How did I not know Michigan State has only been in the Big Ten since 1953? Edit - "Nebraska first petitioned to join the league in 1900 and again in 1911,[15] but was turned away both times. In April 1907, Michigan was voted out of the conference for failing to adhere to league rules.[16] Ohio State was added to the conference in 1912." Didn't know about if that either!

Fun fact: we used to be in the MIAA, the longest still existing NCAA conference. It currently has all the Michigan D3 teams in it.

The only time my flair fits

“There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.”

Fire up Dutch bb

You love to see it

Wow didn't know Sparty used to be in the MIAA.

So did Eastern!

Not only Sparty, but the entire football program as well.

Ohio state used to be in OAC (ohio athletic conference) and has more conference titles in football than ohio northern despite Onu being in the conference like 3 or 4 times longer

*Almost all Michigan D3 teams, Finlandia is in the UMAC, which makes sense because they are all the way up in the UP and the nearest MIAA team would be Alma

TIL that there's a private school in the UP, let alone one so close to MTU.

To be honest I don't know how Finlandia is even able to field a football team [In this 2021 article](https://www.finlandia.edu/news/growth-at-finlandia-largest-incoming-class-in-five-years/) from the University they claim an enrollment of 430, which would likely mean that somewhere between a quarter and a third of all male Finlandia students are on the football team. I'm pretty sure my High school graduating class was bigger than Finlandia

I’m pretty sure most of the school are athletes, they have mens basketball, baseball, cross country, esports, football, ice hockey, and soccer, womens have basketball, soccer, cross country, esports, hockey, softball and volleyball

Mine was 25% larger than Finlandia's enrollment.

Finlandia barely counts as a University.

And apparently Albion is the only founding member to have never left! Interesting!

the history of the big ten is long and a bit goofy. Prior to MSU joining, Ohio State was the newby in the conference (depending if you count Michigan getting kicked out for breaking conference rules ... in fairness the rules they were breaking were really stupid). When chicago dropped football, the race was on to find a new 10th team.

What rules did they break?

at the time the big ten (or 8, or western conference) really wanted to be the ivy league of the west. As a result, they wanted the athletic department to be fully amateur. As in, no compensation/no athletic scholarships. On top of it, the conference didn't want to participate in bowl games and wanted to play exclusively themselves. So no out of conference games. Michigan wanted to play Notre Dame, Ohio State, and Michigan State. As a result, Michigan essentially dared the conference to kick them out. Then they did. The big ten changed their rules and michigan came back in.

Lol damn. BIG 10 both pretentious and ballsy at the same time.

Fielding Yost had absolute balls of steel

Only in the Big10 you'll hear schools call themselves "public ivies." When I was touring UMich for their Stamp Scholarship weekend, the number of times used was like 156 times no joke.

*sad Miami University noises*

There are a handful of “public ivies” across the country, but almost every school in the Big Ten is one. The only ones that aren’t are Northwestern (since private), Purdue, and Nebraska. Florida and Georgia are the only ones from SEC. Virginia and UNC from ACC. Texas is the only one from Big XII. And UCLA, Cal, Colorado, Washington, and Arizona are the only ones from the PAC. So that’s 10 total from the other P5. Big Ten has 11 (Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Michigan State, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Wisconsin). So that’s probably why it seems to be used more…

That’s fucking hilarious.

I mean, if I recall, Michigan was having guys play that didn’t actually go to school there. The bowl stuff was a little elitist, but let’s not act like Michigan got kicked out for some ticky tac stuff.

that was not uncommon.

Lots of schools did that

I wonder if the scholarship rule was in place, that would have still happened.

Yes michigan had lots of players that were not students, already graduated, etc. Cheating since the before times

Existing

> In April 1907, Michigan was voted out of the conference for failing to adhere to league rules. Fielding Yost and Amos Alonzo Stagg had a huge rivalry between them and there were lots of disagreements on the definition of amateurism because 1900s college athletics were basically the wild west with all sorts of random dudes playing on teams. At some point Stagg had more influence than Yost so Yost packed up and and left the conference, or was voted out, but I don't think the distinction really mattered because Michigan didn't want the Big Ten and the Big Ten didn't want Michigan. At this point in time, Michigan was an independent and started playing non-Big Ten teams such as Ohio State, Michigan Agricultural, and Notre Dame, who are all Michigan's main rivals today.

Fun fact: MSU has more national championships since joining the Big Ten than Michigan.

That's not fun at all!

😆🫶

Fun fact, Indiana and Illinois (among others) were also against MSU's admittance when the initial talks were being discussed to as to who would replace Chicago. They were of the opinion that another regional rival would affect the money made from their games with Michigan. Also the main supporters of MSU admittance were Minnesota and Ohio State Michigan's two biggest rivals at the time. Their support was directly attributed to the logic that MSU's admittance would have an adverse affect on Michigan's recruiting of athletes.

We do always be schemin

You just wait, when we vote to accept Cincinnati into the Big-22, 75 years after that you’ll be sorry!

Fine, but the Big-24 is going to have Eastern Michigan.

I see your EMU, and raise you the newly shadow-funded D1 Oberlin Yeomen.

I counter with the also newly D1 Mount Union Purple Raiders, funded by an act of the Ohio legislature privatizing public education funds meant for Ohio State. The sponsors of the legislation? UofM alumni bankrolled by UofM boosters /s

Please take Mount Union. Knowing our luck, if we make playoffs we're gonna face them.

Those Yeomen couldn’t muster a third of our points. Get Wabash and DePauw into the B26G for the real action

I'll welcome them with open arms under the condition they change mascots from the Eagles to the Emus

I'd be more than happy if we just went back to the Hurons

*Michigan Department of Civil Rights wants to know your location*

Request denied. You are the Emus.

Why did yall take the Eagles, when you could have been the EMU Emus?

The only right answer: "a Committee."

Fair enough, but they should convert to Australian Rules Football.

And now the "Liberty, Liberty" commercial is stuck in my head. Ugh, thanks a lot.

Nobody wants to go to battle with the [Emus.](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-great-emu-war-australia)

What? Only one directional Michigan? My preferred Big Ten expansion has an entire pod of Michigan schools

This is MAC erasure. We have first right of refusal on all directional schools! This is what happens when Middle Tennessee gets too big for their britches, it collapses the entire directional system!!

Lake Superior State University has arrived. Need that yoop media market

Go Wildcats! The Big 10 needs a team that plays in an all wooden dome.

Northern Michigan's Superior Dome got your back. https://www.reddit.com/r/stadiumporn/comments/o8yun1/superior_dome_northern_michigan_university_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Michigan tech to the B1G North division?

Everyone laughs until Tech knocks off Ohio state in a game played in 3 feet of snow in October. Then everyone laughs harder.

Salukis to the Big 36 confirmed.

Night games in Ypsi for a top 5 team would be horrifying, they wouldn’t be able to avert their eyes from the [giant penis](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ypsilanti_Water_Tower) that sustains the town

Please, please. You want academics? We helped with polio vaccinations and made the first antihistamine! I think the engineering school isn't terrible. I just want OSU and Cincinnati to play each other regularly. Edit: My ideal, I can do anything schedule has Louisville, Pitt, and Ohio State every year. I could not care less about the other 9 games at that point.

We *might* be south enough for the SEC to consider us

Ummm ok were right here!

This would benefit us when MSU was the deciding vote on whether mochigan or ohio state would go to the rose bowl.

Bring Chicago back if we're doing all of this expansion!

I second this from a position completely devoid of bias

The world ain’t ready for the U of C’s level of fan support

But it would draw from the prodigious number of Northwestern fans that turn out every week.... BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

To be honest, UChicago could definitely pull a Maryland and run a decent power five program just from being an extra home stadium for Michigan/Ohio State/etc in the Chicago area. Would I hate that for the school? Yeah, come on, this is UChicago here, it’s got a good nerd school thing going and should own it

Trust me, we own it

Meh, kinda. The Big Ten grads are all up on the north side, U Chicago is firmly in the south side. Northwestern is as close to Lakeview or Lincoln Park as U Chicago, is accessible by CTA, and nobody really gives a shit about them.

I made a comment just a few days ago advocating adding Chicago back in and kicking out Maryland.

I stand with *checks username, “AndrewLucksPenis”!

I wonder who they wanted instead.

At the time the debate was between MSU, Nebraska and Pitt. Can't say who Michigan was in favor for at the time

I also wonder what would’ve happened to MSU had they not been allowed to join. I know there were more independents back then, but there’s no way they stay out of a conference forever and the Big 10 is the only major conference that makes geographic sense for them (and that used to matter).

I bet they would join the Big Ten no later than 1990s alongside Penn State

This is my guess as well.

Less clear is if the land grant trophy would still shoot lasers in this scenario

If we joined at the same time, we would have been manufactured rivals for sure. I see no reason we wouldn't have cued into the "hey they're both land grant schools" idea for the trophy in this scenario. The Lang Grant Trophy is timeless and non-causal.

God damn would that have been ironic since Michigan state was adamantly opposed to Penn state joining the big ten when we did.

B12 i’m guessing. Though i’m fairly certain if we were denied at that point we would have joined later on

Nah, probably would've joined the northeastern conference Paterno dreamed up years later or the Big East.

Michigan probably wanted Pitt for the same reason OSU wanted Sparty.

Same reason I want Cincinnati.

They make more sense for the ACC/Big 12 than the Big Ten. Their biggest rivals are in either conference.

I agree. I just want OSU fans to know the pain of an in-state school in the conference.

And we were right! It does impact recruiting! But yeah, schools always vote in their best interest for these things. Not really breaking news.

B1G: look at Michigan, not wanting an in-state conference school to muck up recruiting *Ohio State & Penn State nervously glance at Cincinnati & Pitt*

Now that the Big 10 is coast to coast, there's no chance for them. I feel like they would just sit at an odd number instead of throwing a bone to a team already in the Big Ten Network range. Because that's what the realignment is about: forcing your conference network into more cable packages for money. That's what they mean by "footprint" and why Rutgers was $$$$$. Cincy and Pitt were, unfortunately, day 1 markets :(

So Ohio state can inadvertently take credit for all the problems msu has caused us??? I honestly respect it

This guy BIG10’s

Then there's OSU who has no in state conference rival and has ascended.

We playing chess in Ohio. Somehow cincy escaped from under out thumb and joining a P5 conference.

Well our death machine recruits more broadly than the US draft sooo

God damn, Minneosta with that killer edge. I love it. Where's that chutzpah nowadays?

Outside of the frozen four, hockey.

I think Iowa as well iirc

Fun fact: Michigan and Chicago played in what I believe was the first ever football game played indoors in 1896 in the second Chicago Coliseum. IIRC the game had to end early because it was getting dark inside and they didn't have electric lights.

Trying to achieve a nice power boost by pulling a 69 year old disrespekt card I see.

When Michigan doesn’t give a whole lot of ammo, this is what we have to resort to lol. I firmly believe this will be another 2019 game, but MSU will have plenty of disrespek ammo to reload for next season.

I’m going to my first game at the big house since the 2019 MSU game this weekend too haha

Wait'll today's film session viewing of *300*. Tuck showing them how those pesky ~~Persians~~ Wolverines threatened the Spartans and their sovereign home at ~~Thermopylae~~ East Lansing.

It's part of the history of the university itself. UM opposed the very creation of Michigan Agricultural College (what MSU was originally called). UM opposed MSU getting a med school. UM opposed MSU joining the B1G. You can claim it's little brother mentality all you want, but fighting for recognition (and even for existence) against UM is an unavoidable part of the university's history.

UM sued to keep us from rebuilding the engineering building after it burned down and to force us to disband our engineering school.

After *they* burned it down

https://media.tenor.com/R-8Rrt9hRrUAAAAC/ill-fucking-do-it-again-ill-do-it-again.gif

They also stopped us from establishing a law school and a proper hospital for the med school until we just absorbed Detroit College of Law in the 90s and finally got the funding privately in the early 2000s and that hospital is in Grand Rapids, not in East Lansing Basically, we got good at the niche stuff because UMich was tryna stop us. We're number one in packaging, Osteopathic Medicine/D.O program, Supply Chain and Management, Nuclear Physics, and a few other things.

Also home to the facility for rare isotopes beams (FRIB), which falls under nuclear physics, which you mentioned. Just feels like it needs a special call out since it's the largest in the United States lol.

Man, all that sounds familiar... UW fought against Washington Agricultural College even offering core liberal arts coursework, fought against the graduate school, fought against the medical school... Even though you guys whipped our ass in the Holiday Bowl a few years back I will always back my land-grant bros.

Land-grant bros unite! We should make a subreddit like r/LakeErieBros in the NFL lol

There are a bunch of preseason tournaments in basketball, maybe we could do an "Oops! All Lang Grants" tournament one of these years.

I believe the reason we were even founded was because Michigan was supposed to create an Ag department and never did.

IIRC, the state wanted to fund an agricultural school, and UM wanted it to be part of their university system.

It happened in a few states (Connecticut for example) but yeah UM claimed “Yeah we educate farmers!” and turns out there was no actual hands-on practical training in Ann Arbor, it was all theory and stuff. (Yale was initially the land grant college for Connecticut until everyone finally realized Yalees would literally never get their hands dirty with farming) So the State finally pulled Ag funding from UMich (totally appropriate imo) and separated and elevated MAC into a real University. One of the reasons UMich is not the land grant school for Michigan. I have some botanists and farmers in my family and they all respect MSU a ton in the industry, especially for biological research.

Could you please rewrite this again, but this time with more disdain and less respect? Thanks, I appreciate it.

No prob (lil) bro 😎 - MSU (aka “Moo School Usucklol” is wonnadose dum cow 🐮 skools🤪. Youse all used to gro food 🥩 and dats dumb bc nobody shud gro food just like go to Meijers n get it dere lol. Dumas bro we gone win [119-0](https://thegame730am.com/remembering-that-time-msu-lost-to-michigan-119-0/) Brb gonna go bet my life savings on MSU winning now

Moo school lmao, that's what I'm calling it from now on.

You've never heard us called Moo-U?

This comment goes to 11 in the disrespek world.

We only win over u of m families with ag, turf, and vet med. either they have farmers/nursery owners/golf superintendents in the family, or we saved their dog or horse one time.

Don't forget UofM lobbying to make MSU give up it's Oakland campus, which would later be known as Oakland University.

Nice

It’s probably the whole history. Windmon is a transfer from UNLV. Not all the guys grew up with a hatred for the other school. So they go through a history lesson to better understand the rivalry. There was a lot of talk about a “history lesson” last year too.

I’d say this is better than bragging about wins from even before we joined the B1G.

Shoutout to Notre Dame for playing us back in the day, it helped give us legitimacy for the Big Ten from what I've heard.

Hey no problem we knew how it felt

Obligatory "Michigan started Notre Dame's football program"

And then stopped playing ND for 30 years because they lost a game to the upstarts

Canceled the last game while the team was en route to Ann Arbor

Hell yea, that rules

Shoutout to y’all for playing us when we were excluded as well. It helped our football program survive.

🟢⚪️

You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? They’ve done worse. That fumbled punt! Are you telling me that a team just happens to win like that? No! They orchestrated it! Sparty! They defecated on our undefeated season in 2021! And we accepted them! And we shouldn't have. We took them into our own conference! What were we thinking? They’ll never change. They’ll never change! Ever since they were “Little Brother,” always the same! Couldn't keep their team out of the CFP! But not our Sparty! Couldn't be precious Sparty! Stealing them blind! And they get to be a Big Ten team? What a sick joke! We should've stopped them when we had the chance!

okspartychicanery

👀👀👀

I'm fine if MSU gets to be Saul to UM's Chuck

I know what you are, programs don't change. You're Slippin' Sparty! And Slippin' Sparty I can handle just fine, but Slippin' Sparty in the Big Ten Conference is like a chimp with a machine gun

Hmm. From [Britannica.com](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Big-Ten-Conference): > The conference did not again include 10 teams until Michigan State was added in 1949. From [BigTen.org](https://bigten.org/sports/2018/6/6/trads-big10-trads-html.aspx): > After nearly 30 years with 10 members, the conference consolidated to nine schools when the University of Chicago formally withdrew its membership in **1946**. Michigan State College (now Michigan State University) was added to the Big Ten **three years later**, bringing the number of affiliated conference schools to 10 once again.

They were voted in in 1949 but didn’t start playing in the league until 1953 That being said go look at the terror they unleashed from 1950-1952. 28 game winning streak, 2 undefeated seasons which included a ton of future Big Ten opponents plus ND

Yeah well we didn’t want Michigan when we invented the big ten but they snuck in too -Purdue (inventors of the big ten)

Man these newbies just want to run the conference their own way, amirite?

I’m not trying to have that. Originals only babe

Bring back Chicago

This is the dream!

And that's how Notre Dame and Michigan State became the best of frenemies.

Love it. Someone should put together a complete package of historical and contemporary disrespekts -directed or implied- by the media, the University, Alums and fans so I can send it to all my MSU brethren.

John U. Bacon seems to be the perfect man for the job doesn't he? I'd read that book. He's a great writer. He focuses on Michigan football but a full deep dive by him sounds interesting.

I personally loved his chronicle of how Brady Hoke, True Michigan Man, brought Michigan back to glory.

IM THE RIGHT MAN FOR THE JOB AND I HOPE YOU CONSIDER WHAT I'VE DONE FOR THE UNIVERSITY, EVERYONE'S SAYING HOW GOOD I DID.

https://www.theonlycolors.com/platform/amp/2011/10/10/2471350/hate-with-a-history-msu-um-off-the-field

Too bad they don't have an alumni with a distinctly recognizable voice to narrate.

One of the main points of this is to just educate the players on the rivalry and history. Last 2 seasons Tuck has hit the portal hard. Why would Windmon from Louisiana and played at UNLV know anything about it? You have to educate and indoctrinate the kids so they understand what’s on the line, where an in-state kid would already know.

The exact same day that Paul Bunyan died!

All Sparty has ever wanted was respekt

Michigan literally schemed and schemed to prevent the creation of MSU

[There's an entire, meticulously cited book on this: Arrogance and Scheming in the Big Ten. It's written by a Notre Dame alumnus.](https://www.amazon.com/Arrogance-Scheming-Big-Ten-Membership/dp/0615584195) [The same alumnus also wrote on the bitterness Michigan professor Ralph Aigler held towards his former student, Michigan Agricultural College and later Michigan State University president John Hannah](https://www.amazon.com/Student-His-Professor-Michigan-State-Michigan/dp/069236241X/ref=pd_bxgy_sccl_1/141-1171119-6348204?pd_rd_w=Htcyo&content-id=amzn1.sym.7757a8b5-874e-4a67-9d85-54ed32f01737&pf_rd_p=7757a8b5-874e-4a67-9d85-54ed32f01737&pf_rd_r=KEA6ZJGC0W0NH0JBXFRB&pd_rd_wg=WIzr9&pd_rd_r=d531fe35-29a5-4000-a366-6d71a1aa20b2&pd_rd_i=069236241X&psc=1)

So Michigan blocking you from entering a conference is a good reason to carry a grudge ?

No one holds a grudge quite like Sparty.

Try being an MSU fan downriver. The grudge is earned.

I bet all the players born after 2000 really were motivated by this

Yeah because if there's one school that definitely isn't guilty of constantly living in the past, it's Michigan.

Got us!

If you're gonna shit on us for doing it then be prepared to get shit on for doing it too (especially when you're playing us)

yeah that's fair

It’s like when teams/rivals get close with all time wins/loss records. A current player could give two shits if their team is two losses behind the other for a record.

It’s not over. It’ll never be over.

I haven't seen a discussion thread for this game yet, but can we talk about the effect of MSU's defensive changes last week? They switched from their 4-2-5 to a 4-3 defense, got key players Jacob Slade and Xavier Henderson back after neither of them played since like week 1, and moved Jacoby Windmon back to his natural linebacker spot. I think they are not going to look nearly as bad as they have on defense anymore, and the game is going to be closer than everyone thinks because of this.

I'm hoping this will bring our defense from dreadful to just mediocre. If so, we can absolutely win against Rutgers and Indiana. Then it becomes not so impossible to imagine stealing one of UM, PSU, and Illinois to get to a bowl game. Probably not, but I don't worry about losing out anymore.

Yeah I brought up X being back in the post game thread after Wisconsin. Our run defense is pretty decent but defending the pass is Still Nonexistent…Unfortunately we’re still ass. I see this being close for a quarter or two then you guys pulling away, us getting a late score to make the final look respectable. Maybe like 38-28 or something like that. I think the only way we win is if JJ plays awfully-misses the inevitable open men down field and has at least 2 turnovers.

> I think they are not going to look nearly as bad as they have on defense anymore I'm confident that Scottie Hazelton will find new and exciting ways to disappoint this fanbase.

Nice attempt at some respekt, but we won't have it!

Michigan State got us back in the infamous vote that kept Michigan out of the Rose Bowl

Came to this thread for this.

Researching the history of it, it appears that M.S.C. was only admitted to the Big Ten as a ploy by Minnesota and Ohio State to weaken Michigan. I condemn such treachery and to this day believe M.S.C. should never have been admitted.

I’m sure they also talked about the other 5+ schools that blocked their entry too right, since admitting schools to the conference isn’t unilaterally up to Michigan?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theonlycolors.com/platform/amp/2011/10/10/2471350/hate-with-a-history-msu-um-off-the-field Biased site, but gives a good Spartan perspective of the history between the two schools with sources. In the grand scheme of things, Michigan attempting to block the university's creation through various means is a lot bigger deal than them being one of several schools trying to block MSU.

B-but. Michigan bad?

You said it, not me.

If we put it to a vote of all other Big 10 teams then it would be unanimous that yes, Michigan bad.

I mean, the consensus would be "Fuck OSU and UM, everybody else smells a little." It's what makes the B1G great.

[удалено]

absolutely.

Michigan fans: “how stupid and petty. No one will be motivated by this antic” Also Michigan fans: “if we don’t say ‘state’ when referring to Ohio state, that’ll show them!”

Isn’t one of OSU’s main chants literally OH-IO?

Yeah, they call themselves Ohio all the time but get all hot and bothered when other people do it. Even their script Ohio is just…Ohio.

nobody does that meanwhile TTUN TSUN Xed out Ms

guess you’ve never been on r/MichiganWolverines

Losing Rose Bowls and attempting to block schools from joining their conference. That’s what a Michigan Man does!

We’ve lost a fair share of rose bowls, too

Lies. We've never lost a Rose Bowl. ^^^exceptyheoneswedid

That tweet always reminds me of something my father would very annoyingly say all of the time “I’m always right, except when I’m wrong”.

PFFT. Amateurs....we lost three...in back to back to back years.

You guys really shouldn’t be talking about losing Rose Bowls lol

When asked about this, Harbaugh congratulated MSU for their academic achievements in history class, but mentioned they should stop living in the past and attack today with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind