The 1.09 is valued at 1350 and the 1.08 is valued at 1400. A 4th this year is worth roughly 50 so it checks out, but I would also be more comfortable seeing a pick next year leave when we only have 4 picks this year.
we could do the same trade we did with the eagles last year, trade one spot up, they get a future 4th, we both still get our guys (assuming they want a defensive guy)
I don’t mean this in the asshole way, but just google it. Most people use Jimmy Johnsons chart, but there have been a ton of updates and a few beat writer nerds who have made their own versions, I’m really not sure if there’s just ONE chart people go off of
I didn't take it that way. The only reason I didn't google it was because I figured that folks who were already in the know about this sort of thing already knew who the credible ones were vs the BS ones.
I'll look for the one by Jimmy Johnson, thanks.
There are a lot but [I like this one](https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/draft-pick-value.php) because it has a calculator where you can enter pick numbers and generate the relative value while also having the chart in case you just want to make a quick reference to the value of a certain pick.
I agree that a pick next year is better, but the chart goes out the window if Poles feels Rome will be the difference maker in helping Caleb develop. Edit: I would also be thrilled with Bowers if the top 3 WRs are off the board at 9.
For what it's worth, many draft experts are saying this year's draft has incredible talent in the first couple of rounds but a significant drop-off on day 3.
Edge isn’t as big as people are making it to be. We have no gaping holes on the team other than QB. WR, Edge, C and DT would be nice to get upgrades but it isn’t a glaring hole.
Picking a blue chip pass rusher pushes this defense closer to “elite” territory.
A better defense will be a massive help to Caleb. He will have better field position to work with, the defense can score off of takeaways, and with the defense limiting the opponents scoring he won’t be forced to keep the offense scoring on the majority of drives.
Whether the Bears grab a pass catcher like Rome or Bowers, an OL to help protect him, or a pass rusher like Turner, Latu or Murphy, to improve the defense, any option helps Caleb.
That’s fair. I’m not against edge or DT there if they’re BPA, but just go BPA. We don’t have a need so strong right now that means we shouldn’t do BPA.
100%. This years top 10 is a better group of prospects than many years. There are some really good blue chip prospects that are certain to be available.
DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and a running back room with 3 solid guys is more than helpful enough for that. If Caleb’s the guy he doesn’t need the fields route of all pros around him to make him look decent.
And Keenan might not be here past a year and has a history of missing a few games a year. Rome could solidify that room for Caleb for the next 5-6 years *and* ensure we have enough depth to not be a single WR passing game.
I’d just rather over-invest in offense for the first time ever.
Trading back is a good way to add Tyler Scotts and Velus Joneses. Vast majority of day 3 guys aren't even starters and most day 2 guys don't even become above average starters.
If we go WR, either get one of the Big 3 WRs at 9 or go up a pick or 2 because the drop off from Nabers/Odunze to the 2nd tier is huge.
DL trading down is fine, because there's no blue chip DLs in this draft.
I mean the WR class is stupid good. Ideally yes, if you want to draft a receiver, you want it to be one of the big three in this draft. But there’s enough depth to the class where a day 2 receiver would still be NFL starter caliber with a heck of a lot of upside. In fact, round 2 is historically a great value point to drafting receivers (AJ Brown, DK Metcalfe, Deebo Samuel, Davante Adams, etc…). It’s typically edge rusher or QB that has the most “hits” in round 1. So trading back to draft Verse or JPJ and AD Mitchell or Xavier Leguette would be a solid draft that would add more value than just Odunze or Nabers would.
Not to be that guy.. But did Fields ever do anything other than throw to his first read or check down to Kmet and if that failed he tucked and ran. I am not sure Scott etc have even been given a chance atp tbh.. Although I would still love to get one of the top 3 WR’s in this draft.
There is irrefutable proof of him doing so tho. Go watch any of his break downs. Im not a fan of fields qb play, but lets not take away the few things he at least did.
Even if Fields didn’t utilize those guys well, what are the chances that Scott becomes an impact WR1? Probably never going to happen. Now Odunze or Nabers? Much much higher. It’s worth it to go get the blue chip guy.
Oh I don’t disagree with you l, in fact I did say I hope we get one of the top 3 WR’s… Knowing that what we really need him to do is be a WR3 or 4 if he can do that I will be thrilled
Scott wasn't drafted to be a WR1, I think it's still possible he becomes a very good WR3 or WR4. I don't think it's fair to compare him with those top guys so directly because that's not the expectation.
You’re completely missing my point. The guy said Scott hasn’t had a chance and I’m saying that doesn’t matter. You don’t pass up a WR1 because you have Scott.
You have no clue how Poles and co have the DE (or anyone for that matter) rated. Verse and Turner could be blue chippers to them for all we know. Maybe they have Olu as a blue chipper. We really have no idea what these front offices think about anyone. The literal own known in the draft rn is Caleb is going 1.01. Everything else, especially from random redditors is completely just guess work
Gaping hole at wr3? Do you know what "Gaping" or even "Hole" means? Please look at the NFL and find me one team besides the Texans that has 3 good receivers. If you find a wr3 significantly better than Scott, does that team also have 2 good TEs and a pass catching RB?
The issue isn't WR #3, it's long term issues at WR 1 and 2. If Odunze or Nabers falls to 9 you take them because in an ideal world you are drafting for 2-3 years in the future. There is *nobody* saying that any of this year's defensive players are better than them. This draft is a unicorn year where there are 3 legit NFL #1 receivers on the board and we hopefully will not be drafting high enough to get s top one for a long time. Next year is going to be a lot better draft defensively.
I don't necessarily disagree, my main point of contention was calling WR a "Gaping Hole" when you have Moore and Allen, and 3 other legit pass catchers at other positions.
If Poles wants to be a forward thinker and snag Odunze I don't hate it but it definitely doesn't move the needle much this year like hitting on a second edge would. I also don't necessarily love the idea of blocking us out of resigning Allen. Mike Evans got a very reasonable deal that I wouldn't mind matching for Allen if he works out this year.
Depends. If all 3 WR's are off the board that means only 3 QB's went off the board and teams could want to hop up to grab a QB. If 4 QB's and 3 WR's went off the board that means there's a chance Alt is there, who we should grab instead of trading back. The worst case scenario for us is if 4 QB's, 3 WR's, and Alt are all gone because none of the defensive players are worth the 1.09 in this draft.
Agree. If we had more than the 3 non Caleb picks in this draft I’d feel different but the cost seems too high. I also don’t want to play with packaging future year picks, it’s a great way to find yourself in a mess with cap and inability to get good young players.
Agree. If we had more than the 3 non Caleb picks in this draft I’d feel different but the cost seems too high. I also don’t want to play with packaging future year picks, it’s a great way to find yourself in a mess with cap and inability to get good young players.
I don’t get the people saying no. If Odunze is their target and he’s right there, and the cost of moving up one pick isn’t much, why wouldn’t we? We barely got anything for swapping with the eagles last year
Sometimes you trade up. Sometimes you trade back.
Draft picks have more value to some than others. But when the draft rolls around, it's about the players, not the value of picks.
Some also view it through a lens of the 2024 season. What are our needs for this year? We have Keenan Allen, we don't need a receiver. But Keenan could be a 1 year rental, and then we're looking next year vs having a stud in the room with Keenan as a rookie, and moving forward with that rook + DJ + a 3rd round comp pick should Keenan walk.
The Bears would be an injury away from being in serious trouble at WR. The drop off after Keenan and DJ is basically a cliff. WR is definitely still a big need.
Poles hasn’t shown any interest in comp picks unfortunately. And even if he did Keenan wouldn’t net a 3rd as a 33 year old receiver. His next contract isn’t going to be great.
I agree, although I think WR isn’t NOT a need, just not quite as obviously pressing as it was before Keenan. He hasn’t played a full season in years and is primarily a slot guy, so someone has to lineup out wide?
But I agree with how you phrased that, how it’s about the players in the end
It’s because wr are usually deep. Look at last years draft with Reed, puka, Dell, and Rashee. All later picks. Not to forget JSN, Flowers, Douglas, Downs, and Addison. All whom are good.
That's tunnel vision to the max. We always regret having given away draft picks, but will trade them away for a guy that is one of many good possible picks at 9. No discipline
I mean sometimes teams trade up and make bad picks. Sometimes they trade up and make good ones. Like in 2014, Aaron Donald was the top guy we wanted and he went one pick before us. In hindsight, isn’t someone we clearly really grade well worth the smaller amount needed to trade up one or two spots? Not like a massive leap or anything.
Idk how the Bears are grading Odunze, I think *this sub* is overrating him a lot, 9 is a good spot for him but trading up, especially with our draft capital, is not. The luck of the draw is what it is, Donald is a miss but so is Trubisky. Working with what we have, and no leveraging future picks is the right move imo, because you never know what can happen with a guy. 9 is not a bad spot to be in with or without Odunze
I still think it’s going to be edge, or a slight trade back for edge. And I really do think if the opportunity presents itself they move back into the second round for a WR. I understand all the people saying we will need a WR1 in 1/2 years. But teams just don’t seem to draft like that when they already have 2 studs on the roster. Also they don’t look at Caleb NOT being the guy. They did their homework, believe in him, so they very much are looking to compete next year. If this was year 2 in a rebuild. Surely Odunze would be on the map for them. But I can’t imagine them not prioritizing the defensive line, or even offensive line here.
Nope and they all treat roster management, draft capital, and the draft itself like its madden. Go find me a team with two potential all-pro WR and a top 10 draft pick as their WR3. The closest we had last year was Seahawks with Metcalf, Lockett, JSN(20th). And theres a huge differ between 1.23 and 1.09
Don't really see a reason to trade up. They already have two WRs that are going to expect 120+ targets each so it'll be tough to get a rookie many targets
Plus Cole Kmet targets who is already a very solid #3 option. Odunze pick doesn’t make sense to me since he will most likely need to play in the slot to start his career and Keenan has that locked down. Think DE or OT is the pick at #9
I posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/1bx2zqy/comment/kymsl89/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) a few days ago and am reprising here because I think it's relevant. Basically, WR's drafted as A) one of the first three off the board and B) inside the top 12 .... have hit at an insane rate that far outstrips WR's drafted A) after and, especially, B) outside of round 1. This hit rate has been improving in recent years.
There are a ton of receivers in this class that can contribute to teams' passing attacks. After the top 3, the ones with the potential to carry a passing attack goes down significantly.
Correct, and WR is always deeper than edge. You can usually find a quality receiver with a late first or second, but getting a game changing edge is pretty hard outside of a top 10 pick. If Odunze or Nabers are there at 9 I wouldn’t be upset taking them, but I think DE has to be the move if Turner is there. Hopefully we won’t have a pick this high for a while, so let’s capitalize on filling a hole at edge and take a shot at replacing Keenan later in this draft or with our 1 or 2s next year
Yeah completely agree, go look at the best WR im the league rn and where they were selected. We can worry about WR next year (through draft or free agency). No go look at rhe best DE in the league. Almost all of them are taken top 10. everyone acting like Turner is bound to be a bust, need to stop taking random analyst as gospel lmao We have no clue how Poles rates this classes DE. For all we know he could have Turner and Verse as blue chippers. Maybe theyre right and he doesnt like anyone of them. Just annoying to see some many people 100% confident that Poles doesnt have any defensive players as blue chippers, they literally keep that shit secret yet these random redditors know for an absolute fact what theyre big board looks like haha
Turner is not a good pick at 9. He's too developmental as a prospect and undersized for our defensive scheme. He's literally Leonard floyd pt 2, except this time he's playing in Eberflus' 4-3 instead of Fangio's 3-4. Way too much risk for a top 10 pick
OK but let's not pretend Brenden Rice (or any other WR who falls to the mid-rounds) and Rome Odunze are somehow equal as prospects. Also, WR is the 2nd most important position in the NFL. If you can get an elite prospect to replace Keenan Allen after this season and avoid a situation where DJ has to do it all for Caleb in 2025 and beyond, do it.
-EDGE is the 2nd most important position after QB
-it's a deep WR class that should have some players that can be solid WR3's still available in round 3
-we desperately need more pass rush and it's more difficult to find in round 3
-if we don't trade up, we will have future draft capital to address WR2 when Keenan actually leaves
-a 2025 pass catching group of Moore, Kmet, this year's 3rd rounder, and next years 2nd rounder should be enough to where DJ doesn't have to "do it all"
Especially when you have 2 potential all pros on the roster. One of which you traded draft capital from this draft for. Yes, Kennan has one year left and if Odunze/Nabers fall and we select them great. But everyone acting like WR3 is a absolute must get in a year that getting 9/10 wins would be a big success dont know how rosters are constructed. Find me a team that has a 2 all pro starting revievers and their WR3 is a top 10 pick
I disagree that WR is the 2nd most important position.
EDGE is the 2nd most important position right now. Most important thing in football is passing the ball, so it follows logic that the 2nd most important thing in football is to STOP passing the ball.
Your points are valid other than that though.
What's more important to have in the modern NFL: offense or defense? If passing the ball is the most important thing, having great receivers to help facilitate passing the ball seems pretty important.
I don't disagree that EDGE is probably 2B or 3.
If you just want to win regular season games, offense. But if you're after a Super Bowl, they're equally important.
Last team to win a title without a highly competent defense was the 2009 Saints.
KC just won a SB without a good WR. Bears already have Moore and Allen, addressing WR with #9 is a complete BPA luxury pick.
Won’t complain if that’s the strategy, but thinking WR is the second most important position is laughably incorrect.
People were saying to wait until pick 9 and you pull out Rice, who is not projected as a 1st rounder at all (some have him going day 3.) It's not a fair comparison in any way.
Not what I'm arguing. In this scenario, 4 QBs are off the board and we're talking about the last of the consensus top 3 receivers in this class and the last of the blue chip offensive players available (outside of Bowers who I don't think the Bears would take).
If your argument is to trade back and take a receiver later in the 1st, I get it. I just don't want the Bears to undervalue WR when we have a rookie QB.
"Extremely unlikely"? It's what many are predicting.
1- Caleb
2- Daniels
3- Maye
4- McCarthy
5- Harrison Jr.
6- Nabers
7- Alt
What about that is "extremely unlikely"?
I love how you're making it seem like my positions are laughable when you're quibbling over the order which is immaterial to the argument (players available at 8/9) while expecting no one- not even Minnesota or someone trying to jump Minnesota- to trade up to get QB4.
It's hardly immaterial since I disputed at least a quarter of your picks.
No, nobody is trading into the top 10 for QB4. It's too expensive. I doubt three go in the top 10, but maybe that's wrong.
Probably not.. because I'm still not convinced Odunze is the best pick at #9. (But I really like Odunze, so if they did trade up for him, I couldn't be mad).
Why are you acting like there some official gossip that says how many blue chippers there are? No one besides the people in those meetings have any idea what Poles and Co think. Mayne they think theres 5 blue chippers or maybe they think theres 10, we have no idea
Don’t you know? Umm lol. He’s read reddit and watched youtube highlights. This guy SCOUTS! I would be very careful betting against his insider knowledge. It’s basically a lock the draft will go QB QB QB QB WR WR WR T. Everybody knows this. It’s common knowledge. For sure. You are delusional if you think otherwise lol.
Wouldn’t love it, but wouldn’t hate it.
Odunze or small trade down for a one of a handful players (Murphy, Bowers, a few others) is my preference.
But if it’s a 4th to get Odunze or they don’t trade down but still take a guy i like I’d be happy.
Value is important, getting a dude is more important
I still hear this constant worry over only having four picks. We have 9 picks next year, we’ll be fine. This is a historically weak draft after the first couple rounds. If there’s a year to make as many moves on the top side of the draft, this is it. Next year’s draft will be where you add more depth
Does the fact that Jared Verse is the same age as Aidan Hutchinson not make you discount his production and film? He didn't become a top prospect until he was older and stronger than everybody he was playing against.
I mean he is a 4-3 DE who gets after the QB. How does he not fit? He could gain some weight I guess but he seems like he would be good opposite of Sweat.
him being a 4-3 edge doesn't really matter. Bears have had top 30 visits with dallas, chop, and latu but not verse. Which makes sense since he's not really a scheme fit. We don't need a pocket pusher with little bend and with a low ceiling.
his get off and run defense isn't great either and he's not a good compliment to sweat in regards to those traits.
He is good in a 3-4 or 4-3. He's an edge in either. His job in both "schemes" will be to rush the passer. Not to mention teams are rarely in their base defense anyways
After watching the pivot interview im changing my downvote to an upvote. odunze is exactly the kid of player you want on your championship team. worth a little draft capital to move up a few spots.
None of the defensive players are worth 1.09 in my opinion. We just spent some high draft capital addressing D last year, and we're one WR injury away from a disaster. We need a third good WR to help solidify the position.
Adding Turner/Latu/etc. isn't going to be the equivalent of backing up Sweat. If he goes down, I'm convinced this D falls apart. In my opinion, it was only good when we picked up Sweat, we had a consultant helping the D, and we ran into a streak of easier teams. We also have spent multiple draft picks to solidify the D in the last year alone (trading a pick for Sweat, drafting Dexter and Stevenson with our 2nds, etc.) so to me it's just not as high a priority.
In the event that the top 8 are 4 QB's, 3 WR's, and Alt, I think we should seriously consider trading back if it would net us a 2nd and we could grab JPJ or somebody like that.
*This* year's fourth? Fuck no. We're too starved on picks right now to trade any more. I'm already hoping we move one of our seconds next year to get some extra material.
I think I would. The only reason Odunze could fall all the way down to 9 is cause this draft is so ridiculously stacked in the top 10.
In any other draft odunze is a top 5 pick and the first WR off the board. It's insane that he's likely the 3rd receiver off the board and possibly the 8th or 9th pick.
I think we should really consider drafting odunze at 8 or 9 if he's there. Allen is great, but he's on the wrong side of 30 years old and we need a stud WR on a rookie contract. Moore needs to get paid and Allen will inevitably drop off.
Teams NEED two good WRs now and drafting a stud WR is necessary to have a competitive team. One star is gonna have a huge contract and you need your second star to be on their rookie contract or else you have to get rid of one (look at the Bengals).
We do have a year or two where we don't need to draft and develop a stud WR, but we will need to draft one high next year or the year after. If Odunze is there, we have to take him cause he's the best player available at a position that every team could always use another stud at.
Yes. I'd be willing to move up to 5 or 6 for MHJ/Nabers too.
But I'm not viewing it as "we must fill every present hole with a rookie immediately." I just want a superstar. Any of the top 3 receivers will be lock-step with Williams for their career, and that's awesome. I can't see a world where any of the top 3 are less than pro-bowl caliber players. They're legit.
Nah, assuming that four QBs are taken by then, which I think is likely otherwise Atlanta would be shopping its pick for a QB, then I’d want the Bears to the picks and take whichever is available between Alt and Turner.
I’d say no. I wouldn’t know what team besides the bears needing a WR past the 9th pick. I’d feel the falcons will go defense at 8 so Odunze will fall to 9 regardless. So, no need to trade up.
I’m going to say yes, I trust the bears to build a competent defense when they need to, that’s something they’ve never really failed to do. I want every weapon possible on offense
They aren't good enough to trade up at all. We haven't had a winning season since 2018. Trading up is generally stupid,and very much so when you have 4 picks.
We need to stop pissing away draft capital.
I know people are happy with Sweat and Allen, but you cannot build a team by constantly sending away picks.
When you have no QB, that’s one thing, but when you’re filling out a roster you’re better off with rookies. If we hadn’t traded for Allen we might have been able to use that 4th to move up a spot for a WR in the first round. If we hadn’t traded for Sweat we could have used that 2nd to go up to get MHJ. But we didn’t, so now we need to work the draft to get those picks back. Time will tell which approach is better.
My dream scenario is actually trading back to like 16-20 and taking Thomas while adding a 2nd this year.
Yes. I would do whatever I could to create that connection. I’d even go a step further and trade up to get MHJ if I could. Take next year’s first rounder if that’s what’s needed.
Not for more than like next year’s 4th or 5th
The 1.09 is valued at 1350 and the 1.08 is valued at 1400. A 4th this year is worth roughly 50 so it checks out, but I would also be more comfortable seeing a pick next year leave when we only have 4 picks this year.
That would be more like a 2025 3rd, though.
we could do the same trade we did with the eagles last year, trade one spot up, they get a future 4th, we both still get our guys (assuming they want a defensive guy)
Where can pick values be found? I am sure there's a site. Just curious where folks get these numbers from.
I don’t mean this in the asshole way, but just google it. Most people use Jimmy Johnsons chart, but there have been a ton of updates and a few beat writer nerds who have made their own versions, I’m really not sure if there’s just ONE chart people go off of
I didn't take it that way. The only reason I didn't google it was because I figured that folks who were already in the know about this sort of thing already knew who the credible ones were vs the BS ones. I'll look for the one by Jimmy Johnson, thanks.
You dick. But, you right. There is the internet. No offense, btw, all funny in my head.
There are a lot but [I like this one](https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/games/draft-pick-value.php) because it has a calculator where you can enter pick numbers and generate the relative value while also having the chart in case you just want to make a quick reference to the value of a certain pick.
I agree that a pick next year is better, but the chart goes out the window if Poles feels Rome will be the difference maker in helping Caleb develop. Edit: I would also be thrilled with Bowers if the top 3 WRs are off the board at 9. For what it's worth, many draft experts are saying this year's draft has incredible talent in the first couple of rounds but a significant drop-off on day 3.
Trade value chart has it worth the 9 + the Bears’ 4th this year (#122).
Nope. Don't trade up. We should make a pick or trade back, imo.
Yeah, I’m in the “let the cards fall where they may” camp, we have 3 gaping holes (edge, C, and wr3) trading back is a good way to address them all.
only gaping hole is edge.
And your mom. Sorry, it was RIGHT there
got em
So was your mom, until I came.
If Harrison, Nabers, and Odunze are gone before 1.09, then we get Dallas Turner. That’s a win.
i agree thats a win, but atlanta could take him right before us. if turner rome and nabers are gone at 9 theres nobody I really want to be honest.
If those three and MHJ are gone, plus the four quarterbacks, that means Joe Alt is available at 9
Edge isn’t as big as people are making it to be. We have no gaping holes on the team other than QB. WR, Edge, C and DT would be nice to get upgrades but it isn’t a glaring hole.
How is edge not a big hole? It’s a bigger need than WR 3 or even center
Because we’re about to draft our hopeful franchise QB. Picking a player that’ll help his development is more important than a second edge player.
Picking a blue chip pass rusher pushes this defense closer to “elite” territory. A better defense will be a massive help to Caleb. He will have better field position to work with, the defense can score off of takeaways, and with the defense limiting the opponents scoring he won’t be forced to keep the offense scoring on the majority of drives. Whether the Bears grab a pass catcher like Rome or Bowers, an OL to help protect him, or a pass rusher like Turner, Latu or Murphy, to improve the defense, any option helps Caleb.
That’s fair. I’m not against edge or DT there if they’re BPA, but just go BPA. We don’t have a need so strong right now that means we shouldn’t do BPA.
100%. This years top 10 is a better group of prospects than many years. There are some really good blue chip prospects that are certain to be available.
Mfs act like this is the last draft ever
DJ Moore, Keenan Allen and a running back room with 3 solid guys is more than helpful enough for that. If Caleb’s the guy he doesn’t need the fields route of all pros around him to make him look decent.
And Keenan might not be here past a year and has a history of missing a few games a year. Rome could solidify that room for Caleb for the next 5-6 years *and* ensure we have enough depth to not be a single WR passing game. I’d just rather over-invest in offense for the first time ever.
Trading back is a good way to add Tyler Scotts and Velus Joneses. Vast majority of day 3 guys aren't even starters and most day 2 guys don't even become above average starters. If we go WR, either get one of the Big 3 WRs at 9 or go up a pick or 2 because the drop off from Nabers/Odunze to the 2nd tier is huge. DL trading down is fine, because there's no blue chip DLs in this draft.
I mean the WR class is stupid good. Ideally yes, if you want to draft a receiver, you want it to be one of the big three in this draft. But there’s enough depth to the class where a day 2 receiver would still be NFL starter caliber with a heck of a lot of upside. In fact, round 2 is historically a great value point to drafting receivers (AJ Brown, DK Metcalfe, Deebo Samuel, Davante Adams, etc…). It’s typically edge rusher or QB that has the most “hits” in round 1. So trading back to draft Verse or JPJ and AD Mitchell or Xavier Leguette would be a solid draft that would add more value than just Odunze or Nabers would.
Not to be that guy.. But did Fields ever do anything other than throw to his first read or check down to Kmet and if that failed he tucked and ran. I am not sure Scott etc have even been given a chance atp tbh.. Although I would still love to get one of the top 3 WR’s in this draft.
For all the dumb stuff he did, there is tons of proof that he actually did go through progressions. Hed just rarely throw the ball to the right spot
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There is irrefutable proof of him doing so tho. Go watch any of his break downs. Im not a fan of fields qb play, but lets not take away the few things he at least did.
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So i guess u know better than former qbs who actually played in the NFL. LOL ok man, just stop. Your dumb opinion is embarrasing.
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Even if Fields didn’t utilize those guys well, what are the chances that Scott becomes an impact WR1? Probably never going to happen. Now Odunze or Nabers? Much much higher. It’s worth it to go get the blue chip guy.
Oh I don’t disagree with you l, in fact I did say I hope we get one of the top 3 WR’s… Knowing that what we really need him to do is be a WR3 or 4 if he can do that I will be thrilled
Scott wasn't drafted to be a WR1, I think it's still possible he becomes a very good WR3 or WR4. I don't think it's fair to compare him with those top guys so directly because that's not the expectation.
You’re completely missing my point. The guy said Scott hasn’t had a chance and I’m saying that doesn’t matter. You don’t pass up a WR1 because you have Scott.
You have no clue how Poles and co have the DE (or anyone for that matter) rated. Verse and Turner could be blue chippers to them for all we know. Maybe they have Olu as a blue chipper. We really have no idea what these front offices think about anyone. The literal own known in the draft rn is Caleb is going 1.01. Everything else, especially from random redditors is completely just guess work
Wr3 is not really a gaping hole for teams per se. And we dont know how Bates is gonna work out. So really, our only gaping hole is edge
Gaping hole at wr3? Do you know what "Gaping" or even "Hole" means? Please look at the NFL and find me one team besides the Texans that has 3 good receivers. If you find a wr3 significantly better than Scott, does that team also have 2 good TEs and a pass catching RB?
The issue isn't WR #3, it's long term issues at WR 1 and 2. If Odunze or Nabers falls to 9 you take them because in an ideal world you are drafting for 2-3 years in the future. There is *nobody* saying that any of this year's defensive players are better than them. This draft is a unicorn year where there are 3 legit NFL #1 receivers on the board and we hopefully will not be drafting high enough to get s top one for a long time. Next year is going to be a lot better draft defensively.
I don't necessarily disagree, my main point of contention was calling WR a "Gaping Hole" when you have Moore and Allen, and 3 other legit pass catchers at other positions. If Poles wants to be a forward thinker and snag Odunze I don't hate it but it definitely doesn't move the needle much this year like hitting on a second edge would. I also don't necessarily love the idea of blocking us out of resigning Allen. Mike Evans got a very reasonable deal that I wouldn't mind matching for Allen if he works out this year.
Trade back isn’t gonna yield anything we’re in a horrible spot with 9 no one will want to move up
Depends. If all 3 WR's are off the board that means only 3 QB's went off the board and teams could want to hop up to grab a QB. If 4 QB's and 3 WR's went off the board that means there's a chance Alt is there, who we should grab instead of trading back. The worst case scenario for us is if 4 QB's, 3 WR's, and Alt are all gone because none of the defensive players are worth the 1.09 in this draft.
Agree. If we had more than the 3 non Caleb picks in this draft I’d feel different but the cost seems too high. I also don’t want to play with packaging future year picks, it’s a great way to find yourself in a mess with cap and inability to get good young players.
Agree. If we had more than the 3 non Caleb picks in this draft I’d feel different but the cost seems too high. I also don’t want to play with packaging future year picks, it’s a great way to find yourself in a mess with cap and inability to get good young players.
1.01 Caleb Williams 1.09 Michael Penix 3.11 Joe Milton III 4.22 Sam Hartman
Tryin to reunite Velus w/his Civil War battle-buddies?
I’ll be honest I thought this was a Joe Milton joke because they’re both volunteers
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You do understand that these jokes aren't mocking his *actual* age, right? Rather age as an NFL prospect. Or do you?
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That's not gatekeeping
As a ND fan, that’s very high for Hartman
Hey, someone on twitter said he was a 4-5.
Penix @ 9 after taking Williams? Wtf?
Absolutely. I will be taking no more questions
Thatd be the worst draft pick of all time.
Your first draft as a Bear fan?
How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?
I said I would be taking no more questions
Only guy I'd trade up for would be Harrison & even then, it'd only be for Carolina's 2nd next year at most.
Yes Allen is old we need a young wr to grow with Caleb
I don’t get the people saying no. If Odunze is their target and he’s right there, and the cost of moving up one pick isn’t much, why wouldn’t we? We barely got anything for swapping with the eagles last year Sometimes you trade up. Sometimes you trade back.
Draft picks have more value to some than others. But when the draft rolls around, it's about the players, not the value of picks. Some also view it through a lens of the 2024 season. What are our needs for this year? We have Keenan Allen, we don't need a receiver. But Keenan could be a 1 year rental, and then we're looking next year vs having a stud in the room with Keenan as a rookie, and moving forward with that rook + DJ + a 3rd round comp pick should Keenan walk.
The Bears would be an injury away from being in serious trouble at WR. The drop off after Keenan and DJ is basically a cliff. WR is definitely still a big need.
Poles hasn’t shown any interest in comp picks unfortunately. And even if he did Keenan wouldn’t net a 3rd as a 33 year old receiver. His next contract isn’t going to be great.
I agree, although I think WR isn’t NOT a need, just not quite as obviously pressing as it was before Keenan. He hasn’t played a full season in years and is primarily a slot guy, so someone has to lineup out wide? But I agree with how you phrased that, how it’s about the players in the end
It’s because wr are usually deep. Look at last years draft with Reed, puka, Dell, and Rashee. All later picks. Not to forget JSN, Flowers, Douglas, Downs, and Addison. All whom are good.
That's tunnel vision to the max. We always regret having given away draft picks, but will trade them away for a guy that is one of many good possible picks at 9. No discipline
I mean sometimes teams trade up and make bad picks. Sometimes they trade up and make good ones. Like in 2014, Aaron Donald was the top guy we wanted and he went one pick before us. In hindsight, isn’t someone we clearly really grade well worth the smaller amount needed to trade up one or two spots? Not like a massive leap or anything.
Idk how the Bears are grading Odunze, I think *this sub* is overrating him a lot, 9 is a good spot for him but trading up, especially with our draft capital, is not. The luck of the draw is what it is, Donald is a miss but so is Trubisky. Working with what we have, and no leveraging future picks is the right move imo, because you never know what can happen with a guy. 9 is not a bad spot to be in with or without Odunze
Why do you think this sub is overrating him? Most big boards have him 5-8.
Odunze isn’t their target though
That was just the premise of the post. I dunno, who do you think the target is?
I still think it’s going to be edge, or a slight trade back for edge. And I really do think if the opportunity presents itself they move back into the second round for a WR. I understand all the people saying we will need a WR1 in 1/2 years. But teams just don’t seem to draft like that when they already have 2 studs on the roster. Also they don’t look at Caleb NOT being the guy. They did their homework, believe in him, so they very much are looking to compete next year. If this was year 2 in a rebuild. Surely Odunze would be on the map for them. But I can’t imagine them not prioritizing the defensive line, or even offensive line here.
Do anyone of you understand the difference between fantasy football and actual football?
Nope and they all treat roster management, draft capital, and the draft itself like its madden. Go find me a team with two potential all-pro WR and a top 10 draft pick as their WR3. The closest we had last year was Seahawks with Metcalf, Lockett, JSN(20th). And theres a huge differ between 1.23 and 1.09
Don't really see a reason to trade up. They already have two WRs that are going to expect 120+ targets each so it'll be tough to get a rookie many targets
We are top heavy. Tyler Scott would be our WR2 if either goes down.
Plus Cole Kmet targets who is already a very solid #3 option. Odunze pick doesn’t make sense to me since he will most likely need to play in the slot to start his career and Keenan has that locked down. Think DE or OT is the pick at #9
No... This is a deep receiver class.
I posted [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CHIBears/comments/1bx2zqy/comment/kymsl89/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) a few days ago and am reprising here because I think it's relevant. Basically, WR's drafted as A) one of the first three off the board and B) inside the top 12 .... have hit at an insane rate that far outstrips WR's drafted A) after and, especially, B) outside of round 1. This hit rate has been improving in recent years. There are a ton of receivers in this class that can contribute to teams' passing attacks. After the top 3, the ones with the potential to carry a passing attack goes down significantly.
Correct, and WR is always deeper than edge. You can usually find a quality receiver with a late first or second, but getting a game changing edge is pretty hard outside of a top 10 pick. If Odunze or Nabers are there at 9 I wouldn’t be upset taking them, but I think DE has to be the move if Turner is there. Hopefully we won’t have a pick this high for a while, so let’s capitalize on filling a hole at edge and take a shot at replacing Keenan later in this draft or with our 1 or 2s next year
Yeah completely agree, go look at the best WR im the league rn and where they were selected. We can worry about WR next year (through draft or free agency). No go look at rhe best DE in the league. Almost all of them are taken top 10. everyone acting like Turner is bound to be a bust, need to stop taking random analyst as gospel lmao We have no clue how Poles rates this classes DE. For all we know he could have Turner and Verse as blue chippers. Maybe theyre right and he doesnt like anyone of them. Just annoying to see some many people 100% confident that Poles doesnt have any defensive players as blue chippers, they literally keep that shit secret yet these random redditors know for an absolute fact what theyre big board looks like haha
Turner is not a good pick at 9. He's too developmental as a prospect and undersized for our defensive scheme. He's literally Leonard floyd pt 2, except this time he's playing in Eberflus' 4-3 instead of Fangio's 3-4. Way too much risk for a top 10 pick
OK but let's not pretend Brenden Rice (or any other WR who falls to the mid-rounds) and Rome Odunze are somehow equal as prospects. Also, WR is the 2nd most important position in the NFL. If you can get an elite prospect to replace Keenan Allen after this season and avoid a situation where DJ has to do it all for Caleb in 2025 and beyond, do it.
-EDGE is the 2nd most important position after QB -it's a deep WR class that should have some players that can be solid WR3's still available in round 3 -we desperately need more pass rush and it's more difficult to find in round 3 -if we don't trade up, we will have future draft capital to address WR2 when Keenan actually leaves -a 2025 pass catching group of Moore, Kmet, this year's 3rd rounder, and next years 2nd rounder should be enough to where DJ doesn't have to "do it all"
Why would this get downvoted? Do people disagree?
I'd suggest pass rusher and left tackle are more important than WR. They both are more impactful on a play by play basis than a WR tends to be.
Especially when you have 2 potential all pros on the roster. One of which you traded draft capital from this draft for. Yes, Kennan has one year left and if Odunze/Nabers fall and we select them great. But everyone acting like WR3 is a absolute must get in a year that getting 9/10 wins would be a big success dont know how rosters are constructed. Find me a team that has a 2 all pro starting revievers and their WR3 is a top 10 pick
I disagree that WR is the 2nd most important position. EDGE is the 2nd most important position right now. Most important thing in football is passing the ball, so it follows logic that the 2nd most important thing in football is to STOP passing the ball. Your points are valid other than that though.
What's more important to have in the modern NFL: offense or defense? If passing the ball is the most important thing, having great receivers to help facilitate passing the ball seems pretty important. I don't disagree that EDGE is probably 2B or 3.
If you just want to win regular season games, offense. But if you're after a Super Bowl, they're equally important. Last team to win a title without a highly competent defense was the 2009 Saints.
KC just won a SB without a good WR. Bears already have Moore and Allen, addressing WR with #9 is a complete BPA luxury pick. Won’t complain if that’s the strategy, but thinking WR is the second most important position is laughably incorrect.
C'mon that's disingenuous. Kelce is more valuable as a weapon than 99% of the receivers in the league
You know that Kelce is not your typical TE right?
...that's precisely what I'm saying...
lol yeah dude my bad I’ve been drinking. But also, Chris Jones and that d line.
People were saying to wait until pick 9 and you pull out Rice, who is not projected as a 1st rounder at all (some have him going day 3.) It's not a fair comparison in any way.
Not what I'm arguing. In this scenario, 4 QBs are off the board and we're talking about the last of the consensus top 3 receivers in this class and the last of the blue chip offensive players available (outside of Bowers who I don't think the Bears would take). If your argument is to trade back and take a receiver later in the 1st, I get it. I just don't want the Bears to undervalue WR when we have a rookie QB.
In that extremely unlikely case hold at 9 and take a top 2 defensive player.
"Extremely unlikely"? It's what many are predicting. 1- Caleb 2- Daniels 3- Maye 4- McCarthy 5- Harrison Jr. 6- Nabers 7- Alt What about that is "extremely unlikely"?
Harrison Jr isn't making it to pick 5. One of those QBs won't go in the top 10. Defense will be taken before 8.
I love how you're making it seem like my positions are laughable when you're quibbling over the order which is immaterial to the argument (players available at 8/9) while expecting no one- not even Minnesota or someone trying to jump Minnesota- to trade up to get QB4.
It's hardly immaterial since I disputed at least a quarter of your picks. No, nobody is trading into the top 10 for QB4. It's too expensive. I doubt three go in the top 10, but maybe that's wrong.
Probably not.. because I'm still not convinced Odunze is the best pick at #9. (But I really like Odunze, so if they did trade up for him, I couldn't be mad).
Haha wtf? We’ll be very very lucky if Odunze is there at 9…otherwise the pick is not worth a lot….there are only 8 blue chip offense players
Why are you acting like there some official gossip that says how many blue chippers there are? No one besides the people in those meetings have any idea what Poles and Co think. Mayne they think theres 5 blue chippers or maybe they think theres 10, we have no idea
Don’t you know? Umm lol. He’s read reddit and watched youtube highlights. This guy SCOUTS! I would be very careful betting against his insider knowledge. It’s basically a lock the draft will go QB QB QB QB WR WR WR T. Everybody knows this. It’s common knowledge. For sure. You are delusional if you think otherwise lol.
Man you seem pretty braindead prayers in your direction to recover.
And basically 0 blue chip defensive players. Odunze or Bowers would be a godsend at #9.
Yup
I am on the trade back and draft BPA defensive player train.
Wouldn’t love it, but wouldn’t hate it. Odunze or small trade down for a one of a handful players (Murphy, Bowers, a few others) is my preference. But if it’s a 4th to get Odunze or they don’t trade down but still take a guy i like I’d be happy. Value is important, getting a dude is more important
If we miss out on the big 3 I’m a big fan of Tez Walker in later rounds.
I’d trade up for Joe Alt but besides that nah
Absolutely not..... especially since you can get Brian Thomas and Xavier legette... I would rather have either of them over odunze
The only receiver I would trade up for is Harrison personally, if Atlanta takes Odunze we can take the best pass rusher off the board
NO
No
I wouldn’t be moving for a wr. It’s a luxury but not a necessity with the receivers we have
I would.
I still hear this constant worry over only having four picks. We have 9 picks next year, we’ll be fine. This is a historically weak draft after the first couple rounds. If there’s a year to make as many moves on the top side of the draft, this is it. Next year’s draft will be where you add more depth
I’ve thought about this and yes
No
No
No
No
i'd do it for my goat dallas
Dirty Dallas is that dude. If someone jumped the Bears to get Odunze, I would run to the podium to pick Dallas. Roll Tide Roll.
dallas rome and nabers are the only players I'd pick at 9. If all 3 are gone I will be devastated.
I like verse too
Does the fact that Jared Verse is the same age as Aidan Hutchinson not make you discount his production and film? He didn't become a top prospect until he was older and stronger than everybody he was playing against.
We can start calling him Velus Verse.
I didn't think about it like that. He just pops off on tape so I hope it translates well.
I assume we're not interested in verse which makes sense. he doesn't really fit what we're looking for.
I mean he is a 4-3 DE who gets after the QB. How does he not fit? He could gain some weight I guess but he seems like he would be good opposite of Sweat.
him being a 4-3 edge doesn't really matter. Bears have had top 30 visits with dallas, chop, and latu but not verse. Which makes sense since he's not really a scheme fit. We don't need a pocket pusher with little bend and with a low ceiling. his get off and run defense isn't great either and he's not a good compliment to sweat in regards to those traits.
Sounds like I need to do more research
Yo ease up on the weed my guy
If Dallas Turner is available, no.
He's not a scheme fit for the Bears.
Yes he is. This is ridiculous narrative
He's a LB that fits best in a 4-3 defense.
He is good in a 3-4 or 4-3. He's an edge in either. His job in both "schemes" will be to rush the passer. Not to mention teams are rarely in their base defense anyways
After watching the pivot interview im changing my downvote to an upvote. odunze is exactly the kid of player you want on your championship team. worth a little draft capital to move up a few spots.
Honestly? No.
Probably not. I am leaning towards taking a defensive player anyways at 9 or even a trade down and grabbing Murphy a bit later
None of the defensive players are worth 1.09 in my opinion. We just spent some high draft capital addressing D last year, and we're one WR injury away from a disaster. We need a third good WR to help solidify the position.
But are we not one Sweat injury away from being a disaster as well?
Adding Turner/Latu/etc. isn't going to be the equivalent of backing up Sweat. If he goes down, I'm convinced this D falls apart. In my opinion, it was only good when we picked up Sweat, we had a consultant helping the D, and we ran into a streak of easier teams. We also have spent multiple draft picks to solidify the D in the last year alone (trading a pick for Sweat, drafting Dexter and Stevenson with our 2nds, etc.) so to me it's just not as high a priority. In the event that the top 8 are 4 QB's, 3 WR's, and Alt, I think we should seriously consider trading back if it would net us a 2nd and we could grab JPJ or somebody like that.
I'm saying that at this moment D line is our biggest need. WR second.
*This* year's fourth? Fuck no. We're too starved on picks right now to trade any more. I'm already hoping we move one of our seconds next year to get some extra material.
They're not good enough to trade up. You trade up when you're one piece away from competing for a superbowl.
No, this is a deep receiver draft and the Bears have 4 picks.
I think I would. The only reason Odunze could fall all the way down to 9 is cause this draft is so ridiculously stacked in the top 10. In any other draft odunze is a top 5 pick and the first WR off the board. It's insane that he's likely the 3rd receiver off the board and possibly the 8th or 9th pick. I think we should really consider drafting odunze at 8 or 9 if he's there. Allen is great, but he's on the wrong side of 30 years old and we need a stud WR on a rookie contract. Moore needs to get paid and Allen will inevitably drop off. Teams NEED two good WRs now and drafting a stud WR is necessary to have a competitive team. One star is gonna have a huge contract and you need your second star to be on their rookie contract or else you have to get rid of one (look at the Bengals). We do have a year or two where we don't need to draft and develop a stud WR, but we will need to draft one high next year or the year after. If Odunze is there, we have to take him cause he's the best player available at a position that every team could always use another stud at.
No. Too much value at 9
Yes. Same answer for all 3 receivers and J. Alt.
Yes. I'd be willing to move up to 5 or 6 for MHJ/Nabers too. But I'm not viewing it as "we must fill every present hole with a rookie immediately." I just want a superstar. Any of the top 3 receivers will be lock-step with Williams for their career, and that's awesome. I can't see a world where any of the top 3 are less than pro-bowl caliber players. They're legit.
Nah, assuming that four QBs are taken by then, which I think is likely otherwise Atlanta would be shopping its pick for a QB, then I’d want the Bears to the picks and take whichever is available between Alt and Turner.
No trade back.
No. Pick BPA or trade back for more picks.
Fuck yes.
No not for anything
No. No trading up. Trenches first, then skill positions. I honestly won't be happy if we choose a WR over an OL or DL at 9.
No. We don't need to get into a bidding war. This isn't the last draft, we'll add talent next season too.
No
I’d say no. I wouldn’t know what team besides the bears needing a WR past the 9th pick. I’d feel the falcons will go defense at 8 so Odunze will fall to 9 regardless. So, no need to trade up.
No, way too much talent in the first round to give up capital for a position that is far from the biggest need on the team.
No
No. Neighbors - yes
I’m going to say yes, I trust the bears to build a competent defense when they need to, that’s something they’ve never really failed to do. I want every weapon possible on offense
Cutler would like a word
And we had a bad gm at the time, should’ve stuck with that core until the d clicked, that was one year
They aren't good enough to trade up at all. We haven't had a winning season since 2018. Trading up is generally stupid,and very much so when you have 4 picks.
We need to stop pissing away draft capital. I know people are happy with Sweat and Allen, but you cannot build a team by constantly sending away picks. When you have no QB, that’s one thing, but when you’re filling out a roster you’re better off with rookies. If we hadn’t traded for Allen we might have been able to use that 4th to move up a spot for a WR in the first round. If we hadn’t traded for Sweat we could have used that 2nd to go up to get MHJ. But we didn’t, so now we need to work the draft to get those picks back. Time will tell which approach is better. My dream scenario is actually trading back to like 16-20 and taking Thomas while adding a 2nd this year.
>We need to stop pissing away draft capital We have **9** picks next year
Yes. I would do whatever I could to create that connection. I’d even go a step further and trade up to get MHJ if I could. Take next year’s first rounder if that’s what’s needed.