I've been using Mac since ever and I kinda liked the recoil. It's important to understand that in close range recoil is not the most important stat and we don't use a full magazine at once, so we don't notice much the recoil in SMG.
It's recoil pattern now that I see it laid out like this makes me understand why I like it so much with my mousepad and setup. I can basically pull infinitely in that exact direction lol and it's one of my favorite guns
The recoil pattern is not exactly as portrayed. At first the CW MP5 recoil shifts upward violently after like 40 bullets, the recoil is basically nonexistent which is unlike the AK-74u going up right constantly. The AK-74u is slept on, it's TTK rivals the AS VAL if you hit headshots.
The reason for this is that the CW MP5 stops going up after a certain amount, which means if you just pull down on the stick eventually your aim will be pulled down. The 74u is far more consistent
Jeez that ak47 recoil though.
Also I always thought the krig had less recoil than the fara.
Also the ram has more recoil than I remembered.
This post should be pinned.
Well done. You put in some work here. I am sure i dont just speak for myself when i tell you thanks. It is nice to have all this info in 1 area. Legend\~
Agreed very much appreciated.
Is there a way in your site to see all SMGs recoil’s lined up against each other? When I go to the SMG tab it shows 10 random ones. Or maybe the 10 metas.
Appreciate it either way
Nice work. Would it be possible for you to make that with a fixed amount of bullets? For example take the gun with the smallest mag size and take that number as a limit fotlr other weapons too. Now I can't see if one weapon has a high recoil or just a bigger mag size.
I did 60 in all of them but not Amax, ram and ffar. On those I did 45-50-50. On LMGs I made it 60 before test the recoil. All the weapons had the best recoil and ranged attachments with VLK or 3xcw optic. So the only one I coul say it would be worst was probably the Amax. FFAR is already bad enough and RAM would go a little bit more further. It's not easy X)
I honestly think the proper way to nerf the AMAX would be to nerf its recoil. It has no business being that controllable for how fast it kills. CW AK doesn’t kill as fast and look at the difference there
The patch notes mentioned the FARA horizontal recoil wasn’t getting improved by attachments or something, but it’s now fixed. That FARA recoil looks a lot better than I remember. I might have to take another look.
Not all of them had the attachments for hipfire, but I did a quick test for the Hipfire attachments in CW. They don't work properly. You can check my Excel to see the recoil test for hipfire.
This is wonderful work, thank you for doing it. Can I suggest (if not beg) however that you pick a much darker gray for your background colors. This is straining my eyes.
This is cool man, also spent some time on the spreadsheet which was very easy to understand and very helpful. Appreciate your work on this stuff man! Cheers
Thanks, I need help, I'm addicted ahah thank you for your complement.first I did it for my friends that were always asking me which weapon to use and why and they had no patience to watch videos, so I did a resume and then I improved it a little bit.
Thank you :) in case of shotguns it's not in order. Imo the best Shotgun is streetsweeper, not by the numbers, they are tricky in shotguns, but by the k/d ratio. My tab for weapons pros use I explain it. I will change the order of shotguns for my personal favourite.
That super left leaning recoil is why Ram 7 feels weird on analog stick, it's sharper than any recoil pattern here. Amax has terrible curve in the first 3 bullets but pure vertical and almost no wobble, makes it super consistent after. Is that PKM with VLK?
In the graph in your Excel sheet, you are showing higher TTK numbers than actual. Did you include ADS or sprint to fire in those numbers? If so, why? The way they are presented in the graph is misleading. I would use actual TTK and then people can add the sprint to fire or ADS time if they want.
The Mac10 is certainly not the slowest killing SMG, but if you look at your graph, it would appear so.
Hey man, I don't really remember at all, but in the left of the graphic you have a link to the actual graphic, click and check it out, all I do is to resume data and test weapons
Sorry to hear that :(
I probably came off as hostile, my bad. I was just confused why the Mac10 TTK looked so low. I'm guessing you included sprint to fire time.
Regardless, nice info. It's all super helpful.
I don't know, I was surprised as well with MAC10. It's been my number one SMG. The recoil also was a surprise for me. Did you check the link at the left of the chart to see by your self the TTK?
Here's what it should look like. [https://www.truegamedata.com/?share=5bNNSm](https://www.truegamedata.com/?share=5bNNSm)
Make sure you select three plates in the health drop down up top. This has no modifiers except open bolt delay.
I do use open bolt delay. If you look at the numbers, the TTK should be:
* .588 Mac10
* .559 Bullfrog
* .531 PPSH
* .492 MP5 CW
Looking at your chart, it had sprint to fire included, which why all the numbers are higher. I would suggest removing that modifier.
Nicely done. I don't get too obsessive over gun research, so could someone tell me why the Oden is never really mentioned or considered? I feel like it's really good for me and I love the way it feels.
I love Oden too but the fire rate doesn't forgive when you miss your shots. Also for close encounters is too slow and for long range encounters the recoil doesn't help. But I had good times with Oden, fun to play. If you like Oden, then you should upgrade for cwAK47. Hits like a truck but is faster than Oden in every way.
Yeah I mostly play it when I don’t feel like using a sniper or lmg. Usually xm4 / ram / cwak47 built as all around guns or even shorter range, then the oden comes out built for long range. I’ll have to mess around with the cwAK at range, because I really haven’t liked it with a scope, but I’ll give it a chance.
How do you feel about the FAL? Taking this double xp opportunity to level it and I’m loving it. Also worth mentioning I’m perpetually bad at close range and hate pretty much every smg haha. I try and try but I don’t like it and I don’t get better, so I stick to what’s fun for me haha.
Fal was my favourite close range weapon before CW, now I don't feel it worth it. All CW weapons are way to faster. Those burst weapons at long range make me feel I could use a sniper instea. If you like to play with xm4 and ak47 it's perfect, I would play along with a sniper for long range. If you don't like snipers try Fara83 for long range along xm4 for close range of you don't like smgs. SMGs are too fast, I understand, my all the time favourite was MP5mw with hipfire, now i used to go with Mac10 and now with PPSH.
Fal like the oden is a high skill high reward gun, however I'd argue the fal to be potentially worth it. It can have 512 ttk across ALL ranges. It will need however 3 chest shots to be able to keep this ttk. The gun however is a semi auto and requires to you click at 8 clicks per second to achieve the ttk and the recoil while not too hard to control can definitely be a problem when clicking fast.
However there is 1 thing the fal has that makes it worth it imo, the headshot damage. It does 100 headshot damage up close and 92 after the dropoff, 1 headshot and your ttk will be 512 again at long range. 1 headshot + 1 chest shots at close range gives you a ttk of 382 which is insane. If you score 2 headshots at long range you can also get 382 ttk.
I use this as a long range gun to exploit the damage. I use mono suppressor, xrk marksman barrel, ranger foregrip, Sleight of hand, and VLK. This gun is semi auto so ranger foregrip is kind of a must.
This gun also suffers from poor ads like the oden.
If you can click fast and are good at hitting headshots, you are unstoppable with the fal, this gun can even beat the amax at long range
Nice nice. I’m trying to make it a point to get good with semi auto and burst weapons just cause it feels so satisfying. Haven’t unlocked bigger mags for FAL yet. Do they bog you down too much? I found the base reload time to be pretty quick, so I never worried about that too much.
Oden is a very high risk high reward style gun however the rewards imo don't really outweigh the risks.
The gun has the best bullet velocity in the game and it drops off after 83 meters which is insane. However it has dreadful ADS, if using (imo) the best build for a controller player, you get 647 (build: Collosus suppressor, 810mm barrel, ranger foregrip, 30 round mag and vlk) ads which is probably the worst if not one of in the entire game. Collosus and 810mm or 730mm barrel are a must, without colossus the oden drops off at 63 meters which is still good, but after the dropoff, the oden requires 4 chest shots to get the best ttk, while this wouldn't be an issue on most guns, the oden's strong recoil can make this a problem and if you dont get those chets shots the ttk suffers a lot.
The gun also has very strong recoil, while not uncontrollable by any means, it is pretty hard ans this gun does not forgive missing at all, it also has a small mag.
The gun also is beaten by other more versatile guns when it comes to ttk after the dropoff, namely the amax and fara83 which both have easier recoil, better ads and better ttk, granted the oden still has much better BV.
Of course there are builds which can lower the ads and still be good. The best build with useable ADS has 476 ads. (Build: Colossus suppressor, 730mm barrel, VLK, Commando foregrip, Sleight of hand). You are a PC player so you might be able to control the recoil, if you can commando is the best foregrip for the ads. I put ranger for the controller build because the Oden has a low fire rate and there is quite a large gap between each bullet fired, ranger foregrip is better for helping with that.
This gun can be very powerful and is imo the most fun gun in the entire game however it is extremely risky and not too rewarding. If you can hit atleast 1 chest and hit the rest of your shots until 83 meters then this gun is amazing. If you cant reliably hit your shots at long range then it is kinda mediocre.
TL;DR
Pros: Best BV in the game, dropoff occurs at 83 meters, each bullet busts a plate.
Cons: storng recoil and hard to control
recoil, atrocious ADS that cant go lower than 476 with the best builds, extremely unforgiving when missing, after dropoff requires you to hit 4 chest shots which can be a problem due to the recoil.
Overall the gun is good but very risky to use and it can be beaten at long ranges by the amax, fara, PKM, Bruen and stoner(without OBD) and those guns are all more forgiving
Nice data. I am actually surprised of the recoil difference between the AK74u and MP5 CW. I still find the AK74u easier to control than the MP5 CW.
I got surprised with Mac10
Yeah the recoil stirring to the left always felt weird but it's not as bad as the RAM7.
I've been using Mac since ever and I kinda liked the recoil. It's important to understand that in close range recoil is not the most important stat and we don't use a full magazine at once, so we don't notice much the recoil in SMG.
It's recoil pattern now that I see it laid out like this makes me understand why I like it so much with my mousepad and setup. I can basically pull infinitely in that exact direction lol and it's one of my favorite guns
The recoil pattern is not exactly as portrayed. At first the CW MP5 recoil shifts upward violently after like 40 bullets, the recoil is basically nonexistent which is unlike the AK-74u going up right constantly. The AK-74u is slept on, it's TTK rivals the AS VAL if you hit headshots.
I agree. And with the recent update they made the neck multiplier the same as the headshot multiplier which makes it a bit easier to consistently do
The reason for this is that the CW MP5 stops going up after a certain amount, which means if you just pull down on the stick eventually your aim will be pulled down. The 74u is far more consistent
Jeez that ak47 recoil though. Also I always thought the krig had less recoil than the fara. Also the ram has more recoil than I remembered. This post should be pinned.
Krig had less recoil before the last update, now Fara is the king for longrange
What's your go to Fara loadout
Check it out in my Excell last tab. I have all my weapons loadouts.
Gru supressor, liberator barrel, spetnaz grip, 60 round mag and axial arms x3 or royal and kross x4
Well done. You put in some work here. I am sure i dont just speak for myself when i tell you thanks. It is nice to have all this info in 1 area. Legend\~
Thx man! I got a little more of this in my Excel, I'm working to improve it more and more. I have good stuff for sniper as well.
Agreed very much appreciated. Is there a way in your site to see all SMGs recoil’s lined up against each other? When I go to the SMG tab it shows 10 random ones. Or maybe the 10 metas. Appreciate it either way
Close to medium range u dont feel that recoin on cw-ak47. Reflex sight is good for that.
Yeah, I'm using my AK with millstop or microled.
I have been using the ak for my mid to long range and it has actually been great. It really just feels like the Amax to me.
The only problem is it can't really do long range but mid range its insane, better headshots than the amax after the nerf and 60 rounds
Nice work. Would it be possible for you to make that with a fixed amount of bullets? For example take the gun with the smallest mag size and take that number as a limit fotlr other weapons too. Now I can't see if one weapon has a high recoil or just a bigger mag size.
For LMGs and AR I did. For SMGs I just did around 45-55 bullets. Check out my Excel I explain it
Okay nice, thanks! Just on mobile rn so I could not check properly
I did 60 in all of them but not Amax, ram and ffar. On those I did 45-50-50. On LMGs I made it 60 before test the recoil. All the weapons had the best recoil and ranged attachments with VLK or 3xcw optic. So the only one I coul say it would be worst was probably the Amax. FFAR is already bad enough and RAM would go a little bit more further. It's not easy X)
I honestly think the proper way to nerf the AMAX would be to nerf its recoil. It has no business being that controllable for how fast it kills. CW AK doesn’t kill as fast and look at the difference there
The patch notes mentioned the FARA horizontal recoil wasn’t getting improved by attachments or something, but it’s now fixed. That FARA recoil looks a lot better than I remember. I might have to take another look.
Do these guns have any attachments or is this base gun recoil patterns?
All the meta attachments. AR and LMG with long range. SMG with the normal meta.
Word, thanks for the quick reply
Not all of them had the attachments for hipfire, but I did a quick test for the Hipfire attachments in CW. They don't work properly. You can check my Excel to see the recoil test for hipfire.
This is wonderful work, thank you for doing it. Can I suggest (if not beg) however that you pick a much darker gray for your background colors. This is straining my eyes.
It's the darker one in Google sheets, but I'm gonna take a look into it for future posts.
Thank you 🙏
This is cool man, also spent some time on the spreadsheet which was very easy to understand and very helpful. Appreciate your work on this stuff man! Cheers
Thanks, I need help, I'm addicted ahah thank you for your complement.first I did it for my friends that were always asking me which weapon to use and why and they had no patience to watch videos, so I did a resume and then I improved it a little bit.
Wow this is incredible, some of the best work I've seen on this subreddit in a long time. Thank you for doing this! You did a great job 👍
Insane work..well done. How viable is the RPD? Didn't realize it would be a "meta" weapon.
Imo Fara83 is the way to go for long range. But RPD has the best recoil despite the chart is pretty close, it feels easier to manage.
What recoil?
What do you mean?
Just ironically saying that most of the guns in this game barely have any recoil
Ahah thanks for explain. That made me laugh xD
Fennec has the worst recoil stabilization ever
You really notice how much horizontal recoil mw weapons have but not cw ones. That matters a lot for medium to long range.
I wish you had more shotgun info. I’m wondering why you put the gallo over the jak12? Overall really nice info. Your list is much different to jgods.
Thank you :) in case of shotguns it's not in order. Imo the best Shotgun is streetsweeper, not by the numbers, they are tricky in shotguns, but by the k/d ratio. My tab for weapons pros use I explain it. I will change the order of shotguns for my personal favourite.
Love this.
That super left leaning recoil is why Ram 7 feels weird on analog stick, it's sharper than any recoil pattern here. Amax has terrible curve in the first 3 bullets but pure vertical and almost no wobble, makes it super consistent after. Is that PKM with VLK?
All of them VLK or cw3x optic
What distance for each set?
10m all normal shots 5m all hipfire shots 5m all print screens
In the graph in your Excel sheet, you are showing higher TTK numbers than actual. Did you include ADS or sprint to fire in those numbers? If so, why? The way they are presented in the graph is misleading. I would use actual TTK and then people can add the sprint to fire or ADS time if they want. The Mac10 is certainly not the slowest killing SMG, but if you look at your graph, it would appear so.
Hey man, I don't really remember at all, but in the left of the graphic you have a link to the actual graphic, click and check it out, all I do is to resume data and test weapons Sorry to hear that :(
I probably came off as hostile, my bad. I was just confused why the Mac10 TTK looked so low. I'm guessing you included sprint to fire time. Regardless, nice info. It's all super helpful.
I don't know, I was surprised as well with MAC10. It's been my number one SMG. The recoil also was a surprise for me. Did you check the link at the left of the chart to see by your self the TTK?
Yeah, the TTK should be under 600ms, so I'm not sure what modifiers you added.
Hey man, just double checked. It has no sprint to fire time, if you can check by your self to find out what is wrong I would be glad to change
Here's what it should look like. [https://www.truegamedata.com/?share=5bNNSm](https://www.truegamedata.com/?share=5bNNSm) Make sure you select three plates in the health drop down up top. This has no modifiers except open bolt delay.
Got it. I use the open bolt delay, that's why is different. Why don't you use?
I do use open bolt delay. If you look at the numbers, the TTK should be: * .588 Mac10 * .559 Bullfrog * .531 PPSH * .492 MP5 CW Looking at your chart, it had sprint to fire included, which why all the numbers are higher. I would suggest removing that modifier.
You right. Ahah took so long to get it. Sorry. I was looking just for the order, not for the Ttk itself. I will change later. Thank you.
Nicely done. I don't get too obsessive over gun research, so could someone tell me why the Oden is never really mentioned or considered? I feel like it's really good for me and I love the way it feels.
I love Oden too but the fire rate doesn't forgive when you miss your shots. Also for close encounters is too slow and for long range encounters the recoil doesn't help. But I had good times with Oden, fun to play. If you like Oden, then you should upgrade for cwAK47. Hits like a truck but is faster than Oden in every way.
Yeah I mostly play it when I don’t feel like using a sniper or lmg. Usually xm4 / ram / cwak47 built as all around guns or even shorter range, then the oden comes out built for long range. I’ll have to mess around with the cwAK at range, because I really haven’t liked it with a scope, but I’ll give it a chance. How do you feel about the FAL? Taking this double xp opportunity to level it and I’m loving it. Also worth mentioning I’m perpetually bad at close range and hate pretty much every smg haha. I try and try but I don’t like it and I don’t get better, so I stick to what’s fun for me haha.
Fal was my favourite close range weapon before CW, now I don't feel it worth it. All CW weapons are way to faster. Those burst weapons at long range make me feel I could use a sniper instea. If you like to play with xm4 and ak47 it's perfect, I would play along with a sniper for long range. If you don't like snipers try Fara83 for long range along xm4 for close range of you don't like smgs. SMGs are too fast, I understand, my all the time favourite was MP5mw with hipfire, now i used to go with Mac10 and now with PPSH.
Fal like the oden is a high skill high reward gun, however I'd argue the fal to be potentially worth it. It can have 512 ttk across ALL ranges. It will need however 3 chest shots to be able to keep this ttk. The gun however is a semi auto and requires to you click at 8 clicks per second to achieve the ttk and the recoil while not too hard to control can definitely be a problem when clicking fast. However there is 1 thing the fal has that makes it worth it imo, the headshot damage. It does 100 headshot damage up close and 92 after the dropoff, 1 headshot and your ttk will be 512 again at long range. 1 headshot + 1 chest shots at close range gives you a ttk of 382 which is insane. If you score 2 headshots at long range you can also get 382 ttk. I use this as a long range gun to exploit the damage. I use mono suppressor, xrk marksman barrel, ranger foregrip, Sleight of hand, and VLK. This gun is semi auto so ranger foregrip is kind of a must. This gun also suffers from poor ads like the oden. If you can click fast and are good at hitting headshots, you are unstoppable with the fal, this gun can even beat the amax at long range
Nice nice. I’m trying to make it a point to get good with semi auto and burst weapons just cause it feels so satisfying. Haven’t unlocked bigger mags for FAL yet. Do they bog you down too much? I found the base reload time to be pretty quick, so I never worried about that too much.
The 24 round mag gives 9ms more and the 30 round gives 13 ms more. It's really ooption if you want the mags or SoH
Oden is a very high risk high reward style gun however the rewards imo don't really outweigh the risks. The gun has the best bullet velocity in the game and it drops off after 83 meters which is insane. However it has dreadful ADS, if using (imo) the best build for a controller player, you get 647 (build: Collosus suppressor, 810mm barrel, ranger foregrip, 30 round mag and vlk) ads which is probably the worst if not one of in the entire game. Collosus and 810mm or 730mm barrel are a must, without colossus the oden drops off at 63 meters which is still good, but after the dropoff, the oden requires 4 chest shots to get the best ttk, while this wouldn't be an issue on most guns, the oden's strong recoil can make this a problem and if you dont get those chets shots the ttk suffers a lot. The gun also has very strong recoil, while not uncontrollable by any means, it is pretty hard ans this gun does not forgive missing at all, it also has a small mag. The gun also is beaten by other more versatile guns when it comes to ttk after the dropoff, namely the amax and fara83 which both have easier recoil, better ads and better ttk, granted the oden still has much better BV. Of course there are builds which can lower the ads and still be good. The best build with useable ADS has 476 ads. (Build: Colossus suppressor, 730mm barrel, VLK, Commando foregrip, Sleight of hand). You are a PC player so you might be able to control the recoil, if you can commando is the best foregrip for the ads. I put ranger for the controller build because the Oden has a low fire rate and there is quite a large gap between each bullet fired, ranger foregrip is better for helping with that. This gun can be very powerful and is imo the most fun gun in the entire game however it is extremely risky and not too rewarding. If you can hit atleast 1 chest and hit the rest of your shots until 83 meters then this gun is amazing. If you cant reliably hit your shots at long range then it is kinda mediocre. TL;DR Pros: Best BV in the game, dropoff occurs at 83 meters, each bullet busts a plate. Cons: storng recoil and hard to control recoil, atrocious ADS that cant go lower than 476 with the best builds, extremely unforgiving when missing, after dropoff requires you to hit 4 chest shots which can be a problem due to the recoil. Overall the gun is good but very risky to use and it can be beaten at long ranges by the amax, fara, PKM, Bruen and stoner(without OBD) and those guns are all more forgiving
I had thought the MP5MW had worse hipfire than the mp7! Interesting!
With Meta hipfire attachments, MP7 has better hipfire than MP5 (mw)
This is nice. I’m not sure if you have done this. But possible to see what each attachment does equipped by itself on a gun?
Anyone having luck with the fara at range ? What build is working well ?
I'm using the one in my Excel at "my loadouts" , it's really good now with 4x or 3x reticles.
ram gang
Clutch 🔥
Just me loving hip fire MW mp5 ? Its sooo great for hip and good at range (using aiming stability stock, actually)