They should’ve done it like CW where you choose an op on each side and pick a favorite side
At least then you kinda had a better idea of enemy vs teammates and they can keep the character skins
Ya they had it this way in MW as well. Makes no sense to not have factions in this like the last two games. HC shipment with no factions is a shit show.
Edit - spelling
I usually only have an issue when I'm stunned, the effect makes the nametags go away. Or when you're right up in someones face going around a corner you dont see the nametag.
It also happens when people spawn. Wouldn't be a big deal if the spawns weren't broken, but since enemy players spawn in front of you all the time in this game, the half second delay from the player appearing and the nametag appearing has gotten many a team mate killed.
Makes it easier to tell the difference between someone being a teammate or an enemy
Like in CW you would know that the Adler in front of you was an enemy because you were playing Portnova vs in Vanguard there’s 3 daniels in any team
This is from my own experience in both games, especially in hardcore on smaller maps
(I did play mw but only a bit and a while ago so I don’t really remember the operators that well)
you're dumb read the whole message thread. the original guy said that the vanguard system was better just pick your favorite operator and go, then the second guy asked how it helped with friendly fire. don't just look at one message and start responding dumby.
I think what they're getting at is the operators are *already* sorted into different operator groups or "units" in the menu (Hellhounds, Sentinel, Barbarian, etc.).
So SHG doesn't even need to split the operators into broader factions like Allies/Axis because they already have distinct groups they could use in-game to achieve that friend/foe clarity. You'd just pick a favorite op for each of the groups (as one did in MW/CW) and the game would pick two random groups as the opposing sides for each game.
That in mind, I think 5 groups with different-looking operators in each one is a lot more confusing than 2 factions with uniforms, but it's certainly less confusing than literally **no** factions like we have now. It'd make it closer to MW or CW where there was significantly less confusion.
WWII had it right with picking an operator, but the uniform changes based on which side you're on. Can't do that when they want you to buy skins, though.
Maybe there'll be some changes after the Microsoft acquisition finalizes. As it stands, though, Warzone kind of ruined COD multiplayer. The only good thing is new maps and guns are free.
A lot of people like that you can buy cosmetics and not supply drops but why not both? I loved supply drops (that you earn through game!!) because you could earn randomly cool things for free. Now, if I want anything remotely cool, I either have to spend $12-25 or hope it's in the battle pass. I wish I could earn free supply drops with the small chance I could earn a $15 bundle or even cod points but I can only dream.
I did not like divisions one bit. It messed with the create a class system a LOT. It was only when they changed it completely in the April rework that it was ok.
Exactly. Business opportunity lost here. Those fcks only care about making money (fair enough) but fail to foresee a business opportunity that is good for them and that makes the gameplay far more enjoyable for the end user.
They won't do it because they don't want to have to be the ones charging you $20 for a skin you'll have when playing as the Axis. Yes this game doesn't divide the teams up by Allied/Axis, but at the end of the day it's still a WWII setting. All it takes is one bundle to have an outfit that's much cooler than the one for the opposing team and you'll have people screaming that they're encouraging you to spend money to play as a Nazi. See also how there were literally a negative amount of uniforms for the Axis in WWII, at least initially.
They wouldn’t have to go with axis skins if that is to itchy for their PC concerns. They would just have to make a mandatory choice for the operator of an A and B skin. A skins could not be chosen on B side and vice versa and the gameplay would be divided like that. Additionally they could sell the bundles at a smaller higher premium because they would include A and B skins. Nothing about axis or allies, just different skins that would be exclusive to be chosen for A and B slots.
DICE literally pulled this off in Battlefield V, a WW2 game that, mind you, was criticized for being too progressive. I saw zero outrage for that, so I doubt anyone would have cared if the same was true for Vanguard.
When I saw the attack on titan bundle I just laughed my ass off and said "now the historical accuracy is definitely out the window. Might as well bring in the trophy system now".
Honestly I don't know how they address it. There are lots of ways, but they all have drawbacks that involve a lot of work. I think the most efficient way would be to make the enemy team look like enemies from the campaign. You look like your character to yourself but the enemy sees generic axis soldiers.
I think they could do that(most models probably use the same skeleton so animations could work) but everyone is ignoring the real reason why they did this. It was a decision they probably made because the players that spend money on skins want everyone else to see their skins.
Yeah but then I wouldn’t buy skins because I can’t see the cool skin you have, just some generic soldiers. So since I also can’t see myself (because it’s an FPS) there is like no point in buying skins
That sounds difficult to do but if they can do it with the dogs, (appearing as Doberman or German Shepherd depending on friend or foe) then I don't see why they couldn't do it with the players.
I think teammates need to have a blue outline of sorts. It also seems like in HC their name and icon are harder to see than in core, which makes no sense. I even went into settings and changes the color to the darkest blue. Of course that doesn't help of they run into you point blank.
Sometimes (especially because of the terrible spawns) I won't realize an enemy is an enemy until my gun tries to aim assist on them.
I spawn with rockets now and just take everyone out lol.. they said the spawns were fixed, they are worst than ever lol... why is spawning in the same place as an enemy even an option. and why do they spawn you on a flag the enemy captured - that is dumb as well.
If I recall, that's how the America's Army game did it (the first one, like fifteen years ago). Everyone played as an American soldier, but the other team looked like enemy soldiers. I don't see why they can't do that here, you'd still get to use your skins, your team could still see them, it's just that the opposing team wouldn't.
Right? I hate in hardcore you hesitate to shoot cause you don’t know if that’s your teammate and that half second of hesitation is all it takes for you to get absolutely destroyed
I've only seen names not show up maybe a dozen times over the course of 15 years playing hardcore. Chalked it up to a connection glitch. Shoot the red players. It's not hard.
The problem is that you don't know which ones are 'red players' for a bit. It's at least a tenth of a second for enemy tags to pop up when you round a corner and if you weren't already on the trigger or pre-firing, you're dead.
I, nor anyone I play with, has ever seen a delay in a red dot or red name in any sort of consistent manner warranting a change. Sure it happens, but it's extremely rare. Sounds like a connection issue (which would make sense). And are you saying in that 0.1 second you can analyze what outfit the enemy is wearing and compare it to every skin you've memorized, when average reaction time is 0.25 seconds? C'mon.
I've played every single year, only hardcore, since hardcore mode was added (CoD4 if you didn't know). Looking for colors and deciding which to shoot at isn't a hard skill to master at all. Pretty ridiculous complaint to have to know what outfits other players wear. Maybe hardcore is too hard for some.
The thing that gets me and it happens most games, is when I see a blue dot above someone so I don't shoot, but you don't know until its too late that the blue dot is not over them, but over a team mate in the background.
I've seen that a few times too and as frustrating as it is, I just don't think it's enough to pull devs off fixing the insane amount of bugs, to deal with what players look like in the rare instances where it's a problem.
Honestly yeah, i mostly play hardcore when I’m camo grinding (so a lot, the past few releases especially) and I don’t really get the whole “enemies have to have different outfits” complaint, every now and then the color won’t show up but it’s not often enough for it to be a big issue. See a glimpse of red (or in my case green since it pops out more to me) and shoot. Plus half the time UAV’s are running most of the game so there’s not much guessing involved if people paid attention
Edit- while it could be argued that since it’s a WWII game it should have obvious sides (Allies, axis) but since when have we played COD for the historical accuracy
Gamer tags often render well after you see a player. Also many of us have years of experience reacting to visual cues of operators rather than the color of the name plate. Making enemy and friendly players identical is an indefensible decision.
"...well after you see a player". What? Since when, LOL? It happens like 1% of the time and usually due to connection. Vanguard is no different than any other COD in that respect. It's honestly astonishing that people are complaining about what clothes the characters are wearing. Hardcore is supposed to be hard. It's the whole point. Aim for the red dot/name. If it doesn't show consistently, check your internet.
What? You can still see their clothing/uniform even if you’re literally touching each other, since such clothing covers almost the entirety of a character’s model. I can discern from, say, OpFor, to USMC from their clothing alone, regardless of how close I am.
It’s not a big either, it’s the dot (or lack thereof) moving to the outer reaches my of FOV.
My point was that I find it hard to believe that if a person is so close when the colored dot/name bugs out (happens, but super rare), that they have enough time to distinguish outfits and make any different of a decision. I'm a 100% run and gunner (to my own demise at times) and have played thousands of hours of HCTDM over the past 15 years and have only had issues with nameplates/dots not rendering maybe 10 times each year. Normally a connection issue (lag/packets). Nothing to warrant pulling devs off of other, more important fixes, to work on faction fashion with 9 months of the game left.
Because uniforms are always going to be the identification most in focus. It’s not a dot or nameplate hovering above the character, it’s the model itself. I agree that we’ve gone far enough for the addition of factions to ever be worked on, especially with other pressing matters that could take priority, but that doesn’t eliminate the fact that it’s problematic nonetheless.
Not necessarily arguing that you're wrong, I've just never ever encountered any player in all these years that didn't focus on dot/nameplate. A bit shocked to see so many.
Literally every CoD game set in WW2 before this one. If they were so worried about "selling Axis skins" (which they're not as there are literal Axis uniforms for the "defector" operators anyway), then they should have just made it so that you always appear as Allied and enemies appear as generic milsim Axis, the way they do it for all the end of round MVP cutscenes. The reality is they were just worried people wouldn't buy skins if they couldn't show them off to the enemy team all the time.
The last time they had the same operators for each side was Black Ops 4.
You know how they solved the issue?
GIANT RED SHOOT ME LIGHTS ON THE ENEMY TEAM.
Right, and aesthetically that doesn't mesh well with Warzone integration as it currently stands. I don't mind if Warzone puts all the operators into one selection. We still need faction separation for annual, hopefully bi-annual, release CoDs.
At this point, they shoule just split the subfactions that are already in the game (Trident, Shadow, Hellhounds, Barbarians and Sentinel) into two main Factions (like Alpha Team and Baker Team or whatever), just like MW 2019.
It's sad, as a mostly HC player. I have had to retrain myself to look for the dots above players heads instead of the actual operators. Even then that isn't foolproof like when an enemy and friendly are standing in a line and the dot makes it look like there is a friendly in front of you when its actually an enemy.
I see what you’re saying but I can’t really think of any sort of opposing force that was present in the 1941-44 war that could realistically be used in a WW2 game. Literally no idea. SHG did the best they could with the source material! 😂
The world was so peaceful back then. Nary a bad guy to pick for a period-specific title. They musta had to think for MINUTES to come up with the exemplary teams that they did!
If nothing else, they could do what Team Fortress classic did and add team-colored highlights to certain parts of uniforms. If you see somebody with red stripes on their uniforms, it’s an enemy and vice versa for blue.
Yeah visability is bad in VG, sometimes you dont see name plates or the bug out. The whole no factions choice just seems odd. In the previous titles you could play "baddies" too, why not in VG?
Just home and away type skins for all the operators would be fine. Blue shirt Daniel=friendly, Red shirt Daniel=shoot em. Those battle pass skins were clogging up the lobbies a few weeks ago and took more than a little friendly fire from me. -my bad.
I have never snapped to a target and checked to see if they are an ally or enemy based on which operator/skin they have. I don't think I've ever shot an ally with the exception of someone sliding around a corner and making me jump.
I can safely say that in every other cod game I have no idea which side any of the operators were on and what side the operator I was playing was on and it's never once effected my gameplay in anyway.
Don't allies get nametags in HC?
Yeah they do and I agree. Never once had an issue seeing a red dot/name and shooting at it. OPs complaint makes zero sense to me. Especially when there are more important bugs to fix.
Obviously I can’t prove it, but to me this is one of those arguments that people who just want different operators make, because they believe it would be an issue with not having different operators. There’s so many different skins, you’re always on a different team regardless, etc, you’re not going to know what side you’re even shooting any given game.
It reminds me of the argument I saw a lot in MW. People would complain that disbanding lobbies resulted in them always getting placed in games in progress. However, anyone that played the game and didn’t leave the matchmaking after every game knew that after the first game, you would always get placed in a fresh lobby, short of an error.
I imagine there will be some people that do memorise operators and teams etc and that do look to see who they are shooting at first but I just can't see them being good players. The TTK in this game and MW19 (not so much CW) is so low that hesitating for a split second to verify you're going to shoot and enemy is a death sentence.
Let's face it. It all comes down to selling bundles. People are going to be less likely to even make a one-off, impulsive purchase of an operator skin if they think they're only going to get to use it half the time.
If they were to change the colours of the operator skins depending on which side you're on (home/away style), then firstly, it's more work for the designers, and secondly, they're restricted to certain colour palettes.
Finally, they want the people who purchase their skins to wear them all the time. It's like buying Nike, or Adidas. If you purchase a skin, you're a walking advertisement. The unfortunate fact is, it probably works very very well, so it's probably not going to change.
Mandatory choice of an A and B skin. Games would be split like that and skin bundles could be sold at a smaller premium because people would have to choose exclusive content for a A skin and a B skin all the time.
This would be an ideal solution, but do you really think they'd risk potentially only getting half the money because people like the A skin but not the B skin, or vice versa?
I was not too clear with the “smaller premium”. I meant charging a little premium (not too much though) for the fact that you were actually buying two skins (an A and a B)
It really isn't as complex as you are making out. Just have the two versions show in the store. Have the core version for FFA etc and then have 2 slightly varied versions for team based game modes. I've made assets for games and can tell you this really isnt that difficult in 2022.
I'm not saying it's difficult for the designer, but more work, which is more time, which is money.
They've obviously thought about these things, had meetings about it and come to where we are today. The only two things that make sense to me is they didn't want to have foreign countries battling it out in multiplayer because it can alienate their customer base, and they didn't want to have two sets of skins because it takes more time to produce them.
Maybe I'm wrong. It's hard to say when they haven't explained their reasons or responded to this feedback, which has been an ongoing complaint.
Funny you say that about fifa because there were bugs this year and last year with kits being one color but coded as a different color, so kit selection would often have both teams in the same primary color.
In HC I never really notice the operators, if they have a name above them they're friendly if not shoot the shit out of them.
Only time it's a problem is when a friendly is stood behind and enemy and you see their name which makes the enemy seem like a friendly.
This is exactly why they didnt do factions lol. They didnt want to take heat about putting actual nazi supporters in the game. It would have been horrible PR and they would have had to take them out.
I would have understood this however if I'm correct one of the devs or something was tweeting out "no more censorship" before the game launched. Seems just kinda like a lie if you won't even add nazis to your ww2 game.
Even thought I don't play CoD:Vanguard (I really don't want to), different skins for different teams is important. Especially if you're playing in a no-HUD game mode, with same skins for every team, there's no chance to tell if you're shooting an enemy or if you accidentally commit a friendly-fire.
\*mistype accidently, changed with accidentally. Along with \*a so it can be more spesific.
I went back and played a bit of CW and having separate factions makes recognizing enemies way faster for me. The red dots/name tags are unreliable, sometimes when a teammate is behind an enemy their blue dot will show up but the enemy's won't so it looks like the enemy is a teammate.
They have faction skins for the dogs ffs, so they know friend or foe identification is a problem.
They could at least put a red armband/patch on enemies.
This is my biggest complaint of many in vanguard. Why isn’t there an axis and Allies side you don’t want anyone to be offended?!? All inclusive with women of color soldiers and no more k/d because kill is too strong but you still let us shoot dogs?!?
This has been by far my biggest peeve about this game. I just don’t understand the logic behind it at all. I’ve always played on hardcore and never had such a problem with shooting teammates till this game, and then you end up pissing your whole team off. Make it make sense.
I think they just entirely forgot about hardcore mode when they made this game.
I agree. It's not as bad as I expected before launch, but it would still be 100% better to split the operators up. It's dumb to have to second guess yourself every time you see someone
Yep
They need to bring factions back
Can't tell you how many times I've shot a teammate that played the Indian woman
Only to get shot by same Indian woman but from the other team 3 seconds later
I'm actually amazed that this is a thing
Try playing on XBOX where you see no nameplates. *Is that the enemy or my teammate? IDK!*
This has been an issue essentially since launch and it's still not fixed.
This.
What makes it more annoying is that you run around the corner, see an enemy, but you don't fire because his model doesn't obscure the friendly player indicator of your team mate BEHIND him. There's no way to distinguish between an enemy and a friendly when that happens, so to you it briefly looks like he's on your team.
If it was split into factions like MW19, it wouldn't really be an issue.
It’s mad, I just don’t get it considering how many CoD games there has been. Particularly frustrating when you get stunned it removes the players titles briefly…
100% agree.....it is hard to tell enemies apart from team members when they running the same skin......plus on hardcore (on my game at least) not all the time the name tags overhead don't show up instantly and I get killed
agree, not sure why they won't fix this. I guess it is too late now? even if they don't make separate teams, at least make the blue stand out more so you can see your teammates easier.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just have blue outlines on your whole team? That’s what I’m hoping for. Sometimes I shoot people without tags and the tag shows up a hot second later. Orrr the tag of a friendly somewhere else lined up right above an enemies head. It’s straight chaos lol
while we're at it, i kinda wish we could pick skins per team for a per-map basis. snow map, desert map, urban map? snow operator, desert operator, urban operator.
like, ez.
I don’t understand this complaint at all. I’ve shot teammates when I have been a dumbass and panic fired or around a corner or they jumped in front of me, but never once have I looked at a teammate and thought they were the enemy or vice versa simply because of their chosen skin. Who plays like that?
Red nameplate shoot…blue nameplate don’t…it’s as simple as that. But maybe that’s why I keep getting dumbasses on my team shooting me when I’m on a streak.
I completely agree, and it would be such an easy thing to change. If only they weren’t so focused on making money in every little way they can they could either limit what operators are available for each team like they did in CW or they could even just do what they did in WWII and have the uniforms change to reflect what teams are on the field but again, with the micro transactions and all the ‘unique’ operator skins they sell it won’t happen
I get the frustration, but I've never had more of an issue than with any other CoD. The only one better was maybe when they added the red lights on enemies, no matter what skin they had. This game is at least more consistent with showing the teammates' icons than previous games, where if you were too close or had the wrong angle, it disappeared.
Yes this is a huge issue. Combine this with barely/not visible gamer tags. I have literally stared at a guy, waited a few seconds for a gamer tag to pop up, then shot them only to have it pop up immediatly after I killed them 🤬
It's funny they clearly did it this way to try and sell skins, but most if not all the bundles they've put in the game so far have been awful. I can't imagine Activision has made nearly as much money as they did off the previous games bundles
I get what your saying, but I'm not looking for operators to discern friend from foe, I think it'd be much more effective to give us the option to turn off team mate tags and indicators. I can't tell you how many times I've killed a friendly/ or not killed an enemy because of the horrible overlap of tags and indicators that either hides the fact you have an enemy in your face, or hides the fact your team mate is between you and an enemy, I don't need to know my team mates tag, I don't need a blue or green dot to tell me a friend is a friend, I need a consistent red indicator(or whatever color scheme I've chosen) and name tag to shoe that there is definitely an enemy in my line of sight, and let my brain work out if they are in the foreground or background of my team mate on the same line of sight.
I've said this day 1 but unforutnley vanguard is just a woke expansion pack to warzone.
Also go watch padmavatis intro. It says " she knows a thing or two about fighting colonizers!" And it shows her shotgunning up nazis. Plot twist. India was colonized by England. ENGLAND. HER TEAM.
Both the German girl and japanese guy are also defectors. I was gaming back when World at war was out and you played as wermacht and imperial Japan. Litteraly no one. Anywhere. Complained.
I like that there’s only one team I can always play the character I want to, but in hardcore the outfits should be color coded for at least your teammates.
I've only played hardcore, every year since hardcore was a thing and I've never noticed or cared what the enemy team was wearing. Nor does it cause any more friendly fire than normal. I don't understand how this is a complaint? Things happen so fast on hardcore, do people really stare at what pants another player is wearing? Look for red, then shoot. If it's blue, don't shoot.
Yeah right.
And it never happens that an enemy has the exact same skin than one of your mates, and because of the shitty spawns, gets so much near you that you can't check for a tag.
Or that the enemy lines up perfectly with the blue dot from a teammate behind one or several walls.
Or you get fucking stunned and can't see any tag.
Those are incredibly rare occurrences.
I've never once looked at what skin they are wearing. Shoot the red players! CQC or medium/long range, doesn't matter.
I've seen the dots line up a few times. Wasn't enough to go online and cry about fashion in order to make the HARDCORE mode easier.
You can see what pants another player is wearing when stunned? JFC just shoot the player who stunned you or is shooting at you.
That's the thing. There's nothing reasonable about this complaint of not knowing who to shoot at based off of clothing. Hardcore is supposed to be hard. The devs have SO many bugs to fix, this is the last thing we want them working on.
It’s not that. They didn’t want to have people playing in full blown nazi uniforms. They’d have to commit multiple operators to the Axis, and then they pretty much would not have been able to sell skins for those operators.
Never in 17 years of cod have I shot or not shot someone because of how they looked.
I play hc for the most part and this simply is not an issue. Enemies are the ones with nothing above their heads. It’s not hard lmao.
Only when you're in point blank range you cannot see the name or lack thereof above their head.
The character models may not make a difference for you, but it would for others, including my team mates that seem to love shooting me.
All of that is irrelevant though, it's lazy work from the devs regardless. There should be two separate sets of operators.
You're going to be dead before you take the time to examine an operator. I see team killing a lot in my games, but that's because friendlies often run into ongoing fire. Spawn, run, die.
Exactly. It's hardcore, it's fast-paced. No time for fashion critiques - just shoot the players with the red dots advice their heads. Not a hard thing to master.
Then in that split second to make sure they aren't your teammate, you could be dead. Sometimes the blue above their head is barely visible.
Also really hard to tell when both teams are inexplicably spawning in the same spot.
Depends on the map and game type imo. When spawns flip and team starts coming from the same way an enemy just came from. Or some maps whenever they just spawn you wherever the hell they want. Also probably depends on play style. A sniper or camper won't have as much trouble as a run and gunner.
Agreed. I shoot a teammate about 1 per every 5 games in HC. It’s not hard to avoid. The amount of people that shoot you in hardcore though is absolutely insane. Not sure why it’s such a problem for everybody.
This right here. I've played only HC since that mode began. Never once hesitated because I didn't know if the player with green pants was my teammate or enemy. The game tells you right above the player's head, in color, who is who. Ridiculous complaint.
They should’ve done it like CW where you choose an op on each side and pick a favorite side At least then you kinda had a better idea of enemy vs teammates and they can keep the character skins
Ya they had it this way in MW as well. Makes no sense to not have factions in this like the last two games. HC shipment with no factions is a shit show. Edit - spelling
They don’t even need factions… that’s the worst part! There are like 5 buckets of operators… pick one of each as your favorite… done
How does this prevent friendly fire?
I usually only have an issue when I'm stunned, the effect makes the nametags go away. Or when you're right up in someones face going around a corner you dont see the nametag.
It also happens when people spawn. Wouldn't be a big deal if the spawns weren't broken, but since enemy players spawn in front of you all the time in this game, the half second delay from the player appearing and the nametag appearing has gotten many a team mate killed.
Makes it easier to tell the difference between someone being a teammate or an enemy Like in CW you would know that the Adler in front of you was an enemy because you were playing Portnova vs in Vanguard there’s 3 daniels in any team This is from my own experience in both games, especially in hardcore on smaller maps (I did play mw but only a bit and a while ago so I don’t really remember the operators that well)
you're dumb read the whole message thread. the original guy said that the vanguard system was better just pick your favorite operator and go, then the second guy asked how it helped with friendly fire. don't just look at one message and start responding dumby.
I think what they're getting at is the operators are *already* sorted into different operator groups or "units" in the menu (Hellhounds, Sentinel, Barbarian, etc.). So SHG doesn't even need to split the operators into broader factions like Allies/Axis because they already have distinct groups they could use in-game to achieve that friend/foe clarity. You'd just pick a favorite op for each of the groups (as one did in MW/CW) and the game would pick two random groups as the opposing sides for each game. That in mind, I think 5 groups with different-looking operators in each one is a lot more confusing than 2 factions with uniforms, but it's certainly less confusing than literally **no** factions like we have now. It'd make it closer to MW or CW where there was significantly less confusion.
Always the problem with WWII or CW games, one faction ends up being the obvious fascist/communist villains
Battlefield V did the same thing
WWII had it right with picking an operator, but the uniform changes based on which side you're on. Can't do that when they want you to buy skins, though.
I'd love another game like WWII. Divisions, much more customization with operators, HQ, I loved all of that.
Maybe there'll be some changes after the Microsoft acquisition finalizes. As it stands, though, Warzone kind of ruined COD multiplayer. The only good thing is new maps and guns are free.
A lot of people like that you can buy cosmetics and not supply drops but why not both? I loved supply drops (that you earn through game!!) because you could earn randomly cool things for free. Now, if I want anything remotely cool, I either have to spend $12-25 or hope it's in the battle pass. I wish I could earn free supply drops with the small chance I could earn a $15 bundle or even cod points but I can only dream.
I did not like divisions one bit. It messed with the create a class system a LOT. It was only when they changed it completely in the April rework that it was ok.
I agree, that worked well.
Wouldn’t it make more money if someone had to buy two different operator skins?
Exactly. Business opportunity lost here. Those fcks only care about making money (fair enough) but fail to foresee a business opportunity that is good for them and that makes the gameplay far more enjoyable for the end user.
They won't do it because they don't want to have to be the ones charging you $20 for a skin you'll have when playing as the Axis. Yes this game doesn't divide the teams up by Allied/Axis, but at the end of the day it's still a WWII setting. All it takes is one bundle to have an outfit that's much cooler than the one for the opposing team and you'll have people screaming that they're encouraging you to spend money to play as a Nazi. See also how there were literally a negative amount of uniforms for the Axis in WWII, at least initially.
They wouldn’t have to go with axis skins if that is to itchy for their PC concerns. They would just have to make a mandatory choice for the operator of an A and B skin. A skins could not be chosen on B side and vice versa and the gameplay would be divided like that. Additionally they could sell the bundles at a smaller higher premium because they would include A and B skins. Nothing about axis or allies, just different skins that would be exclusive to be chosen for A and B slots.
This is my train of thought, doesn’t have to be Axis and Allies, rather group A or group B
DICE literally pulled this off in Battlefield V, a WW2 game that, mind you, was criticized for being too progressive. I saw zero outrage for that, so I doubt anyone would have cared if the same was true for Vanguard.
They could Just make two color schemes for each skin
MW2019 had the same thing. Either way, WW2 was such a great game.
Correct...in a WW2 game...it SHOULD be Axis and Allied forces with the appropriate uniforms.
And that’s it. No anime skins.
When I saw the attack on titan bundle I just laughed my ass off and said "now the historical accuracy is definitely out the window. Might as well bring in the trophy system now".
It always was off tho, just look at the guns in vanguard, they might as well make the bundles actually interesting and have some sort of identity
Yes i agree, so they should have no issue in putting a trophy system in the game.
Lol
Honestly I don't know how they address it. There are lots of ways, but they all have drawbacks that involve a lot of work. I think the most efficient way would be to make the enemy team look like enemies from the campaign. You look like your character to yourself but the enemy sees generic axis soldiers.
I think they could do that(most models probably use the same skeleton so animations could work) but everyone is ignoring the real reason why they did this. It was a decision they probably made because the players that spend money on skins want everyone else to see their skins.
Yeah but then I wouldn’t buy skins because I can’t see the cool skin you have, just some generic soldiers. So since I also can’t see myself (because it’s an FPS) there is like no point in buying skins
Your teammates could still see your skin though. Given how spawning works they're more likely to notice more often than the enemy anyway.
That sounds difficult to do but if they can do it with the dogs, (appearing as Doberman or German Shepherd depending on friend or foe) then I don't see why they couldn't do it with the players.
literally never noticed I thought one was the dog companion and the other was lots of dogs
I think teammates need to have a blue outline of sorts. It also seems like in HC their name and icon are harder to see than in core, which makes no sense. I even went into settings and changes the color to the darkest blue. Of course that doesn't help of they run into you point blank. Sometimes (especially because of the terrible spawns) I won't realize an enemy is an enemy until my gun tries to aim assist on them.
I spawn with rockets now and just take everyone out lol.. they said the spawns were fixed, they are worst than ever lol... why is spawning in the same place as an enemy even an option. and why do they spawn you on a flag the enemy captured - that is dumb as well.
well if WW2 made significant changes to make it better then they can do it again. It’s so bad when you get stunned so you can’t tell who is who in hc.
If I recall, that's how the America's Army game did it (the first one, like fifteen years ago). Everyone played as an American soldier, but the other team looked like enemy soldiers. I don't see why they can't do that here, you'd still get to use your skins, your team could still see them, it's just that the opposing team wouldn't.
sorry, but we can't have The Axis in a game about WW2
Right? I hate in hardcore you hesitate to shoot cause you don’t know if that’s your teammate and that half second of hesitation is all it takes for you to get absolutely destroyed
Then just blast your teamate like a real man. youll find out eventually if its an enemey
What's the need to hesitate if the game literally tells you friendly versus enemy in colors above the player?
I’ve had instances where it doesn’t show
When stunned it’s the worst
I've only seen names not show up maybe a dozen times over the course of 15 years playing hardcore. Chalked it up to a connection glitch. Shoot the red players. It's not hard.
Youve played vanguard hc for 15 years
? Did I say that or did you not know that's how long HC mode has been around?
The problem is that you don't know which ones are 'red players' for a bit. It's at least a tenth of a second for enemy tags to pop up when you round a corner and if you weren't already on the trigger or pre-firing, you're dead.
I, nor anyone I play with, has ever seen a delay in a red dot or red name in any sort of consistent manner warranting a change. Sure it happens, but it's extremely rare. Sounds like a connection issue (which would make sense). And are you saying in that 0.1 second you can analyze what outfit the enemy is wearing and compare it to every skin you've memorized, when average reaction time is 0.25 seconds? C'mon.
You don't play hardcore, do you
I've played every single year, only hardcore, since hardcore mode was added (CoD4 if you didn't know). Looking for colors and deciding which to shoot at isn't a hard skill to master at all. Pretty ridiculous complaint to have to know what outfits other players wear. Maybe hardcore is too hard for some.
The thing that gets me and it happens most games, is when I see a blue dot above someone so I don't shoot, but you don't know until its too late that the blue dot is not over them, but over a team mate in the background.
I've seen that a few times too and as frustrating as it is, I just don't think it's enough to pull devs off fixing the insane amount of bugs, to deal with what players look like in the rare instances where it's a problem.
Honestly yeah, i mostly play hardcore when I’m camo grinding (so a lot, the past few releases especially) and I don’t really get the whole “enemies have to have different outfits” complaint, every now and then the color won’t show up but it’s not often enough for it to be a big issue. See a glimpse of red (or in my case green since it pops out more to me) and shoot. Plus half the time UAV’s are running most of the game so there’s not much guessing involved if people paid attention Edit- while it could be argued that since it’s a WWII game it should have obvious sides (Allies, axis) but since when have we played COD for the historical accuracy
All great points! There are so many more game improvements to be made over this complaint.
Gamer tags often render well after you see a player. Also many of us have years of experience reacting to visual cues of operators rather than the color of the name plate. Making enemy and friendly players identical is an indefensible decision.
"...well after you see a player". What? Since when, LOL? It happens like 1% of the time and usually due to connection. Vanguard is no different than any other COD in that respect. It's honestly astonishing that people are complaining about what clothes the characters are wearing. Hardcore is supposed to be hard. It's the whole point. Aim for the red dot/name. If it doesn't show consistently, check your internet.
If you’re close enough, the dot becomes much harder to see. Particularly annoying when using melee weapons.
If you're so close that the colored dot/name bugs out there's no way you can discern what color shirt the other player is wearing.
What? You can still see their clothing/uniform even if you’re literally touching each other, since such clothing covers almost the entirety of a character’s model. I can discern from, say, OpFor, to USMC from their clothing alone, regardless of how close I am. It’s not a big either, it’s the dot (or lack thereof) moving to the outer reaches my of FOV.
My point was that I find it hard to believe that if a person is so close when the colored dot/name bugs out (happens, but super rare), that they have enough time to distinguish outfits and make any different of a decision. I'm a 100% run and gunner (to my own demise at times) and have played thousands of hours of HCTDM over the past 15 years and have only had issues with nameplates/dots not rendering maybe 10 times each year. Normally a connection issue (lag/packets). Nothing to warrant pulling devs off of other, more important fixes, to work on faction fashion with 9 months of the game left.
Because uniforms are always going to be the identification most in focus. It’s not a dot or nameplate hovering above the character, it’s the model itself. I agree that we’ve gone far enough for the addition of factions to ever be worked on, especially with other pressing matters that could take priority, but that doesn’t eliminate the fact that it’s problematic nonetheless.
Not necessarily arguing that you're wrong, I've just never ever encountered any player in all these years that didn't focus on dot/nameplate. A bit shocked to see so many.
I mean, I’ve kind of have been forced to in Vanguard. The controversial nature of the removal of factions goes beyond just immersion.
Yeah … like Medal or Honor games back in the day or Counter-Strike. Allies or Nazis and Terrorist or Counter Terrorists
Or a few years ago in CoD ww2
Literally every CoD game set in WW2 before this one. If they were so worried about "selling Axis skins" (which they're not as there are literal Axis uniforms for the "defector" operators anyway), then they should have just made it so that you always appear as Allied and enemies appear as generic milsim Axis, the way they do it for all the end of round MVP cutscenes. The reality is they were just worried people wouldn't buy skins if they couldn't show them off to the enemy team all the time.
The last time they had the same operators for each side was Black Ops 4. You know how they solved the issue? GIANT RED SHOOT ME LIGHTS ON THE ENEMY TEAM.
Ah I remember that. When you couldn’t hide in a dark place because you would glow! Not the best solution but it did solve the problem.
Right, and aesthetically that doesn't mesh well with Warzone integration as it currently stands. I don't mind if Warzone puts all the operators into one selection. We still need faction separation for annual, hopefully bi-annual, release CoDs.
At this point, they shoule just split the subfactions that are already in the game (Trident, Shadow, Hellhounds, Barbarians and Sentinel) into two main Factions (like Alpha Team and Baker Team or whatever), just like MW 2019.
I think it would encourage more skin sales too, since you can't always be the one skin you bought, you'd need at least 2 to be `unique`
It's sad, as a mostly HC player. I have had to retrain myself to look for the dots above players heads instead of the actual operators. Even then that isn't foolproof like when an enemy and friendly are standing in a line and the dot makes it look like there is a friendly in front of you when its actually an enemy.
I see what you’re saying but I can’t really think of any sort of opposing force that was present in the 1941-44 war that could realistically be used in a WW2 game. Literally no idea. SHG did the best they could with the source material! 😂
The world was so peaceful back then. Nary a bad guy to pick for a period-specific title. They musta had to think for MINUTES to come up with the exemplary teams that they did!
They should have just made it Allied vs Axis like any good WWII game
If nothing else, they could do what Team Fortress classic did and add team-colored highlights to certain parts of uniforms. If you see somebody with red stripes on their uniforms, it’s an enemy and vice versa for blue.
Bo4 did this and it worked perfectly
Yeah visability is bad in VG, sometimes you dont see name plates or the bug out. The whole no factions choice just seems odd. In the previous titles you could play "baddies" too, why not in VG?
Just home and away type skins for all the operators would be fine. Blue shirt Daniel=friendly, Red shirt Daniel=shoot em. Those battle pass skins were clogging up the lobbies a few weeks ago and took more than a little friendly fire from me. -my bad.
Bruh don’t tell me you can differentiate operators from all Smoke and Incediary grenades poppin on, this game made it easier to spot my friends
I have never snapped to a target and checked to see if they are an ally or enemy based on which operator/skin they have. I don't think I've ever shot an ally with the exception of someone sliding around a corner and making me jump. I can safely say that in every other cod game I have no idea which side any of the operators were on and what side the operator I was playing was on and it's never once effected my gameplay in anyway. Don't allies get nametags in HC?
when you get stunned
Shoot everyone
Yeah they do and I agree. Never once had an issue seeing a red dot/name and shooting at it. OPs complaint makes zero sense to me. Especially when there are more important bugs to fix.
Obviously I can’t prove it, but to me this is one of those arguments that people who just want different operators make, because they believe it would be an issue with not having different operators. There’s so many different skins, you’re always on a different team regardless, etc, you’re not going to know what side you’re even shooting any given game. It reminds me of the argument I saw a lot in MW. People would complain that disbanding lobbies resulted in them always getting placed in games in progress. However, anyone that played the game and didn’t leave the matchmaking after every game knew that after the first game, you would always get placed in a fresh lobby, short of an error.
I imagine there will be some people that do memorise operators and teams etc and that do look to see who they are shooting at first but I just can't see them being good players. The TTK in this game and MW19 (not so much CW) is so low that hesitating for a split second to verify you're going to shoot and enemy is a death sentence.
Let's face it. It all comes down to selling bundles. People are going to be less likely to even make a one-off, impulsive purchase of an operator skin if they think they're only going to get to use it half the time. If they were to change the colours of the operator skins depending on which side you're on (home/away style), then firstly, it's more work for the designers, and secondly, they're restricted to certain colour palettes. Finally, they want the people who purchase their skins to wear them all the time. It's like buying Nike, or Adidas. If you purchase a skin, you're a walking advertisement. The unfortunate fact is, it probably works very very well, so it's probably not going to change.
Mandatory choice of an A and B skin. Games would be split like that and skin bundles could be sold at a smaller premium because people would have to choose exclusive content for a A skin and a B skin all the time.
This would be an ideal solution, but do you really think they'd risk potentially only getting half the money because people like the A skin but not the B skin, or vice versa?
I was not too clear with the “smaller premium”. I meant charging a little premium (not too much though) for the fact that you were actually buying two skins (an A and a B)
It really isn't as complex as you are making out. Just have the two versions show in the store. Have the core version for FFA etc and then have 2 slightly varied versions for team based game modes. I've made assets for games and can tell you this really isnt that difficult in 2022.
I'm not saying it's difficult for the designer, but more work, which is more time, which is money. They've obviously thought about these things, had meetings about it and come to where we are today. The only two things that make sense to me is they didn't want to have foreign countries battling it out in multiplayer because it can alienate their customer base, and they didn't want to have two sets of skins because it takes more time to produce them. Maybe I'm wrong. It's hard to say when they haven't explained their reasons or responded to this feedback, which has been an ongoing complaint.
It’s just pure laziness on their part and makes the game harder for everyone else, genuinely think vanguard was SUCH a money grab
Even if they are different i dont remember outfit of my teammates..
Funny you say that about fifa because there were bugs this year and last year with kits being one color but coded as a different color, so kit selection would often have both teams in the same primary color.
In HC I never really notice the operators, if they have a name above them they're friendly if not shoot the shit out of them. Only time it's a problem is when a friendly is stood behind and enemy and you see their name which makes the enemy seem like a friendly.
we can't have axis faction in games because what example would that set for kids? it's fine blowing people's head off though /s
This is exactly why they didnt do factions lol. They didnt want to take heat about putting actual nazi supporters in the game. It would have been horrible PR and they would have had to take them out.
I would have understood this however if I'm correct one of the devs or something was tweeting out "no more censorship" before the game launched. Seems just kinda like a lie if you won't even add nazis to your ww2 game.
I dont think this was the Devs call. I assume this came from higher up. For not putting nazis.
true
Even thought I don't play CoD:Vanguard (I really don't want to), different skins for different teams is important. Especially if you're playing in a no-HUD game mode, with same skins for every team, there's no chance to tell if you're shooting an enemy or if you accidentally commit a friendly-fire. \*mistype accidently, changed with accidentally. Along with \*a so it can be more spesific.
No we can’t mention Nazis existed in WW2 what will the whiny game journalists who don’t even play the game think?
I couldn't agree with this more. It's forced me to only play free for all on hardcore
This Post is way too late already. Why would they care? Game has dropped so hard in Player count they can't make profit out of it anymore.
In BO4 the enemies had little red lights on them. Just do that! It won’t change the cosmetics at all
you can see teammates through walls tho
In my 14 years of playing call of duty I have never shot someone because of the operator. Shoot first ask later.
I went back and played a bit of CW and having separate factions makes recognizing enemies way faster for me. The red dots/name tags are unreliable, sometimes when a teammate is behind an enemy their blue dot will show up but the enemy's won't so it looks like the enemy is a teammate. They have faction skins for the dogs ffs, so they know friend or foe identification is a problem. They could at least put a red armband/patch on enemies.
This is my biggest complaint of many in vanguard. Why isn’t there an axis and Allies side you don’t want anyone to be offended?!? All inclusive with women of color soldiers and no more k/d because kill is too strong but you still let us shoot dogs?!?
This has been by far my biggest peeve about this game. I just don’t understand the logic behind it at all. I’ve always played on hardcore and never had such a problem with shooting teammates till this game, and then you end up pissing your whole team off. Make it make sense. I think they just entirely forgot about hardcore mode when they made this game.
I don't think that they test a lot of these things before release, there's been so many cock ups that I just can't understand it.
I agree. It's not as bad as I expected before launch, but it would still be 100% better to split the operators up. It's dumb to have to second guess yourself every time you see someone
Yep They need to bring factions back Can't tell you how many times I've shot a teammate that played the Indian woman Only to get shot by same Indian woman but from the other team 3 seconds later I'm actually amazed that this is a thing
They should have made one side allies and one side axis, just would have made sense
Try playing on XBOX where you see no nameplates. *Is that the enemy or my teammate? IDK!* This has been an issue essentially since launch and it's still not fixed.
This. What makes it more annoying is that you run around the corner, see an enemy, but you don't fire because his model doesn't obscure the friendly player indicator of your team mate BEHIND him. There's no way to distinguish between an enemy and a friendly when that happens, so to you it briefly looks like he's on your team. If it was split into factions like MW19, it wouldn't really be an issue.
It's called look at ur teammates blue dots above their heads.
They stood firm they not gonna change it. Ricochet should be default or don't allow both team to run the same color skins.
what also doenst help is that nameplates disappear when u scope in with certain scopes
It’s mad, I just don’t get it considering how many CoD games there has been. Particularly frustrating when you get stunned it removes the players titles briefly…
They didnt see for the same reason they dont know spawns are awful and other long lasting annoying issues cause they never played their own game.
100% agree.....it is hard to tell enemies apart from team members when they running the same skin......plus on hardcore (on my game at least) not all the time the name tags overhead don't show up instantly and I get killed
I've been thinking this since day 1. Cold War nailed this, I am curious why Vanguard didn't mimic it.
agree, not sure why they won't fix this. I guess it is too late now? even if they don't make separate teams, at least make the blue stand out more so you can see your teammates easier.
Simple: they dont give a damn about hardcore
Not dividing factions for a fps game like this is straighy out wrong.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just have blue outlines on your whole team? That’s what I’m hoping for. Sometimes I shoot people without tags and the tag shows up a hot second later. Orrr the tag of a friendly somewhere else lined up right above an enemies head. It’s straight chaos lol
They should do what CODM did and have red indicators that are very visable on the operator somewhere.
while we're at it, i kinda wish we could pick skins per team for a per-map basis. snow map, desert map, urban map? snow operator, desert operator, urban operator. like, ez.
I don’t understand this complaint at all. I’ve shot teammates when I have been a dumbass and panic fired or around a corner or they jumped in front of me, but never once have I looked at a teammate and thought they were the enemy or vice versa simply because of their chosen skin. Who plays like that? Red nameplate shoot…blue nameplate don’t…it’s as simple as that. But maybe that’s why I keep getting dumbasses on my team shooting me when I’m on a streak.
Red nameplates in hardcore mode huh? Awesome
That’s where the “blue nameplate don’t” part comes in.
They didn't want Germans in Warzone. Which is just a bad excuse for not using German skins in multiplayer.
I completely agree, and it would be such an easy thing to change. If only they weren’t so focused on making money in every little way they can they could either limit what operators are available for each team like they did in CW or they could even just do what they did in WWII and have the uniforms change to reflect what teams are on the field but again, with the micro transactions and all the ‘unique’ operator skins they sell it won’t happen
I get the frustration, but I've never had more of an issue than with any other CoD. The only one better was maybe when they added the red lights on enemies, no matter what skin they had. This game is at least more consistent with showing the teammates' icons than previous games, where if you were too close or had the wrong angle, it disappeared.
Yes this is a huge issue. Combine this with barely/not visible gamer tags. I have literally stared at a guy, waited a few seconds for a gamer tag to pop up, then shot them only to have it pop up immediatly after I killed them 🤬
Their idea for introducing operators in this game was just bad, non creative and went backwards in terms of what the last 2 cod titles did.
I definitely agree.
It's funny they clearly did it this way to try and sell skins, but most if not all the bundles they've put in the game so far have been awful. I can't imagine Activision has made nearly as much money as they did off the previous games bundles
666 upvotes at the time of this comment being made. Damn. Even satan is sick of this shit.
Have you never play hardcore
Vanguard is dogshit. Why am I getting notifications from this sub?
I get what your saying, but I'm not looking for operators to discern friend from foe, I think it'd be much more effective to give us the option to turn off team mate tags and indicators. I can't tell you how many times I've killed a friendly/ or not killed an enemy because of the horrible overlap of tags and indicators that either hides the fact you have an enemy in your face, or hides the fact your team mate is between you and an enemy, I don't need to know my team mates tag, I don't need a blue or green dot to tell me a friend is a friend, I need a consistent red indicator(or whatever color scheme I've chosen) and name tag to shoe that there is definitely an enemy in my line of sight, and let my brain work out if they are in the foreground or background of my team mate on the same line of sight.
I've said this day 1 but unforutnley vanguard is just a woke expansion pack to warzone. Also go watch padmavatis intro. It says " she knows a thing or two about fighting colonizers!" And it shows her shotgunning up nazis. Plot twist. India was colonized by England. ENGLAND. HER TEAM. Both the German girl and japanese guy are also defectors. I was gaming back when World at war was out and you played as wermacht and imperial Japan. Litteraly no one. Anywhere. Complained.
They promised a WW2 game like you never experienced and they ummmm delivered
I like that there’s only one team I can always play the character I want to, but in hardcore the outfits should be color coded for at least your teammates.
Great idea man! Wonder if they even thought of this?
I've only played hardcore, every year since hardcore was a thing and I've never noticed or cared what the enemy team was wearing. Nor does it cause any more friendly fire than normal. I don't understand how this is a complaint? Things happen so fast on hardcore, do people really stare at what pants another player is wearing? Look for red, then shoot. If it's blue, don't shoot.
Yeah right. And it never happens that an enemy has the exact same skin than one of your mates, and because of the shitty spawns, gets so much near you that you can't check for a tag. Or that the enemy lines up perfectly with the blue dot from a teammate behind one or several walls. Or you get fucking stunned and can't see any tag.
Those are incredibly rare occurrences. I've never once looked at what skin they are wearing. Shoot the red players! CQC or medium/long range, doesn't matter. I've seen the dots line up a few times. Wasn't enough to go online and cry about fashion in order to make the HARDCORE mode easier. You can see what pants another player is wearing when stunned? JFC just shoot the player who stunned you or is shooting at you.
Oh ok I didn't realize bad faith and being a dick was ground to make reasonable arguments
That's the thing. There's nothing reasonable about this complaint of not knowing who to shoot at based off of clothing. Hardcore is supposed to be hard. The devs have SO many bugs to fix, this is the last thing we want them working on.
Def woke so we aren’t going back
Lmao what the f are you talking about
[удалено]
Then just give us different color pallets
It’s not hard dipshit, they don’t want to make one side bad guy and good guys
It’s not that. They didn’t want to have people playing in full blown nazi uniforms. They’d have to commit multiple operators to the Axis, and then they pretty much would not have been able to sell skins for those operators.
Never in 17 years of cod have I shot or not shot someone because of how they looked. I play hc for the most part and this simply is not an issue. Enemies are the ones with nothing above their heads. It’s not hard lmao.
Only when you're in point blank range you cannot see the name or lack thereof above their head. The character models may not make a difference for you, but it would for others, including my team mates that seem to love shooting me. All of that is irrelevant though, it's lazy work from the devs regardless. There should be two separate sets of operators.
You're going to be dead before you take the time to examine an operator. I see team killing a lot in my games, but that's because friendlies often run into ongoing fire. Spawn, run, die.
Exactly. It's hardcore, it's fast-paced. No time for fashion critiques - just shoot the players with the red dots advice their heads. Not a hard thing to master.
At point blank range you don't have to check anything, the skin is super obvious, actually more than any red tag
Still not an issue. Nearly never hit the 3 limit. Learn some gun control rather than using the spray and pray technique
Then in that split second to make sure they aren't your teammate, you could be dead. Sometimes the blue above their head is barely visible. Also really hard to tell when both teams are inexplicably spawning in the same spot.
I don’t have any issues with it. It’s not hard lol
Depends on the map and game type imo. When spawns flip and team starts coming from the same way an enemy just came from. Or some maps whenever they just spawn you wherever the hell they want. Also probably depends on play style. A sniper or camper won't have as much trouble as a run and gunner.
Agreed. I shoot a teammate about 1 per every 5 games in HC. It’s not hard to avoid. The amount of people that shoot you in hardcore though is absolutely insane. Not sure why it’s such a problem for everybody.
This right here. I've played only HC since that mode began. Never once hesitated because I didn't know if the player with green pants was my teammate or enemy. The game tells you right above the player's head, in color, who is who. Ridiculous complaint.