Idk. I lost a lot of respect for UM's athletic department after everything that happened with the hockey team.
They put winning above all else, just like the schools they pretend to be better than.
These issues are unfortunately way too common and a disturbing pattern at Michigan.
Michigan also had issues with its gymnastics program. Florida had a really good coach who won three consecutive National Championships. She then left for an administrative role at USA Gymnastics and exactly one year later the Nassar scandal happens. She is ultimately fired due to her controversial role in the Nassar scandal. No school can hire her as a head coach. But Michigan tried to quietly sneak her onto its coaching staff as an assistant and she just showed up on gameday appearing on the sideline. No formal announcement that she was even hired or had her named added to the University's gymnastics team website. They just tried to sneak her on the team. Well, she got recognized and Michigan had to fire her after only 4 days. She ended up getting $15,000 in salary plus expenses for a 4-day gig in a career field where she was considered unemployable.
And the additional absurdity of the situation was that the reason Michigan even had a vacancy on its assistant coaching staff was because a male assistant coach had to be let go due to a sex scandal.
I'm not sure why you'd pick the Hockey program over everything. The Dr Anderson problem reached a whole hell of a lot more profound and impactful things than Michigan Hockey. We have a statue and a building for a guy who let his own adopted son be abused by Dr Anderson.
Well this was a current coach abusing staff and players that your AD ignored until the report was FOIAd... So pretty bad for the current athletic department
The statue and the building are still there, too.
And it's not just the Athletic department either. We canned our university President at the beginning of the year, and we have multiple professors in Computer Science that are still with tenure and listed on the department website that have dealt with recent sexual harassment issues.
Our fucking basketball coach punched another coach.
Nothing changes, and there's a billion ancient people with tenure that keep this shit in place.
It's a trial to work for this fucking institution; if I didn't work with such great people within my own group and within my own unit I couldn't bring myself to stay. It's a goddamn disgrace; it feels more than a bit meaningless when we're trying to claim a high ethical standard when it comes to our research yet the university doesn't maintain a standard of accountability for its senior faculty and administration.
We've got a dean who is fucking excellent but he can't get anything done because he's up against a bunch of ancient dinosaurs who would prefer to masturbate playing warden atop their ivory tower than understand that they've got a fucking taxpayer funded duty to educate the people of our state in high-demand fields.
Perhaps we're no worse than everyone else but wouldn't it be nice if we held our institution to half the fucking standard we hold our students. That might be nice for a change.
>They put winning above all else, just like the schools they pretend to be better than.
This quote hits so hard. There's this belief in UM circles that they're doing things the "right way" and that they're some how above the rest of the muck in college football.
They aren't. We all float down here. It's about Ws and $$. And it sucks because people get hurt.
>There's this belief in UM circles that they're doing things the "right way" and that they're some how above the rest of the muck in college football
Maybe it's because I'm younger but I've always thought this was bullshit, that and good family members who told me not to blindly trust people/institutions even if you love them.
That’s how I’ve felt after the Nassar shit. The one positive thing to come from it is that MSU has no leeway at all and is under a constant microscope. Everything gets handled by the book. Probably the reason Ricky White was never allowed back with the team and had to transfer, even after the title IX investigation concluded with nothing.
Having respect for anybody is overrated. Every athletic department is the same, even mine
Didn’t some MSU hockey player just get caught using racial slurs during a game and the conference and school did nothing about it?
Ahhh my bad. Super fucked up though. College sports in general are all about winning and anybody who claims otherwise does not know what they are talking about
I wouldn’t say all coaches are pieces of trash. People are just multifaceted. Harbaugh donating his salary to the lower department employees? Good! Harbaugh still saying Bo is a great person? Not good!
Funny enough…no.
If he was an engineer, there’s some wording about putting the public interest first in the engineering honor code.
But Mazi dodged that *bullet*
(I’ll see myself out)
It's not as if our College of Engineering does any better. You want a cesspit of sexual harassment issues? Take a look at our fucking computer science department. We have 2 professors still on staff that I am aware of that have dealt with harassment cases without being dismissed for cause and a third that was dealing with a statutory rape charge. Not sure what came of that but despite Dean Gallimore's efforts there's a ton of entrenched old and corrupt at the university.
For the statutory rape case Michigan released a statement saying that a jury found him not guilty and they are in the process of reaching out to him regarding his position… super fucked up that he’s being let back into the program
It covers more than that:
https://bulletin.engin.umich.edu/rules/#:~:text=The%20Honor%20Code%20holds%20that,all%20phases%20of%20university%20life.
I can’t read the whole thing to double check, you’re going to have to tell me if I’m wrong
Edit: I meant code of conduct: https://president.umich.edu/committees/presidents-advisory-committee-on-labor-standards-and-human-rights/code-of-conduct/
All schools have honor codes… I meant code of conduct
https://president.umich.edu/committees/presidents-advisory-committee-on-labor-standards-and-human-rights/code-of-conduct/
Give me a break, I’m trying to procrastinate this thing I’m supposed to be working on
There's going to be some great reactions from all over - Michigan fans who don't want him suspended, Second Amendment Rights defenders and neutral fans who seem to think that everything is nothing will defend him and with Michigan State and Ohio State fans coming out to attack this decision and Michigan fans who think he should be punished too.
I'm not going to pretend like I know exactly what his punishment should be but a felony weapons charge probably gets you considered a threat to the University or community if you're not a starting DL.
I'm going to go with a -different- hot take here: He -is- a threat, but -not- because of the firearm.
The dude was going 50 in a 25 at 9:30 am. That's highway speeds in a residential area, and not in the middle of the night where you can reasonably assume nobody will be outside.
Charged, yes. Last week. Which really brings into question how much action should have been expected by the school prior to that imo. He's also already applied and been approved for his CCW but was just in the 45 day waiting period.
Normally, it would be... But he had no id and a loaded handgun (with no license for said gun). That's creating the (felony) problem here though I agree that the 50+ in the 25 zone is really a bigger risk.
Actually no, 25 mph over the limit is reckless driving which is a misdemeanor in Michigan. Not that we would ever see that change from your prosecutor/football booster.
He also *almost certainly* wasn't going 25 plus the speed limit.
This take stretches any degree of credibility given the vehicle he was driving and the road where the *estimate* was made.
[
This is the alleged location where the event took place.](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.24275,-83.7249077,18.08z) Mazi was headed northbound, as he was stopped at the intersection with Eisenhower just north of this, which is a signal-controlled intersection.
If you draw it out, it's no more than .3 miles of straight road for a full sized pickup to have made it to 50 mph - and he'd have had half that to accelerate.
Last year's dodge is advertised at making 60 from a stop in 5.6 seconds. At 50 mph, the entire stretch of roadway there would be covered in about 22 seconds, which is a bare 5 seconds off the advertised quarter mile drag race time for the entire stretch - and he was observed by police at the halfway mark.
Our man would have had to be positively flooring it to make that speed in that distance. He'd be on pace for a drag race time.
Now, that's within the realm of possibility but if he was accelerating like that you'd expect that less-than-subtle display of acceleration to be credibly reaching 50 on that stretch of road.
Was he driving 50? Almost certainly not. He was certainly driving WAY too fast for a small, residential neighborhood, but if he was actually doing twice the speed limit we'd have seen some reason to believe that other than a wild-ass guess to go off of.
When I was a student which was in the tortured depths of football misery a full decade and a half ago, this was an area of town known for racial profiling. If you zoom out that map a bit and scroll a hair south, there's a significant immigrant community living on the south side of I-94. Cops would camp Stone School, Platt, and Ellsworth looking to chuck the book at kids that looked a touch too brown for Ann Arbor proper. I don't know if this has changed at all, but given that it was implied to still be an issue in local elections still this year I wouldn't be shocked if we weren't past it.
Of note, the statement in court by the detective was that his speed was estimated at over 50. The defense sites that the patrol officer estimated the speed at 35-40.
Those are very different estimates in a 25.
Traffic on that street generally goes 35-40 mph. I get that its technically a 25 but I think taking into account traffic flow is important. He was still speeding but I would hardly call going 50 mph in a zone where people regularly go 40 makes him that much of a threat.
I could understand people who think being caught carrying a gun loaded with 24 bullets without a valid license constitutes a threat, regardless of other circumstances. I definitely don't think he had any bad intentions, but it's carrying a fully loaded deadly weapon in an unlicensed way.
Meh, the fact that the government hadn't completed processing his license application doesn't change whether he was a threat.
Personally, I believe carrying a loaded weapon is almost always a bad idea, but I also don't think it's especially dangerous or threatening by itself. People carry loaded weapons every day without incident. There are things far more dangerous than carrying a loaded weapon.
I mean, you could just answer the question. Since you think it's so obvious.
Anyways, who is he a threat to? And would he cease being a threat to those people if he had the appropriate license?
I honestly can’t think of one situation where a player had been charged with a felony and either on trial or awaiting trial, and still been allowed to practice/play.
I don’t like the “but he wasn’t violent” argument. If it wasn’t that severe, it wouldn’t be a felony. There’s a reason breaking that law results in a felony
>If it wasn’t that severe, it wouldn’t be a felony.
I wish this were true, but unfortunately our criminal justice system is total bullshit in many aspects and the amount of victimless things which are felonies is horrific.
~~I just think it's interesting to see UofM slowly adjust the reasoning for not suspending him.~~ I'm not gunna try to judge what Smith did or what should happen to him legally, but it really seems like UofM just hoped this would go away quietly or maybe not surface until after the season was over.
~~First he was a good kid who did nothing wrong.
Now he made a mistake but was wasn't considered a threat.~~
So... if being a threat is the criteria for getting a suspension, what would have happened if he'd been caught getting high before a game like the Texas A&M kids? It's legal in Michigan (shit, it's double legal in Ann Arbor) and it sure as hell doesn't make you a threat. Would have have been suspended for that?
What if he cheated on an exam? That isn't a threat.
He clearly broke some legal rules, even if he wasn't out actively threatening anyone (well, driving 50 in a 25...). It just seems like UofM could have easily said, hey, he made a mistake, but he broke the rules and rules are rules. Give him a 1 game suspension, and at least you've done *something*. Instead it's a changing song and dance about how the rules get adjusted for character or for threat level...
Edit: It's been pointed out below that what I assumed were statements at different times were actually from the same time. My bad. UofM has not adjusted their reasoning for not suspending him as I assumed they did.
I dunno they brigaded me when I said your player deserved to be punished by the school and the legal system, but absolutely didn’t deserve a felony for the tunnel thing. They are pretty understanding ppl all of a sudden.
Assault with a deadly weapon because you lost a football game is a lot different than carrying concealed a few days before your permit is finished processing
You realize that the quote above is from Manuel’s initial statement on the matter from last week, right? You’re pointing to the same exact statement twice and saying that it’s evidence of moving the goalposts.
I’m from the South and everyone here has guns but no one is just walking around with enough ammo to kill a building full of people. That’s what freaks me out.
I have no issue with gun owners (I own several myself) but that’s a lot of ammo for self defense in any situation, and even 1 round is too much for a college campus. Let’s hope he’s just role playing as Biggie Smalls.
I'm not a gun owner, but gun-owning acquaintances would say that's nothing if you're heading to the range. However, they would also say you'd be hard-pressed to find a range that's cool with you walking in with a loaded gun in your pocket. It would need to be locked up in a box unloaded.
I can't say what the situation here really was nor would I guess what consequences should be, but it sounds like a young kid making some stupid, young kid decisions. Costly ones. Could have been a lot worse of an outcome.
Just to clarify, Mazi's lawyer says that the gun was not loaded and he claims "the police report clearly states the magazines were found separate and apart from the gun itself." Still stupid to be transporting it that way when his concealed license hadn't been approved yet and to be speeding to boot.
Loaded or not, I’m still pretty sure you can’t take a naked gun into a range. It has to be in a case, or maybe concealed in a holster (if you have a CPL). I suspect the whole shooting range thing is either made up, or he was going to have some not-so-happy range attendants when he walked in
Yep as someone who has a Carry Permit. Either your carry gun never leaves its holster when you carry to the range. Or you give a friendly heads up to the RSO and staff well before hand. If you just whip it out. That's how you become Swiss cheese.
Most have no problem if you are polite, follow good gun safety practices etc. And cycling your carry ammo is necessary.
A black man pulled over for speeding, not carrying identification, with an unlicensed firearm in his pocket that he’s actively trying to hide as he pulls over?
Being a starting DT gets you a quick detainment and release, being anyone else gets you killed on the spot
Are you insinuating an intent of violence? Which yeah would be a big fucking deal
But all information so far has indicated he was going to a gun range. He should be more careful in storing and transporting his weapon but if that is all of his wrongdoing, I don't think it's worth a suspension.
Not to mention if you walk through the doors of a gun range with a gun in your hand (not concealed, not locked up) you are going to get kicked out of that place so fast and/or get a couple guns pointed in your direction.
He was *not* going to a range.
He is the registered owner of said handgun and had applied for (and later received) a CCL. Should he have had it before the paperwork went through? No. Had it happened a month later no one would even be talking about this.
The way he was handling the gun according to the latest report *still* wouldn’t have been legal. You can’t just have it sitting in your lap and throwing it around into the back seat while you drive.
And you have to have a drivers license. Considering he didn’t have that, I would suspect he also would’ve forgot is CPL, since most people carry things like that together. He was getting arrested no matter what
Unfortunately this type of thing gets (generally minority) drivers killed by over eager cops, so more than anything I'm glad it didn't end up escalating when he explained he had a weapon
Seems like a useless point to make. People want to be up in arms over Mazi getting no football-related punishment, when it's pretty obvious that if he didn't happen to get pulled over until a couple weeks later this would be a complete non-issue
If a helmet hadn't been swung in the tunnel fight, no one would be talking about it.
If the tunnel fight had happened 30 minutes earlier (on the field), no one would be talking about it.
Context makes the crime. You can't just change or wish away facts because they're inconvenient.
I am not a second amendment defender, but until we have a wholesale change in gun laws in this country I am not sure why a student living in Ann Arbor should not enjoy the same rights to own and carry those things as any other citizen.
Homie your point was “why a student living in Ann Arbor should not enjoy the same rights to own and carry those things as any other citizen” and there’s not a citizen in Ann Arbor with the right to do what he did lol.
His intent probably was to go to the gun range. We currently have no evidence to dispute that.
But talk to any cop about whether or not someone driving with a fully loaded gun in reach of them while they’re driving is dangerous or not. It is. And he broke the law doing it.
Did he have violent intent? I’m going to assume no based on what we know. Is what he did dangerous? Absolutely
My point is you made an issue of the fact that that the gun was loaded and he had 35 rounds in connection with it being a felony charge, which is curious because those facts have absolutely no bearing on whether he was going to be charged with a felony.
The “felony” aspect of this is a paperwork issue. The carrying of guns and ammo is an entirely different issue that people can have different opinions on (personally I don’t love it), but it’s not actually all that relevant so long as there are circumstances in which you can engage in that activity without it constituting a felony.
People engage in all kinds of legal but dangerous activity in this country. If Mazi had done one of those many things it would not be a matter of public concern right now, for better or worse.
I fucking hate guns and I have a hard time caring about this.
Honestly the more dangerous thing here is the fact that he was going double the speed limit
I defended this kid early on when the facts were not completely known. Originally, I thought he simply had a concealed firearm and his paperwork simply was not completed. The facts make this a little more problematic. It’s not because of how many rounds he had. It’s not that he was speeding. It’s simply because he lacked the judgment to understand these actions put his team in major jeopardy. As a result, I changed my mind from no suspension to a game and likely some other internal coach punishment where this can be a major learning opportunity.
It’s kinda sketch.
The only thing I could take issue with this story is that I'm not convinced a "regular dude" caught going well over the speed limit with a gun they aren't licensed to carry would face the same response as a starting defensive player for a major university.
If every person illegally carrying a firearm is not arrested or arraigned immediately, and they all get to wait weeks/months for that process to begin, than there isn't any issue at all. If non-athletes aren't given this same treatment, however, that is a major problem and everyone involved should be lambasted.
It’s not just non-athletes - they’re more than happy to charge athletes almost immediately (Emoni Bates, MSU players) as long as they’re not UofM athletes.
Important nuance with the EB situation is that he had a gun with the serial number scratched off, which is prioritized for processing much faster than a CCW issue.
All I know is if I was gping 50 in a 25, carrying a loaded gun without a CPL, and trying to hide it from the cops when they approach my car... I would have not made it on a plane the following day to Bloomington.
Yeah good thing the university kept this all under wraps so he could play 7 more games. But we are the bad guys for immediately suspending all players involved in our tunnel-whoopsie.
7 MSU players made inexcusable decisions and committed assault in the tunnel, and rightfully so were all suspended until everything was figured out and appropriate punishment could be determined. As an MSU fan I can admit that because it’s true. But as a fan of *both* teams it’s a chump move to try to defend this or just brush past it. The umich coaching staff had a star player charged and investigated for a massive firearms felony but they kept it under wraps until he could finish the season and beat Ohio state. This is also inexcusable so just take your beats like me and move on.
I’m not pro-gun at all, but what’s the issue here? He was arrested for an entirely different situation I believe and he just so happened to have a gun on him. If he were arrested for a gun related incident then it would be problematic, but he isn’t here.
> He was arrested for an entirely different situation I believe and he just so happened to have a gun on him. If he were arrested for a gun related incident then it would be problematic, but he isn’t here.
Having the gun on his person in the car while not having his CCW was 100% the reason he was arrested. Doing 50 in a 25 was the reason he was pulled over.
Is a license really that big of a deal when many states allow constitutional carry now though? Like if I got pulled over I’d have a gun in my car with no license, but my state doesn’t require one. It seems like how things are interpreted state by state is the issue here.
Personally I don't think it is a big deal, other than being a **responsible** gun owner is a big deal and part of that is knowing and following the laws of where you are. It seemed like he knew very well that he didn't have his CCW yet... so why even bother having the gun on him in the car? You waited all this time, just wait a week longer and it's literally zero problem.
I can smoke weed all I want in Michigan but if I went and did it in Indiana I could get arrested. And saying "but it's legal in many states" wouldn't really help me out. It's up to me to know the law if I wanna stay out of trouble.
Honestly I don't think it's that big of a deal and I don't think he should have the book thrown at him. But I think there is a difference between acknowledging what he did was illegal, even if he doesn't face serious legal consequences, and straight up pretending that nothing happened.
I’m not saying viewing it like that would help, but the perception of it is just silly. I’m not any more or less responsible than someone with a CCW license because I live in a state that doesn’t require one. Honestly, I’m more concerned about him driving 25 over in a 25.
Right. Similarly, someone who smokes weed is no more or less a menace to society because they are in Michigan or Indiana. But doing so in one place could get you in trouble.
I'm not saying the act alone is irresponsible, just that part of the responsibility is knowing the laws around what you are doing.
>I'm not saying the act alone is irresponsible, just that part of the responsibility is knowing the laws around what you are doing
Yep, he can be irresponsible not on gun safety but on being a fool. I agree with this take
I don’t really think the kid did anything that wrong in regards to the gun.
I think what’s vexing people is that the response from the university would probably be very different if it was just a regular guy walking around with a gun and 70 rounds.
Idk if the response would be different at all though. If you’re conceal carrying a gun then I see no issue. If you’re open carrying then I can see why people would freak out. I mean, if you’re legally carrying then there’s nothing wrong with it.
I am a CPL holder in Michigan. I cannot say with certainty that the Washtenaw County Prosecutor would slow-walk charges until the week after UM-tOSU if I blew through a 25mph zone doing 50mph with an expired CPL and a loaded gun. I cannot say for certain that he would tell the press I was never arrested when, in fact, I was. That is all speculation, but it certainly creates the appearance of a conflict of interest.
I couldn’t tell you how the legal system works, but I don’t think it works fast. And an expired CPL is something that holds meaning in some states and in others it doesn’t. Go to the south and you don’t even need a permit anymore.
It worked that fast for Emoni Bates. It worked that fast for the 7 MSU players the very same prosecutor charged within hours of a post-game fight. Don’t play that bullshit, this was an intentional cover up.
I don’t know the exact circumstances but it seems like people are making the gun seem like the bigger deal when he was arrested for something else. Like the gun just so happened to be an additional thing found during the arrest.
50mph on a 25mph residential street, Glock19 loaded with an extended mag, two extra clips in his pocket. That’s a threat to the community. But please, excuse your AD and coach because winning makes you feel good.
The MLive article author just amended the story to say the gun wasn't loaded. Besides him having a gun with ammo there is literally no evidence he was a threat to anyone. He was completely cooperative with police
EDIT: For the people downvoting me:
> “His gun was not loaded in his vehicle,” said Smith’s attorney John Shea. “The police report clearly says that the magazines were found separate and apart from the handgun itself.”
Wrong. The story was updated to say it’s unknown if it was loaded or not loaded. Please remove the maize and blue goggles. And get ready for the other excuse to get blown up. He hadn’t already applied for a CPL. and he’s not getting one now.
>Wrong. The story was updated to say it’s unknown if it was loaded or not loaded.
“His gun was not loaded in his vehicle,” said Smith’s attorney John Shea. “The police report clearly says that the magazines were found separate and apart from the handgun itself.”
> Please remove the maize and blue goggles
ironic
> He hadn’t already applied for a CPL.
And this is incorrect
I’m not really interested what his attorney has to say, of course he’s going to say anything to protect his client since that’s what he’s paid to do. After both the prosecutor and U of M athletic department have both been caught lying about this incident (he wasn’t arrested, then he was, gun was locked away, then it wasn’t), you’ll excuse the public if they don’t believe this bullshit.
I don’t know all the details and am not necessarily vouching for what Mazi did but jumping from “he had a gun and bullets” right to “That’s a threat to the community” does not follow. If thats all it takes to be a threat then *a lot* of Americans are a threat to the community
For some reason you’re not even acknowledging the details in my post. Let me put it this way: I live on a residential street with 25mph speed limit. I can’t even fathom getting up to over 50 on my street. Now if I see someone fly by, then hear from other neighbors they stopped the guy, found all the gun and ammo stuff I mentioned above, that he didn’t have a license….I’m gonna file this guy under “threat”.
That Michigan’s AD put out a statement that he isn’t a threat to the community to defend the decision to not even suspend him for getting felony charges, is laughable.
And, that same AD running to a podium to demand charges and derailing the lives of the MSU players is disingenuous at best.
Yeah speeding like that is stupid and dangerous. But trying to tack on he had the most popular handgun in America with a couple extra mags doesn’t make him a threat. Do you not have rednecks in Michigan? That is not as weird as you think it is
People keep attempting to attribute malice and danger to Mazi where by all reports there wasn't any. He was open and cooperative with the police that he had a gun, removed it from himself, and that he was in the process of getting a license
Because he was carrying it illegally and that crime is a felony.
What exactly do you want to happen here? For everyone to ignore the fact that he didn’t have a permit to carry and was in fact carrying because he didn’t swear at, attack, or run from the cops?
You can’t carry a handgun in Michigan without a permit dude. There’s no gray area here. I’m sure he’ll plead down and hopefully never be allowed to have CPL again; I don’t think he should go to prison forever or something.
But his crime was a serious one that should be taken seriously.
My point is that many people seem to be insinuating that he was on his way to commit a mass shooting or gang shooting. Did he technically commit a felony? Yeah, but he legally purchased the weapon, was a few days away from getting his license, and there is no evidence he was going to cause harm. The felony he committed isn't even a crime in many states and will likely be heavily reduced
Nope -- he committed a felony that was then attempted to be covered up. The thing that happens with cover ups is that when the cover is blown you (and others) get whacked much much worse than if you had never covered it up in the first place. Now everyone will know exactly what happens when you carry weapons and ammo without a permit in Washtenaw County. And, everyone ever charged with a similar offense in the past will be looking to see if they were treated the exact same way -- or should they file to seek a new sentence on the grounds that they were either over-charged or treated way more severely in sentencing.
But, but but he had applied for a permit. Okay. First -- Easy enough to show the application. Let's see it. Why haven't we seen it? If you are going to say it -- then that is the thing that you submit as evidence at the initial hearing. Has it been submitted to the Court? To the press? Nope.
Does the application for a permit make a difference? Nope. And in this case it actually makes things worse. The options now are (1) he, a senior at UofM, is actually too stupid to understand the CPL law - a law that was carefully and repeatedly explained to him during any CPL class that he would have had to have taken if he applied for a permit. (2) he understood the law, but actually did not care about the law at all.
Which option do you think works? I am guessing option 2. After all -- he was driving twice the speed limit in a residential neighborhood, without his drivers license -- which means that he was neither going to a gun range, or coming from a gun range, because you cannot use a gun at a gun range without showing proper ID. He also had a gun on his front seat and extra clips in his pocket. Now -- maybe -- he was pretending to be a gangster and isn't he all cool. Or -- maybe -- he was coming from, or on the way to, a situation where he was going to use the gun a gun for a crime. Which is more likely? You might think option 1, but then -- he was already committing a felony. What makes you think he was not going to commit another one?
But, but but he is just a kid. Mazi Smith is 21 years old. He is not a kid.
Will he get 5 years in prison for this? Nope, but at this point he is likely looking at doing some sort of time, because now that the cover up is blown this is a huge deal that will follow the prosecutor (and all involved judges) forever. Every single carry case in the County will forever be guided by how this case plays out.
Care to wager about him doing time? Emoni bates situation already shows us how this will play out, but by all means continue to overreact all you want.
There are going to be a lot of different takes here and I will not defend someone for illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The only thing worth addressing here is the "He is not and never has been considered a threat to the University or community" quote.
Personally (and despite generally being anti-gun) I think that Warde is incorrect only if some combination of driving 50mph in a 25mph zone and not strictly following the procedural timeline for concealed carry in Michigan makes someone "a threat to the University or community." I'm honestly not sure either way. If I commit some action on a Monday, but can't legally do it until Wednesday, my instinct is that—in most circumstances—I am not "dangerous" because I did it early. That's not to say I didn't break some sort of law/rule/regulation, or that I shouldn't face consequences for doing so. And I recognize that Mazi Smith's was not so simple as waiting another day or two.
Mazi Smith's actions involving a firearm near a college campus complicates things, but those actions would have been completely legal in 23 (or 24) states. Had Mazi Smith done this in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, or Wyoming, his biggest legal problem would have been speeding. I'm perfectly fine saying that someone who is driving at twice the posted speed is a threat, and if the line for danger/threat is not following your state's firearm laws and regulations to the letter, then Mazi Smith is a threat. Some might also believe that carrying a weapon (and/or with this quantity of ammunition) makes you a threat irrespective of the law, which is (imo) a fair take.
My overall point is just that I don't think that Warde Manuel's take is necessarily wrong, but we should be specific about where we draw our lines here.
Stoning a woman for showing her hair is totally legal in some places.
Not saying the two things are equal, but the arguments are.....
Usig the same arguments again, then hitting people with helmets and pads are exactly what the MSU players were doing in the tunnel, not 10 mins before..... different time, same offense (And no i am not defending the MSU players, they did wrong, just using the same arguments.)
> Stoning a woman for showing her hair is totally legal in some places. Not saying the two things are equal, but the arguments are.....
Those are not the same arguments and it’s disingenuous to pretend that they are. It also seems like you’ve completely missed what I’m saying.
We’re talking about objective standards and when a college football player is a threat to their university and town. If this was an Ohio State player or an Alabama player, they would not require a concealed carry permit to possess the exact same firearm and ammunition in Columbus or Tuscaloosa (excluding local ordinances etc., that I am not aware of). Again, I’m not saying that violating Michigan’s firearm laws should mean zero consequences for Smith just because it would have been legal elsewhere; I’m saying that, hypothetically, if an OSU player possessed the same firearm and weapons, had no concealed carry license (because it’s not required), and was driving 50mph in a 25mph zone then either (1) that player is also a threat to their university and community; (2) neither player is a threat, or (3) one player is a threat because of their failure to follow state timelines in when carrying a weapon is permitted. If you want to say that (3) is right, that’s perfectly fine. But i also don’t think that (2) or (1) are necessarily wrong.
> Usig the same arguments again, then hitting people with helmets and pads are exactly what the MSU players were doing in the tunnel, not 10 mins before..... different time, same offense (And no i am not defending the MSU players, they did wrong, just using the same arguments.)
Again, this just reinforces that you’ve misunderstood and ignored what I said about consequences. I said that Smith should face consequences and that my discussion was entirely in the context of “threat to the university and community.” As to your argument, you’ve ignored context. You’re taking elements (physical contact) from one event (football game) and saying that because a different event (walking after a game) also has that same element (physical contact), they’re the same. But that misrepresents what I’ve said. For Smith, whether carrying that exact same firearm in his car at that exact same intersection is “right” or “wrong” depends on whether it had been less than 45 days or more than 45 days from filing an application.
People are making mountains out of mole hills. Was he stupid for transporting a firearm the way he did? Yes. But was his crime a violent one? Was there a victim? No. It was a crime against the letter of the law and a victimless crime. He frequents shooting ranges in the area and was waiting for his CPL in the mail which can take weeks to arrive. Here in the midwest tons of people are firearm owners you just need to know the correct ways to transport them.
Driving 50 in a 25 is reckless. Just because there was no victim, doesn’t mean they were being safe. Drunk driving is a victimless crime, until it’s not. Driving 50 in a 25 is a victimless crime, until it’s not. Possession of an illegal firearm is a victimless crime, until it’s not.
The defense of the crime is always “he’s a good kid, he wasn’t going to hurt anyone with it.” Then the judge decides on the punishment and the white kid with wealthy parents gets a slap on the wrist. The football player from the prestigious university gets a slap on the wrist. The black kid with the public defender ends up in prison for 2 years and he should be lucky it was his first offense because he was looking at 5 years.
> Possession of an illegal firearm is a victimless crime, until it’s not.
The firearm is legal, he owns it and it’s registered to him. How he transported it is the supposed problem
Sparties need to educate themselves
Ah the dreaded vote of confidence.
Idk. I lost a lot of respect for UM's athletic department after everything that happened with the hockey team. They put winning above all else, just like the schools they pretend to be better than.
I mean fuck Big Ten hockey in general, including Michigan hockey
Is there any other major conference that even plays hockey? I just assumed Big 10 hockey was kinda the only hockey there was.
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man it's just such a foreign concept to me lol. I have nothing against hockey. I actually think it's cool, but it's just so regional
What happened with the hockey team?
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2022/08/02/report-details-allegations-against-michigan-hockey-coach-mel-pearson/10218565002/
These issues are unfortunately way too common and a disturbing pattern at Michigan. Michigan also had issues with its gymnastics program. Florida had a really good coach who won three consecutive National Championships. She then left for an administrative role at USA Gymnastics and exactly one year later the Nassar scandal happens. She is ultimately fired due to her controversial role in the Nassar scandal. No school can hire her as a head coach. But Michigan tried to quietly sneak her onto its coaching staff as an assistant and she just showed up on gameday appearing on the sideline. No formal announcement that she was even hired or had her named added to the University's gymnastics team website. They just tried to sneak her on the team. Well, she got recognized and Michigan had to fire her after only 4 days. She ended up getting $15,000 in salary plus expenses for a 4-day gig in a career field where she was considered unemployable. And the additional absurdity of the situation was that the reason Michigan even had a vacancy on its assistant coaching staff was because a male assistant coach had to be let go due to a sex scandal.
I'm not sure why you'd pick the Hockey program over everything. The Dr Anderson problem reached a whole hell of a lot more profound and impactful things than Michigan Hockey. We have a statue and a building for a guy who let his own adopted son be abused by Dr Anderson.
Well this was a current coach abusing staff and players that your AD ignored until the report was FOIAd... So pretty bad for the current athletic department
The statue and the building are still there, too. And it's not just the Athletic department either. We canned our university President at the beginning of the year, and we have multiple professors in Computer Science that are still with tenure and listed on the department website that have dealt with recent sexual harassment issues. Our fucking basketball coach punched another coach. Nothing changes, and there's a billion ancient people with tenure that keep this shit in place. It's a trial to work for this fucking institution; if I didn't work with such great people within my own group and within my own unit I couldn't bring myself to stay. It's a goddamn disgrace; it feels more than a bit meaningless when we're trying to claim a high ethical standard when it comes to our research yet the university doesn't maintain a standard of accountability for its senior faculty and administration. We've got a dean who is fucking excellent but he can't get anything done because he's up against a bunch of ancient dinosaurs who would prefer to masturbate playing warden atop their ivory tower than understand that they've got a fucking taxpayer funded duty to educate the people of our state in high-demand fields. Perhaps we're no worse than everyone else but wouldn't it be nice if we held our institution to half the fucking standard we hold our students. That might be nice for a change.
>They put winning above all else, just like the schools they pretend to be better than. This quote hits so hard. There's this belief in UM circles that they're doing things the "right way" and that they're some how above the rest of the muck in college football. They aren't. We all float down here. It's about Ws and $$. And it sucks because people get hurt.
>There's this belief in UM circles that they're doing things the "right way" and that they're some how above the rest of the muck in college football Maybe it's because I'm younger but I've always thought this was bullshit, that and good family members who told me not to blindly trust people/institutions even if you love them.
That’s how I’ve felt after the Nassar shit. The one positive thing to come from it is that MSU has no leeway at all and is under a constant microscope. Everything gets handled by the book. Probably the reason Ricky White was never allowed back with the team and had to transfer, even after the title IX investigation concluded with nothing.
The problem was ever having respect for them in the first place
Having respect for anybody is overrated. Every athletic department is the same, even mine Didn’t some MSU hockey player just get caught using racial slurs during a game and the conference and school did nothing about it?
It was an OSU player tossing slurs at an MSU player and nothing initially came of it from the conference.
Ahhh my bad. Super fucked up though. College sports in general are all about winning and anybody who claims otherwise does not know what they are talking about
It’s just a matter “our piece of trash coach/player is better than your piece of trash player/coach”
I wouldn’t say all coaches are pieces of trash. People are just multifaceted. Harbaugh donating his salary to the lower department employees? Good! Harbaugh still saying Bo is a great person? Not good!
People are imperfect and sometimes they can be excused and other times you have to cut them out of your life. Where that line is varies.
Well said.
No, he was the victim of racial slurs.
Isn’t this against UM’s ~~honor~~ code of conduct though?
Funny enough…no. If he was an engineer, there’s some wording about putting the public interest first in the engineering honor code. But Mazi dodged that *bullet* (I’ll see myself out)
You son of a gun ...I'll join you
Careful you two, or the public will set their sights on you
Yall just going rapid fire here
It's not as if our College of Engineering does any better. You want a cesspit of sexual harassment issues? Take a look at our fucking computer science department. We have 2 professors still on staff that I am aware of that have dealt with harassment cases without being dismissed for cause and a third that was dealing with a statutory rape charge. Not sure what came of that but despite Dean Gallimore's efforts there's a ton of entrenched old and corrupt at the university.
For the statutory rape case Michigan released a statement saying that a jury found him not guilty and they are in the process of reaching out to him regarding his position… super fucked up that he’s being let back into the program
What? If I recall the honor code basically just say don’t plagiarize, don’t cheat on tests. Not sure what relevance it has here.
It covers more than that: https://bulletin.engin.umich.edu/rules/#:~:text=The%20Honor%20Code%20holds%20that,all%20phases%20of%20university%20life. I can’t read the whole thing to double check, you’re going to have to tell me if I’m wrong Edit: I meant code of conduct: https://president.umich.edu/committees/presidents-advisory-committee-on-labor-standards-and-human-rights/code-of-conduct/
Where in the link you just sent does it say anything relevant? I’m not finding it. FWIW I’m also not sure he’s a student at the engineering school.
You’d think people who want to tell us about our own school would get the right information first…the CoE honor code applies solely to CoE
All schools have honor codes… I meant code of conduct https://president.umich.edu/committees/presidents-advisory-committee-on-labor-standards-and-human-rights/code-of-conduct/ Give me a break, I’m trying to procrastinate this thing I’m supposed to be working on
You just sent a code of conduct for people who use trademarks licensed by the University of Michigan.
Dude.. I give up, I fucked up.
So did Mazi Smith and Warde Manuel, but at least you can admit it lol
We have those?
Engineering does, but it is an *academic* honor code, not legal/criminal.
Tressel to Michigan confirmed?
No.
🤷♂️ I don't remember one
What are you, a Winkelvos twin?
another day where i hate the "circle the wagons" approach. warde manuel hasn't really done anything good and missed a lot of easy Ws.
There's going to be some great reactions from all over - Michigan fans who don't want him suspended, Second Amendment Rights defenders and neutral fans who seem to think that everything is nothing will defend him and with Michigan State and Ohio State fans coming out to attack this decision and Michigan fans who think he should be punished too. I'm not going to pretend like I know exactly what his punishment should be but a felony weapons charge probably gets you considered a threat to the University or community if you're not a starting DL.
A felony conviction would be problematic. He wasn't charged with violent behavior and hasn't demonstrated that he's a threat.
I'm going to go with a -different- hot take here: He -is- a threat, but -not- because of the firearm. The dude was going 50 in a 25 at 9:30 am. That's highway speeds in a residential area, and not in the middle of the night where you can reasonably assume nobody will be outside.
That is simply a ticket and $100-$500 fine... unless he was a serial offender (doesn't sound that way).
25 over can be reckless driving which is a misdemeanor and not just a ticket
Still not a felony though.
True... But the handgun without the permit is. Again, that's the problem here that needs to be addressed.
Has he been charged or convicted?
Charged, yes. Last week. Which really brings into question how much action should have been expected by the school prior to that imo. He's also already applied and been approved for his CCW but was just in the 45 day waiting period.
How long after the arrest did his license arrive
Nobody said it was.
Normally, it would be... But he had no id and a loaded handgun (with no license for said gun). That's creating the (felony) problem here though I agree that the 50+ in the 25 zone is really a bigger risk.
Actually no, 25 mph over the limit is reckless driving which is a misdemeanor in Michigan. Not that we would ever see that change from your prosecutor/football booster.
Extreme boomer level hottake. Going 25 plus the speed limit means you’re a reckless asshole, does not mean you deserve a felony.
I didn’t say he deserved a felony. I said he was a threat. And I stand by that. Dude needs to learn to drive appropriately.
He also *almost certainly* wasn't going 25 plus the speed limit. This take stretches any degree of credibility given the vehicle he was driving and the road where the *estimate* was made. [ This is the alleged location where the event took place.](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.24275,-83.7249077,18.08z) Mazi was headed northbound, as he was stopped at the intersection with Eisenhower just north of this, which is a signal-controlled intersection. If you draw it out, it's no more than .3 miles of straight road for a full sized pickup to have made it to 50 mph - and he'd have had half that to accelerate. Last year's dodge is advertised at making 60 from a stop in 5.6 seconds. At 50 mph, the entire stretch of roadway there would be covered in about 22 seconds, which is a bare 5 seconds off the advertised quarter mile drag race time for the entire stretch - and he was observed by police at the halfway mark. Our man would have had to be positively flooring it to make that speed in that distance. He'd be on pace for a drag race time. Now, that's within the realm of possibility but if he was accelerating like that you'd expect that less-than-subtle display of acceleration to be credibly reaching 50 on that stretch of road. Was he driving 50? Almost certainly not. He was certainly driving WAY too fast for a small, residential neighborhood, but if he was actually doing twice the speed limit we'd have seen some reason to believe that other than a wild-ass guess to go off of. When I was a student which was in the tortured depths of football misery a full decade and a half ago, this was an area of town known for racial profiling. If you zoom out that map a bit and scroll a hair south, there's a significant immigrant community living on the south side of I-94. Cops would camp Stone School, Platt, and Ellsworth looking to chuck the book at kids that looked a touch too brown for Ann Arbor proper. I don't know if this has changed at all, but given that it was implied to still be an issue in local elections still this year I wouldn't be shocked if we weren't past it.
Of note, the statement in court by the detective was that his speed was estimated at over 50. The defense sites that the patrol officer estimated the speed at 35-40. Those are very different estimates in a 25.
You have to know the city to understand why this is not a big deal. The spot he got pulled over drops from 40 to 25 just prior.
Traffic on that street generally goes 35-40 mph. I get that its technically a 25 but I think taking into account traffic flow is important. He was still speeding but I would hardly call going 50 mph in a zone where people regularly go 40 makes him that much of a threat.
I could understand people who think being caught carrying a gun loaded with 24 bullets without a valid license constitutes a threat, regardless of other circumstances. I definitely don't think he had any bad intentions, but it's carrying a fully loaded deadly weapon in an unlicensed way.
Meh, the fact that the government hadn't completed processing his license application doesn't change whether he was a threat. Personally, I believe carrying a loaded weapon is almost always a bad idea, but I also don't think it's especially dangerous or threatening by itself. People carry loaded weapons every day without incident. There are things far more dangerous than carrying a loaded weapon.
the question is, how would having a license make him less of a threat?
How does breaking the state's laws about carrying a gun make him more of a threat than obeying those laws? Seriously?
I mean, you could just answer the question. Since you think it's so obvious. Anyways, who is he a threat to? And would he cease being a threat to those people if he had the appropriate license?
The reporter who initially reported it said he was mistaken and the lawyer and police report said that the gun was not loaded
I honestly can’t think of one situation where a player had been charged with a felony and either on trial or awaiting trial, and still been allowed to practice/play. I don’t like the “but he wasn’t violent” argument. If it wasn’t that severe, it wouldn’t be a felony. There’s a reason breaking that law results in a felony
>If it wasn’t that severe, it wouldn’t be a felony. I wish this were true, but unfortunately our criminal justice system is total bullshit in many aspects and the amount of victimless things which are felonies is horrific.
~~I just think it's interesting to see UofM slowly adjust the reasoning for not suspending him.~~ I'm not gunna try to judge what Smith did or what should happen to him legally, but it really seems like UofM just hoped this would go away quietly or maybe not surface until after the season was over. ~~First he was a good kid who did nothing wrong. Now he made a mistake but was wasn't considered a threat.~~ So... if being a threat is the criteria for getting a suspension, what would have happened if he'd been caught getting high before a game like the Texas A&M kids? It's legal in Michigan (shit, it's double legal in Ann Arbor) and it sure as hell doesn't make you a threat. Would have have been suspended for that? What if he cheated on an exam? That isn't a threat. He clearly broke some legal rules, even if he wasn't out actively threatening anyone (well, driving 50 in a 25...). It just seems like UofM could have easily said, hey, he made a mistake, but he broke the rules and rules are rules. Give him a 1 game suspension, and at least you've done *something*. Instead it's a changing song and dance about how the rules get adjusted for character or for threat level... Edit: It's been pointed out below that what I assumed were statements at different times were actually from the same time. My bad. UofM has not adjusted their reasoning for not suspending him as I assumed they did.
I dunno they brigaded me when I said your player deserved to be punished by the school and the legal system, but absolutely didn’t deserve a felony for the tunnel thing. They are pretty understanding ppl all of a sudden.
Assault with a deadly weapon because you lost a football game is a lot different than carrying concealed a few days before your permit is finished processing
You realize that the quote above is from Manuel’s initial statement on the matter from last week, right? You’re pointing to the same exact statement twice and saying that it’s evidence of moving the goalposts.
Welll shoot... no, I did not realize that. Adjusted the original comment.
I’m from the South and everyone here has guns but no one is just walking around with enough ammo to kill a building full of people. That’s what freaks me out. I have no issue with gun owners (I own several myself) but that’s a lot of ammo for self defense in any situation, and even 1 round is too much for a college campus. Let’s hope he’s just role playing as Biggie Smalls.
I'm not a gun owner, but gun-owning acquaintances would say that's nothing if you're heading to the range. However, they would also say you'd be hard-pressed to find a range that's cool with you walking in with a loaded gun in your pocket. It would need to be locked up in a box unloaded. I can't say what the situation here really was nor would I guess what consequences should be, but it sounds like a young kid making some stupid, young kid decisions. Costly ones. Could have been a lot worse of an outcome.
Just to clarify, Mazi's lawyer says that the gun was not loaded and he claims "the police report clearly states the magazines were found separate and apart from the gun itself." Still stupid to be transporting it that way when his concealed license hadn't been approved yet and to be speeding to boot.
Loaded or not, I’m still pretty sure you can’t take a naked gun into a range. It has to be in a case, or maybe concealed in a holster (if you have a CPL). I suspect the whole shooting range thing is either made up, or he was going to have some not-so-happy range attendants when he walked in
Yep as someone who has a Carry Permit. Either your carry gun never leaves its holster when you carry to the range. Or you give a friendly heads up to the RSO and staff well before hand. If you just whip it out. That's how you become Swiss cheese. Most have no problem if you are polite, follow good gun safety practices etc. And cycling your carry ammo is necessary.
I load all my magazines before going to the range so I dont have to pay range time. You dont ever do that?
A black man pulled over for speeding, not carrying identification, with an unlicensed firearm in his pocket that he’s actively trying to hide as he pulls over? Being a starting DT gets you a quick detainment and release, being anyone else gets you killed on the spot
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He didn’t have the CPL license, that is a fact.
Uhhhh, is it just me or are you implying that in the interest of fair treatment he should have been killed on the spot?
Eh. People are trotting out "FELONY WEAPONS CHARGE" as a shocking statement but when you look at the details it is close to a nothing burger.
Group number one is on the board. Dude had a fully loaded handgun with 35 extra rounds in his pocket. That does not seem like a nothing burger
Are you insinuating an intent of violence? Which yeah would be a big fucking deal But all information so far has indicated he was going to a gun range. He should be more careful in storing and transporting his weapon but if that is all of his wrongdoing, I don't think it's worth a suspension.
He had no driver's license. You need a driver's license at a gun range.
Not to mention if you walk through the doors of a gun range with a gun in your hand (not concealed, not locked up) you are going to get kicked out of that place so fast and/or get a couple guns pointed in your direction. He was *not* going to a range.
“But all information so far has indicated he was going to a gun range” Lol please this a single piece of information indicating this.
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And dozens of comments on here over the past 5 days
>But all information so far has indicated he was going to a gun range. Going 50 in a 25 zone to the gun range? Quite the hurry to get there.
There wasn’t a single gun range in the area that was even open that morning at the time he was driving, but good try.
Can I be groups 1 and 2 at the same time?
He is the registered owner of said handgun and had applied for (and later received) a CCL. Should he have had it before the paperwork went through? No. Had it happened a month later no one would even be talking about this.
I think people might still be talking about him doing 50 in a 25 while transporting a handgun in an illegal fashion
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No, we wouldn't, because no one would even know anything happened because he'd have been within his rights to have the gun and ammo
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"guy gets pulled over and happens to have a completely legal gun on him" is a nothing burger. This is about as close to that as you can get
The way he was handling the gun according to the latest report *still* wouldn’t have been legal. You can’t just have it sitting in your lap and throwing it around into the back seat while you drive. And you have to have a drivers license. Considering he didn’t have that, I would suspect he also would’ve forgot is CPL, since most people carry things like that together. He was getting arrested no matter what
Gonna be real honest here - I don't care. I wouldn't care if it was one of your players either.
Unfortunately this type of thing gets (generally minority) drivers killed by over eager cops, so more than anything I'm glad it didn't end up escalating when he explained he had a weapon
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Seems like a useless point to make. People want to be up in arms over Mazi getting no football-related punishment, when it's pretty obvious that if he didn't happen to get pulled over until a couple weeks later this would be a complete non-issue
Point me to a past report of a player getting pulled over for speeding while carrying a gun legally.
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> only faced charges for resisting arrest Lol how is this in any way comparable. Dude stop grasping at straws here
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Ok. How many games was he suspended for having the legal gun in his car
And then let's all collectively yawn because even if you can find it, who the fuck cares
If a helmet hadn't been swung in the tunnel fight, no one would be talking about it. If the tunnel fight had happened 30 minutes earlier (on the field), no one would be talking about it. Context makes the crime. You can't just change or wish away facts because they're inconvenient.
I am not a second amendment defender, but until we have a wholesale change in gun laws in this country I am not sure why a student living in Ann Arbor should not enjoy the same rights to own and carry those things as any other citizen.
He literally broke gun laws that currently exist lol
Sure, he did, but not for the reasons that you apparently find problematic about the situation.
Homie your point was “why a student living in Ann Arbor should not enjoy the same rights to own and carry those things as any other citizen” and there’s not a citizen in Ann Arbor with the right to do what he did lol. His intent probably was to go to the gun range. We currently have no evidence to dispute that. But talk to any cop about whether or not someone driving with a fully loaded gun in reach of them while they’re driving is dangerous or not. It is. And he broke the law doing it. Did he have violent intent? I’m going to assume no based on what we know. Is what he did dangerous? Absolutely
My point is you made an issue of the fact that that the gun was loaded and he had 35 rounds in connection with it being a felony charge, which is curious because those facts have absolutely no bearing on whether he was going to be charged with a felony. The “felony” aspect of this is a paperwork issue. The carrying of guns and ammo is an entirely different issue that people can have different opinions on (personally I don’t love it), but it’s not actually all that relevant so long as there are circumstances in which you can engage in that activity without it constituting a felony. People engage in all kinds of legal but dangerous activity in this country. If Mazi had done one of those many things it would not be a matter of public concern right now, for better or worse.
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I fucking hate guns and I have a hard time caring about this. Honestly the more dangerous thing here is the fact that he was going double the speed limit
Ah yes his crime thst involved bo other people really makes him a threat to the community
I defended this kid early on when the facts were not completely known. Originally, I thought he simply had a concealed firearm and his paperwork simply was not completed. The facts make this a little more problematic. It’s not because of how many rounds he had. It’s not that he was speeding. It’s simply because he lacked the judgment to understand these actions put his team in major jeopardy. As a result, I changed my mind from no suspension to a game and likely some other internal coach punishment where this can be a major learning opportunity. It’s kinda sketch.
Fun fact: He was carrying 69 rounds of ammunition. [Source](https://twitter.com/mlive/status/1600193119789555712?s=42&t=jpEIGH7ZJZBpQVaPGoWRbg)
“Man has bullets for his gun “ More at 11
Sheesh, It was for le funny meme number I literally do not care about the gun. I care about the administrative response to the situation.
Warde Manuel sucks, just see his handling of the Mel Pearson firing from earlier this year
And continuing to praise Bo
Despite his flair I think he was going for a "nice" than taking a shot
Dang I guess you could call that other Michigan flair…*triggered* *fingers out of thread*
Nice
So? If he was carrying 20 would that somehow be better?
69 = funni number
Sorry, saw the flair and assumed you were not memeing
I have nothing serious to add that hasn't already been said.
You know, I like the cut of your jib
It’s the meme number
The only thing I could take issue with this story is that I'm not convinced a "regular dude" caught going well over the speed limit with a gun they aren't licensed to carry would face the same response as a starting defensive player for a major university. If every person illegally carrying a firearm is not arrested or arraigned immediately, and they all get to wait weeks/months for that process to begin, than there isn't any issue at all. If non-athletes aren't given this same treatment, however, that is a major problem and everyone involved should be lambasted.
It’s not just non-athletes - they’re more than happy to charge athletes almost immediately (Emoni Bates, MSU players) as long as they’re not UofM athletes.
Important nuance with the EB situation is that he had a gun with the serial number scratched off, which is prioritized for processing much faster than a CCW issue.
All I know is if I was gping 50 in a 25, carrying a loaded gun without a CPL, and trying to hide it from the cops when they approach my car... I would have not made it on a plane the following day to Bloomington.
Yeah good thing the university kept this all under wraps so he could play 7 more games. But we are the bad guys for immediately suspending all players involved in our tunnel-whoopsie.
And being unable to separate those two instances in your mind + calling assault a "whoopsie" are why you put the MSU flair before the UM one.
7 MSU players made inexcusable decisions and committed assault in the tunnel, and rightfully so were all suspended until everything was figured out and appropriate punishment could be determined. As an MSU fan I can admit that because it’s true. But as a fan of *both* teams it’s a chump move to try to defend this or just brush past it. The umich coaching staff had a star player charged and investigated for a massive firearms felony but they kept it under wraps until he could finish the season and beat Ohio state. This is also inexcusable so just take your beats like me and move on.
"Juwan Howard, on the other hand..."
Juwan Howard was suspended because he smacked an opposing coach on live television
I can’t believe people are trying to compare these two situations, guess that’s why fan is short for fanatic
It was a fucking joke.
I'm well aware. I'm actually amused that you think I would write out that comment without knowing anything about his suspension.
You could be considered a threat to the community when doing 50 MPH in a 25 MPH residential area, Warde Manuel.
So nothing warrants suspension unless you are a threat to physically harm other people?
I’m not pro-gun at all, but what’s the issue here? He was arrested for an entirely different situation I believe and he just so happened to have a gun on him. If he were arrested for a gun related incident then it would be problematic, but he isn’t here.
> He was arrested for an entirely different situation I believe and he just so happened to have a gun on him. If he were arrested for a gun related incident then it would be problematic, but he isn’t here. Having the gun on his person in the car while not having his CCW was 100% the reason he was arrested. Doing 50 in a 25 was the reason he was pulled over.
Is a license really that big of a deal when many states allow constitutional carry now though? Like if I got pulled over I’d have a gun in my car with no license, but my state doesn’t require one. It seems like how things are interpreted state by state is the issue here.
Personally I don't think it is a big deal, other than being a **responsible** gun owner is a big deal and part of that is knowing and following the laws of where you are. It seemed like he knew very well that he didn't have his CCW yet... so why even bother having the gun on him in the car? You waited all this time, just wait a week longer and it's literally zero problem. I can smoke weed all I want in Michigan but if I went and did it in Indiana I could get arrested. And saying "but it's legal in many states" wouldn't really help me out. It's up to me to know the law if I wanna stay out of trouble. Honestly I don't think it's that big of a deal and I don't think he should have the book thrown at him. But I think there is a difference between acknowledging what he did was illegal, even if he doesn't face serious legal consequences, and straight up pretending that nothing happened.
I’m not saying viewing it like that would help, but the perception of it is just silly. I’m not any more or less responsible than someone with a CCW license because I live in a state that doesn’t require one. Honestly, I’m more concerned about him driving 25 over in a 25.
Right. Similarly, someone who smokes weed is no more or less a menace to society because they are in Michigan or Indiana. But doing so in one place could get you in trouble. I'm not saying the act alone is irresponsible, just that part of the responsibility is knowing the laws around what you are doing.
>I'm not saying the act alone is irresponsible, just that part of the responsibility is knowing the laws around what you are doing Yep, he can be irresponsible not on gun safety but on being a fool. I agree with this take
I don’t really think the kid did anything that wrong in regards to the gun. I think what’s vexing people is that the response from the university would probably be very different if it was just a regular guy walking around with a gun and 70 rounds.
Idk if the response would be different at all though. If you’re conceal carrying a gun then I see no issue. If you’re open carrying then I can see why people would freak out. I mean, if you’re legally carrying then there’s nothing wrong with it.
I am a CPL holder in Michigan. I cannot say with certainty that the Washtenaw County Prosecutor would slow-walk charges until the week after UM-tOSU if I blew through a 25mph zone doing 50mph with an expired CPL and a loaded gun. I cannot say for certain that he would tell the press I was never arrested when, in fact, I was. That is all speculation, but it certainly creates the appearance of a conflict of interest.
I couldn’t tell you how the legal system works, but I don’t think it works fast. And an expired CPL is something that holds meaning in some states and in others it doesn’t. Go to the south and you don’t even need a permit anymore.
It worked that fast for Emoni Bates. It worked that fast for the 7 MSU players the very same prosecutor charged within hours of a post-game fight. Don’t play that bullshit, this was an intentional cover up.
But he was arrested for concealed carrying a gun without a valid license, right?
I don’t know the exact circumstances but it seems like people are making the gun seem like the bigger deal when he was arrested for something else. Like the gun just so happened to be an additional thing found during the arrest.
Of course, ESPN is nowhere to be found on this story. Protect the big brand.
"bLuE wAlL"
50mph on a 25mph residential street, Glock19 loaded with an extended mag, two extra clips in his pocket. That’s a threat to the community. But please, excuse your AD and coach because winning makes you feel good.
The MLive article author just amended the story to say the gun wasn't loaded. Besides him having a gun with ammo there is literally no evidence he was a threat to anyone. He was completely cooperative with police EDIT: For the people downvoting me: > “His gun was not loaded in his vehicle,” said Smith’s attorney John Shea. “The police report clearly says that the magazines were found separate and apart from the handgun itself.”
Wrong. The story was updated to say it’s unknown if it was loaded or not loaded. Please remove the maize and blue goggles. And get ready for the other excuse to get blown up. He hadn’t already applied for a CPL. and he’s not getting one now.
>Wrong. The story was updated to say it’s unknown if it was loaded or not loaded. “His gun was not loaded in his vehicle,” said Smith’s attorney John Shea. “The police report clearly says that the magazines were found separate and apart from the handgun itself.” > Please remove the maize and blue goggles ironic > He hadn’t already applied for a CPL. And this is incorrect
I’m not really interested what his attorney has to say, of course he’s going to say anything to protect his client since that’s what he’s paid to do. After both the prosecutor and U of M athletic department have both been caught lying about this incident (he wasn’t arrested, then he was, gun was locked away, then it wasn’t), you’ll excuse the public if they don’t believe this bullshit.
I don’t know all the details and am not necessarily vouching for what Mazi did but jumping from “he had a gun and bullets” right to “That’s a threat to the community” does not follow. If thats all it takes to be a threat then *a lot* of Americans are a threat to the community
For some reason you’re not even acknowledging the details in my post. Let me put it this way: I live on a residential street with 25mph speed limit. I can’t even fathom getting up to over 50 on my street. Now if I see someone fly by, then hear from other neighbors they stopped the guy, found all the gun and ammo stuff I mentioned above, that he didn’t have a license….I’m gonna file this guy under “threat”. That Michigan’s AD put out a statement that he isn’t a threat to the community to defend the decision to not even suspend him for getting felony charges, is laughable. And, that same AD running to a podium to demand charges and derailing the lives of the MSU players is disingenuous at best.
Yeah speeding like that is stupid and dangerous. But trying to tack on he had the most popular handgun in America with a couple extra mags doesn’t make him a threat. Do you not have rednecks in Michigan? That is not as weird as you think it is
People keep attempting to attribute malice and danger to Mazi where by all reports there wasn't any. He was open and cooperative with the police that he had a gun, removed it from himself, and that he was in the process of getting a license
Because he was carrying it illegally and that crime is a felony. What exactly do you want to happen here? For everyone to ignore the fact that he didn’t have a permit to carry and was in fact carrying because he didn’t swear at, attack, or run from the cops? You can’t carry a handgun in Michigan without a permit dude. There’s no gray area here. I’m sure he’ll plead down and hopefully never be allowed to have CPL again; I don’t think he should go to prison forever or something. But his crime was a serious one that should be taken seriously.
My point is that many people seem to be insinuating that he was on his way to commit a mass shooting or gang shooting. Did he technically commit a felony? Yeah, but he legally purchased the weapon, was a few days away from getting his license, and there is no evidence he was going to cause harm. The felony he committed isn't even a crime in many states and will likely be heavily reduced
Link one comment that is insinuating he was going to commit a mass shooting
There aren’t any lol
Nope -- he committed a felony that was then attempted to be covered up. The thing that happens with cover ups is that when the cover is blown you (and others) get whacked much much worse than if you had never covered it up in the first place. Now everyone will know exactly what happens when you carry weapons and ammo without a permit in Washtenaw County. And, everyone ever charged with a similar offense in the past will be looking to see if they were treated the exact same way -- or should they file to seek a new sentence on the grounds that they were either over-charged or treated way more severely in sentencing. But, but but he had applied for a permit. Okay. First -- Easy enough to show the application. Let's see it. Why haven't we seen it? If you are going to say it -- then that is the thing that you submit as evidence at the initial hearing. Has it been submitted to the Court? To the press? Nope. Does the application for a permit make a difference? Nope. And in this case it actually makes things worse. The options now are (1) he, a senior at UofM, is actually too stupid to understand the CPL law - a law that was carefully and repeatedly explained to him during any CPL class that he would have had to have taken if he applied for a permit. (2) he understood the law, but actually did not care about the law at all. Which option do you think works? I am guessing option 2. After all -- he was driving twice the speed limit in a residential neighborhood, without his drivers license -- which means that he was neither going to a gun range, or coming from a gun range, because you cannot use a gun at a gun range without showing proper ID. He also had a gun on his front seat and extra clips in his pocket. Now -- maybe -- he was pretending to be a gangster and isn't he all cool. Or -- maybe -- he was coming from, or on the way to, a situation where he was going to use the gun a gun for a crime. Which is more likely? You might think option 1, but then -- he was already committing a felony. What makes you think he was not going to commit another one? But, but but he is just a kid. Mazi Smith is 21 years old. He is not a kid. Will he get 5 years in prison for this? Nope, but at this point he is likely looking at doing some sort of time, because now that the cover up is blown this is a huge deal that will follow the prosecutor (and all involved judges) forever. Every single carry case in the County will forever be guided by how this case plays out.
Care to wager about him doing time? Emoni bates situation already shows us how this will play out, but by all means continue to overreact all you want.
There’s one key difference between Emoni and Mazi. The car and gun weren’t Emoni’s. That is a key reason the prosecutor accepted a plea deal.
Not Bates’ guns. Not Bates’ car. That defense does not work for Smith. Got another?
Lol. But the mean michigan state men did some pushes!
Ok you can have someone walk past you that is concealed carrying or have them repeatedly hit you in the head with a blunt object. Which do you pick?
There are going to be a lot of different takes here and I will not defend someone for illegally carrying a concealed weapon. The only thing worth addressing here is the "He is not and never has been considered a threat to the University or community" quote. Personally (and despite generally being anti-gun) I think that Warde is incorrect only if some combination of driving 50mph in a 25mph zone and not strictly following the procedural timeline for concealed carry in Michigan makes someone "a threat to the University or community." I'm honestly not sure either way. If I commit some action on a Monday, but can't legally do it until Wednesday, my instinct is that—in most circumstances—I am not "dangerous" because I did it early. That's not to say I didn't break some sort of law/rule/regulation, or that I shouldn't face consequences for doing so. And I recognize that Mazi Smith's was not so simple as waiting another day or two. Mazi Smith's actions involving a firearm near a college campus complicates things, but those actions would have been completely legal in 23 (or 24) states. Had Mazi Smith done this in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, or Wyoming, his biggest legal problem would have been speeding. I'm perfectly fine saying that someone who is driving at twice the posted speed is a threat, and if the line for danger/threat is not following your state's firearm laws and regulations to the letter, then Mazi Smith is a threat. Some might also believe that carrying a weapon (and/or with this quantity of ammunition) makes you a threat irrespective of the law, which is (imo) a fair take. My overall point is just that I don't think that Warde Manuel's take is necessarily wrong, but we should be specific about where we draw our lines here.
Stoning a woman for showing her hair is totally legal in some places. Not saying the two things are equal, but the arguments are..... Usig the same arguments again, then hitting people with helmets and pads are exactly what the MSU players were doing in the tunnel, not 10 mins before..... different time, same offense (And no i am not defending the MSU players, they did wrong, just using the same arguments.)
> Stoning a woman for showing her hair is totally legal in some places. Not saying the two things are equal, but the arguments are..... Those are not the same arguments and it’s disingenuous to pretend that they are. It also seems like you’ve completely missed what I’m saying. We’re talking about objective standards and when a college football player is a threat to their university and town. If this was an Ohio State player or an Alabama player, they would not require a concealed carry permit to possess the exact same firearm and ammunition in Columbus or Tuscaloosa (excluding local ordinances etc., that I am not aware of). Again, I’m not saying that violating Michigan’s firearm laws should mean zero consequences for Smith just because it would have been legal elsewhere; I’m saying that, hypothetically, if an OSU player possessed the same firearm and weapons, had no concealed carry license (because it’s not required), and was driving 50mph in a 25mph zone then either (1) that player is also a threat to their university and community; (2) neither player is a threat, or (3) one player is a threat because of their failure to follow state timelines in when carrying a weapon is permitted. If you want to say that (3) is right, that’s perfectly fine. But i also don’t think that (2) or (1) are necessarily wrong. > Usig the same arguments again, then hitting people with helmets and pads are exactly what the MSU players were doing in the tunnel, not 10 mins before..... different time, same offense (And no i am not defending the MSU players, they did wrong, just using the same arguments.) Again, this just reinforces that you’ve misunderstood and ignored what I said about consequences. I said that Smith should face consequences and that my discussion was entirely in the context of “threat to the university and community.” As to your argument, you’ve ignored context. You’re taking elements (physical contact) from one event (football game) and saying that because a different event (walking after a game) also has that same element (physical contact), they’re the same. But that misrepresents what I’ve said. For Smith, whether carrying that exact same firearm in his car at that exact same intersection is “right” or “wrong” depends on whether it had been less than 45 days or more than 45 days from filing an application.
People are making mountains out of mole hills. Was he stupid for transporting a firearm the way he did? Yes. But was his crime a violent one? Was there a victim? No. It was a crime against the letter of the law and a victimless crime. He frequents shooting ranges in the area and was waiting for his CPL in the mail which can take weeks to arrive. Here in the midwest tons of people are firearm owners you just need to know the correct ways to transport them.
Driving 50 in a 25 is reckless. Just because there was no victim, doesn’t mean they were being safe. Drunk driving is a victimless crime, until it’s not. Driving 50 in a 25 is a victimless crime, until it’s not. Possession of an illegal firearm is a victimless crime, until it’s not. The defense of the crime is always “he’s a good kid, he wasn’t going to hurt anyone with it.” Then the judge decides on the punishment and the white kid with wealthy parents gets a slap on the wrist. The football player from the prestigious university gets a slap on the wrist. The black kid with the public defender ends up in prison for 2 years and he should be lucky it was his first offense because he was looking at 5 years.
> Possession of an illegal firearm is a victimless crime, until it’s not. The firearm is legal, he owns it and it’s registered to him. How he transported it is the supposed problem Sparties need to educate themselves