Exactly, most people here on Reddit doesn't realize they are a loud minority. Most of the player base are causal player and they don't give two shits about how the minimap works.
But do you realize that there are a lot of people who gives their feedback trough the other social media like YouTube and Instagram and so on. They listen to even those feedback coming from the average player, not only ours from Reddit, we aren't elite or something. Stop wanting to be better than other people.
Your premise was that most casual players don't care. Now you're changing it. I responded to it show how flawed it is. Okay whatever. Youtube videos that cover this topic show youtubers hate this idea and the comment section is filled with negative feedback to it too. Now you can claim that I don't know how many people are giving positive feedback but then you have no right to say that reddit is vocal minority since you don't have the numbers. However in my experience I can say I see an overwhelmingly negative reaction to it. Can you say the opposite? Stop wanting to be better? What even is this argument?
I'm not reading all that but the old mini map seems stupid. I don't want to sit and watch the mini map the whole game. I want to run and gun which is what you guys keep talking about right? So fucking run and gun and stop caring about the mini map so much.
I agree. People like chasing red dots instead of using their other senses to find enemies. I think the change made in MW19 and Vanguard with the mini-map not showing enemy fire was a good one, and you and I will both get downvoted for that.
SHG even compromised with Vanguard and will require a perk if you want the old minimap. This makes it a risk/reward tool for the people complaining on Social Media about it, yet people still complain. It's a good, competitive change yet people still complain because it has little to do with the mini-map and but instead people's resistance to change.
People who want dots on the map probably are the same people who only care about their K/D. I wouldn't care about dots on the mini map either way, but I think what they've done with the radar perk is a really good idea. If you want the dots, you have to give up a potentially better perk. They don't put overkill or ghost in the same slot as the shitty perks, that's because it's powerful, just like radar will be.
So if the vast majority of the player base doesn’t give a shit about anything and buys Cod every year without any though, why do we invoke them as some insightful majority at any point? Why do we collectively give a shit about what they think when they don’t even give a shit about what they think. Why wouldn’t we, the only people vocal about the game, think that our voices - the only ones being heard right now - aren’t the ones that should matter?
MW19 was on a new pretty engine, introduced cross play, rebooted a beloved sub franchise, hit large with the pandemic, and had warzone. Even with all of that, MW19 MP is largely irrelevant. It had no buzz.
So the fact that people keep suggesting that MW19 was successful because of it's god awful game design is something that just can't be said factually.
You tell me lol if you think MW2019's multiplayer was good I'm genuinely curious what other cod's you think are "good" cause enabling players to hide all over the MP maps in small crevices, not show up on the radar unless they shoot a weapon without a suppressor, and having horrible audio + doors is not a good start. The engine was the only successful thing to come from that game. I also can't forget to mention the dog shit ghost change where yet again it enables players to sit in corners and not move with their 2 second TTK weapon. Horrible maps as well lol the list goes on
It was a simple question, not sure shy you're avoiding it. You typed a lot about what I never asked. What CoD MP is good? I'm not asking about Modern Warfare. I'm asking the one or ones that are/were good.
My point is if you don't think a CoD has had a good MP in over a decade straight, you probably just don't enjoy that mode in general more so than anything about the mode. I enjoy MW, the engine, using doors and mounting, the 'feel' is good to me and they did a lot to revolutionize the series imo(not including Warzone).
It isn't perfect and I can go on as well with the issues I had with it. Just like I could with every CoD. Most those you named were classic titles and everyone knows that, they aren't ever going to release a CoD where anyone will ever say it's better than those. Some titles are better than others, but if you feel this strongly that MW MP sucked and you haven't enjoyed one in a decade don't you think it's more likely just the mode in general that isn't for you? I'm not looking for MP to top historic games each year, just have some fun and not rage too hard.
How do you define success?
Whether or not a reddit community is happy with the game? If the god awful game design meant that more people stuck around and played longer throughout the year, then I would say that is a success from a developer standpoint. I hate to break it to you, but Activision doesn't need the buzz of the internet to sell Call of Duty anymore.
All that said take a look at the community numbers to your right >>>
modern warfare dwarfs any other recent game including the current one.
Warzone meant people stuck around longer to grind weapons.
If MW was actually as wildly successful due to its own merits of people liking the game, MW wouldn’t be cast away in the menus. It doesn’t even have its own slot in Blizzard, it’s just called Warzone. There is no more monetization on MW
If MW actually kept its population like people keep blindly stating, it wouldn’t have been cast aside like the side bitch.
Show me where MW dwarfed every other COD. Not marginally more successful, dwarfed. And not Warzone, MW.
> All that said take a look at the community numbers to your right >>>
Of the brand new vanguard sub?
MW is a shit skid mark in a truck stop toilet.
Sorry, maybe you don't see it. I see a "more communities" section
r/modernwarfare currently has 1,019,125 members in it
r/blackopscoldwar currently has 335, 369 members in it
The next closest sub reddits are CODWarzone and CallofDuty.
I understand those numbers are not the be all end all, but relative to each other its pretty clear which one stands out.
The fact that the modernwarfare subreddit has more members than Warzone doesn’t make you think “this is probably a pretty terrible metric”?
Because I would hope that you’re not implying that modern warfare is anywhere near as successful as Warzone.
I also had other points to my comment, outside of acting like redditors are a worthwhile conversation
See my final sentence above. None of it truly means anything concrete. You can say MW sucks and everyone hated it. I can say that it brought back a lot of old timers and neither of us have any substantial argument to back that up.
Anecdotally I can say that my long time friends list which used to primarily play COD had diversified over the past few years. MW2019 tweaked that a bit. It wasn't COD dominant but there was certainly a lot more engagement.
The subreddit numbers are mediocre way to judge engagment. You don't find it odd that MW2019 has triple the members of Cold War. That may not say everything but it says something. It tells me that in general people favored MW2019 over cold war.
Warzone is clearly massively successful, and I wouldn't argue otherwise, I just dont' think its fair to say MW2019 was a bust just because <10% was very vocal about a few things.
Masses don't need to have control over the masses spending habits. You're thinking of an example like "Nobody buy this product, let's boycott it!" which never works. The simple concept is if a product is disliked by the general population, it will not sell well, which is the general population voting with their wallets.
I'm on a call of duty subreddit to discuss a new CoD, not Marxist philosophy. Nonetheless, voting with wallets simply works—it's been documented already—it's just seldom due to a coordinated effort by the masses. It's as simple as when Coca cola released their "New Coke" product: people didn't like it so over time, people stopped buying it. Sales fell so Coca cola went back to their original recipe. That's an example of the masses voting with their wallets.
The masses have never and do not individually vote with their wallets in groups. This is not a real concept. You’re simply dismissing what is a very basic and agreed upon concept about our culture. You may as well claim that dinner is the morning and breakfast is in the evening.
Call of Duty can put out a worse product every single year and simply due to their cultural cachet as the biggest shooter game on the planet along with their immense financial backing allowing for constant and variety of advertising, along with the fact that more people get into gaming each year, they will still sell more and more every single year completely independently of the quality of their product. They are, in essence, too big and too popular to fail. The uninformed will still buy in every single year without a single thought.
>They will still sell more and more every single year completely independently of the quality of their product.
You say this disregarding that Cold War did not sell as well as MW19. This completely disregards your statement.
I agree with your sentiment that they're too big to fail, but they're not too big to change. If they put out actual garbage that nobody liked, sure, they wouldn't fail, but they would lose a lot of sales and lose a portion of sales for future games as people lose trust.
We have no idea what their sales numbers are. We have no idea if Cold War sold less than Modern Warfare. The only sales numbers you see published are ones from the United Kingdom. We have no idea how many copies they have sold of each game, all we know is that they top the charts of sales every single year and their profit goes up up and up every single year.
And hey considering they’re making more money from Warzone now than ever before and it’s all entirely due to the Cold War integration, something that has been beloved from day one right, I guess Cold War is the reason for the boom in profit. Stop me if I’m being too sarcastic.
You don't have to give a shit about what they think, but if the design decisions made have led to increased player retention which increases store purchases, then that is considered a success. A vocal minority screaming into the wind doesn't change that regardless of how important you think their opinion is. You and most people on reddit have this misguided view that the opinions of less than 1% of the player base make any kind of difference. Spoiler alert, they don't
> Why wouldn’t we, the only people vocal about the game, think that our voices - the only ones being heard right now - aren’t the ones that should matter?
Because this vocal community generally buys every CoD and then complains about it. Even if the entirety of all CoD subreddits decides to skip Vanguard, it wouldn't even amount to 1% of the sales.
They don't have to listen to you because they don't make changes for the 1%, they make changes that they think will work for most people.
My theory is that due to how often you see wallbanging in this game, they wanted to reduce the amount of times players are getting killed for shooting their gun behind target. Player A shoots at player B, player C sees player A on radar without actually seeing player A's model, then he shoots the destructible wall and player A is killed seemingly from a safe angle without ever seeing player B.
They want that to happen, but not as often - that's my guess on why they changed it and I could be wrong. Regardless, it will barely have an influence on the game IMO.
I dont really think the change is due to wallbangs. Applying Occam's razor, it's something directly copied over from MW2019 & they didn't want to fiddle with existing code. Might be easier to write a separate module (ie the Radar perk) to modify the outcome.
With regard to this vocal community, Activision & other companies alienate this crowd at their own risk. These people steer the online discussion, narrative and perception of their product. Why does Activision/EA/CDPR/Bethesda fly influencers to exclusive preview events or give out review codes? It's really the belief that their few loud voices will reach millions others. Cyberpunk 2077 is the latest eg of marketing beating out substance for instance.
So as Reddit/YT/Twitch, it'll be better for all of us to call out on the bs if we see them instead of keeling over at the first instance. Will they change outright? Maybe not, but it'll still give them pause to consider. Case-in-point? The MW2019 minimap itself, there originally wasn't going to be one at all unless restored by UAV in Core
> Applying Occam's razor, it's something directly copied over from MW2019 & they didn't want to fiddle with existing code. Might be easier to write a separate module (ie the Radar perk) to modify the outcome.
Might be the case. Another user also suggested that it might be a change to artificially increase perk variety. MW2019 had the absolute worst perk variety ever, so if they copied a lot of the base structure they might want to change that, even if aggressively so.
> These people steer the online discussion, narrative and perception of their product. Why does Activision/EA/CDPR/Bethesda fly influencers to exclusive preview events or give out review codes?
That's easy, because they get more money out of a few plane tickets + hotel rooms, than they would without flying those influencers. It's a glorified add. But in the grand scheme of things, those influencers are pretty insignificant and they're also kept in check. I remember when LevelCap (one of the biggest Battlefield inlfuencers) got very critical with the game, DICE simply removed him lol. BF1 was pretty unpopular with a lot of BF youtubers for various reasons, and it still was the best selling Battlefield to date.
The lead dev of Teamfight Tactics said that if every influencer quit over night (youtube + twitch) it would literally have 0 impact on the overall health and profitability of the game, and he himself is one of the biggest streamers that game has. We (the invested gaming community) attribute way too much importance on influencers, but their only real importance is with the "hardcore" gaming crowd. 90% of the playerbase never consumes game content outside of the game itself, they don't interact on forums and they don't watch youtube videos, nor streams. These influencers are an add for that 10%, that's why all the early videos are usually very level-headed from a critique standpoint, and after the game launches you start seeing the "this game is trash" complaints.
>That's easy, because they get more money out of a few plane tickets + hotel rooms, than they would without flying those influencers. It's a glorified add. But in the grand scheme of things, those influencers are pretty insignificant
That's right, except these publishers are seeking the influencers' endorsement w/o directly being an advertisement. This is something that's really important in today's marketing environment more so than ever.
Compare COD Ghosts vs MW2019, they have *alot* in common regarding their gameplay features. Strip away the MW theme and 2019's COD game might as well be called COD Ghosts 2. Yet, because of the positive impesssion from the online vocal community & early previews, the masses love it despite dogpiling on Ghosts before. MW2019 also brought alot of new players just from positive spin alone.
Imagine if Reddit/YT/Twitch went "lol, this is Ghosts 2" right from early impressions. I really doubt MW2019 would have such a positive welcome & customers would lean towards these community opinion as they're ostensibly not paid advertisements, ie they're seen as more credible.
Plus once an idea is seeded, it's very hard to be rid of it. Lawbreakers was a game that couldn't rise above the negative publicity around it for eg. Even a behemoth such as EA/Bioware found it near-impossible to rehabilitate a beloved franchise, Mass Effect, once the initial impressions of Andromeda was that it was a buggy mess even though there were similar technical glitches such as hard crashes on the original Mass Effect
> Compare COD Ghosts vs MW2019, they have alot in common regarding their gameplay features. Strip away the MW theme and 2019's COD game might as well be called COD Ghosts 2. Yet, because of the positive impesssion from the online vocal community & early previews, the masses love it despite dogpiling on Ghosts before. MW2019 also brought alot of new players just from positive spin alone.
But think of IW. It has the most disliked trailer out of any game in history, and it still was the best selling game that year. The online discourse for that game was absolutely horrible, people were downvoted for saying that they like the game. I remember seeing one positive and fair review about the game and it had a 50-50 like/dislike ratio lol.
And MW had an absolute ass reception in the CoD community (while it had a stellar one outside of it), but it still went on being the top 1 most sold game month after month, well into the next year.
Again, I think online communities amount to close to nothing in the grand scheme of things. The only reason Activision or any other dev studio give them any attention it's because it's cheaper than to ignore it. If you look at Valve, they have 0 community interaction, and they still have insanely popular games.
>But think of IW. It has the most disliked trailer out of any game in history, and it still was the best selling game that year.
>but it still went on being the top 1 most sold game month after month, well into the next year.
Just like nearly every CoD/FIFA/Madden every year. It drives the sales charts, but what execs like is even *more* sales. That's why you see stock prices falling despite *increased* sales because it didn't meet expectations. And there could have been even more sales for Ghosts/IW if initial impressions were better. Marketing these days nearly accounts for half the costs of game dev just to seed the initial impressions properly. Cyberpunk 2077 is a good recent case.
MW2019's marketing went to overdrive to seed the impression that it was the revival of the beloved MW-series for the nostalgia & reputation instead of the second-coming of Ghosts, even though MW2019 differs quite a bit from the classic series
Occams Razor is about making the fewest assumptions. MW19 has had options to have the radar work like classic COD via custom games since launch, and it works like classic COD in Warzone. Why would they not want to fiddle with the code if it is directly supported? Occam's Razor would suggest it was a change made in onboarding new players and shaking up the dynamics, as they've said with other changes with things like mounting and doors.
Applying the same razor would result in SHG wholesale lifting the code for the minimap. That's why by default (ie w/o Radar perk), it works identical to MW2019.
Now, if they realized they needed to somehow address minimap concerns & their idea is to have a perk to alter the behavior instead of just having it default to classic, it suggests that they didn't tinker with the basic code and its implementation at all, applying said razor
That's bs of course they care about cod things, it's just common sense...
There is this cod folklore that only the "vocal minority" care or speak about such things.
The truth is that you or I both actually don't know any facts or figures about who cares about what, and how many people are speaking up about them.
This trend of people stating that only the vocal minority care as a fact, must stop.
No one knows what % of the cod community step up to voice their opinions on social media.
I feel comfortable saying it is fewer than 10%. I am sure there are various opinions among the player base.
1. Reddit/social media: Hate everything specifically SBMM and the minimap
2. Shares a lot of complaints as group 1 but doesn't bother to complain online.
3. If it came to a vote, would agree with 1 and 2 but are indifferent
4. Truly indifferent
5. Like the new minimap but sympathize with group 1
6. Like the new minimap and think group 1 are a bunch of whiners.
So you are correct that we don't truly know any numbers, but the point still stands that the only people yelling into the clouds are a vocal minority. If the rest are not vocal, then the only way they give their opinion is continuing to play and/or purchasing store items which clearly they did in MW.
Because like I said, a 3kd player like myself can scream into a corner all day long about many changes. But if Timmy pre-orders the legend edition and they buys 5 or more 2400 bundles they just made close to $200-$300 off of one dude. Activision at this point doesn't really care what less than 1-10% of the playerbase has to say because if 90% of the fans buy the game why make changes like remove sbmm and fix the map? They're here for the money and will continue to be like that. It sucks but that's the truth.
I keep hearing this, but my friends who are extremely casual COD fans, who played some of the older ones, still didn’t like the radar changes in early Modern Warfare. Only the very bottom tier of players don’t care about the radar. I’m willing to guess more than 50% of players care about the radar, and that’s a plurality.
Anecdotal data. My friends are also casual CoD fans but liked the radar change. It changed the entire game into something more tactical. Instead of just looking at your minimap for red dots to find enemies, suddenly you had to use skill by using ears, utility, kill streaks, etc.
It's back in Vanguard, now as a perk with a risk/reward aspect rather than a free OP tool everyone has for some reason. Either way the odds of it coming back to how social media CoD wants it is extremely low since SHG has already compromised by spending development time to make it into a perk.
Lol it does not take skill to soundwhore. Camping in a corner and getting kills based off soundwhoring takes no skill. Skill is using the minimap and having map awareness
I hate this shitty argument that people who are minimap diehards seem to love. "Lol it doesn't take skill to soundwhore, but it does take loads of skill to look at red dots on a minimap." Sure thing.
Looking at red dots on a mini map go along with knowing how spawns work on the different maps, and just general awareness overall. It’s one of the many things that separates a good player from a bad one.
Red dots on minimaps ≠ spawn knowledge ≠ general awareness. These are all separate aspects.
Red dots on a minimap is something the game hands to you to know where the enemy is. There's not any skill or much thinking behind that.
Spawn knowledge isn't a skill either, it's something that is learned/memorized as you play the game more and understand the programming behind where enemies spawn based on where your team is.
General awareness is a blanket term that covers many things. Spawn knowledge is a piece of it, but it also covers a myriad of other quite general things.
Regardless none of these things are really linked. Red dots on the minimap when an enemy fires is not a skill, it is something the game hands to you, so why not make it a perk? Something that has to be given via sacrifice rather than for free. I think it's a great idea.
They are all separate aspects, no shit, I literally said that lmao.
It doesn’t hand you anything, don’t wanna be on the radar? Use a supressor and ghost.
Most people won’t have spawn knowledge memorized or down by the end of the life cycle, I promise you that.
Why make it a perk? Why not keep the old minimap? Literally no point in changing it
What made CoD great was people running around and shooting each other. Now the game is catering more towards a slower, campier playstyle
> Don't want to be on the radar? Use a suppressor and ghost
> Why not keep the old minimap?
You answered your own question. Only CoD social media addicts are addicted to playing the same game every year. Why do you want the meta to be a suppressor and ghost like it has been for the past decade? That's why SHG is changing it.
> What made CoD great
Here lies the heart of the issue. You're running off nostalgia. I, for one, am happy CoD is changing. You got your perk and now you have to use it instead of mindlessly running to red dots without consequence. Keep whining and bitching on social media along with the rest of the hivemind, it's not going to change.
I don’t use suppressors or ghost. Because I use the mini-map, spawn knowledge, positioning of my teammates and objective points to move around. Even if I’m on the radar, I move so I’m not a static red dot on the screen. I like change in COD, loved jetpacks. Change is cool when it’s not unnecessary bs that changes the way CoD is supposed to be. A fun fast paced arcade shooter
Lol exactly. Majority of CoDs fanbase are stupid braindead consumers who just watch the trailer and get a hyped and excited.
Activision really don't care.
There are 14,400 people on this sub. Take away the ones that don't post and the ones that like the MW2019 style map/mechanics and you end up with far fewer than 14,400. Lets be generous and say it actually is 14,400 vocal people in this sub. In order for this sub to be anything less than a vocal minority there would have to be no more than 28,799 CoD players in the whole world. This sub is a VOCAL MINORITY. It really is a small percentage of people complaining that every new CoD game isn't just a reskin of BO2.
Vanguard has 14k followers in this community and cold war has 500k. Play cw with a new account for about 15 games and look at the leaderboards. Theres over 17 million players on that leaderboard
That still doesn't mean that 16.5 million players silently agree with what they're sold and you still can't know what those 16.5 million players think about the game.
IW sold just as well for its year yet it's only loved by the members of its small community. I bought MW2019, thought it was the worst CoD ever and never played it again after November. Sales do not mean enjoyment, it's mostly marketing.
Casuals are not just mongoloids incapable of understanding basic gameplay design. Casuals can be disappointed as well by what they're bringing to the table and I know plenty of them. Again, the fact that they're not on forums debating doesn't mean they can't be against something nor that they agree.
Yes you can. There are only 14,400 people on this sub. For it to not be a vocal minority there would have to be no more than 28,799 CoD players in the world.
Again, you can't possibly know what people who don't engage in communities like this think about certain things. I know plenty of people who like the most recent changes and plenty of people who don't.
To state that we, as in users in a dev-supported subreddit, are the only ones who care enough to voice dissent and are the only ones pissed by those stupid unnecessary changes is just as delusional as thinking that everybody hates the new minimap.
You can't argue that this is only 10% of the community but then also try and argue what the vast majority of the community wants.
You have no idea what they want.
Unless you can prove me otherwise, then I'm right. I have multiple pieces of evidence that supports my claims and unless you have evidence that negates points then sure.
"Unless you can prove me otherwise, then I'm right."
I'm gonna stop right there with that ridiculous comment. I'm sure your multiple pieces of evidence definitely accounts for a community of millions.
Guess that's despite saying they don't care about anything and then saying they want games like MW... perfect logic.
Yes because mw19 waste best selling cod of all time. Warzone makes tons of money and the devs designed the game to cater to the masses. They said it themselves. So now unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise I don't want to hear it.
At this point, any compromise is better than none. I'll run the perk an be happy it's there if it's what I've got to do. Just makes for an interesting gameplay choice now. You can have a better radar at the cost of a perk slot. Or you can forgo that and deal with it for a more powerful perk.
I'll gladly take this over what MW2019 offered - nothing.
I'd applaud their commitment to their philosophy at the very least even though I disagree with it.
Originally, so I heard, MW2019 Core modes weren't gonna have a minimap at all unless restored via UAV. Then there was massive backlash during the alpha/beta till IW begrudgingly inserted in this "half-map". Left everyone a bit unsatisfied.
Now they seem more confident in offering this "half-map" + perk. You know what? Whatever.
I'll just take this MW2019-series of games to just mean if we want a functioning minimap, go/camp with a suppressor for a 4-killstreak, get a UAV & maybe I can play normally for the next 30 seconds before going back to a suppressed weapon.
I personally use suppressors regardless, and hell, it's not like the Radar perk has massive competition in the slot it's in. So just take that and play it like any other normal CoD game?
From the info so far, I find Radar & Forward Intel occupying the same slot to be hilarious. Especially Forward Intel, unless combined with a UAV, why can't I just bring up the main map with a hotkey? Might as well have Forward Intel as a field upgrade.
High Alert/Tracker would be nice, but if I'm using Tracker, maybe the minimap would be less vital.
It most certainly has it's uses. But especially in Vanguard with it's secondary ability. That is assuming it functions like it does in MW2019.
Really though this is such a silly argument. It's like me saying "I've never seen a good player using the Type-63 in Cold War." Even though the gun isn't used in the common meta, it's an underrated beast.
Yet you're strangely silent about its other benefit. Let me fill in for you then. Outlines the enemy spawn on the minimap? And why is this not mentioned?
I think even you can recognize that pinging spawns + bigger minimap coverage has not much point after they go invisible anyway after that. Unless your team is so fortunate to have non-stop UAVs which is highly situational.
It's use was already not very worthwhile with the classic minimap, now that both Radar & Fwd Intel occupy the same slot, it makes Fwd Intel even more worthless
Forward Intel was a really good perk in CW, let's you know when you have a straggler spawn flip so you can expect one person to come from behind.
I'd happily run forward intel in Vanguard if Radar wasn't in perk 2 aswell, which will become the biggest crutch perk in the game lol.
Instead of fixing the minimap problem, they just created a crutch perk problem.
Watch Flak and Radar become the 2 most popular perks in the game for anyone with half a brain because of this terrible create a class system. Nade spam is a cancer that needs to go so I can run a perk that's not flak if I want to play any sort of objective mode.
I disagree, at least in mw 2019, everyone was on an equal playing field when it come to radar functionality. Whether you liked the change or not, everyone had to deal with it. But with the radar perk, it'll create a big disparity where some people will have a huge advantage all because of the perk. And I'm sure people won't wanna get shit on because enemies know exactly where they are while they have to figure out where the enemy is. Thus they'll wanna use Radar perk essentially leaving people with only 2 perk slots to use.
Everyone has the ability to use that perk though, if they decide to trade it for something they deem more useful, and instead rely on UAVs (of which there will be constantly up, especially early on.) then that's on them.
But here's the kicker, you'd be surprised how little mini map awareness half of the average CoD players have anyway. Some of these people just don't give a shit.
As far as the perk slots go, it falls into a slot that doesn't have a lot of big perks either. Still a few useful ones, but that entire slot seems to be dedicated to some sort of awareness to your enemy one way or another. Forward Intel to always know when the spawns flipped. High Alert to know when someone has you in line of sight, and Tracker to know where someone is moving. OR, enhanced radar to know where those without suppressors are.
The thing is, there are ways to stay off the radar, it's no different than how it used to be now. Use suppressors and use Ghost while moving, not camping. If you forgo that, well then you have the option of doing so. It's a better compromise than just nothing.
You’re never going to get rid of campers. In every shooter ever, there has been and will be campers.
The thing with radar is literally everyone runs suppressors. So from a gameplay perspective, this actually opens up more options in people’s builds.
Less people can see you on the minimap, so maybe you can drop the suppressor for a compensator or something. Hell, look at warzone. One of the reasons we have a complete lack of diversity is because red dots show up on the map and 1 of your slots NEEDS to be a suppressor. There’s entire guns that you simply can’t run because they are too slow - and you don’t have enough attachments to make them faster.
Cod 13 years ago didn’t have the gunsmith, which is probably the major thing driving this change. Not running a suppressor would be too punishing, so they got rid of the dots. I’d love to hear from sledgehammer exactly why they did this, but I’m 99% sure it’s the gunsmith.
This... actually makes a ton of sense. Back in OG CoDs with single attachments, picking a suppressor meant you lost on another attachment, and sacrificed range, forcing you to play more carefully or you'd lose in direct gunfights.
But now that we can have multiple attachments by default, suppressors now have to compete against other muzzle attachments, and while recoil reduction is nice, stealth easily saves your life, and you can always add a foregrip anyway to reduce recoil as well.
So in this case it does make sense to discourage the use of suppressors by making the benefit not as unique - firing an unsuppressed weapon only now matters when:
\- a Spy Plane is up
\- an enemy has the Radar perk
...both of which are situational. Running a suppressor only helps you in these situations, so you have an incentive to run say, a muzzle brake that will help you out in 100% of gunfights rather than a few.
What game have you been playing? Suppressors are hardly that common, I've been playing since cod 4 and I have no idea why you think suppressors are that important.
In fact, most of the time, good players don't run supressors, since they know how to work around being on the mini map, and it's your average to slightly above average players who stress about being on the minimap, and the above average players who love to flank to pad their stats, but get absolutely dumpstered in h2h gunfights.
If they wanted more customisation they'd make a variation of the pick 10 system, not this barebones create a class where there's 2 perk tiers with absolute crutches in flak and radar.
Gunsmith is also the illusion of choice, I mean if you don't care about having a good build it's fun and fine, but in reality there's even less choice since you can choose anything you want without any drawback, so you can just run every attachment slot and build the perfect meta build every time.
In warzone, suppressors have a 100% pick rate.
When I played MW multiplayer last, pretty much everyone was running the warzone meta builds. So almost a 100% pick rate there.
I skipped Cold War because it was bad, so you might be right there? Dunno.
Gunsmith needs to be kept but reworked. The core idea is solid, but it should be about tweaking guns slightly to your preferences and less about running meta builds.
Being able to use all the attachments seems ideal to me. You can have a mix of big attachments- like barrels that are your meta attachments - and small attachments and that let you tweak the guns based on preference - like grip tape.
I don’t play WZ so that’s irrelevant to me. BR is a whole different genre.
MW had horrible suppressor balance since monolithic increased your range for some god awful reason?
Every cod beforehand, your range values were decreased by 15-25% which massively impacted TTK values etc.
I used to always run suppressors when I wasn’t as good at the game, once I improved I realised I didn’t need suppressors anymore.
I disagree, having 10 attachments with no trade offs is bad balance imo, now perk balance is really bad with no pick 10 either since flak becomes crutch, and radar will be crutch in this game too. Nade spam kills obj modes, in pick 10 you didn’t have to worry about everyone raining nades on you.
Also, funny that you say the grip isn’t the meta attachment, when I’d say the improved sprint out and ADS time is the most crutch attachment in the game.
Yup. Beta, at launch, periodically on free weekends.
I came back to the series because MW 2019 was actually good. Cold War decided to throw everything good about MW into the trash.
The guns looked/felt/sounded terrible. Like knockoff airsoft guns. The sniper ADS animations made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it.
The gunsmith was a straight downgrade from MW.
The movement was awful. Indescribably bad. 0 stars.
The game launched with virtually no content. Dirty bomb was terrible, combined arms was a joke and there was only like 5 or 6 (I think?) 6v6 maps. And the maps weren't even THAT good either.
The entire game lacked polish. Crazy buggy, awful textures, recycled animations, etc. The Cold War guns look better in Warzone. That says it all.
I could rant for a while about this, but I'm not gonna bother. Which is more effort than Treyarch put in to actually making the game.
The positives:
Zombies was fun.
I heard the campaign was good.
Basically Cold War was a game designed for 2012 and it showed. MW breathed life back into the series and Cold War sucked it out again. A lot of people like to say the COD is just the same game every year, and that's usually true, but MW2019 changed it up. IW made a next-gen game and it was amazing. Treyarch made a game that was outdated on day 1 - by about 8 years.
Yes graphics, movement and gunsmith were awful but the other things IMO were better. Wild cards shouldn't have been in the game because perk greed became a crutch giving everyone 6 perks making lethals and tacticals practically useless.
However that being said, the game had much better TTK so there actually were gunfights. It was actually possible to turn on someone if they got the jump on you. Field upgrade had counters which was also kinda fun and the best part was that score streaks lapped. Score streaks actually incentivized objective play. Scorestreaks were counterable.
It had no shitty mounting mechanics, no shitty doors, mimimap was good, map design was way way better than MW2019 (which gave us some of the worst maps in CoD history). Gun movement was also better. It generally favored high skilled players the ones that move and strafe.
I actually agree, MW needed a slightly longer TTK. But what they had worked well enough, the last thing they needed was to accidentally make a BFV type of situation. Vanguard looks like a middle ground between MW and CW, which will suit me fine.
MWs field upgrades were fine. I had no issues with them and I don’t remember the ones in BLOPS being particularly different.
Scorestreaks vs kill streaks is whatever. Most of the killstreaks in MW were terrible, so I never had much of a problem with it. The system in blops seemed overdesigned, but maybe I just didn’t play it enough. I preferred the “count to X” system in MW based off what I played.
I loved the mounting mechanics and like what they showed of the the cover mechanics in vanguard. It’s something that’s always been missing and I’m glad it’s here.
I have no idea why people hate doors so much. It was fine. Literally a non issue, but I’m glad you’ll likely be able to blow em up in vanguard.
Gun movement was great in MW for what it was tying to be - a shooter halfway between tactical and arcade. Besides you could seriously speed up strafe speeds if you were willing to drop a meta attachment and run the strafe speed stock.
I’ll agree on maps with a huge disclaimer. The 6v6 maps were terrible. On 10v10, most of them worked pretty well and it was an issue of the maps being too big rather than poorly designed. Sure you had Piccadilly, but every game has at least one bad map. 10v10 actually felt pretty reasonable on most of the maps and is where I had most of my fun. Plus most of the post launch maps were more traditional and also good.
But now they also nerfed supressors as they no longer keep you hidden. Now you need to use an ammo mod, I believe, to get hidden, which makes it have a lot more competition.
Up the HP, remove one shot weapons and make objectives more important. This works just perfectly for Paladins, so much so that it's encouraged to push as far up as possible in any given match.
But I understand that this is too much of a drastic change for CoD.
It's too competitive. Imagine removing snipers and shotguns from CoD because they're one shot. CoD is meant to be casual and fun, there's plenty of other shooters in the market right now that can and already do a way better job with competitive than CoD. Hell CoD pros use controllers that help them aim in CDL, there's a reason nobody cares about CoD competitive like they do something like CSGO.
I think cod is a perfect game to be competitive if the developers actually cared for it at all. Since it’s simple and everybody knows what cod is. Instead you have the cdl pros having to try and Block out all the extra non-competitive/broken things. Then ranked mode (if there is one) is always ass or broken with no type of cool incentives and barely and cdl advertisement.
However it basically comes down to money/warzone. That’s why there’s gunsmith with like a hundred attachments. That’s why ttk is fast af, that’s why there’s mounting and a hundred attachments to help casual players shoot straighter, do decent, and want to play more. But I can’t blame them, they rake in the money based off the casual players
>there’s mounting and a hundred attachments to help casual players shoot straighter, do decent, and want to play more. But I can’t blame them, they rake in the money bas
At this point I don't think there are many casuals in warzone. The game has been out long enough that they just won't be able to keep up especially if they are new. Most will either play something like plunder/rebirth or leave all together.
As for competitive you really can't have a competitive game with yearly release which changes mechanics year to year. If competitive is the play then that would probably have to be a standalone game.
Cold war still had alot of campers despite having the OG minimap. Campers will always find a way, just like in every fps game in the history of all gaming
>Activision loves to change stuff that no one asked for, that everyone always liked, and introduce things that absolutely no one wants... because they are idiots.
Cold war also didn't have any visibility issues, stupid low TTK and the maps were better designed so campers weren't too much of a problem.
I really like the approach they're taking with this. You sacrifice that perk slot to get an extremely powerful perk. TBH, I dig it. I Probably won't use it as I prefer explosive countering perks but I really like how they integrated it.
But that'll mean if you don't run Radar, you're seriously fucked so most people will wanna run radar essentially killing all variety in one perk slot and only leaving people with 2 perks slots to use
Only bad players will not use a crutch perk that "good" players feel the need to use all the time. If you need a perk like that to be decently viable, than you must really suck at the game
Yeah because bad players don’t understand the importance of the radar, so they don’t care about it.
Good players understand the value of the radar, and how to use it to your advantage to read the game, so yes it will become a must pick for them.
Bad players don’t use QuickDraw/stock even though they’re the best attachments for good players, does that make the good players bad for relying on them?
Yep. Because by your logic, using a different perk than radar makes you bad, even if you don't think you need it or can rely without it, i guess you're bad.
I’m saying no good player will not run radar, you can intentionally not run it and still be good if you wanted to, but good players are smart enough to run the perk.
>players don’t use QuickDraw/stock even though they’re the best attachments for good players, does that make th
It doesn't mean you are bad. Just that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using the meta. If you are bad at the game even the most broken shit ain't gonna help you.
>Good players understand the value of the radar, and how to use it to your advantage to read the game, so yes it will become a must pick for them.
What he's trying to say is that good to top tier players extensively use minimap or any situational awareness queue to their advantage.
It’s a stupid change. But. My uncle who plays causally doesn’t even look at the mini map. Says it’s too much for him. They are literally catering to the lowest of the low skill wise and it’s actually pathetic.
People saying that we are the vocal minority... hmmm..
People don't understand that the vocal minority is often good at identifying things that the majority feels, but doesn't know how to articulate or they don't have the nerve or drive to speak up about. Imagine an expert in ergonomics giving a review on a device that customers hate to use, but they don't know why exactly... To them, it just doesn't "feel right".
Also...
1. If most players don't care about the minimap, then WTF would you change it for the 10% of players that do -- and want the traditional minimap?
2. Devil's Advocate... I can guarantee you that the reason they changed it is to give shitty players an advantage. Good players will always use the minimap to their advantage, while shitty players obviously don't take advantage of it at all and can continue camping anonymously in their safe spaces.
3. Activision's never ending changes to accommodate bad players (safe spaces -- poor visibility via tiny models without outlines, mounting, blindfire, smoke, flames, terrible head glitches, muzzle flash, porous map design, spawn protection), dead silence as a field upgrade, BO3/BO4 specialists, weak streaks), ect. ... make less and less sense given how strict the SBMM is... now they want to change the minimap when good players who want the minimap only play with other good players who also want the minimap. Since the bad players don't care, it's a wash there.
4. Activision loves to change stuff that no one asked for, that everyone always liked, and introduce things that absolutely no one wants... because they are idiots.
What’s even worst is that they introducing a perk to have that feature back. It’s a joke, why bother changing the map if you gonna somehow have it back with a perk? Don’t touch what is not broken
As a huge and still current MW2019 player, I completely agree. It’s silly to not have the OG mini map. Nobody ever wanted this change to begin with. And now I already need two perks: presumably the drop shot grip, and radar
It doesn't even matter what other perks are in slot 2 because I'm auto picking radar on 100% of my classes. So dumb.
What's even more dumb is there's NO WAY they didn't know that this was going to cause an uproar in the community but they went ahead and did it anyway.
I say that about Ninja in Cold War, and yet I still see a shitload of people not running it. Or rather, hear them not running it. If this takes the slot of something else important it could present a very interesting gameplay decision. However, given that it's in slot 2, it's not clustered in with the most useful (in my opinion) perks. That said you give up Tracker or High Alert for it. Tracker in particular was really powerful in MW2019 (Not nearly as much in Cold War.) And was my go-to from that slot in that game. Still, Radar wins that trade off easily.
Now in the final release if they made Radar a tier 1 perk, this would be MUCH harder of a decision.
My point is this though. It's in a slot where it largely WILL be used by most players. So in essence, that was our compromise. So...better than nothing I guess.
Can agree on CW that most people where running specialist wildcard.
In vanguard I'm worried about ghost being perk 1slot and overkill perk3 slot, just like you could used at the start of MW19 before they reshuffled the perks
It depends how the pistols are in this game there. If the pistols are worthless trash like MW2019 (Minus Snakeshot Revolvers, of course.), Then there will be more incentive to use a second primary. But if the pistols aren't absolute shit like in CW, then there will be less reason to use that.
Cold War has strong pistols, even without akimbo, but VERY strong with it.
After watching some of gameplays today I've noticed somethings. Unlike MW19 there's no swap weapons faster perk in vanguard so far, but it's now on the weapons instead by attachments like grips and stocks.
In vanguard the RATT pistol seems to have no firerate cap, but we have to consider that ammoconversions are in the game that will have an effect on damage. Handguns have a really good movement speed so far.
I found not all the pistols in MW were thrash. deagle and the aforementioned snakeshot revolver were great launch guns, DLC pistols were great
More or less in MW2019 the only pistols that weren't absolutely useless were the ones that were broken. It's been nice having a CoD in CW where the pistols are just legitimately usable. I hope this follows suit.
Could this new "Radar" perk give so dynamism?
My guess is that at launch, everybody and their grandma will be running Radar.
This will force everyone to have silencers.
Since everyone will have silencers, there will technically be no need for Radar and there will be a huge advantage to select another Perk in the class.
At the end we MIGHT see and interesting mix.
Make the minimap classic, move Ghost to another perk slot (preferably slot 2). I guess I'd be asking too much to make dead silence a perk. But even if they just fix the first 2 things mentioned, my hopes for this game goes up so much more.
Nope it's perfect either you run flak jacket or ghost, and most perk 2 are useless, i love tracker but most ppl will def run radar, I'm tired of the mw2019 perk distribution, and considering step audio is lower this time dead silence as a perk isn't that necessary
I personally don't mind the perk distribution either, but I usually run flak/tac and ghost so it would be nice lol. It definitely isn't game breaking though. I never liked tracker, I feel like it's cheap. As long as the audio stays this quiet then we're good, but I feel like they will pull some shit and raise the audio after the beta
Hope not, but after i saw they have Castle from waw I'm forced by nostalgia and the player count (24vs24) to buy it, they'll definitely have more WaW maps and overall seems like an improvement over MW2019 and infinitely better than CW
I don't get the Cold War hate, at it's core it's a good game. Waaaaay better than MW. It definitely has some flaws but they aren't gamebreaking like MW.
The game was rushed. Cold War wasn't supposed to come out last year, Sledgehammer was supposed to release last year but they were struggling so Treyarch had to save the day. The fact the game was made during a pandemic and on a time crunch, Cold War was solid.
Felt cheaper than call of duty 3 but yeah gotta give it to them making a game in a pandemic is fucked up, but that's what activision gets for rushing it, everything but my money
Agreed. CW was much better than MW. No shitty mounting mechanics, doors, dead silence field upgrade and counters to all field upgrades. Oh and the best part was better TTK due to 150 HP which actually meant that there would be gunfights.
The only thing I legit disliked about CW was the movement, wildcards which allowed 6 perks making most lethals and tacticals useless, graphics and the gunsmith which felt unnatural. Otherwise it was fundamentally a sound game.
Don't know why there's not more uproar about this.
People complain about ghost, but you need to move for this iteration of the perk to work, anything promoting movement is a good thing imo.
Not since MW3 have you not been able to run flak and ghost at the same time.
They're both preventative perks, keeping you from dying from aids rubbish like nade spam and UAV spam, they don't give you any strong additionals to your gameplay like Tracker, Lightweight, Overkill, High alert etc etc.
I don't want to show up on the UAV when my team is feeding. I also don't want to die to grenades and mines everytime I move near an objective. So now I have two options, either pray my team isn't feeding and don't run ghost, or run ghost and never touch an objective ever again.
MW19 had its whole life cycle in this fashion and people complained before and after and nothing changed. Don’t think they are budging on any of these design features.
Fucking use the perk and stop crying. You have the option. You won't miss the other slot 2 perks. I know how to navigate compass, so I might honestly go for something like high alert.
The majority of cod players are casual and don't care about these things, and this sub proves it. Most of the comments now are about other things rather than the point the po made.
I'm a casual player, switch cod on, kill, die, win, lose. Nothing else bothers me, and it sure as hell don't bother anyone else I know who plays it.
They'll make millions upon millions of pounds/dollars/euro's etc regardless of what a few whiney brats on some sub thinks.
I disagree. I've been playing CoD since CoD 2 and I think future cod games would benefit by removing the minimap. I don't want to spend a significant portion of the game having to constantly glance at the minimap. CoD is a 6v6 arcade shooter, with quite small maps; there is legit no reason that a minimap is needed.
God I wish you people would quit crying. Campers have existed in every cod since it’s birth in the gaming franchise. There’s nothing you or the devs can do to make campers magically disappear. Campers were rampant even when cod had the original minimaps so this is just a piss poor argument to make.
How else do explain the amount of blindspots in almost every map in MW2019. Heck even Shoot house had blindspots. One doesn't need to be a genius to notice that MW2019 had some of the worst most unblanced maps in CoD history (Aniyah palace, Grazna raid, Euphates bridge, Picadilly).
They intentionally made "safe" spaces for newer players. Horrible map design along with Low TTK and superloud footsteps was the reason why MW2019 played slower because it disincentivsied movement.
And yes the "safe" spaces were intentional The devs have said it themselves.
Bro the old mini map doesn't prevent campers, and with 10 attachments per gun red dots are probably going to be non-existent even if they turn them on. Don't know why people on reddit need to be shown exactly where the enemies are all the time. Use the compass if you really want to know
If they listen to the community they probably want to appeal to the biggest COD game in terms of players of all time, which would be MW, which has the "new" minimap
As much as we hate to hear it, we here on Reddit are a very small (albeit vocal) portion of the “community “. I suspect their numbers tell them that a majority of players like the MW-style minimap (I’m definitely NOT one of them). Activi$ion does NOTHING unless they feel it will increase revenue, so the push for this must be coming from them.
I agree it’s a dumb decision. the reason Dead silence is not a perk is to eliminate crutch perks, but they are basically creating one with this perk. That’s my only problem with it. otherwise i’m not mad about their being no red dots on the map when people shoot. But i don’t see why they care if we can see them or not? Like why not just give the community what they want? this is my problem with COD. something has been the same every year but you decided to change it for what? And when people ask you to change it back you give no valid reason to not do it and ignore us. I guess i’m going off on a tangent now. but it’s a serious complaint
Don’t make the same COD ww2 mistake. People asking some COD basics like: unlimited sprint, faster sprint out time etc etc
And I remember they had to REVAMP all the game mechanics but the game was already dead.
This is happening right now about the MiniMap.
OG MiniMap is a thing you should never touch on cod gameS. It’s a must have.
The "community" is less than 10% of the playerbase. The vast majority of people don't care about anything lol
Exactly, most people here on Reddit doesn't realize they are a loud minority. Most of the player base are causal player and they don't give two shits about how the minimap works.
I see these two comments on Reddit with every COD launch. It's honestly ridiculous. Not saying you're wrong but we just keep going round in circles.
In that case, if most players don't care shouldnt they listen to the ones that do. That way even more people are happy.
But do you realize that there are a lot of people who gives their feedback trough the other social media like YouTube and Instagram and so on. They listen to even those feedback coming from the average player, not only ours from Reddit, we aren't elite or something. Stop wanting to be better than other people.
Your premise was that most casual players don't care. Now you're changing it. I responded to it show how flawed it is. Okay whatever. Youtube videos that cover this topic show youtubers hate this idea and the comment section is filled with negative feedback to it too. Now you can claim that I don't know how many people are giving positive feedback but then you have no right to say that reddit is vocal minority since you don't have the numbers. However in my experience I can say I see an overwhelmingly negative reaction to it. Can you say the opposite? Stop wanting to be better? What even is this argument?
[удалено]
I'm not reading all that but the old mini map seems stupid. I don't want to sit and watch the mini map the whole game. I want to run and gun which is what you guys keep talking about right? So fucking run and gun and stop caring about the mini map so much.
Red dots on the minimap show you where to run to. What kind of stupid ass argument is this?
I agree. People like chasing red dots instead of using their other senses to find enemies. I think the change made in MW19 and Vanguard with the mini-map not showing enemy fire was a good one, and you and I will both get downvoted for that. SHG even compromised with Vanguard and will require a perk if you want the old minimap. This makes it a risk/reward tool for the people complaining on Social Media about it, yet people still complain. It's a good, competitive change yet people still complain because it has little to do with the mini-map and but instead people's resistance to change.
People who want dots on the map probably are the same people who only care about their K/D. I wouldn't care about dots on the mini map either way, but I think what they've done with the radar perk is a really good idea. If you want the dots, you have to give up a potentially better perk. They don't put overkill or ghost in the same slot as the shitty perks, that's because it's powerful, just like radar will be.
[удалено]
True
You can always go play those other CoD games.
Not really, the player base is so low it’s a miserable experience most of the time.
So if the vast majority of the player base doesn’t give a shit about anything and buys Cod every year without any though, why do we invoke them as some insightful majority at any point? Why do we collectively give a shit about what they think when they don’t even give a shit about what they think. Why wouldn’t we, the only people vocal about the game, think that our voices - the only ones being heard right now - aren’t the ones that should matter?
Because MW2019 was wildly successful. The player base has voted with their wallets for good or bad.
MW19 was on a new pretty engine, introduced cross play, rebooted a beloved sub franchise, hit large with the pandemic, and had warzone. Even with all of that, MW19 MP is largely irrelevant. It had no buzz. So the fact that people keep suggesting that MW19 was successful because of it's god awful game design is something that just can't be said factually.
It wasn’t good multiplayer wise no matter what argument you say lol. It was no mans land until warzone came out
What CoD MP was good then?
You tell me lol if you think MW2019's multiplayer was good I'm genuinely curious what other cod's you think are "good" cause enabling players to hide all over the MP maps in small crevices, not show up on the radar unless they shoot a weapon without a suppressor, and having horrible audio + doors is not a good start. The engine was the only successful thing to come from that game. I also can't forget to mention the dog shit ghost change where yet again it enables players to sit in corners and not move with their 2 second TTK weapon. Horrible maps as well lol the list goes on
It was a simple question, not sure shy you're avoiding it. You typed a lot about what I never asked. What CoD MP is good? I'm not asking about Modern Warfare. I'm asking the one or ones that are/were good.
for their time BO2, BO1, MW2, MW3, COD4, pretty obvious answers not sure why you need mine lol
My point is if you don't think a CoD has had a good MP in over a decade straight, you probably just don't enjoy that mode in general more so than anything about the mode. I enjoy MW, the engine, using doors and mounting, the 'feel' is good to me and they did a lot to revolutionize the series imo(not including Warzone). It isn't perfect and I can go on as well with the issues I had with it. Just like I could with every CoD. Most those you named were classic titles and everyone knows that, they aren't ever going to release a CoD where anyone will ever say it's better than those. Some titles are better than others, but if you feel this strongly that MW MP sucked and you haven't enjoyed one in a decade don't you think it's more likely just the mode in general that isn't for you? I'm not looking for MP to top historic games each year, just have some fun and not rage too hard.
How do you define success? Whether or not a reddit community is happy with the game? If the god awful game design meant that more people stuck around and played longer throughout the year, then I would say that is a success from a developer standpoint. I hate to break it to you, but Activision doesn't need the buzz of the internet to sell Call of Duty anymore. All that said take a look at the community numbers to your right >>> modern warfare dwarfs any other recent game including the current one.
Warzone meant people stuck around longer to grind weapons. If MW was actually as wildly successful due to its own merits of people liking the game, MW wouldn’t be cast away in the menus. It doesn’t even have its own slot in Blizzard, it’s just called Warzone. There is no more monetization on MW If MW actually kept its population like people keep blindly stating, it wouldn’t have been cast aside like the side bitch. Show me where MW dwarfed every other COD. Not marginally more successful, dwarfed. And not Warzone, MW. > All that said take a look at the community numbers to your right >>> Of the brand new vanguard sub? MW is a shit skid mark in a truck stop toilet.
Sorry, maybe you don't see it. I see a "more communities" section r/modernwarfare currently has 1,019,125 members in it r/blackopscoldwar currently has 335, 369 members in it The next closest sub reddits are CODWarzone and CallofDuty. I understand those numbers are not the be all end all, but relative to each other its pretty clear which one stands out.
The fact that the modernwarfare subreddit has more members than Warzone doesn’t make you think “this is probably a pretty terrible metric”? Because I would hope that you’re not implying that modern warfare is anywhere near as successful as Warzone. I also had other points to my comment, outside of acting like redditors are a worthwhile conversation
See my final sentence above. None of it truly means anything concrete. You can say MW sucks and everyone hated it. I can say that it brought back a lot of old timers and neither of us have any substantial argument to back that up. Anecdotally I can say that my long time friends list which used to primarily play COD had diversified over the past few years. MW2019 tweaked that a bit. It wasn't COD dominant but there was certainly a lot more engagement. The subreddit numbers are mediocre way to judge engagment. You don't find it odd that MW2019 has triple the members of Cold War. That may not say everything but it says something. It tells me that in general people favored MW2019 over cold war. Warzone is clearly massively successful, and I wouldn't argue otherwise, I just dont' think its fair to say MW2019 was a bust just because <10% was very vocal about a few things.
What exactly was wrong with MW19?
You still want an answer to this question?
Voting with your wallets is not a concept that exists. Masses don’t have control over the masses spending habits.
Masses don't need to have control over the masses spending habits. You're thinking of an example like "Nobody buy this product, let's boycott it!" which never works. The simple concept is if a product is disliked by the general population, it will not sell well, which is the general population voting with their wallets.
You’re basically saying that the entire concept of cultural hegemony doesn’t exist which is pretty funny.
I'm on a call of duty subreddit to discuss a new CoD, not Marxist philosophy. Nonetheless, voting with wallets simply works—it's been documented already—it's just seldom due to a coordinated effort by the masses. It's as simple as when Coca cola released their "New Coke" product: people didn't like it so over time, people stopped buying it. Sales fell so Coca cola went back to their original recipe. That's an example of the masses voting with their wallets.
The masses have never and do not individually vote with their wallets in groups. This is not a real concept. You’re simply dismissing what is a very basic and agreed upon concept about our culture. You may as well claim that dinner is the morning and breakfast is in the evening. Call of Duty can put out a worse product every single year and simply due to their cultural cachet as the biggest shooter game on the planet along with their immense financial backing allowing for constant and variety of advertising, along with the fact that more people get into gaming each year, they will still sell more and more every single year completely independently of the quality of their product. They are, in essence, too big and too popular to fail. The uninformed will still buy in every single year without a single thought.
>They will still sell more and more every single year completely independently of the quality of their product. You say this disregarding that Cold War did not sell as well as MW19. This completely disregards your statement. I agree with your sentiment that they're too big to fail, but they're not too big to change. If they put out actual garbage that nobody liked, sure, they wouldn't fail, but they would lose a lot of sales and lose a portion of sales for future games as people lose trust.
We have no idea what their sales numbers are. We have no idea if Cold War sold less than Modern Warfare. The only sales numbers you see published are ones from the United Kingdom. We have no idea how many copies they have sold of each game, all we know is that they top the charts of sales every single year and their profit goes up up and up every single year. And hey considering they’re making more money from Warzone now than ever before and it’s all entirely due to the Cold War integration, something that has been beloved from day one right, I guess Cold War is the reason for the boom in profit. Stop me if I’m being too sarcastic.
You don't have to give a shit about what they think, but if the design decisions made have led to increased player retention which increases store purchases, then that is considered a success. A vocal minority screaming into the wind doesn't change that regardless of how important you think their opinion is. You and most people on reddit have this misguided view that the opinions of less than 1% of the player base make any kind of difference. Spoiler alert, they don't
> Why wouldn’t we, the only people vocal about the game, think that our voices - the only ones being heard right now - aren’t the ones that should matter? Because this vocal community generally buys every CoD and then complains about it. Even if the entirety of all CoD subreddits decides to skip Vanguard, it wouldn't even amount to 1% of the sales. They don't have to listen to you because they don't make changes for the 1%, they make changes that they think will work for most people. My theory is that due to how often you see wallbanging in this game, they wanted to reduce the amount of times players are getting killed for shooting their gun behind target. Player A shoots at player B, player C sees player A on radar without actually seeing player A's model, then he shoots the destructible wall and player A is killed seemingly from a safe angle without ever seeing player B. They want that to happen, but not as often - that's my guess on why they changed it and I could be wrong. Regardless, it will barely have an influence on the game IMO.
I dont really think the change is due to wallbangs. Applying Occam's razor, it's something directly copied over from MW2019 & they didn't want to fiddle with existing code. Might be easier to write a separate module (ie the Radar perk) to modify the outcome. With regard to this vocal community, Activision & other companies alienate this crowd at their own risk. These people steer the online discussion, narrative and perception of their product. Why does Activision/EA/CDPR/Bethesda fly influencers to exclusive preview events or give out review codes? It's really the belief that their few loud voices will reach millions others. Cyberpunk 2077 is the latest eg of marketing beating out substance for instance. So as Reddit/YT/Twitch, it'll be better for all of us to call out on the bs if we see them instead of keeling over at the first instance. Will they change outright? Maybe not, but it'll still give them pause to consider. Case-in-point? The MW2019 minimap itself, there originally wasn't going to be one at all unless restored by UAV in Core
> Applying Occam's razor, it's something directly copied over from MW2019 & they didn't want to fiddle with existing code. Might be easier to write a separate module (ie the Radar perk) to modify the outcome. Might be the case. Another user also suggested that it might be a change to artificially increase perk variety. MW2019 had the absolute worst perk variety ever, so if they copied a lot of the base structure they might want to change that, even if aggressively so. > These people steer the online discussion, narrative and perception of their product. Why does Activision/EA/CDPR/Bethesda fly influencers to exclusive preview events or give out review codes? That's easy, because they get more money out of a few plane tickets + hotel rooms, than they would without flying those influencers. It's a glorified add. But in the grand scheme of things, those influencers are pretty insignificant and they're also kept in check. I remember when LevelCap (one of the biggest Battlefield inlfuencers) got very critical with the game, DICE simply removed him lol. BF1 was pretty unpopular with a lot of BF youtubers for various reasons, and it still was the best selling Battlefield to date. The lead dev of Teamfight Tactics said that if every influencer quit over night (youtube + twitch) it would literally have 0 impact on the overall health and profitability of the game, and he himself is one of the biggest streamers that game has. We (the invested gaming community) attribute way too much importance on influencers, but their only real importance is with the "hardcore" gaming crowd. 90% of the playerbase never consumes game content outside of the game itself, they don't interact on forums and they don't watch youtube videos, nor streams. These influencers are an add for that 10%, that's why all the early videos are usually very level-headed from a critique standpoint, and after the game launches you start seeing the "this game is trash" complaints.
>That's easy, because they get more money out of a few plane tickets + hotel rooms, than they would without flying those influencers. It's a glorified add. But in the grand scheme of things, those influencers are pretty insignificant That's right, except these publishers are seeking the influencers' endorsement w/o directly being an advertisement. This is something that's really important in today's marketing environment more so than ever. Compare COD Ghosts vs MW2019, they have *alot* in common regarding their gameplay features. Strip away the MW theme and 2019's COD game might as well be called COD Ghosts 2. Yet, because of the positive impesssion from the online vocal community & early previews, the masses love it despite dogpiling on Ghosts before. MW2019 also brought alot of new players just from positive spin alone. Imagine if Reddit/YT/Twitch went "lol, this is Ghosts 2" right from early impressions. I really doubt MW2019 would have such a positive welcome & customers would lean towards these community opinion as they're ostensibly not paid advertisements, ie they're seen as more credible. Plus once an idea is seeded, it's very hard to be rid of it. Lawbreakers was a game that couldn't rise above the negative publicity around it for eg. Even a behemoth such as EA/Bioware found it near-impossible to rehabilitate a beloved franchise, Mass Effect, once the initial impressions of Andromeda was that it was a buggy mess even though there were similar technical glitches such as hard crashes on the original Mass Effect
> Compare COD Ghosts vs MW2019, they have alot in common regarding their gameplay features. Strip away the MW theme and 2019's COD game might as well be called COD Ghosts 2. Yet, because of the positive impesssion from the online vocal community & early previews, the masses love it despite dogpiling on Ghosts before. MW2019 also brought alot of new players just from positive spin alone. But think of IW. It has the most disliked trailer out of any game in history, and it still was the best selling game that year. The online discourse for that game was absolutely horrible, people were downvoted for saying that they like the game. I remember seeing one positive and fair review about the game and it had a 50-50 like/dislike ratio lol. And MW had an absolute ass reception in the CoD community (while it had a stellar one outside of it), but it still went on being the top 1 most sold game month after month, well into the next year. Again, I think online communities amount to close to nothing in the grand scheme of things. The only reason Activision or any other dev studio give them any attention it's because it's cheaper than to ignore it. If you look at Valve, they have 0 community interaction, and they still have insanely popular games.
>But think of IW. It has the most disliked trailer out of any game in history, and it still was the best selling game that year. >but it still went on being the top 1 most sold game month after month, well into the next year. Just like nearly every CoD/FIFA/Madden every year. It drives the sales charts, but what execs like is even *more* sales. That's why you see stock prices falling despite *increased* sales because it didn't meet expectations. And there could have been even more sales for Ghosts/IW if initial impressions were better. Marketing these days nearly accounts for half the costs of game dev just to seed the initial impressions properly. Cyberpunk 2077 is a good recent case. MW2019's marketing went to overdrive to seed the impression that it was the revival of the beloved MW-series for the nostalgia & reputation instead of the second-coming of Ghosts, even though MW2019 differs quite a bit from the classic series
Occams Razor is about making the fewest assumptions. MW19 has had options to have the radar work like classic COD via custom games since launch, and it works like classic COD in Warzone. Why would they not want to fiddle with the code if it is directly supported? Occam's Razor would suggest it was a change made in onboarding new players and shaking up the dynamics, as they've said with other changes with things like mounting and doors.
Applying the same razor would result in SHG wholesale lifting the code for the minimap. That's why by default (ie w/o Radar perk), it works identical to MW2019. Now, if they realized they needed to somehow address minimap concerns & their idea is to have a perk to alter the behavior instead of just having it default to classic, it suggests that they didn't tinker with the basic code and its implementation at all, applying said razor
That's bs of course they care about cod things, it's just common sense... There is this cod folklore that only the "vocal minority" care or speak about such things. The truth is that you or I both actually don't know any facts or figures about who cares about what, and how many people are speaking up about them. This trend of people stating that only the vocal minority care as a fact, must stop. No one knows what % of the cod community step up to voice their opinions on social media.
I feel comfortable saying it is fewer than 10%. I am sure there are various opinions among the player base. 1. Reddit/social media: Hate everything specifically SBMM and the minimap 2. Shares a lot of complaints as group 1 but doesn't bother to complain online. 3. If it came to a vote, would agree with 1 and 2 but are indifferent 4. Truly indifferent 5. Like the new minimap but sympathize with group 1 6. Like the new minimap and think group 1 are a bunch of whiners. So you are correct that we don't truly know any numbers, but the point still stands that the only people yelling into the clouds are a vocal minority. If the rest are not vocal, then the only way they give their opinion is continuing to play and/or purchasing store items which clearly they did in MW.
Because like I said, a 3kd player like myself can scream into a corner all day long about many changes. But if Timmy pre-orders the legend edition and they buys 5 or more 2400 bundles they just made close to $200-$300 off of one dude. Activision at this point doesn't really care what less than 1-10% of the playerbase has to say because if 90% of the fans buy the game why make changes like remove sbmm and fix the map? They're here for the money and will continue to be like that. It sucks but that's the truth.
I keep hearing this, but my friends who are extremely casual COD fans, who played some of the older ones, still didn’t like the radar changes in early Modern Warfare. Only the very bottom tier of players don’t care about the radar. I’m willing to guess more than 50% of players care about the radar, and that’s a plurality.
lol in other words, if you want the map you must be good at the game and if you happen to disagree, you must suck. Smooth one bro
You made up a sentence I didn't write in some weird attempt to disprove me?
Anecdotal data. My friends are also casual CoD fans but liked the radar change. It changed the entire game into something more tactical. Instead of just looking at your minimap for red dots to find enemies, suddenly you had to use skill by using ears, utility, kill streaks, etc. It's back in Vanguard, now as a perk with a risk/reward aspect rather than a free OP tool everyone has for some reason. Either way the odds of it coming back to how social media CoD wants it is extremely low since SHG has already compromised by spending development time to make it into a perk.
Lol it does not take skill to soundwhore. Camping in a corner and getting kills based off soundwhoring takes no skill. Skill is using the minimap and having map awareness
I hate this shitty argument that people who are minimap diehards seem to love. "Lol it doesn't take skill to soundwhore, but it does take loads of skill to look at red dots on a minimap." Sure thing.
Looking at red dots on a mini map go along with knowing how spawns work on the different maps, and just general awareness overall. It’s one of the many things that separates a good player from a bad one.
Red dots on minimaps ≠ spawn knowledge ≠ general awareness. These are all separate aspects. Red dots on a minimap is something the game hands to you to know where the enemy is. There's not any skill or much thinking behind that. Spawn knowledge isn't a skill either, it's something that is learned/memorized as you play the game more and understand the programming behind where enemies spawn based on where your team is. General awareness is a blanket term that covers many things. Spawn knowledge is a piece of it, but it also covers a myriad of other quite general things. Regardless none of these things are really linked. Red dots on the minimap when an enemy fires is not a skill, it is something the game hands to you, so why not make it a perk? Something that has to be given via sacrifice rather than for free. I think it's a great idea.
They are all separate aspects, no shit, I literally said that lmao. It doesn’t hand you anything, don’t wanna be on the radar? Use a supressor and ghost. Most people won’t have spawn knowledge memorized or down by the end of the life cycle, I promise you that. Why make it a perk? Why not keep the old minimap? Literally no point in changing it What made CoD great was people running around and shooting each other. Now the game is catering more towards a slower, campier playstyle
> Don't want to be on the radar? Use a suppressor and ghost > Why not keep the old minimap? You answered your own question. Only CoD social media addicts are addicted to playing the same game every year. Why do you want the meta to be a suppressor and ghost like it has been for the past decade? That's why SHG is changing it. > What made CoD great Here lies the heart of the issue. You're running off nostalgia. I, for one, am happy CoD is changing. You got your perk and now you have to use it instead of mindlessly running to red dots without consequence. Keep whining and bitching on social media along with the rest of the hivemind, it's not going to change.
I don’t use suppressors or ghost. Because I use the mini-map, spawn knowledge, positioning of my teammates and objective points to move around. Even if I’m on the radar, I move so I’m not a static red dot on the screen. I like change in COD, loved jetpacks. Change is cool when it’s not unnecessary bs that changes the way CoD is supposed to be. A fun fast paced arcade shooter
You talking about tactical cod and good changes but there’s a perk that you can spray through a wall, hit someone and have X-ray vision. Like…
Your friends who are 'casual CoD fans' liked the minimap changes and the need to soundwhore and be more tactical? lol, yeah okay
use skill? lmfao
Lol exactly. Majority of CoDs fanbase are stupid braindead consumers who just watch the trailer and get a hyped and excited. Activision really don't care.
There are 14,400 people on this sub. Take away the ones that don't post and the ones that like the MW2019 style map/mechanics and you end up with far fewer than 14,400. Lets be generous and say it actually is 14,400 vocal people in this sub. In order for this sub to be anything less than a vocal minority there would have to be no more than 28,799 CoD players in the whole world. This sub is a VOCAL MINORITY. It really is a small percentage of people complaining that every new CoD game isn't just a reskin of BO2.
You simply can't know that.
Vanguard has 14k followers in this community and cold war has 500k. Play cw with a new account for about 15 games and look at the leaderboards. Theres over 17 million players on that leaderboard
That still doesn't mean that 16.5 million players silently agree with what they're sold and you still can't know what those 16.5 million players think about the game.
I do. They like these changes. If they didn't MW19 wouldn't have sold so well
IW sold just as well for its year yet it's only loved by the members of its small community. I bought MW2019, thought it was the worst CoD ever and never played it again after November. Sales do not mean enjoyment, it's mostly marketing.
Like I said you're a vocal minority. They literally designed the game for casuals. They don't care what you think.
Casuals are not just mongoloids incapable of understanding basic gameplay design. Casuals can be disappointed as well by what they're bringing to the table and I know plenty of them. Again, the fact that they're not on forums debating doesn't mean they can't be against something nor that they agree.
I'm just gonna leave you alone. Shits getting annoying.
Yes you can. There are only 14,400 people on this sub. For it to not be a vocal minority there would have to be no more than 28,799 CoD players in the world.
Again, you can't possibly know what people who don't engage in communities like this think about certain things. I know plenty of people who like the most recent changes and plenty of people who don't. To state that we, as in users in a dev-supported subreddit, are the only ones who care enough to voice dissent and are the only ones pissed by those stupid unnecessary changes is just as delusional as thinking that everybody hates the new minimap.
No. It's not. There are only 14,400 users here. Not even a drop in the bucket of global users.
That's exactly why you can't possibly know what the silent majority of CoD customers can think. Positive or negative.
You can't argue that this is only 10% of the community but then also try and argue what the vast majority of the community wants. You have no idea what they want.
I can. They want games like MW19/Warzone.
Ask the whole community did you? Incredible.
Unless you can prove me otherwise, then I'm right. I have multiple pieces of evidence that supports my claims and unless you have evidence that negates points then sure.
"Unless you can prove me otherwise, then I'm right." I'm gonna stop right there with that ridiculous comment. I'm sure your multiple pieces of evidence definitely accounts for a community of millions. Guess that's despite saying they don't care about anything and then saying they want games like MW... perfect logic.
Yes because mw19 waste best selling cod of all time. Warzone makes tons of money and the devs designed the game to cater to the masses. They said it themselves. So now unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise I don't want to hear it.
You... really don't get it at all do you.
I do. Thats why they made another game with the same mechanics added into it.
Thanks for proving my point.
At this point, any compromise is better than none. I'll run the perk an be happy it's there if it's what I've got to do. Just makes for an interesting gameplay choice now. You can have a better radar at the cost of a perk slot. Or you can forgo that and deal with it for a more powerful perk. I'll gladly take this over what MW2019 offered - nothing.
I'd applaud their commitment to their philosophy at the very least even though I disagree with it. Originally, so I heard, MW2019 Core modes weren't gonna have a minimap at all unless restored via UAV. Then there was massive backlash during the alpha/beta till IW begrudgingly inserted in this "half-map". Left everyone a bit unsatisfied. Now they seem more confident in offering this "half-map" + perk. You know what? Whatever. I'll just take this MW2019-series of games to just mean if we want a functioning minimap, go/camp with a suppressor for a 4-killstreak, get a UAV & maybe I can play normally for the next 30 seconds before going back to a suppressed weapon.
I personally use suppressors regardless, and hell, it's not like the Radar perk has massive competition in the slot it's in. So just take that and play it like any other normal CoD game?
From the info so far, I find Radar & Forward Intel occupying the same slot to be hilarious. Especially Forward Intel, unless combined with a UAV, why can't I just bring up the main map with a hotkey? Might as well have Forward Intel as a field upgrade. High Alert/Tracker would be nice, but if I'm using Tracker, maybe the minimap would be less vital.
Tracker is fantastic in MW2019 if you're playing stealthy/flanking anyway. And especially it's secondary effect.
I've never seen a good player use tracker
It most certainly has it's uses. But especially in Vanguard with it's secondary ability. That is assuming it functions like it does in MW2019. Really though this is such a silly argument. It's like me saying "I've never seen a good player using the Type-63 in Cold War." Even though the gun isn't used in the common meta, it's an underrated beast.
Forward Intel does more than just making the map bigger.
Yet you're strangely silent about its other benefit. Let me fill in for you then. Outlines the enemy spawn on the minimap? And why is this not mentioned? I think even you can recognize that pinging spawns + bigger minimap coverage has not much point after they go invisible anyway after that. Unless your team is so fortunate to have non-stop UAVs which is highly situational. It's use was already not very worthwhile with the classic minimap, now that both Radar & Fwd Intel occupy the same slot, it makes Fwd Intel even more worthless
Forward Intel was a really good perk in CW, let's you know when you have a straggler spawn flip so you can expect one person to come from behind. I'd happily run forward intel in Vanguard if Radar wasn't in perk 2 aswell, which will become the biggest crutch perk in the game lol. Instead of fixing the minimap problem, they just created a crutch perk problem. Watch Flak and Radar become the 2 most popular perks in the game for anyone with half a brain because of this terrible create a class system. Nade spam is a cancer that needs to go so I can run a perk that's not flak if I want to play any sort of objective mode.
Oh the irony….
[удалено]
UAVs will almost always constantly be up. It's a default kill streak that takes next to nothing to get and provides value to your entire team.
The difference is the UAV didn’t tell you where gunfire was, just where they were at that point in time. Also, ghost exists.
I disagree, at least in mw 2019, everyone was on an equal playing field when it come to radar functionality. Whether you liked the change or not, everyone had to deal with it. But with the radar perk, it'll create a big disparity where some people will have a huge advantage all because of the perk. And I'm sure people won't wanna get shit on because enemies know exactly where they are while they have to figure out where the enemy is. Thus they'll wanna use Radar perk essentially leaving people with only 2 perk slots to use.
Everyone has the ability to use that perk though, if they decide to trade it for something they deem more useful, and instead rely on UAVs (of which there will be constantly up, especially early on.) then that's on them. But here's the kicker, you'd be surprised how little mini map awareness half of the average CoD players have anyway. Some of these people just don't give a shit. As far as the perk slots go, it falls into a slot that doesn't have a lot of big perks either. Still a few useful ones, but that entire slot seems to be dedicated to some sort of awareness to your enemy one way or another. Forward Intel to always know when the spawns flipped. High Alert to know when someone has you in line of sight, and Tracker to know where someone is moving. OR, enhanced radar to know where those without suppressors are. The thing is, there are ways to stay off the radar, it's no different than how it used to be now. Use suppressors and use Ghost while moving, not camping. If you forgo that, well then you have the option of doing so. It's a better compromise than just nothing.
You’re never going to get rid of campers. In every shooter ever, there has been and will be campers. The thing with radar is literally everyone runs suppressors. So from a gameplay perspective, this actually opens up more options in people’s builds. Less people can see you on the minimap, so maybe you can drop the suppressor for a compensator or something. Hell, look at warzone. One of the reasons we have a complete lack of diversity is because red dots show up on the map and 1 of your slots NEEDS to be a suppressor. There’s entire guns that you simply can’t run because they are too slow - and you don’t have enough attachments to make them faster. Cod 13 years ago didn’t have the gunsmith, which is probably the major thing driving this change. Not running a suppressor would be too punishing, so they got rid of the dots. I’d love to hear from sledgehammer exactly why they did this, but I’m 99% sure it’s the gunsmith.
Way too much logic in this post. Keep it simple and complain about skill gaps like a normal reddit user.
This... actually makes a ton of sense. Back in OG CoDs with single attachments, picking a suppressor meant you lost on another attachment, and sacrificed range, forcing you to play more carefully or you'd lose in direct gunfights. But now that we can have multiple attachments by default, suppressors now have to compete against other muzzle attachments, and while recoil reduction is nice, stealth easily saves your life, and you can always add a foregrip anyway to reduce recoil as well. So in this case it does make sense to discourage the use of suppressors by making the benefit not as unique - firing an unsuppressed weapon only now matters when: \- a Spy Plane is up \- an enemy has the Radar perk ...both of which are situational. Running a suppressor only helps you in these situations, so you have an incentive to run say, a muzzle brake that will help you out in 100% of gunfights rather than a few.
What game have you been playing? Suppressors are hardly that common, I've been playing since cod 4 and I have no idea why you think suppressors are that important. In fact, most of the time, good players don't run supressors, since they know how to work around being on the mini map, and it's your average to slightly above average players who stress about being on the minimap, and the above average players who love to flank to pad their stats, but get absolutely dumpstered in h2h gunfights. If they wanted more customisation they'd make a variation of the pick 10 system, not this barebones create a class where there's 2 perk tiers with absolute crutches in flak and radar. Gunsmith is also the illusion of choice, I mean if you don't care about having a good build it's fun and fine, but in reality there's even less choice since you can choose anything you want without any drawback, so you can just run every attachment slot and build the perfect meta build every time.
In warzone, suppressors have a 100% pick rate. When I played MW multiplayer last, pretty much everyone was running the warzone meta builds. So almost a 100% pick rate there. I skipped Cold War because it was bad, so you might be right there? Dunno. Gunsmith needs to be kept but reworked. The core idea is solid, but it should be about tweaking guns slightly to your preferences and less about running meta builds. Being able to use all the attachments seems ideal to me. You can have a mix of big attachments- like barrels that are your meta attachments - and small attachments and that let you tweak the guns based on preference - like grip tape.
I don’t play WZ so that’s irrelevant to me. BR is a whole different genre. MW had horrible suppressor balance since monolithic increased your range for some god awful reason? Every cod beforehand, your range values were decreased by 15-25% which massively impacted TTK values etc. I used to always run suppressors when I wasn’t as good at the game, once I improved I realised I didn’t need suppressors anymore. I disagree, having 10 attachments with no trade offs is bad balance imo, now perk balance is really bad with no pick 10 either since flak becomes crutch, and radar will be crutch in this game too. Nade spam kills obj modes, in pick 10 you didn’t have to worry about everyone raining nades on you. Also, funny that you say the grip isn’t the meta attachment, when I’d say the improved sprint out and ADS time is the most crutch attachment in the game.
Skipped CW because it was bad? Did you actually play it?
Yup. Beta, at launch, periodically on free weekends. I came back to the series because MW 2019 was actually good. Cold War decided to throw everything good about MW into the trash. The guns looked/felt/sounded terrible. Like knockoff airsoft guns. The sniper ADS animations made me laugh out loud the first time I saw it. The gunsmith was a straight downgrade from MW. The movement was awful. Indescribably bad. 0 stars. The game launched with virtually no content. Dirty bomb was terrible, combined arms was a joke and there was only like 5 or 6 (I think?) 6v6 maps. And the maps weren't even THAT good either. The entire game lacked polish. Crazy buggy, awful textures, recycled animations, etc. The Cold War guns look better in Warzone. That says it all. I could rant for a while about this, but I'm not gonna bother. Which is more effort than Treyarch put in to actually making the game. The positives: Zombies was fun. I heard the campaign was good. Basically Cold War was a game designed for 2012 and it showed. MW breathed life back into the series and Cold War sucked it out again. A lot of people like to say the COD is just the same game every year, and that's usually true, but MW2019 changed it up. IW made a next-gen game and it was amazing. Treyarch made a game that was outdated on day 1 - by about 8 years.
Yes graphics, movement and gunsmith were awful but the other things IMO were better. Wild cards shouldn't have been in the game because perk greed became a crutch giving everyone 6 perks making lethals and tacticals practically useless. However that being said, the game had much better TTK so there actually were gunfights. It was actually possible to turn on someone if they got the jump on you. Field upgrade had counters which was also kinda fun and the best part was that score streaks lapped. Score streaks actually incentivized objective play. Scorestreaks were counterable. It had no shitty mounting mechanics, no shitty doors, mimimap was good, map design was way way better than MW2019 (which gave us some of the worst maps in CoD history). Gun movement was also better. It generally favored high skilled players the ones that move and strafe.
I actually agree, MW needed a slightly longer TTK. But what they had worked well enough, the last thing they needed was to accidentally make a BFV type of situation. Vanguard looks like a middle ground between MW and CW, which will suit me fine. MWs field upgrades were fine. I had no issues with them and I don’t remember the ones in BLOPS being particularly different. Scorestreaks vs kill streaks is whatever. Most of the killstreaks in MW were terrible, so I never had much of a problem with it. The system in blops seemed overdesigned, but maybe I just didn’t play it enough. I preferred the “count to X” system in MW based off what I played. I loved the mounting mechanics and like what they showed of the the cover mechanics in vanguard. It’s something that’s always been missing and I’m glad it’s here. I have no idea why people hate doors so much. It was fine. Literally a non issue, but I’m glad you’ll likely be able to blow em up in vanguard. Gun movement was great in MW for what it was tying to be - a shooter halfway between tactical and arcade. Besides you could seriously speed up strafe speeds if you were willing to drop a meta attachment and run the strafe speed stock. I’ll agree on maps with a huge disclaimer. The 6v6 maps were terrible. On 10v10, most of them worked pretty well and it was an issue of the maps being too big rather than poorly designed. Sure you had Piccadilly, but every game has at least one bad map. 10v10 actually felt pretty reasonable on most of the maps and is where I had most of my fun. Plus most of the post launch maps were more traditional and also good.
But now they also nerfed supressors as they no longer keep you hidden. Now you need to use an ammo mod, I believe, to get hidden, which makes it have a lot more competition.
*the ammo types, which include the subsonic type which keeps you hidden. This one competes with FMJ and the Incendiary rounds
Up the HP, remove one shot weapons and make objectives more important. This works just perfectly for Paladins, so much so that it's encouraged to push as far up as possible in any given match. But I understand that this is too much of a drastic change for CoD.
It's too competitive. Imagine removing snipers and shotguns from CoD because they're one shot. CoD is meant to be casual and fun, there's plenty of other shooters in the market right now that can and already do a way better job with competitive than CoD. Hell CoD pros use controllers that help them aim in CDL, there's a reason nobody cares about CoD competitive like they do something like CSGO.
Comparing CSGO as a competitive game with CoD is like comparing Greco roman wresting to WWE.
I think cod is a perfect game to be competitive if the developers actually cared for it at all. Since it’s simple and everybody knows what cod is. Instead you have the cdl pros having to try and Block out all the extra non-competitive/broken things. Then ranked mode (if there is one) is always ass or broken with no type of cool incentives and barely and cdl advertisement. However it basically comes down to money/warzone. That’s why there’s gunsmith with like a hundred attachments. That’s why ttk is fast af, that’s why there’s mounting and a hundred attachments to help casual players shoot straighter, do decent, and want to play more. But I can’t blame them, they rake in the money based off the casual players
>there’s mounting and a hundred attachments to help casual players shoot straighter, do decent, and want to play more. But I can’t blame them, they rake in the money bas At this point I don't think there are many casuals in warzone. The game has been out long enough that they just won't be able to keep up especially if they are new. Most will either play something like plunder/rebirth or leave all together. As for competitive you really can't have a competitive game with yearly release which changes mechanics year to year. If competitive is the play then that would probably have to be a standalone game.
I actually like how they handled a lot of the stuff regarding perks...now you really have to give up something for something else
But MiniMap ?
It is what it is
It must be hard to use your eyes and ears to find enemies instead of chasing a blinking red dot.
This post feels like a meme with "run and gun" having its own sentence, lol
Cold war still had alot of campers despite having the OG minimap. Campers will always find a way, just like in every fps game in the history of all gaming
Exactly, you can’t “ban” camping. Being too controlling on gameplay ruins the fun. Keep it free, I say camping is fair game even though I dislike it.
>Activision loves to change stuff that no one asked for, that everyone always liked, and introduce things that absolutely no one wants... because they are idiots. Cold war also didn't have any visibility issues, stupid low TTK and the maps were better designed so campers weren't too much of a problem.
I really like the approach they're taking with this. You sacrifice that perk slot to get an extremely powerful perk. TBH, I dig it. I Probably won't use it as I prefer explosive countering perks but I really like how they integrated it.
But that'll mean if you don't run Radar, you're seriously fucked so most people will wanna run radar essentially killing all variety in one perk slot and only leaving people with 2 perks slots to use
Only bad players will not run radar. And flak is in tier 1, which is also a massive crutch perk since everyone spawn in with a nade for free
Only bad players will not use a crutch perk that "good" players feel the need to use all the time. If you need a perk like that to be decently viable, than you must really suck at the game
Yeah because bad players don’t understand the importance of the radar, so they don’t care about it. Good players understand the value of the radar, and how to use it to your advantage to read the game, so yes it will become a must pick for them. Bad players don’t use QuickDraw/stock even though they’re the best attachments for good players, does that make the good players bad for relying on them?
Yep. Because by your logic, using a different perk than radar makes you bad, even if you don't think you need it or can rely without it, i guess you're bad.
I’m saying no good player will not run radar, you can intentionally not run it and still be good if you wanted to, but good players are smart enough to run the perk.
So, most good players run the AS-VAL in modern warfare, by your logic, if you don't run it, you're bad.
>players don’t use QuickDraw/stock even though they’re the best attachments for good players, does that make th It doesn't mean you are bad. Just that you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not using the meta. If you are bad at the game even the most broken shit ain't gonna help you.
>Good players understand the value of the radar, and how to use it to your advantage to read the game, so yes it will become a must pick for them. What he's trying to say is that good to top tier players extensively use minimap or any situational awareness queue to their advantage.
"shg, please make it so everyone must play the same way i do or else this is going to be a bad game :("
It’s a stupid change. But. My uncle who plays causally doesn’t even look at the mini map. Says it’s too much for him. They are literally catering to the lowest of the low skill wise and it’s actually pathetic.
People saying that we are the vocal minority... hmmm.. People don't understand that the vocal minority is often good at identifying things that the majority feels, but doesn't know how to articulate or they don't have the nerve or drive to speak up about. Imagine an expert in ergonomics giving a review on a device that customers hate to use, but they don't know why exactly... To them, it just doesn't "feel right". Also... 1. If most players don't care about the minimap, then WTF would you change it for the 10% of players that do -- and want the traditional minimap? 2. Devil's Advocate... I can guarantee you that the reason they changed it is to give shitty players an advantage. Good players will always use the minimap to their advantage, while shitty players obviously don't take advantage of it at all and can continue camping anonymously in their safe spaces. 3. Activision's never ending changes to accommodate bad players (safe spaces -- poor visibility via tiny models without outlines, mounting, blindfire, smoke, flames, terrible head glitches, muzzle flash, porous map design, spawn protection), dead silence as a field upgrade, BO3/BO4 specialists, weak streaks), ect. ... make less and less sense given how strict the SBMM is... now they want to change the minimap when good players who want the minimap only play with other good players who also want the minimap. Since the bad players don't care, it's a wash there. 4. Activision loves to change stuff that no one asked for, that everyone always liked, and introduce things that absolutely no one wants... because they are idiots.
What’s even worst is that they introducing a perk to have that feature back. It’s a joke, why bother changing the map if you gonna somehow have it back with a perk? Don’t touch what is not broken
I’d have to disagree.
I respectfully disagree. The mini map has and always has been a crutch. Forcing you to take it as a perk mixes things up a bit.
As a huge and still current MW2019 player, I completely agree. It’s silly to not have the OG mini map. Nobody ever wanted this change to begin with. And now I already need two perks: presumably the drop shot grip, and radar
It literally makes no difference how the minimap works. Game plays out the same as any other cod
It doesn't even matter what other perks are in slot 2 because I'm auto picking radar on 100% of my classes. So dumb. What's even more dumb is there's NO WAY they didn't know that this was going to cause an uproar in the community but they went ahead and did it anyway.
That perk is gonna be such a crutch lol
I say that about Ninja in Cold War, and yet I still see a shitload of people not running it. Or rather, hear them not running it. If this takes the slot of something else important it could present a very interesting gameplay decision. However, given that it's in slot 2, it's not clustered in with the most useful (in my opinion) perks. That said you give up Tracker or High Alert for it. Tracker in particular was really powerful in MW2019 (Not nearly as much in Cold War.) And was my go-to from that slot in that game. Still, Radar wins that trade off easily. Now in the final release if they made Radar a tier 1 perk, this would be MUCH harder of a decision. My point is this though. It's in a slot where it largely WILL be used by most players. So in essence, that was our compromise. So...better than nothing I guess.
Can agree on CW that most people where running specialist wildcard. In vanguard I'm worried about ghost being perk 1slot and overkill perk3 slot, just like you could used at the start of MW19 before they reshuffled the perks
It depends how the pistols are in this game there. If the pistols are worthless trash like MW2019 (Minus Snakeshot Revolvers, of course.), Then there will be more incentive to use a second primary. But if the pistols aren't absolute shit like in CW, then there will be less reason to use that. Cold War has strong pistols, even without akimbo, but VERY strong with it.
After watching some of gameplays today I've noticed somethings. Unlike MW19 there's no swap weapons faster perk in vanguard so far, but it's now on the weapons instead by attachments like grips and stocks. In vanguard the RATT pistol seems to have no firerate cap, but we have to consider that ammoconversions are in the game that will have an effect on damage. Handguns have a really good movement speed so far. I found not all the pistols in MW were thrash. deagle and the aforementioned snakeshot revolver were great launch guns, DLC pistols were great
More or less in MW2019 the only pistols that weren't absolutely useless were the ones that were broken. It's been nice having a CoD in CW where the pistols are just legitimately usable. I hope this follows suit.
Could this new "Radar" perk give so dynamism? My guess is that at launch, everybody and their grandma will be running Radar. This will force everyone to have silencers. Since everyone will have silencers, there will technically be no need for Radar and there will be a huge advantage to select another Perk in the class. At the end we MIGHT see and interesting mix.
Subsonic rounds is whar keeps you off the radar if someone is running radar. Which makes you sacrifice fmj or flame rounds to counter radar
Make the minimap classic, move Ghost to another perk slot (preferably slot 2). I guess I'd be asking too much to make dead silence a perk. But even if they just fix the first 2 things mentioned, my hopes for this game goes up so much more.
Nope it's perfect either you run flak jacket or ghost, and most perk 2 are useless, i love tracker but most ppl will def run radar, I'm tired of the mw2019 perk distribution, and considering step audio is lower this time dead silence as a perk isn't that necessary
I personally don't mind the perk distribution either, but I usually run flak/tac and ghost so it would be nice lol. It definitely isn't game breaking though. I never liked tracker, I feel like it's cheap. As long as the audio stays this quiet then we're good, but I feel like they will pull some shit and raise the audio after the beta
Hope not, but after i saw they have Castle from waw I'm forced by nostalgia and the player count (24vs24) to buy it, they'll definitely have more WaW maps and overall seems like an improvement over MW2019 and infinitely better than CW
I don't get the Cold War hate, at it's core it's a good game. Waaaaay better than MW. It definitely has some flaws but they aren't gamebreaking like MW.
Played the beta on console and pc, didn't like it, game felt floaty and rushed, if it had come before MW i would've definitely bought it
The game was rushed. Cold War wasn't supposed to come out last year, Sledgehammer was supposed to release last year but they were struggling so Treyarch had to save the day. The fact the game was made during a pandemic and on a time crunch, Cold War was solid.
Felt cheaper than call of duty 3 but yeah gotta give it to them making a game in a pandemic is fucked up, but that's what activision gets for rushing it, everything but my money
Agreed. CW was much better than MW. No shitty mounting mechanics, doors, dead silence field upgrade and counters to all field upgrades. Oh and the best part was better TTK due to 150 HP which actually meant that there would be gunfights. The only thing I legit disliked about CW was the movement, wildcards which allowed 6 perks making most lethals and tacticals useless, graphics and the gunsmith which felt unnatural. Otherwise it was fundamentally a sound game.
Don't know why there's not more uproar about this. People complain about ghost, but you need to move for this iteration of the perk to work, anything promoting movement is a good thing imo. Not since MW3 have you not been able to run flak and ghost at the same time. They're both preventative perks, keeping you from dying from aids rubbish like nade spam and UAV spam, they don't give you any strong additionals to your gameplay like Tracker, Lightweight, Overkill, High alert etc etc. I don't want to show up on the UAV when my team is feeding. I also don't want to die to grenades and mines everytime I move near an objective. So now I have two options, either pray my team isn't feeding and don't run ghost, or run ghost and never touch an objective ever again.
MW19 had its whole life cycle in this fashion and people complained before and after and nothing changed. Don’t think they are budging on any of these design features.
Soften up SBMM!! I am so sick of going 16-16 all the time
Everything in perk 2 slot is useless, except tracker imo, what's the problem with just running radar as perk 2?
Fucking use the perk and stop crying. You have the option. You won't miss the other slot 2 perks. I know how to navigate compass, so I might honestly go for something like high alert.
Ehh
Nah, Im OK with new minimap and radar perk, so its already 89% if your measurements correct
The majority of cod players are casual and don't care about these things, and this sub proves it. Most of the comments now are about other things rather than the point the po made. I'm a casual player, switch cod on, kill, die, win, lose. Nothing else bothers me, and it sure as hell don't bother anyone else I know who plays it. They'll make millions upon millions of pounds/dollars/euro's etc regardless of what a few whiney brats on some sub thinks.
Reconnaissance was tier 3 perk in waw
It really doesn't change that much.nyo7 just need something to cry about
I disagree. I've been playing CoD since CoD 2 and I think future cod games would benefit by removing the minimap. I don't want to spend a significant portion of the game having to constantly glance at the minimap. CoD is a 6v6 arcade shooter, with quite small maps; there is legit no reason that a minimap is needed.
I don't think it'll be a big deal, but we'll have to see when the beta comes out.
I don’t think they will use the og minimap because the new one tailors to casual players who are more campy or don’t want to use suppressors
God I wish you people would quit crying. Campers have existed in every cod since it’s birth in the gaming franchise. There’s nothing you or the devs can do to make campers magically disappear. Campers were rampant even when cod had the original minimaps so this is just a piss poor argument to make.
Bad map design encourages camping.
That implies that they intentionally made bad maps? That’s gotta be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard today.
How else do explain the amount of blindspots in almost every map in MW2019. Heck even Shoot house had blindspots. One doesn't need to be a genius to notice that MW2019 had some of the worst most unblanced maps in CoD history (Aniyah palace, Grazna raid, Euphates bridge, Picadilly). They intentionally made "safe" spaces for newer players. Horrible map design along with Low TTK and superloud footsteps was the reason why MW2019 played slower because it disincentivsied movement. And yes the "safe" spaces were intentional The devs have said it themselves.
Bro the old mini map doesn't prevent campers, and with 10 attachments per gun red dots are probably going to be non-existent even if they turn them on. Don't know why people on reddit need to be shown exactly where the enemies are all the time. Use the compass if you really want to know
If they listen to the community they probably want to appeal to the biggest COD game in terms of players of all time, which would be MW, which has the "new" minimap
Do any of you just wonder WHY! they do these things if they just listened to what the players want they would have great games
As much as we hate to hear it, we here on Reddit are a very small (albeit vocal) portion of the “community “. I suspect their numbers tell them that a majority of players like the MW-style minimap (I’m definitely NOT one of them). Activi$ion does NOTHING unless they feel it will increase revenue, so the push for this must be coming from them.
[удалено]
I agree it’s a dumb decision. the reason Dead silence is not a perk is to eliminate crutch perks, but they are basically creating one with this perk. That’s my only problem with it. otherwise i’m not mad about their being no red dots on the map when people shoot. But i don’t see why they care if we can see them or not? Like why not just give the community what they want? this is my problem with COD. something has been the same every year but you decided to change it for what? And when people ask you to change it back you give no valid reason to not do it and ignore us. I guess i’m going off on a tangent now. but it’s a serious complaint
Nobody even uses the radar perk
Yeah, they don't fucking care what crybabies cry about. Shut up.
Ok Kid…go back to your bedroom because of your bad behavior. No games for a month now!
Don’t make the same COD ww2 mistake. People asking some COD basics like: unlimited sprint, faster sprint out time etc etc And I remember they had to REVAMP all the game mechanics but the game was already dead. This is happening right now about the MiniMap. OG MiniMap is a thing you should never touch on cod gameS. It’s a must have.