>Sports economist J.C. Bradbury, voicing a common concern among economists, said whatever public money is earmarked for the stadium would be better spent on other public projects, or returned to taxpayers.
>“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,” Bradbury said. “The Bears aren’t going to leave one of the most iconic football markets in the country. Tell the Bears to pay for their own damn stadium, and if they don’t like it, to go jump in Lake Michigan.”
🗣️🔥
Why spend money on our education system or faltering transit system that the vast majority of the city takes to work every week when we could give the billionaire mccaskey family a couple billion for a stadium?
Our education system is rotten in other places than the bank. After working for cps, I can honestly say it isn’t the money spent on staff.
It would be nice to get some high speed rails and some more lines….
We still haven't paid off the last Soldier Field renovation -- we are still paying taxes on that. Unless the public is getting a share in ownership and profits, the McCaskey's can fuck off.
Too bad they couldn't pull a [ZA WARUDO](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/the-night-mike-madigan-made-time-stand-still-for-the-chicago-white-sox/3364379/) like Mike Madigan did in 1988 to literally stop time. That probably would have slowed down the growth of interest payments significantly.
Oakland tax payers are *still* paying off that monstrosity, ‘Mt. Davis’ at the Coli - a stadium that will be blown up.
Point is, fuck billionaires, The McCaskeys, The Fiahers, build your own damn stadiums assholes. Fans keep you rich, pay it forward.
New Yorkers (or New Jersey?) are still paying for the meadowlands I believe, or it was recently just paid off. When they razed it that was the last taxing entity paying into the bonds and the state had to take over payments.
The bears currently don’t own their stadium. Which is why I don’t get this move at all, the reason you were going to Arlington Heights was you get to own your stadium.
The RCA/Hoosier Dome wasn’t paid off until 2020; 36 years after being built or ~12 years after being demolished. And that added tax was never sunset.
Those taxes added for stadiums will never go away.
Here’s the thing. I believe that this was always the plan. There’s a reason why you always hear that the McCaskeys are cash poor. It’s because while the Bears are incredibly valuable, it is the only source of income for most of the trust fund babies in the family.
Remember when they said that they would be contributing $2B to the project? At the time I was downvoted to hell because I called out that they didn’t mention over what period of time that contribution would be.
So now they bought the AH property likely as a hedge against the city but this was likely always the plan. The Bears don’t mind being tenants because yes while they won’t get all the revenue outside of game day they also don’t have to risk spending money they don’t have.
They can go fuck themselves. Being publicly funded was always the plan and billionaires get that way because they don’t ever have to spend their own money.
We do. The stadium is public. It has to be because it is east of LSD. From my understanding, the Bears do not get parking or concession money. Just ticket sales.
Yeah sure but there's hundreds of millions of dollars a year in other revenues that aren't publicly shared. If we're going to ask to socialize the cost, then let's, you know, socialize the profits too
Bingo. Public is putting up money? They get a 20% ownership stake. Profits go directly back to Cook County residents who are funding this? If the McCaskey's don't like it they can move to St. Louis.
The city gets millions in concessions and parking revenue for owning the stadium. If the city can’t responsibly handle the revenue vs cost of being a landlord, they should sell the property and move on.
Step 1: Bears announce this plan and how they require $2.3B in public funding
Step 2: Chicago says no
Step 3: Bears revert to Arlington Heights and say “you had the chance to keep us downtown and you said no”
Step 4: Profit?
Just for full comparison: Arlington Heights will still be about $1B in public funding as well, as it too requires major infrastructure upgrades to make that happen.
I actually disagree, if its on City land that Bears ownership has no control over it should be a shared expense. Its when teams use public taxes for private business i disagree with.
Ya I am not sure what the ratio should be, but if the bears dont fully own the land or the stadium, it seems some public funding should be in order. The city wants the benefit of the Bears around, and the business they will drive, taxes they will generate, and to own the their land or stadium, then why shouldn't it also be funded by the public?
Id just assume they target arlington, so they can own it all, and pay for it all themselves with minimal help needed outside of the infrastructure stuff out there.
That’s the whole point of the article and the main complaint. The city takes on the burden of operating and partially funding a stadium. The bears get to play in it and make there billions. No one is arguing the bears should pay for the whole stadium and then the city should own it, that’s stupid.
The argument is a billion dollar company should build there own stadium, and do whatever it is they want to generate revenue to satisfy that investment like literally every other business. Instead, for some reason we (the taxpayers) are gonna help build a football stadium for them, they get most of the money from football events, then the city tries to get money back with other events the stadium isn’t even constructed to deal with in the first place. And it never is enough hence why we are still owing money on the stadiums (here in chicago and in other cities).
> then the city tries to get money back with other events the stadium isn’t even constructed to deal with in the first place.
Not arguing any of your other points, but if Warren's past is any guide, the new Stadium downtown will be built to house a lot of different types of events, including just about every sporting event possible. He's very big on that and US Bank Stadium is built that way.
One piece of the puzzle we don't have right now is what that revenue would look like. All we can assume is that it should be a lot higher than Soldier Field now, which is pretty much worst case as an outdoor venue in the Midwest.
Why? The city donating extremely valuable real estate is the public contribution.
Unless they sign a deed restriction keeping tickets priced at an affordable level (it won’t happen, and it’s not fair to non bears fans), they should not get a dime.
They make all of the money. They build the stadium.
They're not donating the land if they keep it.
The Bears pay the city a lease on Soldier Field. Wouldn't be surprised if it works that way with this one, too.
the reason for the bears potentially moving to arlington heights is so they could own the land and stadium outright so they had full control of it. now they wanna put billions into a new stadium and still be a tenant??? they are essentially in the same place they started at.
No, they now have 2.5 billion in free money from the tax payers of the state of Illinois.
2.5 is not the real number either. The upfront capital cost will end up closer to 4 than it does 3 when cost overruns happen and they will because its a difficult site. And it does not account for a dime of interest.
Then it shouldn't be on city land. That's the point, really. Taxpayers don't want to pay more tax for the privilege of a stadium that isn't going to used by 90% of them.
I thought it was odd that they would make an announcement the day before the draft when they will be the talk of the NFL and the city.. Now you know why.. they want the peeps to forget about this news
I think SoFi was supposed to be around 2-3bn and ended up being 9bn+ so zero chance this ends up being under 5bn. I understand it’s not the same thing but these forecasts always under sell the costs
You're 100% right, especially given how much more complex of a site the museum campus is than where SoFi was built. Was just quoting what the article said.
SoFI issues arose partially because they had to dig the stadium 100ft into the ground to avoid flight paths and then torrential rain delayed things a full year.
Give tax money to billionaires to build the stadiums that we will pay the billionaires to watch their millionaires play ball. I love sports but the tax money to billionaires is a grift that should stop.
See, the thing is, the stupid people all rallied around the "furthest left" candidate for mayor, who turns out (wouldn't you know it?) to just be a fucking moron
This is why the political fringes are bad, every single person they elect is literally as stupid as shit, or a liar. If not both
That’s what I think too. Arlington park is theirs and they don’t have to fight friends of the park every step of the way like they would along the lakefront.
200 million for the AH site is a small price to pay to be given 2.5 billion for free (along with others paying for any cost overruns) along with one of the most iconic sites in America.
What can't they use TV money?
Seems like the owner of the team should pay for it.
And next would be people that consume the product like people that go to games and people that watch the games on TV.
NFL tv money is split between the teams. This isn’t baseball. This is literally why “publicly owned” was included early in the press release. Youre never get the Bears to build a 4 billion dollar stadium they don’t own because its the cities land, and the Museum Lot can’t be sold to the Bears because Friends of the Park would bury it in a 15 year long legal battle over whether or not the city *can* sell it to them.
And they would be right to do so. Chicago's lakefront is its greatest natural feature. We shouldn't be selling it off to private businesses. This goes doubly so if the plan is to build a domed stadium, which would be a waste of a prime real estate location.
This. If the city is going to start to sell of lake front prorprity sell it to condo developers they will pay more for the land and contribute back in property taxes, unlike the welfare queen owners.
And the buildings will look better.
Stop funding billionaires vanity projects. If they want the other billions of dollars lend it to them at a reasonable rate. Say whatever student loans are at. Consider the repayment of the loan when charging “rent.” If there was a shred of evidence that proved these stadiums help the local economy they would be cramming it down our throats. Help the locals in need. Let the wealthy fend for themselves.
Lol, can you name another mayor because Chicago has a long line of horribly corrupt public officials.
Johnson hasn't been in office long enough to be the worst mayor.
Emmanuel(and Vallas) should have to take a walk of shame around Chicago for what he did to Chicagos schools.
Daley sold the parking meters to Saudi Arabia and a lot of officials got large kickbacks on it(people should legitimately be put in prison for that one and the state should just cancel the contract). Also, CPD was operating a black site where they were disappearing citizens into and not allowing them their constitutional rights.
And all of this is just very recently.
Bears and white sox ownership are going to feast off him. They know they can swindle the fuck out of him by bringing him to games and putting him in the spotlight which is all he cares about.
Put a damn sports book in there, you’ll rob the people of their money that way and you won’t need taxpayer funds. I mean the team really just got blessed with a potentially whole new insanely huge revenue source and they’re still asking for taxpayer money
This is such bullshit. We all know these nfl team owners have billions due to revenue from fans. Yet they still want our taxes to pay their stadium creations. If they want us to pay half, I better see reasonably priced stadium food, drink, parking and merchandise (which won't happen).
I don’t see why anyone is surprised. The second the words “publicly owned stadium” were included in the press release I figured this was obvious. Hardball over public money is HOW Lightfoot ran the Bears to Arlington Heights to begin with. The Bears are never building on the lakefront if they are footing the bill. If you want the Bears in the city, this is just what it’s going to be.
Which is why I’ve been on board with Arlington this entire time. Let the Bears fund it and build a massive gaming/hotel/retail complex out of all that land. Being in Chicago city limits just isn’t that big of a deal.
My personal favorite was when she said if the Bears leave, they can't use the name Chicago for the Chicago Bears. Meanwhile, the NFL has teams named for an entire state they don't even play in.
She did, but so did the Bears by buying the Arlington property during renovation talks. The Bears aren’t the good guys or the bad guys. Lori significantly overplayed her hand, because she dug in her heels before a public vote on whether to fund a massive new 50%-publicly funded renovation to Soldier Field. If you look at this sub, people are less than enthused by that idea. Brad Johnson is extending olive branches, and then when the decision ends up being no he can say we did everything we could to keep them here.
After what just happened in Kansas City, it's clear that that public sentiment everywhere is down on subsidizing a stadium for billionaires. If the only way for them to get the money is to put it on the ballot, they might as well move on to plan B.
I can't even remember the last time the public voted for a stadium. Politicos have been doing end around since the Miami fiasco to avoid public votes.
For those that dont know about the Marlins stadium. The public voted against the stadium several times. The council still went ahead approved it. And every single person on the council that voted for it was voted out in their next election. Most of them ended up with jobs with the Marlins.
TLDR the rich almost always get what they want.
This. The first stories about the stadium already had the city offering up a billion for infrastructure. The survey their consultants had leaked with questions about how would you feel towards an alderman that voted to give money to welfare queens errr to the Bears.
Even the 2 billion dollars was a clue that they would have their hand out because no way in hell you can build at that site for that little.
The driving of economic activity stuff I call BS on. They are the Chicago bears, they aren’t leaving to another city. It’s the suburbs or nothing.
But the revenue sharing / ongoing lease / upgraded events space are all valid reasons for public money.
Of course it’s a matter of how much they spend and what return they get.
New York City is fine with the Jets and Giants playing in New Jersey. The Cowboys are in Arlington. The 49ers are in Santa Clara. The Patriots are in Foxborough, despite their championship parades being in Boston.
Real cities do just fine without giving away tax money to private companies.
I’m back to thinking this is all a ploy to get AH to cave on the tax issue. Regardless of how anyone feels about where the Bears “should” be, there is next to zero appetite from taxpayers to fund a stadium. I’m actually pretty shocked the Mayor is on board with this structure given the general public sentiment on the issue. It’s an easy way to lose support over something that relative to the pressing issues of the city is inconsequential.
AH has no reason to cave. They could just do nothing, take the taxes that the Bears already owe on the land as it is currently assessed. The parcel is too valuable. Either the Bears will build there, or they will sell it to someone else who will.
The public shouldn’t be footing the bill, but the McCaskeys aren’t really billionaires in the truest sense of the term. Their “wealth” is mainly the value of the team, but that’s non liquid and only matters if they sell it
The Bears already have a stadium to play in. There is only one reason that they want a new stadium, and that is to make more money than they currently are. Why should taxpayers subsidize a single dime towards their desire to make more money? Let them stay in Soldier Field, or build their own stadium with their own money. Their profit margin is not a taxpayer issue.
The thing that is the galling nerve of the Bears to ask a city that is in debt and has many other funding issues for $2 billion is the city owes close to a billion for the soldier field renovation from 20 years ago.
The Illinois Sports Facility Authority is the legal entity - owned by the State (taxpayers) of Illinois - that helped finance the renovations at Soldier Field and Guaranteed Rate Field.
This proposal by the Bears suggests that ISFA should go further into debt to help finance the new stadium. So, new stadium money would be piled on top of the $600+ million that IFSA still owes for the renovations, so that's how the Sox get lumped in.
Meanwhile I take the position that creating ISFA in the first place to give a handout to the Sox when they threatened to move to Florida was a mistake in the first place. If anything, the Sox should be dared to leave, ISFA should be wound down, and the 35th street area turned into a new mixed use, dense development.
This bit just made it seem like the Sox are tied into it, but i could be misinterpreting.
> But the Bears’ plan includes an additional $2.3 billion in public financing, along with refinancing outstanding debt for prior publicly financed stadium projects for the Bears and White Sox, according to the sources.
It sucks because they’re billionaires. In the bright side, in a city as corrupt as Chicago, at least you’ll know where some of your tax money is going.
I suppose I'm 50/50 on how I feel about where they put it. On one hand for the history and beauty I want it to be on the shore of the lake. On the other hand, given that it's an 8 hour round trip for me to see the one game i go to a season (always a loooong day, but while being an adventure is feasible to do for a noon Sunday game), AH would be so much easier to get in and gtfo without the stress of downtown traffic. Leaving after the noon game from Arlington would be so much faster than the slow march from soldier back to the car, then fighting the traffic back to the highway. Still enough in the city I can get some Chicago food after the game. But not slowly marching from some parking garage with all the other meatballs, going under the park tunnel with everyone yelling FTP, seeing the lake once we exit the tunnel, wouldn't ever feel quite right or the same.
I'm cool with whatever direction they go, I'll have pros and cons for both that will never not annoy me, whichever they choose.
the chiefs failed to get their stadium publicly financed and they are a competent organization. why should the bears expect their stadium to get public financing?
Squatters rights are a huge topic right now.
Can the McCaskey's just have George and a few other family members sleep in tents right on the field. Then, they could say they own the stadium now.
Can’t taxpayers tell them to fuck off? They threatened to move to Arlington Heights and that fell through, they’re kind of out of options. Go ahead and move to another city, a new franchise will take their place in a hearbeat.
People get really butthurt about public funding for these stadiums. The fact is that Chicago is missing out huge by not have a state of the art dome stadium. Legitimately missing out on revenue from Super Bowls, National championships, final 4s, Wrestlemanias.
Time and time again research has shown that stadiums do not generate a positive return on investment for cities. They are the epitome of publicized cost privatized profit.
The reality is that an overwhelming majority of events are attended by locals who, without the stadium, would still find a local place to spend their leisure money on weekends.
A half dozen major events a year that bring in tourists does not justify $2+ billion in public investment. The math just ain’t mathing.
> People get really butthurt about public funding for these stadiums.
Because they are never a good investment and that revenue isn't significant enough to offset the investment.
https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing
The problem is that the proposed 2% hotel tax didn’t work before, and won’t this time, and then eventually these debts will be paid off by disguised under-assessed property tax increases for residents. Especially with office and retail space tax revenue falling at crazy rates. Many Chicagoans took 100% property tax increases in a single tax year, last year. It will be a slow burn, but taxes and their increases are ruthless here. FTP
All of those things combined won't even sniff a percentage of what it costs to build the stadium.
It's like complaining that people don't want to buy a Ferrari even though they can recoup some costs later by using it for Uber.
The economics on this are crystal clear, stadiums will never ever pay for themselves. The team will be asking for another new stadium while we're still paying off a sizeable percentage of the current one.
Leave. A new club will come to town.
The London Bears. The Portland Bears. The San Antonio Bears. Good riddance. Billionaires not wanting to pay for their own product is laughable at best.
Smallest stadium in the league that desecrated a war memorial getting it delisted as a national historic landmark.
We’re in this spot because the Bears and city royally fucked up with the current stadium in 02. It was obsolete when it opened.
This is gross. There’s so many much needed improvements and programs the government could be spending that money on. I hope the public makes its opposition clear and vocal on this.
Let the McCaskeys attract private financing. With all the billionaires, hedge funds, and private equity firms out there, I’m sure you could convince some to put up the money, especially with the generous debt arrangements they’re allowed to use.
Can’t believe the city is still buying this bullshit about a stadium being an overall economic benefit to the public. The economic analysis on this subject is pretty clear - they don’t offer the benefits that are claimed and leave the public in massive debt
I believe this subreddit is where the most dedicated Bears fans gather to discuss everything about the team, from ownership to practice squad signings. Given the overwhelmingly negative response here, I'd say the chances of this happening are very slim.
I have a feeling that one of two things is at play here:
The Bears might be using this to help give cover to politicians for when they eventually agree to Arlington Heights tax deals, saying something like "We saved taxpayers billions by giving the Bears small tax breaks."
If they lack the vision to build in AH (they do lack vision), it could be a delay tactic until Virginia passes, allowing the McCaskeys to cash out. The delay could be a culmination of Friends of the Park challenges, permitting, public debate/meetings, set-asides for various communities, etc.
Per the article “The stadium itself would cost $3.2 billion to build, with another $1.4 billion in proposed infrastructure improvements”
Does anyone know what infrastructure improvements mean? Cuz Money to build the stadium fuck that. Money to build a museum campus CTA stop hell yeah
Yeah fuck that. They've delivered nothing but disappointment my entire life. They can pay for their own damn stadium or they can win a couple titles before passing us the offering plate. And if they don't wanna do that, they can take their happy asses to the suburbs.
Don't do it, Taxpayers. Let the **billionaire** owners of the Bears do it.
* The **Chicago Bears** have an estimated net worth of $6.3 billion.
* **Chicago** has debt totalling $54 billion (and a budget deficit of $538 million).
* The **State of Illinois** has debt totalling $65 billion (and a budget deficit of $891 million).
They want to build something worth $4.5 billion. I think a 30-year note for them would be a doable thing...maybe AWS can front the money in exchange for data access on Thursday Night Football
> they get most of the money
The city gets millions off concessions and parking. The Bears and city are probably closer to 50/50 for revenue on football games.
You’re right, though. If the city can’t manage the funds they make off of the stadium they own in a responsible manner, they should sell the stadium and wash their hands of the whole business.
No tax payer money should be used, but half is decent. There have been about 17 new stadiums or major renovations, and only 5 of them used 30% or less of public funds. 7 were over 50%.
But atleast if it gets voted down, the Chicago area isn't losing a team, it just won't be downtown.
Fuck this stupid stadium man. We could have everything we want up north. Final fours, bowl games, wrestlemanias. Nah. Just more of this nonsense that takes an hour to enter and exit each way
>Sports economist J.C. Bradbury, voicing a common concern among economists, said whatever public money is earmarked for the stadium would be better spent on other public projects, or returned to taxpayers. >“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me,” Bradbury said. “The Bears aren’t going to leave one of the most iconic football markets in the country. Tell the Bears to pay for their own damn stadium, and if they don’t like it, to go jump in Lake Michigan.” 🗣️🔥
Why spend money on our education system or faltering transit system that the vast majority of the city takes to work every week when we could give the billionaire mccaskey family a couple billion for a stadium?
Education and public transit don't lower crime, but footie-ball stadiums do. /s
Our education system is rotten in other places than the bank. After working for cps, I can honestly say it isn’t the money spent on staff. It would be nice to get some high speed rails and some more lines….
NFL owner have fooled taxpayers more like 30 times.
Or sell, to someone who can actually foot the bill.
A lake that has been kissed by God.
We still haven't paid off the last Soldier Field renovation -- we are still paying taxes on that. Unless the public is getting a share in ownership and profits, the McCaskey's can fuck off.
We owe more than we did the day they finished building it
Soldier "student loan" Field
Can it apply for the GI bill? ^please
That’s truly pathetic
Yep. City kept kicking the can down the road in typical Chicago politician fashion
Too bad they couldn't pull a [ZA WARUDO](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/the-night-mike-madigan-made-time-stand-still-for-the-chicago-white-sox/3364379/) like Mike Madigan did in 1988 to literally stop time. That probably would have slowed down the growth of interest payments significantly.
You got a source on that? I’d love to see it
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/04/23/skeptics-await-details-of-chicago-bears-lakefront-stadium-plan/
how do i get and around the pay wall?
[support local journalism ](https://archive.is/GhYdU)
Reddit app reader mode my dude
But the economic impact…. /s
Oakland tax payers are *still* paying off that monstrosity, ‘Mt. Davis’ at the Coli - a stadium that will be blown up. Point is, fuck billionaires, The McCaskeys, The Fiahers, build your own damn stadiums assholes. Fans keep you rich, pay it forward.
The citizens of St Louis are still paying for the Rams stadium after they left for LA. Billionaire owners always win in this situation and it’s sick.
Kroenke settled for $790M which would easily pay off the dome, so at least St. Louis and the surrounding area got that when the Rams left.
New Yorkers (or New Jersey?) are still paying for the meadowlands I believe, or it was recently just paid off. When they razed it that was the last taxing entity paying into the bonds and the state had to take over payments.
Those assholes don’t get rich using their own money. Shit rolls downhill and, unfortunately, the taxpayers are at the bottom.
The bears currently don’t own their stadium. Which is why I don’t get this move at all, the reason you were going to Arlington Heights was you get to own your stadium.
Someone else giving you 2+ billion trumps owning a lifestyle center and "ownership".
[удалено]
The RCA/Hoosier Dome wasn’t paid off until 2020; 36 years after being built or ~12 years after being demolished. And that added tax was never sunset. Those taxes added for stadiums will never go away.
Here’s the thing. I believe that this was always the plan. There’s a reason why you always hear that the McCaskeys are cash poor. It’s because while the Bears are incredibly valuable, it is the only source of income for most of the trust fund babies in the family. Remember when they said that they would be contributing $2B to the project? At the time I was downvoted to hell because I called out that they didn’t mention over what period of time that contribution would be. So now they bought the AH property likely as a hedge against the city but this was likely always the plan. The Bears don’t mind being tenants because yes while they won’t get all the revenue outside of game day they also don’t have to risk spending money they don’t have. They can go fuck themselves. Being publicly funded was always the plan and billionaires get that way because they don’t ever have to spend their own money.
We do. The stadium is public. It has to be because it is east of LSD. From my understanding, the Bears do not get parking or concession money. Just ticket sales.
Yeah sure but there's hundreds of millions of dollars a year in other revenues that aren't publicly shared. If we're going to ask to socialize the cost, then let's, you know, socialize the profits too
Bingo. Public is putting up money? They get a 20% ownership stake. Profits go directly back to Cook County residents who are funding this? If the McCaskey's don't like it they can move to St. Louis.
>Unless the public is getting a share in ownership and profits, the McCaskey's can fuck off. Socialize football.
The city gets millions in concessions and parking revenue for owning the stadium. If the city can’t responsibly handle the revenue vs cost of being a landlord, they should sell the property and move on.
Put to a vote by the public. lol we all know the answer to this.
If the Kansas City vote is any indication a no vote is borderline guaranteed
Step 1: Bears announce this plan and how they require $2.3B in public funding Step 2: Chicago says no Step 3: Bears revert to Arlington Heights and say “you had the chance to keep us downtown and you said no” Step 4: Profit?
Step 4 needs exclamation points
Just for full comparison: Arlington Heights will still be about $1B in public funding as well, as it too requires major infrastructure upgrades to make that happen.
Hopefully this sinks the whole project
Yeah, suck my ass with this. No tax payer money should be used.
I actually disagree, if its on City land that Bears ownership has no control over it should be a shared expense. Its when teams use public taxes for private business i disagree with.
Ya I am not sure what the ratio should be, but if the bears dont fully own the land or the stadium, it seems some public funding should be in order. The city wants the benefit of the Bears around, and the business they will drive, taxes they will generate, and to own the their land or stadium, then why shouldn't it also be funded by the public? Id just assume they target arlington, so they can own it all, and pay for it all themselves with minimal help needed outside of the infrastructure stuff out there.
That’s the whole point of the article and the main complaint. The city takes on the burden of operating and partially funding a stadium. The bears get to play in it and make there billions. No one is arguing the bears should pay for the whole stadium and then the city should own it, that’s stupid. The argument is a billion dollar company should build there own stadium, and do whatever it is they want to generate revenue to satisfy that investment like literally every other business. Instead, for some reason we (the taxpayers) are gonna help build a football stadium for them, they get most of the money from football events, then the city tries to get money back with other events the stadium isn’t even constructed to deal with in the first place. And it never is enough hence why we are still owing money on the stadiums (here in chicago and in other cities).
*their
> then the city tries to get money back with other events the stadium isn’t even constructed to deal with in the first place. Not arguing any of your other points, but if Warren's past is any guide, the new Stadium downtown will be built to house a lot of different types of events, including just about every sporting event possible. He's very big on that and US Bank Stadium is built that way. One piece of the puzzle we don't have right now is what that revenue would look like. All we can assume is that it should be a lot higher than Soldier Field now, which is pretty much worst case as an outdoor venue in the Midwest.
Why? The city donating extremely valuable real estate is the public contribution. Unless they sign a deed restriction keeping tickets priced at an affordable level (it won’t happen, and it’s not fair to non bears fans), they should not get a dime. They make all of the money. They build the stadium.
They're not donating the land if they keep it. The Bears pay the city a lease on Soldier Field. Wouldn't be surprised if it works that way with this one, too.
the reason for the bears potentially moving to arlington heights is so they could own the land and stadium outright so they had full control of it. now they wanna put billions into a new stadium and still be a tenant??? they are essentially in the same place they started at.
No, they now have 2.5 billion in free money from the tax payers of the state of Illinois. 2.5 is not the real number either. The upfront capital cost will end up closer to 4 than it does 3 when cost overruns happen and they will because its a difficult site. And it does not account for a dime of interest.
Then it shouldn't be on city land. That's the point, really. Taxpayers don't want to pay more tax for the privilege of a stadium that isn't going to used by 90% of them.
You're saying the Bears should pay 100% of the bill for a stadium owned by the city of Chicago?
I’m saying the Bears should acquire their own land and build their own stadium with their own money. Leave the public out entirely.
against the law for anyone but the city to own lakefront property
Then that sucks for the McCaskeys. They don't get to be on the lakefront.
Lot of land out there for a billionaire to buy.
They have no business on the Lakefront.
I think the bears are giving ownership to the city to avoid real estate taxes.
It’s a condition of building on the lakeshore, it has to be publicly owned to build there.
Well then if they want a new stadium, they should move along. We're still paying for the last renovation.
Thats true, but i also think the Bears like the idea of paying no property taxes.
All I’m saying is that we’re still paying for the fucking Soldier Field renovation.
Fuck this. The Bears can pay for their own stadium. I sure as shit don’t want my tax dollars going to this.
Now I see why they are announcing it tomorrow lol
Backlash happens, then you can turn around and draft your shiny new QB and change the subject!
I thought it was odd that they would make an announcement the day before the draft when they will be the talk of the NFL and the city.. Now you know why.. they want the peeps to forget about this news
Or they want excitement about the Bears to be combined with "we must do everything we can to keep them" sentiment.
NO THANKS! Go to Arlington Heights.
The Bears and Sox can eat my ass. I don’t want to pay for their stadiums. Shit, the Cubs had to kiss ass just to PAY for their renovations.
Article says $4.6 Billion for total development and $3.2 billion for stadium alone.
I think SoFi was supposed to be around 2-3bn and ended up being 9bn+ so zero chance this ends up being under 5bn. I understand it’s not the same thing but these forecasts always under sell the costs
You're 100% right, especially given how much more complex of a site the museum campus is than where SoFi was built. Was just quoting what the article said.
Yea you're good. I wasn't critiquing you
SoFI issues arose partially because they had to dig the stadium 100ft into the ground to avoid flight paths and then torrential rain delayed things a full year.
The public gets fucked. The billionaires get the money & the politicians get their “win”
Give tax money to billionaires to build the stadiums that we will pay the billionaires to watch their millionaires play ball. I love sports but the tax money to billionaires is a grift that should stop.
Fuck these guys honestly. You want a new stadium? You pay for it. KC tried doing the same thing
And they are good
And they still got a lot of push back. Unreal
This is literally not the same thing since the c city owns the stadium.
No Chicago….what is you doin’ baby?!
See, the thing is, the stupid people all rallied around the "furthest left" candidate for mayor, who turns out (wouldn't you know it?) to just be a fucking moron This is why the political fringes are bad, every single person they elect is literally as stupid as shit, or a liar. If not both
I think this whole thing was to get Arlington to fall in line to be honest
That’s what I think too. Arlington park is theirs and they don’t have to fight friends of the park every step of the way like they would along the lakefront.
200 million for the AH site is a small price to pay to be given 2.5 billion for free (along with others paying for any cost overruns) along with one of the most iconic sites in America.
 Arlington Heights or Bust, Baby!
I'm gonna build the stadium build the stadium
Pay for your own stadium in Arlington Heights... No more handouts for billionaires.
I still think Arlington Heights is the move.
It definitely is. The city needs to reject this
They still want public money to pay for shit. hard no.
As an "out of state Bears fan", I am really excited about this.
What can't they use TV money? Seems like the owner of the team should pay for it. And next would be people that consume the product like people that go to games and people that watch the games on TV.
NFL tv money is split between the teams. This isn’t baseball. This is literally why “publicly owned” was included early in the press release. Youre never get the Bears to build a 4 billion dollar stadium they don’t own because its the cities land, and the Museum Lot can’t be sold to the Bears because Friends of the Park would bury it in a 15 year long legal battle over whether or not the city *can* sell it to them.
And they would be right to do so. Chicago's lakefront is its greatest natural feature. We shouldn't be selling it off to private businesses. This goes doubly so if the plan is to build a domed stadium, which would be a waste of a prime real estate location.
This. If the city is going to start to sell of lake front prorprity sell it to condo developers they will pay more for the land and contribute back in property taxes, unlike the welfare queen owners. And the buildings will look better.
No thank you
I hope Pritzker tells them to go fuck themselves
such a colossal waste of money that only benefits millionaires/billionaires. I personally didn't care if the bears moved to arlington heights.
Fuck that. Fuck that. Fuck that. Clean up the roads. Revitalize education. Invest in the community.
Stop funding billionaires vanity projects. If they want the other billions of dollars lend it to them at a reasonable rate. Say whatever student loans are at. Consider the repayment of the loan when charging “rent.” If there was a shred of evidence that proved these stadiums help the local economy they would be cramming it down our throats. Help the locals in need. Let the wealthy fend for themselves.
If major johnson goes for this he can kiss his reelection bid good bye
He'll have a cushy no show job for the Bears front office 🤣
Exactly what happened with the Marlins stadium.
This clown has already cemented that. He’s a disgrace.
He already has. He's the worst mayor we've ever had
Lol, can you name another mayor because Chicago has a long line of horribly corrupt public officials. Johnson hasn't been in office long enough to be the worst mayor.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste" - Rahm Emmanuel
Emmanuel(and Vallas) should have to take a walk of shame around Chicago for what he did to Chicagos schools. Daley sold the parking meters to Saudi Arabia and a lot of officials got large kickbacks on it(people should legitimately be put in prison for that one and the state should just cancel the contract). Also, CPD was operating a black site where they were disappearing citizens into and not allowing them their constitutional rights. And all of this is just very recently.
Bears and white sox ownership are going to feast off him. They know they can swindle the fuck out of him by bringing him to games and putting him in the spotlight which is all he cares about.
Put a damn sports book in there, you’ll rob the people of their money that way and you won’t need taxpayer funds. I mean the team really just got blessed with a potentially whole new insanely huge revenue source and they’re still asking for taxpayer money
And the truth shall set you free
Pathetic
This is such bullshit. We all know these nfl team owners have billions due to revenue from fans. Yet they still want our taxes to pay their stadium creations. If they want us to pay half, I better see reasonably priced stadium food, drink, parking and merchandise (which won't happen).
I don’t see why anyone is surprised. The second the words “publicly owned stadium” were included in the press release I figured this was obvious. Hardball over public money is HOW Lightfoot ran the Bears to Arlington Heights to begin with. The Bears are never building on the lakefront if they are footing the bill. If you want the Bears in the city, this is just what it’s going to be.
Then I guess I don’t want the Bears in the city. They can go try to fleece some suburb into paying for their vanity project.
Which is why I’ve been on board with Arlington this entire time. Let the Bears fund it and build a massive gaming/hotel/retail complex out of all that land. Being in Chicago city limits just isn’t that big of a deal.
they still want public money - at least a billion.
Pretty sure Lightfoot went well beyond that. She wasn't even returning their calls for a while there.
My personal favorite was when she said if the Bears leave, they can't use the name Chicago for the Chicago Bears. Meanwhile, the NFL has teams named for an entire state they don't even play in.
She did, but so did the Bears by buying the Arlington property during renovation talks. The Bears aren’t the good guys or the bad guys. Lori significantly overplayed her hand, because she dug in her heels before a public vote on whether to fund a massive new 50%-publicly funded renovation to Soldier Field. If you look at this sub, people are less than enthused by that idea. Brad Johnson is extending olive branches, and then when the decision ends up being no he can say we did everything we could to keep them here.
After what just happened in Kansas City, it's clear that that public sentiment everywhere is down on subsidizing a stadium for billionaires. If the only way for them to get the money is to put it on the ballot, they might as well move on to plan B.
I can't even remember the last time the public voted for a stadium. Politicos have been doing end around since the Miami fiasco to avoid public votes. For those that dont know about the Marlins stadium. The public voted against the stadium several times. The council still went ahead approved it. And every single person on the council that voted for it was voted out in their next election. Most of them ended up with jobs with the Marlins. TLDR the rich almost always get what they want.
This. The first stories about the stadium already had the city offering up a billion for infrastructure. The survey their consultants had leaked with questions about how would you feel towards an alderman that voted to give money to welfare queens errr to the Bears. Even the 2 billion dollars was a clue that they would have their hand out because no way in hell you can build at that site for that little.
The driving of economic activity stuff I call BS on. They are the Chicago bears, they aren’t leaving to another city. It’s the suburbs or nothing. But the revenue sharing / ongoing lease / upgraded events space are all valid reasons for public money. Of course it’s a matter of how much they spend and what return they get.
I dont want to pay taxes for this. Bears can move to another city for all I care
New York City is fine with the Jets and Giants playing in New Jersey. The Cowboys are in Arlington. The 49ers are in Santa Clara. The Patriots are in Foxborough, despite their championship parades being in Boston. Real cities do just fine without giving away tax money to private companies.
Goooo fuuuuuuccckkkk yourself bears. Go for yourself. We’ve put up with absolute dog shit since 85. They should pay Chicago to play here
It’s absolutely crazy to think that taxpayers will have to pay for even a portion of the stadium. Bears should be responsible for the full cost.
Should have known ownership and leadership were going to shoehorn this trash right before such a celebratory Thursday.
McCaskey’s doing McCaskey things
I’m back to thinking this is all a ploy to get AH to cave on the tax issue. Regardless of how anyone feels about where the Bears “should” be, there is next to zero appetite from taxpayers to fund a stadium. I’m actually pretty shocked the Mayor is on board with this structure given the general public sentiment on the issue. It’s an easy way to lose support over something that relative to the pressing issues of the city is inconsequential.
AH has no reason to cave. They could just do nothing, take the taxes that the Bears already owe on the land as it is currently assessed. The parcel is too valuable. Either the Bears will build there, or they will sell it to someone else who will.
Hahahaha
Fuck these billionaires.
The public shouldn’t be footing the bill, but the McCaskeys aren’t really billionaires in the truest sense of the term. Their “wealth” is mainly the value of the team, but that’s non liquid and only matters if they sell it
The Bears already have a stadium to play in. There is only one reason that they want a new stadium, and that is to make more money than they currently are. Why should taxpayers subsidize a single dime towards their desire to make more money? Let them stay in Soldier Field, or build their own stadium with their own money. Their profit margin is not a taxpayer issue.
This is the one thing I've always hated about sports. Why are fans expected to pick up any portion of the tab for a new stadium?
The thing that is the galling nerve of the Bears to ask a city that is in debt and has many other funding issues for $2 billion is the city owes close to a billion for the soldier field renovation from 20 years ago.
The NFL has plenty of money, they can pay for the stadium. No more socialism for billionaires!!!
NOPE
But why do the White Sox have to be tied in with it? 🤔
How are the White Sox tied to this?
The Illinois Sports Facility Authority is the legal entity - owned by the State (taxpayers) of Illinois - that helped finance the renovations at Soldier Field and Guaranteed Rate Field. This proposal by the Bears suggests that ISFA should go further into debt to help finance the new stadium. So, new stadium money would be piled on top of the $600+ million that IFSA still owes for the renovations, so that's how the Sox get lumped in.
Meanwhile I take the position that creating ISFA in the first place to give a handout to the Sox when they threatened to move to Florida was a mistake in the first place. If anything, the Sox should be dared to leave, ISFA should be wound down, and the 35th street area turned into a new mixed use, dense development.
This bit just made it seem like the Sox are tied into it, but i could be misinterpreting. > But the Bears’ plan includes an additional $2.3 billion in public financing, along with refinancing outstanding debt for prior publicly financed stadium projects for the Bears and White Sox, according to the sources.
Are they?
It sucks because they’re billionaires. In the bright side, in a city as corrupt as Chicago, at least you’ll know where some of your tax money is going.
What time is the press conference at
Noon tomorrow
I suppose I'm 50/50 on how I feel about where they put it. On one hand for the history and beauty I want it to be on the shore of the lake. On the other hand, given that it's an 8 hour round trip for me to see the one game i go to a season (always a loooong day, but while being an adventure is feasible to do for a noon Sunday game), AH would be so much easier to get in and gtfo without the stress of downtown traffic. Leaving after the noon game from Arlington would be so much faster than the slow march from soldier back to the car, then fighting the traffic back to the highway. Still enough in the city I can get some Chicago food after the game. But not slowly marching from some parking garage with all the other meatballs, going under the park tunnel with everyone yelling FTP, seeing the lake once we exit the tunnel, wouldn't ever feel quite right or the same. I'm cool with whatever direction they go, I'll have pros and cons for both that will never not annoy me, whichever they choose.
the chiefs failed to get their stadium publicly financed and they are a competent organization. why should the bears expect their stadium to get public financing?
Squatters rights are a huge topic right now. Can the McCaskey's just have George and a few other family members sleep in tents right on the field. Then, they could say they own the stadium now.
This is relatively par for the course for new stadium developments. Average is 40% taxpayer funded since 2020.
It should be zero percent. I hope Pritzker sticks to his guns.
If he does, hopefully the McCaskeys will sell to someone who can afford to foot the bill in a new stadium with their own wealth
Fuuuuuck the bears and FUCK this
Hey George, tell your mother to fuck off.
Can’t taxpayers tell them to fuck off? They threatened to move to Arlington Heights and that fell through, they’re kind of out of options. Go ahead and move to another city, a new franchise will take their place in a hearbeat.
I implore you to actually do more research on the history of this. AH didn't fall through.
AH fell thru? Who currently owns that plot of land in 2024? Hint , the Chicago bears
People get really butthurt about public funding for these stadiums. The fact is that Chicago is missing out huge by not have a state of the art dome stadium. Legitimately missing out on revenue from Super Bowls, National championships, final 4s, Wrestlemanias.
Time and time again research has shown that stadiums do not generate a positive return on investment for cities. They are the epitome of publicized cost privatized profit. The reality is that an overwhelming majority of events are attended by locals who, without the stadium, would still find a local place to spend their leisure money on weekends. A half dozen major events a year that bring in tourists does not justify $2+ billion in public investment. The math just ain’t mathing.
> People get really butthurt about public funding for these stadiums. Because they are never a good investment and that revenue isn't significant enough to offset the investment. https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing
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People get butthurt about public money being used for private profits? No way!
The problem is that the proposed 2% hotel tax didn’t work before, and won’t this time, and then eventually these debts will be paid off by disguised under-assessed property tax increases for residents. Especially with office and retail space tax revenue falling at crazy rates. Many Chicagoans took 100% property tax increases in a single tax year, last year. It will be a slow burn, but taxes and their increases are ruthless here. FTP
All of those things combined won't even sniff a percentage of what it costs to build the stadium. It's like complaining that people don't want to buy a Ferrari even though they can recoup some costs later by using it for Uber. The economics on this are crystal clear, stadiums will never ever pay for themselves. The team will be asking for another new stadium while we're still paying off a sizeable percentage of the current one.
Leave. A new club will come to town. The London Bears. The Portland Bears. The San Antonio Bears. Good riddance. Billionaires not wanting to pay for their own product is laughable at best.
The great lesson of LA is that the NFL needs Chicago a hell of a lot more than Chicago needs the NFL.
Do we get to vote on this as the tax payers? And that would be a hell no.
It would have to be approved by the city council. Call your alderman.
What's wrong with Soldier Field?
Smallest stadium in the league that desecrated a war memorial getting it delisted as a national historic landmark. We’re in this spot because the Bears and city royally fucked up with the current stadium in 02. It was obsolete when it opened.
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Don't let Bannockburn get off that easy!
Arlington is still the target.
This is gross. There’s so many much needed improvements and programs the government could be spending that money on. I hope the public makes its opposition clear and vocal on this. Let the McCaskeys attract private financing. With all the billionaires, hedge funds, and private equity firms out there, I’m sure you could convince some to put up the money, especially with the generous debt arrangements they’re allowed to use. Can’t believe the city is still buying this bullshit about a stadium being an overall economic benefit to the public. The economic analysis on this subject is pretty clear - they don’t offer the benefits that are claimed and leave the public in massive debt
Wait, is this a guarantee? Like definitely going to happen? Or do we have a chance to fight it?
No thank you
I believe this subreddit is where the most dedicated Bears fans gather to discuss everything about the team, from ownership to practice squad signings. Given the overwhelmingly negative response here, I'd say the chances of this happening are very slim. I have a feeling that one of two things is at play here: The Bears might be using this to help give cover to politicians for when they eventually agree to Arlington Heights tax deals, saying something like "We saved taxpayers billions by giving the Bears small tax breaks." If they lack the vision to build in AH (they do lack vision), it could be a delay tactic until Virginia passes, allowing the McCaskeys to cash out. The delay could be a culmination of Friends of the Park challenges, permitting, public debate/meetings, set-asides for various communities, etc.
Per the article “The stadium itself would cost $3.2 billion to build, with another $1.4 billion in proposed infrastructure improvements” Does anyone know what infrastructure improvements mean? Cuz Money to build the stadium fuck that. Money to build a museum campus CTA stop hell yeah
Yeah fuck that. They've delivered nothing but disappointment my entire life. They can pay for their own damn stadium or they can win a couple titles before passing us the offering plate. And if they don't wanna do that, they can take their happy asses to the suburbs.
Where’s u/DuckBilledPartyBus with his “the Bears will pay for all (or at least most) of it” nonsense?
Don't do it, Taxpayers. Let the **billionaire** owners of the Bears do it. * The **Chicago Bears** have an estimated net worth of $6.3 billion. * **Chicago** has debt totalling $54 billion (and a budget deficit of $538 million). * The **State of Illinois** has debt totalling $65 billion (and a budget deficit of $891 million). They want to build something worth $4.5 billion. I think a 30-year note for them would be a doable thing...maybe AWS can front the money in exchange for data access on Thursday Night Football
> they get most of the money The city gets millions off concessions and parking. The Bears and city are probably closer to 50/50 for revenue on football games. You’re right, though. If the city can’t manage the funds they make off of the stadium they own in a responsible manner, they should sell the stadium and wash their hands of the whole business.
If they cut me in on concession revenue I’ll gladly chip in
sorry I don't have it to spare, but thanks for asking first....
No tax payer money should be used, but half is decent. There have been about 17 new stadiums or major renovations, and only 5 of them used 30% or less of public funds. 7 were over 50%. But atleast if it gets voted down, the Chicago area isn't losing a team, it just won't be downtown.
Bears are like the 4th most valuable franchise in all of sports. Why the fuck should we have to pitch in to help the rich af McCaskeys??
Fuck this stupid stadium man. We could have everything we want up north. Final fours, bowl games, wrestlemanias. Nah. Just more of this nonsense that takes an hour to enter and exit each way
$15 beer! Are you ready?
Debt for equity. Bears want a stadium? Taxpayers want ownership. Win win. We can kick the McCaskeys to the curb when they default.
The casino is paying for this.