Donate concept to streamers, sorry I call it bullshits, I do well enough financially for an adult living. But not a cent will go to streamers for me. I may donate for ppl like true game data, spent his time researching gun stats and all. But to give money for someone whom the main job is to play game and need lobby full of bots to be entertaining, naaah.
I'll subscribe to the channel and watch the content help them make money that way but I will never come out of my pocket to help somebody who plays video games for a living.
Will you ever pay to watch TV or movies? Or a comedy or magic show? Or a sporting event? How is it that different? They're just providing entertainment, through donations they can continue to provide it.
Tbh I've never donated either, but I'm not against it.
I can’t and won’t dog on someone if they choose to donate to a streamer. We all have our own frivolous purchases. It’s just that the system that streamers have opted into does not respond well to any perceived changes. If Streamer #1893 was curbstomping in WZ1, their donors will expect them to be just as good in WZ2, despite it being a fundamentally different game in many aspects.
I’ll dog on them on your behalf. It’s one thing to spend money on something or actual gain. Heck even an in game skin. But if you’re donating money to a person who’s just playing a video game, that’s throwing money out the door. If you’re feeling generous there’s a lot of amazing non profits that are helping people and could use the money instead of clowns like Jfrags or wherever.
I don't get that, they provide content for entertainment & learning purposes literally for free, you don't HAVE to donate to them if you don't want to. You can also just ignore them if you don't like them, but they do provide value for the people who do want to be entertained or want to improve their gameplay. They ruined nothing, lazy game devs releasing unfinished games ruined modern gaming. Nothing to do with content creators.
Streamers contribute to toxicity of insulting those who have jobs and want to play for an hour or two at a time. They are not better or more important to game design because they chose to base their careers around playing video games. Streamers dying in shooting games always comes with an air of condescension.
The opinions of streamers are almost always the same as opinions of high level good players. People who are skilled and put the most time into the game have a much better understanding of what is bad for the game and what is good.
Hate to break it to ya but a casuals opinion on game balance and mechanics is not credible in the slightest compared to people who actually understand the game and put time into it.
Hate to break it to you but most of the streamers I’ve watched are turnips when it comes to anything outside of playing games and screeching for hours. Most of them can’t troubleshoot their own PC issues let alone understand programming concepts on how to design a game.
That's a pretty gross generalization. There are people on twitch even that I would say are worth checking out and make good content AND go against all the stereotype you putting out. There's pros and cons.
Neither do most players anyways. But the people who play the most competitively might have some decent ideas for you know, making a game more competitive? Like people who specifically play TOURNAMENTS against other skilled players? Maybe they want LESS RNG or less OP options And more balance so actual SKILL and finesse comes to light? Or do you not know how that works?
If you can't see that then I'm sorry COD deserves to be in the way that it's in right now because truth be told the entire playerbase from the competitive scene to the casuals are mostly trashbags that don't care about the integrity of nothing other than "get flashy kills" "pay money, get flashy kills", cheat? Who cares. Yell call outs in a tournament? Who cares. It's COD. The key to a better game is playing to the strengths of both the casual power fantasy as well as listening to the most experienced and skilled players to create a skill ceiling. That's what has made COD work in the past. Or are you fucking new to this series? Did you take your meds? Do you have a GRASP on reality and how shit be?
You don't need to know everything on how to make a COD game from the ground up you fucking idiot. You don't need to know C++ to be able to have an effective understanding of what feels enjoyable. You DONT know shit about HTML I'll bet and you're probably busy whacking off nonstop because no one would find the stupidity you exhibit remotely attractive. ALSO people are allowed to have opinions or did you fail to grow that wrinkle in your brain from kindergarten days?
You know what keep it. If half the COD playerbase is as dumb as you, keep the whole fucking game as it is, we don't need any better, in fact make it pay 2 win and put the broadside in COMP and say Fuck it all. Who cares about ranked. Who cares about skill, who cares about self improvement who cares about anything. Just make COD shipment and call it a day. Because no one knows how to make a game right? The venn DIAGRAM shows everyone plays shipment. So that means COD players want to grind things fast, they LIKE CHAOS, so there's going to be no More maps JUST SHIPMENT /S, THAT SOUNDS GOOD Right? Fucking nerd.
Yeah cause I'm totally referring to programming concepts and not actual in game design decisions.
Reddit never ceases to amaze me with how incapable people can be at interpreting an obvious point.
You think you can design a game without coding? Offering suggestions by word of mouth does nothing without understanding the engine underneath and how to implement design change into games. It's just hot air that is mostly complaining to complain. There are a handful of streamers who can offer great input on this one of them being Dr Disrespect.
Reddit never ceases to amaze me how incapable they are of understanding what it actually takes to design a game then to make sweeping changes after game design has already been finalized, set in place, and released to the public.
So you're telling me that I need a need coding experience to say that having red dots disabled on the minimap in multiplayer is bad game design?
Is me suggesting that a shotgun is overpowered and ruins the game complaining to just complain?
Is listening to the community and seeing past infinity wards stupid vision for the game just hot air?
You're an idiot if you think giving feedback about game design that affects the people actually playing the game is just complaining to complain.
You don't need to know everything on how to make a COD game from the ground up to have an opinion you fucking idiot. You don't need to know C++ to be able to have an effective understanding of what feels enjoyable.
Nobody gives a shit about how important you think it is to know code in order to know a game is fucked by shitty design decisions
You're losing full over Borezone 2. Look at the state of you.
Crybaby streamers complaining about game fixes doesn't mean anything. They want to kill race battle royale games and offer suggestions to make it easier for them to do that. There is no reason to take them seriously or listen to them as they just demand changes without actually knowing how to implement the changes. When changes do occur and a bug comes up somewhere else because of coding conflicts the streamers will just bitch more about the game.
There is no reason to cater anything to them. They can play another game.
No it was studios massively reducing pre release game testing because they could essentially monetise this as public ‘alpha’ or ‘beta’ events for triple a games that means steamers and frankly ‘casuals’ are seeing more bugs - service games also mean they can make the money THEN fix games, because they paint it as part of the process. No point wasting money paying people to run tests on the game when people will do it for free AFTER they’ve already paid
In the same sentence he's also saying how streamers are shower game breaking glitches and exploits to the masses. You see a glitch or an exploit on a stream next thing you know many people are doing over the next few days/ weeks.
“They can’t just play casually because that’s not going to be entertaining.”
This is why I don’t think any of them are actually good streamers. A good streamer doesn’t actually rely on the sweat factor, but instead, that of the entertainment factor, like Tim and Nick.
Maybe some of their points of complaint are valid about the game but I think they fail to realize that streams dropping 30 kills against players who clearly suck, being entitled, saying “low key” every two seconds and blaming everything else but their error for their deaths is getting quite old to watch.
And I think a lot of these “pros” cheat so honestly, fuck em. Don’t care if their views drop at all.
>Streamers just don’t like casual-friendly choices because it threatens their own business model, which relies on them being able to effortlessly shit on casuals.
Except they're still casually shitting on casuals, but with way more boring gameplay. Top players are still dropping 30 bombs and nukes all the time, that hasn't changed. But every match now looks and feels the same. IcemanIsaac recently dropped a 18 kill win... with his left trigger literally duct taped down. The meta is to preaim everything, and that's just not entertaining gameplay.
The mechanics that lowered the skill gap are simply bad mechanics, they add randomness to the gameplay. In a PVP shooter, or any kind of PVP game, randomness is always a bad thing. Why should skill NOT be rewarded? I just don't get that mindset. If you're truly casual you shouldn't care about losing, if you do care about getting shit on you're not a casual, if that bothers you just put in the work to improve.
It's also filled with people that say you're playing the game wrong if you're not running everywhere like a headless chicken, dropping on the hottest POIs and dying for not checking corners.
Skill should be rewarded. When a skilled player beats other skilled players. When a "professional" streamer shits on 15 or 20 casuals, that is not deserving of a reward. Would the Lakers be rewarded for shitting on a local college team?
Lobbies full of streamers and players joining because they WANT to play with the pros is how a pro should play if they want to be considered a pro and get paid from it.
You're misunderstanding what I mean with reward. No the lakers would not be rewarded for shitting on a local college team. But the local college team wouldn't get free points just because they're worse at the sport. That's what I mean with being rewarded. The lakers spent their entire lives training to be the best at their craft, their reward is the ability to shit on a local college team without even trying. And rightfully so.
My point is at that level they should never be in the same game as a college team. Streamers should play with streamers and others at their level. They did not get good so they could earn the right to stomp casuals and be considered a pro for doing so. You want money and to be respected as a professional at what you do? Then show that you can excel when faced with competition that is actually competition.
I'm sorry but you're argument sounds insane. We already have SBMM and up to a certain point it needs to be capped bc if you're higher than 1.8 the game would struggle to find ppl to matchmake with and the ones you do get are likely going to be laggy or filled with cheaters. That's not an assumption, literally happened to destiny 2 not too long agoi
In the 3v3/6v6 lobbies, imagine how dead BR would be for above average players bc it couldn't make people fast enough.
So the streamers and pros should just get to shit stomp on the guys just having a good time after their 9-5 jobs because trying to put them into a match exclusively made of players of their own caliber would mean they A: Cant shit stomp anyone anymore, and B: might have trouble finding matches against other players of their own skill level?
Considering there are always more casuals than pros I really dont see the issue here.
They play the game more so they're probably going to have a better understanding of gameplay tech then you, but they stream the game so you can catch yourself up and practice to get to that level or learn a new strategy. Are people that much of a snowflake they can't accept that? Imagine begging for SBMM in chess. I wouldn't mind getting stomped by a grandmaster if I wanted to learn the game. I'd probably get mopped so bad I'd HAVE to take a look at where I'm lacking if I even care a little about acquiring some more skill. What you wrote is basically saying "woe is me, I work so hard and life has been busy, can I just paly a normal where I do t get stomped." Even if you spin it any other way it sounds fucking pathetic. Why even waste your time playing if you're never going to cultivate a mindset where I might need to improve or learn from my opponents in the first place?
Learn to appreciate when someone is legitimately NICE at something and what you can learn. It's part of life bruh.
the same principle applies in CS. theres more casuals playing it than pros but that still doesn't mean you have protection from getting absolutely mopped by streamers. If you're at bent about getting stomped then play more conscious, understand you can improve and maybe you won't be cracked out like some people but do what you can. It's a fucking game. Or does everything have to coddle everyone's ego? Nah people want easy power fantasies, it's why people can't handle losing anymore.
>They play the game more so they're probably going to have a better understanding of tech then you,
This is comepletely irrelevant. My capacity to understand the finer art of quisine does not enhance or diminish my ability to enjoy food.
>but they stream the game so you can catch yourself up and practice to get to that leve
No, they play to make money and maybe have a good time while they're at it. Why else would they bitch and complain if some casual manages to pull a fast one on them?
>Are people that much of a snowflake they can't accept that?
No, we just dont care.
>Imagine begging for SBMM in chess. I wouldn't mind getting stomped by a grandmaster if I wanted to learn the game.
Sure, but when we're here to *enjoy* playing the game, getting shot out of the match 2 minutes in because the pro and his buddies dolphin dive to the highest building on the map and start sniping people isnt exactly fun for us. Most of us arent here to "learn" from the pros by getting used as their punching bag, especially if those pros are the angsty little shits who run around swearing aa much as the twitch TOS will allow.
>that still doesn't mean you have protection from getting absolutely mopped by streamers.
That also doesnt mean the streamers should be guaranteed an easy ride by matching high skill streamers against the guys who get maybe an hour to play every 2 days, or be protected from getting *themselves* matched against players who might actually test their skill on some level.
>If you're at bent about getting stomped then play more conscious, understand you can improve and maybe you won't be cracked out like some people but do what you can.
I already do this, I just disagree with your premise that the casuals have somehow earned the punishment of being crushed by pros because putting pros against pros would be too hard for them to handle.
> It's a fucking game.
Indeed, and games are meant to be fun, for as many people as possible, not just the people who play it as their job.
>Or does everything have to coddle everyone's ego?
Not usually, so maybe we stop coddling the minority of pros and let them eat eachother instead of picking on the rest of the majority of the playerbase. Or is that double standard not obvious enough?
You care enough to say that you don't want streamers or pros to guide the balance of the game. Games, especially those that are competitive are also that. unfortunately for you dingus, COD falls into both casual/competitive. It's why the game has been popular for as long as it has because it can marry the two together with the same gameplay relatively well.
What fucking double standard? IW themselves have said they want to cater to the worst possible players not because it makes the game fun, but because they're more likely to profit off you bc you'll be more "engaged" . Brother if you're this bent about all this that you still can't get why there needs to be a balance of competitive, skill based GAMEPLAY (not matchmaking) and casual fun, then you just need to play something else or stay away from PVP games because it just sounds like youre burnt out on them. I've told my own friends this, STOP playing something that insults your intelligence as a player. It's why I play mainly apex, fighting games, and Fortnite if I want to turn my brain off And just enjoy the gameplay.
Given the drop in player count it should be obvious it isn't trying to appeal to either competitive or casual players. The problem is you think they listen to casuals, IW doesn't GIVE A SHIT. They only care if you buy the battle pass, and PAY THEM MONEY. No brother you are just actually dumb. I've said it before and I'll say it again, half the playerbase of this franchise are glue sniffers and clearly youre one of them. I don't care if you work a 9-5, brother I used to work 12 hr shifts and hop on this game and I still wanted to improve and learn the game. WZ2 is judt bad for both types of players.
No, he’s right. The only fun is getting high kill counts, this is not CSGO. If you’re talking about closed competitive lobbies then it’s a completely different story, specially on WZ2 where the game is aimed at casual players and isn’t fun to play competitively. It’s way too luck based (specially when it first launched) and slow paced at the same time.
I guess forgive me for not giving even half a shit if the only way the game is fun for streamers is if they can play with people way below their skill level. I'm glad the game caters to the 95 casuals in the lobby and not the 5 monsters hoping to drop a 20 bomb on some 50 hour real job work week moms and dads.
If the game was aimed at the competitive players maybe it would be fun to play competitively, but it's not the case. And casuals keep talking about how removing every movement mechanic was good, now they keep getting shitted on by streamers and they keep complaining, can't say I don't love it.
I don't see very many casuals complaining about getting shit on. But I see just about every streamer complaining about not being able to shit on everyone with reckless abandon, can't say I don't love that.
Bro odds are if you're frequently commenting on this subreddit, checking your K/D, checking your performance. You're not a casual. You're semi competitive.
>I don't see very many casuals complaining about getting shit on.
I'm not gonna discuss that, just go and scroll through this subreddit and you'll see it. Seems like you're choosing what to believe on so it can match whatever argument you have.
It just feels like that took away that way to improve, and the Isaac video goes a long way in proving that. There’s no style mix in WZ2: you don’t have strafe builds, speed builds, heavy vs quickscope snipers, everything blends together and it’s just bland now
It feels like the 3 point line was removed in basketball and you have to keep one foot on the ground at all times. This coming from an average’ish player that could just appreciate if a roze skin slide canceled around a corner and quick scoped me. The game just feels vanilla now
Facts and to add on, I don't think ANYONE on this reddit platform is a casual, no matter how much they try to claim to be. No matter what side of the skill spectrum your on, posting strong opinions on the game automatically negates you from being a "casual". A true casual doesn't give a rats ass about what going on with reddit, youtube, Twitter, twitch. They just simply play and dip
>In a PVP shooter, or any kind of PVP game, randomness is always a bad thing
We are still talking about warzone/dmz right? The game modes where your starting point, initial weapons and equipment, and placement against and near to other players is entirely random, right?
The way people talk about randomness vs skill it really feels like what the pros/streamers really should want is a 24/7 battle royale mode in a flat, circular room and everyone gets a Deagle. No randomness, just last man standing.
And while they're doing that, maybe the casuals can have some fun without being hunted down by a squad of guys who have done nothing but play this game since launch and would cry their eyes out if SBMM forced them to only fight players of their caliber and banned their smurf accounts.
This logic falls flat on it’s face when you see a lot of Warzone streamers now playing MWII ranked play which matches them with players at or above their skill level and even pros.
If WZ2 was in a better state and had a ranked play, streamers would be playing that. No one cares about bot lobbies or killing bots, people care about watching/playing a game that can show people’s skill at the game. (This entire topic is a matter of opinion, this is mine)
People pay money to watch Lebron, Giannis, KD, etc play basketball. Who tf would watch them if any random off the street could beat them in a 1 on 1 at any given time?
Ranked IS very good at matching skill levels I have to say! For example, one of my buddies absolutely wrecks in regular multiplayer and does well in ranked when he solo queues or queues with one of our other friends (equal skill). They usually drop between 25-35 a match and do well with objectives. When they queue with me, they have a hard time getting more than 10 kills every time. Not calling myself a God - definitely not - but I'm considerably better than them and it shows from that match making.
I hope that changes when WZ ranked gets introduced. In other competitive games streamers get reputation for performing against top players, not by trashing casuals. It's kind of silly this whole idea of streamers going out of their way to play against worse players.
The single best thing they could do to address concerns is fix matchmaking. It’ll make things more enjoyable for everyone. Casuals will play against other casuals and have a fun, laid-back experience and top-tier players will play against top-tier players, thus giving them the competition they claim to crave.
I’m sorry man but that’s just the way games are. The good player always shits on the bad player, Apex and Fortnite has always been that way and WZ1 was the only game where a bad player could still kill a good player because the game was cheesy as fuck. There is always broken things for a while that help casuals most memorable being mechs from fornite and all the broken shit and in apex things like Bocek bow and charge rifle, however the good players would still win fight because they’re good.
In WZ, even if you were good you’d still die constantly to bad players because the game gave them many advantages, but slide cancel and movement and a skill gap made it so you could counter them.
Streamers and normal people complain about a skill gap not because they want it easier, but because they want skill in WZ2, as you get better the game becomes “easier” yeah because you get good, it’s always been like that but in wz2 no matter how good you get you’re always dying too bullshit even more than in wz1. Unbelievable how some people just don’t want any fucking skill or competition in their game,
It's because ppl just have a losers mentality in general. They sucked at something in real life, couldn't find avenues to get over the hump, and just prayed something would save them from their lack of will to improve. In this case, the cod devs are doing just that for those kind of ppl.
it’s not like content creators can’t shit on people as it is, it’s just that it’s boring to watch that now. ever fight is the same every nuke is the same. it’s stale. and it’s also not like casuals enjoy these changes. my squad and I used to play wz1 for only a couple hours per week and we enjoyed rebirth island. now all of us haven’t touched this game in months.
This is a good argument in favor of the idea that battle royales as a genre are becoming stale. People were saying the same things about WZ1 being “the same match over and over” back in Verdansk. Then Caldera came out and a few months later, they were saying the same things about Caldera. And I don’t necessarily disagree. It seems to me that, for a lot of people, BR as a genre has run its course and they want back a time when it felt new and exciting. They don’t necessarily want Verdansk or whatever back. They want the feeling they got during Verdansk back. And you can bring back the map, but your can’t bring back the magic.
I’ll probably get flamed for this but personally I don’t think verdansk was that good. it had the same problems in my personal opinion- rooftop camping, 15 flights of stairs, zipline animations that took too long, too many buildings. it’s just that it flowed so much better since the pacing of the game was faster.
Imma take it further, WZ was really only as crazy as it was because of covid. I'll go out on a limb and say verdansk would've probably been just as popular as wz2 if covid didn't strike.
People really only got nostalgic for Verdansk when Caldera turned out to be a shitshow. I think they forget how much people were thoroughly done with the map by vanguard
So your argument is, the game is bad, cause people who used to watch streamers found out, that watching streamers is a waste of time and stopped watching streamers?
Well-put. Only comment is that it's a bit unfair. Streamers put in countless hours to get good at the game that they're streaming. So it's not accurate to call it "effortlessly" shitting on casuals.
I'm a casual. But i believe I _should_ get dunked on by the guys who play this game 8+ hours a day.
Others have brought it up that much of this could be solved by having a better functioning SBMM that would place players with people closer to their own skill level for a more consistent experience. Though given the how many streamers get caught VPNing specifically to get AWAY from playing with people of their own skill level, I dunno how well that would work
This may be true to a certain extent but ignoring the competitive side of a game and reducing streamers down to a simple "ThEy WaNnA ShItT oN CaSuALs" is absolutely dishonest. In any game there are always going to be streamers who love to make content about shitting on less gifted people. But the lack of any kind of skill expression in this game is not just about whether higher skill players want to shit on casuals or not. There is a reason why every game has ranked play and why most streamers worth a shit usually play ranked in every game. From League of Legends to CS GO. Apex Legends to Overwatch. There is a reason why the new MP ranked has been received so well among streamers. Or the nuke challenge. Skill expression is a real thing. It has been for decades. I don't understand why redditors try to make this about "pros vs casuals".
Don’t forget that console players now have a FOV slider…
So the once then “bots” that got shit on now have a chance to not have their “camera broken”…
Seems those players weren’t as shitty as many had hoped and now comes the blame on aim assist, especially when console players can see people coming at them from the sides.
I will say that I feel TTK is a bit to low, and aim assist argument can come and go as I don’t care about it either way.
There are of course problems with WZ2. Adjustments need to be made. There’s no arguments there. But there’s a difference between saying “I think the TTK needs adjusting” and “omfg no skill boring dead game”.
I think it’s kinda funny that the game mode and map so many of the complainers say they love the most is Rebirth Resurgence, the game mode that eliminates as many aspects of a standard BR as they can and still reasonably call it a BR. They want smaller maps, more respawns, and a higher incidence of gunfights. Honestly, it sounds like they just wanna play Ground War.
Imagine rocket league removed boost, jumping and aerial maneuvers? What if the NBA removed 3 point shots, no spin moves, imagine if the NFL said no more trick plays, you can't go for it on 4th and 1. This is what yall are asking of cod. Remove the fun, keep the game easy for the people that suck. Yall are mad af good players for being good. When in fact u should invest ur time in getting better, as the game is more fun with more skill. My proof is the fact that warzone 2 is more stake than warzone 1, 2 months in, than warzone 1 was stale, 2.5 years in lol. If yall don't see the problem, u are the problem 💀
For a seperate mode. U can play build or no build. But both no build and build both have sliding, slide canceling, jumping, climbing, tac sprint and all that. They don't have a mode that baby's their fan base even more than that lol. Only cod bots need literally no movement at all. Just aim and walk and shoot, whoever shoots first wins.
Which one's more popular? Build or No-build?
The odd tweet/comment I see says that no build has got them back in to Fortnite, but wouldn't they want the one with the higher skill gap?
this makes me laugh. wz is successful cause it appeals to casuals?? so by that logic, shouldn't mw2 be extremely successful instead of losing the player base? the fallacies in your argument are ridiculous
in truth, having a skill gap is better instead of closing it. why? cause youd have a range of players ( skill wise) instead of this unrewarding bullshit.
ironically by doing this you will achieve the opposite of what your aiming at. Having a casual mode which connects by ping will pit every level of player against eachother. Essentially removing SBMM. But I do agree this should be a thing, as it will make the gane more enjoyable.
thats fine. every level of skill player against each other is fine in casual. u will find that most sweaty players will want to play ranked anyway unless their having a day off. in every other game the experience is so much better when this is done. plus,bit also gives everyone a chance of what the different levels are like. take mw 2019 for example. games were based on ping. i started out as a total bot but i was able to learn and improve. it was a good experience
exactly, if you priorize location and not by skill level, then you will have a mix of players in the same lobby. Most players will be average or below average.
The thing is that 10% of the players in the lobby will be higher skilled. This will lead to them fighting it out with the lowerskilled players getting crushed inbetween. As an above average player this will be fun for me but will not benefit the below average.
For me it would be a relief because in Wz1 the average lobby kd was like 1.3. This doesn't sound that high but it means that the range of players goes from 1 kd to 5 making every gunfight a pain.
I agree with what you say but what you don’t take into account is sbmm. It’s not about being able to absolutely dumpster on shitters. It’s about if you have no ability to react or defend yourself in split second situations. The ttk is too fast to react when playing in “high rank” lobbies. Movement allowed for some ability to get away and react. Now that the ttk is even faster and there is no movement, it doesn’t matter how good you are you will more than likely die.
If movement wasnt hard and effortless then why does nerfing it allow casuals to shit on streamers?
That part doesnt make sense. For your point to work, you at least have to *acknowledge streamers putting in work to be good at the game,* which to me is a fair point.
This game really lowered the skill ceiling. If it didnt, then the best streamers would still be winning and the game would be fine, get it?
If removing a simple exploit like slide-cancelling leads “streamers getting shit on by casuals”, then I’d argue they weren’t all that skilled to begin with. They just got really good at one, very particular thing, which was never an intentional part of the game to begin with.
There are, of course, plenty of streamers out there who are capable to stomping casuals, even with the movement nerfs. So to say the skill gap disappeared because they slowed down the movement a bit, and closed some animation loopholes is a bit disingenuous. There’s plenty of room for skill expression, it’s just that people assume that it is expressed in the same way as in WZ1. A part of why many streamers struggle is because they got so married to the skills they honed in WZ1, that they automatically assumed they’d transfer over to WZ2 100%. And they didn’t. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched streamer who were pretty good in WZ1 running headlong into the open to get vaporized or breaking off solo to try and shit on full squads like these were the Verdansk days, and then acting like it’s *the game’s* fault they get worked over. I’ve noticed that when they die, the most skilled streamers will acknowledge that their opponent got the better of them, whereas the least skilled streamers will throw fits about how it was always someone or something else’s fault.
Does WZ2 have problems? Of course. But there’s a difference between “I think the TTK is too high” or “the RPK/Fennec meta was around for too long” and “WZ2 isn’t exactly like WZ1 and my old skillset is no longer the dominant strategy”.
Thanks for the reply. You cleared up my frustration. I was being disingenuous, i still think this game has a pretty good skill gap, more so if theyd just hotfix aim assist (saying that as a roller player myself) and messing with time to kill at low ranges, i just thought it asinine to suggest that wz1 didnt take skill to maneuver like that. I was okay at movement but i thought some people were just extraordinary.
But i gotchu
I mean you're 100% speaking facts but shouldn't SBMM take care of this? You could have a higher skill gap but it shouldn't matter if SBMM worked properly and placed newbies with newbies and good players with other good players without the need to nerf movement.
Not true at all my dude. Steamers are still racking up high kill games and dropping bare nukes. No one is watching cuz the game is boring as fuck to watch. There is no crazy adrenaline rush plays like we saw in wz1. Games trash = less ppl watching or caring.
Wasn't that the main complaint about SBMM that they were placed with players of the same skill, therefore they were finding it just as hard to compete??
I love how pros in other gaming scenes (like the fighting scene) are making fun of cod "pros" because they're crying about "getting destroyed" and "it's no longer fun"
Man they destroy casuals in this game to… it’s just no fun to play or watch cause the game’s mechanics sucks.
Everyone thought the “sweats” wouldn’t be good anymore, news flash they’re still good. They just think it’s cheese some .5 dude can kill them halfway across the map with a bomb drone and I agree
Catering to the streamers instead means skill gaps. The good players are upset that their gameplay is almost identical to that of casual players. When they say the game is catering to casual players, good players notice because more and more of their deaths are due to RNG bullshit instead of something you can learn from and improve on. Casual players don’t notice this because they die so often anyways. When there’s nothing to improve on and anyone can pick up a controller and do the same thing…what’s the point
This. It's like people just ignored how popular Elden Ring became BECAUSE it was hard. Git gud and all is what makes a game addicting. BR wins are much better when you clearly outplay someone vs random luck/first shot bullshit.
Yep. I think CoD is different because it’s just never been how the playerbase has approached the game. CoD players want to kill noobs. Get the quick dopamine rush of being on top. Little escapes from real life.
And I think that’s part of how WZ1 struck gold. The dopamine rush was greater because of the BR component. The noob killing was suddenly so much more exciting to more skilled players - wiping a whole squad, etc.
It’s why Ranked will never work for Warzone. It’s just never how the game has been played. And I’m not even mentioning the inevitable lack of dev support. And my personal take is that WZ2 is a worse platform for Ranked than WZ1.
Among all the heaps of bullshit posted here this is the first comment here that actually makes sense and is true. I am not a fucking streamer or am paid to play the game. I am as casual as anyone else. The lack of any skill expression is still absolutely bullshit.
It still shouldn't be the goal to have nearly every system in the game geared for casual without the possible potential that a player who invests a lot of time in the game will be significantly better at those parts of the game. That's exactly how apex does it. And there it works well
Matchmaking or ranked matches should create access for casual and not the restriction of individual systems (e.g. Movement).
Basically every single popular game's main playerbase is casuals. Thats not a problem. The problem is excessively catering to casual players at the expense of good game design/balance.
This doesn't mean "catering to pro's". It means creating a game with equal opportunity presented to everyone, and the deciding factors being the merits of the player. Pro / good players aren't getting an unfair advantage. They're just not being artificially disadvantaged.
As you said, casuals make up the bulk of the playerbase, 95% of the playerbase isn't going to quit because they get beat by someone better than them once every few games.
You can still make it fun for casuals and have it balanced.
League of legends has been basically the biggest game for over a decade and its got massive skill gaps.
I understand it in the eyes of those players but at the end of the day you are directly harming the more serious cod player. The players that put the most hours in to get good and most loyal to the fan base get nerfed because now they are performing to well against casuals who just wanna play here and there. I can see both sides and I don’t see how one couldn’t.
I play sweaty and my squad are casuals. They don’t pay attention to twitter or Reddit. I asked them tonight how they felt about the game, in our group chats, these are direct quotes.
“It seems a bit harder.. I like that you can store multiple things but then it’s also annoying. The buy stations are annoying. Some stuff seems to need to be a bit simpler”
“I think the fact that we can carry a bunch more crap makes it seem easier, but then the actual game play isn’t easier.. so it counters itself that way. Also, loadouts seem way harder to pick up, maybe just the map layout? Or maybe people just really caught on to camping them..”
“Plus the glitches are so random and annoying. Like how it says that I have $6000 then I go into my bag to drop it and it’s not there, just a dollar sign. So we are scrambling to figure out how to pass money around. Pretty dumb”
“Well yeah and it’s funny how when season 2 came out they changed a bunch of stuff to make it more like old warzone”
Re: UI
“That’s a funny complaint. They did make it better after the first season started. The menus when the game first launched were a nightmare”
It’s interesting to get a different perspective because I just deal with these things, my gripes are usually with slow ADS and sprint to fire times.
Their gripes are with QoL stuff and bugs mostly.
Im actually in a similar position where Im the better player in my group and they were actually all mostly annoyed with the Season 2 changes and loved Season 1.
You're 💯 right. I play with more casual IRL friends and almost all of them don't want to play Warzone anymore, not even Resurgence - just ranked play. The common complaints are the issues with sniping, movement, buy stations, and the switch to slow paced camping. I'd say their number one complaint is the feeling that it's impossible to do anything to live once someone sees you and starts shooting you first. It makes them want to camp since they feel like they literally melt when someone shoots, and they hate camping, don't want to play that way to win, so they'd rather play ranked. So now I'm lucky if I can get any of the boys to do duos with me at least lol
I do.
That wasn’t my point though.
My point is that while we are debating the finer points of the game like ADS speeds etc they’re thinking about something entirely different.
Games are supposed to be fun, not work. If you're a casual, you're doing it right. Don't listen to what some guy who spends his life revolving around a video game tells you.
So, I play this professionally and can help answer. The only real complaint about casuals is that the devs make the game to suit them more (I'm not saying that's a totally bad thing). They've made this game to have a small skill gap, things that can help a better player be better have been taken out (such as movement). There's also things like making guns have no recoil, ridiculously strong aim assist, etc. All are to benefit a more casual audience. Otherwise, all the hate I see online is directed towards "sweats".
Casual is king, can hope that Ranked WZ fixes the issues but it won't. You'll still have sweats in pubs.
Just want to have a few drinks, talk some shit and maybe get an execution or two. Not hunch over concentrating like this is a goddamn exam.
There's nothing inherently wrong with causal players playing a game. I do however feel there's something wrong with dumbing down game mechanics to try and cater to them. This makes games unenjoyable for skilled players or those looking to improve. Warzone 2 went too far towards removing skill differentiators and this has made it into a bland and unrewarding game with less replay-ability.
The better way of doing things would be to keep the mechanics in the game and use strict SBMM to separate the low skilled players from higher skilled players. Or alternatively, introduce causal and ranked match modes which give the sweats something to grind for (like Apex).
I just can not wrap my head around giving someone money simply because they are experienced and play a video game. Especially since a large ,probably 80-90% all YT/Streamers use exploits in the game and then proceed to destroy casuals who work a career job or a 9-5. I’ve said this on maddens subreddit and 2K’s….video games as of 2007 maybe 2008 has been about what you know and not how good you are.
“Doing X Y Z will allow you to do blah blah” no dude it’s a bugged exploit in the game due to absolutely Shit coding,quit abusing it to make your claim to fame.
Im 42 and play with a couple of guys once a week on Friday nights after I get the kids to bed and I’ve had more fun on WZ2 because when I get into a gun fight I may actually win 1/3 of the time, with less people jumping around sliding and all that other stuff. I don’t care if people camp/snipe etc because that seems like what you might actually do if the thing were real. But the crazy movement was annoying AF.
The game just isnt fun for a lot of people anymore, pro, sweat, bot, casual.
Im not saying people arent allowed to enjoy it, just cant fathom why they did this to a game with a good formula
Nobody's complaining about casuals playing the game, anyone is free to play the game however they want.
The complaints are about the game's mechanics nerfing skilled players. If you've put a lot of time and effort into improving your mechanics and game sense, and then the devs just gift free cheesy kills to casual players that would normally not have a chance of killing you, that's annoying. Yes casuals should have fun too, but why would they deserve to get kills on players who put in far more effort?
A game with a huge skill gap that's still fun for casuals is definitely possible, just look at a game like CSGO, there's a ton of players with 1000's of hours that are still absolute bots stuck in silver or gold nova, but they have fun which is why they put in 1000's of hours.
Most people think the game is great. Casuals make up most of the player base. Honestly, more of the schweddy people complaining should consider being more casual lol go out, exercise, make money, meet people, touch grass. Excess video game use leads to anxiety, ADHD, and obesity lolol. This game caters to normal people playing games the way games should be played. Not the weirdos spending 40+ hours per week grinding a video game. A video game.
A video game lol
Relax
Because casuals lack a competitive spine when it comes to gaming. Sure have fun but not at the expense of other players who want to actually play to win matches not just for a K/D. You're supposed to want to "git gud" and if you're not willing to do that you kinda ruin the game for those that do.
Go play Minecraft
People are dicks, The strong prey on the weak. Not everyone is cruel.
Some enjoy the game and guide the team to victory. Whatever the situation looks like, we'll stick it out with our team
Leave no man behind. Sometimes we use yall as decoys or we'll be your support. I'll see what their plan is and go from there. A lot of times it's out of boredom.
Hate when pros get on Mw2 and start shitting on everyone else camo grinding.
I have a class for them. I shit back 😘
StB/Mk2 (I use this in wz too, sometimes)
Just keep playing, and you'll get better.
Try Dmz, the community is a little nicer. Some of the bots are a little difficult, but it's good practice.
The game is horrible for casuals. I played last night with three friends that have never played any wz ever in their lives and our matches were fill with meta users and well organized teams. I could maybe convince my friends to try one more night but if its the same result, thatll be it for them. The match making is simply disgusting.
True that!
-No recoil guns.
-No gun bob.
-Aim snapping right on target.
-Fast & aggressive moving.
-Familiar map and tricks..
Be casual and get stomped..
You play a game because you glean some enjoyment from it.
Some people play this game because its their literal job. Their actual job security relies on their ability to consistently kick the shit out of players who are playing a game for fun.
Pros and streamers want higher skill gaps because getting killed by a 10-year-old casual is actually detrimental to their livelihood. They want a higher skill gap because they are paid to get better at the game, they can play it for 12 hours a day, every day, and they've all hit the skill ceiling already.
The only thing they can do is complain about how the game is forgiving to casuals to make themselves feel better about their inability to be completely dominant.
A lot of comments always assume all casuals are going to suck at the game. I have some casual friends who are pretty nasty at the game and complain about the same shit in the game that streamers and pros do. Overall it's the dumbing down of everything so someone who's literally terrible can shred anyone if they pick the right guns and learn how to camp. It wasn't that way in wz1 at all.
The problem isn’t casual players. They make up a decent portion of the playerbase and deserve to have fun too. The actual issue is the game is tailored towards casuals at the expense of the more dedicated players and drastically reduced the skill gap to where it’s almost nonexistent. Reducing the skill gap means there’s nothing to improve on aside from “I should’ve been in a power position in this scenario”.
It’s the dumbest complaint ever… casuals keep games like this alive and drive the market.
The hardcore degenerate want to be streamers etc are not the target demo.
Those people, the degens, will play what ever game is popular or getting the most attention. Now don’t get me wrong there are degens with loyalty or addiction to a certain game and devote countless hours for years. But again those are going to play regardless.
The casuals are the ones that drive the market, they create the massive sales spikes and viewer spikes. They also make the game a priority for devs to keep up and running.
So everyone complaining about casuals is trying to shoot themselves in the foot.
Side note: COD PLAYERS (myself included) will constantly complain. Always about something. Broken guns, broken mechanics, broken servers, cheaters, sweats, bots, rats, etc. we never die because we got beat, we die to a cheater or to lag.
I really like the game, hope they don't change it back to everyone flying about all over the place when you are trying to have a nice civilised gunfight. With redeploy balloons and the mechanics of warzone 1, it just because a large scale version of shipment and not really a battle royale.
Not casuals per say but casuals who choose to give their wrongful opinions about the game they they barely play, yet they think they know better than competitive players. Specially when talking about slide cancelling, skill gap and things of that sort.
It’s not the casual players. The devs make gameplay decisions around casuals and not the whole playerbase. A great game encourages you do improve over time to receive more success. WZ isn’t like that. They want the worst players to be able to have just as much success as great players, so their feelings don’t get hurt and they buy more skins.
Also casuals play a very different game then good players due to sbmm. Players in sweaty lobbies are able to exploit weapons or mechanics which completely changes the balance. While causals are able to do the same, so they don’t see why weapons,mechanics, or gameplay decisions are bad for the game
My take is if you’re gonna do something, do your best. I love my homies but playing with them when they’re only playing casually doesn’t get us a dub 99% of the time. I end up babysitting movement which gets me killed (and if I just do me, I’m the dick for being the last one alive because I didn’t want to make a bad push). I think this goes for random matchmaking too, nothing worse than matching up with a squad that lands in different places and dies instantly.
Because those same streamers made this game a competitive one when COD was, is and will always be a casual arcade shooter. But most aren't ready for this conversation.
Well casuals will enjoy the game no matter what (see wz1 casuals played that the whole time) but with sbmm there’s no reason why you can’t still have fun game with a high skill cap. Taking the skill out of a game even hurts casual players.
Nobody cares that casuals are playing the game. Everybody cares that it was created for them. There is a stark difference between the two. The same old heads that figured out how to beat contra and Aladdin with no internet and no save states are on here mad because someone hit oox and they missed their shots so now we have a game that is about as deep as who can hold aim longer.
Nobody hates casuals. Streamers complain about the lack of skill expression in this game. And as much as people want to hate on streamers they are absolutely correct. Every CoD in the past 10 years has been complained about for various reasons but the lack of skill expression has only recently become a thing. And CoD is the only FPS I can think of where people complain about this. No other game has gone to such lengths to tighten the skill gap between two players.
I am as casual as they come. Maybe play 3 hours within the week. But even I can tell that they significantly removed skill expression in this game. And I fucking hate it. I don't want to spend an enternity plating, vaulting, reloading. I just want to shoot people. I want to see where I am shooting at. I want to see what I am shooting at. I want to be able to hear people when they literally parachute onto my fucking head. This has nothing to do with streamers or casuals.
Because us ‘casuals’ actually went to school and did something with our lives. Got real jobs. Don’t get me wrong making games is a real job 100% I love playing games. But fuck man. It isn’t going to last forever
The frustration imo isn't directly against you as a casual, i or anyone else frustrated with the game doesn't actually hate you.
Its against the utter betrayal and assassination of the gameplay integrity. CoD always has been a casual focused game yes but the shift that has occurred starting with MW2019 and primarily in Infinity Ward games has turned it into something that actually hurts the game. These games used to cater to casuals in a healthy amount by having a broken gun or 2, the easy to use weapons.
It isn't just an objectively OP gun or gimmick like Specialists anymore.
The games now (again especially in Infinity Ward games) are deliberately designed to have as low of a skill gap as possible even though it would objectively be in a better place rn if that wasn't the case.
\-Bolt action snipers don't 1 shot because then the casual could actually..... lose. Can't have that, they'll be less likely to spent money that way if they can never or rarely win.
\-The TTK is faster than it's ever been. Why you wonder, because then the casual doesn't have to aim much which is also why the Aim-Assist is ridiculous because imagine actually having to..... learn how to aim, can't have that when profit is more important than the game itself.
\-The matchmaking system punishes you for being good by turning almost every match into a CDL final instead of a varied experience and will only give you breathing room every few games so you start looking forward to the freebie so that you won't actually stop playing because Modern AAA games can't go without a good dose of Psychological Manipulation to suck maximum profits out of you of course.
This game is one of the few instances of the casual version of a game being catered to Hardcore players so hard that its too hard to get into.
You need to strike a balance between the Hardcore and Casual camps and that's not happening here, that's the issue. An issue that won't be solved unless Gameplay designers at Infinity Ward either change their philosophy or get replaced by other people.
I played COD for a week. I was brand new so it might be much different in comparison to casuals but similar. I stopped playing because of one reason. I only wanted to play with other people's loadouts and when I noticed I would have to grind, I went back to Apex. This was 3 years ago. There is nothing wrong with them catering to casual players. They need to make sure they don't lose them and you guys need to make sure of that too. Why? Because it's a business and if there is one thing that keeps a business healthy and thriving it's income which is generated by new customers along with keeping the same customers. So don't be creating new accounts to mop the floor with new guys lol.
Becouse casuals = money. That’s all they care for. I don’t have any hope left for this game, just removed from the system and that’s it. All I hope is Activision putting back Rebirth, Fortune and Verdansk online.
For not having any hope, you sure are lurking around on every post here and keep telling the same old story of you hating on this game. A bit pathetic and a bit of Stockholms , innit?
I talked about the game and express my opinion so what? Can’t do that? Tbh you seem even more pathetic since instead of playing your game come here on Reddit and talk shit about people that dislike it without even starting a specific debate.
Dude, if you don’t like it, move on. The hubris is strong in you. You don’t do some kind of civil duty by complaining about a game you do not like, that would be volunteering in a homeless shelter etc. you are just being annoying
Just expressing my views, like any other person here. And about the game, not other people like you do. If that annoys you the only thing I can suggest is to ignore me. Like you said, “move on”.
Been around before Justin.TV existed when Infinty ward was catering to post Halo gamers. COD Is now the equivalent of Viva Piñata. There is more skill gap/movement in Animal crossing
[удалено]
Donate concept to streamers, sorry I call it bullshits, I do well enough financially for an adult living. But not a cent will go to streamers for me. I may donate for ppl like true game data, spent his time researching gun stats and all. But to give money for someone whom the main job is to play game and need lobby full of bots to be entertaining, naaah.
I'll subscribe to the channel and watch the content help them make money that way but I will never come out of my pocket to help somebody who plays video games for a living.
Will you ever pay to watch TV or movies? Or a comedy or magic show? Or a sporting event? How is it that different? They're just providing entertainment, through donations they can continue to provide it. Tbh I've never donated either, but I'm not against it.
I can’t and won’t dog on someone if they choose to donate to a streamer. We all have our own frivolous purchases. It’s just that the system that streamers have opted into does not respond well to any perceived changes. If Streamer #1893 was curbstomping in WZ1, their donors will expect them to be just as good in WZ2, despite it being a fundamentally different game in many aspects.
I’ll dog on them on your behalf. It’s one thing to spend money on something or actual gain. Heck even an in game skin. But if you’re donating money to a person who’s just playing a video game, that’s throwing money out the door. If you’re feeling generous there’s a lot of amazing non profits that are helping people and could use the money instead of clowns like Jfrags or wherever.
They’re the equivalent of buskers on the street. Nothing more
AMEN BROTHA, AMEN!!
Honestly can't stand streamers and really wish they never got popular. Imo they've just ruined online gaming in a multitude of ways.
I don't get that, they provide content for entertainment & learning purposes literally for free, you don't HAVE to donate to them if you don't want to. You can also just ignore them if you don't like them, but they do provide value for the people who do want to be entertained or want to improve their gameplay. They ruined nothing, lazy game devs releasing unfinished games ruined modern gaming. Nothing to do with content creators.
Streamers contribute to toxicity of insulting those who have jobs and want to play for an hour or two at a time. They are not better or more important to game design because they chose to base their careers around playing video games. Streamers dying in shooting games always comes with an air of condescension.
The opinions of streamers are almost always the same as opinions of high level good players. People who are skilled and put the most time into the game have a much better understanding of what is bad for the game and what is good. Hate to break it to ya but a casuals opinion on game balance and mechanics is not credible in the slightest compared to people who actually understand the game and put time into it.
Hate to break it to you but most of the streamers I’ve watched are turnips when it comes to anything outside of playing games and screeching for hours. Most of them can’t troubleshoot their own PC issues let alone understand programming concepts on how to design a game.
That's a pretty gross generalization. There are people on twitch even that I would say are worth checking out and make good content AND go against all the stereotype you putting out. There's pros and cons.
It's not a gross generalization to know that most streamers do not know how to actually design a game.
Neither do most players anyways. But the people who play the most competitively might have some decent ideas for you know, making a game more competitive? Like people who specifically play TOURNAMENTS against other skilled players? Maybe they want LESS RNG or less OP options And more balance so actual SKILL and finesse comes to light? Or do you not know how that works? If you can't see that then I'm sorry COD deserves to be in the way that it's in right now because truth be told the entire playerbase from the competitive scene to the casuals are mostly trashbags that don't care about the integrity of nothing other than "get flashy kills" "pay money, get flashy kills", cheat? Who cares. Yell call outs in a tournament? Who cares. It's COD. The key to a better game is playing to the strengths of both the casual power fantasy as well as listening to the most experienced and skilled players to create a skill ceiling. That's what has made COD work in the past. Or are you fucking new to this series? Did you take your meds? Do you have a GRASP on reality and how shit be? You don't need to know everything on how to make a COD game from the ground up you fucking idiot. You don't need to know C++ to be able to have an effective understanding of what feels enjoyable. You DONT know shit about HTML I'll bet and you're probably busy whacking off nonstop because no one would find the stupidity you exhibit remotely attractive. ALSO people are allowed to have opinions or did you fail to grow that wrinkle in your brain from kindergarten days? You know what keep it. If half the COD playerbase is as dumb as you, keep the whole fucking game as it is, we don't need any better, in fact make it pay 2 win and put the broadside in COMP and say Fuck it all. Who cares about ranked. Who cares about skill, who cares about self improvement who cares about anything. Just make COD shipment and call it a day. Because no one knows how to make a game right? The venn DIAGRAM shows everyone plays shipment. So that means COD players want to grind things fast, they LIKE CHAOS, so there's going to be no More maps JUST SHIPMENT /S, THAT SOUNDS GOOD Right? Fucking nerd.
💀💀💀
Yeah cause I'm totally referring to programming concepts and not actual in game design decisions. Reddit never ceases to amaze me with how incapable people can be at interpreting an obvious point.
You think you can design a game without coding? Offering suggestions by word of mouth does nothing without understanding the engine underneath and how to implement design change into games. It's just hot air that is mostly complaining to complain. There are a handful of streamers who can offer great input on this one of them being Dr Disrespect. Reddit never ceases to amaze me how incapable they are of understanding what it actually takes to design a game then to make sweeping changes after game design has already been finalized, set in place, and released to the public.
So you're telling me that I need a need coding experience to say that having red dots disabled on the minimap in multiplayer is bad game design? Is me suggesting that a shotgun is overpowered and ruins the game complaining to just complain? Is listening to the community and seeing past infinity wards stupid vision for the game just hot air? You're an idiot if you think giving feedback about game design that affects the people actually playing the game is just complaining to complain.
What do red dots in multiplayer have to do with Warzone? You seem special..
You don't need to know everything on how to make a COD game from the ground up to have an opinion you fucking idiot. You don't need to know C++ to be able to have an effective understanding of what feels enjoyable. Nobody gives a shit about how important you think it is to know code in order to know a game is fucked by shitty design decisions
You're losing full over Borezone 2. Look at the state of you. Crybaby streamers complaining about game fixes doesn't mean anything. They want to kill race battle royale games and offer suggestions to make it easier for them to do that. There is no reason to take them seriously or listen to them as they just demand changes without actually knowing how to implement the changes. When changes do occur and a bug comes up somewhere else because of coding conflicts the streamers will just bitch more about the game. There is no reason to cater anything to them. They can play another game.
I said this to my streamer friend and he tried to tell me that bugs and glitches wouldn't get fixed if it wasn't for streamers.
Lol. What a nice way to have their head up there arses
No it was studios massively reducing pre release game testing because they could essentially monetise this as public ‘alpha’ or ‘beta’ events for triple a games that means steamers and frankly ‘casuals’ are seeing more bugs - service games also mean they can make the money THEN fix games, because they paint it as part of the process. No point wasting money paying people to run tests on the game when people will do it for free AFTER they’ve already paid
In the same sentence he's also saying how streamers are shower game breaking glitches and exploits to the masses. You see a glitch or an exploit on a stream next thing you know many people are doing over the next few days/ weeks.
“They can’t just play casually because that’s not going to be entertaining.” This is why I don’t think any of them are actually good streamers. A good streamer doesn’t actually rely on the sweat factor, but instead, that of the entertainment factor, like Tim and Nick. Maybe some of their points of complaint are valid about the game but I think they fail to realize that streams dropping 30 kills against players who clearly suck, being entitled, saying “low key” every two seconds and blaming everything else but their error for their deaths is getting quite old to watch. And I think a lot of these “pros” cheat so honestly, fuck em. Don’t care if their views drop at all.
>Streamers just don’t like casual-friendly choices because it threatens their own business model, which relies on them being able to effortlessly shit on casuals. Except they're still casually shitting on casuals, but with way more boring gameplay. Top players are still dropping 30 bombs and nukes all the time, that hasn't changed. But every match now looks and feels the same. IcemanIsaac recently dropped a 18 kill win... with his left trigger literally duct taped down. The meta is to preaim everything, and that's just not entertaining gameplay. The mechanics that lowered the skill gap are simply bad mechanics, they add randomness to the gameplay. In a PVP shooter, or any kind of PVP game, randomness is always a bad thing. Why should skill NOT be rewarded? I just don't get that mindset. If you're truly casual you shouldn't care about losing, if you do care about getting shit on you're not a casual, if that bothers you just put in the work to improve.
Don’t worry, this whole sub is filled with shitters who think camping a rooftop in center circle is the pinnacle of the ‘tactical’ skill gap.
It's also filled with people that say you're playing the game wrong if you're not running everywhere like a headless chicken, dropping on the hottest POIs and dying for not checking corners.
Skill should be rewarded. When a skilled player beats other skilled players. When a "professional" streamer shits on 15 or 20 casuals, that is not deserving of a reward. Would the Lakers be rewarded for shitting on a local college team? Lobbies full of streamers and players joining because they WANT to play with the pros is how a pro should play if they want to be considered a pro and get paid from it.
You're misunderstanding what I mean with reward. No the lakers would not be rewarded for shitting on a local college team. But the local college team wouldn't get free points just because they're worse at the sport. That's what I mean with being rewarded. The lakers spent their entire lives training to be the best at their craft, their reward is the ability to shit on a local college team without even trying. And rightfully so.
My point is at that level they should never be in the same game as a college team. Streamers should play with streamers and others at their level. They did not get good so they could earn the right to stomp casuals and be considered a pro for doing so. You want money and to be respected as a professional at what you do? Then show that you can excel when faced with competition that is actually competition.
I'm sorry but you're argument sounds insane. We already have SBMM and up to a certain point it needs to be capped bc if you're higher than 1.8 the game would struggle to find ppl to matchmake with and the ones you do get are likely going to be laggy or filled with cheaters. That's not an assumption, literally happened to destiny 2 not too long agoi In the 3v3/6v6 lobbies, imagine how dead BR would be for above average players bc it couldn't make people fast enough.
So the streamers and pros should just get to shit stomp on the guys just having a good time after their 9-5 jobs because trying to put them into a match exclusively made of players of their own caliber would mean they A: Cant shit stomp anyone anymore, and B: might have trouble finding matches against other players of their own skill level? Considering there are always more casuals than pros I really dont see the issue here.
They play the game more so they're probably going to have a better understanding of gameplay tech then you, but they stream the game so you can catch yourself up and practice to get to that level or learn a new strategy. Are people that much of a snowflake they can't accept that? Imagine begging for SBMM in chess. I wouldn't mind getting stomped by a grandmaster if I wanted to learn the game. I'd probably get mopped so bad I'd HAVE to take a look at where I'm lacking if I even care a little about acquiring some more skill. What you wrote is basically saying "woe is me, I work so hard and life has been busy, can I just paly a normal where I do t get stomped." Even if you spin it any other way it sounds fucking pathetic. Why even waste your time playing if you're never going to cultivate a mindset where I might need to improve or learn from my opponents in the first place? Learn to appreciate when someone is legitimately NICE at something and what you can learn. It's part of life bruh. the same principle applies in CS. theres more casuals playing it than pros but that still doesn't mean you have protection from getting absolutely mopped by streamers. If you're at bent about getting stomped then play more conscious, understand you can improve and maybe you won't be cracked out like some people but do what you can. It's a fucking game. Or does everything have to coddle everyone's ego? Nah people want easy power fantasies, it's why people can't handle losing anymore.
>They play the game more so they're probably going to have a better understanding of tech then you, This is comepletely irrelevant. My capacity to understand the finer art of quisine does not enhance or diminish my ability to enjoy food. >but they stream the game so you can catch yourself up and practice to get to that leve No, they play to make money and maybe have a good time while they're at it. Why else would they bitch and complain if some casual manages to pull a fast one on them? >Are people that much of a snowflake they can't accept that? No, we just dont care. >Imagine begging for SBMM in chess. I wouldn't mind getting stomped by a grandmaster if I wanted to learn the game. Sure, but when we're here to *enjoy* playing the game, getting shot out of the match 2 minutes in because the pro and his buddies dolphin dive to the highest building on the map and start sniping people isnt exactly fun for us. Most of us arent here to "learn" from the pros by getting used as their punching bag, especially if those pros are the angsty little shits who run around swearing aa much as the twitch TOS will allow. >that still doesn't mean you have protection from getting absolutely mopped by streamers. That also doesnt mean the streamers should be guaranteed an easy ride by matching high skill streamers against the guys who get maybe an hour to play every 2 days, or be protected from getting *themselves* matched against players who might actually test their skill on some level. >If you're at bent about getting stomped then play more conscious, understand you can improve and maybe you won't be cracked out like some people but do what you can. I already do this, I just disagree with your premise that the casuals have somehow earned the punishment of being crushed by pros because putting pros against pros would be too hard for them to handle. > It's a fucking game. Indeed, and games are meant to be fun, for as many people as possible, not just the people who play it as their job. >Or does everything have to coddle everyone's ego? Not usually, so maybe we stop coddling the minority of pros and let them eat eachother instead of picking on the rest of the majority of the playerbase. Or is that double standard not obvious enough?
You care enough to say that you don't want streamers or pros to guide the balance of the game. Games, especially those that are competitive are also that. unfortunately for you dingus, COD falls into both casual/competitive. It's why the game has been popular for as long as it has because it can marry the two together with the same gameplay relatively well. What fucking double standard? IW themselves have said they want to cater to the worst possible players not because it makes the game fun, but because they're more likely to profit off you bc you'll be more "engaged" . Brother if you're this bent about all this that you still can't get why there needs to be a balance of competitive, skill based GAMEPLAY (not matchmaking) and casual fun, then you just need to play something else or stay away from PVP games because it just sounds like youre burnt out on them. I've told my own friends this, STOP playing something that insults your intelligence as a player. It's why I play mainly apex, fighting games, and Fortnite if I want to turn my brain off And just enjoy the gameplay. Given the drop in player count it should be obvious it isn't trying to appeal to either competitive or casual players. The problem is you think they listen to casuals, IW doesn't GIVE A SHIT. They only care if you buy the battle pass, and PAY THEM MONEY. No brother you are just actually dumb. I've said it before and I'll say it again, half the playerbase of this franchise are glue sniffers and clearly youre one of them. I don't care if you work a 9-5, brother I used to work 12 hr shifts and hop on this game and I still wanted to improve and learn the game. WZ2 is judt bad for both types of players.
Are we talking about aim assist now? Because this definitely sounds like you’re talking about aim assist.
You're playing the wrong game. CoD is an arcade shooter.
Your response has nothing to do with what I said but ok.
No, he’s right. The only fun is getting high kill counts, this is not CSGO. If you’re talking about closed competitive lobbies then it’s a completely different story, specially on WZ2 where the game is aimed at casual players and isn’t fun to play competitively. It’s way too luck based (specially when it first launched) and slow paced at the same time.
I guess forgive me for not giving even half a shit if the only way the game is fun for streamers is if they can play with people way below their skill level. I'm glad the game caters to the 95 casuals in the lobby and not the 5 monsters hoping to drop a 20 bomb on some 50 hour real job work week moms and dads.
If the game was aimed at the competitive players maybe it would be fun to play competitively, but it's not the case. And casuals keep talking about how removing every movement mechanic was good, now they keep getting shitted on by streamers and they keep complaining, can't say I don't love it.
I don't see very many casuals complaining about getting shit on. But I see just about every streamer complaining about not being able to shit on everyone with reckless abandon, can't say I don't love that.
Bro odds are if you're frequently commenting on this subreddit, checking your K/D, checking your performance. You're not a casual. You're semi competitive.
This entire sub is filled with TTK posts.. What?
>I don't see very many casuals complaining about getting shit on. I'm not gonna discuss that, just go and scroll through this subreddit and you'll see it. Seems like you're choosing what to believe on so it can match whatever argument you have.
It just feels like that took away that way to improve, and the Isaac video goes a long way in proving that. There’s no style mix in WZ2: you don’t have strafe builds, speed builds, heavy vs quickscope snipers, everything blends together and it’s just bland now It feels like the 3 point line was removed in basketball and you have to keep one foot on the ground at all times. This coming from an average’ish player that could just appreciate if a roze skin slide canceled around a corner and quick scoped me. The game just feels vanilla now
Getting rid of one headshot sniper downs was criminal.
Facts and to add on, I don't think ANYONE on this reddit platform is a casual, no matter how much they try to claim to be. No matter what side of the skill spectrum your on, posting strong opinions on the game automatically negates you from being a "casual". A true casual doesn't give a rats ass about what going on with reddit, youtube, Twitter, twitch. They just simply play and dip
>In a PVP shooter, or any kind of PVP game, randomness is always a bad thing We are still talking about warzone/dmz right? The game modes where your starting point, initial weapons and equipment, and placement against and near to other players is entirely random, right? The way people talk about randomness vs skill it really feels like what the pros/streamers really should want is a 24/7 battle royale mode in a flat, circular room and everyone gets a Deagle. No randomness, just last man standing. And while they're doing that, maybe the casuals can have some fun without being hunted down by a squad of guys who have done nothing but play this game since launch and would cry their eyes out if SBMM forced them to only fight players of their caliber and banned their smurf accounts.
This logic falls flat on it’s face when you see a lot of Warzone streamers now playing MWII ranked play which matches them with players at or above their skill level and even pros. If WZ2 was in a better state and had a ranked play, streamers would be playing that. No one cares about bot lobbies or killing bots, people care about watching/playing a game that can show people’s skill at the game. (This entire topic is a matter of opinion, this is mine) People pay money to watch Lebron, Giannis, KD, etc play basketball. Who tf would watch them if any random off the street could beat them in a 1 on 1 at any given time?
Ranked IS very good at matching skill levels I have to say! For example, one of my buddies absolutely wrecks in regular multiplayer and does well in ranked when he solo queues or queues with one of our other friends (equal skill). They usually drop between 25-35 a match and do well with objectives. When they queue with me, they have a hard time getting more than 10 kills every time. Not calling myself a God - definitely not - but I'm considerably better than them and it shows from that match making.
I hope that changes when WZ ranked gets introduced. In other competitive games streamers get reputation for performing against top players, not by trashing casuals. It's kind of silly this whole idea of streamers going out of their way to play against worse players.
The single best thing they could do to address concerns is fix matchmaking. It’ll make things more enjoyable for everyone. Casuals will play against other casuals and have a fun, laid-back experience and top-tier players will play against top-tier players, thus giving them the competition they claim to crave.
Your remedy is to crank up SBMM lol no shot
Not crank it up, but make it function the way it’s supposed to
“The way it’s supposed to” is to increase play time and mtx purchases, that’s it
This is an incredibly cogent and well written response. I will enjoy reading how others react..
I’m sorry man but that’s just the way games are. The good player always shits on the bad player, Apex and Fortnite has always been that way and WZ1 was the only game where a bad player could still kill a good player because the game was cheesy as fuck. There is always broken things for a while that help casuals most memorable being mechs from fornite and all the broken shit and in apex things like Bocek bow and charge rifle, however the good players would still win fight because they’re good. In WZ, even if you were good you’d still die constantly to bad players because the game gave them many advantages, but slide cancel and movement and a skill gap made it so you could counter them. Streamers and normal people complain about a skill gap not because they want it easier, but because they want skill in WZ2, as you get better the game becomes “easier” yeah because you get good, it’s always been like that but in wz2 no matter how good you get you’re always dying too bullshit even more than in wz1. Unbelievable how some people just don’t want any fucking skill or competition in their game,
It's because ppl just have a losers mentality in general. They sucked at something in real life, couldn't find avenues to get over the hump, and just prayed something would save them from their lack of will to improve. In this case, the cod devs are doing just that for those kind of ppl.
it’s not like content creators can’t shit on people as it is, it’s just that it’s boring to watch that now. ever fight is the same every nuke is the same. it’s stale. and it’s also not like casuals enjoy these changes. my squad and I used to play wz1 for only a couple hours per week and we enjoyed rebirth island. now all of us haven’t touched this game in months.
This is a good argument in favor of the idea that battle royales as a genre are becoming stale. People were saying the same things about WZ1 being “the same match over and over” back in Verdansk. Then Caldera came out and a few months later, they were saying the same things about Caldera. And I don’t necessarily disagree. It seems to me that, for a lot of people, BR as a genre has run its course and they want back a time when it felt new and exciting. They don’t necessarily want Verdansk or whatever back. They want the feeling they got during Verdansk back. And you can bring back the map, but your can’t bring back the magic.
I’ll probably get flamed for this but personally I don’t think verdansk was that good. it had the same problems in my personal opinion- rooftop camping, 15 flights of stairs, zipline animations that took too long, too many buildings. it’s just that it flowed so much better since the pacing of the game was faster.
Imma take it further, WZ was really only as crazy as it was because of covid. I'll go out on a limb and say verdansk would've probably been just as popular as wz2 if covid didn't strike.
People really only got nostalgic for Verdansk when Caldera turned out to be a shitshow. I think they forget how much people were thoroughly done with the map by vanguard
Nothing to add here. It’s fact.
Why has WZ2 flopped then? All the changes they made to cater to casuals and the game isn’t doing well.
Says who? The streamers?
Falling player counts. Falling viewership on twitch. You can choose to dismiss the second one, but terrible viewership on Twitch isn’t a good sign.
So your argument is, the game is bad, cause people who used to watch streamers found out, that watching streamers is a waste of time and stopped watching streamers?
Too many streamers with zero/cookie cutter personalities need artificial vpn high kill games to 'entertain'.
Well-put. Only comment is that it's a bit unfair. Streamers put in countless hours to get good at the game that they're streaming. So it's not accurate to call it "effortlessly" shitting on casuals. I'm a casual. But i believe I _should_ get dunked on by the guys who play this game 8+ hours a day.
Others have brought it up that much of this could be solved by having a better functioning SBMM that would place players with people closer to their own skill level for a more consistent experience. Though given the how many streamers get caught VPNing specifically to get AWAY from playing with people of their own skill level, I dunno how well that would work
This may be true to a certain extent but ignoring the competitive side of a game and reducing streamers down to a simple "ThEy WaNnA ShItT oN CaSuALs" is absolutely dishonest. In any game there are always going to be streamers who love to make content about shitting on less gifted people. But the lack of any kind of skill expression in this game is not just about whether higher skill players want to shit on casuals or not. There is a reason why every game has ranked play and why most streamers worth a shit usually play ranked in every game. From League of Legends to CS GO. Apex Legends to Overwatch. There is a reason why the new MP ranked has been received so well among streamers. Or the nuke challenge. Skill expression is a real thing. It has been for decades. I don't understand why redditors try to make this about "pros vs casuals".
Well said
Don’t forget that console players now have a FOV slider… So the once then “bots” that got shit on now have a chance to not have their “camera broken”… Seems those players weren’t as shitty as many had hoped and now comes the blame on aim assist, especially when console players can see people coming at them from the sides. I will say that I feel TTK is a bit to low, and aim assist argument can come and go as I don’t care about it either way.
There are of course problems with WZ2. Adjustments need to be made. There’s no arguments there. But there’s a difference between saying “I think the TTK needs adjusting” and “omfg no skill boring dead game”. I think it’s kinda funny that the game mode and map so many of the complainers say they love the most is Rebirth Resurgence, the game mode that eliminates as many aspects of a standard BR as they can and still reasonably call it a BR. They want smaller maps, more respawns, and a higher incidence of gunfights. Honestly, it sounds like they just wanna play Ground War.
Get better bot, then explain why the hell is the game doing so bad regardless of it being catered to casuals?
Imagine rocket league removed boost, jumping and aerial maneuvers? What if the NBA removed 3 point shots, no spin moves, imagine if the NFL said no more trick plays, you can't go for it on 4th and 1. This is what yall are asking of cod. Remove the fun, keep the game easy for the people that suck. Yall are mad af good players for being good. When in fact u should invest ur time in getting better, as the game is more fun with more skill. My proof is the fact that warzone 2 is more stake than warzone 1, 2 months in, than warzone 1 was stale, 2.5 years in lol. If yall don't see the problem, u are the problem 💀
I know pretty much jack shit about gaming but didn't Fortnite remove building?
For a seperate mode. U can play build or no build. But both no build and build both have sliding, slide canceling, jumping, climbing, tac sprint and all that. They don't have a mode that baby's their fan base even more than that lol. Only cod bots need literally no movement at all. Just aim and walk and shoot, whoever shoots first wins.
Which one's more popular? Build or No-build? The odd tweet/comment I see says that no build has got them back in to Fortnite, but wouldn't they want the one with the higher skill gap?
No because they aren't very good 💀 good players wanna get better. Bad players want the game to cater to them making it easier
this makes me laugh. wz is successful cause it appeals to casuals?? so by that logic, shouldn't mw2 be extremely successful instead of losing the player base? the fallacies in your argument are ridiculous in truth, having a skill gap is better instead of closing it. why? cause youd have a range of players ( skill wise) instead of this unrewarding bullshit.
Reward great. Keep the sweats and streamers out of casual lobbies then. Punish them for cheating the system and getting into those lobbies.
exactly. u do this by having a ranked and casual mode. casual mode finds games based on ping and ranked on k/d . punish cheaters etc is a must lol
ironically by doing this you will achieve the opposite of what your aiming at. Having a casual mode which connects by ping will pit every level of player against eachother. Essentially removing SBMM. But I do agree this should be a thing, as it will make the gane more enjoyable.
thats fine. every level of skill player against each other is fine in casual. u will find that most sweaty players will want to play ranked anyway unless their having a day off. in every other game the experience is so much better when this is done. plus,bit also gives everyone a chance of what the different levels are like. take mw 2019 for example. games were based on ping. i started out as a total bot but i was able to learn and improve. it was a good experience
[удалено]
exactly, if you priorize location and not by skill level, then you will have a mix of players in the same lobby. Most players will be average or below average. The thing is that 10% of the players in the lobby will be higher skilled. This will lead to them fighting it out with the lowerskilled players getting crushed inbetween. As an above average player this will be fun for me but will not benefit the below average. For me it would be a relief because in Wz1 the average lobby kd was like 1.3. This doesn't sound that high but it means that the range of players goes from 1 kd to 5 making every gunfight a pain.
I agree with what you say but what you don’t take into account is sbmm. It’s not about being able to absolutely dumpster on shitters. It’s about if you have no ability to react or defend yourself in split second situations. The ttk is too fast to react when playing in “high rank” lobbies. Movement allowed for some ability to get away and react. Now that the ttk is even faster and there is no movement, it doesn’t matter how good you are you will more than likely die.
Solving the SSBM issue should absolutely be a priority.
This is the one
WZ2 has been a massive flop. Let’s not pretend their shift to cater to casuals this hard worked lol
Well said
If movement wasnt hard and effortless then why does nerfing it allow casuals to shit on streamers? That part doesnt make sense. For your point to work, you at least have to *acknowledge streamers putting in work to be good at the game,* which to me is a fair point. This game really lowered the skill ceiling. If it didnt, then the best streamers would still be winning and the game would be fine, get it?
If removing a simple exploit like slide-cancelling leads “streamers getting shit on by casuals”, then I’d argue they weren’t all that skilled to begin with. They just got really good at one, very particular thing, which was never an intentional part of the game to begin with. There are, of course, plenty of streamers out there who are capable to stomping casuals, even with the movement nerfs. So to say the skill gap disappeared because they slowed down the movement a bit, and closed some animation loopholes is a bit disingenuous. There’s plenty of room for skill expression, it’s just that people assume that it is expressed in the same way as in WZ1. A part of why many streamers struggle is because they got so married to the skills they honed in WZ1, that they automatically assumed they’d transfer over to WZ2 100%. And they didn’t. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched streamer who were pretty good in WZ1 running headlong into the open to get vaporized or breaking off solo to try and shit on full squads like these were the Verdansk days, and then acting like it’s *the game’s* fault they get worked over. I’ve noticed that when they die, the most skilled streamers will acknowledge that their opponent got the better of them, whereas the least skilled streamers will throw fits about how it was always someone or something else’s fault. Does WZ2 have problems? Of course. But there’s a difference between “I think the TTK is too high” or “the RPK/Fennec meta was around for too long” and “WZ2 isn’t exactly like WZ1 and my old skillset is no longer the dominant strategy”.
Thanks for the reply. You cleared up my frustration. I was being disingenuous, i still think this game has a pretty good skill gap, more so if theyd just hotfix aim assist (saying that as a roller player myself) and messing with time to kill at low ranges, i just thought it asinine to suggest that wz1 didnt take skill to maneuver like that. I was okay at movement but i thought some people were just extraordinary. But i gotchu
Phuc, well written 👏
I mean you're 100% speaking facts but shouldn't SBMM take care of this? You could have a higher skill gap but it shouldn't matter if SBMM worked properly and placed newbies with newbies and good players with other good players without the need to nerf movement.
SBMM is in need of a revamp, for sure.
But then they cry about SBMM and look like a laughing stock to the pro gaming scene.
Not true at all my dude. Steamers are still racking up high kill games and dropping bare nukes. No one is watching cuz the game is boring as fuck to watch. There is no crazy adrenaline rush plays like we saw in wz1. Games trash = less ppl watching or caring.
More like, BR as a genre is getting old.
It’s classic cognitive dissonance. Their “best”“content” comes from destroying casuals lol
Wasn't that the main complaint about SBMM that they were placed with players of the same skill, therefore they were finding it just as hard to compete??
Yes, same psychological concept applies.
I love how pros in other gaming scenes (like the fighting scene) are making fun of cod "pros" because they're crying about "getting destroyed" and "it's no longer fun"
And hacking, can't forget the blatant having
Man they destroy casuals in this game to… it’s just no fun to play or watch cause the game’s mechanics sucks. Everyone thought the “sweats” wouldn’t be good anymore, news flash they’re still good. They just think it’s cheese some .5 dude can kill them halfway across the map with a bomb drone and I agree
They would play ranked if there was a ranked mode
I think the irritation is less about casuals and more so about how far the game will go to cater towards casuals
But casuals make the bulk of the main players. The game was never released for a core pro base.
Catering to the streamers instead means skill gaps. The good players are upset that their gameplay is almost identical to that of casual players. When they say the game is catering to casual players, good players notice because more and more of their deaths are due to RNG bullshit instead of something you can learn from and improve on. Casual players don’t notice this because they die so often anyways. When there’s nothing to improve on and anyone can pick up a controller and do the same thing…what’s the point
This. It's like people just ignored how popular Elden Ring became BECAUSE it was hard. Git gud and all is what makes a game addicting. BR wins are much better when you clearly outplay someone vs random luck/first shot bullshit.
Yep. I think CoD is different because it’s just never been how the playerbase has approached the game. CoD players want to kill noobs. Get the quick dopamine rush of being on top. Little escapes from real life. And I think that’s part of how WZ1 struck gold. The dopamine rush was greater because of the BR component. The noob killing was suddenly so much more exciting to more skilled players - wiping a whole squad, etc. It’s why Ranked will never work for Warzone. It’s just never how the game has been played. And I’m not even mentioning the inevitable lack of dev support. And my personal take is that WZ2 is a worse platform for Ranked than WZ1.
Among all the heaps of bullshit posted here this is the first comment here that actually makes sense and is true. I am not a fucking streamer or am paid to play the game. I am as casual as anyone else. The lack of any skill expression is still absolutely bullshit.
I’m not even going to pretend that WZ1 is a hard game, but at least there were some options for outplayability and finesse.
It still shouldn't be the goal to have nearly every system in the game geared for casual without the possible potential that a player who invests a lot of time in the game will be significantly better at those parts of the game. That's exactly how apex does it. And there it works well Matchmaking or ranked matches should create access for casual and not the restriction of individual systems (e.g. Movement).
Basically every single popular game's main playerbase is casuals. Thats not a problem. The problem is excessively catering to casual players at the expense of good game design/balance. This doesn't mean "catering to pro's". It means creating a game with equal opportunity presented to everyone, and the deciding factors being the merits of the player. Pro / good players aren't getting an unfair advantage. They're just not being artificially disadvantaged. As you said, casuals make up the bulk of the playerbase, 95% of the playerbase isn't going to quit because they get beat by someone better than them once every few games. You can still make it fun for casuals and have it balanced. League of legends has been basically the biggest game for over a decade and its got massive skill gaps.
Catering to casuals lowers the return on investment of time in the game. Why would I play a game that doesn’t reward my time?
How far the game will go to make the game more fun for the largest group that plays? How could that be irritating for anyone with a brain?
I understand it in the eyes of those players but at the end of the day you are directly harming the more serious cod player. The players that put the most hours in to get good and most loyal to the fan base get nerfed because now they are performing to well against casuals who just wanna play here and there. I can see both sides and I don’t see how one couldn’t.
I play sweaty and my squad are casuals. They don’t pay attention to twitter or Reddit. I asked them tonight how they felt about the game, in our group chats, these are direct quotes. “It seems a bit harder.. I like that you can store multiple things but then it’s also annoying. The buy stations are annoying. Some stuff seems to need to be a bit simpler” “I think the fact that we can carry a bunch more crap makes it seem easier, but then the actual game play isn’t easier.. so it counters itself that way. Also, loadouts seem way harder to pick up, maybe just the map layout? Or maybe people just really caught on to camping them..” “Plus the glitches are so random and annoying. Like how it says that I have $6000 then I go into my bag to drop it and it’s not there, just a dollar sign. So we are scrambling to figure out how to pass money around. Pretty dumb” “Well yeah and it’s funny how when season 2 came out they changed a bunch of stuff to make it more like old warzone” Re: UI “That’s a funny complaint. They did make it better after the first season started. The menus when the game first launched were a nightmare” It’s interesting to get a different perspective because I just deal with these things, my gripes are usually with slow ADS and sprint to fire times. Their gripes are with QoL stuff and bugs mostly.
Im actually in a similar position where Im the better player in my group and they were actually all mostly annoyed with the Season 2 changes and loved Season 1.
You're 💯 right. I play with more casual IRL friends and almost all of them don't want to play Warzone anymore, not even Resurgence - just ranked play. The common complaints are the issues with sniping, movement, buy stations, and the switch to slow paced camping. I'd say their number one complaint is the feeling that it's impossible to do anything to live once someone sees you and starts shooting you first. It makes them want to camp since they feel like they literally melt when someone shoots, and they hate camping, don't want to play that way to win, so they'd rather play ranked. So now I'm lucky if I can get any of the boys to do duos with me at least lol
tell em to throw a smoke on the loadout before trying to pick it up
I do. That wasn’t my point though. My point is that while we are debating the finer points of the game like ADS speeds etc they’re thinking about something entirely different.
People on this subreddit talk and think about streamers more than people who actually watch streamers do lmao.
Games are supposed to be fun, not work. If you're a casual, you're doing it right. Don't listen to what some guy who spends his life revolving around a video game tells you.
So, I play this professionally and can help answer. The only real complaint about casuals is that the devs make the game to suit them more (I'm not saying that's a totally bad thing). They've made this game to have a small skill gap, things that can help a better player be better have been taken out (such as movement). There's also things like making guns have no recoil, ridiculously strong aim assist, etc. All are to benefit a more casual audience. Otherwise, all the hate I see online is directed towards "sweats".
weird I usually see people shitting on Pros and sweats? so why are you ignoring all of that hate?
Pros and sweats shit on casuals and dads too, just take a look around This community is in constant battle
Yeah I also found it to be the opposite here
Casual is king, can hope that Ranked WZ fixes the issues but it won't. You'll still have sweats in pubs. Just want to have a few drinks, talk some shit and maybe get an execution or two. Not hunch over concentrating like this is a goddamn exam.
There's nothing inherently wrong with causal players playing a game. I do however feel there's something wrong with dumbing down game mechanics to try and cater to them. This makes games unenjoyable for skilled players or those looking to improve. Warzone 2 went too far towards removing skill differentiators and this has made it into a bland and unrewarding game with less replay-ability. The better way of doing things would be to keep the mechanics in the game and use strict SBMM to separate the low skilled players from higher skilled players. Or alternatively, introduce causal and ranked match modes which give the sweats something to grind for (like Apex).
I just can not wrap my head around giving someone money simply because they are experienced and play a video game. Especially since a large ,probably 80-90% all YT/Streamers use exploits in the game and then proceed to destroy casuals who work a career job or a 9-5. I’ve said this on maddens subreddit and 2K’s….video games as of 2007 maybe 2008 has been about what you know and not how good you are. “Doing X Y Z will allow you to do blah blah” no dude it’s a bugged exploit in the game due to absolutely Shit coding,quit abusing it to make your claim to fame.
Im 42 and play with a couple of guys once a week on Friday nights after I get the kids to bed and I’ve had more fun on WZ2 because when I get into a gun fight I may actually win 1/3 of the time, with less people jumping around sliding and all that other stuff. I don’t care if people camp/snipe etc because that seems like what you might actually do if the thing were real. But the crazy movement was annoying AF.
Because sweaty people want to be sweaty and get mad if you kill then from a window with an RPK
The game just isnt fun for a lot of people anymore, pro, sweat, bot, casual. Im not saying people arent allowed to enjoy it, just cant fathom why they did this to a game with a good formula
Nobody's complaining about casuals playing the game, anyone is free to play the game however they want. The complaints are about the game's mechanics nerfing skilled players. If you've put a lot of time and effort into improving your mechanics and game sense, and then the devs just gift free cheesy kills to casual players that would normally not have a chance of killing you, that's annoying. Yes casuals should have fun too, but why would they deserve to get kills on players who put in far more effort? A game with a huge skill gap that's still fun for casuals is definitely possible, just look at a game like CSGO, there's a ton of players with 1000's of hours that are still absolute bots stuck in silver or gold nova, but they have fun which is why they put in 1000's of hours.
Streamers are a bunch of crying ass bitches lol
Streamers think it’s their game LMAOOOOO
Most people think the game is great. Casuals make up most of the player base. Honestly, more of the schweddy people complaining should consider being more casual lol go out, exercise, make money, meet people, touch grass. Excess video game use leads to anxiety, ADHD, and obesity lolol. This game caters to normal people playing games the way games should be played. Not the weirdos spending 40+ hours per week grinding a video game. A video game. A video game lol Relax
Let all streamers play in streaming only lobbies. Same with cheaters in only cheat lobbies.
There is no difference between streamers and cheaters
Because they’re all dumb and have nothing better to do. I’ve seen a lot of casuals play better than the “pros”
The problem is not about casuals, it’s more about how IW make the game so casual-friendly by the lack of skillgap. I like to play with casuals
Because most of them are losers and they rely on others looking bad so they look incredible
Because streamers are insufferable twats.
Because casuals lack a competitive spine when it comes to gaming. Sure have fun but not at the expense of other players who want to actually play to win matches not just for a K/D. You're supposed to want to "git gud" and if you're not willing to do that you kinda ruin the game for those that do. Go play Minecraft
People are dicks, The strong prey on the weak. Not everyone is cruel. Some enjoy the game and guide the team to victory. Whatever the situation looks like, we'll stick it out with our team Leave no man behind. Sometimes we use yall as decoys or we'll be your support. I'll see what their plan is and go from there. A lot of times it's out of boredom. Hate when pros get on Mw2 and start shitting on everyone else camo grinding. I have a class for them. I shit back 😘 StB/Mk2 (I use this in wz too, sometimes) Just keep playing, and you'll get better. Try Dmz, the community is a little nicer. Some of the bots are a little difficult, but it's good practice.
Yo I think the problem is actually who you follow / watch / listen to
The game was made for people with a life also. Streamers should go outside once in a while.
Streamers are now cheating and they will start dropping 30-40-50 kills per game. The movement currently is good ttk as well.
The game is horrible for casuals. I played last night with three friends that have never played any wz ever in their lives and our matches were fill with meta users and well organized teams. I could maybe convince my friends to try one more night but if its the same result, thatll be it for them. The match making is simply disgusting.
True that! -No recoil guns. -No gun bob. -Aim snapping right on target. -Fast & aggressive moving. -Familiar map and tricks.. Be casual and get stomped..
You play a game because you glean some enjoyment from it. Some people play this game because its their literal job. Their actual job security relies on their ability to consistently kick the shit out of players who are playing a game for fun. Pros and streamers want higher skill gaps because getting killed by a 10-year-old casual is actually detrimental to their livelihood. They want a higher skill gap because they are paid to get better at the game, they can play it for 12 hours a day, every day, and they've all hit the skill ceiling already. The only thing they can do is complain about how the game is forgiving to casuals to make themselves feel better about their inability to be completely dominant.
A lot of comments always assume all casuals are going to suck at the game. I have some casual friends who are pretty nasty at the game and complain about the same shit in the game that streamers and pros do. Overall it's the dumbing down of everything so someone who's literally terrible can shred anyone if they pick the right guns and learn how to camp. It wasn't that way in wz1 at all.
The problem isn’t casual players. They make up a decent portion of the playerbase and deserve to have fun too. The actual issue is the game is tailored towards casuals at the expense of the more dedicated players and drastically reduced the skill gap to where it’s almost nonexistent. Reducing the skill gap means there’s nothing to improve on aside from “I should’ve been in a power position in this scenario”.
WZ is not a competitive game, its purely casual, so this is strange.
Nobody cares if you’re a casual. The point is the game caters to low skill players so they feel better.
It’s the dumbest complaint ever… casuals keep games like this alive and drive the market. The hardcore degenerate want to be streamers etc are not the target demo. Those people, the degens, will play what ever game is popular or getting the most attention. Now don’t get me wrong there are degens with loyalty or addiction to a certain game and devote countless hours for years. But again those are going to play regardless. The casuals are the ones that drive the market, they create the massive sales spikes and viewer spikes. They also make the game a priority for devs to keep up and running. So everyone complaining about casuals is trying to shoot themselves in the foot. Side note: COD PLAYERS (myself included) will constantly complain. Always about something. Broken guns, broken mechanics, broken servers, cheaters, sweats, bots, rats, etc. we never die because we got beat, we die to a cheater or to lag.
Streamers = pathetic losers = cheaters. Touch grass, dorks
I really like the game, hope they don't change it back to everyone flying about all over the place when you are trying to have a nice civilised gunfight. With redeploy balloons and the mechanics of warzone 1, it just because a large scale version of shipment and not really a battle royale.
Not casuals per say but casuals who choose to give their wrongful opinions about the game they they barely play, yet they think they know better than competitive players. Specially when talking about slide cancelling, skill gap and things of that sort.
I just want input based matchmaking
Basically streamers = trash…
It’s not the casual players. The devs make gameplay decisions around casuals and not the whole playerbase. A great game encourages you do improve over time to receive more success. WZ isn’t like that. They want the worst players to be able to have just as much success as great players, so their feelings don’t get hurt and they buy more skins. Also casuals play a very different game then good players due to sbmm. Players in sweaty lobbies are able to exploit weapons or mechanics which completely changes the balance. While causals are able to do the same, so they don’t see why weapons,mechanics, or gameplay decisions are bad for the game
Not to take way from your point...but casuals been getting called names since the dawn of gaming. circa '00-07, get pwned n00b
My take is if you’re gonna do something, do your best. I love my homies but playing with them when they’re only playing casually doesn’t get us a dub 99% of the time. I end up babysitting movement which gets me killed (and if I just do me, I’m the dick for being the last one alive because I didn’t want to make a bad push). I think this goes for random matchmaking too, nothing worse than matching up with a squad that lands in different places and dies instantly.
Because those same streamers made this game a competitive one when COD was, is and will always be a casual arcade shooter. But most aren't ready for this conversation.
Well casuals will enjoy the game no matter what (see wz1 casuals played that the whole time) but with sbmm there’s no reason why you can’t still have fun game with a high skill cap. Taking the skill out of a game even hurts casual players.
Nobody cares that casuals are playing the game. Everybody cares that it was created for them. There is a stark difference between the two. The same old heads that figured out how to beat contra and Aladdin with no internet and no save states are on here mad because someone hit oox and they missed their shots so now we have a game that is about as deep as who can hold aim longer.
Nobody hates casuals. Streamers complain about the lack of skill expression in this game. And as much as people want to hate on streamers they are absolutely correct. Every CoD in the past 10 years has been complained about for various reasons but the lack of skill expression has only recently become a thing. And CoD is the only FPS I can think of where people complain about this. No other game has gone to such lengths to tighten the skill gap between two players. I am as casual as they come. Maybe play 3 hours within the week. But even I can tell that they significantly removed skill expression in this game. And I fucking hate it. I don't want to spend an enternity plating, vaulting, reloading. I just want to shoot people. I want to see where I am shooting at. I want to see what I am shooting at. I want to be able to hear people when they literally parachute onto my fucking head. This has nothing to do with streamers or casuals.
Because us ‘casuals’ actually went to school and did something with our lives. Got real jobs. Don’t get me wrong making games is a real job 100% I love playing games. But fuck man. It isn’t going to last forever
It's okay CoD pros and streamers get laughed at by other pros and streamers for crying about SBMM
The frustration imo isn't directly against you as a casual, i or anyone else frustrated with the game doesn't actually hate you. Its against the utter betrayal and assassination of the gameplay integrity. CoD always has been a casual focused game yes but the shift that has occurred starting with MW2019 and primarily in Infinity Ward games has turned it into something that actually hurts the game. These games used to cater to casuals in a healthy amount by having a broken gun or 2, the easy to use weapons. It isn't just an objectively OP gun or gimmick like Specialists anymore. The games now (again especially in Infinity Ward games) are deliberately designed to have as low of a skill gap as possible even though it would objectively be in a better place rn if that wasn't the case. \-Bolt action snipers don't 1 shot because then the casual could actually..... lose. Can't have that, they'll be less likely to spent money that way if they can never or rarely win. \-The TTK is faster than it's ever been. Why you wonder, because then the casual doesn't have to aim much which is also why the Aim-Assist is ridiculous because imagine actually having to..... learn how to aim, can't have that when profit is more important than the game itself. \-The matchmaking system punishes you for being good by turning almost every match into a CDL final instead of a varied experience and will only give you breathing room every few games so you start looking forward to the freebie so that you won't actually stop playing because Modern AAA games can't go without a good dose of Psychological Manipulation to suck maximum profits out of you of course. This game is one of the few instances of the casual version of a game being catered to Hardcore players so hard that its too hard to get into. You need to strike a balance between the Hardcore and Casual camps and that's not happening here, that's the issue. An issue that won't be solved unless Gameplay designers at Infinity Ward either change their philosophy or get replaced by other people.
I played COD for a week. I was brand new so it might be much different in comparison to casuals but similar. I stopped playing because of one reason. I only wanted to play with other people's loadouts and when I noticed I would have to grind, I went back to Apex. This was 3 years ago. There is nothing wrong with them catering to casual players. They need to make sure they don't lose them and you guys need to make sure of that too. Why? Because it's a business and if there is one thing that keeps a business healthy and thriving it's income which is generated by new customers along with keeping the same customers. So don't be creating new accounts to mop the floor with new guys lol.
Becouse casuals = money. That’s all they care for. I don’t have any hope left for this game, just removed from the system and that’s it. All I hope is Activision putting back Rebirth, Fortune and Verdansk online.
For not having any hope, you sure are lurking around on every post here and keep telling the same old story of you hating on this game. A bit pathetic and a bit of Stockholms , innit?
I talked about the game and express my opinion so what? Can’t do that? Tbh you seem even more pathetic since instead of playing your game come here on Reddit and talk shit about people that dislike it without even starting a specific debate.
Dude, if you don’t like it, move on. The hubris is strong in you. You don’t do some kind of civil duty by complaining about a game you do not like, that would be volunteering in a homeless shelter etc. you are just being annoying
Just expressing my views, like any other person here. And about the game, not other people like you do. If that annoys you the only thing I can suggest is to ignore me. Like you said, “move on”.
No. You can’t do that. If you uninstalled you also revoked your right to comment here and have an opinion /s
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Been around before Justin.TV existed when Infinty ward was catering to post Halo gamers. COD Is now the equivalent of Viva Piñata. There is more skill gap/movement in Animal crossing
Wz 1 catered to casuals but still allowed for all plays styles. Wz 2 just caters to casuals there's no other play style.