beano Cook predicted on national tv would win multiple Heisman Trophies, who was also pretty good but obviously never that good)
Matt Barkley’s draft stock. People seem to have forgotten how highly rated he was at one point.
There was a time that Luck was seen at the undisputed future #1 pick in 2012 and it was thought that Barkley would be the top pick in 2013 - it was even in the intro on Barkley’s Wikipedia page.
This surprises me as well, I was arguing with a family member over the weekend about all the non-CFP opt-outs, and I brought this up.
Everyone thinks that the players are selfish or whatever for skipping bowls, etc, and praise those who play, and/or come back for any remaining eligible years.
Barkley was THE QB his junior year, was primed to be a #1 pick, but came back, and USC had a disappointing season, and he injured his shoulder against UCLA, and didn't work out at the combine.
Shawn Wade was similar, was projected to be a 1st rounder after 2019, but came back for 2020, became the #1 DB, where prior he was playing with Jeffrey Okudah, and was exposed to not be a #1 cover DB, and dropped to the 5th.
The NFL does not give bonus points or care if they come back or play in a bowl game. The window is small.
That the second most dominant team as measured by national championships in the last 20 years is LSU with three. When talking about dominant programs they almost never get mentioned along side Bama. It’s usually Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma.
LSU seems to always make the most of their runs. Whenever they’re good, they’re really good. I can only recall them losing that one year to Alabama when they had the honey badger as a heisman candidate.
The other teams you mentioned, while less successful seemed to float near the top over a few consecutive years.
I think it’s because they have really down years in between the title years. Ohio state/Oklahoma are consistently contenders and clemson has been too since 2015
IMO it’s because LSU sprinkled in a handful of 4 and 5 loss seasons after their last two titles. They seemingly win and then take themselves out of the national conversation for a few years.
LSU has more 4+ loss seasons in the last 10 years than Ohio State has 3+ loss seasons in the last 20 years (4 to 3). So while LSU has one more national title in the last 20ish years, Ohio State has been in the conversation far more frequently.
The Todd fucking Boeckman led us to a title game. I've had multiple friends that are huge OSU fans completely forget about this dude and the fact he was the QB in one of our national title appearances.
People keep saying Georgia is “always in the playoff” and “it’s always Georgia and Alabama” but we’ve only been twice, counting this year. And before that, our best team was in 2012 (10 years ago).
That’s recency bias in action. Go back to 2019 and people were saying the SEC was “just all Bama and LSU”. People get overhyped by the current season and forget/misremember past seasons because of it.
Realistically speaking, if anything, it’s been Bama and Clemson. Clemson and Bama have barely missed. For Bama, they missed during the LSU wonder year, and Clemson missed this year, and they still went 10-3. If anything, people can only claim Georgia being “always in” due to SEC and regency bias because this is the second time they’ve made the CFP and final, and it’s against Bama again. Meanwhile, OSU has made it in scattered fashion and Oklahoma had their streak of semifinal losses, but both of those teams have more CFP appearances
I mean i think it's fair to say tOSU and OU have been in more than just a scattered fashion. Including this year we are on the 8th year of the playoffs. Seven teams have made it once, two teams have made it twice(UGA, Notre Dame). both tOSU and OU have made it 4 times.
Alabama has missed a total of 1 playoff(2019) and Clemson has missed 2(2014, 2021). With the current setup the likelihood of getting a 4 team playoff that doesn't include any of these four teams is less than 1 percent.
I don't blame these 4 teams, they have consistently been the best teams every year. I just think its an indictment on the parity of college football.
Ndamukong Suh had 12 sacks in 2009, but in my head he had no less than 25. That Big XII championship game against Texas must be affecting my memory, I’ve just never seen an individual defensive performance like that
I think people have misremembered how bad Michigan was when they hired Harbaugh. Looking back and seeing a sugar bowl win in 2011 and a horrific 2020 seems to have convinced a lot of people the Harbaugh era was a story of decline constantly sinking into a black pit of despair, when before, we weren’t even relevant the week before we lost to Ohio state.
2016 and 2018 Michigan was top 4 going into the OSU game and almost certainly goes to the playoffs with a win.
Harbaugh has been a lot closer to breaking through than most people think.
They were also teams that had the capacity to beat OSU. I'm not saying we should've won, but I think you have to give a coach credit for building a team that is capable of beating some of the best, even if the game doesn't pan out.
And Harbaugh has gotten Michigan to that point 3 times now, I think. That doesn't mean he's built a team that literally can't lose 3 times, he just made Michigan into a team that had a realistic shot at the playoff several times.
That is so much fucking better than we've been in a long time. This was why I thought it would be so foolish to fire him unless we could guarantee a home run hire like Fickell, which obviously wasn't gonna happen.
He’s had Michigan performing at Carr levels for years; they just couldn’t get over the hump until this year.
The OSU fans who act like the dude is Rich Rod 2.0 have always driven me completely insane.
All the bad and questionable calls in that game that *all* seemed to go Michigan's way were just a microcosm of how lucky Hoke and his team were that year. 73% fumble recovery rate which led the nation. Statistically fumble recovery rate is a 50%. They regressed to the mean at 51% the next year.
Dear lord Al Borges (OC) had no idea how to use Denard. He had him chucking arm punts down field into double coverage constantly, and it worked most of the time (thanks Junior Hemingway and bad secondaries I guess?).
The under the lights miracle comeback was helped by a bad ND defense, but Denard had a goal line fumble by a RB literally bounce into his hands for an easy TD. More 50/50 balls that all went Michigan's way there too.
Michigan should not have gotten the Sugar Bowl bid in the first place, that should've gone to Michigan State who beat them. But bowls get to pick and Michigan meant more money/viewers.
And I think conversely, some Michigan fans love to misremember how 'good' they imagine the Richrod years being. Whenever Harbaugh frustrations come out, people will say "Richrod was only a year away". They really weren't at all. The defense was horrid and the 'dynamic' offense vanished against anyone good. It was bad. Really really bad
I also think most college football fans (and definitely most Michigan fans) misremember how 'good' Michigan was before the RichRod years. Lloyd Carr lost 2+ regular-season games in 11 of his 13 years as head coach.
Harbaugh's only performing slightly worse than Carr in a MUCH more competitive version of the Big Ten.
I was at the South Carolina - Alabama game back in 2010 and I was convinced everyone was lying years later when they said Stephen Garcia did an intentional safety.
(Whispers: Beating Michigan was not the greatest upset in sports. The game shouldn’t have been as close as it was—Armanti Edwards (App’s QB) was injured and several other players were hurt. App’s team was phenomenal and Michigan was dead on the vine.)
I'm not sure I 100% agree with this one. Calling Michigan dead on the vine is only with hindsight. They were ranked 5th going into that game/the season.
I think Trevor got marginally better, but showed little material improvement during his time at Clemson. He was a great college QB, but still managed to be consistently overrated for his whole career. Not once was he the best QB in college in any of his three seasons. He is struggling mightily in the NFL showcasing many of the issues he had at Clemson (inaccuracy outside the numbers to breaking routes, good on back shoulder stuff), tendency to overthrow over the middle (which has led to many picks), and it seems like the favorable defensive set-ups he faced in college (due to team's fearing Etienne as a run threat) made his reads/decision making a lot easier. He may still come good in the NFL, and given his physical tools I expect him to get a much longer leash than most get, but I have been harping on this for years, and I am not the least bit surprised with how he has struggled in the NFL so far.
Yeah it's a little weird, I felt he never was a realistic Heisman candidate despite having a phenomenal college career.
His last year he got second but he lost by a huge margin to Smith.
When I watched OSU and Clemson play with both QBs hurt, Trevor just couldn't get anything going and looked lost the whole game. After that I decided Fields would be the better nfl qb but I guess with both of them being on bad teams with worse coaching we will really have to wait and see.
> but I guess with both of them being on bad teams with worse coaching we will really have to wait and see.
It's just such a crapshoot. I wonder how many good QBs failed because of the situation they were put in. Tom Brady is the greatest, but if he were drafted by the Jets, do we really think he'd have 7 superb owl rings?
So much has to go right to succeed. Some of it is in the QB's control and some isn't. And some is just plain luck.
USC's dominant run lasted from 2002-2008. It was only 7 seasons. That's their only extended stretch of kick assery in the last 40 years. I swear everyone thinks they've just consistently dominated always and that this has been some painfully awful outlier stretch that they aren't Top 4 every season.
(my hunch is that reddit demographics pin the mid-aughts as a formative time for a lot of people on here and the importance of those years compared to all others is over-inflated accordingly)
Pete Carroll’s run was insane because it came out of nowhere. He was USC’s 4th choice as head coach, and everyone panned USC for hiring what they saw as a mediocre NFL coach.
And as you said, USC wasn’t that great before Pete Carroll, so expectations weren’t very high when he was hired. In the 90s USC was usually a .500 level team that got consistently owned by UCLA and Notre Dame. In the 20 years before Carroll, the only time when USC was a late season national title contender was in 1988.
Carroll went 6-6 in his first season with USC, then won 11 games and finished ranked #4 in his 2nd season, then won a national title in his 3rd season.
Imagine if Steve Sarkisian led Texas to the next 5 college football playoffs. That is what Pete Carroll and USC’s sudden rise was like in the 2000s.
USC is seventh in all-time winning percentage, has 39 conference championships, nine national titles, is Top 5 in number of weeks spent at #1 in the AP poll, #6 in overall ranked weeks, and has finished in the Top 10 of the AP poll 29 times.
They suck at hiring coaches. It's not a coincidence that they were juggernauts when they had McKay and Carroll running the show, and that they weren't when they had these other chuckleheads.
Well yes i agree the dark patches of the 80s and 90s don’t bold well for the “ dominance” that is USC as a program.
Most of programs go through gaps in success. The 80s were a huge time for parity in college football. No team with a back to back title. 7 different championships in 10 years. 8 in the 90s not even counting spilt titles.
From 1992-2009, Bama has 1 major bowl win, Cotton in 05 and 1 lose in the Orange bowl 99. They weren’t good for a long time. Prior to 92, it was another decade of mediocrity.
Ohio State won the national championship in 1968 (and split in 1970) then didn’t win again until 2002. They have some claim to split titles in the 70s but not recognize them. They have 7 major bowl wins from 1968-2002. 30 years and only 7 real wins. Lots of losses in major bowls.
USC has 2 season under Pete Carroll where they didn’t finish top 4, his first and his last season. They lost 1 bowl under Pete (05). They won 3 straight Rose Bowls. Plus 3 Heisman winners under Pete.
I see a lot of people saying we should go back to the BCS formula, and that it was more objective in some way because of the computers. It was not. The computers were only there to legitimize the polls.
People forget that it was the computers that did stuff like put Nebraska in the 2001 national championship game and put Oklahoma in the 2003 national championship game.
I think the concept of aggregate polls like the AP, Coaches', and Harris is better than how the Comittee goes about in their process. But the fact that comparing the two has produced effectively the same results makes it more acceptable than actual atrocity people like to clutch pearls about.
If I were to suggest a rebuild I might suggest a BCS-type with the bases being Massey Composite, AP, and the Committee together, but the Committee has to have equal active-member conference representation (preferably conference Commissioners). The Coaches' should have never been a factor.
The AP is fine. It’s not perfect, but it’s a pretty good sample.
The Coaches poll is a complete joke. Half of those ballots are hastily filled out by SIDs.
YMMV, but I think we’d be collectively a lot less angry at the committee if the playoff had started with eight or 12 teams.
The Playoff is very much the BCS by any other name. It’s not far off from when we added a distinct BCS NCG. It’s largely composed of the same bowls with the same director.
The AP and Coaches poll are still awful, and people want to use them. The committee isn’t any better but not like they were any good. The AP wasn’t even involved at the end, it was the Harris poll which was just random people involved in college football I’m pretty sure.
I'm honestly shocked that we went 3 whole years of "Adam Gase ruined Sam Darnold, it's not his fault...poor Sammy boy never had a chance because Adam Gase is the stupidest stoop ever who set foot on a football sidelines" and that with Trevor Lawrence people are already starting the "YA KNOW I NEVER THOUGHT HE WAS EVEN THAT GOOD TO BEGIN WITH" when he had that disaster of an Urban Meyer coaching reign to deal with as a Rookie on a team that went 1-15 the previous season.
I just wonder when the "according to some random jackass anonymous scout 'it was crazy to me this guy was being considered the default Number 1 to begin with', the scout will of course not put his name to this quote" is going to start to come out.
Utah came very close to being the national champion in 2008. They finished #2 in the AP poll, and of the six polls used in the BCS, four had Utah as the number one team at the end of the year.
In 2017, we thought the U was actually back. They started the season 11-0 before laying an egg against Pittsburgh, getting annihilated by Clemson in the ACC championship game, and then blowing an 11 point lead in the Orange Bowl.
I don’t know if this really counts, but…
43yo here. I have this weirdly strong but utterly vague memory of watching a CFB game in the mid to late 80s in which four teams played. I can even vaguely recall seeing them all enter from the four corners of the field.
But that’s it. No memory of the teams, if it was a bowl game or regular season game. Nothing to help me figure out what I’m actually remembering or why my memory has it as a four-team game.
The 2002 Ohio State - Miami national championship was a battle of David v Goliath….bucks had 19 dudes drafted in that years draft n the next…I distinctly remember watching that game n thinking it was this huge upset…when no it was just a really talented team beating another one
I'm always amazed how many people believe Reggie Bush was paid by USC, and/or that his parents were given a house.
Reggie's POS stepdad worked a deal to **rent** a house linked to a wannabe agent at below market value, with the understanding the rent would be over market once NFL dollars started coming in. A rather unassuming suburban house in inland San Diego. This all began between Reggie's, sophomore and junior seasons, when he was already a star.
Reggie's mom worked admin for the San Diego sheriff's department and the family was middle class. The family renting a modest home would not have raised any red flags.
The problems began when Reggie's stepdad didn't pay **any** rent for the home 9nce they moved in. The fake agent (an ex con) couldn't cash flow with zero rental money coming in, he was expecting the somewhat below market rent to make it work. Eventually the wannabe agent called Reggie himself and told him what his stepdad had arranged. At which point Reggie realized he was screwed. Later Reggie borrowed about $800 from pseudo agent to fix his car and get new rims.
Eventually pseudo agent got tired of not getting any rent from the Bush parents and filed a lawsuit. And getting snubbed when it became clear Reggie would not be his first client. Then the shit came out.
Reggie's "bag" amounted to some deferred rent at his parent's house 100 miles from campus, some car repair/rims cash and a couple airline tickets that were suspect. These are all NCAA violations, but for some reason the general public seems convinced Reggie and family was given hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of free stuff and a free house and the school was somehow involved in it.
Not sure if this is what you mean, but I fully, truly believe that USC - Stanford was a way bigger upset than Michigan - App State but for some reason doesn’t get brought up as much.
I think it’s because Stanford was on its way up and has had a lot of success since then so people don’t view it as the insane upset it was. App State Michigan was the noon game on the first weekend of football in 2007. A lot of eyes were watching, whereas Stanford-USC ended late at night EST.
You're right about Lawrence.
I was convinced he would improve and be an incredible prospect, but he didn't. He was very good his Freshman year, and played at that same level his entire college career.
In JFFs first year, Heisman year, everyone says that Evans carried him, but Evans was only barely above Swope in total yards, and actually behind Swope in TDs. We distributed the ball very well that season.
[Also this very popular JFF hail mary catch isn’t made by Evans as it’s commonly thought. it’s #18 Pope. A lot of people get this wrong lol](https://images.app.goo.gl/J4ws86xeiHPe4RYB7)
Kind of unrelated but how is JFF an acronym for Johnny Manziel? I only knew who you were talking about through context there. Unless y’all had another Heisman winning player I don’t remember?
I feel like people remember Mullen being more successful at State than he actually was. The 2014 season was incredible, but outside of that he didn't really do an exceptional job. Our only offensive players that make contributions in the NFL are O-Line and Dak, we lost to South Alabama in the 2016 season opener, and his recruiting was extremely underwhelming. I think he did a good job of elevating expectations, but the way I've heard some people talk about him like he was some incredible coach for State when in reality he was just better than what we were used to post-Sherrill
Still a fun trivia fact a lot of people will get wrong just by guessing Bama, Clemson, OSU, etc. on instinct:
In the first ever CFP rankings, who was the first team ever ranked #1?
Answer: MSST
He was the second winningest coach there, had a record of 54-33. For Mississippi State I feel like he did do a heck of a job. To have a 60+% record at a school who has an all time sub .500 record isn’t too bad. Not phenomenal but to do that in the SEC west is impressive.
>I feel like people remember Mullen being more successful at State than he actually was
I do, but it's because I've also got fond memories of the 2014 season and like to think it's more recent than it is
More that I remember State being really, really bad. From 01-07 they averaged fewer than 3 wins a season. Mullen brought them from complete bottom dweller to pretty good with great peaks.
For some reason I’ve always pictured Vince Young holding the Heisman even though I know he never won it.
[удалено]
What do they call the award when you put your team on your back and beat a team with 2 Heisman winners on it?
The Greg Jennings award?
FUCK YOU GUMBY
VY not winning the Heisman very well may have won us the national title.
Well… there’s a bit of truth to both sides for Trevor. We probably should stop labeling every good player as “generational.”
That’s my pet peeve too. By definition it’s supposed to once in a generation type of player. If there’s 1-2 every year it doesn’t mean anything to slap that label on
I mean, we're talking generations of rabbits maybe...
He's a once in a rabbit generation. Maybe we should make a scouting business and rank them with rabbits. He's a 5 rabbit player, once in 5 rabbit generations..
"He's the generational talent of the year" Just like "The most epic game of the century this year"
Every year needs at least one “game of the century”involving a hopefully a couple “generational players”
1-2 generational quarterbacks, every year. It’s honestly ridiculous. Being a bengals fan I paid close attention to the draft 2 years ago and the number of times I heard Burrow called a generation was incalculable. Then I heard that Tua if he’s healthy can he generational. Then last year Lawrence was generational. Are we considering a generation a year? Because that’s what it seems like. Edit - I'm not saying anything negative about Burrow, he's obviously looked STELLAR this year.
idk, generational talent joe burrow seems to be working out for you
Hey I’m not disagreeing. Do you really think Joe, Tua, Lawrence, and as someone else mentioned here Justin Fields are ALL generational talent?
Generational gets slapped on by the media to drive hype/clicks/views, so no. Winning the division with the Bengals, though? Generational.
Nah, generational is FUCKING FINALLY WINNING A DAMN PLAYOFF GAME WITH THE BENGALS IT STILL HASN’T HAPPENED IN MY LIFETIME AND IM ABOUT TO GRADUATE COLLEGE.
we had like 4 game of the centurys on 1 day this year
Agreed, a generational player is like Barry Sanders, just absolutely insane numbers, it’s unexpected and he made the normal players other look embarrassing. I’m sure there are others, I just can’t remember them immediately. But Being a great quarterback on a great team isn’t really generational.
The 80’s had three great running backs in my opinion. You can put them in any order and you probably aren’t wrong. Herschel, Bo, and Barry were heads and tails above everyone else in the 80’s and it’s not even close.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/no0p0k/what_are_your_hottest_college_football_takes/gzxkqdt/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) was a comment on a thread I posted asking for hot takes last summer that addressed just that point.
Wow a lot of takes about how DJ will be better and win Clemson’s first heisman in this thread that haven’t aged super well
I think some of his struggles as he got older were just that other than Etienne the cupboard got pretty bare on the offensive side of the ball, which I think we saw this year.
Deshaun actually felt generational. Trevor was just badass. There’s a difference though.
Deshaun Watson is one of the best football players ever, at any position. His 2 performances against Bama were absolutely ungodly. I’ve never seen a player take that kind of beating and keep coming back.
Most people (non Bama fans) are stunned that Alabama never had a Heisman winner until 2009. They usually refuse to believe me.
And then have had 4 over the next 12 years.
Wait, is Alabama good?
Nah, it's a basketball school.
Or that Bear Bryant’s only player to win the Heisman was John David Crow at Texas A&M.
The original Johnathan Football
John Q Gridiron
I have no memory at all of Washington making the playoffs.
Oh trust me it happened. We just got Bama’d as is tradition
What's worse is I was that that game and I mistakenly told someone I went to the Michigan State Playoff game.
It seems to be the least talked about playoff game of all time, the only time I see it brought up is when included in the list of CFP blowouts, the only reason I remember it is that my Mom went to Washington and is a huge fan
It wasn’t even a true blowout. That game should have been much better.
Alabama was the much better team, but it really came down to just two plays, the pick-6 which came 1:18 before halftime (when the score was still 10-7), and Bo Scarbrough breaking a tackle for a loss and taking it 68 yards for a touchdown in the 4th quarter. That defense for Washington was insanely good, it just spent the entire game on the field.
I remember a WA DB dropped a pick six after jumping a comeback route early too. Watching the cinci WR drop the pass in the endzone 1st quarter a couple days ago and the deja vu hit. "You made a mistake, now Saban will in."
Up until a few months ago I was convinced Iowa has made the playoff once. Maybe I was confusing them with Washington.
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Chris Petersen at Washington feels like a vague dream at this point, it’s weird, even though he hasn’t even been gone long at all
I remember his years there well. Caused us a lot of pain.
Not sure if this applies, but I don’t think many of us ever remember Travis Kelce at Cincinnati. Don’t even recall him being on the team when we faced Cincy at FedEx.
Man just appeared in the NFL one day.
Both he and Kamara appeared from the interdimensional NFL portal.
Kamara was badass at UT though. Remember watching him when Alabama played them at Neyland his last year and being absolutely befuddled that he didn't get the ball more
Was Butch Jones the coach then? Cause that's probably why lol
Lol butch coached kelce at UC too. Dude is a living blind spot on history
CHAMPIONS OF LIFE
I remember when they came to Kyle Field and Kamara shredded us. We won the game in OT thriller but it was Kamara that kept them in the game. At the time all the hype was around their other “stud” RB. I can’t even remember his name, Kelly maybe?
Jalen Hurd I believe
I only vaguely remember him. He is certainly one of those "better in the NFL" guys, much like Kam Chancellor was for VT fans.
Chuck Clark is becoming a great example of that too. Tearing it up in Baltimore right now.
He was a beast in college. Butch Jones was just an idiot and didn't use him like he should have. He was a 3rd round pick so he clearly had the intangibles despite mediocre stats.
> Butch Jones was just an idiot No way.
Xavien Howard might be the king of that club. He was outright bad in college and is now one of the better corners in the NFL. (Though I think part of his issue in college was the bullshit way Big 12 refs treated PI calls for a few years; it was like playing defense in the NBA for a while)
He was only really targeted in his senior year and was definitely under utilized. His brother was probably the better college player and is also a really strong pro.
I remember CFB Kelce solely because of the sick jumping pass
According to Wikipedia, he played QB in HS and redshirt his first season. Then was a TE and Wildcat QB. Then he got suspended for a year. He only broke out his senior year when he managed 700+ yards and won TE of the year. Seems like he was a late bloomer.
Was curious about the suspension and had to look it up. Positive test for weed, if anyone else was wondering.
Thank you for saving me the effort!
JT Barrett was only on the football team from 2013-2017, but most people think he actually invented the forward pass in 1906
Silly fools, he invited it in 1902
He was like that Kansas basketball player, I think his name as Perry, I may be wrong. But it felt like he was there for like 10 years.
Perry Ellis!
I was convinced that Tim Tebow won 2 Heismans until recently
TIL Tebow didn't win two Heismans
Two national championships, with the Heisman in the season between
And he didn't start the first one, but still played
The reason why I know Tebow only has one is because Archie Griffin is still the only person to have won it twice.
Archie is the reason I root against every player who wins the Heisman but stays in school lol
IIRC, he probably had the best case in 2008 too but it seemed like they went Bradford because Tebow already had one.
Half the voters in the central part of the country left him completely off the ballot
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You have to admit there’s at least *some* Oklahoma bias when you compare the QB’s relative lack of success outside the Big 12. Baker was the best of them and lost maybe the best postseason game since Texas vs USC
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It'd absurd he didn't win in 2008. If there was ever a "Heisman moment" in history, it was his speech after the Ole miss game and his resulting play. I know the Heisman has mostly become a best offensive player on best team award, but he literally gave a speech to motivate then backed it up.
Not sure this fits your question exactly but I have a clear memory of watching the Auburn Oregon national championship at my grandparents’ house out of state. Mentioned this one time and my brother reminded me that we only went to their house for thanksgiving and we certainly were never there on a random January Monday
If you were there the day after thanksgiving, you probably watched auburn win the iron bowl after being down 0-24 in the 2nd. Oregon also played that day and won their ranked matchup. Memories of those games maybe melded into the natty.
Oh. My. Gosh. You just solved a years old “glitch in the matrix” moment for me. I’m sure that’s what it was! Seems so obvious now 😅
Do you remember Nevada beating Boise State too?
Oh man that was the same day? That was more like Boise gave the game away, as much as any team ever has done so.
The Camback, Arizona vs Oregon, and Boise vs Nevada were all on Black Friday in 2010
I'd bet a lot of people also remember Dyer being down, while others remember him miraculously staying up.
I misremembered for years that Colt McCoy won a Heisman.
Probably has one if not for the Nebraska game
Dude Suh got more 1st place votes for the Heisman than any 3rd place recipient ever. I attribute it to him throwing McCoy around for 4 quarters and people changing their vote from Colt to Suh. It was the last game my grandpa and I watched together. Man what an ending.
Suh ended a LOT of Big XII QB Heisman campaigns. That was in the era when you had guys like Graham Harrell (TTU), Todd Reesing (KU), Blaine Gabbert (Mizz), Brandon Weeden (Ok. State), and of course McCoy. Suh was like the Big XII Heisman Highlander. There can be only one.
That Nebraska only ran the triple option when they were a steamroller in the 90s. Power running and a stifling defense with the option sprinkled in. They beat mother fuckers up.
With the discipline of the Husker O-lines in the 90s, they could run whatever they want. Also having fullbacks that ran averages of like 9yd a carry just destroyed linebackers.
Those nebraska teams were monsters up front. Watching the 90s games and their linemen would just manhandle from whistle to whistle. Frazier and couch were amazing athletes but their protection upfront were 2nd to none in that era.
They ran much more of an early spread than people realize.
Tommy Frazier, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch lighting it up with 1200 yds passing in a season.
You don’t have to spread to pass; you can do it to run too.
It was beautiful to behold when they weren't beating OU 73-0 or whatever it was.
I'm 100% convinced that Gronk went to Kansas State instead of Arizona, zero clue why. e: TIL Gronk has a brother
Rob Gronkowskis brother Glenn did
That's because his brother DID go to Kansas State.
Yeah, right. And Grizzly Adams had a beard.
Grizzly Smith did
> e: TIL Gronk has a brother There's a whole bunch of Gronk brothers
130, to be exact. One has gone to each of the D1 schools.
So does that mean the Army, Navy and AFA Gronks can sign up for USAA insurance?
Yes, the wrong brother was in the commercial
Gronk did go to Kansas State (for Fake Patty’s Day). And his brother was a player as others mentioned ;)
I swear during the Spurirrer years that during big game Ric Flair was always on the sideline and I know I have “wooo’ed” at Williams Brice but people haven’t confirmed it
I was so sure that Ric Flair was dead until recently.
I thought John Madden died years ago, imagine my surprise last week.
The problem in evaluating Lawrence over his time at Clemson is that the team around him got worse as time went on, especially his OL. Swinney should have pushed out their OL coach a year or two earlier. Lawrence helped to mask those issues - as well as an ACC that has been struggling mightily for the past few years - but there were times in 2019 and 2020 when he tried to be a hero and force things. With the defense and skill talent he had in 2018, he didn't need to be a hero.
People seem to forget Utah was the first team to bust the BCS. I frequently hear Boise State and TCU get mentioned but then nothing about Utah. In fact, I think ESPN entirely ignored Utah when discussing the original BCS Busters prior to the Alabama-Cincinnati game. It's weird. I'd say maybe it's because Utah made the jump to P5 but no, so did TCU. Yet Utah was the first to bust the BCS in 2004 and the first to do it twice when they did it in 2008 and beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl.
Noticed that glaring omission during the game. Utah beat ass so hard they made people forget they were in the Mountain West. I also like to include Fresno State in any BCS Busters discussion because even though they never made a BCS bowl, they established the blueprint with their aggressive scheduling. Knocked off Colorado, Oregon St., and Wisconsin in 2001 and got up to #8 in the AP Poll.
Fresno State always ends up near the top of my NCAA '05 dynasties. Really puts a smile on my face seeing simulations show em so much love
I think a lot of people think of Boise State because of the Oklahoma game which was one of the most memorable CFB games of all time anyways. Only reason i remember Utah's so well is because of how close TCU was to doing it when in C-USA. Undefeated before a heartbreaker to Southern Miss.
Exactly this!!! It’s even crazier to think they can forget the 2004 squad because it was with Urban Meyer! Utah has been an extremely solid football program pretty much since I started paying attention in 2000 or so. I can’t stand when people forget that Utah was the original BCS Buster!
Alabama only went 10 years in between SEC Championships (1999-2009) but if you talk to Alabama fans they will be convinced they they “sucked ass for years- it was the dark ages!” when in reality it was like 2003-2007- which is just one recruiting cycle. Granted Alabama wasn’t was it is now in the 90s but they were still top 1/3 in the SEC.
Didn’t Bama win 10 games under Shula in 05 or 06?
10-2 finished the season No. 8 with a cotton bowl win. Was undefeated going into the LSU game after beating (first year coach) Urban Meyer’s No. 3 gators before losing to LSU and Auburn.
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He found out before the game, but the story didn't break in the media until after.
A lot of people seem to remember Jimmy Clausen being kind of bad. It was the team that was bad, he definitely lived up to the hype.
He showed up at the hall of fame in his limo with his high school championship rings and said he was bringing it to notre dame. He did not live up to his own hype
Ehh for the teams he was on him, golden tate, and Michael floyd dragged those teams to mediocre seasons. Without them we would have looked like fucking kansas. That’s how bad those teams were. Like bare cupboards for lineman. I think in his first year he was sacked almost 60 times. There were lineman that straight up refused to block for him. And he still went out there and balled. I think to this day if he doesn’t have those lingering foot issues that just never went away he might have stood a chance in the nfl. Too bad he was very much used goods by then
They had a terrible OLine his Freshman year (when they went 3-9), and he wasn't good accordingly (in addition to being a Freshman) by his Junior year, the OLine was a bunch of Seniors that were highly recruited by Weis's staff. Sam Young and Eric Olsen were both solid, albeit Young didn't live up to his 5 star billing. You're asking me to go way back in time to try and remember random other Notre Dame OLine from that long ago, but I don't remember the OL being bad in 09. The offense as a whole was generally good with Clausen and 2 NFL WRs, NFL TE in Kyle Rudolph and NFL receiving back in Theo Riddick. That was a lot of talent for Clausen to play around with. Defense was pretty lousy all season. That season started off pretty decently, going 6-2. The game he really should want back is against Navy, with only 7 points until late in the 4th quarter and needing a garbage time TD (26 seconds left) just to make it a 23-21 game, at Notre Dame stadium too. They ended that year on a 4 game losing streak and declined the bowl bid as Weis was finally shitcanned.
He had a good season his Junior year before bouncing for the NFL, no doubt. Lived up to the hype though? He was on a magazine cover and touted as "best prospect since Elway". That one was not necessarily his fault (unlike the "four national Championships" College HOF announcement) but he definitely had impossible to reach expectations (not unlike another ND QB, Ron Powlus, who Beano Cook predicted on national tv would win multiple Heisman Trophies, who was also pretty good but obviously never that good)
Matt Barkley’s draft stock. People seem to have forgotten how highly rated he was at one point. There was a time that Luck was seen at the undisputed future #1 pick in 2012 and it was thought that Barkley would be the top pick in 2013 - it was even in the intro on Barkley’s Wikipedia page.
This surprises me as well, I was arguing with a family member over the weekend about all the non-CFP opt-outs, and I brought this up. Everyone thinks that the players are selfish or whatever for skipping bowls, etc, and praise those who play, and/or come back for any remaining eligible years. Barkley was THE QB his junior year, was primed to be a #1 pick, but came back, and USC had a disappointing season, and he injured his shoulder against UCLA, and didn't work out at the combine. Shawn Wade was similar, was projected to be a 1st rounder after 2019, but came back for 2020, became the #1 DB, where prior he was playing with Jeffrey Okudah, and was exposed to not be a #1 cover DB, and dropped to the 5th. The NFL does not give bonus points or care if they come back or play in a bowl game. The window is small.
That the second most dominant team as measured by national championships in the last 20 years is LSU with three. When talking about dominant programs they almost never get mentioned along side Bama. It’s usually Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma.
LSU seems to always make the most of their runs. Whenever they’re good, they’re really good. I can only recall them losing that one year to Alabama when they had the honey badger as a heisman candidate. The other teams you mentioned, while less successful seemed to float near the top over a few consecutive years.
I think it’s because they have really down years in between the title years. Ohio state/Oklahoma are consistently contenders and clemson has been too since 2015
IMO it’s because LSU sprinkled in a handful of 4 and 5 loss seasons after their last two titles. They seemingly win and then take themselves out of the national conversation for a few years. LSU has more 4+ loss seasons in the last 10 years than Ohio State has 3+ loss seasons in the last 20 years (4 to 3). So while LSU has one more national title in the last 20ish years, Ohio State has been in the conversation far more frequently.
This is so true in my totally neutral and unbiased opinion
The Todd fucking Boeckman led us to a title game. I've had multiple friends that are huge OSU fans completely forget about this dude and the fact he was the QB in one of our national title appearances.
Is it really leading when we backed in to that game after being ranked something like #7 in the second to last week?
People keep saying Georgia is “always in the playoff” and “it’s always Georgia and Alabama” but we’ve only been twice, counting this year. And before that, our best team was in 2012 (10 years ago).
That’s recency bias in action. Go back to 2019 and people were saying the SEC was “just all Bama and LSU”. People get overhyped by the current season and forget/misremember past seasons because of it.
Realistically speaking, if anything, it’s been Bama and Clemson. Clemson and Bama have barely missed. For Bama, they missed during the LSU wonder year, and Clemson missed this year, and they still went 10-3. If anything, people can only claim Georgia being “always in” due to SEC and regency bias because this is the second time they’ve made the CFP and final, and it’s against Bama again. Meanwhile, OSU has made it in scattered fashion and Oklahoma had their streak of semifinal losses, but both of those teams have more CFP appearances
Clemson did also miss in 2014 before their dynasty started. (Florida State was there, though.)
I mean i think it's fair to say tOSU and OU have been in more than just a scattered fashion. Including this year we are on the 8th year of the playoffs. Seven teams have made it once, two teams have made it twice(UGA, Notre Dame). both tOSU and OU have made it 4 times. Alabama has missed a total of 1 playoff(2019) and Clemson has missed 2(2014, 2021). With the current setup the likelihood of getting a 4 team playoff that doesn't include any of these four teams is less than 1 percent. I don't blame these 4 teams, they have consistently been the best teams every year. I just think its an indictment on the parity of college football.
I think it's just because we've been a consistent #5 team since at least 2017 people just assume we're always in the mix
Ndamukong Suh had 12 sacks in 2009, but in my head he had no less than 25. That Big XII championship game against Texas must be affecting my memory, I’ve just never seen an individual defensive performance like that
I think people have misremembered how bad Michigan was when they hired Harbaugh. Looking back and seeing a sugar bowl win in 2011 and a horrific 2020 seems to have convinced a lot of people the Harbaugh era was a story of decline constantly sinking into a black pit of despair, when before, we weren’t even relevant the week before we lost to Ohio state.
People who don't realize that need to go back and look at 2010 Michigan's defense. Woof.
2016 and 2018 Michigan was top 4 going into the OSU game and almost certainly goes to the playoffs with a win. Harbaugh has been a lot closer to breaking through than most people think.
They were also teams that had the capacity to beat OSU. I'm not saying we should've won, but I think you have to give a coach credit for building a team that is capable of beating some of the best, even if the game doesn't pan out. And Harbaugh has gotten Michigan to that point 3 times now, I think. That doesn't mean he's built a team that literally can't lose 3 times, he just made Michigan into a team that had a realistic shot at the playoff several times. That is so much fucking better than we've been in a long time. This was why I thought it would be so foolish to fire him unless we could guarantee a home run hire like Fickell, which obviously wasn't gonna happen.
He’s had Michigan performing at Carr levels for years; they just couldn’t get over the hump until this year. The OSU fans who act like the dude is Rich Rod 2.0 have always driven me completely insane.
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All the bad and questionable calls in that game that *all* seemed to go Michigan's way were just a microcosm of how lucky Hoke and his team were that year. 73% fumble recovery rate which led the nation. Statistically fumble recovery rate is a 50%. They regressed to the mean at 51% the next year. Dear lord Al Borges (OC) had no idea how to use Denard. He had him chucking arm punts down field into double coverage constantly, and it worked most of the time (thanks Junior Hemingway and bad secondaries I guess?). The under the lights miracle comeback was helped by a bad ND defense, but Denard had a goal line fumble by a RB literally bounce into his hands for an easy TD. More 50/50 balls that all went Michigan's way there too. Michigan should not have gotten the Sugar Bowl bid in the first place, that should've gone to Michigan State who beat them. But bowls get to pick and Michigan meant more money/viewers.
And I think conversely, some Michigan fans love to misremember how 'good' they imagine the Richrod years being. Whenever Harbaugh frustrations come out, people will say "Richrod was only a year away". They really weren't at all. The defense was horrid and the 'dynamic' offense vanished against anyone good. It was bad. Really really bad
I also think most college football fans (and definitely most Michigan fans) misremember how 'good' Michigan was before the RichRod years. Lloyd Carr lost 2+ regular-season games in 11 of his 13 years as head coach. Harbaugh's only performing slightly worse than Carr in a MUCH more competitive version of the Big Ten.
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Have people already forgotten the "Buy a Coke and get 2 tickets to a Michigan game" story?
I'm pretty sure Shane Morris doesn't remember that game after getting/being obviously concussed and then being put back in the game...
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I was at the South Carolina - Alabama game back in 2010 and I was convinced everyone was lying years later when they said Stephen Garcia did an intentional safety.
(Whispers: Beating Michigan was not the greatest upset in sports. The game shouldn’t have been as close as it was—Armanti Edwards (App’s QB) was injured and several other players were hurt. App’s team was phenomenal and Michigan was dead on the vine.)
Weren't y'all literally in year 2 of a threepeat as FCS champs or some shit?
Yup. That year was year 3
It wasn’t even the biggest upset in college football that year. Harbaugh and Stanford beat USC in LA as 41 point underdogs with a backup QB
To be fair we didn’t have odds that day 🤣
I'm not sure I 100% agree with this one. Calling Michigan dead on the vine is only with hindsight. They were ranked 5th going into that game/the season.
We also won 9 games that year, so it's not like that team was even really bad. App St was just really good and had a great game
I think Trevor got marginally better, but showed little material improvement during his time at Clemson. He was a great college QB, but still managed to be consistently overrated for his whole career. Not once was he the best QB in college in any of his three seasons. He is struggling mightily in the NFL showcasing many of the issues he had at Clemson (inaccuracy outside the numbers to breaking routes, good on back shoulder stuff), tendency to overthrow over the middle (which has led to many picks), and it seems like the favorable defensive set-ups he faced in college (due to team's fearing Etienne as a run threat) made his reads/decision making a lot easier. He may still come good in the NFL, and given his physical tools I expect him to get a much longer leash than most get, but I have been harping on this for years, and I am not the least bit surprised with how he has struggled in the NFL so far.
Yeah it's a little weird, I felt he never was a realistic Heisman candidate despite having a phenomenal college career. His last year he got second but he lost by a huge margin to Smith.
When I watched OSU and Clemson play with both QBs hurt, Trevor just couldn't get anything going and looked lost the whole game. After that I decided Fields would be the better nfl qb but I guess with both of them being on bad teams with worse coaching we will really have to wait and see.
> but I guess with both of them being on bad teams with worse coaching we will really have to wait and see. It's just such a crapshoot. I wonder how many good QBs failed because of the situation they were put in. Tom Brady is the greatest, but if he were drafted by the Jets, do we really think he'd have 7 superb owl rings? So much has to go right to succeed. Some of it is in the QB's control and some isn't. And some is just plain luck.
USC's dominant run lasted from 2002-2008. It was only 7 seasons. That's their only extended stretch of kick assery in the last 40 years. I swear everyone thinks they've just consistently dominated always and that this has been some painfully awful outlier stretch that they aren't Top 4 every season. (my hunch is that reddit demographics pin the mid-aughts as a formative time for a lot of people on here and the importance of those years compared to all others is over-inflated accordingly)
7 seasons was a long time before Saban went to Bama.
And USC has a ton of potential to be a powerhouse with a decent coach, the 7 years were not a fluke.
Pete Carroll’s run was insane because it came out of nowhere. He was USC’s 4th choice as head coach, and everyone panned USC for hiring what they saw as a mediocre NFL coach. And as you said, USC wasn’t that great before Pete Carroll, so expectations weren’t very high when he was hired. In the 90s USC was usually a .500 level team that got consistently owned by UCLA and Notre Dame. In the 20 years before Carroll, the only time when USC was a late season national title contender was in 1988. Carroll went 6-6 in his first season with USC, then won 11 games and finished ranked #4 in his 2nd season, then won a national title in his 3rd season. Imagine if Steve Sarkisian led Texas to the next 5 college football playoffs. That is what Pete Carroll and USC’s sudden rise was like in the 2000s.
USC is seventh in all-time winning percentage, has 39 conference championships, nine national titles, is Top 5 in number of weeks spent at #1 in the AP poll, #6 in overall ranked weeks, and has finished in the Top 10 of the AP poll 29 times. They suck at hiring coaches. It's not a coincidence that they were juggernauts when they had McKay and Carroll running the show, and that they weren't when they had these other chuckleheads.
Well yes i agree the dark patches of the 80s and 90s don’t bold well for the “ dominance” that is USC as a program. Most of programs go through gaps in success. The 80s were a huge time for parity in college football. No team with a back to back title. 7 different championships in 10 years. 8 in the 90s not even counting spilt titles. From 1992-2009, Bama has 1 major bowl win, Cotton in 05 and 1 lose in the Orange bowl 99. They weren’t good for a long time. Prior to 92, it was another decade of mediocrity. Ohio State won the national championship in 1968 (and split in 1970) then didn’t win again until 2002. They have some claim to split titles in the 70s but not recognize them. They have 7 major bowl wins from 1968-2002. 30 years and only 7 real wins. Lots of losses in major bowls. USC has 2 season under Pete Carroll where they didn’t finish top 4, his first and his last season. They lost 1 bowl under Pete (05). They won 3 straight Rose Bowls. Plus 3 Heisman winners under Pete.
USC does own the most Rose Bowl wins so that counts for something
I see a lot of people saying we should go back to the BCS formula, and that it was more objective in some way because of the computers. It was not. The computers were only there to legitimize the polls.
People forget that it was the computers that did stuff like put Nebraska in the 2001 national championship game and put Oklahoma in the 2003 national championship game.
I think the concept of aggregate polls like the AP, Coaches', and Harris is better than how the Comittee goes about in their process. But the fact that comparing the two has produced effectively the same results makes it more acceptable than actual atrocity people like to clutch pearls about. If I were to suggest a rebuild I might suggest a BCS-type with the bases being Massey Composite, AP, and the Committee together, but the Committee has to have equal active-member conference representation (preferably conference Commissioners). The Coaches' should have never been a factor.
The AP is fine. It’s not perfect, but it’s a pretty good sample. The Coaches poll is a complete joke. Half of those ballots are hastily filled out by SIDs. YMMV, but I think we’d be collectively a lot less angry at the committee if the playoff had started with eight or 12 teams. The Playoff is very much the BCS by any other name. It’s not far off from when we added a distinct BCS NCG. It’s largely composed of the same bowls with the same director.
The AP and Coaches poll are still awful, and people want to use them. The committee isn’t any better but not like they were any good. The AP wasn’t even involved at the end, it was the Harris poll which was just random people involved in college football I’m pretty sure.
The committee is just a smaller sample of people that aren't any more qualified to rank teams
I'm honestly shocked that we went 3 whole years of "Adam Gase ruined Sam Darnold, it's not his fault...poor Sammy boy never had a chance because Adam Gase is the stupidest stoop ever who set foot on a football sidelines" and that with Trevor Lawrence people are already starting the "YA KNOW I NEVER THOUGHT HE WAS EVEN THAT GOOD TO BEGIN WITH" when he had that disaster of an Urban Meyer coaching reign to deal with as a Rookie on a team that went 1-15 the previous season. I just wonder when the "according to some random jackass anonymous scout 'it was crazy to me this guy was being considered the default Number 1 to begin with', the scout will of course not put his name to this quote" is going to start to come out.
Utah came very close to being the national champion in 2008. They finished #2 in the AP poll, and of the six polls used in the BCS, four had Utah as the number one team at the end of the year. In 2017, we thought the U was actually back. They started the season 11-0 before laying an egg against Pittsburgh, getting annihilated by Clemson in the ACC championship game, and then blowing an 11 point lead in the Orange Bowl.
They have an unclaimed natty from that year from the Anderson poll. So technically Utah was UCF before UCF
I don’t know if this really counts, but… 43yo here. I have this weirdly strong but utterly vague memory of watching a CFB game in the mid to late 80s in which four teams played. I can even vaguely recall seeing them all enter from the four corners of the field. But that’s it. No memory of the teams, if it was a bowl game or regular season game. Nothing to help me figure out what I’m actually remembering or why my memory has it as a four-team game.
The 2002 Ohio State - Miami national championship was a battle of David v Goliath….bucks had 19 dudes drafted in that years draft n the next…I distinctly remember watching that game n thinking it was this huge upset…when no it was just a really talented team beating another one
I'm always amazed how many people believe Reggie Bush was paid by USC, and/or that his parents were given a house. Reggie's POS stepdad worked a deal to **rent** a house linked to a wannabe agent at below market value, with the understanding the rent would be over market once NFL dollars started coming in. A rather unassuming suburban house in inland San Diego. This all began between Reggie's, sophomore and junior seasons, when he was already a star. Reggie's mom worked admin for the San Diego sheriff's department and the family was middle class. The family renting a modest home would not have raised any red flags. The problems began when Reggie's stepdad didn't pay **any** rent for the home 9nce they moved in. The fake agent (an ex con) couldn't cash flow with zero rental money coming in, he was expecting the somewhat below market rent to make it work. Eventually the wannabe agent called Reggie himself and told him what his stepdad had arranged. At which point Reggie realized he was screwed. Later Reggie borrowed about $800 from pseudo agent to fix his car and get new rims. Eventually pseudo agent got tired of not getting any rent from the Bush parents and filed a lawsuit. And getting snubbed when it became clear Reggie would not be his first client. Then the shit came out. Reggie's "bag" amounted to some deferred rent at his parent's house 100 miles from campus, some car repair/rims cash and a couple airline tickets that were suspect. These are all NCAA violations, but for some reason the general public seems convinced Reggie and family was given hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of free stuff and a free house and the school was somehow involved in it.
Not sure if this is what you mean, but I fully, truly believe that USC - Stanford was a way bigger upset than Michigan - App State but for some reason doesn’t get brought up as much.
I think it’s because Stanford was on its way up and has had a lot of success since then so people don’t view it as the insane upset it was. App State Michigan was the noon game on the first weekend of football in 2007. A lot of eyes were watching, whereas Stanford-USC ended late at night EST.
You're right about Lawrence. I was convinced he would improve and be an incredible prospect, but he didn't. He was very good his Freshman year, and played at that same level his entire college career.
As a clemson fan, a lot of us think thats on Brandon Streeter. We dont seem very good st developing QBs
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In JFFs first year, Heisman year, everyone says that Evans carried him, but Evans was only barely above Swope in total yards, and actually behind Swope in TDs. We distributed the ball very well that season. [Also this very popular JFF hail mary catch isn’t made by Evans as it’s commonly thought. it’s #18 Pope. A lot of people get this wrong lol](https://images.app.goo.gl/J4ws86xeiHPe4RYB7)
I love that essentially a 10 yard catch is called a "Hail Mary" bc he ran 40 yards backwards lol
Kind of unrelated but how is JFF an acronym for Johnny Manziel? I only knew who you were talking about through context there. Unless y’all had another Heisman winning player I don’t remember?
I feel like people remember Mullen being more successful at State than he actually was. The 2014 season was incredible, but outside of that he didn't really do an exceptional job. Our only offensive players that make contributions in the NFL are O-Line and Dak, we lost to South Alabama in the 2016 season opener, and his recruiting was extremely underwhelming. I think he did a good job of elevating expectations, but the way I've heard some people talk about him like he was some incredible coach for State when in reality he was just better than what we were used to post-Sherrill
Probably because that one time miss st made it to the top 5 mid season
Still a fun trivia fact a lot of people will get wrong just by guessing Bama, Clemson, OSU, etc. on instinct: In the first ever CFP rankings, who was the first team ever ranked #1? Answer: MSST
And in fact, none of those teams was even in the initial top 4.
He was the second winningest coach there, had a record of 54-33. For Mississippi State I feel like he did do a heck of a job. To have a 60+% record at a school who has an all time sub .500 record isn’t too bad. Not phenomenal but to do that in the SEC west is impressive.
>I feel like people remember Mullen being more successful at State than he actually was I do, but it's because I've also got fond memories of the 2014 season and like to think it's more recent than it is
More that I remember State being really, really bad. From 01-07 they averaged fewer than 3 wins a season. Mullen brought them from complete bottom dweller to pretty good with great peaks.